Dmitri Rogozin, Russia’s ambassador to NATO, speaks during a news conference at NATO headquarters in Brussels.
The World Policy Forum recently held a conference in Yaroslavl titled “The modern state in the age of social diversity.” It has attracted wide the attention of Russians as well as foreign experts and analysts. In particular, the speech delivered by Dr. Dimitry Rogozin, the Permanent Representative of Russia to NATO has attracted considerable attention (see here for TOO articles mentioned Rogozin). However, some of the media published the text with large inaccuracies, while others simply ignored it. Therefore, at the request of readers, Arguments of the Week, a public affairs website, has decided to completely and without distortion publish the speech of Dimitry Rogozin (bold-faced type in original). The following is an English translation.
* * *
Thank you for the invitation Igor [Yurgens] and your kind introduction. The topic, which I now want to touch on, is not directly in the scope of my professional competence, but is relevant to my research, and has my civic interest. It’s about the national question in Europe and Russia. It is now a key domestic challenge and growing threat to the whole Euro-Atlantic space.
The question arises: what is the reason for the failure of multiculturalism in Europe and what are the lessons for Russia? The ideology of “multi-kulti” shaped the postwar leftist movement in response to European fascism and Nazism and represents “the other extreme.” It has been suggested that a new European culture is to fully renounce conservatism, nationalism and the Christian religion — and will be a convenient “tolerant” environment for the removal of old conflicts and adopt newly arrived immigrants from the South to the “free world”. What happened is just the opposite: a radically weakened “autochthonous” culture of Europe does not attract immigrants (as opposed to social welfare and dreams of the “good life”). Mass moving to the Old World, the immigrants have maintained their identity and separated themselves from the “faceless Europeans.”
Currently there is no conflict between Christianity and Islam in Europe, as the European Christian civilization has been artificially weakened by secularism and the leftist “cultural revolution.” Europe’s Muslims have a religiously stronger solidarity than the indigenous population, and they keep their roots, forming pure ethnic neighborhoods. I am now temporarily living and working in Brussels and I can tell you that the local police sometimes do not risk patrolling in the so-called Arab neighborhoods of their capitals.
The policy of “tolerance” and “multiculturalism” in the European version does not work on the integration of foreigners, let alone assimilate them (as happened in centuries past), and the result is segregation and the creation of a “fifth column” from the South, which is dreaming to blow away the “godless West” from the inside. Thus integration mechanisms (education, military, professional socialization, etc.) work well, but cover only a small fraction of immigrants. So I conclude: integration is possible only into a strong dominant culture, but not into “tolerance” and “facelessness.“
The collapse of European multiculturalism, which has been admitted this year by leaders of the major Western European states, was predicted a decade ago. And not only by critics on the right—conservatives and nationalists, but also liberals, including Seyla Benhabib. In her works, she persistently and persuasively argued that the granting of privileges to ethnic and racial groups contradicts the liberal foundations of Western democracy and is inconsistent with fundamental notions of freedom and equality. Thus, the risk of repetition, “Roman scenario” — the fall of ancient Rome under the onslaught of the barbarian hordes — is no longer an intellectual provocation, but a realistic assessment of the situation prevailing in Western Europe.
The Russian situation is somewhat similar to the West, but in some aspects much different. First, like the West, Russia is experiencing an unprecedented immigration pressure. In total volume of immigration, it ranks second in the world after the United States. Unfortunately, that immigration is not justified economically, and is extremely dangerous socially and politically. The problem is Russia has imported almost exclusively unskilled labor on a large scale, which dramatically reduces the incentives for technological modernization of Russian industry and results in an archaic social structure. Uncontrolled immigration entails a significant increase of tensions in Russian cities, challenging the social and political stability of the country.
It may be objected: Pardon me, what does multiculturalism have to do with that? Can immigrants in Russia be labeled a “privileged minority”? My answer is: in Russia, some immigrant groups are indeed privileged. They receive preferences for business, forming interconnected and influential ethnic networks. Within the framework of the criminal “division of labor,” they control entire sectors of trade and services, and exert organized pressure on the government and the administration of justice.
However, the main line of tension in Russia today is not between, so to speak, citizens of Russia and immigrants, but within Russian society between ethnic groups in the North Caucasus and the Russians. You can easily imagine the level of distress, to learn that, according to the published opinion polls, 50 to 75% of Russian citizens advocate the separation of the North Caucasus — in whole or in part — from the rest of Russia. This is an extremely dangerous trend, aimed at the disintegration of the country. Moreover, carriers of these destructive attitudes are in the most dynamic sections of Russian society: students, businessmen and intellectuals.
The reasons for this hostility are well known to the Russian participants of the conference, but for foreigners I briefly enumerate them: since the Yeltsin-era the formal and actual status of the various national republics is higher than the actual Russian regions. These republics have certain preferences and benefits. At the same time people from these republics quite often show disrespect to the people of the central Russian cities; they deliberately violate Russian cultural standards and norms for conventional behavior. Criminal elements, including some with the experience of participation in bandit formations, form a significant part of the most brutal and cynical criminal groups.
Privileged ethnic groups and preferred areas are a gross perversion of the principles of the Russian multiculturalism. Or, to paraphrase [George] Orwell, some people are more equal than others.
Russians feel that in Russia they are the position of suffering social and ethnic discrimination as a majority; they are acutely aware of their unequal status and experience it deeply. As a result, in Russia the ethnic Russian population began to mobilize. The Russian situation, the Russian question — is the main nerve of contemporary Russian politics, which, unfortunately, many have not yet understood, but is seen by many with fear and anxiety. Meanwhile, the decision of the Russian question critically depends not only on the stability and integrity of the country, as I pointed out earlier, but, without exaggeration, the vector of its historical development.
The fact is that the relations between the Russians and the new “preferred minorities” are essentially the relationship between the center and the relatively less modernized periphery. The historical choice is: either the periphery will subordinate and barbarize the center or the center will facilitate the upgrade of the periphery. Historically, both quantitatively and qualitatively the Russians are the driving force behind the country’s modernization and the modernization of its nucleus, and they historically bear the primary responsibility of uniting the peoples of Russia.
Is it possible to unleash, and not to cut the knot, which sprang up in Russia? As a Russian citizen, as an ethnic Russian, as a politician, a patriot of my country, I am convinced that such a path exists.
Without describing the method, I will describe only its basic principles:
First: Russian civil equality. Especially for the fearful and hard of hearing: it is not about some privileges and advantages for the Russians, but about equality and justice. Equal rights for Russian civilians and justice for all — that’s the main demand of the Russian people and the requirement of all Russian patriots. Are the principles of equality and fairness something offensive and humiliating to other nations, or against their interests?
The second principle: the rejection of the perversion of the principles of multiculturalism and pseudo-tolerance. Instead there must be some interethnic peace, based on national solidarity and integration. Any “privileged minority”—it does not matter whether it is privileged areas, or privileged ethnic groups or clans—is totally unacceptable. They destroy the unity and integrity of the country, contrary to fundamental democratic principles.
Third: prior to its social reconstruction the North Caucasus must be completely returned to the Russian political and legal field. There should not be and never will be any political and legal vacuums in Russia. Russia should return to the Caucasus and the Caucasus should return to Russia.
Fourth, do not be afraid to debate on the national question, but debate must be led by responsible and competent people who are authoritative representatives of the various peoples and Diasporas.
And most importantly, there is a need of “re-nationalization” of the Russian people. There needs to be a restoration of the instinct of Russian peoplehood. Without the Russian people—who are a repository of Russia’s historical memory—and their great Russian culture the unique and diverse Russian civilization would be impossible.
The sooner we move in this direction, the more quickly and painlessly it will be.
Thank you for your attention.
Facing the Future as a Minority
So I conclude: integration is possible only into a strong dominant culture, but not into “tolerance” and “facelessness. “
This is also the US.
I have always seen the US this way since entering this Country. (Can’t believe someone else sees the flaws in the system) Europe has patterned, (especially Germany), herself after her victors, the US post WW2. I saw it 40 some years ago and asked the question “who and what is the US”? The blacks and their lifestyle, the Mexicans and their lifestyle, the hilly-billies and their lifestyle, gays, lesbians, gang lifestyles, hippies, drugs and free sex lifestyles of decades ago, now called recreational? All and everything is tolerated, all Religions, nutty ones too, not to mention the exploitations and low wages and greed in industry and commerce. (They just move to Mexico, India, china etc. to become wealthier.) No common bonds really, or responsibilities to any people, not even your own. Oh yes, the flag, and we are all citizens of one Country. That is not enough.
The US is faceless just like Europe is becoming. I see a better chance for Europe as having a repository of History, and a chance to recover, then the 200 year old melting pot in the US. The Jews maintain their repository of History no matter where they live, and don’t cut themselves loose from their 2000 year old Diaspora. They are even returning to these countries when push comes to shove, and play out the guilt cards to their advantage.
White European people in the US should learn from other countries, such as this speech, or why and how come Jews behave or pattern themselves the way they do. Don’t become them, but learn to understand and*** take charge of the destiny we decide are common to us***. Others often perceive and have views we can not see living in the US.
I am an American now, but I happen to be not so prideful. A clear and sober perspective is helpful and advantages to learning.
Critique is good if you are in a position to change something. If we are not, then we should learn from others first, empower ourselves, and then change what is worth changing.
European Whites are smart people for God’s sake.
I’m a little puzzled and near to Missouri when public figures speak out confidently as to what is turning the motivational axle. If Russians are now rivaling Anglo-American civilization in their love of equality and justice, it is a departure from the generally consistent pattern of acts and omissions relevant to their history in the last, say, 200 years.
Comrade Dmitri Rogozin is as much a liar as is Hillary Clinton. Neither Russia nor the US believe in justice and equality. Both countries are imperialists surviving by exploiting third world countries.
The US and other ZOGs have decided to bring a regime change in Russia as they don’t like Putin’s friendly relations with China and Iran.
http://rehmat1.wordpress.com/2011/08/17/tehran-should-not-trust-moscow/
Isnt there something here along the lines of hegelian dialectics. Rogozin plants his flag in the middle ground, “real equality,” which is the conservative position that has failed for 50 years in the US.
The flag should be planted in the meme “Russia for Russians” shouldnt it?
What you sew is what you reap, or what goes around comes around?
Check out Israels internal problems. Unbelievable!!!!!
Advance of the Zealots: The Growing Influence of the Ultra-Orthodox in
Israel
—————————————————————–
Veiled women, radical rabbis and gender segregation: Israel is facing a
rise in the influence of ultra-Orthodox Jews. Their efforts to impose a
strictly conservative worldview have led to growing tensions with the
country’s secular society. A resolution to the conflict is vital for
Israel’s future.
By Juliane von Mittelstaedt
You can download the complete article over the Internet at the following
URL:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,808252,00.html
“”…….integration is possible only into a strong dominant culture, but not into “tolerance” and “facelessness.“……….”"
So, gypsy,s have lived in Europe app.700 years, when the western culture was strong and dominant. They did not integrated and when soviets forced them to live our way, for a few generations, then after collapse of USSR the remongrelized again.
This integration is BS.
How do we get this kind of basic representation of the ethnic interests of whites represented in the media and on television?
What really upsets me (and frankly disgusts me) is that the news media in Canada (CBC and CTV, Global) have watched the racial and ethnic dispossession of Canadians for 20 years and never once given voice or attention to the issue (except of course from the immigrants persepective).
Its really offensive– and comical to watch these ‘journalists’ speak day after day and yet miss the really issue and trends and their importance.
Its why I don’t watch them or listen. And I have no respect for them.
Dr. Dimitry Rogozin is clearly anti-Semitic. Asking people to integrate and not to have divided loyalties must be an attack in Jews.
@Koprarott There are always groups that will not integrate, whether they be Gypsies, Jews, or others. Rogozin’s point stems from the fact that Russians, the overwhelming ethnic majority, feel like second class citizens. That is the same complaint that the vast majority who post here have. The multicultural myth is truly an international phenomenon. Who are the internationalists? Can’t say that out loud because Auntie Sem I Tism will stick to you.
That is why “The Culture of Critique” is vilified. It crosses national boundaries and shines the light on the root cause of our problem, not the symptom – multiculturalism.
“And most importantly, there is a need of “re-nationalization” of the Russian people. ”
It would have been good to hear more about that and less about the assimilation of immigrants. The article certainly makes me warm to Russia as a possible guide for the rest of Europe and his point about responsible and competent people leading the debate is well made. It has to be said that he is not explicitly white nationalist.
Nothing this guy said had any value. The point is not “equality” or “rights” or whatever other nonsense the egalitarians, commies, liberals, Christians, globalists, and socialists believe in. The point is maintaining the ethnic majority at any and all costs, including taking large-scale action against immigration. Rule One: a politician can go on about the “failure” of multiculturalism (how is it a failure? it was designed to destroy White nations, and it’s working brilliantly), but unless he explicitely says that the nation needs to take steps to protect its majority he is not to be trusted. Unforftunately this basically means that every European politician cannot be trusted.
Rogozin doesn’t seem to have much of a clue. If he’s right that
“…50 to 75% of Russian citizens advocate the separation of the North Caucasus — in whole or in part — from the rest of Russia…”
and that people from the Caucasus and the Russians don’t get along well, then isn’t it pretty obvious that separation is the only way to go, after which no more immigration? Then encourage those misfits to return home to the Caucasus. Or just deport them.
Real interesting Pat Buchanan-Ralph Nader dialogue available on Buchanan’s website or on c-span.
Nader and Paddy discuss the corporate multi-culture as now being “the” American culture.
Very interesting stuff.
@fender: He has to speak a certain language, based on the context in which he finds himself. His language is shaped by Russia’s Imperial and Soviet histories, as well as by the past 20 years. He wants an ethnically Russian state, but he also doesn’t want to lose Kazan, Astrakhan, and Vladivostok.
This is not directed at you, but it’s very frustrating how often readers here are unable to detect the subtext and implicit aims of various writings–especially things written by Jews. And so they are so easily manipulated….
@Athanasius:
People who want an ethnically Russian (or European) state will say so. They will lay out the facts simply and precisely: 1. Immigration is a threat to Russian identity 2. Race-mixing is a threat to the Russian people 3. Non-Russians need to be deported. No European leader has publicly called for White racial interests. That’s a huge problem.
@fender: And it’s precisely because of Russia’s precarious demographics that a politician can’t come out and say that. In that case, Russia could have a much smaller and ethnically pure state, or what’s left of the Empire, but not both. Russia differs from Western European nations in that sense–it is still an Empire. If anything, they should look to China for successful ethnic homogenization.
In any event, I don’t think you appreciate the emotional trauma that would result from shrinking Russia back to its pre-Ivan the Terrible borders.
Yet another writer who cannot separate the terms “Christianity” and “Western Civilisation”, believing them to be mutually inclusive. Even worse, one who equates our downfall as a society with the rise in secularism.
*sigh*
The so-called “White Nationalism” is going nowhere, as long as certain people remain intent on imposing their Semite religion on us all once more.
I for one will not work with anyone who promotes the Christian agenda as part of the forefront of our proposed “Brave New Words” and I am far from alone in this. To believe in an organised religion is one thing. To impose that organised religion on the State is quite another.
There has to be complete separation of religion and state, or you risk alienating the younger generation that is so vital to our survival. Any Christian fundamentalists who disagree can go and worship their Jewish “God” in the Holy Land.
@Celtic_Heathen: Great, you hate your grandparents more than you love your race.
@Athanasius: But isn’t that always the case with empire? Cake, or full stomach? I don’t like the chances of integrating Chechens, and I don’t really blame them for not being that enthused over Russia either, given what they suffered under Stalin.
America could defend its geographical integrity with some of the troops splayed across the globe, if hegemony weren’t priority #1.
The trouble with Celtic Heathen and the other pagans is that they are selling slide rulers to computer programmers. They have no real force since there aren’t enough of them to fill a Yugo.
They give the distinct impression that they are on the Jewish side. They turn off the people we need. To Celtic Heathen and his boys, please shut the f up.
In a Christian society, which is traditionally anti-Jewish, they can survive. Celtic Heathen lighten up, nobody is going to kick your scrawny ass and force you to believe in Christ.
Historically Russia has been a multi-ethnic and multi-religious state, unlike most European countries, some of which used to be ethnically almost uniform.
Moreover, Chechens are white people as are Circassians. Actually, among the Muslim Chechens there are lots of blonds.there are more blond-haired and red-haired people among Chechens than among Christian Ossetians who tend to look more like Southern Europeans. As for the Tatars in Tatarstan, they mixed so much with the Slavs that they are mostly indistinguishable.
If these differences require splitting the country, then on this basis we could also split Germany or Spain. In the German North most people look Nordic and they are predominantly Protestant. In the South they look much less Nordic and are mostly Catholic.
And what about Hungarian or Finns people? They are not even Indo-European. Their original tribal culture was completely diffrent from that of Indo-European tribes. Does it mean they don’t belong to Europe??? The truth is that they are as much European as other peoples.
I have been strongly opposed to mass immigration of non-European peoples to Europe. However, historical ethnic minorities that have always been there – and this has been the case mainly with Russia or Eastern Europe – are a different issue. In fact in some cases it is even impossible to do any splitting. Tatars in Lithuania ot Belarus do not live in any particular region. They live in many places and, even if they lived in one particular place, they would constitute too small a number to form their own state. The Gagauz of Moldova are also a small historical minority there. They are Christians of Turkic background and have lived in that part of the world since the Middle Ages.
Speaking of “a fifth column” – russians themselves are “the fifth column” in some countries.
In my country – Latvia – after decades of soviet (in fact, russian) occupation, multiple deportations of natives to Siberia and colonization by russians, proportions of russians have risen from 8% before Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact to approximately 37% now (28% – russians and also “ukrainians”, “belorussians”, etc., whose first language is Russian and who generally even haven’t knowledge of Ukranian, Belorussian, etc. ).
But knowledge of these historical facts does not stop russians from wailing about “violations of human rights” and “oppression of ethnic minorities” (that is, russians) in Baltic states, when their governments try to restore, for example, the dominant status of respective native languages.
Dmitri Rogozin is one of those Russian well-known “hawks”, whose propaganda of lies we, the Baltics, had to endure and fight right from the moment of collapse of Soviet Union.
And speaking of North Caucasus problem – wasn’t it the czarist Russia, who annexed Caucasus long time again ? (North caucasians are NOT the immigrants from abroad like those in European Union or USA) Wasn’t it Chechnya, who wanted independence, but both Yeltsin and Putin started their wars to prevent it?
I have to say that if I was an american, I would readily agree with ideas expressed in the speech of Rogozin. But I’m latvian and I realize that those issues are far more complex than it seems at first.
@Marianne: You are eliding some complicated issues. If you want to see what a Turk looks like go to Xinjiang or Uzbekistan. Clearly, the Gagauz, to take one of your examples, are phenotypically white. But how they got that way? Are they actually descendants of the native population that were linguistically Turkified? Who knows.
The Chechens, however, are not like the Gagauz. They don’t look like Russians. And Islam is hostile to Russian nationhood. None of the Christian Turkic/Altaic groups in Russia are problematic.
Russia should either: a: press very hard to convert all the minority groups to Orthodoxy (difficult); or b) infect them with materialism, feminism and liberalism while promoting traditional values among themselves and increasing their birthrate.
Even in the former case, the Russians will have to increase their birthrate. But as long as these minority groups have stable populations themselves, the Russian nation can survive them.
@Redcorona: Yes it should.
@Haris: If the Russian people were strongly re-nationalized at the price of losing all power in Baltic countries, I think the trade-off would be vastly favorable for Russia and the world as well as the Balts.
I see this as not too dissimilar from the American situation. If White America could be strongly re-nationalized at the cost of losing its imperial role, that would be a wonderful thing for America and the world.
@Daybreaker:
Yes, I agree, that this hypothetical “re-nationalization” would be for the benefit to all.
By the way in Latvian word “balts” means “white” (it’s adjective, not plural noun).:) “White” in Lithuanian is “baltas”.
@Athanasius:
Having an empire will be pointless if the result is a mongrelized population with a low IQ. Above all else the Russians need to get their core population up. The biggest problem is Slavic men, who are indifferent to life and only care about their alcohol and cigarettes. They die young and can’t hold jobs. That’s why Russian women go for Asian immigrants, because they’re motivated and stable. Russian women are beautiful– how stupid can Russian men be not to have loads of babies with them?
@fender: I don’t disagree with any of that.
@fender: You just have to appreciate, from the Russian point of view, the emotional effect of the possibility of giving up land that has been Russian since the 16th century.
@Athanasius:
If giving up the land means less immigrants, I’m sure most Russians would go for it.
Brilliant. I voice an opinion critical of the lack of separation between “Christian” values and Euro-centrism and I’m accused of both “hating my Grandparents” (not true. They were Atheist, anyway, and always let me choose my own belief system. Something some of you people are incapable of… and they say Jews are intolerant!) and told to “shut the f up”.
I must stand corrected now, knowing that all will be well once more in the West, as long as we genuflect before a Semite religion and pledge undying love to Jesus the Jew. Hallelujah!
@Celtic_Heathen:
I’m with Celtic Heathen on that one.
But someone really should devise a better religion than Christianity to replace it. One that isn’t at odds with modern science and yet respects the worthwhile features of our N. European pagan past. PLus has a full complement of fulfilling rituals and rites of passage. If you know of anything along those lines, please write up a summary plus links for TOO!
Russia has a lot of good potential.
@Celtic_Heathen:
I don’t speak for all Christians, but I do want to comment on something you wrote.
The so-called “White Nationalism” is going nowhere, as long as certain people remain intent on imposing their Semite religion on us all once more.
I for one will not work with anyone who promotes the Christian agenda as part of the forefront of our proposed “Brave New Words” and I am far from alone in this. To believe in an organised religion is one thing. To impose that organised religion on the State is quite another.
I don’t want to try to force you or others to believe in something they don’t believe in.
I (and many other Christians) believe that Christianity is a relationship with the risen Christ.
I understand your desire to not feel pressured into believing this or that. Personally, I’m not sure what to believe about the Bible, especially parts of the Old Testament.
And honestly I’m sort of new to Christianity.
I appreciate the different Christian denominations, and figure that most or all of them offer something important and useful.
@Tony:
http://lds.org/media-library/video/our-heavenly-fathers-plan?lang=eng#2011-06-03-we-lived-with-god
The above link is a short four-minute, beautifully-produced video featuring a Mormon scientist. I love the images and music. Great video, in my opinion. Very genuine.
I’m not sure if most Christians consider Mormons to be Christians. From what little I know about them, I like them. I like how they emphasize the beautiful, joy-giving virtue of chastity (not in the video, though.)
@Koprarott: Interesting that little attention is dedicated by The Occidental Observer to the Gypsy phenomenon, almost as singular as the Jewish one. And yes, integration of the Romani is an utopian fantasy, to which anyone living in continental Europe will attest.
@Tony:
Whites don’t need religion, they just need to deify their own race the way the tribe does. That, combined with smart eugenic practices, will keep Whites together.
Either that or we go back to the gods of Greece and Rome, and raise our children learning about how they interact with the natural forces of earth. Sounds good to me.
@Richard:
What a beautiful video! Thanks. I know nothing about the theological differences , but if you believe that ‘by their fruits shall you know them’ then Mormons are impressive. All of the Mormons I have ever met have been decent, pleasant, self-sufficient family people.
@Athanasius: My grandparents loved Jeeboo more than my race. Your point?
According to Rogozin, the opinion polls say “…50 to 75% of Russian citizens advocate the separation of the North Caucasus — in whole or in part — from the rest of Russia.” Maybe these Russians see the North Caucasus as a kind of cancer and want to remove it from the Russian body. There may come a time real soon when most white Americans want to be rid of California because it has become re-Mexicanized. In other words, essentially reverting back to its racial/ethnic makeup as of the 1840′s prior to its annexation by the US and the gold rush. It may be a simple matter of asking the question “is this land and its people an asset or a liability to the larger country?”
@Alice Teller:
You’re welcome, Mrs. Teller. I’m glad you enjoyed it. Have a good day or night.
Same goes for everyone reading this. If it’s ok, I want to say I love you all.
He’s kinda dodging the question and being a bit iffy in my book.
Assimilation is a myth. No one has ever been assimilated since the dawn of time. The only thing that has happened is one population has demographically annihilated the genetics of another population.
So…..he needs to do whatever it takes to grow the Russian core in purity and not combine it with any nonsense.
@Haris:
Every ethnic minority in any country is a potential fifth column.
“White minorities” in “white countries” are no exception.
Let me just say that, religious differences aside, I stand resolutely behind our main cause, which is the survival of our people. I re-iterate also that I firmly believe in the freedom of religion, on an individual basis. I simply cannot agree with the arguments that “Christian values” and preservation of a heritage that long predates that religion, are mutually inclusive. I also strongly disagree with this writer’s implication that the rise in secularisation is part of our downfall, just as I am 100% certain our rise throughout the Centuries was due to our attributes as people – genetic or otherwise – and in spite, NOT because of, Christianity.
@Celtic_Heathen: I don’t think anyone is arguing for Islamic-style forced adherence to Christianity. I agree that freedom of conscience is important.
I also think it’s important that we maintain traditions that promote group cohesion, admittedly fewer in Protestantism than in Catholicism or Orthodoxy. Regardless, Christian promotion of sexual fidelity and family preservation is exactly what we need right now.
@anon: What, are you a mestizo?
We aren’t just finches with different shaped beaks. Along with our phenotype, we have a shared historical experience and a developed culture. Like it or not, Christianity is essential to that. Insofar as that’s the case, Christianity contains the traditions that provide cohort cohesiveness.
@Celtic_Heathen:
I think most of us are on the same page. I’m happy to serve alongside you in order to help protect white people. I don’t think any pro-White movement should try to force people to believe in something that can’t be proven; and Christianity cannot be proven in the traditional sense. It’s a faith.
I was reading some religious stuff earlier, and the experts and scholars seem to disagree about so many important things regarding Christianity and Juadaism and Paul, etc.
It’s overwhelming. I’m not sure what to believe about the specifics, and there are a lot of them.
But I do want to use the rest of this comment to share my personal experience. I’ll try to keep it short.
I was raised Christian, but never actually believed in it. I did my best to follow the rules and whatnot. But I didn’t have a real relationship with God or Christ.
The past couple years I have been thinking more about Christianity and even reading a small amount of books. (I don’t read as much as a lot of others in this community.)
Some of the stuff I read helped me understand Christianity, the essence of it.
A few weeks ago, for the first time in my life, I had a moment when I believed that Jesus was the son of God and came to die for each of us, to give us new life in God. And I felt a wonderful peace and joy in that moment. Since that day (a few weeks ago) I’ve experienced perspectives and moments and thoughts and feelings that I’ve never had before. Some of them were/are so beautiful and heavenly.
It comes down to faith. There might never be consensus from scholars or so-called experts about who Jesus was or what happened in his life or how his life compares to previous mythological figures, etc.
But the proof of Christianity is in the transformed lives. Some people are fundamentally changed in great ways. People who believe, not just with their spoken or mental words, but actually believe, that God loves them so much that he died for them… they are given a new spirit. I’m not sure I’m supposed to share this, but maybe I am.
So after months of my desire to understand Christianity better, that’s where I’m at now.
Have a good day, all. (Thanks for reading.)
Fender says on 1/14/12 @ 1:20 pm in part:
“Having an empire will be pointless if the result is a mongrelized population with a low IQ. Above all else the Russians need to get their core population up. The biggest problem is Slavic men, who are indifferent to life and only care about their alcohol and cigarettes. They die young and can’t hold jobs…”
The oligarchy in charge of such an empire will not care, of course, and it may be that we have been examining the situation of the diverse white Americans from the wrong end of the telescope, or at least neglecting to examine the situation from both ends. And the other end is examining the morphing of a republic with many characteristics of an oligarchy in the 1780s to an empire with many characteristics of an oligarchy in 2012.
From that view, the treatment of the diverse white American peoples is in no way different from how similar cultures and entities like Venice, Athens, and Rome treated their founding peoples. Each of these city states enjoyed its greatest boom times as a republic and then morphed into empires.
There have been many monarchies that morphed into empires, e.g., England and Russia, but the republics that morphed into empires provide our best overall blueprint for our present situation. And in each case of the latter, we see the destruction of the founding peoples and the substitution of new peoples who ultimately fall to quarreling over what they see as almost magical plenty, and bring it all down. I don’t believe that a declinist outcome for us is pre-ordained, especially if we study examples in the past.
What this means is that we must enlarge our vision, and sort through all kinds of distorting discourse (ranging from the declinist rant of “America is dying” to the missionary rant of “We must save the world”) and understand the oppression of the diverse white Americans in the USA as a well known part of the oligarch’s tool box, partly to keep us off-balance in order to keep their own place, and partly to teach us our place in the coming order as serfs, soldiers, and taxpayers. That’s the lot of the founding peoples in all empires that began as republics heretofore.
For those of you who love unending analysis (and paralysis in action), please tackle the question of how republics morph into empires and then treat the founding peoples, and how & whether founding peoples in Venice, Athens, and Rome were able to fight back to see if we can learn what we need to know.
@Richard:
It’s all smoke and mirrors Richard. The Old Testament, The New Testament, the LDS literature, the Jehova’s lit, the Koran, the Torah… all a joke, a mockery of us, the human race.
How did we become into existence? Perhaps a sadistic lizard from another galaxy. Whatever the source, the fine music and soft spoken words don’t mask the astounding cruelty and sheer violence that lies just under the skin of humanity.
Today it’s Our Lord, tomorrow it’s their ‘God’, either way painting man as an eternal being is akin to putting lipstick on a pig. Face what we are, a very brutal creature, cunning yes, but never to be trusted.
I can’t believe I’m in human form. It seems very strange to me.
@dan:
May I suggest that it is the eternal being in you prompting that sense of incredibility. After all, if you were entirely human you would not even question the cruelty and violence, you would merely revile in it.
While you are quite right that we can be very nasty indeed, it is religion and only religion that has had any success in persuading us to try to be better.
The great religious traditions are not smoke and mirrors, they are, at the very least, fabulous tales. No matter how dark things and may look now, and how angry and disappointed you are in authority in the world you have inherited, do not be fooled into believing that our traditions and heritage are worthless. Very imperfect, yes. But you are here now and you can help us fix things.
Russia’s main problems are graft damn near rivaling that of Sub-Saharan Africa, substance dependence and abortion culture.
(According to individuals with inside knowledge in the past 10 years alone as much as $400 billion may have been siphoned off to off-shore accounts by various corrupt Russian officials, FSB-connected businessmen, and their mobbed up colleagues.)
Prior to world economic crisis, Moscow boasted the largest concentration of dollar billionaires on the planet. Which was @ the time when a typical white collar job in that city had barely started to pay $500 a month.
The issue of ethnic (read: Mohammedan) crime in Russia while significant had largely been overblown by the Judaic media so as to deflect the attention of Russian public from the criminality of their fellow tribesmen involved since the early 1990s in every type of plunder and thievery imaginable.
On a related note, nearly ¾ of opinion shaping resources on the Russian web are said to be controlled by Russian speaking Israeli nationals.
Rogozin personally doesn’t strike me as someone capable of stringing up half a dozen coherent sentences in order to get his point across.
@dan:
It’s all smoke and mirrors Richard. The Old Testament, The New Testament, the LDS literature, the Jehova’s lit, the Koran, the Torah… all a joke, a mockery of us, the human race.
How did we become into existence? Perhaps a sadistic lizard from another galaxy. Whatever the source, the fine music and soft spoken words don’t mask the astounding cruelty and sheer violence that lies just under the skin of humanity.
Today it’s Our Lord, tomorrow it’s their ‘God’, either way painting man as an eternal being is akin to putting lipstick on a pig. Face what we are, a very brutal creature, cunning yes, but never to be trusted.
I appreciate your honest thoughts, Dan. And I can resonate with some of what you wrote.
I think it’s a good thing to realize that we humans are capable of horrible things. The word “horrible” is a serious word; its basic meaning is “to cause a feeling of horror”.
I think heaven and hell exist, and hell is probably horrible to a degree we are incapable of imagining. (In the same way that heaven’s beauty and joy are beyond our understanding.)
My point is, the evil things we humans are capable of thinking/feeling/doing are a small taste of the horrors of hell. And the beautiful moments I’ve experienced since I started believing that Christ died for me are, I hope, a small taste of heaven. I hope we are all there some day. It wouldn’t be heaven without other people there to love. Giving love is a heavenly experience. I love white people and trying to serve them has been a real treat.
@Richard:
Mormon cult is a scam. Anybody who believes this low-brow lunacy cannot be smart. I worked with lots of Mormons – never met more shallow and intellectually boring individuals. They are nice [because they want to convert u, duh], but dumb (more like brainwashed) – all of them. The smart ones left.
p.s. and they love Israel.
http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/104253/joseph-smith-part-1
@Alice Teller:
Yes, I have found this to be my own experience and moreover
that of about everyone I tip a glass with. It leaves me wondering if any politico adviser who sees mileage in the
Mormonism “issue” has a good nose for what’s grassroots real.
@Jarvis Dingle-Daden:
A person in academic publishing I worked with in the early 90′s and who had traveled in out of that nation since about 1980 or so, told me that it was astonishing how many of the people in leadership positions in the old USSR she had encountered had simply “morphed” into capitalists overnight.
@Walter L: Good comment; thank you. Very largely seconded, especially the hilarious bits.
Buried somewhere in a box in a closet is my old K&E magnesium slide rule. You have made me want to dig it out. Would it fetch even five bucks on eBay, I wonder?
@andy: I think I may have known the same guy.
@Pierre de Craon: Oops; on second reading I see that you knew a woman. Sorry I missed that bit.
@andy:
I have wondered. Sure looks like ethnic identity, social cohesion, and decent morals based on a shared religion have worked for them. I have seen very similar families in the Mennonite community. I live in hope.
@Pierre de Craon:
Please never part with it. Come the collapse you may be the only man in Christendom who can use one.
@Tony:
It existed. It was murdered.
@pilbo:
Well, that’s a bit mysterious. Want to expand?
Are you referring to Christ being murdered?
I am definitely not a fan of Christianity, but if it does anything to help our people to survive and compete, sobeit, and I won’t complain about that aspect. But I’d like to see something better. Not an easy task. Think about it. What would YOU devise in the way of a religion?@pilbo:
‘Integration of post-Soviet space an alternative to uncontrolled migration’ — RT
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Putin trumpets Russia’s ‘cultural dominance’ — RT
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