I want to thank commentators for pointing out errors in my review of Band of Brothers. Watching the sequence again I can see that it was Webster who shouted out at the surrendering German troops. And sure enough there are the different types of uniforms on the camp inmates, as John Orloff notes. Also I did not realize that Liebgott was in fact Catholic or that Tom Hanks is partly Jewish (actually I still don’t realize that Hanks is Jewish). One part of the camp scene in which an error occurs is especially important because a prisoner explains what the camp is and who the prisoners are. The exchange is as follows:
(Liebgott interprets.)
Winters: “Will you ask him what kind of camp this is? Why are they here?”
Prisoner: “It is a work camp for Unerwuenscht.”
Liebgott cannot translate the final word.
Winters: “Criminals?”
Prisoner: “No. Doctors, clerks, musicians, taylors, farmers, intellectuals, . . . Jews, Jews, Jews . . . Poles, Gypsies.”
My review correctly quoted the prisoner as identifying the camp as a work camp. However, where the prisoner comes to describe ethnicity and nationality my review omits his mention of Poles, though I do include Gypsies in quoting him. The omission does not affect my argument because Jews are clearly emphasized, more so in the literal transcript above than in my review. Nevertheless this and other errors are embarrassing.
I shall request that the errors be marked as such in the text and the true version stated. (The errors should not be removed because that would confuse future readers of the commentaries.)
My embarrassment at having made these errors is mitigated by their marginality to my thesis concerning the ninth episode of Band of Brothers. None of my critics denies that Band of Brothers:
- Effectively claims America’s sacrifice in the War for the Jews.
- In doing so distorts the reality of the labour camp liberated by the 101st Division; and
- Fails to portray the G.I.’s liking for the German people.
In response to John Orloff, thanks for taking the trouble to point out those errors in my review. I shall correct them in the text. I was wrong in my suggestion that you are Jewish. You are right on the mix up of Webster and Liebgott. In fact the words of abuse directed at the German troops were not overly sophisticated, as I stated, but well matched to the speaker’s Harvard education. It is entirely appropriate for such a person to level the accusation: “You ignorant, servile scum!” Nice work.
I should add that I am willing to believe that you were given complete independence in writing the episode. In which case that makes you answerable to the criticisms I make, such as:
- The inmate describing the camp inmates as “Jews, Jews, Jews . . . Poles, Gypsies”. Why not: “Russians, Poles, homosexuals”?
- Near the end of the episode a frame shows the words: “These camps were part of the Nazi attempt to effect the ‘Final Solution’ to the ‘Jewish Question’.” Did you write that? What about the other nationalities?
- And what about the next frame? “Between 1942 and 1945 five million ethnic minorities and six million Jews were murdered — many of them in the camps.” I would like to read your defense of this misleading statement, which implies that work camps scattered around Germany played a significant role in genocide. The statement blurs the distinction between work and extermination camps. Also the frame reinforces the impression of the previous one, that the camps were part of the Nazi genocide of the Jewish people, leaving the other categories of victims as good as unwitnessed. How can you live with that? Don’t you think that Hollywood writers have some responsibility to the truth?
- Those two closing frames drive home the episode’s accusation against the townspeople that they knew of the camp. This parallels a serious accusation against Germans of the WWII period most infamously made by Daniel Goldhagen in his 1995 book Hitler’s Willing Executioners: Ordinary Germans and the Holocaust. If it was a work camp, as briefly stated by the prisoner, then where was the crime in knowing about it? Connivance in an atrocity could only be construed if the camp was a place of mass murder over many months or years as your captions allege – not for a brief period before Easy Company arrived. I realize that Band of Brothers necessarily has fictional elements, for example turning the Catholic Liebgott into a passionate Jew for dramatic effect. But that is no excuse for joining in the defamation of an entire people. From the perspective of Easy Company, which formed the perspective of the miniseries, the entire Jewish theme could have been omitted as it was in Ambrose’s book or treated lightly or treated more heavily but as a crime of the Nazi regime. The libel against the Germans and putting Jewish victims ahead of other ethnic groups was gratuitous.
- There are many other criticisms I make of “Why We Fight”. For example, if it was necessary to emphasize one category of victim, why not choose the POWs or the Gypsies? Why must it always be the Jews?
- This points to the great selectivity in choosing scenes and themes from the book. Instead of the half page on the camp you could have emphasized the longer section in which the G.I.s praise the Germans and begin to overcome their wartime indoctrinated hatred. Yes, you put in that vigorous sex scene. Beautiful young lady. But what about developing the wife of the German general into a noble character, or portray Germans going to church and being ordinary people, or report that wonderful scene in the book in which the hardened G.I. is struck by the old lady’s resemblance to his grandmother and is moved to help her? Webster could have been shown writing that letter home where this arch German-hater admits Germans’ many fine traits. If you really were independent and writing for a production of generally high quality, why did you follow such a hackneyed formula that happened to coincide with the ethnic interests of your employers?
Your reply to my review also makes some errors. Nowhere did I theorize or claim or suggest that Mr. Spielberg “forced” you to write anything. I wrote that he chose you. And as you say, you take full responsibility for the content of that episode. You also point out that if one looks closely the camp inmates are not all wearing yellow stars. Then why did you have the prisoner claim that the camp consisted of “Jews, Jews, Jews, . . . Poles, Gypsies”? You cannot have it both ways Mr. Orloff.
Try to imagine what would have happened if you had written a different episode, though with the same title. Imagine if you had grown up in an alternate universe where Russian victimhood in WWII was emphasized in film because Hollywood was owned and run by Russian-Americans; an America in which the figure of 20 million Russians killed was what every schoolchild knew about, where the sacrifice of the Red Army before Leningrad and in the great envelopments in autumn 1941 was common knowledge, where the Eastern European camps where millions of Russian POWs were starved to death and their officers murdered were preserved as shrines, and where Russian Holocaust memorials were commonplace in American cities and even sponsored by the federal government on the National Mall in Washington, DC. And imagine that as one who had absorbed these images from childhood, and been immersed in elite Russian-American culture, you had written the camp inmate answering “Russians, Russians, Russians . . . Gypsies, Poles” and ignored the Jewish tragedy as a detail of history. And imagine that by some inexplicable quirk – all too typical of alternate universes – you submitted your screenplay in the real world, where Russians do not run Hollywood. Do you really believe that Messrs. Spielberg and Hanks would have produced your work, or do you think they would have suggested a few changes?
More to the point, Mr. Orloff, would you have accepted those changes or would you have insisted on your integrity as an independent writer? If the latter, please answer the main criticisms contained in my review.
Yours, Charles Dodgson
Facing the Future as a Minority
As long as you are going in depth on this…
When Liebgott talks about his dreams and plans for when he gets home, he doesn’t just describe his potential wife as a ‘nice Jewish girl.’ He adds a bit of a colorful description about her physique. It struck me as interesting at the time because in Spielberg’s movie ‘Saving Private Ryan’ there’s a similar scene where a US soldier, played by Edward Burns, talks in similar terms about the exact same physical attributes of another woman, and his memory of that. Was that just a coincidence?
You did fine work. I doubt he will respond.
Orloff’s claim that he had complete freedom to write the episode without input from Spielberg is laughable. He may have had the complete freedom to write whatever he wanted but only within the parameters laid down by Spielberg and the others. When one person has veto power over another person’s work, as Spielberg did over Orloff’s, it is not necessary to provide notes because the underling already knows what is expected.
1. Jewish or not, John Orloff is not altogether disinterested in the jewish question.
2. I’d be careful about making unsubstantiated assertions about anybody’s “jewishness” based on appearance alone. Neither would I hesitate to investigate somebody’s ancestry based upon their appearance.
http://www.life.com/image/2262934
2nd Annual Jewish Image Awards in Film and Television
Writer John Orloff accepted for Best TV film, ‘Band of Brothers’, from Sam Rubin at the 2nd Annual Jewish Image Awards in Film and Television at the Four Seasons Hotel in Los Angeles, Ca. Tuesday, Sept. 24, 2002. Photo by Kevin Winter/ImageDirect.
Photo: Kevin Winter/Getty Images
Sep 24, 2002
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http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20042379,00.html
A Mighty Heart (2007)
A Daniel Pearl Story
Reviewed by Lisa Schwarzbaum | Jun 13, 2007
“When Mariane turns for support to Danny’s boss, John Bussey (Half Nelson’s fine Denis O’Hare), to friend and colleague Asra Nomani (Bend It Like Beckham’s Archie Panjabi), and to Danny’s parents (allowing screenwriter John Orloff to emphasize Danny’s pride in his Jewish heritage), her needs dwarf the value of their compassion.”
————-
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/31/movies/MoviesFeatures/31moer.html
July 31, 2005
The Race to Put Daniel Pearl on Screen
By CHRISTIAN MOERK
“Representatives for the writer and the studio declined to comment – as did Ms. Pearl, in an e-mail message. But Warner executives, who agreed to speak anonymously to minimize disruption of the filmmaking process, said the studio was relatively slow in assigning a writer because of the project’s delicacy. Mr. Orloff, they noted, had experience with demanding filmmakers, most recently working on a project about Julius Caesar for Michael Mann and Tom Hanks. With Ms. Pearl’s close involvement, they said, his touch will be brought to bear on a script that is expected to track closely with her book, focusing heavily on the young couple’s love story, and the wife’s vigil – in the company of characters like a friendly Pakistani intelligence agent and a hunkered-down Wall Street Journal editor – for a husband who never returned. Much of the film takes place in the house where Ms. Pearl waits.”
Let’s not forget this is about fiction. It maybe propaganda, and it is propaganda, but it is also fiction & acting.
Acting. drama, theater. :)
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Would John Orloff make a movie with Mel Gibson?
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Mr. Dodgson,
I think it is important not to assign personal motives as it’s simply not provable. The difference between the book and the screenplay speak for itself! The implications are clear enough.
I don’t recall this exchange from your original article, but it speaks volumes.
Winters: “Will you ask him what kind of camp this is? Why are they here?”
Prisoner: “It is a work camp for Unerwuenscht.”
Winters: “Criminals?”
Prisoner: “No. Doctors, clerks, musicians, taylors, farmers, intellectuals, . . . Jews, Jews, Jews . . . Poles, Gypsies.”
Unerwuenscht translates into English as unwanted, undesirable. This is a classic idea of the era, that Germany became a nation of bullies, who had no place for doctors, musicians, intellectuals . . . the idea being that Jews represent these proffesions, throw in a “tailor” just in case the less witted will get it.
“Orloff’s claim that he had complete freedom to write the episode without input from Spielberg is laughable.”
I don’t think it needs to be taken that far to be honest. There’ll be a filtering system at work here the same way there is with politicians. Anyone “unsuitable” gets filtered out early on. Some of those who make it through will be consciously anti-white or venal but some will be fully conditioned multicult idealists.
What is said about extermination camps is indeed post hoc rationalizing propaganda. But even though they might have spent most of the war with no idea why they were fighting in Europe it is accurate to say that the highly publicized discovery of the concentration camps did have an effect on US soldiers very like shown in episode 9 of BoB. I don’t think there is any way to talk about what happened to Jews in WW2 without being put in the position of defending the worst crimes of the Nazis. I would like Nationalists to stop talking about what they regard as the unfair treatment of WW2 Germans in the media, it’s not doing us any good.
If a white nationalist had taken power in the US during the 30s there would still have been powerful realist reasons for the US to prevent Nazi Germany becoming a superpower. It is quite possible that a white nationalist US would have ended up at war with Germany. Liberal democracies go to war for the same reasons as ethnostates – offensive realist ones.
Nationalists should focus on the media’s unfair over emphasis of Jewish suffering during WW2 while downplaying the atrocities suffered by non-Jews.
Orloff claims he had a free hand. If he shows up in this article’s comments, I would like to know who gave the final approval of the script if not Speilberg or Hanks
LEW, It’s true the media over emphasize Jewish suffering during WW2 but it really hurts Nationalist credibility when they try to correct that, whether by by direct denial or relativistic arguments about non Jewish suffering, it’s perceived as going to bat for the Nazis. Nazi Germany was an enemy country, most white people don’t think Nazi equals white. But if an explicitly White movement gets into showing the Nazis were not as bad to Jews as we are told then that tars them as crypto-Nazis in the eyes of ordinary whites. WW2 is a ground of the anti- white forces’ choosing – Nationalists ought to have realized that by now.
Modern arguments about demographic reality are much more effective.
Yes, the battleground should be TODAY. And if WWII is brought up, then ask why some group, jews in particular, should be let do whatever they want because of what may or may not have happened almost 70 years ago. Or does letting jews do this mean that E. Europeans should be allowed to openly spit in the face of organized judaism? After all, it was jewish communists who murdered over 100 million people, specifically E. Europeans, in the 20th century? That this is true isn’t even arguable.
As for “Mr. Orloff”. Many people have gotten a break in Hollywood simply because people thought they were jewish because of name and appearance (Tom Snyder, David Letterman, Jay Thomas and lots more) . Once these interlopers established themselves as boot-licking lackeys, they were allowed to move upward. That might be the case with Mr. Orloff, if the person posting here really is him. If it is, he must not be too busy trying to earn a living writing. Then again, the meager skills he’s demonstrated are on par with most of the top writers Hollywood employs these days. There isn’t a more talentless, thieving bunch of hacks on the planet than what now passes for writers in Hollywood. In Mr. Orloff’s case, if his grandparents were entrenched in showbiz, then there’s little doubt nepotism played a part in his parent’s getting work, him getting inside the system. Talent and honesty surely played little or no part in his career climb.
Anyone who knows anything about Steven Spielberg is fully aware that he is the final arbiter on all aspects of projects, and NO writer is given free reign, jewish or not, period.
Well put, Someday. Don’t forget, 65 years ago, just about every white American hated Hitler and the Nazis. That’s not propaganda, that’s the truth.
Actually, it’s far short of the truth; almost a reversal of the truth. It would probably be just about as accurate to claim that every White American now hates Osama bin Laden. Before the machinations of FDR dragged America into the fight, isolationist sentiment was strong. Roosevelt was elected on a promise to keep America out of the war. Hitler was popular in America and even Time magazine’s Man of the Year in 1939, not surprising perhaps because German Americans were America’s largest ethnic minority. Shortly thereafter, the German-American Bund, an American national socialist organization, was able to muster 20,000 Whites to an anti-war rally in New York City. To claim that American Whites went to Europe out of a sincere hatred of Hitler or Nazis rather than a) a lemming-like need to conform to social norms, and b) to avoid going to jail for draft evasion, or to avoid being put into a concentration camp, as many German-American and Italian-American citizens later were, is to falsify history.
Jim and Someday, good points. There will never be more than a tiny percentage of Whites that want to support Nazism and that is a good thing. What most of us want is what called White Republic. We want the freedom of our forefathers. We don’t want to goosestep all over the place (and in fact, most Germans got sick of it before long).
And of course, most White Americans thought Hitler was a little crazy, along with Mussolini. The people that rushed to sign up for duty after Pearl Harbor were not “lemmings” as some have claimed, nor did they act out of animal fear of jail time. No one familiar with that generation could make such a statement. It is true that most of the real hatred was reserved for the Japanese. The Germans were almost viewed as belligerent cousins that had gotten full of themselves and needed to be corrected. Right or wrong, that is how they were viewed at the time. They weren’t hated as a group, but Nazis and Hitler were thought of as trouble. The fact that FDR manipulated the US in many ways in no way mitigates that.
And 65 years ago was 1945 and yes, by that period, most Americans after fighting a war against Nazi Germany, had a hostility to Hitler and Nazis.
By the way, the fact that Hitler was made Time Man of the Year does not mean he was popular in the US! They made Ayatullah Khomeini Man of the Year in 1979. They often pick people for their impact, regardless of their popularity.
We stand for individualism, freedom, rule of law and the kind of culture that seems to thrive only certain White populations, not fascism.
I don’t think it looks bad at all. I never learned in school anything about the Bolsheviks, Stalin, Lenin, the NKVD, the USSR. I never learned about what happened to the Ukraine or Poland with the germans/russians.
Just a year ago I was looking through a book of WW2 pictures I found in the library and was shocked to see photos of children in a concentration camp—blonde white non-jewish children. I was like “What is this???” (I think it was the Russians who did that)
So you know…..they have rewritten history in the fact that WW2 is now synonymous with Jewish suffering and NO ONE in public schools today learns about the other stuff that was going on in the Eastern European Countries.
In fact, I think ALL Americans should be demanding to learn about WW2 and how it affected other peoples.
That would be a great movement, get schools to teach about ALL the suffering of WWII. I remember learning my senior year in high school that Stalin had killed something like 20 million people, but everyone was so stuck on Jewish suffering that they didn’t want to hear it at the time. However, I’ve noticed the History channel has run some good documentaries on all the people Stalin killed. Stalin was without a doubt, a sociopath.
The American soldier on the ground must have been dense not realize that the condition of the camps was due to the American dropping bombs from the sky.
I’ll agree that we are better off without any “Nazi” smittin’ kittins. But keep in mind that that these outlandish claims are something young German children are brought up to believe. And that is sick.
I just did some research and found out the term “Der weiße Engel ” was a phrase used by inmates at Auschwitz to describe Josef Mengele. This was Dr. Mengele’s nickname. It means the White Angel, due to the white lab coat he would wear. He was the infamous Nazi doctor that conducted experiments on human subjects in concentration camps.
This should tell you all you need to know about someone that would use such a vile image as their nickname. It has nothing to do with White culture or preserving Western Civilization. It’s purely sociopathic. Or, perhaps an agent of $PLC trying to damage the reputation of TOO.
Hannukah boy: ‘I just did some research and found out …”
LOL. That was some real detective work from a true mental giant. I stand in awe of your mad skillz, Shlomo, and those hook-nosed parasites you represent. How nice of the ADL (or whatever Jew organization you are from) to send somebody by to protect TOO’s “reputation”. Yes, very thoughtful indeed.
Sorry, Der weiße Engel, it just never occurred to me you were this sociopathic. Seek help. No one normal identifies with Josef Mengele. You are not an advocate for White culture or Western Civilization, you don’t even like most Whites. You describe them as lemmings and routinely denigrate WWII veterans. You don’t like American civilization or the rule of law or free markets or anything else patriotic Americans value. Ultimately, you are just a creep.
Hmm. Textual analysis reveals a lot of similarity between the writing styles of “Jeff Maylor” and Tim Wise, who is known to hang around this forum. I’m starting to think there’s more than a little truth to the rumor that Timmy Wise and “Jeff Maylor” are the same guy. He clearly fantasizes about killing Nazis and wishes he could have been in on the fun in WWII with the rest of those brave White “patriots” in America’s Stupidest Generation. What next, Timmy? Are you going to lead a cheer for the Dresden firebombing?
Stop trying to turn this site into your own personal blog, Timmy. It’s not appreciated.
Is Orloff claiming he’s not jewish?
Der weiße Engel said:
“Actually, it’s far short of the truth; almost a reversal of the truth. It would probably be just about as accurate to claim that every White American now hates Osama bin Laden. Before the machinations of FDR dragged America into the fight, isolationist sentiment was strong. Roosevelt was elected on a promise to keep America out of the war. Hitler was popular in America and even Time magazine’s Man of the Year in 1939…”
I said 65 years. 2010-65 years=1945, the end of the war, not the beginning. Almost every white person (the vast majority anyway) in America hated Hitler. I was born in the 1950′s and remember this quite well. Regardless of what people’s politics were, Hitler was our enemy in WW2, and WW2 killed 400,000 Americans. (Wounded 600,000 more.) People hate their enemies. I’m not jumping on a band wagon here, just stating the obvious.
I do believe, now, that WW2 could’ve/should’ve been avoided, and that Hitler was nothing compared to Stalin. Trying to resurrect the Nazis, however, can do nothing but harm modern white interests.
Ayatollah Khomeini was TIME’s man of the year in 1979. Most significant does not equate most popular.
p.s. – I take that back – the Hell’s Angels and Charlie Manson liked Hitler after the war.
‘Trying to resurrect the Nazis, however, can do nothing but harm modern white interests.’
Absolutely. It’s a hopeless enterprise. Yes the extent of Nazi crimes have been exaggerated for political reasons. Nevertheless, they did commit a lot of crimes – including against innocent white people.
As long as advocates for the ethnic interests of white people are perceived to be sympathetic to the Nazis they will never garner mainstream acceptance. We need to move on from this obsession with WWII.
Of course, contemporary depictions of WWII are replete with Jewish-Hollywood propagandizing. It is, however, facile to jump to the opposite conclusion that the Nazis have been mischaracterised in every respect.
Jim: “Almost every white person (the vast majority anyway) in America hated Hitler. I was born in the 1950′s and remember this quite well.”
Well Jim, I was also born in the 1950s and DON’T remember it that way. In fact, I don’t remember anyone even mentioning Hitler or Nazis at all. But then, unlike you, I don’t claim to have a direct knowledge of almost every White person’s opinions. In gauging the popular sentiment of that time, I can only go by indirect facts, like the 20,000 American national socialists at the anti-war rally I mentioned; or the more than 12,000 German and Italian Americans who were put in concentration camps; or the nearly one million members of the isolationist America First Committee, which included US senators and congressmen, and was headed up by American hero Charles Lindbergh.
In any event, I think you have bought into a Jewish vision of America when you try to depict Whites of that time as filled with hate for Hitler and Nazis. I think maybe you’ve watched “Inglorious Basterds” a few too many times.
Glen: “As long as advocates for the ethnic interests of white people are perceived to be sympathetic to the Nazis they will never garner mainstream acceptance.”
Then you may as well face the fact that you will never garner mainstream acceptance, because how you are perceived is entirely beyond your control. Running from the label Nazi, that Jews and sanctimonious White twits will always place on you anyway, only makes you look weak, not innocent.
I was born during the 50s and grew up during the 60s and 70s. Hitler and the Nazis were rarely to never a topic for discussion or media focus in the popular culture until 1977 when the brouhaha supplied by the ACLU representing Frank Collin and his Neo Nazi party’s desire to march on Skokie which was allegedly filled with a bunch of Jewish Holocaust survivors. By the time the whole world found out that Frankie himself may have had other motives than an ardent love for socialism (his father, Max Simon Collin, had changed his name from COHEN). In fact, “Der Fuhrer Part D’oh!” himself was a Jew!
However, even though the more interesting aspects of “Collin”‘s biography were quietly dropped, his Nazimania infected the media and Hollyweird, because a flood of Holocaust movies and articles and specials came out and they only got more numerous through the years.
I don’t think our media moguls are aware that saturation level has been exceeded with the public where any interest in refighting WWII and those evil Nazis are concerned. I think the schlocky Jewish pornfest, “Inglorious Basterds” reflected that. I think it was produced, because Holocaust Movies were finally losing money and they needed to bring out the shock and awe factor as they stepped up their schlepping.
The most amusing part of all this is that the weirdest, most unexpected (White Gentile) people are engaging in Reductio ad Hitlerum ad Nauseum ad Infinitum arguments and vying with the Jews to invoke Godwin’s Law of Nazi Analogies to shut opposition up. I don’t know about anyone else, but I was entertained by Sarah Palin’s complaints about the Left and their lackey media manufacturing a blood libel against conservative Tea Party members over Giffords’ AZ shooting. Not to mention the inevitable Jewish reaction. WTG, Sarah!
Just to be clear, there is no need for anyone concerned with White culture and Western Civilization to “run” from the Nazi label. We have nothing to do with Nazism period. The Nazis were not advocates for things that Whites in the West have always valued, such as:
1. Rule of Law
2. Individual Freedom
3. Representative Government
Nazism failed on all three points. Nazism is a variant of collectivism, it is literally National Socialism. And socialism is a destructive policy (see North and South Korea for a real life experiment in capitalism vs socialism).
There was a saying in Germany that Nazis were like beefsteaks – brown on the outside but red on the inside – meaning they were Marxists on the inside.
So we have no need to “run” from the Nazi label, because we are not associated with it. We just need to point out how silly running to embrace Nazism is on the part of the few sociopaths who yearn for it.
“Oh no”, says the sanctimonious twit, “there’s no need to run from the Nazi label”, as he runs from the Nazi label. So White racial advocacy has nothing to do with Nazism?? What are you smoking, boy? That may play with your fellow twits here on the forum, Shlomo, but out in the real world, they’re still gonna call you a Nazi, and the vast majority of people will still believe them. You may as well enjoy it.
Again, just to be clear, we all know that Hollywood and the Media have created a stereotype of anyone that has a legitimate concern with White people and White culture. They have deliberately tried to promote the ridiculous idea that Nazism is the only expression of White culture, when of course European culture is ancient and has had many manifestations. Nazism is a variant of Marxism in the opinion of many and I think that position has a lot of truth.
The only people trying to mix Nazism with this website are the enemies of White people. Please, don’t anyone be suckered into this obvious bait intended to discredit our concerns.
Praxis, are you trying to discredit this site? If so, you should really try a bit harder. Your arguments are transparent. And you should learn that words have meanings.
A republic is a form of government in which the people or some portion thereof retain supreme control over the government. It is also governed by objective law that is not subject to the whim of a leader, bureaucrat, or dictator. There are regular elections where the people can change leadership in an orderly fashion. And there is an independent judiciary that secures the people’s freedom. Nazism fails on every single point.
In fact, the US was for many generations a White republic. There was nothing “Nazi-like” about the United States during that period. The fact that enemies of freedom and Whites want to smear White advocacy by suggesting it is the same thing as Nazism are of course dealing in rank propaganda – as you are. If a Jewish colleague feels that an ethnostate state for Whites is a form of Nazism, than that is problem of education, not of fact. After all, Israel itself is an ethnostate.
The freedom we’ve had did not cause our problems by the way – it was uncontrolled immigration that caused our problem.
For whatever reason, you are more interested in promoting Nazism than promoting the interests of Whites. As I said before, Nazism is just a variant of Marxism.
It’s the greatest possible folly to hold out the Third Reich as the paradigm of what we are trying to achieve in promoting the group interests of European-derived peoples.
White advocacy does NOT have to equal totalitarianism. Why not something along the lines of the White Australia Policy? There you had a strong white national identity alongside all of the other great achievements of Western civilisation like parliamentary democracy, rule of law, individual liberty etc.
To allow an ill-fated twelve year political experiment to somehow DEFINE what it means to advocate for white group interests shows an incredibly narrow historical perspective. The most sophisticated analyses of the Jewish Question and race do not come from the Third Reich.
Unfortunately, going by some of the comments here, it looks like some still harbour an adolescent fixation with the Third Reich, and how great they think Hitler was etc.
As Kevin MacDonald has pointed out many times, this is a royal road to nowhere and EXACTLY how our opponents want us to define ourselves and our beliefs, so we can be summarily dismissed as crazy extremists.
Glen: ” … so we can be summarily dismissed as crazy extremists.”
You are already dismissed as crazy extremists; even KMD is dismissed. And consider this: You would look even crazier if all people with more extreme beliefs than yours were made to disappear, as you so stupidly wish. As a moderate, you should thank your lucky stars there are more extreme people than yourself, since it is only by contrasting your own milque-toast, doomed-from-the-start moderation with them that you can establish your own virtue – at least, in your own eyes. In the eyes of your opponents, you’ll always be at least as bad as Hitler, and maybe worse, so long as you are bold enough even to claim that the White race exists and has interests. They will be successful in painting you that way, too, primarily because people with that point of view control the media, and you have no realistic prospect of taking it away from them in the foreseeable future. So giving ground won’t save you. Until you abandon White racial advocacy in any form, Jews and their lickspittles will continue their attacks at full strength.
Tim Wise: “… Nazism is just a variant of Marxism.”
That’s like saying racism is just a variant of anti-racism, or that Zionism is just a variant of anti-Semitism. It’s absolute gibberish.
Timmy, if you ever stop flooding the place with brilliant insights like this, the collective IQ around here is going to go up at least 20 points.
So what are you saying? That the best way forward is for us all to become strutting Neo-Nazi jackbooted skinheads screaming ‘Sieg Heil!’ and braying for Holocaust II?
Of course Jews will continue their attacks at full strength no matter how their enemies position themselves. But are you seriously arguing that we should just give in to the stereotype and make their job even easier?
You clearly detest the traditional political institutions of the West. So what’s your vision of a post-ZOG polity? Let’s hear it.
Nazism is National Socialism.
This is not hard to grasp. Nazism is an extreme form of collectivism that centers around a particular ethnicity collectively owning resources, effectively banning private property, and establishing a dictatorship. Communism does the exact same thing, except it is trans-national and trans-ethnic. It was only the old Marxist that wanted to maintain there was some fundamental difference between Hitler and Stalin. Everyone can grasp the similarity between true Fascism and Communism. In effect, Communism and Nazism were two rival gangs fighting for dictatorship.
As I stated before, everyone knew that Nazis were like beefsteaks – brown on the outside but red on the inside.
The greatest nation that was ever on earth, the original American republic, did not primarily define itself as “against Jews” or anyone else. It was originally understood by most that these rights could only really apply to Whites due to biological factors, but the goal was to help Whites achieve their rights, not to enslave Whites in a Fascist dictatorship.
No one that names himself after Josef Mengele and spouts pro-Nazi garbage is any friend of Whites or anyone else. Go away, insect.
By the way, I hope it is becoming obvious that the handful of cretins that spout Neo-Nazi Skinhead nonsense here are not at all trying to help this website or Whites in general.
Note the preoccupation they have with deliberately picking images and slogans that would horrify most Americans. Note how furious they become at any persuasive argument that might be effective at influencing a wider White audience. Note the desire to undermine the high minded intellectual tone of this website with crude ethnic slurs. They are not trying to help Whites.
Der weiße Engel and Praxis are particularly bad offenders. I don’t think they are what they claim to be.
Glen: “So what are you saying? That the best way forward is for us all to become strutting Neo-Nazi jackbooted skinheads screaming ‘Sieg Heil!’ and braying for Holocaust II?”
I don’t really care what you and your pal Timmy do. We can be sure it’ll be worthless, whatever it is.
Glen: “Of course Jews will continue their attacks at full strength no matter how their enemies position themselves. But are you seriously arguing that we should just give in to the stereotype and make their job even easier?”
Your cowering in the face of being called a name is what makes their job easy; and collectively, it’s what makes a mass movement impossible.
Glen: “You clearly detest the traditional political institutions of the West. So what’s your vision of a post-ZOG polity? Let’s hear it.”
After the collapse of technological civilization, I’m sure whatever emerges naturally will be just fine; and if it isn’t, then people will change it.
Tim Wise: “The greatest nation that was ever on earth, the original American republic, did not primarily define itself as “against Jews” or anyone else.”
Ah yes, White supremacy, negro chattel slavery, and the genocide of aboriginals … those were the good old days.
Tim Wise: “Note how furious they become at any persuasive argument that might be effective at influencing a wider White audience.”
You haven’t made any such arguments, and that’s because you’re a coward who dumps in his pants and runs away whenever he’s called a Nazi. Or at least, and not surprisingly for a Jew, that’s the course of action you’re recommending White advocates follow. The problem is they have followed it, and that’s why their arguments don’t matter, and wouldn’t influence very many people even if they were technically correct and had no flaws. Nobody wants to be associated with cowards who are afraid even to claim their forebears. The history of the White movement since WWII has been a 65-year-long downward spiral for that reason.
‘After the collapse of technological civilization, I’m sure whatever emerges naturally will be just fine; and if it isn’t, then people will change it.’
So if a repressive dictatorship emerges that’s just fine is it? Your vision (or rather non-vision) for the future sounds like anarcho-Chomskyan rubbish to me. How ironic for a proto-Nazi like you to be the unwitting disciple of a radical Jewish intellectual.
Please note, Der weiße Engel gave no serious response to any of the questions put to him about how to advance our interests. He showed a complete indifference to the question of how Whites should proceed to secure their rights and freedom. The topic does not interest him.
And note how he describes the early days of the American republic:
“Ah yes, White supremacy, negro chattel slavery, and the genocide of aboriginals … those were the good old days.”
A sarcastic smear against the founders of this country. Is this the way people who have an interest in White culture talk? This person is not who he claims to be.
Indeed. Troll alert.
Glen: “So if a repressive dictatorship emerges that’s just fine is it?”
The collapse of technological civilization would itself prevent a truly totalitarian regime. Totalitarianism is only possible at a relatively high technological level.
Tim Wise: “A sarcastic smear against the founders of this country.”
Sorry Timmy. It’s just the truth. The White supremacy and genocide that makes you crap your pants was an indispensable part of “the greatest nation that ever was”.
Now go clean yourself. You’re stinking the place up again.
‘The collapse of technological civilization would itself prevent a truly totalitarian regime. Totalitarianism is only possible at a relatively high technological level.’
And your reasons for forecasting the inevitable collapse of technological civilization are…?
Lenin managed to impose a totalitarian regime with 1917 technology, and Hitler with 1933 technology.
Does this mean we face technological retreat back to the pre WWI era? And this will presage the anarcho-syndicalist rebirth of white society? Sounds all very Rosa Luxemburg to me.
Again, everyone should note that Der weiße Engel (who takes his name from Josef Mengele the Nazi war criminal) is trying to bait everyone into making outrageously hateful statements about other races and groups.
Why?
Because he is trying to discredit this site and the concern for White culture. He wants to encourage ethnic slurs, Nazism, joking about the deaths of millions, etc., because this will make White Advocacy look bad.
Of course, White people are some of the nicest people on earth and certainly the most creative and productive. So why would we drag the name of our ancestors through the mud and pick a Nazi war criminal as an icon? Of course we wouldn’t.
Why not pick George Washington? Or Cicero? Or Isaac Newton? Or any of a thousand other well known White role models that did good for their race? Because Der weiße Engel and Praxis do not want positive images of White Empowerment, they want the movement associated with sociopathic images. Because they are trying to hurt us.
Get it?
Der Weibe Engle, I’m trying to take you at your word as to your sincerity on these issues, but it’s getting hard. I must say, it seems you grew up in very different 1950′s/60′s America than I did.
Part of the problem with the Nazis or the Klan is that they are emblematic of the white race’s failures, NOT our successes. The Nazis lost WW2. The South lost the Civil War.
Trying to resurrect the Nazis (in reality or perception) is like wanting to bring back the Edsel. It doesn’t matter that the Edsel was probably a better car than most people realized. It was a flop. It will be remembered for the next hundred years as a flop (by the auto industry, anyway.) Ford, to their benefit, forgot it and moved on.
I DON’T despise the Klan or the Nazis (though my thinking isn’t in line with theirs.) I agree that Hitler was a somewhat misunderstood figure in history. Yes, a scapegoat…someone who probably wanted to avoid war (with the allies) as much as anyone else.
As to Lindbergh, Churchill said good things about Hitler before the war, too, but after the war, Hitler’s legacy was etched in stone. Over time, those views may soften, but it will be a long time. A very long time. Try to be a Mustang, not an Edsel.
White Angel is one of the few on this blog who obviously hasn’t gotten his knowledge of history from Hollywood and other twisted sources. The rest of you ought to put 2 & 2 together and start to realize that if we’ve been lied to about the evils of European civilization then there’s more than a good chance we’ve been lied to about resent history. The degree of vilification is directly correlated to the threat the Big Jew feels/felt. So compare Hitler and Churchill. Who really won the war???? (For the mentally challenged…the Big Jews)
Helvena,
Well, this seems to be turning into another one of those famous Occidental Observer flame wars that I usually want nothing to do with, but this willing suspension of disbelief is getting a bit out of hand.
In reference to the case I was making: How on Earth does a country (like the US) suffer 400,000 deaths (in 4 short years) in a war with the axis powers and come away thinking that Hitler wasn’t that all that bad??? I’m not even saying white America’s perception of Hitler was correct, or at least based on complete information, but white Christian America, by and large, hated Hitler, or the memory of him, after WW2. Asking people not to believe this is silly.
Hitler admired the Brits and didn’t want war with them in 1938, but do you think rank and file germans still admired the Brits after Dresden? No. Because people hate enemies. Jesus, look at all the animosity that exists on this board between supposedly like minded people. Why is it so hard to imagine that white Christian America hated Hitler and the Nazis after WW2? Did manipulative jews capitalize on this and turn it into self serving agenda and policy? Of course, but that doesn’t alter the truth.
Good luck to all those who want to turn Hitler into the white world’s hero, because you’re gonna need it.
Jim: “How on Earth does a country (like the US) suffer 400,000 deaths (in 4 short years) in a war with the axis powers and come away thinking that Hitler wasn’t that all that bad???”
Let’s try to keep this in perspective. Less than half of that 400,000 were combat deaths in the European theatre, and so you’re talking about only a minute fraction of one percent of the total American population of that time, less than 2 per thousand. That means that most people probably didn’t personally know anyone who was killed by the Nazis, and probably didn’t even know anyone who was wounded.
It’s not easy to have an honest discussion when one side keeps mischaracterizing what the other side has said. I haven’t said that nobody in the US hated Hitler, merely that Hitler-hate and Nazi-hate wasn’t a big part of the average American’s life. Maybe they were in your circle of friends and relatives. For my part, I don’t remember anyone even mentioning those topics. As best as I can recall, the earliest encounter I had with WWII propaganda was when I saw the TV series “Combat!”, which debuted in 1962, and even that doesn’t fit very comfortably into the category you are trying to put it. I seem to remember that it frequently struck a reconciliatory tone, not demonizing the opposing side at all. No, I think it is far from true that the average American in the post-war years hated Hitler. Even though if they were polled on the issue, they might have expressed a negative opinion of him, they probably didn’t really think about him much at all, any more than the average American today goes around thinking about Osama bin Laden all the time. The sort of naturally-occurring solidarity expressed by the German-American Bund, or the America First Committee, wouldn’t have just vanished. Most of the Hitler- and Nazi-hate that we see all around us today had yet to come into existence, and only fully got underway after the neo-Bolshevik Jewish media takeover of the 1960s.
Helvena, almost everyone on this blog is a big fan of European history. How can you praise someone who, when he needs a European hero to name himself after, chooses Josef Mengele, a Nazi war criminal? Why not Frederick the Great? Why not Mozart? Why not any number of other great European statesmen? Why deliberately pick an image that committed crimes and is viewed by the public with horror?
Der Weibe Engle has absolutely no program for advancing the White cause, and refuses to even address the issue. His one suggestion? The total destruction of modern civilization and a return to the standard of living prevalent 300 years ago. That’s not even a serious suggestion. He is pulling everyone’s leg.
Step back and think about it. His “solution” is to destroy all technology developed since the 1700s and hold up Josef Mengele as a poster boy of White culture. How insulting.
He is absolutely not trying to help defend White culture. He is promoting the worst Hollywood caricature of it. He is attempting to steer this discussion in a direction that will hurt White interests. He is not honest.
And just to be clear, Hitler was not a villain on the scale of Stalin. And Churchill was not quite the saintly figure we’ve been presented. But Hitler and the Nazis embraced the idea of dictatorship explicitly, and dictatorship is a violation of the best traditions of European culture. It is really an idea imported from the Orient. I understand Germany’s culture was under siege, and that Wiemar represented a terribly decadent period, much of it promoted by Jews.
But going forward, dictatorship is not the way to go, nor is socialism.
Angel’s program for advancing European interests is the truth. And I think he’s got you pegged.
Glen: “And your reasons for forecasting the inevitable collapse of technological civilization are…? ”
I have covered this topic many times before, and have just discussed it at length in this comment and others in the Soros thread here:
http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2010/11/glenn-beck-on-george-soros-2/#comment-18060
My basic idea is that the age of 1930s-style political mass movements is past, and it is no use trying to revive it, just as one can’t expect anachronistically to revive the America of 1776. Both were manifestations of White collectivism appropriate to their own respective technological contexts, but can’t be replicated outside of that environment. In our present and immediate future, the technological context will provide for revolutionary action ONLY using much smaller groups of people; perhaps even one man might be enough. The sorts of techniques that are now beginning to become available – including especially such things as genetic engineering and nanotechnology – can be, and almost certainly at some point will be, used to take down technological civilization on a global basis. This may occur deliberately (think of Al-Qaeda as a model for the sort of disatisfied group which might have the means and motive for this), or could even occur by accident, as a result of a side effect or mishap. That it will eventually happen seems to me almost certain; and if that is granted, the only questions that remain to be resolved are a) whether this will happen before or after the natural categories of human races as we know them today have been destroyed and b) whether the system will be permanently crippled by these attacks or mishaps, or will be able to regenerate itself.
Glen: “Lenin managed to impose a totalitarian regime with 1917 technology, and Hitler with 1933 technology.”
http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2010/11/glenn-beck-on-george-soros-2/#comment-18212
Glen: “Does this mean we face technological retreat back to the pre WWI era? And this will presage the anarcho-syndicalist rebirth of white society? Sounds all very Rosa Luxemburg to me.”
I think of it as having more in common with the ideas of Mikhail Bakunin, q.v.:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikhail_Bakunin#Collectivist_anarchism
Although Bakunin didn’t clearly understand the impact of technological development (nobody of his time did), many of his ideas still seem to me to be sound, and readily adaptable for our purposes here. He adumbrated a kind of anti-Semitic, race-aware anarchism, based on a völkisch, peasant model.
A choice quote from Bakunin:
‘One can’t expect anachronistically to revive the America of 1776.’
This is an empty truism. Who has ever claimed we can, or that this is even desirable?
The point that you miss is that the institutions of the West are not frozen in time. It was part of the genius of their creators to establish institutions that are flexible enough to evolve and adapt to changing historical and technological circumstances.
Sure these institutions aren’t perfect but they are sure preferable to the apocalyptic ‘Lord of the Flies’ Haiti-like scenario you envision.
Sounds like you have more in common with those on the radical Left than the Right. Much of your ‘analysis’ sounds like a far-fetched dyspotian fantasy to me.
I bet you got REAL excited back in 1999 with the hysteria surrounding the ‘millenium bug’. The end is nigh! Here comes the apocalypse!
Just because Bakunin was an anti-Semite doesn’t make him a prophet. Anarchism is nihilism and you must be a nihilist to name yourself after Josef Mengele.
OK, Helvena, can you explain what Joseph Megele’s “program” is? Can you articulate it? All we’ve heard is destroy all technology developed in the last 300 years. That is your program?
Again, what Joseph Mengele is posting is a sham. He doesn’t mean any of it. At best it is a form of crude materialism, that is actually quite reminiscient of Marxist theory. Hmmm. Given his expressed interest in Nazism (National Socialism, a variant of Marxism) this makes sense.
At best he is advocating everyone sit around passively and wait for civilization to collapse and then replace it with the standard of living common in a 17th century village. Literally. That is not an exaggeration of his position. So you can see he is not serious, it’s a position he promotes that is empty. Why? Because he has no desire to promote White culture.
If he did, why would he go out of his way to pick White criminals as his poster boys, as opposed to the ocean of White heroes out there?
“Praxis, are you trying to discredit this site? If so, you should really try a bit harder. Your arguments are transparent. And you should learn that words have meanings.” – Jeff Maylor
Was the “transparency” of my argument why you or Dr. KMac pulled my post on or before before 7:05 p.m. PST 02 Dec 2010?
My point, which blew past you, is this: The White in “White Republic” = Nazi. Where whites are concerned governments and economic systems are irrelevant. Republicans have spent the past 30 years explaining, “I am not a racist because…” You’re free, of course, to plug your ears now and spend the next 30 years explaining, “I am not a Nazi because…”
Racialist, jew-wise Rush Limbaughism is the easiest thing in the world for jews to discredit. You’re free to discover it on your own.
One other thing, Jeff. Your American “White Republic” of the 1950′s no longer exists. It failed at a time when >85% of its population was white and christian. It won’t be resurrected, not at this stage. The laws integrating neighborhoods and schools, legalizing aliens, and imposing affirmative action (by any other name) and outcome based socioeconomic results in the name of racial equality can not be rescinded peacefully through the courts. I’ll leave it to you discover the ancient Anglo-Saxon legal principle behind why that is.
Praxis, the failure of the United States from the 1950s forward is due to Leftist ideology, radical Jewish influence and uncontrolled immigration. There wasn’t anything wrong with the republic per se. In some sense we had been a functioning republic for almost 200 years (ignoring the whole War of Northern Aggression). A republic works just fine if we are informed by biological science – if we understand, as our forefathers did, that White men have traits that others don’t, and this makes a republic possible for them.
Now, it’s true that getting to where we want to be won’t be easy, but the endpoint should still be a White Republic.
Even Nazism wouldn’t save the White race if it doesn’t truly understand human biology – and if enough Whites understand human biology the White Republic will be saved (in some form). So no need for the Nazism.
Glen: “It was part of the genius of their creators to establish institutions that are flexible enough to evolve and adapt to changing historical and technological circumstances.”
It would be more accurate to say that technological circumstances are adapting the institutions to themselves, and even adapting the genetics of the people to themselves.
Glen: “Sure these institutions aren’t perfect but they are sure preferable to the apocalyptic ‘Lord of the Flies’ Haiti-like scenario you envision.”
It seems certain that the trends of the current socio-technological context, extended unabated into the future, will result in the extinction of the White race. That you and your pal Timmy are prepared to pay that price shows that you don’t really care very much whether it survives or not.
One interesting thing though is that people like you really don’t have a choice. If my analysis is correct, this dystopia is coming and will be imposed on you whether you like it or not. This is true because technological systems will continue to evolve according to their own internal logic, including the sort of systems I have mentioned that are now appearing on the horizon, which have the potential to destroy global technological civilization in its entirety. To defend against the sort of mishap or attack I’m talking about, it will be necessary to learn exactly what those potential weapons or potential problems are, and to those with insight, it will immediately be clear that such knowledge in itself will be more than a million times more dangerous than the biggest hydrogen bomb. Can the knowledge of such means, i.e., those destructive techniques, be contained? That’s doubtful. Experience shows that whenever a technique is developed, it eventually will be deployed. Also, it must be appreciated that as techniques continue to grow ever more powerful, it will only take a single mishap or unforeseen side effect to destroy global technological civilization completely. Therefore, the odds are inherently stacked in favor of collapse. Someone betting on collapse need only be right once. By contrast, the forces of tyranny won’t be able to afford to make even a single mistake, and that does not seem to me to be at all probable.
Der weiße Engel’s (Josef Mengele) philosophy is crude materialism derived from Karl Marx. In his vision, the material forces of technology carry Man along as some kind of passive passenger. In such a worldview, the discussion of politics and culture are almost moot.
This is what Karl Marx called the materialist conception of history. This is what Der weiße Engel (Josef Mengele) advocates. Please read more about this Marxist viewpoint here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_materialism
Der weiße Engel (Josef Mengele) is not what he claims to be.
‘If my analysis is correct, this dystopia is coming and will be imposed on you whether you like it or not.’
This is exactly where your analysis is weakest. You’re vision is essentially a crude rehash of Marxist dialectical materialism. The lesson of the last 100 years is that historical determinism of this kind is pseudo-scientific nonsense. There are no scientific laws of historical development. Nothing is inevitable.
You should read ‘The Poverty of Historicism’ by Karl Popper. Yes Popper was Jew – but he was right about the fatal flaw at the heart of ideologies predicated on historical determinism.
In the end all you offer white people is resignation, fatalism and despair. Which is to say you offer them nothing at all.
I don’t really have much to say to imbeciles who deny that technical systems are ever becoming more powerful and more intrusive, or who are so foolish as to deny that this has implications for human development; let alone those who are so ignorant as to confuse this with Marx’s dialectical materialism, with which it has absolutely nothing in common. Dunce caps for you both, and go sit in the back of the class.
In other words, Der weiße Engel has been caught trying to smuggle Marxist ideology onto the website and is giving up. Of course, no one denies that technical advances have implications for human development. But that is hardly proof that Marx was right about Historical Materialism or that we have to accept some fatalistic philosophy. We are White men, we are the ones in control of the technology, not the other way around.
Exactly.
Let me remind you Jim that the U.S. declared War on Germany by not staying neutral (When World War II broke out in 1939, Roosevelt rejected the Wilsonian neutrality stance and sought ways to assist Britain and France militarily. He began a regular secret correspondence with the First Lord of the Admiralty Winston Churchill in September 1939 discussing ways of supporting Britain… He successfully urged Congress to enact the first peacetime draft in United States history in 1940) so if the Americans hate the Germans because of the loss of 400,000, their ire is misdirected. They have themselves to blame.
What I’m asking people to do Jim is to learn the truth. I don’t for a minute think the Germans were choirboys, but I know that the average German was a lot better off under the National Socialist then they were under the Weimar Republic. FDR sent Kenneth Galbraith to study Hitler’s land and agricultural reform policies because they were so successful.
“In reference to the case I was making: How on Earth does a country (like the US) suffer 400,000 deaths (in 4 short years) in a war with the axis powers and come away thinking that Hitler wasn’t that all that bad??? ” Let me remind you Jim that the U.S. declared War on Germany by not staying neutral (When World War II broke out in 1939, Roosevelt rejected the Wilsonian neutrality stance and sought ways to assist Britain and France militarily. He began a regular secret correspondence with the First Lord of the Admiralty Winston Churchill in September 1939 discussing ways of supporting Britain… He successfully urged Congress to enact the first peacetime draft in United States history in 1940) so if the Americans hate the Germans because of the loss of 400,000, their ire is misdirected. They have themselves to blame.
Jeff I’m prepared to talk about Mengele if you’re prepared to talk about this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_experimentation_in_the_United_States – Note how many were done after WWII, AFTER we so self-righteously condemned Germans scientists to death at Nuremberg. Hasn’t the History channel told you about this?
Helvena, with regard to the question of human experimentation by the United States and it’s comparison to Mengele, I don’t doubt that there were abuses in the US.
And you see, I would not choose an infamous doctor in the US who had performed ghastly experiments and was despised by the public, as my poster boy, especially if I was honestly trying to promote the image of the United States. There was a doctor in the 1950s that went around performing lobotomies in an irresponsible manner – I wouldn’t pick him above all others as the American face to the world. I’d pick an authentic hero.
Get it?
So I find it highly unlikely, that anyone that wanted to highlight the virtues of Germany, a land rich in heroes over the centuries, would pick Josef Mengele.
Angel can speak for himself, but I have Ezra Pound’s (the infamous antisemitic traitor) image as a sort of “Fuck you guys” to all the mediocre, mainstream thought folks and because I think he was right. It’s high time to break the chains of conventional thought. People go around wearing T-shirts of Mao and Manson yet we are suppose to believe that a Nazi is somehow more evil. Screw that.
Helvena: “People go around wearing T-shirts of Mao and Manson yet we are suppose to believe that a Nazi is somehow more evil. Screw that.”
That’s a good point, Helvena. When you get right down to it, the only reason Nazis are demonized because they still scare the living crap out of Jews and Judaized Whites like Timmy here. This is why Hitler is demonized and not Stalin. Same thing with Manson, really. There are many murderers whose crimes are much more appalling than his. But nothing scares the Jews and their lickspittles like a White man with the kind of charismatic power over others that Manson had, or Hitler had, particularly when combined with an awareness of the importance of race and a willingness to flaunt conventional standards of morality, which both men also had as well. These standards of morality are Jewish controls placed on the herd, and the status quo is safe so long as they don’t break down. If Nazism ever became acceptable, or even were regarded with a benign neutrality as just another point of view, the Jews would immediately have to hit the water start swimming full speed for Israel. That’s why they put so much energy into opposing these expressions of native White consciousness. If the iconography of White solidarity didn’t terrify them, they wouldn’t bother.
As for Mengele, it seems the evidence for his crimes is of the usual Holoco$t quality – pretty sketchy. Maybe Timmy can get his friends and relatives over at Nizkor to provide us with something more substantial. I can’t be bothered to spend a lot of time on it, but after a little checking, I’ve begun to wonder if there’s any proof at all he ever did the sorts of things commonly alleged. My research only turns up junk scholarship like this:
http://www.whale.to/b/mengele.html
which paints him as involved with the Kennedy assassination, the Illuminati, Jonestown, and countless other conspiracies. There we also are told that Mengele was a Rothschild! I bet most people here did not know that, although it will probably come as no surprise to Timmy. The Jew knows well that when someone has become an official Jewish demon, then all standards of proof go out the window, and literally anything can be said about him and it won’t be challenged.
Helvena, that approach is a dead end. It feels good to flip off the other side but it plays into the hands of those that despise Whites. It is playing the role of the “Hollywood Nazi” that they have created for us. Yes, some people go around wearing Manson shirts – and they are considered creeps and no one takes political advice from them. Is that your goal?
Are we to behave like pouty adolescents that deliberately get an F in class in order to “show the teacher”? LOL.
We are adult men, most of us past 30, why would we sink to the level of hurling spitballs and yelling ethnic slurs in some self-indulgent exhibition of idiocy.
Der weiße Engel is absolutely not who he claims to be, I guarantee it.
Jeff Maylor: Der weiße Engel is absolutely not who he claims to be, I guarantee it.
Jeff, you are right. “Engel” tipped his hand for good when he went off on his rant about technological systems. He’s “Adam” (or several semitic trolls posing as Adam, lol), the hapless goof who kept going on and on about the mythical “Technological System” then tossing scatological insults and running for Haifa when he didn’t have a solid answer for anyone. Which was the case almost all of the time. But he did ‘eat up’ a lot of bandwith. Now we know he and Der weiße Engel are one in the same. In the end he couldn’t resist sliding into his nonsense ‘theories’ that he and his cronies believe are so brilliant that they’ll throw the stupid goyim off the trail. Same language, writing style, and so on. Hilarious.
Hollywood? Have a look at this list of the self chosen. The bragging and self-aggrandizement grows by leaps and bounds. This is why they always ruin it in the end. They can’t resist ridicule or the chance to rub something, anything, even if it’s just their jewishness, in whitey’s face: http://tinyurl.com/8rwawj
OK, just so everyone gets a clear picture, Der weiße Engel is intrigued by Charles Manson, due to his charismatic power over others and willingness to flout social conventions (including ordering the murder of a pregnant woman). Is everyone getting the creep factor on this?
The sociopathy is off the scale. Go do some research on sociopathic attitudes and you will see things like a glib, charismatic charm mixed with a yearning to flout social standards for it’s own sake. That is Manson and many of his admirers.
So is Der weiße Engel trying to undermine White interests by associating it with criminal images? Or is he truly sociopathic himself, lost in daydreams of being a great dictator? Who know, who cares. Just don’t let him speak for White culture.
And also note the glib disregard for whether Josef Mengele was a war criminal or not. Der weiße Engel doesn’t mount a vigorous defense of the man, saying he was falsely accused and here is the truth. No. The issue of whether the man tortured and killed innocent people bores him. He has no interest in the matter one way or the other, but nonetheless chooses him as his pseudonym anyway.
This, at best, is not serious. This is a child playing psychopathic god for kicks. Let’s get on with the serious business of promoting White culture.
Okay, I’m sensing a lot of negativity here. :-) I suppose, though, I should be flattered to have acquired my own personal smear artist. And one of such gifts! Such verve and sheer imagination! I haven’t been smeared like this in a long time. I think such a performance deserves some kind of reward, some recognition. I know! Would you like to polish my combat boots, Timmy? Or how about I let you iron my white SS lab coat? :-) I bet you’d like that, wouldn’t you?
“… don’t let him speak for White culture.”
I speak only for myself, and never claimed otherwise. Who do you speak for, Timmy? Who are your paymasters? On second thought, nevermind. It’s entirely clear where your Ayn Randian, anti-racist garbage comes from.
I’m having a hard time finding anything reliable on Mengele as well but I’ll keep trying. For now Tiny Tim can try to answer this: If Mengele was all that is said about him, why didn’t he receive the same treatment as Koch?
From Wikipedia (also somewhat of a dubious source)
“Waldeck ordered a full scale investigation of the camp by Dr. Georg Konrad Morgen, an SS officer who was a judge in a German court.[2] Throughout the investigation, more of Koch’s orders to kill prisoners at the camp were revealed, as well as embezzlement of property stolen from prisoners.[1] It was also discovered that a prisoner who was “shot while trying to escape” had been told to get water from a well some distance from the camp, and he was shot from behind. He had also helped treat Koch for syphilis.[3] A charge of incitement to murder was lodged by Prince Waldeck and Dr. Morgen against Koch, to which were later added charges of embezzlement. Other camp officials were charged, including Koch’s wife. The trial resulted in Koch being sentenced to death for disgracing both himself and the SS.[4] Koch was executed by firing squad on 5 April 1945,[1] one week before American allied troops arrived to liberate the camp.”
Why would killing prisoners disgrace the SS if the camps were extermination camps? And how could Koch steal from prisoners if they were robbed of their belongings when they arrived in camp?
So if Koch was executed for these crimes, surly the SS would not have allowed Mengele to perform horrendous experiments. I’m afraid it is all just more Jewish fantasy.
A Munich pharmacist and his wife who met Mengele soon after the end of the war recall his words to them (p.67):
I don’t have anything to hide. Terrible things happened at Auschwitz, and I did my best to help. One could not do everything. There were terrible disasters there. I could only save so many. I never killed anyone or hurt anyone. I can prove I am innocent of what they could say against me. I am building the facts for my defense. I want to turn myself in and be cleared at a trial.
The couple promptly advised Mengele that he should not turn himself in, since he would in any way not receive a fair trial. Reading the words ascribed to Mengele one may wonder what is meant by “terrible things”. Mass gassings? Most likely not, since Mengele equates them with “terrible disasters”. It is hard to use the word disaster about premeditated mass murder. Epidemic diseases and malnutrition on the other hand could rightfully be called just that. This fits well with a sentence quoted from Mengele’s autobiography (p.73): “It is natural and understandable that the camps were suffering very bad hunger after all the problems and therefore I saw what was to be expected.” In another writing (p.80-81) Mengele (who in 1945 was stationed at Gross-Rosen) points out that the Allied newsreels depicting skeletal concentration camp prisoners and piles of corpses showed a situation caused by a breakdown of infrastructure due to Allied bombing. In another piece (p.154) he notes “The political lie triumphs and time and history have been warped and bowed.” It is hard to believe that Mengele would have wanted to turn himself in to be cleared in a trial if the allegation of selections for mass gassings was indeed true. Posner writes in his preface that Mengele took “perverse pride in what he did at Auschwitz.” If Mengele’s primary work in the camp was to staff off epidemics and in other ways contribute to the saving of lives, his pride may of course have been natural and far from perverse. It is also mentioned repeatedly that Mengele never expressed any feelings of guilt.
http://www.codoh.com/review/revmengele.html
“Engel” tipped his hand for good when he went off on his rant about technological systems.
Yep.
Der weiße Engel is Adam, wow very interesting, thanks. I knew there was something disingenuous about Der weiße Engel.
Helvean, if it’s ever shown that Megele was actually one of the nicest guys in Germany, then Der weiße Engel will stop using him as his pen-name. Der weiße Engel only wants to use him BECAUSE he is considered a vile person. Because that helps discredit any interest in White Culture.
The issue here isn’t really Mengele as such, it is Der weiße Engel’s deliberate use of him, specifically because it will tend to discredit White Advocacy. Which is what he wants.
I find the idea of chasing down 85-95 year old men who worked in concentration camps so they can be brought to “justice” (almost three quarters of a century after the fact) repulsive and disgusting. It’s all part of the public’s tendency to turn WW2, the most complicated event of the most complicated century in history, into some sort of simplistic morality play. (Studs Terkel’s “The Good War” as an example.)
Because of the pervasive simplistic thinking on all things WW2 that currently exists, trying to re-examine Hitler or the Nazis in a more sympathetic light is pointless. And self destructive to white advocates. THAT’S my main problem with championing Hitler.
As to evil.
According to Churchill, the Angles and Jutes who invaded Britain in 5th Century had, to some degree, a loosely defined policy of genocide towards the native Celts they encountered. It’s thought the same scenario may have existed when Cro-Magnon met Neanderthal. Aztecs, over the centuries, murdered and ate millions of their enemies on their ceremonial altars. Are these populations, or the people who led them, ever described as “evil” by modern historians/anthropologists? No. Nor will the Nazis be described as such in a few centuries. Hitler was warped by the injustices of the Armistice and murderous at times, but no more evil then the next dictator.
The current “historians” who call him evil while projecting an air of objectivity will be compared to the ranting, raving Gildas (of 5th/6th century Britain) in a hundred years.
ps – I’m in no way saying Mengele was a good guy, or that concentration camps weren’t that bad. He most likey wasn’t and they most likely were.
In the process of making twenty or so posts energetically smearing me and Dr. Mengele as psychopaths and all around no-goodniks, Timmy here has accidentally blundered into an interesting point. To wit: In one of those posts above, he suggests that instead of Der weiße Engel, George Washington would be a good handle, as Washington was a hero, a White man of excellence whose actions were uniformly praiseworthy. Yet is it true? No, the truth is quite the opposite, at least for those with modern, kosher sensibilities like Timmy. From the age of eleven years old until his death some 56 years later, Washington actually was a slave-owning White supremacist, who personally owned more than 100 negroes (or niggers, as he would have called them), and used to whip them regularly to enforce discipline. As he never let any of them go free while he was still alive, we can conjecture with a reasonable degree of certainty that he enjoyed owning and whipping his niggers, too. It probably was a fine workout, it must be conceded; it likely kept him in shape and in good spirits. But what would people say of me if I went out today and acquired a few negroes, or even one negro, and beat him into submission, and made him devote his entire life to serving me? I have no doubt that psychopath would be among the more moderate terms that people would call me. So it turns out that George Washington was, by modern standards, a very depraved man. He was a psychopath by any objective definition of the term.
Of course, George Washington is not demonized by Jews like Timmy. Timmy even pretends to admire him, but that’s only because he doesn’t feel personally threatened by him. Yet Timmy and his playpals on this forum feel very threatened by Mengele, or Hitler, and so they must devote a lot of time and energy to desecrating their memory. Some of that Jewish fury has even been turned in my direction, on the basis of what I’ve said about technology. These vermin understand how Jewish power is threatened by what I’ve said, and that a blow to the technological system of sufficient power would be enough to end Jewish power forever. So now they are crawling out from under the baseboards in force to attack me. But as has been so trenchantly noted by others, to attempt to silence a man is to pay him the greatest compliment, because it says that his arguments can’t be refuted in any other way.
Everyone should note that it would be considered illegitimate by any historian to compare George Washington – a man who refused to be crowned King and who stepped down after 2 terms – with Adolf Hitler. The principles they represented were quite different.
The institution of slavery, by the way, had existed for well over 4,000 years at that point. It’s purpose in the US was not cruelty for it’s own sake, but for labor. The Africans were not considered intelligent enough to be free men. The Whites who bought these African slaves (most of whom were slaves in Africa), often from Jewish slave traders, cared enough about the slaves to make sure they were raised as Christians and were taken care of in their old age. Contrary to propaganda, slaves were not brutally beaten every day, since such a beaten creature would be of little economic value.
By the way, one of George Washington’s closest friends was a Negro slave that rode next to him during the war. I doubt he was routinely insulting him. Washington simply believed that Negroes were a simpler race that required guidance – forceful guidance to be sure. They were considered human, but of a different nature than Whites.
Note that Der weiße Engel does not try and bring the image of Hitler and Josef Mengele up to that of Washington (if that were possible), he merely spends several paragraphs denigrating Washington and attempting moral equivalence between our First President and Josef Mengele. Why?
He wishes to slander all White leaders as people who “whip n*ggers” and commit atrocities, for the sake of cruelty. This is instructive for those out there that may, in an emotional state, be tempted to throw in with Hitler or any of the lesser characters of that regime. As fascinating as they may be as personalities, this is not the path anyone White I know wants to follow.
We already have a model to follow and it is not the variety of Marxism that Der weiße Engel (or Adam or whoever) is pushing.
Tim Wise: “The principles they represented were quite different.”
Whatever their other beliefs, both represented White supremacy. George Washington put this belief into practice by keeping negroes as human farm animals, personally beating and whipping them to enforce his will. Hitler put it into practice by evicting most of the Jews from Germany, and confiscating their ill-gotten wealth. By contrast, he is not known to have personally whipped or beaten any of them. He also protected White racial genetics by prohibiting intermarriage with Jews. So who was the superior man? Which course of action was better? I think Timmy’s situational ethics would have a hard time deciding this question, though it might be amusing to see him try.
It’s also noteworthy that slavery had already been abolished in many areas of the world when Washington kept his slaves. It was effectively abolished in England in 1772. It had even been made illegal in some of the states, such as Vermont and Massachusetts. Washington certainly could have freed his slaves during his lifetime if he’d wanted to, but he didn’t. We must conclude from this that keeping slaves was a conscious choice on Washington’s part; he enjoyed it. This great man’s dedication to freedom knew some very discreet limits.
Also of interest is the fact that George Washington even kept White slaves called indentured servants. The difference between a slave and an indentured servant was essentially just a technical distinction, as indentured servants could legally be beaten by their masters and were paid no wages. It was a hard life, and some were even known to die from the abuse. Moreover, Washington promoted miscegenation between the two classes of slave, presumably in order to procure for himself better, more intelligent, and hence more valuable human farm animals. One of his most famous slaves, Oney Judge, was a mulatto product of one of his White indentured servants being bred to a negro. This is the sort of man whom Timmy puts forward as a hero and a good role model for race-conscious Whites. An impartial examination shnows Hitler was obviously the better man, and the greater man, in many, if not all ways. I don’t expect kosher Timmy to admit it, but there it stands.
And just to be clear, I agree that “genocides” have been committed by peoples all over the globe for tens of thousands of years and continue to this day. We all know the the violence of the Nazis is exaggerated and that Hitler was turned into the very icon of evil for propaganda purposes. Hitler is a far more admirable character than Stalin. Of course, Hitler had better people (the Germans) to work with too.
And I certainly agree the endless pursuit of every last “war criminal” in Nazi Germany has been ridiculous.
And I’ve heard people of every race express a kind of admiration for Hitler all my life – Asians, Whites, Blacks – sometimes of a grudging nature and very briefly, but it is there. Especially if you read between the lines.
So, while the whole thing is very complicated, a few things are clear: Dictatorship is basically an Oriental idea imported into the West. It is not natural for Whites to pledge worshipful personal allegiance to one man for life. That is why Alexander the Great’s own troops mocked him when he started to demand a deference only reserved for despots. This is where Rome went wrong as it moved from Republic to Empire.
Adam, give it up. Stop with the Der weiße Engel routine. You’ve been popped again. You (and if you’re a team, no one would be surprised, it’s the semitic way) eventually fall back on the same rhetoric.
Maybe we’re all wrong. Hey, to show you’re on the right side, how about some paragraphs on the scores of jewish slave traders, jewish slave-ship owners and more that kept the institution rolling for so long? Or maybe some words on the biggest slave-holders today; the jews who run international prostitution rings? The jews who control child pornography? The jews who are in fact percentage wise the biggest consumers of said pornography? Instead of remarks about pedophile priests, how about some news on the fact that rabbis are arrested at much higher rates than priests for pedophile behavior and other sex crimes (and other crimes, period)? Or do we have to now put up with a stream of posts about the invincible, unstoppable “global technological system” before a new borscht belt stage act is created? lol lol lol
Almost every White leader in the world believed that Whites were more advanced – and at least up until the 1930s, pretty openly. Even the more liberal leaders recognized the superiority of Whites with the injunction to heed the “White Man’s burden”, i.e. helping to develop the less evolved races.
So George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Andrew Jackson, all the Kings of England and Germany, Hitler, and Napoleon probably all agreed on the superiority of Whites because that was the most commonly held belief until quite recently (the Chinese might have differed). So that is not a valid point of comparison. You’d be hard pressed to any differences among European or American leaders on that point until the last few generations really. Even Lincoln wanted Africans returned to Africa.
So, I’m not condemning Hitler because he was opposed to the subversive Jewish Bolshevism in Germany and the West in general. I am republics are a superior and more moral form of government than dictatorship. The Nazis had a strong attachment to the “Leadership Principle” and other ideas that centered around unconditional obedience to a supreme leader who could reign for life. This is despotism and that is dangerous.
Had what Buchanan calls the Civil Wars of the West been avoided, then the German people would have had to choose what direction they went in after Hitler. If they continued to follow dictatorship, they would have encountered the same problem all such absolute dictatorships face. Collapse.
Would Hitler have stepped down and allowed the German people to elect their own leaders on a regular basis and in accordance with the rule of law, as George Washington did? Of course not. Hitler built a personal empire for his own enjoyment, not a sustainable lawful government that could have survived generations as our Founders did.
No comparison.
Washington certainly could have freed his slaves during his lifetime if he’d wanted to, but he didn’t. We must conclude from this that keeping slaves was a conscious choice on Washington’s part; he enjoyed it.
Either that or it was an economic thing.
In any event, it certainly was a conscious choice on Washington’s part.
So what?? As I’ve said over and over, the general superiority of Whites was not controversial until relatively recently in history. I don’t even think it was controversial among blacks until they were propagandized to feet equal. Why do the handful of you insist on denigrating American leaders and the Founding Fathers? You are willing to degrade White American heroes to bring them down to the level of Hitler or Josef Mengele.
Frankly, there is something sick about a Hitler fetish. Not to mention a Mengele fetish. And it has nothing to with White culture, it is a cult of personality and a worship of raw power, which more of an Oriental trait than a White one. Why do the handful of you insist on following the cult of despot worship common in the Orient? Do you secretly crave being crushed by a dictator?
And by the way, even the Nazis had the good sense not to do what you few people are advocating. The Nazis did not present themselves as anti-social barbarians. They did not deliberately choose icons that the German people, rightly or wrongly, felt were hateful. Even the swastika was considered a good luck image.
I shouldn’t respond, but you few people litter the board with your Marxist/Socialist pro-dictator rubbish.
I think it best to simply leave Engel/Josef Mengele/Adam to his ‘technological systems’ and his adolescent Nazi fantasies.
Thanks Glen, I needed that. I knew a kid that was enthralled with Darth Vader growing up. He never got over that either.
Adam is wrong about George & Tim is wrong about Mengele. Perhaps they are both engaged in misdirection. The problem I find with letting the myths of WWII stand is that they are what bind current Jewish solidarity, solidarity built on lies. Jew need to understand how they are being used. Once the lies are exposed (those about slavery as well, for instance 1 out of every 7 slave owners was a Black & Jews dominated the trade) Whites will be able to look realistically at themselves without guilt. What happens then will at least happen in light of truth. It’s the lie I despise. It’s wrong to judge the past with today’s values.
This site is, I would say, is one of the most important if not the most important European ethnic sites on the internet. Jewish supremacists are quite cognizant of that. Expect the most sophisticated Jewish supremacist trolls and trolling on this blog.
As long as I have been lurking here, with only very occasional posts, I’ve always wondered why it wasn’t obvious to people that Der weiße Engel’s post here are not an asset to our cause but designed to subtly degrade the discourse and lower the general tenor of discussions. IMHO.
Please pardon the typos in my above post.
On the basis of what I see here, it’s hard to resist the conclusion that White people are simply too stupid to survive. Leaving the childish personal attacks to one side for the moment, here they side with self-admitted Jew “Jeff Maylor” in attacking Hitler, a man who tried to do more than any other man in history for the White race, and instead they support Washington, a sadistic psychopath who encouraged the White slaves in his household to mix with his negro slaves for his own personal profit. Why should it surprise anyone that Washington was a typical member of the White elite, putting profit before race, and identifying more with his class than his race? That’s the story of Whites all over the world: loyal as dogs to their upper classes, who constantly betray them. It somewhat pains me to admit it, but as your conduct here shows, Washington was right to regard you as farm animals. With sheep-like stupidity, you don’t realize that Hitler is a symbolic threat to that status quo and, when you get right down to it, that’s really the most fundamental reason he’s so demonized. Hitler’s real crime was that he didn’t come from the moneyed elites, and he wouldn’t sell out the White race for his own personal profit. That’s why the world combined under the Jews to destroy him. It’s also why vermin like Timmy and his playmates on the forum must struggle so constantly to suppress all mention of him and his associates like Mengele.
Fortunately, while these knuckleheads may represent the average intelligence of Whites, they don’t represent the sort of genius that, it is to be hoped, eventually will arise to free them.
Der weiße Engel appears to be suffering some kind of breakdown. Either in psychology or due to
The ADL, SPLC etc get agitated and disturbed about thoughtful, intelligent discussions that promote European ethnic cohesion without lots of talk of National Socialism, Adolf Hitler, racial epithets like nigger this and nigger that etc. They know such terms will lower the stature of any efforts in the eyes of most White people and drive them away. Der weiße Engel is just too intelligent to not know the effect of his words. Very early on he set off my troll-dar.
Der weiße Engel appears to be suffering some kind of breakdown. Either due to a preexisting psychological problem or due to the failure of his transparent attempts to slander White advocacy.
He hates White culture and everything he writes is designed to denigrate it. He has gone on yet another anti-Founding Fathers tirade, referring to George Washington as a “sadistic psychopath ”
Now at first, I thought Der weiße Engel might be Jewish, because that is the first accusation he makes against anyone that calls him out on his low brow slanders. But the more I think of it, he isn’t clever enough to be Jewish. No, I suspect he is some leftover White Leftist from the 60s that subscribes to a mix of Marxism and anti-technology romanticism, who believes the White Man’s science and technology ruined everything. Think Ted Kaczynski. Is Kaczyski allowed to write from prison?
His hatred for Whites is quite real. He finds it impossible to describe any White leader as benevolent, thoughtful, magnanimous and compassionate. No, they are all “sadistic psychopaths” in his mind.
The negative side of Jewish influence, especially by Leftist aggressive Jews is obvious to anyone on this site. But it should be a warning to all of us that anyone that promotes some silly caricature of White concerns over Jewish influence should be looked at with skepticism. If their mode of attack is just one low brow anti-black, anti-asian or anti-semitic attack after another, laced with lots of profanity, they are probably not really White Advocates. If they come off like some silly neo-Nazi in a bad Hollywood movie, chances are, they are NOT on our side.
thm says
“The ADL, SPLC etc get agitated and disturbed about thoughtful, intelligent discussions that promote European ethnic cohesion …”
Perfectly said. They don’t fear the social outcast wearing a Manson shirt and yelling curse words. They do fear a thoughtful groups of White men an women discussing their culture and it’s future.
Let’s first note the refusal to engage facts, characteristic of Jewish smear artists everywhere.
Q: Did George Washington promote race mixing between White and negro for profit, even in his own household, among his own slaves?
A: Yes, he did. The historical record in the case of his slave Oney Judge stands unrefuted.
Q: Did Hitler unconditionally oppose race mixing?
A: Yes, he did. Of course, that’s exactly what sets kosher Timmy off.
Q: Did George Washington whip his slaves, both White and black, to enforce submission?
A: Of course he did, and in fact, one contemporary account says he did so with more than usual severity.
Q: Does keeping humans as farm animals, regularly beating them to enforce submission, qualify as a psychopathy and/or sadism?
A: No, says kosher Tim. Not if it’s a popular thing to do! You might think he can’t be serious, but that’s his standard.
Q: Was Hitler, who was accession to the post of Chancellor occurred under due process of law, and was ratified by a plebiscite of the people, a tyrant?
A: Yes, according to Timmy and his forum playmates. No, by any rational standard.
Q: Is Obama, a negro whose accession to the Presidency occurred under due process of law, a tyrant?
A: No, says Timmy. Obama was elected by a process set up by the race-betraying elites of the distant past, and so cannot be a tyrant. He must be obeyed.
And this ridiculous Jewish troll wants to pass itself off as an advocate of White racial interests??? How absolutely laughable!
Q: Is Der weiße Engel’s hate speech getting you down?
A: Then turn to this video for a positive image: White People are Cool.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvsOADA7P7Y
We must also note the characteristic Jewish smear tactic of “mental illness” for anyone who recognizes Hitler’s greatness. This is what was done to Ezra Pound, among many others. To attempt to discredit an idea with such cheap tricks is very Jewy indeed. It stinks of gefilte fish, just like kosher Timmy!
George Washington’s treatment of slaves is described below by infoplease.com. The link is below. Like all natural born men, I’m sure Washington had some flaws, but we were sure lucky to have him.
“Whatever his opinion of his slaves, Washington was a kind master… In reference to their rations he wrote, “whether this addition … is sufficient, I will not undertake to decide;—but in most explicit language I desire they may have plenty … At Christmas-time there are entries in his ledger for whiskey or rum for “the negroes,” and towards the end of his life he ordered the overseer, “although others are getting out of the practice of using spirits at Harvest, yet, as my people have always been accustomed to it, a hogshead of Rum must be purchased…
A greater kindness of his was, in 1787, when he very much desired a negro mason offered for sale, yet directed his agent that “if he has a family, with which he is to be sold; or from whom he would reluctantly part, I decline the purchase; his feelings I would not be the means of hurting in the latter case, nor at any rate be incumbered with the former.”
http://www.infoplease.com/t/history/true-washington/treatmemt.html
These fond apologetics for Washington’s psychopathic and sadistic behavior make me laugh. The record is mixed, at best. From wiki:
So he sometimes treated his human farm animals to a bit of rum? Yes, very impressive. But how come Timmy isn’t equally impressed with Mengele’s kindnesses? I’ve seen accounts that say he gave the Jewish children sweets. This is just more Jewish double standards. Sure, Tim. Keeping humans as farm animals, buying and selling them, and beating them into submission when they don’t comply with your demands is perfectly normal behavior. Nothing sadistic or psychopathic there at all. Nope.
Further, does anyone imagine that Washington’s slaves, whether White or black, would have remained his slaves if they weren’t kept in that condition by fear of punishment? Or that they worked from dawn to dusk out of love for him, instead of fear? If so, why were they constantly running away? American historians will try to sanitize his image where they can. That’s to be expected. Meanwhile, appeasing exactly the same sentiments of political correctness that Timmy urges us to appease, George Washington’s name is struck off schools, roads, and other public works, to be replaced with Martin Luther King’s and even Malcolm X’s.
The end result of kosher Timmy’s excuse-making for Washington, on the grounds that he didn’t know any better, and that we mustn’t judge him by the standards of today, is that NO ONE’S behavior, not even the Jews, can ever be called psychopathic. After all, the Jews are only treating others according to the standards of their own culture! So that’s where kosher Tim Wise’s moral relativism ends up, and is meant to end up. Consider the source.
So as should be obvious to everyone, Der weiße Engel hates George Washington, hates the United States of America and hates White people.
This is instructive. Der weiße Engel tried to tempt a few people with superficial ethnic slurs and hateful rhetoric (as if that had anything to do with White culture and White advocacy) into embracing attitudes and images that would ensure White failure. This must mean the elevated intellectual tone of this site is considered formidable to someone. It means the anti-White forces can only battle low rent skinhead types and they know it.
Just be aware he will come back in some other guise. I think the key is to look for the “Holllywood Nazi” attitude, the silly skinhead persona, the embracing of dark images, and basically being more about “hating Jews” than loving Whites.
“I freed a thousand slaves I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves.” Harriet Tubman
http://www.theheroesclub.org/harriet_tubman.php
Angel you don’t believe the mainstream Historians about Germany (and rightfully so), but you believe the worst about the slaveholders. That’s inconsistent.
Jeff, you advance the Jewish meme of victimhood. The Red Cross put the total death count in the German camps at 300,000 sighting causes of death as starvation (because of Allied bombing) typhus and natural causes. Yes there were executions but not random and certainly not because they were Jewish or only because they were Jewish.
Helvena, I don’t mean to advance any Jewish meme of victimhood, if by that you mean the way Jews have privileged their own suffering above all others. Is that what you mean? Because I agree – Jews have made a fetish out of their suffering. They remember every single slight, real or imagined, going back 4,000 years. In a sense, remembering who hurt them and how IS their religion – which doesn’t strike me as healthy for their kids.
I also have no doubt that stories of German violence against Jews is vastly overrated. The 6 million figure is ridiculous – probably exaggerated by a factor of 100. I have known many Germans and they do not strike me as sadistic madmen. Actually quite the opposite, they are the salt of the earth. It truly offends me to see them portrayed as a race of cold blooded killers again and again. What if Jews were portrayed that way?
Beyond that, there was an ethnic conflict going on in Germany with Jewish Bolshevism representing a real threat. These conflicts get ugly fast and it’s almost impossible to avoid “atrocities” on both sides. Of course, we never hear of the Jewish atrocities.
So, in my desire to distance this site and movement from skinheads and other knuckleheads, I don’t mean to come across as anti-German. Believe me, I’m not. For example, I think we should make Von Braun and the other German scientists much more high profile. Americans need to understand we got to the moon because of German scientists.
Why do idiots like Der weiße Engel or Adam or whatever his or their names are, always use the ridiculous ploy of applying present day sensibilities to people and practices of the past? If we’re going to do that, then apply the same logic and standards to jews and to Israel. From the Butcher of Beirut to Bibi the perverted, hate filled hypocrite. Oh wait, the jews and whatever they do or want to do are always right. lol
Fair enough Jeff. Like I said I’m interested in the truth no matter where that takes us.
I have a 56″ Plasma TV hooked to a PS3, satellite tv and satellite radio with Everything, with Killer Surround Sound and I still come here first because knowing which way the wind is blowing is important to me. (Though I still think most of us posting here must be bat shit crazy to be jousting with windmills, deluding ourselves into thinking we’re making a difference when we’re not.)
I’ve always suspected posting opinions on the internet to be a form of emotional masturbation – only without the full-body-stone of the real thing.
And on a subject as profound as this one, I don’t know if that’s enough of the commitment required to Root Out the Truth…and then to DO SUMTHIN ABOUT IT!
Let me tell ya – I’m not happy I’ve arrived at this conclusion…I’d much rather have seen either of the two opposing sides in this argument offer up a cogent, concise argument in their favour before now, but they both appear to be playing to the balconies rather than to those in the expensive seats – (the ones who could make a difference if convinced of the validity of either side’s arguments.) …and because of that, they’ve, (Both Sides), lost me…
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