Tom Sunic’s “Camp of the Holy Ghosts” raises a number of important issues. Should White advocates curry favor with Zionists in the hope of getting Jewish support for their aims? Sunic thinks not: “Such pathetic comments by the Vlaams Belang or the BNP, and by some American White advocates, won’t help their White constituents in the long run, nor will they appease their Jewish detractors.”
I suspect that is correct. The only reason the organized Jewish community would really get behind White advocacy in a quid pro quo for support of Zionism would be if White advocacy already had substantial power — which it does not. Jewish power and influence will be directed at supporting their own ethnostate of Israel and dispossessing Whites in the Diaspora for exactly as long as that strategy continues to work. If White activism makes headway, Jews will certainly attempt to participate in order to promote Jewish interests within that new environment.
If this is the case, then it certainly makes sense for at least some factions of White advocacy to continue to document and critique the role of Jewish power and influence in the dispossession of Whites, if only in the interest of historical accuracy. But I also think that Whites who understand Jewish influence are simply more aware of how things work and therefore less likely to succumb to Jewish ideologies like neoconservatism as a solution for White dispossession. For example, it horrifies me that even people like Glenn Beck — probably the most implicitly White mainstream conservative and regarded as an extremist by the ADL — is nevertheless solidly in favor of legal immigration:”I’m not a racist. [Illegal immigration] isn’t to be confused with legal immigration.”
Another important point in Sunic’s article is the contrast between Catholicism in Eastern and Western Europe:
The Catholic Church in Central and Eastern Europe is a projection of local White national identity and not so much the symbol of spiritual salvation. Catholic Poland, Slovakia, Croatia and Hungary take special pride in calling themselves “antemurale cristianitatis”, or “antimurale occidentis — i,e,, the “bulwark of Christianity” and the “rampart of the West” — first against Turkic Islamic invaders, then against godless communism. Seen in retrospect, communist repression in Eastern Europe strengthened the role of the Catholic Church and the White consciousness of its congregation. By contrast, in Western Europe the liberal system is now quickly turning the Catholic Church into a multiracial clearing house.
Catholicism and Christianity in general have been harnessed to the power of the multicultural left which has reigned supreme since WWII. The power and influence of the multicultural left has permeated all aspects of Western intellectual and political life, including all mainstream Christian sects. But there is nothing inherent in Christianity that implies that it will inevitably cooperate in the suicide of the West. What is needed is to change the secular power structure and to actively encourage ethnically defensive forms of Christianity.
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The “pathetic comments” aren’t intended to “help their White constituents.” It’s just a repeat of Revilo P. Oliver’s experience with the John Birch Society:
http://www.thebirdman.org/Index/NetLoss/NetLoss-Oliver.html
With that in mind, it’s time for TOQ and its affiliates to renounce Jared Taylor and American Renaissance, the proud successor to the B’nai Birch.
I have to disagree with MacDonald on his final point. Christianity has to a large degree contributed to the “suicide” of the West. Ultimately, it will prove to be incompatible with White nationalism.
All these WN discussions of Christianity/religion always seem to forget the religion of the ruling class of America since George Washington until today – Freemasonry. Freemasonry has been the religion of the ruling class of the USA elites since the earliest settlements, and at least until the post WWII era, was the unofficial but certainly dominant religion/church/philosophy among the WASP elites.
A distinguishing feature of the Masons is that they specifically included any monotheistic religions – meaning Christian (usually Protestant, but included Catholics at times) – specifically included Jews – and also a significant Muslim influence, due to international ties and “mystic” and “esoteric” connections. They would also accept a polytheistic Hindu/Buddhist type if they would mouth the words. It aimed to be a truly international network. Majorityrights in the UK had a revealing article comparing the Stars and Stripes flag of the USA with the flag of the British-India Company (connection to captialism, even Calvinism)
This is replayed in a uniquely American sense with the Mormons, since Mormonism is basically just a rebel cult of Masonry, unlike the orthodox sects of Masonry like the Shriners, Scottish Rites, Prince Hall for blacks, etc. (American Masons may be unique in that they had a white middle-class organization like Shriners.)
A feature of Masonry is that it started as independent of and in opposition to the Vatican hierarchy, and it was and is a caste-based fraternity, virtually a recreation of the typical European peerage/royalty system, but with an Enlightenment and pro-science slant.
There were two early Masonic establishments in America, the North and the South. The Southern Masons easily integrated (the few but influential Southern) Jews into their fraternity, and were big on Old Testament and Jewish Kabbalist mysticism. This arrangement (a collaboration between Christian elites and the international Jewish Slave Power against the white working class in the South, not to mention the black slaves) worked until the Civil War, when the abolitionist Northern Masons/Christians tried to break the Slave Power and (naively) attempt to settle all the blacks back in Africa. Consider that Liberia was run for it’s first generation by the black Prince Hall Masons.
The key point of the Masonic religion that was the dominant elite WASP religion/fraternity from colonial days until the Jewish/liberal/multiculturalist revolt in the 1960s, is that is was a class-based, initiatory, “private fraternity” or a “secret society”. The modern equivalents are the “Skull and Bones” types fraternities among the Yale elites, etc.
How Jews subverted and eventually replaced these networks is an extremely fascinating story. I’d suggest looking into the first American WASP attempt at a world wide empire – the Office of Naval Intelligence – which is the oldest US (and implicitly WASP) American global intelligence apparatus and how it was taken down in the 1960s by a form of blackmail. Jewish Hollywood and the multicultural organized crime networks of the 20-60s (immigrant Italian, Irish, Jewish, others) have a major role in this piece of history.
In a larger sense, the recent TOO articles on jury trials, and Robert Whitaker’s work on “wordism” plays into this as well. It’s all about social organization.
“But there is nothing inherent in Christianity that implies that it will inevitably cooperate in the suicide of the West. What is needed is to change the secular power structure and to actively encourage ethnically defensive forms of Christianity.”
I think MacDonald is right, and Huber is wrong. If Christianity is helping to kill the West, how was this murderous intent kept so well hidden for 1900 years? Rather, the churches have fallen under the sway of the liberalism that characterizes all mainstream organizations in western Europe and America. As Sunic pointed out, Christianity in eastern Europe is definitely not suicidal.
When I saw Tom Sunic had another article on Christianity, I was braced for the worst. Just as I succeed in getting some of my Christian friends to check out OO, it seemed that the magazine was going to begin another round of alienating religious types. But, fortunately, this time wasnt so bad. Certainly trying to understand why a number of Christian groups are pushing multiculturalism and non-White immigration, and working to counteract this is a good thing.
Its important to distinguish here between White Christians and organized Christianity. Your average churchgoer is implicity White, most churches are highly segregated, and their contituents live in majority White neighborhoods. They arent interested in bringing over hordes of non-Whites, most of their friends are like them, and they prefer being around their own kind. Christianity is overwhelmingly a positive factor in peoples’ lives, and beneficial for the race in regard to fertility and family cohesion.
On the other hand, many Christian organizations are interested in growth, and this usually means spreading the faith to non-Whites. These organizations have expanded concepts of universalism and made them of central importance. This was not the case some 50 years ago, and is certainly a problem for WN today.
Much of the solution is in reaching back to religious doctrines of the past, and synthesizing Christian thought with race realism in a manner that appeals to your average Christian. A central theme in this synthesis is the idea that the creator of the universe established diversity on earth for a reason. In the same way that every creature is unique and meant for a particular habitat, every human race is meant to keep a separate, unique identity, and a separate homeland. All races are important and have the right to exist, including Whites. There is no hatred or bigotism in that message. This is something that will tend to resonate with most people, as we are naturally ethnocentric and have a tribal nature.
It is probably necessary to abandon certain religious organizations, who are beyond reformation. One of these is possibly the Catholic church. Hutton Gibson (Mel’s dad) is a devout Catholic, but argues that the current Church is illegitimate, after the changes wrought from Vatican II (he was a guest on the Political Cesspool radio program). He and his son are considering establishing a new congregation, which adopts the beliefs and practices of the old church. We can expect that with time, ethnic friction will encourage a re-examination of current beliefs in Christian universalism. I agree wholeheartedly with Dr. MacDonald that there is nothing in Christianity that encourages Western suicide. The task for White Nationalism is to influence Christianity in the right direction.
“With that in mind, it’s time for TOQ and its affiliates to renounce Jared Taylor and American Renaissance, the proud successor to the B’nai Birch.”
I disagree with this. Yes, it is true that Jared Taylor does not go far enough, refusing to venture into the Jewish Question, and I guess has some censorship of the issue. But realize that the WN movement does and should consist of a wide variety of different organizations with complimentary goals. The purpose of American Renaissance is to promote the ideas of race realism and halt all immigration. Taylor believes that his purposes are best achieved with Jews on board, and there are some notable Jews in his organization. It seems that a growing number of Jews are coming to the conclusion that third-world immigration is not in their best interests. Making American Renaissance safe for them is a strategy that might very well pay off in achieving that organization’s goals. That would be to the great benefit of WN; AmRen’s success is a victory for Whites.
However, American Renaissance cannot be the entire movement. It has a legitimate purpose and noble goals, but there is also a very pressing need to address the JQ. The Occidental Quarterly and other groups should (in my opinion) keep the JQ front and center, because it is so critical. I believe that WNs should wholeheartedly support AmRen, its particularly good as a first step toward awakening Whites. But at the same time, the heart and soul of the WN movement should be with groups such as TOQ, which should remain entirely European, and permit all issues to be discussed openly and honestly. There should never come a day when Jewish individuals are permitted leadership positions, which always seem to lead to eventual Jewish takeover and subversion. Whites will always need a core organization that is truly theirs, which understands the Jews even better than they understand themselves; thus an organization that can deal with them on equal terms.
A debate between Christians over the Christian Bible in general & the New Testament in particular automatically excludes Jews from direct input. The Jews can use surrogates, but, they can’t directly take part. This burns the Jew like nothing else.
@Christian Populist
Yep. I stay up nights worrying about Masonic whooppee cushions, water balloons, & tiny motorbikes. ;) It probably is a plot against Western Civilization. Do you realize that everytime you see a fat guy riding a tiny car or motorbike—you are seing a Grand Master of the Masons. :)
Unfortunately, Mr. Sunic exaggerates (mythologizes) Eastern Europe’s role as a Christian bulwark against “the Orient”. He is not alone in this regard – it’s quite common all over Eastern Europe, including Russia. It is, however, very hard to take such mythologies seriously. The Ottoman Empire subjugated and dominated Mr. Sunic’s South-Eastern flanks for 500-600 years. Not much of a bulwark, if you ask me.
Geiseric is correct in his point regarding Mr. Sunic and his exaggerations. But Mr. Sunic seems to make a point of exaggerating “his people” and their toughness while disparaging other Euro-types, especially Northern Europeans.
Freemasonry is Judaism for gentiles.
Yes we must have boudries that keep the ethinc interest of jews and zionist christian liberal and conservatives out of our new parties. We have maybe 30 to years to turn the tide a bit and Amren is a good example of a how it can easily be tainted.. zionists hate us and we need to keep them out of our communities.
@Z.O.G.
I always wondered why they had K for Kosher on those whooppee cushions—now I know. Thanks. ;) 4418-88.
What weakened the position of the church in Europe was the surge of Holocaust worshipping, which imitated an ancient Christian theme: innocents get killed by evil-doers and the public does nothing to prevent it. The worshipping of the Jews who died and safeguarding the ones who survived out of a misplaced sense of guilt has replaced the Christian moral standard and has put Jewish suffering as the new moral standard. The only way out is back to Christianity as it was, i.e. an European tradition, with its clear destinction from Judaism.
@Tom Watson
No, you don’t – you stay up nights worrying about Jews, which was sort of the point of my post. It’s funny, whenever people talk about Jewish power in America, they often get the exact same reaction you just gave about Freemasonry. “It’s a plot to undermine Western civilization” indeed.
The history isn’t in question, the Freemasons used to be “the establishment.” Perhaps, or perhaps not, it’s interesting that they were the first Western social institution that allowed Jews as equal members.
To attain power, you make alliances with anyone and everyone who explicitely or implicitely opposes the ZOG, including skinheads, AmRen, Teabags, even including elements of the (heavily Jewish) radical left. Then, when you have sufficient clout, you bring them to heel or dispose of them. It’s all a matter of organization, timing…and charismatic leadership. That, you can’t force; but I suspect that He is already with us, looking over the political battlefield, allowing circumstances to ripen.
Tom,
Being sarcastic to other contributors detracts from the discussion. If your thing is flaming there already exists a whole circle of V-bulletin forums suited perfectly for that.
“Perhaps, or perhaps not, it’s interesting that they were the first Western social institution that allowed Jews as equal members.”
It certainly is interesting. Whoever wrote the Protocols darkly alluded to some of the possible ramifications of this, and overall that kind of bleeding edge Universalism helped make Elite Freemasonry more subversive than is generally acknowledged.
At some point it stopped being Christian and Western in any real way, at least in what was than the most influential part of the Country: New England.
And even as late as the Rockefeller Report that was central to getting Roe v. Wade passed, the influence of Freemason types associated with Yale University was being felt as a powerful force against Tradition and Particulist Moral Systems.
One key to sorting out many of these issues is to ask, “Is this idea good for the diverse white American peoples?”
So often the question answers itself.
I have to disagree with fwood1 about Christianity. Christianity is the foundation of liberalism and ultimately Bolshevism/Communism. All of Christianity’s founders were Jewish. Therefore, it is really nothing more than a sect of Judaism. I’m sorry, but as someone who is anti-Jewish I want nothing to do with a religion that has its roots in Judaism.
My computer (xp) kept on showing this message about this csrss.exe thing….i have no experience with computers but i looked it up and it said that it’s a system file or it cud be a virus??? i searched my computer for csrss.exe files and 3 results came up….i’ll copy them onto this but can anybody tell me if any of these are viruses or not? please CSRSS.EXE-03323C54.pf location=C:\WINDOWS\Prefetch csrss.exe location=C:\WINDOWS\system32 csrss.exe location=C:\WINDOWS\ServicePackFiles\i38… P.S. i scanned them with AVG but it said that it has no infections…i don’t know if i shud trust AVG I also scanned my whole computer with AVg and the sign about the csrss.exe doesn’t come up anymore but i need to know if any of those files are viruses or not…thanks for the help :) santoramaa