Because a lot of people who read the blog don’t read the main articles and because the main page doesn’t have room for comment, this is notice of Solzhenitsyn’s Chapter 21. See here. Kevin M
Solzhenitsyn's “During the Soviet-German War,” Chapter 21 of 200 Years Together
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Solzhenitsyn's “During the Soviet-German War,” Chapter 21 of 200 Years Together
- on August 15, 2010 at 6:49 pm
The Joys of Jihad: Islamentable, Isatrocious, Isbetrayal
Nordics versus Implicit Jews in "The Switch"
“A Jewish author “explains” this as a result of “Hitler’s propaganda.”
Hebrew has two words for “propaganda.” One translates into English as propaganda. The other translates into English as explanation. Jews must “explain” things to the goyim.
“Solzhenitsyn often juxtaposes Jewish and Russian suffering but emphasizes that Jewish suffering is better known. He describes Babi Yar, the site of mass executions, mostly of Jews, by the Germans and notes that “the executions at Babi Yar have become a symbol in world history.” But immediately after he writes that:
‘it should be recalled that within a few kilometers from Babi Yar, in the enormous Darnitskiy camp, tens of thousands Soviet prisoners of war, soldiers and officers, died during the same months: yet we do not commemorate it properly, and many are not even aware of it.’”
Reminds me of Elie Wiesel. I mean, how could some one imprisoned at Auschwitz NOT count the 100,000+ non-jews who died there as victims of the holocaust?? GEEZ, they worked and suffered right along side of him!! (and didn’t make it out alive like he did.)
KM: Solzhenitsyn expresses amazement at the reaction of one Jew who felt that the war was not really his war: “Of course, Stalin’s regime was not any better than Hitler’s. But for the wartime Jews, these two monsters could not be equal! If that other monster won, what could then have happened to the Soviet Jews? Wasn’t this war the personal Jewish war, wasn’t it their own Patriotic War — to cross arms with the deadliest enemy in all of Jewish history?”…
KM: One wishes that Solzhenitsyn would have been more specific about what he feels were the “fatal miscalculations” of the Jews that led to the Holocaust. I suspect that the well-founded reality behind “Judeo-Bolshevism” mentioned in this chapter and the aggressively hostile Jewish stance toward the Czar leading up to the Revolution (which, as Chapter 5 shows, was largely unwarranted) –would have been high on his list.
————————-
The analysis of WWII as a race war orchestrated by Jewry and its Communist stooges on one hand, and by the reactive Nazis on the other, all over the question of whether or not Jews via Communism or Nazis via fascism would rule Western humanity, is bolstered by these passages.
Perhaps the Jew who was ambivalent about fighting the Nazis was that era’s equivalent of what Zionists categorize as “self-hating Jews” today. That is, perhaps he was not on board with the Jewish program to leverage Communism into Jewish totalitarian rule over humanity then, just as certain anti-Zionist Jews aren’t on board with the Zionist program to do the same today.
It seems there are more than a few Jews who sincerely believe that Jewry indeed brings nearly all of the s**t storms it regularly inspires straight down upon its own head. They should know, and I would trust an anti-Zionist Jew’s analysis on the subject way before I would trust any Zionist Jew’s, because the anti-Zionist Jew is the one who is usually merely hoping to survive or prevent what he knows will be the inevitable blowback that domineering Jewry and its totalitarian quest will inevitably bring down upon all Jews.
Thus, who are the true Jewish heroes? The Jewish “anti-Semites” (or so called). And the prophets were rejected in their own time by Jewry as well. Supremacist Jewry is apparently allergic to truth.
I think Hitler had a nice quip to the same effect: that there were plenty of Jews in the Austrian army-he would see them strolling around Vienna in their elegant staff uniforms. It was only when he got to the front that the Jews were missing.
Again, KMac, do you know any way we can contribute to this translation effort without going through Pay Pal? I can find no P.O. Box on the site.
Solzhenitsyn: “We must not overlook what that war was for the Russians. The war rescued not only their country, not only Soviet Jewry, but also the entire social system of the Western world from Hitler.”
This quote reminds us of the fact that Solzhenitsyn is, above all, a Russian national-imperialist, not an ethnic nationalist in the Western sense. He thus recycles the boring Soviet propaganda phrase about saving the Western world from Hitler. And even though I agree with MacDonald about Jewry’s key role in post-revolutionary Russia, neither Solzhenitsyn nor other patriotic Russians can completely avoid the unpleasant facts about their own complicity in their own history. Victimology is a very Russian exercise, but does not have much credibility outside Russia.
@Geiseric: Good point. I should have commented on Solz’s point about Hitler. Kevin M
Geiseric is completely right.
@ Geiseric,
Indeed, the quote ignores the decisive role that Bolshevism and Soviet Jewry played in giving rise to Hitler in the first place.
I’ve sensed about Solzhenitsyn’s writings on these matters a certain ambivalence about following his discoveries and documentaries to their natural conclusions. Perhaps it had to do with his early Communist indoctrination which in his mind seems to have gotten mixed together with Christianity; perhaps it had to do with his “we can do no wrong” Russian nationalism; perhaps it had to do with a disbelief that he and so many others were so thoroughly duped by the Zionists (not unlike the stubborn Bushcons and Obamunists of today); perhaps it had to do with the fact that he married a Jewess and fathered her children.
Far be it from me to criticize the Great Man who did so much and sacrificed so much to advance the cause of truth and justice, and was sliced, diced and put through the ringer time and again only to drag himself back to his feet and keep fighting, but yes, it seems clear that he is holding back on his conclusions in this work.
Bob,
Please send me email and we discuss how you can contribute to the project without subsidizing PayPal. editorsethnopolitics@myway.com
The problem is that I am not in USA and I dont feel right to ask Americans to send money as Intl money order. But if your contribution is not very small I will ask my American translator if he is willing to provide his mailing address so the contributor can send him a money order or a personal check directly. Or we will think about some other option.
@Kevin: Thanks, I agree with Chris Moore above there’s “a certain ambivalence” in play here. I think it’s important to keep in mind that (Muscovian) Russia has been a multi-ethno-cultural empire (rather than a nation state in the Western sense) throughout its history.
The “anti-fascist” rhetoric recycled by Solzhenitsyn is also favored by the present post-Soviet regime in Moscow, whose popular appeal has, to a large extent, been based on a traditional anti-Westernism that has been an important part of the mindset and national identity of Russia throughout the centuries.
So even if Solzhenitsyn and his fellow Russian nationalists are aware of Jews as a hostile ethnic minority within Russia, they are usually even more focused on the external “enemy” in the West (Europe/EU + America/USA). Hitler, in this context, is the perfect bogeyman.
Hitler saved the USSR by not listening to the military professionals in June 1941.
I think a superpower ( and nuclear ) Germany would have acted very aggressively, it’s only in hindsight that we think it might have been tolerable to live in such a world.
Did NS Germany engage in biological warfare? I don’t think so.
Solzhenitsyn was the farthest thing possible from a Russian imperialist or “we-can-do-no-wrong” nationalist: he was a Christian patriot. Patriotism, he wrote, does not mean “to serve [one's homeland] unquestioningly, [nor] to support her unjust claims, rather, to frankly assess her faults, her transgressions, and to repent for these.”
He supported independence for the non-Slavic Republics of the USSR and always urged Russia to look inward rather than seeking power abroad. He had nothing good to say about Hitler or Hitlerism, but this hardly entails any concession to Soviet ideology.
Nationalism, imperialism, patriotism and Orthodox Christianity harmonize extremely well in a Russian context. Solzhenitsyn has suggested a new Russian empire consisting of Russia, Ukraine, Belarus and Kazakhstan (the latter being a non-Slavic former Soviet republic). Solzhenitsyn’s vision is an anti-Western Russia. Solzhenitsyn’s public approval of Putinism seems to suggest that his anti-Westernism implies more than introvert monasticism.
“…but this hardly entails any concession to Soviet ideology.”
We can pick and choose a particular time of a person’s life and try to draw conclusions from it, but it’s a difficult venture when scrutinized. A.S. did, obviously, become a well known anti-Communist, but he himself talks about his early affinity for Bolshevik ideology on the pages of Gulag. Eight years in prison can certainly change your mind about things, or push you in another direction. I’m not saying that ideologically he wouldn’t have arrived where he ended up, just that eight years of hard labor and reflection can hasten that arrival.
Though an admirer of A.S., his “Christian patriotism” is still to me something weird, along the lines of a Charlemagne, lopping the heads off of Saxon kinfolk while proclaiming the truth of Yahweh. And though the exigencies of war force many to suppress their beliefs, we may ask what type of “Christian patriot” he was, in the sense that the term is implied, as he watched his comrades gangraping their way across Prussia.
Solzhenitsyn gives the USSR too much credit for beating Germany and downplays the aggressive Soviet intentions that led to war, I see that as a perfectly natural stance for a Russian patriot.
As China turns into a mega-state akin to a giant Hong Kong Russia will become part of an alliance taking in the US, and India.
Pakistan will become allied to China
Someday: “Solzhenitsyn gives the USSR too much credit for beating Germany and downplays the aggressive Soviet intentions that led to war, I see that as a perfectly natural stance for a Russian patriot.”
Why? I consider myself an American patriot, but feel no loyalty whatsoever to the Bushcons and their war agenda or the Obamunists and their war agenda, recognizing that they are both working for the same corrupt and “satanic” masters, and are hostile, subversive interlopers. Solzhenitsyn was initially taken in by Communism/Bolshevism, but when he realized it was such an evil monstrosity, one would have thought he would have abandoned any nostalgia for it entirely. In fact, he seems to do just that when he writes: “Of course, Stalin’s regime was not any better than Hitler’s.”
But then he also makes the crack about Soviet Russia rescuing “the entire social system of the Western world from Hitler.” And then as KM points out, he infers that Jewry made “fatal miscalculations” that led to the Holocaust, which again suggests he didn’t really believe Hitler was such a monster at all but rather behaving somewhat rationally towards Jewry in a tit-for-tat retaliation of the lives of Jews for the lives of Christians.
The whole thing is a bit incoherent.
It seems for me the rational view is that many Russians were duped by Jewry, Bolshevism, and Communism when their guard was down due to the incredible stupidity of WWI, their Christian elite and millions of their Christian citizens were murdered wholesale for this mistake, and then they lost millions more fighting Hitler and the Nazis who would never have arisen at all but for the aggressive intentions of Bolshevik Jewry and Communism to take over the world.
Maybe Putin is somewhat holding this conclusion back because of his own KGB background, but it seems inevitable that this is ultimately how history will record the whole sorry, satanic episode.
Germany was defeated by a 50/50 combination of US/UK bombing and the Russian army
Americans don’t feel the same way about wars because US has never been in a war where the country was in danger, Russians feel patriotic about WW2 because their country was in danger of being conquered and it pulled through.
Stalin was very bad but under the German NS rule Russians would have been starving helots, probably ceasing to exist in the long term.
The dreaded “Russian Winter” also was a factor. The Wehrmacht were unequiped and unprepared for that.
After the Germans got defeated at Stalingrad, a Russian soldier wrote: “Germans are funny fellows…, comming to conquer Stalingrad in shiny leather boots. They thought it would be a day-ride.”
Shows how unprepared they were, for the killer Russian Winter.
NS Germany was outproduced, not outfought. WW2 was settled in the factories more than on the battlefields.
Geiseric,
That’s strange that Hitler never attacked us with bio-warfare. People say the only reason he didn’t is ’cause he feared retaliation, but that doesn’t make sense to me. If you’re fighting for national and racial survival, and you know you are defeated, then anything goes, right ? So why didn’t he ?
I know that, Geiseric. If Hitler had Russia’s or America’s production capabilities, as well as the unlimited man-power, it would be a National Socialist world. Instead we’ve got a Jew-dominated world.
Reichsmarshall Goering: “This war isn’t the Second World War. This is the war of the Races. Whether we, the Germanic and Aryan men, or the Jew rule the world. That is the final issue.”
True. The Jews won. :(
“Russians feel patriotic about WW2 because their country was in danger of being conquered and it pulled through.”
Russia was conquered by 1921, dude, and they haven’t “pulled through” – they’re an alcoholic, drug addicted, criminal bunch who ship whatever women they have left to Tel Aviv brothels. It makes no difference if they’re tossed little conservative snacks by their masters – ooh, the Orthodox church is back! an oligarch is in jail! – all fetishized over by eager and desperate white Americans terrified by the prospects of the future. Demographically Russians were through ninety years ago, like us.
If I have a big reunion every year with my accomplished family, the Smiths, and a bunch of Jews and urban untermenschen come along and torture and starve and execute them all and leave only my two subpar cousins alive, the drunken underachievers John and Joe so that they can work as jailers or truckdrivers, then at the next Smith family reunion things aren’t quite the same, even though it’s still the “Smith Family Reunion”. There are no Smiths writing novels, working the land, giving heart transplants, playing the violin, or studying history, but there are Smiths doing shots of vodka and punching each other in the face.
“Russia” in the fanciful imagination, that of caviar and Pushkin and White Nights, wasn’t what was being attacked by the Germans. That Russia had already ceased to be two decades before. A seething bunch of aliens who’d just finished murdering tens of millions directing a body of rootless and violent rapists to be utilized as slavers was what was attacked.
I’m sure it’s only a matter of time before they do a piece on KMac:
The Journal for the Study of Antisemitism
http://www.jsantisemitism.org/journals.html
Good points, Stan.
“NS Germany was outproduced, not outfought. WW2 was settled in the factories more than on the battlefields.”
Yes but that was only after Hitler stopped Army group centre (Guiderian and von Bock) from capturing Moscow .
The Germans stopped for two months in front of Smolensk from June 1941, that was Hitler’s decision alone (although some say Goering had a hand in encouraging him) . After that, victory was no longer attainable. Hitler himself realized this by November 1941 and told Keitel so as recorded in Keitel’s diary
“I’m sure it’s only a matter of time before they do a piece on KMac:”
I’m not so sure. They love shining a spotlight on stupid people being stupidly anti-jewish but i don’t think they’re at all keen on giving the Professor any publicity.
Someday said:
“Hitler himself realized this by November 1941 and told Keitel so as recorded in Keitel’s diary.”
As far as I know, Keitel never kept a diary. He did, however, write his memoirs in the weeks before he was hanged at Nuremberg. I believe David Irving did the translation. Are his memoirs the ‘diary’ you are referring to? I can find no reference to this in my copy of Irving’s Hitler’s War as of yet, but I’ll look more closely. Could you provide a link or source for this fantastic claim? Thank you in advance.
This is from memory. The Psychopathic God: Adolf Hitler by Robert G. L. Waite cites ( I think) the contemporaneously written official OKW war diary for November 1941 as recording Hitler having told Keitel that final victory was no longer attainable.
To get back on topic it is interesting that Crossfire was made in 1947 about soldiers who didn’t think Jews had pulled their weight in the war. Nominated for a Best Picture Oscar it was beaten by … Gentleman’s Agreement
The film Gentleman’s Agreemen was based on a a runaway bestseller novel which sold over 1.6 million copies and reached No. 1 on the New York Times bestseller list in April 1947.
I am not argumentative in the least, but I am a stickler for factual accuracy, so please forgive me.
Not to beat a dead horse, but…
Someday said:
‘Yes but that was only after Hitler stopped Army group centre (Guiderian and von Bockt) from capturing Moscow .
The Germans stopped for two months in front of Smolensk from June 1941, that was Hitler’s decision alone (although some say Goering had a hand in encouraging him) .”
From my understanding, most historians think one of the fatal flaws of Operation Barbarossa in hindsight was the postponement from its original date of May 15. Due to the anti-German coup in Yugoslavia which required intervention, and also the heavy rains and bad weather that made roads in Russia impassable for tanks and other heavy vehicles, it was postponed by over a month to June 22. Also, while the main thrust towards Moscow was diverted southward to not only help capture Ukraine, and to secure Army Group Center’s southern flank, it was also to allow the supply lines to be re-established due to partisan harassment and the aforementioned bad weather.
Hitler’s decision against the advice of his generals to divert his forces did temporarily halt the Moscow drive, that is true, but it was due to his belief that its capture was second in importance to the primacy of knocking out Russia’s industrial capacity to continue the war by seizing other industrial centers and the Caucasus oil fields. If there is any evidence of Goering influencing his decision, I have not come across it. Fair enough. The rest is, as they say, history.
But my real issue is this statement you made:
“After that, victory was no longer attainable. Hitler himself realized this by November 1941 and told Keitel so as recorded in Keitel’s diary”
After I informed you Keitel never kept a diary, I requested a source for your assertion, and you replied:
“This is from memory. The Psychopathic God: Adolf Hitler by Robert G. L. Waite cites ( I think) the contemporaneously written official OKW war diary for November 1941 as recording Hitler having told Keitel that final victory was no longer attainable.”
The reason I find this claim so fantastic is that, well, it would substantially rewrite history wouldn’t it? Wouldn’t the image of a Fuhrer knowing victory was unattainable from the early outset, sacrificing countless lives to merely postpone the inevitable, his unshakable belief in the final victory a hollow charade, be endless grist for the jewish white-guilt mill, their anti-white-solidarity zeitgeist?
Anyways, I think the claim is bunk. But please understand only because I think it’s so important to be factually correct in all matters concerning the jewish question, especially on this website, otherwise our critics will tear us to pieces. So I contacted an old friend of mine, who incidentally, also knows Prof KMac (Prof KMac also wrote a great piece about him, click the link on my name to read it). This fellow not only had Keitel’s adjutant’s OKW wartime diary in his possession, but he also translated the Keitel death-row memoirs. So he would know, I think.
Anyways I asked him about your claim.
He responded:
From: “David Irving”
Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 2:01 PM
To: *********
Subject: Re: Did Keitel’s OKW war diary record Hitler as having admitted
victory was no longer attainable in Nov 1941?
> totally untrue
>
> David Irving
> Lake End House,
> Dorney,
> Windsor SL4 6QS
>
Thanks for listening. I hope this clears the air somewhat.
As I see it, Solzhenitsyn, in his desire to present as fair and balanced a picture of the suffering of the Jews as is possible, has underplayed the enormous suffering of the Russian people during this period. We are constantly reminded of Auschwitz or Sobibor or Buchenwald, but very few people have ever heard of the Piskarevsky Cemetery just outside of St. Petersburg, Russia.
When you go to St. Petersburg as a tourist, you see the Hermitage Museum, the magnificent summer Palace of Peter the Great at Petrodvorets, the Fortress of St. Peter and Paul where the remains of the last Tsar are buried with its tons of gold ornamentation, St. Issac’s Cathedral, the palaces along the Neve River, etc. No tour group goes to Piskarevsky.
It’s a long Metro ride from the city center. When I went there, part of the Metro had collapsed and we had to take a bus part of the way. When you walk from the Metro station towards the entrance, you see people selling flowers, crosses and such. Piskarevsky is a very stark place. There are no statues or tombstones. There is a walkway down the center and on each side are long grass-covered cylindrical mounds with just a dated plaque to show when the mounds were sealed. There were flowers strewn on the mounds and some crosses plunked down here and there. These are collected every night. Chopin’s Funeral March plays constantly in the background. It is estimated that at least 500,000 and possibly over 1 million men, women and children are buried there. As the citizens of Leningrad died a horrible death from starvation during the 900 day nazi siege, their bodies were unceremoniously carted off and dumped in the trenches. Nobody kept count. We saw an old woman wearing a “babushka” down on her hands and knees in front of one of the mounds. My companion asked if she needed help and she told us no. She said that most of her relatives were buried there and she had never married and was alone in the world. At this point, the whole scene overwhelmed me and I confess to almost breaking down.
For those of you who think that Hitler was a god-like figure, I say wake up. The dead buried in Piskarevsky were innocent whites.
OK I was wrong about the primary source (I did say it was from memory) however I am more confident that Hitler is on record as telling some general that in Nov ’41 and that it is cited in “The Psychopathic God’ . A trip to a reference library is called for .
“Wouldn’t the image of a Fuhrer knowing victory was unattainable from the early outset”
As this was 3 months in and the war in the East lasted 4 years it was was the early outset in a sense but it’s a misunderstanding of the German strategy to think they thought of it that way. They ( military professionals) had planned to be going in for the finish at this point.
AT this point, less than two months into the campaign, the German army stood on the doorstep of the greatest military victory in history. Incomprehensibly, Soviet commanders had elected to fight on the frontiers, inviting encirclement and destruction.[15] Once the Germans were through the front-line defenses, the pace and depth of their attack prevented the Soviets from forming coherent defensive fronts, leaving isolated pockets to be cut off and destroyed. Everywhere the panzers stood victorious, having come farther faster than any armed force ever had.
At that fateful moment, Moscow and victory lay in Hitler’s grasp. All four of the Soviet armies arrayed in front of Army Group Center had been encircled and pulverized, the Germans wrecking 114 of 160 Soviet divisions.[16] Soviet commanders from division to front level were arrested and shot.[17] Divisions by the dozen were ground to powder (Timoshenko’s report to Stalin on 16 July stated, “We have no trained forces of adequate strength covering the Vyazma-Moscow axis; the main deficiency–no tanks.”[18]) Soviet forces in the north and south fought for their lives, unable to send reinforcements to Moscow. Columns of panzers roamed deep in the Soviet rear, sowing panic and confusion. With six more weeks of good flying weather and dry roads, the panzer commanders and their hard-marching infanterie comrades had plenty of time to rout the Soviet remnants standing between them and the ultimate prize, the Kremlin. The Wehrmacht’s most noted soldiers–the panzer commanders Guderian, Hoth, and Von Manstein, as well as senior officers like Brauchitsch (the Army Commander), Halder (Chief of the General Staff), and Von Bock (commander of Army Group Center)–urged with passion and conviction that taking Moscow would end the war, and that delay would mean ruin [...]
Only the elimination of [Moscow] . . . will remove the possibility of the enemy rebuilding their defeated armed forces and reestablishing them on an operationally effective basis . . . . [T]he offensive by Army Group Center cannot continue after October on account of the weather conditions . . . . [T]he operation can be successful only if the forces of Army Group Center are systematically concentrated on this single goal to the exclusion of other tactical actions which are not essential for the success of the operation.[19]
But Hitler would not listen…’
Thank you for your response, Someday.
You could put ten credible historians in a room and get ten different opinions as to “where the war was lost”. The writer of the piece you link to makes an excellent case for, what is in essence, his educated opinion. He could very well be right, or he could be wrong. Only Odin knows. But he does state: “In the end, this inability to focus on one decisive strategic objective (instead of multiple objectives) doomed Germany to failure and destruction”. Which of course would be the The Chief’s fault. As I said before, “fair enough”.
But here’s where you lose me, Someday. How do you rectify this:
” Hitler having told (some General or other) that final victory was no longer attainable”
with this?:
“As this was 3 months in and the war in the East lasted 4 years it was was the early outset in a sense but it’s a misunderstanding of the German strategy to think they thought of it that way. They ( military professionals) had planned to be going in for the finish at this point.”
So did I misunderstand your meaning of “final victory” as meaning, well, final victory (winning the war)? Can you really blame me if I did? Or did you misunderstand the German strategy that “final victory” really meant “short-term victory” and not “long-term victory”? Or did the military professionals hear “final victory” to mean “victory now”, which was “unattainable”, as opposed to “victory later”, which was attainable? Sheesh.
Anyways, I briefly looked into your source for this claim that I originally took issue with. And it does have an ironic twist.
Robert G. L. Waite, author of The Psycopathic God – from Wikipedia:
“Waite’s interest in psychohistory was influenced in part by his own experience during his first year of teaching at Williams College, where he suffered from depression—what he called “black despair. The young professor convinced himself he was a total failure and even submitted his resignation.”
“His struggle with depression influenced his studies greatly, particularly when he began researching the psychohistorical profile of Adolf Hitler.”
“Waite immersed himself in psychoanalytic theory and consulted with experts like…Norbert Bromberg, and Peter Loewenberg, a historian and psychoanalyst.”
“… The Psychopathic God: Adolf Hitler, produced intense controversy. A criticism of the volume from an admiring professor who assigns the book regularly in his course on Hitler and the Holocaust is that because of the author’s awe of those with psychological credentials, he does not adequately distinguish the value of their worth.”
Waite’s aforementioned book is panned by reviewers for being a post-mortem “Freudian analysis” of AH. Freud?! Psychoanalytic theory?! Someday, you do realize this is TOO, right? What would Prof KMac say? You have read CofC and the chapter on Uncle Siggy, right?
It gets better. Waite pleased some folks so much, I guess, he found himself employed at the OSI. “The Office of Special Investigations (OSI), in the Criminal Division of the U.S. Department of Justice, has been investigating and prosecuting cases against Nazi offenders since 1979. OSI and the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum are “siblings” of a sort, having been conceived within the same political and moral context of the late 1970s. In recent years, the Museum has been of great assistance to OSI.” While working with the USHMM, Waite penned such articles as “Returning Jewish Cultural Property” and my favorite, “Teenage Sexuality in Nazi Germany”.
Waite may have been a scholar of the highest caliber for all I know. And I have nothing against those struggling with mental illnesses. That is why I look forward to Someday finding the exact source of his original contention and seeing if it passes the smell test. Because Waite’s later connections sure as hell don’t. Just ask John Demanjiuk.
Here’s the money shot. Again, from Wikipedia:
“A man (Waite) of strong and sometimes stubborn views, he could act emotionally even in the public eye, once walking out of a television interview that included the Nazi apologist David Irving.”
Ain’t that a kick in the n*ts?
TGD: “We are constantly reminded of Auschwitz or Sobibor or Buchenwald, but very few people have ever heard of the Piskarevsky Cemetery just outside of St. Petersburg, Russia.”
Apples and oranges. A war cemetery is not a concentration camp.
“When you go to St. Petersburg as a tourist, you see the Hermitage Museum, the magnificent summer Palace of Peter the Great at Petrodvorets, the Fortress of St. Peter and Paul where the remains of the last Tsar are buried with its tons of gold ornamentation, St. Issac’s Cathedral, the palaces along the Neve River, etc. No tour group goes to Piskarevsky.”
Tourists are interested in architecture, aesthetic pleasure and cultural history. The Czarist palaces and monuments are obvious choices. Soviet cemeteries are not.
“It is estimated that at least 500,000 and possibly over 1 million men, women and children are buried there. As the citizens of Leningrad died a horrible death from starvation during the 900 day nazi siege, their bodies were unceremoniously carted off and dumped in the trenches. Nobody kept count. … The dead buried in Piskarevsky were innocent whites.”
They died more because of Soviet cynicism and brutality than because of the German siege. What you’ve done is to buy the Soviet propaganda version wholesale. Besides, many of the dead buried there are not necessarily whites.
Read the linked article -”The World Will Hold Its Breath”: Reinterpreting Operation Barbarossa it appeared in Parameters the US Army Journal.
(and here is a whole book that argues the same Hitler’s Panzers East:
World War II Reinterpreted
If Hitler did say in Nov ’41 that final victory could no longer be attained I think it just shows Hitler was perceptive in recognizing by Nov 1941 what several military historians have come to believe; that he had a genuine chance of a swift decisive victory but could no longer achieve the kind of result he wanted, IE conquering land in the east for German colonists by late 1941.
Geiseric,
The people of Leninigrad would not have starved to death in the early 1940s if the Germans had not invaded the Soviet Union.
The blame for this, and all the other mass misery of WW2, belongs to the false religion Nazism and the false god Hitler.
Every state bears responsibility for its own population – even in times of war. The Soviet state could and should have evacuated Leningrad, but decided to risk the lives of its inhabitants because of the symbolic status of the “Jerusalem of communism.” The Germans were responsible for POWs in occupied territories, but not for Soviet civilians and combatants in Soviet controlled territory.
“Of course, Stalin’s regime was not any better than Hitler’s.”
I think Stalin’s regime was definitely worse than Hitler’s. But Stalin’s regime was much more “Jew-friendly” than Hitler’s was.
“The blame for this, and all the other mass misery of WW2, belongs to the false religion Nazism and the false god Hitler.”
It must have been pretty bad on the Russian people when 3 million German soldiers and 4.000 Tanks came crashing through their lands.
Imagine that.
Speaking of Stalin and the Jews…
Soon after the funeral of the “father of all nations,” this joke appeared:
A little Jewish man knocked on the gates of the Kremlin:
“May I see Comrade Stalin?” he said to the guard.
“Comrade Stalin’s dead. Haven’t you heard?”
“Thank you,” said the Jew and left, only to come back in a moment.
“I’d like to talk to Comrade Stalin,” he told the guard again.
“Are you crazy?” said the guard. “Stalin’s dead.”
“Thank you, thank you,” said the man, leaving.
But he soon returned: “Just one short word to Comrade Stalin. Please!”
“Get out of here! I’ll arrest you as a stupid nuisance! I’ve told you ten times: Comrade Stalin’s dead, dead, dead!”
“Oh, thank you so much. I just can’t hear enough of it.”
“The people of Leninigrad would not have starved to death in the early 1940s if the Germans had not invaded the Soviet Union.”
Yeah, well, they also wouldn’t have starved to death if they’d fought as an ethnic group against the competing ethnic group that took control of their state two decades previously. And they also wouldn’t have starved to death if they’d simply turned around and shot the people that were using them as cannon fodder (in the same way identical ethnic string pullers use half wit patriots or economically disenfranchised men and women from Iowa and Oregon today). There can be no sympathy for any post-war Gulag victim who in any way fought for the very regime that had already wiped out and imprisoned tens of millions before the war. This shoudn’t be hard to grasp.
It’s funny you use the ridiculous handle “Whites Unite”. The Whites of Russia, in the historical anticommunist sense, recognized that their state was, post “revolution”, at war with their nation. Had the other dopey Russians done so – “united” with them, as it were – things might have turned out differently. But they didn’t. So here we are, lonely, vanishing voices, offering anonymous “opinions” on an obscure website while our world dies around us – deservedly.
Yeah, just a benign little Jewish fellow, shrinking, kippah in hand, so happy that that nasty old dictator who single-handedly ran an empire, alone, no help, was gone. No leather jacket, no revolver, no NKVD orders, just an Isaac Babel caricature, friendly to the peasant, harmless to all.
“The blame for this, and all the other mass misery of WW2, belongs to the false religion Nazism and the false god Hitler.”
Bolshevism was the secular jewish version of Nazism. The NSDAP were a reaction. Extolling Nazism as some people do may well be a blind alley but at the same time *wholly* blaming Nazism has been used as a smokescreen for 60 years for the jewish Bolshevik holocaust of tens of millions of white Christians including deliberately starving 6 million Ukrainians to death as revenge for earlier pogroms.
The memory of one holocaust has been used to cover up the memory of a first, and wholly denied, holocaust. If one is bad so is the other.
@knuttson
A good example of using comedy as stealth propaganda.
Stan
“Yeah, well, they also wouldn’t have starved to death if they’d fought as an ethnic group against the competing ethnic group that took control of their state two decades previously.”
You are ignorant “”##% without any knowledge of Russian Civil war and the following 13-year-long struggle of the people against bolsheviks, so-called “Dirty War” of Moscow against its own people. Thousands of peasant rebellions were fought all over Russia, hundreds of thousands were killed. Read Black Book of Communism for your education.
My people fought as they could and they lost. Now it is your turn. Lets see how your words match your deeds.
“Yeah, well, they also wouldn’t have starved to death if they’d fought as an ethnic group against the competing ethnic group that took control of their state two decades previously.”
We can also say that about us: The White race wouldn’t have became a minority and eventually wiped out if they hadn’t allowed the Jews to control our politicians, media, whatever. Those stupid White people deserved all they got.
Soviet Civilian Deaths: 16,000,000
German Civilian Deaths: 3,810,000
Soviet civilians definitely suffered the most.
“You are ignorant “”##% without any knowledge of Russian Civil war and the following 13-year-long struggle of the people against bolsheviks, so-called “Dirty War” of Moscow against its own people.”
Sigh. You get a pass because English isn’t your first language, but all you did is repeat what I said already. The Russian people lost when the Civil War was lost.
“Thousands of peasant rebellions were fought all over Russia, hundreds of thousands were killed.”
Yeah, I get it dude. You don’t seem to understand what I’m saying.
“We can also say that about us: The White race wouldn’t have became a minority and eventually wiped out if they hadn’t allowed the Jews to control our politicians, media, whatever. Those stupid White people deserved all they got.”
That’s right. Bitter pill to swallow, but that’s the way it goes.
I like the little touch of comparing two numbers and drawing conclusions about the level of “suffering”. Nothing about percentage of population, nothing about rape, imprisonment, or torture, nothing about aftermath, etc…
There were a couple back to back mass murders in my city a while back. One family had six people killed, the other had seven. The latter family clearly suffered more.
“You are ignorant “”##% without any knowledge of Russian Civil war and the following 13-year-long struggle of the people against bolsheviks, so-called “Dirty War” of Moscow against its own people.”
Sigh. You get a pass because English isn’t your first language, but all you did is repeat what I said already. The Russian people lost when the Civil War was lost.
“Thousands of peasant rebellions were fought all over Russia, hundreds of thousands were killed.”
Yeah, I get it dude. You don’t seem to understand what I’m saying.
“We can also say that about us: The White race wouldn’t have became a minority and eventually wiped out if they hadn’t allowed the Jews to control our politicians, media, whatever. Those stupid White people deserved all they got.”
That’s right. Bitter pill to swallow, but that’s the way it goes.
I like your little touch of comparing two numbers and drawing conclusions about the level of “suffering”. Nothing about percentage of population, nothing about rape, imprisonment, or torture, nothing about aftermath, etc…
There were a couple back to back mass murders in my city a while back. One family had six people killed, the other had seven. The latter family clearly suffered more.
RF: “… Russian Civil war and the following 13-year-long struggle of the people against bolsheviks, so-called “Dirty War” of Moscow against its own people. Thousands of peasant rebellions were fought all over Russia, hundreds of thousands were killed.”
A majority of Russians did not fight against the Bolsheviks, but against the White forces (often consisting of professional army unites). This is an important lesson for those in the West who tend to regard Russia as a deeply conservative culture.
“You are ignorant “”##% without any knowledge of Russian Civil war and the following 13-year-long struggle of the people against bolsheviks, so-called “Dirty War” of Moscow against its own people.”
Sigh. You get a pass because English isn’t your first language, but all you did is repeat what I said already. The Russian people lost when the Civil War was lost.
“Thousands of peasant rebellions were fought all over Russia, hundreds of thousands were killed.”
Yeah, I get it dude. You don’t seem to understand what I’m saying.
“We can also say that about us: The White race wouldn’t have became a minority and eventually wiped out if they hadn’t allowed the Jews to control our politicians, media, whatever. Those stupid White people deserved all they got.”
That’s right. Bitter pill to swallow, but that’s the way it goes.
I like the little touch of comparing two numbers and drawing conclusions about the level of “suffering”. Nothing about percentage of population, nothing about rape, imprisonment, or torture, nothing about aftermath, etc…
There were a couple back to back mass murders in my city a while back. One family had six people killed, the other had seven. The latter family clearly suffered more.
RF, who your people fought? Jews were about 2% of Russian population and according to some people on this blog, Jews are trying to avoid combat. So who defeated you?
“A majority of Russians did not fight against the Bolsheviks, but against the White forces (often consisting of professional army unites)”
This sweeping generalization is at least doubtful and most likely incorrect. The situation was very complicated. The errors of White authorities and tiredness of war of the rest of population predetermined the outcome. The peasantry did not take any side decisively. It would be correct to say that it was peasantry, the strongest and the most inert force in Russia those days (and most feared by Bolsheviks who successfully conned it for a while by their Land Decree – stolen by Bolsheviks from the Socialist Revolutionaries), whose activity or inactivity was the most important factor then. Again, read the first chapters of the Black Book of Communism, it is very well and concisely explained there. The sad irony is that when the peasantry finally woke up, the Civil War as a more or less organized war between regular bodies of troops was over – and Bolsheviks suppressed those thousands uprisings one by one. If Wrangel held Crimea a little bit longer – just for a year, then the outcome could be very different. If Kronshtadt Uprising happened a week later – when the ice melt, the Bolshevik capital would face big guns of the Baltic fleet and unassailable island of Kronshtadt.
“RF, who your people fought? Jews were about 2% of Russian population and according to some people on this blog, Jews are trying to avoid combat. So who defeated you?”
You will get some hints from the incoming chapters dealing with the Civil War
Sorry for all the repeat posts. Server wasn’t taking them. Please delete if you can, editor.
Hitler’s Lebensraum policy was mainly directed at the Soviet Union. He was especially interested in the Ukraine where he planned to develop a German colony.“The least of our stable-lads will be superior to any native.” Hitler intended to force Norwegians, Swedes and Danes to move to these territories in the East.
Nazi racial ideology cast the Soviet Union as populated by “Untermanschen” ethnic Slavs ruled by their “Jewish Bolshevik” masters. It was Nazi stated policy to kill, deport, or enslave the Russian and other Slavic populations and repopulate the land with Germanic peoples.
The Germans were no Saints.
Hitler cared about Germans. The leader of Russian didn’t care about Russians. Nor, seemingly, does the current one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gat-hrgeajQ&feature=related
Stan,
I didn’t mean that Russia’s suffering is more important than Germany‘s, or Hitler was worse than Stalin, not at all. Stalin should have evacuated the Leningrad civilians—so he’s more responsible. But the two of these men were definitely capable of waisting millions of civilians without a second thought.
Maybe that’s what it takes to be a great commander. I doubt it.