Is Jared Lee Loughner Jewish?

The Jewish Telegraph Agency picked up the Fox memo and ran with it, emphasizing the idea that Loughner targeted Giffords because she was Jewish: “Memo Notes Giffords’ Judaism in Motives of Alleged Attacker.” American Renaissance is (absurdly) described as “anti-ZOG (Zionist Occupational Government) [and] anti-Semitic.”

However, Mother Jones reports that Jared Lee Loughner’s best friend claims that Loughner’s mother is Jewish. This would seem to be a problem for the anti-Semitism motive.  According to the friend, Loughner disliked Giffords because she didn’t properly answer his question at a public meeting. The question: “‘What is government if words have no meaning?”

In other words, he is a nut case who has trouble with distinguishing real from unreal. From the description provided by the friend, it looks to me like some kind of schizophrenia–for example, believing in an alternate reality where he could fly and where he could dream anything he wanted and make it seem real.

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In fact one of his YouTube videos combines the nutcase theme with the Jewish theme. In “My Final Thoughts: Jared Lee Loughner!” he says,  “If B.C.E. years are unable to start then A.D.E years are unable to begin. B.C.E. years are unable to start. Thus, A.D.E years are unable to begin.” (See here.) Besides the weirdness of the syllogism, B.C.E. stands for Before Common Era, a way that Jewish scholars commonly refer to the period before Christ was born without referring to anything Christian. Non-Jews don’t use it unless they are trying to impress Jews with their respect for Jewish hostility toward Christianity.

But the A.D.E. is not standard usage for anyone. Jewish scholars just write C.E.–Common Era and the rest of us use A.D. So maybe it’s just another aspect of his craziness.

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180 Comments to "Is Jared Lee Loughner Jewish?"

  1. Rehmat's Gravatar Rehmat
    March 7, 2011 - 3:34 pm | Permalink

    Hi Kevin – had you defended him as a ‘nutcase’ – had he been a Muslim? Just curious, eh!

    http://rehmat1.wordpress.com/2010/09/06/zionists-myth-of-radical-islam/

    • Athanasius's Gravatar Athanasius
      March 7, 2011 - 4:39 pm | Permalink

      Saying he is a nutcase is a defense?

  2. M's Gravatar M
    February 20, 2011 - 1:28 pm | Permalink

    Some digging into JLL–

    On JLs YT page, it says I *HAD* favorite books, of these the majority are fantasy themed.
    MKULTRA is said to use triggers “such as the lyrics of nursery rhymes and lullabies and childrens’ stories”.
    Taking an anagram sample of “Jared Loughner” with the word “read” we find:

    Read John Gruel

    Johnny Gruelle is a writer of childrens stories and the creator of Raggedy ann and andy.
    He died Jan 8, 1938.
    Jan 8 is the date of the assassination event.

    Classitup=Cult As Psi
    ===

    One of assassins fav books- “One Flew over the Cukoo’s Nest” by Kenneth Kesey, was based on thinking of Ronald David Laing, a Scottish Psychiatrist which put forth the foundation of the Anti-Psychiatry movement. He maintained that schizophrenia was “a theory not a fact”, he was a Scott.

    The Scottish word for “not” is “Nae”

    “Judge Roll Nae Here”=Judge Roll (Not) Here

    “Judge Roll Nae Here” is an anagram of “Jared Lee Loughner”

    On Oct 31, 1963, President John F. Kennedy’s Community Mental Health Centers Act is passed, accelerating the trend toward deinstitutionalization.

    22 days later JFK was assassinated. Though JLL lists 33(!) as his age on user/Starhitshnaz, he is actually 22.

    The FIRST video posted on Classitup10 is Nov 22, the day of JFK assassination.

    The ONLY vid on Starhitshnaz is on Oct 02, the day five school girls are murdered at an Amish school AND the day the Beltway sniper attacks began

    Other dates of his vids:

    Nov 30 — Brady Bill, Seattle NWO Protest

    Dec 06 — 25th Amendment Pres Ford Appointed

    Dec 15 — Bill of Rights Ratified, Carter Recognized China and cuts off relations with Taiwan

  3. January 20, 2011 - 12:08 pm | Permalink

    The “Good Son” Problem is THE PROBLEM – Incogman
    AFTER JARED LOUGHNER was revealed to be at least partially Jewish through his mother’s ancestry (technically making him a full-on Jewboy); this leads to a pertinent question: Does having Jewish genetics in any way lead to such criminal behavior? Or does it have something to do with how they are brought up?
    http://incogman.net/01/2011/the-good-son-problem-is-the-problem/#more-52961

  4. January 19, 2011 - 1:32 am | Permalink

    Caleb writes
    The deaths from all causes came to 56,000. “Starved” is your interpretation. I dispute that President Roosevelt ever declared a policy to punish ordinary German people Among them there was much suffering though not so much as among the Nazis’ victims.
    I address not Caleb but others reading this. We need people who can dig into this stuff, academics who are not afraid for the advancement of their career, who are definitely not Jewish or beholden to pro-Jewish forces in the universities. To readers of this post, I say don’t get too intimidated by Caleb’s sources.
    Years ago on an internet discussion group I got involved with a Jewish person who was questioning the strong involvement of Jewish people in the Bolshevist revolution. He seemed to give good stats against everything I brought up. Years later, with MacDonald and also with Yuri Slezkind’s “The Jewish Century”, I find that Jewish people really were very big time involved with the atrocities of Bolshevism.
    I could get involved in a personal argument with Caleb on this or that, but he would win. Like I said, we need sources with knowledgeable investigation that we can trust, and not a source that we have been cleverly deceived into trusting ( and we also need these more trustworthy sources to look into popular sources of our times).

  5. January 17, 2011 - 10:04 pm | Permalink

    David Longley writes
    January 17, 2011

    Let me short-circuit this.
    I’m afraid this gets more questionable all the time. Hide behind massive amounts of obscure words. You were the one who gave the link, and I was very curious about a certain part of the article, and you asked if I could be more specific, and I was, with great effort on my part. But now you ignore what I wrote and say “let me short-circuit this”. This is not the approach of science.

    Now you go on and give another link.
    If you wish, you can see a very practical elaboration of that in the file:
    http://www.longley.demon.co.uk/Frag.htm

    Oh sure, and the article at this link just happens to be around 300 thousand characters long. Nice.

    • January 18, 2011 - 6:27 am | Permalink

      It seems to me that this is only obscure to you because it’s unfamiliar to you, i.e. through your lack of formal education in this area? The main paper by Quine which I pointed you to is now a classic publication in C20th philosophy, logic and the philosophy of science as it redefined empircism. the last third of which is the Quine-Duhem Thesis. The link above which you cited is just a public domain summary of a decade long piece (hundreds of man/woman years) of applied (government) work in a context which might give you some idea of how this sort of practical issue works out in reality. Compared to what you would have to read elsewhere, it’s very short (at under 100 pages).

  6. January 17, 2011 - 9:46 pm | Permalink

    Continuing with the fast moving insanity,
    http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/01/17/tea-party-leader-shocked-by-threat-from-arizona-survivor/
    one of the survivors of the Arizona shooting, shouting before an audience, “You are dead!” to the founder of the Arizona Tea Party. The survivor also blames national Tea Party leaders. The survivor then went to Jarred Loughner’s home asking ?? others to forgive Jarred – the video is a little unclear on this point. The press is fogging over the event by stressing psychological issues.

  7. January 17, 2011 - 1:17 pm | Permalink

    henry baxley writes
    Did the deified “founding fathers” allow their children to vote?….I think not, and for good reason. People in large groups will vote themselves down the toilet every time (sooner or later) …
    Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. I laugh so hard because your very earthy statement has such a significant element of truth. Some of your other statements are the same. I guess if one met in, for instance, a pizza place every week, some of these issues could be fleshed out more, and even some position papers might be produced. Anyway, it seems this discussion thread is finally getting into a little more depth, although it is extremely hard to type so much long stuff on a keyboard. But that pretty much seems to be the unavoidable reality.

  8. January 17, 2011 - 12:26 pm | Permalink

    David Longley writes

    Can you be a little more explict about what you see the problem to be?

    If H(ypothesis) Then O(observation)
    Not O(bservation)
    Therefore
    Not H(ypothesis)

    Thanks. Yes, I can be more explicit. Can you give me an example of H and O in terms of the white swans and Australian black swans —

    This is In reference to
    http://philosophy.wisc.edu/forster/220/Notes2.html and search for “black Australian swan”. This is immediately followed by the Modus Tollens. It is exactly as you give the Modus Tollens above. And the sentence (in the article at the link) that I am curious about is “For we can prove that “All swans are white” by observing a black Australian swan. ” . And then the article refers to the Modus Tollens.

    I seek an example where you state the exact statements that H and O are to be taken as. The statements have to have the words black, white, swan, in them. By the way, this might involve several iterations, as you and I go back and forth, honing in on exactly what the issue is.

    • January 17, 2011 - 1:17 pm | Permalink

      Let me short-circuit this. Logic is about validity, not truth. Science=Pursuit of Truth. A major breakthrough was made in 1879 by Frege when he de-psychologised logical inference, and then by Quine in 1951 when he published ‘Two Dogmas of Empiricism’. There is also no need to go down the route of Popper, Kuhn or Lakatos, all of whom seem a tad confused in that they tend to blur truth and validity whilst not clearly writing about behaviour. Quine (not Jewish) went on to publish “Pursuit of Truth” and “From Stimulus To Science” which makes his holism and anti-mentalism points even more clearly. What you should have taken away from the earlier link was:

      “Quine-Duhem Thesis: Any seemingly disconfirming observational evidence can always be accommodated by any theory.”

      If you wish, you can see a very practical elaboration of that in the file: http://www.longley.demon.co.uk/Frag.htm

      Note, the context and relevance of this for this thread, and others, is that when we refer to groups or classes, and when we ascribe or otherwise ascertain class memberships, it’s critically important how we quantify into those classes if we are not to risk making inflammatory assertions or making actuarially poor decisions in the context of the management of uncertainty/risk (see context of above link, and one today on NYC and Madoff etc).

  9. TicTac's Gravatar TicTac
    January 17, 2011 - 12:17 pm | Permalink

    if you remove the time on when people post then that makes it really complicated to zero in on a specific poster—one who may be a potential future leader—Jews select their targets intelligently.

    once you’ve intercepted TOO’s traffic and reconstructed it, you get tons of data, and it’s simple to link a certain ip with a certain poster because of the time and date it was posted.

    once you got the ip, with a certain code on the *ip*, google earth will take you right to the ip holders house! Target aquired!

    see all those wn on YouTube, some of them haven’t signed into their accounts for months, years! Don’t you think that’s strange? Aryans who’ve just vanished.

    unless of course you don’t think this is a war and the Jews wouldn’t remove potential future wn leaders. They’d never take out high profile guys like Mac but the low profile guys are easy prey.

  10. January 16, 2011 - 9:47 pm | Permalink

    David Longley @.

    I strongly suspect that the use of modus tollens that occurs in the article at the link you gave to us
    http://philosophy.wisc.edu/forster/220/Notes2.html
    is invalid according to the standard rules of symbolic logic.
    (I don’t intend this comment as unfriendly, only as an important question that I have regarding this logical deduction.)

    • January 17, 2011 - 9:44 am | Permalink

      Can you be a little more explict about what you see the problem to be?

      If H(ypothesis) Then O(observation)
      Not O(bservation)
      Therefore
      Not H(ypothesis)

      For a practical elaboration in terms of the Quine-Duhem thesis, click username and look into Frag.htm.

  11. January 16, 2011 - 2:01 pm | Permalink

    Caleb January 16, 2011 – 11:30 am Like Connie Francis and **Martha** Stewart (not their true or original names), Jon Stewart wanted to express solidarity with YOU.”

    Any data on how often non marital name-changing in pursuit of assimilation subsequently reveals itself to be disingenuous (or even an entryist strategy) through an analysis of financial and social relationships? A few doing this could be explained in many ways, so one would need evidence of a significant majority doing this to credibly assert that it was the rule. Furtermore, do other immigrant groups change their names and subsequently ethnically network in the same way? If so, it would have to be shown that other groups do so with a different frequency. ‘They’ can be a nebulous (and divisive) referent. Even if some groups do this. Is it illegal? Should it be illegal? Could it be made illegal, and could it ever be realistically policed?

  12. TicTac's Gravatar TicTac
    January 16, 2011 - 11:42 am | Permalink

    Protect Yourself

    It’s easy for our enemies to intercept TOO’s traffic-observe IP’s, without anyone even knowing. And if the Jews ever reach a position as they did in 20s-30s in Russia then we can all rest assured that we will be tracked and sent to some Jew dungeon for some Jew fun.

    Use a IP mask, proxy.

    Don’t use Microsoft Windows.

    Get a network monitoring programme to make sure you aint being targeted. This will tell you who’s connecting to your system. And if you track some IP back to Israel — lol

    you’re already caught and your name’s in the Jew-book.

    TT

    • Someday's Gravatar Someday
      January 16, 2011 - 1:32 pm | Permalink

      TT’s advice is naive and could lead to people thinking they can say questionable things anonymously. Don’t believe it, they can find out who you are if they want. The best way to get them interested in finding out who you are: say questionable things while trying to conceal your identity.

    • TicTac's Gravatar TicTac
      January 16, 2011 - 2:37 pm | Permalink

      Someday,

      It’s not a question of what you say (unless you’re pro-Jewish) It’s about what websites you visit and the pro-white comments you post-that’s what’s potentially dangerous.

      What’s wrong with taking security measures?

      It’s pretty simple stuff, and keeps you relatively hidden.

      TT

    • Caleb's Gravatar Caleb
      January 17, 2011 - 10:17 am | Permalink

      Why stop at such half measures, TicTac?
      Jamming devices can be made microchip size nowadays. Have one implanted in your skull so that when the Jews try to listen in on your thoughts–we know they have the capability–they will hear only a deep, unpleasant buzzing sound.
      [Of course, when you try to hear your OWN thoughts, you will hear only a deep, unpleasant buzzing but you’ll have countered the nefarious plans of the you-know-who…]

    • TicTac's Gravatar TicTac
      January 17, 2011 - 10:56 am | Permalink

      Just trying to give you some security advise.

      This site aint even encrypted

  13. January 16, 2011 - 12:15 am | Permalink

    David Longley writes

    1. I’m sorry about the typo (no spell checker). I take it you still knew what the word was however? Written text is quite tolerant this way. Context provides cues. Hence txt by mobiles.

    Good enough, more or less. I don’t know if I’m afraid to ask why no spell checker.

    2. It’s Quinean. When I don’t undrstand something I take it as a cue to go and find out. I urge other to do the same. Making a low estimate of a group’s ability to follow would surely just dumb down this blog? I’m trying to make a helpful contribution, not just sustain the status quo.

    Speaking from my own point of view, the answer you give is somewhat good enough. There is the complicated issue of how much to adjust one’s language for the people one is speaking to. If one has very technical information, it seems not right to use that in speaking to a wider audience.

    3. A major break with metaphysics (by postivists/scientists) in the C20th came via an appreciation that intensions or properties were not what had been assumed, and that science traffics in extension and relations not intensions. See Quine’s ‘Pursuit of Truth’ and ‘From Stimulus To Science’ for more.

    Maybe I’ll take a look at it. If I didn’t have some knowledge already of these things, I would never take a look at, and even if I did, I would not understand it. I take intension as something I myself call meaning, or something closer to meaning. Science and math go a long way to reducing stuff to a bedrock of extension – that stuff in the material world that falls under the intension.

    4. I mentioned name-calling because many people here are doing just that, perhaps without appreciating how and why. They are not critically asking what they are referring to. How is class membership determined? …

    Yes. I have come to possibly the same conclusion (I say “possibly”, because it takes some work to focus more in on what a person’s ideas are). In all of these discussions of rightwing versus whatever, no one has focused on the fact that it all comes down to a few issues around evaluating certain basic forms of simple generic statements, and once one has done that, a huge amount comes into possibly surprisingly solid focus.

    While we’re talking about various things. In your link
    http://philosophy.wisc.edu/forster/220/Notes2.html
    there is mention of modus tollens.
    1) At the article at this link, is modus tollens being used to prove “we can prove that ‘All swans are white’ by observing a black Australian swan. “? I can’t really tell because of the length and details of this long article.

    2) On a separate topic. Your use of the word “whilest”. I’m in the US and back in 1776 we had this revolution which lead to many things. One was a break with the British language and with ideas of aristocracy. “whilst” is one of the words that many of us here shy away from, especially those of us in the non-coastal north west states of the US. We have this feeling that a word like “whilest” is putting on airs without substance behind the airs. I’m not making any claims that the feeling corresponds to reality. Nor am I making claims to the opposite. Anyway, of higher priority for me is the issue of black swans.

    • January 16, 2011 - 5:11 am | Permalink

      Just one or two further comments. The last third of Quine’s ‘Two Dogmas of Empircism’ (1951) was a subtle critique of the second dogma, i.e reductionism, namely that simple statements are held up to tests of refuting evidence, they’re not – it’s critical mass that matters. This opens up a lot of complex issues to do with ‘underdetermination’ (evdience and theory) and holism. The essential point is that science is a very pragmatic affair, and it’s a set of behaviours. What we replace a working rule with is just a ‘better’ working rule, i.e. one which allows us to make ‘better’ predictions (stimulation of our sensory surfaces) and thus allow us to better manage or make our way in the world.

      In the context of this thread, what does ‘being Jewish’ usefully refer to? Are we to class all people who have a Jewish mother as being the same (clearly a nonsense taken literally, they are not MZ twins, and even these female twins differ subtly)? Should we not perhaps just see this matriarchal lineage as something of use apropos (non nuclear) mitochrondrial DNA, endogamy and how endogamy (a gene-barrier) is of use when one is looking at behaviour(s) epidemiologically)? If so, which behaviours, and where does one start? What does one hold constrant and how? Should we take any of the Personality Disorders, and/or more positively, high (verbal) ‘g’ (look into spatial ability on average amongt Jewish people). Females tend to have higher verbal than spatial IQ, and males the reverse, so, should we be looking at the relationship between this sex difference and the prevalence of disorders on Axis II Cluster B in DSM-IV, bearing in mind that brain-gender can be quite different to genital gender (see posts on NCAH and CYP21 on an autosome C6p21). Brain gender is a continnum not a dichotomy. What are the impications of this for sexual identity and emitted behaviours? Are some female behavioural traits showing up in males more in some ethnic groups than others? What might the consequences of this be? What phenotypes are we using when we classify/group? Should we cluster on genotype rather than phenotypes etc?

      This is where all this is leading – or should be I suggest.

  14. Someday's Gravatar Someday
    January 15, 2011 - 3:18 pm | Permalink

    The late Aleksandr Ginsburg was only half Jewish by ancestry and did not practice the Mosaic faith. He adopted his mother’s family name in protest of Stalin’s antisemitic campaign

    Did Jon Stewart change his name to express solidarity with his mother’s people?

    • Caleb's Gravatar Caleb
      January 16, 2011 - 11:30 am | Permalink

      Like Connie Francis and **Martha** Stewart (not their true or original names), Jon Stewart wanted to express solidarity with YOU.

    • Someday's Gravatar Someday
      January 16, 2011 - 12:59 pm | Permalink

      Then why didn’t he change his name to John Stewart ?

  15. Michael's Gravatar Michael
    January 15, 2011 - 2:58 pm | Permalink

    This thread (site) infiltrated by Jewish internet task force agents?

    Take a look : Israel is paying internet workers to manipulate online content

  16. January 15, 2011 - 12:15 pm | Permalink

    The WWII historical debate is off-topic. Would you guys care to take it elsewhere?

    • Jason Speaks's Gravatar Jason Speaks
      January 15, 2011 - 1:53 pm | Permalink

      Wow there are now guidelines for posting! Sounds good. At some point this site will have define what a “White nationalist” is, because if some of the posters are to be believed, some White nationalists across as anti-American, going all the way back to attacks on the Founders. If that is White nationalism, they will fail. And I’ll make sure they do.

    • Caleb's Gravatar Caleb
      January 15, 2011 - 2:21 pm | Permalink

      Fine with me, Prof–er, I mean Matt.
      I was not the one who started the rant about “Eisenhower death camps”.

  17. January 15, 2011 - 9:38 am | Permalink

    If your a White/European in the united states your the enemy, any White person that hasn’t realized this must be living in La La land. When White people become an minority (that can only be stopped by ending all immigation) in the US we will have no one to protect our “God given rights” or any peace in our own country founded by our ancestors. White people with be in the same dangerous situation the White South African people face who’s families lived for hundreds of years, now there being slaughtered by the savages who still eat their grandmothers.

  18. January 15, 2011 - 5:07 am | Permalink

    David Longley writes

    Scientific explanations are at least Observation Categoricals (i.e functinal relations of at least two variables). They are not simple properties, or names. A lot of what has been posted here is just name calling.

    1) “functinal” is spelled “functional”.
    2) most people in this discussion group are not going to know what “observational categoricals” are. I don’t even know what they are. So your comment does not help explain stuff to people in this discussion.
    3) Granted, a relation on 2 or more variables is not a property nor is it a name (a 0-ary relation).
    4) None of this is related to “name calling”. So why do you mention “name calling” after talking about categoricals and relations of more than one variable. Some areas of philosophy get into very strange language. But still.

    • January 15, 2011 - 6:45 am | Permalink

      1. I’m sorry about the typo (no spell checker). I take it you still knew what the word was however? Written text is quite tolerant this way. Context provides cues. Hence txt by mobiles.
      2. It’s Quinean. When I don’t undrstand something I take it as a cue to go and find out. I urge other to do the same. Making a low estimate of a group’s ability to follow would surely just dumb down this blog? I’m trying to make a helpful contribution, not just sustain the status quo.
      3. A major break with metaphysics (by postivists/scientists) in the C20th came via an appreciation that intensions or properties were not what had been assumed, and that science traffics in extension and relations not intensions. See Quine’s ‘Pursuit of Truth’ and ‘From Stimulus To Science’ for more.
      4. I mentioned name-calling because many people here are doing just that, perhaps without appreciating how and why. They are not critically asking what they are referring to. How is class membership determined? Elsewhere I have drawn attention to the relationship between the existental and universal quantifiers (which determine reference and deductive, rational inference) – Some and All – where Some(x)=Not(all(x)) All(x)=Not(Some(x)) and Some(x)=At_Least_One(x). When many people talk about groups, what measures are they using to refer to class membership? Are they being consistent across groups? When they refer to a member of a class or several, do they not do so probabilistically? If so, would that not urge caution? This is about actuarial analysis, and avoiding eliciting unnecessary hostility through unjustified stereotyping, whilst still making valid statements about group behaviour.

  19. TicTac's Gravatar TicTac
    January 14, 2011 - 5:06 pm | Permalink

    I heard this story on the news and prayed to God he wasn’t a white advocate. Turns out he’s got a Jewish mum? That explains his crazyness. He’s a Jew. No doubt the Jews will burry this story.

    Come to think of it, I havn’t seen nothing on the news in Britain about him since the story broke.

  20. January 14, 2011 - 1:50 pm | Permalink

    Caleb @

    Where did you earn your degree in twentieth century history, Crom? By sending in box tops, by the sound of it.
    The names of the Jewish dissidents are well known–Shcharansky, Yuli Daniel, Ginzburg–as is the terms they served in the Gulag beside their gentile fellow dissidents.

    Caleb, the first paragraph isn’t needed. Regarding the second paragraph, the vast majority of people don’t know these people are Jewish, let alone that they were in the Gulag system. [something really important to me – where could we find a statement that these people were Jewish, ideally a statement that would appear to most people to be a reliable source – even better an online source – but if not online, ideally the more people considered a reliable source, the better.]

    • Caleb's Gravatar Caleb
      January 14, 2011 - 3:03 pm | Permalink

      How’s this, William?
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuli_Daniel
      The late Aleksandr Ginsburg was only half Jewish by ancestry and did not practice the Mosaic faith. He adopted his mother’s family name in protest of Stalin’s antisemitic campaign which ended only with his sudden death.
      Does one have to prove that ex **Knesset** member Natan (Anatoly) Shcharanasky is Jewish?
      I can’t exactly PROVE the Pope is Catholic, but he’s got that nice outfit, fancy ring and a totally cool way of saying hello.

  21. January 14, 2011 - 11:37 am | Permalink

    ” Through the intervention of the A.D.L. we Jews have succeeded in muzzling the non-Jewish press to the extent that newspapers in America abstain from pointing out that ANY PERSON unfavorably referred to. . . IS A JEW. ”

    – Bernard Joseph Brown.”
    From Pharaoh to Hitler, What is a Jew?” 1933

    “You make MUCH noise and fury about the UNDUE Jewish influence in YOUR theaters and movie palaces. Very good: YOUR complaint IS WELL-founded.

    BUT what is that compared TO OUR staggering influence in YOUR churches, YOUR schools, YOUR laws and YOUR government, and THE VERY THOUGHTS YOU THINK EVERY DAY?”

    – Marcus Eli Ravage, Century Magazine, 1928, p.347

  22. Julian BCE's Gravatar Julian BCE
    January 14, 2011 - 10:48 am | Permalink

    Markoff was eventually outed, after the passions settled, and Madoff was also castigated. They had Jewish victims. Jared”s case is trickier, because Giffords wasn’t a pure blood, but rather saw which way the political money flowed after her Hajj to the Mother Ship. It has to eventuallly come out, but we are a land of 300 million, and in a few months it will be Jared Who? The Neonazzy.
    As an aside, we technically use the Julian Calender, not the true Christian Calender, although anti-Christians use BCE/ADE in hostility, not enlightenment.

    • January 14, 2011 - 4:36 pm | Permalink

      Who lives in the USA? Answer: nobody lives in the USA, they live in a state, city/town/village and ‘household’ within the USA. What’s a ‘household’ in economics? Most people assume they know, but it’s a tricky class term used by statisticians and economists.

      Here’s another one, what’s the population of NYC? What’s the demography (by ethnicity) of NYC? What’s the cognitive and economic hegemony of NYC as a consequence of known IQ distributions and ethnicty? See comment 5 and later below:

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/newsnight/2007/09/wednesday_19_september_2007.html

      Such questions are rarely asked or answered with care and attention. What’s the financial capital of the USA?

  23. barb's Gravatar barb
    January 14, 2011 - 9:45 am | Permalink

    ” many of us are basically, for better or worse, conservative. Our grandfathers fought in WWII….we don’t want to think of them fighting for something bad.”

    Emotionalism, what we waaaaaaaaaannnnnnt, change how we perceive things so we feeeeeeel better, is leftist / progressive. NOT conservative.
    “Conservative” is the rational, hard-nosed acceptance of reality. We are conservative because we know that reality is what it is, regardless of how we feel about it, and our ancestors found out what works the HARD way, so we conserve their solutions in order to avoid reliving their troubles.
    So conservative MEANS acceptance of reality, even if that reality is, our grandfathers fought for a bad thing. That does not mean we BLAME our grandfathers. They were misled, as has happened, in reality, countless times before throughout history. Not only misled to think they were doing a good thing, but DRAFTED to do it, regardless of what they thought.
    So the CONSERVATIVE thing to do is realize they fought for a bad thing, a bad, progressive, thing, and therefore avoid reliving their mistakes by returning to the (pre-WWII) Old Ways of Nationalism.

  24. Joyce's Gravatar Joyce
    January 14, 2011 - 3:05 am | Permalink

    You can trace many of our problems to the last huge wave of immigration at the start of the last century. J. Edgar Hoover had rightly sought to deport over 60,000 undesirables, mainly red agitators and organized criminals. Who stopped him? Jewish money, no doubt, and naive, white female do-gooders.

  25. By Crom's Gravatar By Crom
    January 13, 2011 - 3:58 pm | Permalink

    Caleb: “Dissident”, you call yourself? A blasphemy on those who stood up against the brutal Soviet regime–many of them Jewish. —

    The only time some jew stood up ‘against’ the Soviet regime was when he saw a fellow jew getting something he didn’t yet have or think of. Or on one of the exceedingly rare occasions when a gentile was allowed a business license.

    The JTA has provided no more proof that Loughner isn’t jewish than those who claim that he is. But one has to surmise from all we’re seeing is jews feel that whatever they state, whatever they want to be the truth, is the truth as far as they’re concerned. They expect this every time out, as spoiled as they are today. Jewish claims of ‘painstaking research’ in so many other areas have turned out to be hot air, so it’s doubtful anyone will be surprised if in fact little Jared is a jew and zionist claims to the contrary turn out to be more jewish fairy tales.

    • Caleb's Gravatar Caleb
      January 13, 2011 - 9:48 pm | Permalink

      Where did you earn your degree in twentieth century history, Crom? By sending in box tops, by the sound of it.
      The names of the Jewish dissidents are well known–Shcharansky, Yuli Daniel, Ginzburg–as is the terms they served in the Gulag beside their gentile fellow dissidents.
      No one has to prove a negative–though JTA did just that in regard to allegations that Loughner is Jewish. It is the party making an assertion that has the burden of proving it.

    • Athanasius's Gravatar Athanasius
      January 14, 2011 - 12:05 am | Permalink

      Yeah, funny how Sharansky mutated from a liberal dissident in the context of the USSR to an ethno-nationalist in the context of Israel. But it’s never really about principles or right and wrong, is it? It’s about what’s good for the Jews.

    • Caleb's Gravatar Caleb
      January 14, 2011 - 2:39 pm | Permalink

      Athanasius, you would deny to Jews the right to be nationalistic–a right you claim for yourself, but pass that.
      It’s a valid observation if a limited one. Not just Anatoly Shcharansky but nearly ALL the 600,000 ex Soviet citizens who settled permanently in Israel turned out to be extreme reactionary nationalists in their political orientation. Fierce opponents of collectivism in any form, some with recent experience of Islam resurgent in the former Central Asian republics, their views ironically are echoed in today’s “democratic” Russia where many once-cherished aspects of Communist ideology barely can be spoken of. [Try writing an article in praise of feminism.]

    • Athanasius's Gravatar Athanasius
      January 23, 2011 - 5:25 pm | Permalink

      The problem isn’t people like Sharansky’s nationalism. The problem is that people like Sharansky claim universal morals when it benefits their co-ethnics, and resort to relativism when in a position power.

    • Caleb's Gravatar Caleb
      January 23, 2011 - 11:19 pm | Permalink

      Not Shcharansky’s co-ethnics, Athanasius but fellow ex-Soviet emigres. He and the party he founded came in conflict with the Israeli establishment of labor socialists as much as he had with the Soviet **Apparat**.

  26. January 13, 2011 - 1:11 pm | Permalink

    Here are a few more interesting Articles to read: : D

    Just Another Freak in Jewmerica or Something Else?
    http://incogman.net/01/2011/just-another-freak-in-jewmerica-or-something-else/

    Media caught hiding the fact Jared Loughner is Jewish
    http://www.rense.com/general92/mediac.htm

    Jewish Jared Loughner “NO, I will not trust in God”
    http://www.texemarrs.com/012011/jared_loughner_article.htm

    Jared Lee Loughner May Be a Cabalistic Jew
    http://jewishracism.blogspot.com/2011/01/jared-lee-loughner-may-be-cabalistic.html

    Jewish Racism: Desperate Spin in the “Alternative Media” and on Message Boards
    http://jewishracism.blogspot.com/2011/01/desperate-spin-in-alternative-media-and.html

    Jared Lee Loughner’s Attempted Assassination of a Member of Congress Will Forward the Jews’ Totalitarian Agenda
    http://jewishracism.blogspot.com/2011/01/jared-lee-loughners-attempted.html

    Jewish Racism: Jared Lee Loughner Ain’t No Dummy!
    http://jewishracism.blogspot.com/2011/01/jared-lee-loughner-aint-no-dummy.html

    TheForbiddenTruth.net has some good links and more info on this topic. SEE LINK:
    http://theforbiddentruth.net/11541-jewish-arizonian-congresswomen-shot-critical-condition.html

    • Caleb's Gravatar Caleb
      January 13, 2011 - 2:44 pm | Permalink

      “Dissident”, you call yourself? A blasphemy on those who stood up against the brutal Soviet regime–many of them Jewish.
      A “solid lead”? Not quite–a mere suggestion, printed in a marginal journal, from a young person who may also not be playing with a full deck.
      Some of Loughner’s recorded ramblings do bear a resemblance to allegations appearing and reappearing on hate sites, such as that the Federal Reserve is a “Jewish Plot”.

    • January 13, 2011 - 3:07 pm | Permalink

      Caleb,
      Where’s your source for Loughner claiming that the Federal Reserve is a Jewish plot?

    • Caleb's Gravatar Caleb
      January 13, 2011 - 4:08 pm | Permalink
    • January 13, 2011 - 4:28 pm | Permalink

      Caleb,

      I went to that article and went to the article it linked to support that assertion…
      http://www.nationaljournal.com/dailyfray/what-we-know-about-jared-lee-loughner-20110110?page=1

      That article linked to several more articles, none of which said anything about that. This would be a pretty significant revelation to be passed along in such a casual manner as it was in the FP article.

      We merely speculated, based on a direct assertion by a named acquaintance. You, on the other hand, are jumping to conclusions, based on an unattributed and unsupported statement.

    • Caleb's Gravatar Caleb
      January 13, 2011 - 6:18 pm | Permalink

      “Parrott” is a name well chosen. To mindlessly repeat a thing one hears is to ______ it.
      Did someone say “viral”?

    • January 13, 2011 - 6:47 pm | Permalink

      Touché!

  27. Caleb's Gravatar Caleb
    January 13, 2011 - 10:29 am | Permalink

    Gun clutching wacko Jared Loughner is not even A LITTLE BIT Jewish, as the JTA and others have verified through painstaking genealogical research. That such delving in someone’s ancestry–so reminiscent of the requirement for membership in the Nazi SS–should be thought necessary is both pathetic and frightening.

    • January 13, 2011 - 10:57 am | Permalink

      We’re not the ones who brought up Judaism. It’s the media that, with absolutely no evidence whatsoever, dreamed up the notion that Giffords was assassinated by an anti-Semitic White Nationalist. When we speculated that Loughner might be Jewish, we did so based on a solid lead from an interview in Mother Jones of his closest friend. It was very relevant, as his being Jewish would have disabled the media’s unprovoked attack on us.

      What I personally believe is “pathetic and frightening” is that we dissidents are guilty until proven innocent in these episodes. In your case, we’re guilty even after being proven innocent, because our attempts to prove that we’re innocent reminded you of something completely different that different people did in a different century for different reasons.

      And I assure you that JTA didn’t do its research because we have them on the run. They did the research because they were curious about whether or not he was Jewish.

  28. January 13, 2011 - 3:48 am | Permalink

    Athanasius January 13, 2011 – 2:23 am But psychology identifies a ‘disease’ like dissociative identity disorder or attention deficit disorder, and not only is the physical causation of this disease ever elusive, but the disease manifests in so many different ways that it is not easily identifiable.”

    ‘Psychology’ is not, for a number of good logical and empirical reasons, really a science. So long as it traffics in intensional terms as variables that will remain so in my view. Research in behavioural genetics and neuroscience also has a long way to go, and both behaviour genetics and behavioural neuroscience have major quantitative hurdles to surmount (the number of variables and their interactions are staggering, not to mention ethical problems encountered in doing the research). In the meantime, the language of psychology is therefore perhaps best treated as just a modus vivendi. Science is an ongoing, messy process, and we are still finding our way in these areas – but there are some pointers which make old ways of thinking about many issues look rather less than helpful, if not superstitious.

  29. Jesse's Gravatar Jesse
    January 13, 2011 - 3:30 am | Permalink

    B.C.E. stands for Before Common Era, ADE stands for Arizona Department of education

  30. January 13, 2011 - 12:12 am | Permalink

    This is just a test

    lots of items on this thread.
    Truth is difficult to find in its total generality.
    It is only when it is limited to some system, that we can judge.

    end of test.

  31. brian morrison's Gravatar brian morrison
    January 12, 2011 - 8:32 pm | Permalink

    dear jason
    there are at least two that didn’t…

  32. Jason Speaks's Gravatar Jason Speaks
    January 12, 2011 - 6:49 pm | Permalink

    No, I don’t see any false flag here. I believe there were several Jews that lost their lives.

    • Jason Speaks's Gravatar Jason Speaks
      January 13, 2011 - 10:35 am | Permalink

      I’m not defending Jews, I was saying that I don’t think what happened in Arizona was a “false flag” operation led by Jews, since apparently several Jews died. And I have never mounted a defense of Jews. I have defended the US against attacks.

    • Frank Edwin Stone's Gravatar Frank Edwin Stone
      January 13, 2011 - 2:35 pm | Permalink

      Sometimes the Jews are falsely accused, although not too often, and it is the decent thing to defend anybody against false accusations.
      Unfortunately the Jews, more than any other ethnic group, have earned the distrust of all nations throughout history through their deceitful, fraudulent, subversive and downright criminal activities and incessant, reflexive lying.
      As they say, even a broken clock is right twice a day, so even you can be right sometimes “Jason Speaks”.
      Your blind, misplaced and moronic patriotism whereby you “defend the US against attacks” is symptomatic of the neo-conned, simple -minded, gullible majority who reelected King George in 2004.
      All you have to tell them is that the US is “under attack” and they will do anything every time.
      As such they deserve what is coming to them, which is the total destruction of their country and way of life.
      For your information “Jason Speaks”, there is no American government, representing the interests of the US.
      There is a puppet government, American in name only, representing the interests of World Jewry.

    • Ronny Rev's Gravatar Ronny Rev
      January 13, 2011 - 9:02 pm | Permalink

      Frank, I like your post, but unfortunately, doing what’s decent simply isn’t worth it or even right when it comes to the jews these days. They do nothing but drown us, whites, in false accusations 24 hrs a day, 7 days a week with their media. They are so cruel to us right now, as they always are when in power, that it would be silly do to for them what they would never do for us. If Loughner isn’t jewish, big deal. If he is, the big deal will be the media once again running cover for jewish malfeasance.

      People say that we should always do the right thing, not sink to the level of our enemies. All our enemies do is laugh at this, and give the knife another twist.

    • Jason Speaks's Gravatar Jason Speaks
      January 14, 2011 - 12:51 am | Permalink

      Frank, I was merely responding to posts that praised the Axis powers and condemned the Allies in what was a highly biased manner. I pointed out some truths about the good that the US has done in the world. Now, this is no way discounts the good of Germans or anyone else, nor did I say it did. Nor am I claiming that the US hasn’t become under the control of a Leftist elites. But your tone is something that comes from the hard Left, and the Left isn’t right about much.

      I simply point out that the US had the power to destroy all of Germany, Japan, or any other country on earth after WWII because of our monopoly in nuclear weapons. Instead, we spent that money on the Marshall Plan. It’s called keeping things in perspective.

    • Athanasius's Gravatar Athanasius
      January 14, 2011 - 2:53 am | Permalink

      I think you forget that many of us are basically, for better or worse, conservative. Our grandfathers fought in WWII and so while we don’t swallow the mythology of the “Good War” wholesale, we don’t want to think of them fighting for something bad.

    • Frank Edwin Stone's Gravatar Frank Edwin Stone
      January 14, 2011 - 8:58 am | Permalink

      Jason Speaks wrote: “your tone is something that comes from the hard Left, and the Left isn’t right about much. ”

      I thought that was real funny. Still, if I want to laugh, I would rather watch an old silent Charlie Chaplin film.

      I had been often called a neo-Nazi, but NEVER a Leftie.

      In fact I am an old style liberal democrat, my spiritual father was Thomas Jefferson.
      Thomas Jefferson was also the spiritual father of the KKK, it must be remembered. There is a direct line leading from Thomas Jefferson to David Duke.

      It shows your confusion about the terms that you use “Jason Speaks”.
      To be fair to you “Jason Speaks”, you are not alone in your confusion.
      The masses are just like you or worse.
      As we say in trading, “the masses are asses”
      In fact one can say that bit by bit you are learning, just by being exposed to more information on forums such as this one.
      About the Marshall Plan I must make three observations:
      First, it would not have been necessary to rebuild Western Europe had not the Jewish dominated Roosevelt Administration prodded England into war against Germany.
      Second, even though the destruction of Germany was total, shocking, unprecedented in history and almost beyond comprehension, what was left of Germany never benefited from the Marshall Plan.
      Third, only by a hair did the Talmudic revenge plan of the Jew Morgenthau, known as the “Morgenthau Plan” not get fully implemented. It did get partially implemented as directive JCS 1067.
      Read it here: http://www.read-all-about-it.org/archive_english/german_losses/JCS_1067_0208.html

      “On May 10, 1945 Truman signed the JCS 1067.[45] Morgenthau told his staff that it was a big day for the Treasury, and that he hoped that “someone doesn’t recognize it as the Morgenthau Plan.” -(Wikipedia citation)

      Two miracles happened in Germany in the 2oth Century:
      the first one was the one accomplished by Adolf Hitler in six years, from 1933 to 1939.
      The second miracle was how a totally destroyed people, its cities in utter ruin, divided, occupied, raped, looted, with 3 million civilians murdered, a quarter of its own territory taken away and ethnically cleansed of 12 million inhabitants, its scientists kidnapped, its scientific knowledge (which was the most advanced in the world) stolen, its factories demolished, its POWs used for slave labor by the French and the Communists in Siberia or systematically starved to death in Eisenhowers’s death camps, how this Folk, came back from less than nothing , like the Phoenix bird rising out of the ashes.
      Unfortunately, this Phoenix bird is mortally wounded.
      The final death of the Phoenix bird will be the death of all of Western civilization.

    • Caleb's Gravatar Caleb
      January 14, 2011 - 3:12 pm | Permalink

      Tell me more about “Eisenhower’s death camps”, Mr. Stone.
      Where were they located? How many died in these camps? and most of all Where are the bodies of all those dead Germans? No one can seem to find them.

    • Istvan Rosza's Gravatar Istvan Rosza
      January 14, 2011 - 9:22 pm | Permalink

      Actually, it’s well known the main camp was Gotha. The numbers can be verified, unlike the “6 million” which is merely a re-hash of the “… 6 million must die by fire,” in order for I$rael to be created.

    • Caleb's Gravatar Caleb
      January 14, 2011 - 11:34 pm | Permalink

      The death rate for Germans in US captivity was 1 percent, the total figure being not higher than 56,000 not the wildly improbable 800,000 to one million alleged in “Other Losses”.
      All of Europe suffered from severe food shortage in the summer of 1945 but German prisoners were better fed than civilians in France.

    • January 15, 2011 - 5:07 am | Permalink

      Caleb:
      thanks for that info. I suppose you will provide your source in due time.
      Speaking of bodies, I suppose they shoved them into the same bottomless pit as the six million Jews?
      In any event, you do concede that 56,000 were starved. and this is in line with Rosevelt’s directive to punish the Germans, not just the National Socialist regime “I mean the people!” At least, this is what I saw.. and heard.. him say on a television documentary

    • Caleb's Gravatar Caleb
      January 15, 2011 - 2:07 pm | Permalink

      http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/b/bacque-james/ambrose-001.html

      In this review the late Stephen Ambrose states his sources, many of them German officers, in a most complete fashion.

      The deaths from all causes came to 56,000. “Starved” is your interpretation. I dispute that President Roosevelt ever declared a policy to punish ordinary German people Among them there was much suffering though not so much as among the Nazis’ victims.
      A distinction must be drawn between the side that caused the suffering and that which endured it.
      Btw: speaking of prisoners of war, those Germans–and Italians–captured by U.S. forces during the actual fighting have been described as “some of the luckiest soldiers on any side” in WW II. Those shipped to the continental United States often tried to decline repatriation and remain here when the war ended. Does that sound like they were “punished”?

    • Someday's Gravatar Someday
      January 15, 2011 - 11:10 am | Permalink

      henry baxley, Germany started a world war and lost it. Then they did almost the exact same thing again. What were they expecting from the victors, a pat on the back?

      Caleb, I believe the high death rates are claimed to have been from disease due to unsanitary conditions in some early improvised camps. Not starvation.

    • Jason Speaks's Gravatar Jason Speaks
      January 15, 2011 - 11:55 am | Permalink

      There were also logistical problems in getting aid to Germans and Japanese fast enough after the way. This aid was provided before the massive Marshall Plan which came later.

    • January 15, 2011 - 11:40 pm | Permalink

      Someday, I made no value judgements I merely stated that I believed “other losses” had documentation of allied abuses and that I saw a documentery wherein Rosevelt was telling someone (on camera) the the “people” needed to be punished, whether it ever became official policy I don’t know and I don’t care.
      I am pretty sure I know one thing however, the germans had no monopoly on cruelty in war

    • January 14, 2011 - 9:29 pm | Permalink

      Caleb:
      I have not read it personally, but I understand the documentation of the starvation of Germans under American occupation can be found in the book “Other Losses”

    • January 14, 2011 - 1:51 pm | Permalink

      January 13, 2011 – 10:35 am | Permalink I’m not defending Jews, I was saying that I don’t think what happened in Arizona was a “false flag” operation led by Jews, since apparently several Jews died.

      That makes some sense.

      I mean, if a group of highly unethical Jews wanted to shut down anti-Jewish websites*, it wouldn’t be unwise of them purely from the standpoint of that goal to try to hypnotize some fan of anti-Jewish websites to kill some prominent Jew or the other.

      They’d sure be a lot of risk to such an operation, however, so the idea of it ever actually happening is extremely farfetched.

      And the whole idea of the Lougher shootings being such a false flag is clearly false.

      They wouldn’t have picked part Jewish to do something intended to create a backlash against anti-semites, obviously.

      That just undermines their narrative for no reason.

    • January 14, 2011 - 2:01 pm | Permalink

      *Some anti-Jewish websites are actually useful to Jews, because they make criticism of Jewry look bad.

      At the same time, online criticism of the Neocons for pushing an Israeli agenda has made a real difference.

      If only for the sake of foreign policy, I think a significant number of even the intelligent Jews would like to have hate speech laws applied to the internet.

      And then the less intelligent Jews want hate speech laws because they’re paranoid that HitlerLover47 will attack them at the foodcourt.

      Those are the Jews, as out of touch in their own way as Hitlerlover47, who have made Morris Dee a wealthy man.

    • January 15, 2011 - 4:37 pm | Permalink

      Whilst it isn’t difficult to see that it could actually be in the interests of the ADL and Zionsist activists in other countries to highlight anti-Semitism in order to increase re-location to Israel, as I’ve said elsewhere, it might also facilitate group cohesion and support for Israel. If some highly ‘socially undesirable’ behaviours are indeed more prevalent amongst Jewish people as a group than they are amongst other ethnic endogamous groups, why not focus on what those behaviours are per se, and take steps towards highlighting, and trying to better manage those behaviours universally. A lot of people (Jewish included) would probably be very grateful if anyone could do this. Are there any specific personality traits (in The Big 5), or any Personality Disorders (as defined in DSM-IV) which would indicate that there is indeed a higher prevalence of Axis II Cluster B Personality disorders amongst White people from NYC compared to oher cities’ White people (i.e ones with low Jewish populations)? Maybe NPD/ASPD in Wall Street vs other professions etc? Wall Street could be compared to other state capitals, London’s City,, or Frankfurt, Moscow?

    • January 16, 2011 - 9:46 pm | Permalink

      This is an excellent question, And I believe the answer will be no…with regard to mental illness there is no statistically significant difference between this group or that group that can be attributed to genes alone.
      Nor do I believe the problem of social degeneration is first and foremost a racial/political one.
      The biggest problem we have today is trying to live in the digital age while using rules/beliefs that are 5,000 years old and were based more on superstition and good intentions than on the observable laws of nature.
      What kind of people would …in the natural world free of government/religious programming…set up a system of government that would lead eventually to their extinction?
      Did the deified “founding fathers” allow their children to vote?….I think not, and for good reason. People in large groups will vote themselves down the toilet every time (sooner or later) it happend in Athens, its happening here.
      The interesting thing about mass suicide is that the vultures reap a rich harvest indeed.
      Now some will say that the Civil Rights Act was not the result of stupid voters, (The vast majority were opposed)
      I say it was. The Judges that passed it were appointed by the politcians the people voted into office.
      Thus the so-called “popular vote” is shown prima facie to be nothing but a sham, Big Brother will act on it only if it is going the way he wants, otherwise it will be shuffled around the other “branches” and be found “unconstitutional” But they (Big Brother) don’t have to worry too much about that, since they pretty much control how people vote in the first place.

      Big Brother is non-partisan and wants whats best for you…even if it kills you.

    • January 17, 2011 - 6:39 am | Permalink

      “And I believe the answer will be no…with regard to mental illness there is no statistically significant difference between this group or that group that can be attributed to genes alone.”

      But what one thinks/believes etc should be a function of the available evidence surely? O else one is just describing one’s currnet state of ignorance, and what is that worth unless it prompts one to redress it? The critical mass of research drawn from many areas of behaviour genetics and failed social intervention (e.g. Head Start) would now seem to suggest that genes may well determine most of our behavioural expression. So long as people assortively rather than just randomly mate, and so long as there are physical gene-barriers to mating, not to mention low overall fertility across the Liberal Democratic populations, it’s likely that classes of behaviours will show up more in some groups relative to others.

    • January 17, 2011 - 8:37 am | Permalink

      Are you saying that a Jew will be more prone to say, Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder BECAUSE of his Jewishness? Or an asian will be more prone to have Clinical Depression BECAUSE he is asian?
      Please, its a YES or NO question, lest you be accused of being related to Allen Greenspan :0)

    • January 17, 2011 - 9:26 am | Permalink

      I’m saying what I am saying. One has to be careful not to force others into answering questions which are badly put. The fact is, if behaviours are the expression of genes (and the research is definitely moving in that direction rather than the other, i.e that it is primarily shaped socially by families and peers etc), and if the dispesal of genes is limited by gene-barriers such as assortive mating (endogamy is one form of this, phsyical continents, and mountain ranges etc another), then there should be a higher frequency/prevalence of some disorders in some groups relative to others. One only assumes the Null Hypothesis (H0) i.e. equality or randomness, only to test and reject it in scientific research and other rational analysis. However, as the Null Hypothesis (H0) is nearly always false taken literally, one has to be very careful about which Alternative Hypothesis (H1, H2 etc) one accepts too. Do you understand that this is the way that rational analysis works – everywhere in science? It is a statistical issue, it is not a yes/no binary issue.

    • January 17, 2011 - 9:07 pm | Permalink

      Well do you have numbers that show a significant increase in the rate of specific mental disorders within a given endomamic group that are consistant across continents, oceans, etc.?

    • January 18, 2011 - 5:44 am | Permalink

      This is being looked into (see also HAPMAP and Human Genome Diversity Project), but it’s difficult for the same reason that looking at the genetics of sexual preference is difficult, namely the classes are small and the disorder are low prevalence, it’s made even more difficult in that self-classisifcation of ethnicity is not as reliable as many think. However, here are some links to research worth knowing about.

      http://www.psychiatry.cam.ac.uk/aesop/
      http://alcoholism.about.com/od/dual/a/blnaa040802.htm
      http://www.niaaa.nih.gov/NewsEvents/NewsReleases/Pages/Landmark.aspx

      Perhaps it would be worth focusing on NYC. If you look back at other posts form me you will see me mentioning CYP21 in the context of Non Classic Adrenal Hyperplasia (NCAH), brain-gender and ethnicity? Look into the frequecy of carriers and homozygotes by ethnic group and where the main research was done in the USA. Look into how this autosomal recessive disorder affects the HPA Axis (stress system) as well as sex-steroid hormones (and thus male stature etc).

      http://www.caresfoundation.org/productcart/pc/ncah_late_onset_cah.html

    • January 18, 2011 - 6:06 am | Permalink

      With respect to psychosis, prevalence when in migrated to (alien) environments seems to be much higher than those ‘back home’. Stressors, as risk factors, impact upon how (pahological) behaviours express (e.g. the genetic risk for MDD or GAD is down to the same genes it seems, but whether it comes out as GAD or MDD seems to be a function of ‘environment’ (a subtle point). If one thinks about known mean ethnic group differences in intelligence (and its subscales like verbal/spatial), and the cognitive demands placed upon different groups by their environments (education, culture), perhaps this may go some way towards explaining what we have been seeing in terms of group behaviours? We have spent decades wrongly thinking that behaviour is largely shaped by our environments, but now the pendulum is swinging the other way. Another – think of low UV light in Northern latitudes. What are the potentially adverse consequences for dark-skinned people with respect to synthesis of vitamin D and their health? Finally, returning to the other example (NCAH), if one group’s males are more brain-feminized, and their females more androgenised than is the case in other groups, what would be the consequences of finding oneself a minority alien group amongst a large outgroup not like one’s own? Would one not try to change the outgroup if one’s group was more verbal, more feminised?

    • January 14, 2011 - 1:40 pm | Permalink

      There were several Muslims who lost their lives in the attacks on the World Trade Center, does that mean it wasn’t Muslims who did it?

      I agree with you that the shooting in Arizona wasn’t a false flag, but still find some fault with the logic you use to come to that conclusion.

      The main reason to reject the idea that it was a false flag lies in the fact that there’s absolutely no evidence that the shooter ever came in contact with government agents.

      There’s just no feasible mechanism of causation here, and certainly no evidence Lougher was subjected to hypnosis prior to the shootings.

  33. anon's Gravatar anon
    January 12, 2011 - 6:20 pm | Permalink

    Dr MacDonald see Severus post @ January 12, 2011 – 5:09 pm
    The larger this grows the more TOO will be targeted by “our friends” they are the masters, along with Chinese and Russians, for hacking and dirty tricks with computer attacks.
    Implement a registration system, it may not stop everything but it can create a group of trusted posters. That might also be open to hacking the information of registrants but as this is wide open there are some dangers. Just an idea

  34. Elizabeth's Gravatar Elizabeth
    January 12, 2011 - 2:28 pm | Permalink

    Brahms, I pulled up the Freeman movement to see what you were talking about. Here is the link
    http://www.freeman.org
    I have never looked into the Freeman movement before. I had some vague idea that it was some kind of white supremacist group. It never occurred to me it was Jewish. I will definitely study what they believe. I am in NC and it is big at Duke University. Great Link. Thanks for the tip.

    The US Flag with a Gold Fringe is said to equal Maritime Law. http://www.dailypaul.com/node/49841 I don’t know if Jared knew that.

    I am not aware of him saying anything about a 2nd constitution. He did say that people were illiterate.

    I am certain that we will never know what really happened.

  35. January 12, 2011 - 1:25 pm | Permalink

    FYI Rob Kall of OpenEd News claims the story about Jared Loughner’s Jewish heritage is false. See ‘‘Loughner Jewish? Member Same Synagogue as Giffords?’ at ‘http://www.opednews.com/populum/page.php?f=Loughner-Jewish  — Member-S-by-Rob-Kall-110111-342.html

  36. January 12, 2011 - 1:14 pm | Permalink

    History repeats itself.

    As America tries to sort out this senseless shooting in Arizona; the fact Jared Lee Loughner is Jewish is hidden from the American people. Let us not forget the shooters in the Columbine High School massacre Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris were both Jewish.

    Not only do Jews play a leading role in the daily destruction of America but also have been responsible for some of Americas’ greatest attacks such as 9/11 and the USS Liberty.

    At roughly 2% of the population the Jews have managed to dominate 96% of the world media, infultrate US (and world) banking including the Federal Reserve, purchase the US Congress and Senate (LARGELY THROUGH AIPAC), control the President, the judicial system all the way to the now three Jewish judges on the supreme court.

    • January 12, 2011 - 6:07 pm | Permalink

      Thinker: the reason they are able to exert such control over the rest of the world is…. they don’t buy the hollow cliches and platitudes that they sell to others, ie, “freedom” (freedom is power) “equality” (no such thing)
      “democracy” (mob rule) and Diversity (tower of babel principle, mix and confuse) All the things that americans swallow hook line and sinker, without having a clue what these terms actually mean.
      They are ……RACIST!…..ie. they have a strong group identity. Certainly not all people of Jewish descent are this way, but most of them imo.
      They do NOT believe in equality, freedom, or diversity for themselves..only for others, and being good businessmen they will sell it as long as you buy it. jmo

  37. Elizabeth's Gravatar Elizabeth
    January 12, 2011 - 1:13 pm | Permalink

    When I went through the various items that were available such as videos and previous posts on the killer’s website and others, I found no indication that he believed in God or Satan in even a perfunctory way. That is why I did not delve into that aspect. He did not seem to believe in anything beyond himself.
    He seems to be a nihilist according to the classical definition in Webster’s:

    Definition of NIHILISM
    1a : a viewpoint that traditional values and beliefs are unfounded and that existence is senseless and useless

    b : a doctrine that denies any objective ground of truth and especially of moral truths

    2a : a doctrine or belief that conditions in the social organization are so bad as to make destruction desirable for its own sake independent of any constructive program or possibility

    2b capitalized : the program of a 19th century Russian party advocating revolutionary reform and using terrorism and assassination

    That is what we have been teaching in our schools and societies for 50 years and we are reaping the results in the form of senseless murders and suicides.

    How do we expect young people to cope in a world where, as Jared asked, “What is government if word’s have no meaning.”

    • January 12, 2011 - 2:01 pm | Permalink

      Good comment Elizabeth. If the Liberal-Democracies’ populations are dumbing down through dysgenic/differential, and if there is no popularly acceptable alternative to Libertarianism in these nations, it’s hard to see what the answer is, all else considered.

      Here’s a reasonable summary of the basic problem:

      http://philosophy.wisc.edu/forster/220/Notes2.html

      Sadly, we can’t assume that everyone can be taught to behave cautiously like ‘good’ scientists given the nature of individual differences and the current state of some disciplines. For an elaboration, and illustration of how one can’t even count on professioals pulling together these days, click on my username and see Frag.htm.

  38. Brahms's Gravatar Brahms
    January 12, 2011 - 12:10 pm | Permalink

    Remember the oranges in his shrine?

    Another observance during Sukkot involves what are known as the Four Species (arba minim in Hebrew) or the lulav and etrog. We are commanded to take these four plants and use them to “rejoice before the L-rd.” The four species in question are an etrog (a citrus fruit similar to a lemon native to Israel; in English it is called a citron), a palm branch (in Hebrew, lulav), two willow branches (aravot) and three myrtle branches (hadassim). The six branches are bound together and referred to collectively as the lulav, because the palm branch is by far the largest part

    http://www.jewfaq.org/holiday5.htm

  39. Frank Edwin Stone's Gravatar Frank Edwin Stone
    January 12, 2011 - 10:28 am | Permalink

    Jared Loughner sure looks Jewish. The first time I looked at his photo I thought that he was a Jew, or at least part Jewish.
    Indeed, as a poster pointed it out earlier, mental illness is present at a much higher rate among Jews than any other ethnic group, including other Semites.
    Jews are overrepresented among the messianic zealot/ guru-syndrome types.
    It is no coincidence that Jesus ( Yeshu) was one of these types himself.
    So were Abbie Hoffman, Karl Marx. Albert Einstein, Betty Friedan, Franz Boas, Leon Trotzky, Sigmund Freud and an endless list of other messianic/guru types, all convinced that their ideas will change the world.
    The list of fanatical Jewish murderers is even longer.
    These individuals tend to have a very high IQ, just like the Jews as a whole.
    Often madness and genius are separated by a very thin line.

  40. January 12, 2011 - 9:33 am | Permalink

    “Someday January 12, 2011 – 8:09 am You were complaining about attributions of mental illness.”

    The point was really about attributions in general. How does one go about ascertaining whether an attribution is true, false? If this can noty be done, is it just a non truth-functional dramatic construction? What rational or practical function do these constructions serve? Aren’t these intensional idioms of propositional attitude the medium of fiction, the creative (fabricating) arts etc?

    Sometimes what appears abstruse is just what’s unfamiliar. Technical problems require technical languages for effective management/solutions. Using the wrong language often just leads to frustration and conflict (and sometimes worse). Isn’t this why we have education and (scientific) research, i.e to make the world a more predictable, manageable place?

  41. Elizabeth's Gravatar Elizabeth
    January 12, 2011 - 12:48 am | Permalink

    1. Every t.v. spot is about making psychiatry more available to the public, blah, blah: AZ has “70,000 crazy people” says the t.v. but “only 20,000 can “get help.” We need to “help even more.” Diagnose even more. Make more money available for help. This is proof we need health care socialized.
    That’s how it’s being used. Why jump on the bandwagon? Close Quotes

    Well said Anne. They are politicizing this incident to try take away 1st and 2nd amendment rights. They are proving him “crazy” for their own reasons and getting us to help them do it.

    When they get that done then they may suddenly discover that everyone who disagrees with them is obviously in need of mental health processing – lobotomy, drugs, detention in gulag’s, etc. This usually happens. Just read world history.

    Assume that Jared is not crazy. What if he stumbled on to something in his Bill Ayers related High School training classes that I linked here on 1-10-11 at 7:59pm. See above.

    He was a smart kid and may have found out something that scared him and he was trying to deal with it. He devised ways to try to get the message out. It made him seem sort of crazy, but not the way people are saying. He talks about the Revolutionaries being in charge now. “Revolutionaries from the revolution are in control of the land and laws” he did make a video stating that police and paid education are unconstitutional. called “This Student At Pima Community College: An Unconstitutional Crime!”

    The books might have been his reading list from school and the Oz and Alice in Wonderland are classic MK Ultra books.

    He speaks in a more formal language. Some called it Logic/Calculus or Axiom, Evidence, Conclusion.

    Jared said “If there’s no flag in the constitution then the flag in the film is unknown. There’s no flag in the constitution. Therefore, the flag in the film is unknown. Burn every new and old flag that you see. Burn your flag! I bet you can imagine this in your mind with a faster speed. Watch this protest in reverse! Ask the local police; “What’s your illegal activity on duty?”. If you protest the government then there’s a new government from protesting. There’s not a new government from protesting. Thus, you aren’t protesting the government. There’s something important in this video: There’s no communication to anyone in this location. You shouldn’t be afraid of the stars. There’s a new bird on my right shoulder. The beak is two feet and lime green. The rarest bird on earth, there’s no feathers, but small grey scales all over the body. It’s with one large red eye with a light blue iris. The bird feet are the same as a woodpecker. This new bird and there’s only one, the gender is not female or male. The wings of this bird are beautiful; 3 feet wide with the shape of a bald eagle that you could die for. If you can see this bird then you will understand. You think this bird is able to chat about a government? I want you to imagine a comet or meteoroid coming through the atmosphere. On the other hand, welcome yourself to the desert: Maybe your ability to protest is from the brainwash of the current government structure.”

    The bird that he was referring to could be a phoenix and when you play his video backwards, it rises from the ashes. It is rare bird and does not require male or female because it does not reproduce since it dies and rises from its own ashes.

    Another meaning to bird reference could be to an eagle – the US. Covered in grey scales of justice?

    He is burning the Maritime American Flag with the Gold Fringe on it and saying it is not in the Constitution so rise from the ashes and go back to the constitution and print your own money.

    He says not to be afraid of the stars. The bird on his shoulder could be a missile launcher that is held on a persons shoulder with “mockingbird feet”. The scope has a red eye with a blue iris.

    He seems to say that our danger is coming from something on the ground and not from above, so don’t believe in aliens or meteor showers or foreign invaders.

    He says there is no communication to anyone where he is in the desert. Does that mean satellites too?

    He says he only has his right arm left and that might mean that he believes he has no choice now but to take action. He seems to be under some sort of Mind Control influence and knows that he is going to die when he does have to obey their instructions. Was he smiling in the mug shot because he is just happy to still be alive?

    The “conscience” dreaming was correct. It is an ethical sort of conscious dreaming it seems. Was he just trying to stay sane in an insane situation and trying to counteract the Mind Control influence he seemed to be under by learning to control his own mind better?

    Maybe he didn’t talk on the videos because he was being monitored all the time and was careful about what he wrote so that it would seem like a rambling mess unless someone really studied it.

    He says he is a dreamer and only 5% of Americans are dreamers. I found this:
    The History of the Process Communication Model In Astronaut Selection
    “Dreamers” are reflective, imaginative, directable, and calm. They are also very often shy, sensitive, introverted, non-competitive, and seclusive. They are frequently described as “loners.”
    Examples include most Trappist monks, Greta Garbo, and Gary Cooper’s movie characters. About
    ten percent of Americans are dreamers, sixty percent being female. This personality type is nonexistent at NASA.

    He knew a lot about NASA and perhaps he had read it.

    Who taught him how to shoot? His friend said Jared mentioned that he might go shooting with them and he never had before. Jared was using the same kind of gun the V Tec shooter used and now he was very proficient apparently.

    When he said “government implying brainwash”, he may be referring to the time since 1917 when Woodrow Wilson hired Bernays and Lippmann to propagandize the public and keep them brainwashed. The governments all over the world have used these methods ever since. They didn’t have to do it before because they ruled by divine right.

    Judge Role may have been a primary target. I linked his information on the same post above. 72 hours before his death he did a preliminary ruling against the government being able to take private citizens money by Executive Order instead of under existing laws.

    This would make a good movie.

    In real life people are injured and die. Hearts are broken and lives are changed forever. It is a tragedy for everyone involved.

    I have spent the last couple of days trying to figure this out since I am snowed in and have plenty of time on my hands to do it. If he really was trying to help us and believing that he would die doing it, then I thought I ought to take a little time to see if I could tell what he might have been saying.

    • Brahms's Gravatar Brahms
      January 12, 2011 - 11:52 am | Permalink

      I’d look into the Freeman movement to understand his words. The maritime flag (I missed that one), false grammar, 2nd constitution – are the giveaways.

  42. January 11, 2011 - 10:04 pm | Permalink

    anne@
    Every t.v. spot is about making psychiatry more available to the public, blah, blah: AZ has “70,000 crazy people” says the t.v. but “only 20,000 can “get help.” We need to “help even more.” Diagnose even more.

    So this is what’s on t.v.? I disconnected my t.v. years ago, I only watch videos or documentaries that I bought or borrowed or checked out.
    What you say scares me a bit. And the public will just gobble it down. They’ll all be into mental sickness now. Why look at reality? Replace it instead by a distracting focus on our mental states. Scary. Very.

  43. January 11, 2011 - 9:53 pm | Permalink

    anne @
    Psychiatry, while offering some insights into behavior, (many of which have been already made just called other names), is something, imo, the new society should just get rid of, altogether. Someday that, along with the tomes of horrifying case studies where idiots clearly push people into mental confusion, and the saga of psychosurgery (people actually want that back) and EST done on poor old people stuck in old folks’ homes after medicare started paying for it, and on and on— will just go poof. It will all wind up on the cutting room floor (one hopes) along with blood letting by leeches.

    You have it right! And don’t look at this discussion thread as something on the right track. I have rarely seen such off-base stuff.

  44. anne's Gravatar anne
    January 11, 2011 - 9:45 pm | Permalink

    Sorry— but IF THEY HAD gone off about “gun control” due to this, or more patriot act business— it would have been a big bad move of the left.

    Why is the leftist shrink crap ok?

  45. anne's Gravatar anne
    January 11, 2011 - 9:44 pm | Permalink

    They knew people would see through this—- if it was attempt to pin on “right,” or ARGUE FOR GUN CONTROL (a usual thing), or BEEF UP SECURITY and make more monitoring in an external way.

    Next on the list— was commenting on the psychological state of the public, how our inner-workings always need to be examined. Control, control, control. Who even knew Krauthammer was a shrink? But now…he is on saying he hasn’t practiced for awhile, but nevertheless, will give the psycho reading on it all. lol

  46. anne's Gravatar anne
    January 11, 2011 - 9:41 pm | Permalink

    It doesn’t matter what exactly he has, lol— THE BIG POINT is he is “crazy,” and this proves we need more Shrink Preists as the soft power arm of the law, lol

    • January 12, 2011 - 5:15 am | Permalink

      Anne:
      I hear you. Big Brother wants to fix/control only those problems that will give them more power.
      Instead of looking at healthy breeding and raising, they train our attention on the horses that are already out of the barn, in this way, they can maintain power

  47. anne's Gravatar anne
    January 11, 2011 - 9:40 pm | Permalink

    @ David Longley “….Lenin described Left-Opposition anarchists (e.g. Sylvia Pankhurst) as subject to an infantile disorder. Note that pathological narcissism (one of the four Axis II Cluster B Personality Disorder in DSM-IV, DSM-V is moving towards classing these disorders as extremes of normal personality note)…”

    Am I the only one disturbed by how the whole white community can frame the debate around the perpetrator exactly like the msm— in terms of what DSM diagnosis he might have:

    In minutes: he was psycho, a freak, a bipolar, a schizoid, a nutjob gun lover, a psychopath, sociopath, dissociative—

    Psychiatry, while offering some insights into behavior, (many of which have been already made just called other names), is something, imo, the new society should just get rid of, altogether. Someday that, along with the tomes of horrifying case studies where idiots clearly push people into mental confusion, and the saga of psychosurgery (people actually want that back) and EST done on poor old people stuck in old folks’ homes after medicare started paying for it, and on and on— will just go poof. It will all wind up on the cutting room floor (one hopes) along with blood letting by leeches.

    The False Memory Syndrome groups and anti-psychiatry is much better situated to return the whole nation to sanity, imo.

    It is sad that no other categories of analysis are seemingly known, even by people on this thread, when its primary contribution is drugging young kids, electroshocking old people for a quick buck, creating circular thinking and confusion in countless citizens, peddling anti-psychiatry drugs, being the center of mega-law suits s/a Bennet Braun, spawning walls of anti-psych books b/c so many people have managed to survive the damage, not to mention books about the relationships between politicals, social control and the shrink industry.

    Wouldn’t be inclined to have one in my home, personally, and wouldn’t send my kids to one. Can no one else –here or in msm– offer anything other than this guy’s DSM diagnosis? Discuss historical context? An internal critique linking what he says to existing thought systems? Sin? Of him? The community that produced him? Anything but all this shrink crap.

    People are GOING ON AND ON on tv—-not using this to beef up security, as everyone is acting like –wake up!— but to SET UP GETTING PEOPLE TO SHRINKS and psychiatric “help” more easily and quickly. (this ties into pushing health care).

    Every t.v. spot is about making psychiatry more available to the public, blah, blah: AZ has “70,000 crazy people” says the t.v. but “only 20,000 can “get help.” We need to “help even more.” Diagnose even more. Make more money available for help. This is proof we need health care socialized.

    That’s how it’s being used. Why jump on the bandwagon?

    • Athanasius's Gravatar Athanasius
      January 13, 2011 - 2:23 am | Permalink

      I agree that psychology is much less successful as a scientific discipline than, say, microbiology in identifying pathologies. The physical causation of the set of symptoms we call the disease ‘tuberculosis’ is pretty certainly identified with mycobacterium tuberculii. It will reliably produce similar symptoms.

      But psychology identifies a ‘disease’ like dissociative identity disorder or attention deficit disorder, and not only is the physical causation of this disease ever elusive, but the disease manifests in so many different ways that it is not easily identifiable.

  48. January 11, 2011 - 8:38 pm | Permalink

    MacDonald’s article@

    Non-Jews don’t use it [B.C.E.] unless they are trying to impress Jews with their respect for Jewish hostility toward Christianity.
    I had never heard any such statement like this before. This is a very strong statement. I’m not sure it’s true.

    I believe that, officially, CE and BCE are scientific ways to de-Christianize AD and BC, thus giving a more scientific terminology. At least that is how it is presented. At times I did wonder if it was another sneaky step in the war against Christianity. But the statement about Jews and non-Jews never crossed my mind.

    Or is MacDonald’s article just saying that this is what Loughner said.

    • Bob Martin's Gravatar Bob Martin
      January 11, 2011 - 10:45 pm | Permalink

      William W said:

      I believe that, officially, CE and BCE are scientific ways to de-Christianize AD and BC, thus giving a more scientific terminology.

      “Officially” according to who exactly?

      How are the terms “CE” and “BCE” “scientific” and how is the effort to “de-Christianize” historical dating labels somehow “giving a more scientific terminology?”

      This attempt to use the word “science” as some sort of appeal to authority or the implication that using the tradition terms for the same dates is somehow non-scientific makes no sense.

      “Or is MacDonald’s article just saying that this is what Loughner said.”

      Perhaps there is some humor that is not obvious?

    • January 11, 2011 - 11:36 pm | Permalink

      My intent is to reply to Bob Martin. I didn’t see any “reply” button next to his comment.
      First point. How do you get the block quote? I know that i inside angle brackets, and forward-slash followed by i, inside angle brackets is a way to start and stop italics. I assume block quote is similar?

      Second point. I know I am sidestepping your question, at least for the time being. But I want to go back to what is in MacDonald’s article
      Non-Jews don’t use it [B.C.E.] unless they are trying to impress Jews with their respect for Jewish hostility toward Christianity.
      I now see that this is outright false. I am non-Jewish, I likely have used BCE sometimes (though most of the time I somewhat stubbornly used BC). But when I used BCE, I was never trying to impress Jews.
      I believe that there are many non-Jews who use BCE and who are not trying to impress Jews.
      Therefore MacDonald’s statement is false in my case. And it is false (given what I believe) for the many non-Jews who use BCE and who are not trying to impress Jews. I might also add, that it is false for all non-Jews who use BCE and who are not trying to impress Jews.

      I realize I stated this carefully. And sometimes stating something carefully can make it harder to understand.

    • Bob Martin's Gravatar Bob Martin
      January 12, 2011 - 12:58 am | Permalink

      William W says:

      harder to understand

      I’m not sure the controversy has risen to the level of notability, as wikipedia might say. BC and AD are the traditional terms and there’s no reason to make up something else to cater to minority complaints.

  49. Diana's Gravatar Diana
    January 11, 2011 - 7:59 pm | Permalink

    Hey wait, it’s a movie.

    First there is the evil opposition, Sarah Palin, playing
    the role of the all-American right-wing Christian, who places gun sights on her website. Said Giffords previously “The way that she (Palin) has it depicted has the cross hairs of a gun sight over our district.” This information is from a Yahoo News article, dated January 10, 2011 and was entitled “Giffords tragedy could be a defining moment for Palin”. Does this mean it is time for her to exit stage right?

    But wait, there’s more. Palin is herself, not only an ardent supporter of Israel- remember the flags on her lapel- she is also half Jewish, her mother was Jewish and her father a fundamental Christian minister, if I remember correctly.

    Giffords it has now been revealed is half Jewish but on her father’s side. She decided that she was Jewish, another article tells us, after visiting Israel. She is a martyr, young and beautiful of the left.

    The stage setting is the State of Arizona, home of the “racist vigilantes” who will not let the poor Mexicans across the border.

    And the ‘mentally sick” assassin, described as a “right wing gun nut”, turns out to be Jewish, and a member of the same synagogue, no less. A friend of his said that Jared used to read Mein Kampf to grate on Mom, who is Jewish. From Alleged Arizona shooter has Jewish mother, acquaintance says.’ A sidebar, 20 Deadliest Gun States, tells us that Arizona has the laxest gun laws.

    “A quick reactive off-the-cuff diagnosis might see Loughner labeled as “psychopathic”. . .another Yahoo article informs us. Just another troubled “right-wing gun nut” with no feelings it later tells us. See Jared Lee Loughner’s Disturbing Mug Shot at Yahoo.

    How odd! All the players in this latest morality tale are Jewish!

    Several years ago some prescient soul pointed out that
    white men were soon to share the fate of the Muslims in the media. Scratch ‘terrorist’ and replace the word with “right-wing gun nut”.

  50. January 11, 2011 - 7:16 pm | Permalink

    “Someday January 11, 2011 – 2:08 pm Your point that categorizing people as mentaly ill fails to explain their behavior behavior would seem to apply to any categorizing of a human being. Who would suppose that they had explained a person’s behavior by characterizing them as as schizotypal (or rational and reasonable for that matter) ?”

    It doesn’t, does it. That was my point. Similarly, how does describing someone as Jewish (or Muslim) ‘explain their behaviour’? Scientific explanations are at least Observation Categoricals (i.e functinal relations of at least two variables). They are not simple properties, or names. A lot of what has been posted here is just name calling.

    • Someday's Gravatar Someday
      January 12, 2011 - 7:10 am | Permalink

      Your argument has nothing to do with the case. Even if it did it’d still depend on what you mean by ‘explain’, you are defining it in a technical sense which no one would dream of using in the context which you assert it is being used.

  51. John's Gravatar John
    January 11, 2011 - 7:16 pm | Permalink

    That little worm, Mark Potok from the Semitic Propaganda & Litigation center, was on MNBC today with Keith Olbermann, and surprise, surprise, he was forced to admit that the shooter was not affiliated with the American Renaissance in any real way, nor was he anti-(illegal)immigration, nor anti-semitic. The shooter was just plain crazy. Strange, he didn’t mention that he was also Jewish.

    Nothing to worry about folks, just a false alarm… no neo-Nazi, anti-semite here, just a plain ol’ psycho with a gun. Everyone can go back to watching your regularly scheduled program.

    There will be no retraction and apology to AmRen, Sarah Palin, Rush Limbaugh, etc. The dirt is out there and will sully the reputation of the average lemming out there. The impetus to push for stricter gun and speech control has been set in motion.

    That’s okay, folks like us, in-tune with what’s really happening, will only be strengthed in our resolve to prevail.

    And we will…

    • John's Gravatar John
      January 11, 2011 - 7:18 pm | Permalink

      I meant to say:

      “The dirt is out there and those aforementioned reputation will remain sullied in the minds of the average lemming out there.”

  52. omop's Gravatar omop
    January 11, 2011 - 6:33 pm | Permalink

    Some beliefs never change. A man kills several individuals. One of whom is a woman and happens to be of the Jewish faith and a member of Congress The man is got to be an “antisemite” One of his victims is Jewish ergo the sob is an antisemite, read MK you know.

    But hold it his moma is Jewish and attends the same synagogue the Congresswoman does. According to Jewish dicta if mother is Jewish the kid is too. So how does this whole thing play out?

    Well give the WP, the NYT, et al as well as one of Nethanyahu’s DC’s main man by the name of Cantor to inform sheeple America of who “De New Enemy Is”.

    Its always a “lone” dimented individual that gets things moving one way or another.

  53. John's Gravatar John
    January 11, 2011 - 6:29 pm | Permalink

    “Is Jared Lee Loughner Jewish?”

    Is the Pope Catholic? :-)

  54. January 11, 2011 - 3:58 pm | Permalink

    Someday January 11, 2011 – 2:08 pm You brought up the possibility of the behaviour of a group being attributed to schizopheria spectrum disorder, so if group SSD is a red red herring it is your own. ”

    No. If you re-read the comment, you will see that that assertion is in fact false. I made no remarks about the perpetrator’s psychiatric condition. Nor would I.

    • Someday's Gravatar Someday
      January 12, 2011 - 8:09 am | Permalink

      You were complaining about attributions of mental illness. What was being said about Loughner (ie, he is a nut suffering from something like a schizophrenia spectum disorder) annoyed you and you proceded to make an abstruse point about calling some one irrational or mentally ill failing to ‘explain’ their behavior.

      As others have already remarked, has name-calling or attributing what anyone or any group does to irrational motives or mental states (or illness), ever explained the behaviour? Or is that just a means of excusing our inability or reluctance to explain behaviour?

      Well to answer your question it may not explain the behaviour in the technical sense you seem to be using it in, but nobody supposed that it did. You raised the possibility that others (by implication less astute that D.Longly) may believe that in order to knock it down. So you’re right it was not a red herring, it was a straw man. In relation to groups it was one you proceded to take seriously.

      “How could a group have a schizophrenia spectrum disorder”

      Through a higher proportion of (endogamous) groups having a higher frequency (prevalence) of high risk genes.

      !

      “Why is David Longley going off on tangents?”
      He is trying to show off.
      “That explains it.”

  55. walter benjamin's Gravatar walter benjamin
    January 11, 2011 - 12:16 pm | Permalink

    nothing in wiki on him being jewish.
    look at him, real white trash.
    and you want white{trash} supremacy?
    you all sick dudes and sick puppies

    • Bob Martin's Gravatar Bob Martin
      January 11, 2011 - 12:35 pm | Permalink

      walter benjamin says:

      nothing in wiki on him being jewish.
      look at him, real white trash.
      and you want white{trash} supremacy?
      you all sick dudes and sick puppies

      All the infighting here seems less important when you see the mindless hate we are up against.

    • Tom's Gravatar Tom
      January 11, 2011 - 1:25 pm | Permalink

      The way I read it, the AP will break the story soon.

      Even if you dismiss such diverse characters as Jamie Kelso, James Buchanan, and Mother Jones, don’t forget that newspaper bloggers in Arizona have beeen asking the same questions & saying the same things, since hours after the shooting.

  56. January 11, 2011 - 12:08 pm | Permalink

    Someday January 11, 2011 – 11:37 am “How could a group have a schizophrenia spectrum disorder”

    Through a higher proportion of (endogamous) groups having a higher frequency (prevalence) of high risk genes. Leaving aside the red herring of schizophrenia, consider the risk of breast cancer (BRCA1 and BRCA2 genes) or NCAH (CYP21) amongst the Ashkenazim relative to other groups.

    When professionals refer to groups (classes) they do so in terms of risk, i.e. actuarially. Individuals are assessed with reference to the group they belong to. If one says that Black Americans are more at risk of prostate cancer (AR gene CAGn repeats) than White Americans, or that Black Americans have a mean IQ one Standard Deviation below White Americans, it does not mean that all Black Americans will score 85, or that all Black Americans are equally at risk of prostate cancer. As pointed out in other comments, to understand how groups may be at risk of certain behaviours one has to speak in the language of probability (frequencies basically), classes and risk. This should also take the heat/sting out of racism. Sadly, all too few appreciate why, or that race is just a gene-barrier. Similarly, all too few appreciate how the quantifiers in statements work and how these are related (see an earlier comment in another post to Barbara).

    • Someday's Gravatar Someday
      January 11, 2011 - 1:38 pm | Permalink

      Schizophernia spectum disorders are not common enough to explain the behaviour of any group , that is a silly argument.

    • Someday's Gravatar Someday
      January 11, 2011 - 2:08 pm | Permalink

      Leaving aside the red herring of schizophrenia

      You brought up the possibility of the behaviour of a group being attributed to schizopheria spectrum disorder, so if group SSD is a red red herring it is your own. Anyway what we are discussing is the behavior of Loughner which I said was typical SSD. Your point that categorizing people as mentaly ill fails to explain their behavior behavior would seem to apply to any categorizing of a human being. Who would suppose that they had explained a person’s behavior by characterizing them as as schizotypal (or rational and reasonable for that matter) ?

  57. Jim's Gravatar Jim
    January 11, 2011 - 12:02 pm | Permalink

    Tom, thanks for posting that article.
    Also, here’s something from 1999:

    http://www.jweekly.com/article/full/10724/dylan-klebold-led-life-of-religious-contradictions/

    “DENVER — Dylan Klebold, one of two suspects in last week’s bloodbath at Columbine High School, led a life of contradictions. He admired Hitler, yet his great-great grandfather was a respected Jewish philanthropist in Ohio. His mother considered herself Jewish, yet the family belonged to a Lutheran church.”

    —–

    A recent Jewish blog suggested that Loughner may have read Mein Kampf as an act of defiance against his parents. He apparently didn’t get along with them. Part jewish…a pattern, maybe?

    • Tom's Gravatar Tom
      January 11, 2011 - 1:30 pm | Permalink

      Thanks. I’m really intrigued that newspaper bloggers & commenters in Arizona have been asking tough questions, and noting tough facts since hours after the shooting.

      If you get a chance check some of them out.

  58. Joyce's Gravatar Joyce
    January 11, 2011 - 11:54 am | Permalink

    This could be cleared up quickly. Subpoena Amy Loughner. Also, I would like to see an MRI of Jared’s brain. I bet there are large spots that are “cold.”

  59. Brahms's Gravatar Brahms
    January 11, 2011 - 9:54 am | Permalink

    Mental illness was definitely involved. Does anyone here have familiarity with the “Free man on the Land’ movement? I beleive that his writings fit quite well with their nonsense. For example – his empahasis in false grammar: they believe that the word “person” has been altered and the new meaning is only known by the courts. The person is the corporate entity (your name in all caps) and so, in court, they will not aknowledge this entity. The idea of the “second constitution” – another idea from this movement – they believe that the constitution was re-written to make America a corporation called “THE UNITED STATES” – all caps, etc… Gold and silver as the true currency also fits.

  60. January 11, 2011 - 9:18 am | Permalink

    When I first saw Loughner’s photo I said, ‘he’s Jewish.’
    Even when they have plastic surgery it is still very easy to spot them. Unlike say spotting a Christian Scientist or a Quaker.
    Crypsis only works on dozing Whites, not on Middle Eastern Muslims for instance. I was in Paris years ago with a gal that was HALF-JEWISH and we sat at a sidewalk cafe and this Arab walks up and says to her, “ARE YOU A JEWESS?”
    I thought to myself, by God, it is THAT obvious.

    Loughner IS one and the MJ merely confirms it for the naive.

  61. January 11, 2011 - 8:26 am | Permalink

    “Someday January 11, 2011 – 8:03 am Jared Loughner is just your typical person with a schizophenia spectum disorder who made his problem worse by smoking an awful lot of pot. ”

    As others have already remarked, has name-calling or attributing what anyone or any group does to irrational motives or mental states (or illness), ever explained the behaviour? Or is that just a means of excusing our inability or reluctance to explain behaviour?

    • Someday's Gravatar Someday
      January 11, 2011 - 11:37 am | Permalink

      “attributing what anyone or any group does to irrational motives”

      How could a group have a schizophrenia spectrum disorder, I don’t believe anyone actually suggested this, ever. The ‘others’ who remarked upon the unwisdom of such a suggestion were using a straw man tactic.

      I’m not sure what the rest of your comment means.

  62. January 11, 2011 - 8:24 am | Permalink

    JTA News Alert

    January 8, 2010

    Gabrielle Giffords critical after being shot in the head

    http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/national/gabrielle_giffords_critical_after_being_shot_head

    Excerpt:

    Giffords, 40, was raised “mixed” by a Christian Scientist mother and Jewish father, but said that after a visit to Israel in 2001, she had decided she was Jewish only. She attended services at a local Reform synagogue.

    She made her Jewish identity part of her campaign:

    “If you want something done, your best bet is to ask a Jewish woman to do it,” said Giffords, a former state senator, said at the time. “Jewish women — by our tradition and by the way we were raised — have an ability to cut through all the reasons why something should, shouldn’t or can’t be done and pull people together to be successful.”

    Peace.
    Michael Santomauro
    ReporterNotebook@gmail.com

  63. White nation's Gravatar White nation
    January 11, 2011 - 8:24 am | Permalink

    People want him to be Jewish, although he is not. If we pretend he is Jewish then we can blame it on them. Let’s just keep reporting it and people will believe it to be true.

    • Ciaran's Gravatar Ciaran
      January 11, 2011 - 4:21 pm | Permalink

      Hey Troll Jew Nation – Loughner’s a Hebe.

    • John's Gravatar John
      January 11, 2011 - 9:13 pm | Permalink

      White Nation burped:

      “People want him to be Jewish, although he is not. If we pretend he is Jewish then we can blame it on them. Let’s just keep reporting it and people will believe it to be true.”

      Nice try but you’re dead wrong.

      “The Jew is The Great Master of Lies.”

      Amen.

  64. Old Atlantic's Gravatar Old Atlantic
    January 11, 2011 - 7:53 am | Permalink

    MSM Reality Inversion Matrix

    (Columns may not line up too well as it comes out)

    MSM Reality

    Perp White Christian Jewish

    Victim Jewish Congresswoman White Christian judge

    Motive anti-immigration pro-immigration

    Politics right left

    v White pro anti

    hate crime against Jews against White Christians

    There is a civil rights case by Jared Taylor and Amren against DHS when combined with last year’s left wing anti White anarcho terrorism against the Amren conference and refusal of DOJ/FBI/DHS to investigate.

  65. January 11, 2011 - 7:43 am | Permalink

    Apologies, ‘People’s Republic of China’, but maybe the slip can be excused under the circumstances?

    http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,165453,00.html
    http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,384155,00.html

    Meanwhile, is it back to risky (impulsive and predatory?), anarchistic business here in our liberal/libertarian financial service and business sectors? Can we ever change under our current (Rawlsian?) Libertarian principles of liberal-democracy? Should we? Must there be a place for such behaviours in any society if such behaviours are prevalent and largely genetic? These are difficult questions.

    Lenin described Left-Opposition anarchists (e.g. Sylvia Pankhurst) as subject to an infantile disorder. Note that pathological narcissism (one of the four Axis II Cluster B Personality Disorder in DSM-IV, DSM-V is moving towards classing these disorders as extremes of normal personality note) is similar in half its statistical Factor Structure to psychopathy -cf. Hare) can be seen as arrested cognitive and personal development. Can that be sensibly said of a nation’s political economy, i.e as an inevitable function of population prevalence rates?

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/
    banks-need-to-take-risks-says-barclays-chief-bob-diamond-2181610.html

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/
    tough-talk-on-bank-bonuses-comes-to-nought-2181107.html

  66. January 11, 2011 - 6:07 am | Permalink

    Google Quine Rhetoric – and read what he wrote on rhetoric in his book ‘Quiddities’ (page 183 onwards). The truth is that Natural Language (the language which legislators speak and write in, and which is at the basis of governance and common sense) is very difficult to pin truth down in. It is thus not a very good vehicle for holding people accountable. This is the medium of political rhetoric and creative ‘freedom (to do as one pleases if one has a good ‘argumnet’?). ‘The Web of Belief’, written with Ullian (and designed for humanites students), was thus a bit of a miss in the above author’s view. Quine was at heart a scientist, and in science one has to learn new languages (physics, chenistry etc are languages essentially) which are largely extensional (where one is not so free to rhetorically *argue*).

    http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=wnfeBv0Dy_kC&pg=PA183&lpg=PA183&dq=quine+rhetoric&source=bl&ots=HDJteOKRDT&sig=b2HHQBfLvv6Y9IhiOaly6C8rogg&hl=en&ei=6DQsTcaBBo-5hAeC57D6CA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBsQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

    This, it should go without saying. in no way exonerates the actions in Arizona, but it may go some way towards explaining why the People’s Republic of Science is largely run by those trained in science. In the Libertarian democraices, politicians tend to not be science trained….

    • Someday's Gravatar Someday
      January 11, 2011 - 8:03 am | Permalink

      Jared Loughner is just your typical person with a schizophenia spectum disorder who made his problem worse by smoking an awful lot of pot. I think it will be difficult to judge how mentally ill he is until the drugs are out of his system. His hash-head ravings are of no significance except as a warning that those preoccupied with abstruse conspiracies can have a mental/drug problem.

      He might have told people he was part Jewish; maybe he is, maybe not. If he is of Jewish ancestry we will not hear nearly so much about this case in the future.

  67. felipeb's Gravatar felipeb
    January 11, 2011 - 4:15 am | Permalink

    Rabbi Aaron replied to an email I sent and stated that she did not know either Jared or Amy Loughner and that they were not part of the Jewish community of Tucson.

    • Ciaran's Gravatar Ciaran
      January 11, 2011 - 9:17 am | Permalink

      Yup. I believe that. Cause Jews never lie, or do naughty things.

      So – whatever happened to those rabbis, in NJ, runing that organ selling ring? Couldn’t have been real rabbis – must have been Al Quaida posing as rabbis oy vey ver vas G-d?

    • Tom's Gravatar Tom
      January 11, 2011 - 1:00 pm | Permalink

      I would dismiss the reports of such diverse pundits as Jamie Kelso, James Buchanan, and Mother Jones, but, there are also newspaper bloggers in Arizona who have been saying the same thing since hours after the “Safeway” shooting.

  68. Iconoclast's Gravatar Iconoclast
    January 11, 2011 - 1:31 am | Permalink

    Here’s my take on it:

    He was obviously stalking her, evidenced by the fact he kept a letter from her in his safe and had repeated contacts with her. A right-winger who hated her wouldn’t do that.

    She is pretty enough to attract a 22 year old’s love.

    He was probably scorned by her if he advanced on her, she is married to an astronaut after all.

    He was reportedly a leftist for most of his life.

    He must know how guilt by association works.

    He only very recently spouted right-wing rhetoric.

    What does this add up to?

    A scorned stalker’s vendetta against both his former stalkee and his political enemies (right-wingers) via guilt by association.

    Does this make sense?

  69. anne's Gravatar anne
    January 10, 2011 - 11:51 pm | Permalink

    @ Elizabeth –but he was a wordsmith and he would not use a wrong word so…

    He used the phrase “governement implying brainwash…” maybe he meant applying? So maybe he did mean Conscious Dreaming (there’s a book by that title, sort of a “how to.”)

  70. Ciaran's Gravatar Ciaran
    January 10, 2011 - 11:48 pm | Permalink

    “Saussere, Lacan, Derrida, Althusser”

    A pack of demented, masturbatory, poisonous retards. Should have been shoved off a high cliff. All of’em.

  71. January 10, 2011 - 11:33 pm | Permalink

    “‘What is government if words have no meaning?”

    I think this sentence has considerable lyrical beauty.
    Sometimes when you have to explain the punch line of a joke, the joke is ruined. Though not a joke, the beauty of the sentence is somewhat destroyed by having to explain it. But here goes. If the government is using words so inconsistently or with such creativity and political opportunism that the words really don’t mean anything, then how can you say that is a government.

    • January 12, 2011 - 10:10 pm | Permalink

      I’m not saying Jared is sane. Videos I’ve seen which show what he wrote – well it seemed like the guy had slipped into the deep end.

      I am simply pointing out that his sentence
      “‘What is government if words have no meaning?”
      taken by itself, has plenty of meaning and is also lyrical.

      The regular interpretation of the sentence would be something like this. If the government is using words so inconsistently or using them with such creativity and political opportunism that the words really don’t mean anything, then how can you say it is a government.

      Nor am I commenting one way or another on the different areas of knowledge brought up in this thread. They might have some validity. They might be crackers.

  72. Elizabeth's Gravatar Elizabeth
    January 10, 2011 - 11:29 pm | Permalink

    It kept bothering me that the links I was finding were saying Jared meant conscious dreaming or lucid dreaming but he was a wordsmith and he would not use a wrong word so I kept searching and here is a website on CONSCIENCE DREAMING
    http://www.experiencefestival.com/dream_dictionary_conscience
    It looks like a college course on dreaming to create a new global reality. Actually it says GLOBAL ONENESS Co-creating a happy world.
    Dream Dictionary Conscience
    A Wisdom Archive on Dream Dictionary Conscience

    That must have been what he meant about Sleep-Walking in the Mother Jones Article

    “My favorite activity is conscience dreaming: the greatest inspiration for my political business information. Some of you don’t dream—sadly.” In another video, he writes, “The population of dreamers in the United States of America is less than 5%!” Later in the same video he says, “I’m a sleepwalker—who turns off the alarm clock.”
    “When you realize you’re dreaming, you can do anything, you can create anything.”
    Loughner believed that dreams could be a sort of alternative, Matrix-style reality, and “that when you realize you’re dreaming, you can do anything, you can create anything,” Tierney says. Loughner started his “dream journal” in an attempt to take more control of his dreams, his friend notes, and he kept this journal for over a year.

  73. January 10, 2011 - 11:17 pm | Permalink

    To me, the question of which False God he and/or his family worships (Worshipping false Gods tends to make people crazy) is less important than the fact that America is churning out so many metally ill people the head of the world health organization called it “astonishing” and this is from the horses own mouth.
    What does it say about a country or people that never seem to be able to connect the dots from fiend to family…sombody RAISED this psychopath! I want to know WHO….their birth order, marital history, occupation etc.
    It is very telling that the news outlets never go there except to say something like “he came from a normal family” why don’t they do their jobs and dig a little so WE can decide whats normal..
    Could it be that Big Brother is afraid any real scrutiny of the Amercan family would expose the fact that it has been his policies that destroyed marriage?????

    • January 11, 2011 - 12:54 am | Permalink

      “To me, the question of which False God he and/or his family worships (Worshipping false Gods tends to make people crazy) is less important than the fact that America is churning out so many metally ill people the head of the world health organization called it “astonishing”
      —–
      Post-Christian, Judaized America is going to produce a lot of mentally ill people. Jewry itself produces a lot of mentally ill people, so it only follows. Loughner is perhaps and apparently just another victim of the Jewish cult that keeps its own people in a false consciousness into which it seeks to drag the rest of America.

      The second America finally succumbs once and for all, anyone and everyone will be able to march right through the entire country and the heels of the insane Jewish magician-swindlers, probably starting with La Raza and Mexican narco-terrorists.

      The Judaized wing of America is so sick and demented, it will probably enjoy watching its daughters get raped and murdered by tribal savages dragging the world back into the mire.

    • Jason Speaks's Gravatar Jason Speaks
      January 11, 2011 - 1:10 am | Permalink

      This is one guy in 300 million. There is no reason to think that some pandemic is underway. We are just buying into the hype the media is selling right now. There have been crazy murders who did similar things going all the way back to Andrew Jackson. It’s not a sign of the end times. Relax.

    • January 11, 2011 - 12:49 pm | Permalink

      “Relax.”
      Great advice, especially in a country that’s plummeting to the bottom at a record pace. “Relax.” That’s what the “elite” idiots running this country have been doing for the last 30 years. “Relax.” How’s that working out for all but the “chosen”? Not very damn well.
      But apparently Jason is happy with the corrupt, liberal-capitalist status quo and wants more of the same. Which begs the question: what is he doing here?

  74. January 10, 2011 - 10:57 pm | Permalink

    From the description provided by the friend, it looks to me like some kind of schizophrenia–for example, believing in an alternate reality where he could fly and where he could dream anything he wanted and make it seem real.

    Kevin,

    I thought the friend said Loughner believed he had the ability to control his own dreams.

    This is called lucid dreaming, and is widely known to actually exist.

    Belief in lucid dreaming does not constitute a delusion.

  75. Gray Prince's Gravatar Gray Prince
    January 10, 2011 - 10:53 pm | Permalink

    Kind of an interesting aside point: Loughner seemed to be deriving a lot of his ideas from recent movies. His friend Tierney, who pointed out his Jewish background, said that Loughner was influenced by the Joker character from the Batman movie. Where does all his “conscious dreaming” fantasy derive from? He can create anything while he’s dreaming, etc. It’s from the recent movie Inception. He wasn’t even an original psycho.

  76. Elizabeth's Gravatar Elizabeth
    January 10, 2011 - 8:20 pm | Permalink

    In his video he had a lot of numbers when he was discussing the meaning of grammer.
    Now that I know he is Jewish, that would make perfect sense. Every Hebrew letter has a numbical equivalent. Kabbalah maybe. Does anyone know what the numbers in the video might mean?

    • Anglo Saxon's Gravatar Anglo Saxon
      January 11, 2011 - 5:58 am | Permalink

      @ Elizabeth …
      The association of letters with numbers originated (possibly) in Babylon, with the Chaldeans. That place and that era is the source of Judaism’s madness/psychoses.

      The methodology to which you refer is actually called Gematria and as you suggested, it is indeed used extensively within the Kabbalah.

      Here is a webpage that lists the letters of the Hebrew alphabet, along with their numerical equivalents. Scroll down a little to see the number/letter tabulation:
      http://www.jewfaq.org/alephbet.htm

      The webpage says: “For example, the number 18 is very significant, because it is the numerical value of the word Chai, meaning life. Donations to Jewish charities are routinely made in denominations of 18 for that reason.”

      As you might guess, the Gematria is the true source of the Western world’s use (or misuse!) of Numerology.

      Best wishes,
      Angelsachse

  77. Elizabeth's Gravatar Elizabeth
    January 10, 2011 - 7:59 pm | Permalink

    Jared has a lot of very strange connections. Of course these are all probably just coincidences we could find in anyone’s life….. NOT
    __________
    On his facebook page that has been taken down now, he said he is looking for men, works for Child Protective Services, ABOUT JARED he says:Love hunting trolls and children, I want to be a woman one day…
    Most people just don’t seem to understand me, but I’m gonna prove to you all how wrong you are…
    My favorite interest was reading, and I studied grammar. Conscience dreams were a great study in college!
    Fools who don’t understand the law are bound to suffer under it!
    ______________

    The School he attended is according to World Net Daily article today:

    Bill Ayers, communist provided Arizona shooter’s curriculum? http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=249429#ixzz1AfQn2CC9
    _________________
    The Judge had some odd connections too.
    http://www.thetotalcollapse.com/top-us-federal-judge-assassinated-after-threat-to-obama-agenda/
    _________________________
    Conscience Dreaming is interesting too:
    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2653758/posts

  78. Gray Prince's Gravatar Gray Prince
    January 10, 2011 - 7:51 pm | Permalink

    Oh no, it wouldn’t rule out anti-semitism as a motive; it would only confirm the theory of the “self-hating Jew.” Any time there is a crime against a person of Jewish or mixed Jewish heritage (Gifford is half Jewish according to Wikipedia) there is a rush to make it appear anti-semitic. However, when the perpetrator is Jewish the fact is meticulously omitted because, of course, “it doesn’t matter”. Witness the Philip Markoff case. Never have his Jewish origins been mentioned by any media outlet of significance. I communicated with someone from a minor Jewish web publication who called his father’s dentist office to confirm that he was Jewish.

    Is there any evidence of anti-semitic motivation by Loughner?

    • John's Gravatar John
      January 11, 2011 - 7:21 pm | Permalink

      There’s no evidence whatsoever that this crime was motivated by anti-Jewish bias. Zero. Zip. Nada.

    • Baltasar Nordstrom's Gravatar Baltasar Nordstrom
      January 12, 2011 - 10:07 pm | Permalink

      Several years back there was also a murder of a quiet couple in New Hampshire (academics perhaps) who collected Nazi memorabilia. The two teenage boys who brutally murdered them were both Jewish. The press in Boston at that time, at least the Globe if I remember, made it look like they chose this house for murder at random.

  79. tory gallore's Gravatar tory gallore
    January 10, 2011 - 7:40 pm | Permalink

    Interesting that this happenned in arizona where the seeds of an american insurrection seemed to be sprouting…the sacrificial jew springs into action for the sake of his tribe, a la jack ruby or the jews who died for “civil rights” in the early sixties: we all know how those events turned out…this could end up as the excuse for disarming the people of arizona before unleashing millions of murderous mexicans upon them; you think it cant happen? This jared loughner is no lunatic, just as jack ruby was not avenging kennedy’s assasination. just another classic move, people.

  80. felipeb's Gravatar felipeb
    January 10, 2011 - 7:10 pm | Permalink

    Jared Loughner is not Jewish. He cannot be Jewish. Jews are victims, the only important victims. Jews are never guilty of anything. Example the shooters at Columbine High School were not Jews. They did not intend to flee to Israel. Their diaries lied. Get with the program.

    Repeat:

    Jews are victims.
    Jews are innocent.
    Therefore, Jews are innocent victims.

    Repeat until you believe it.
    You are now qualified.
    Apply to be an expert for the NYT, WSJ, PBS, NBC. CBS, ABC, etc.

    • John's Gravatar John
      January 11, 2011 - 6:50 pm | Permalink

      Did anyone mention that there runs a higher than average occurence of mental illness amonst Jews? I’m not making this up. Jared is a perfect example of this.

    • joe P's Gravatar joe P
      January 14, 2011 - 6:35 pm | Permalink

      Felipeb, brilliant point. I lived around Jews for 40 years and saw them parlay the victim angle into dominating hollywood, politics, sports team ownership, medicine, banking way beyond their numbers. The only thing they don’t dominate per capita is the military, very few of them are willing to fight for this country.

  81. January 10, 2011 - 6:58 pm | Permalink

    “According to the friend, Loughner disliked Giffords because she didn’t answer a his question at a public meeting. The question: “‘What is government if words have no meaning?”

    In other words, he is a nut case who has trouble with distinguishing real from unreal. From the description provided by the friend, it looks to me like some kind of schizophrenia”

    Quine (see ‘Two Dogmas of Empircism’ (1951) and ‘Word and Object’ (1960)) had a lot to say on the issue of language without meaning (intension), as did Skinner in ‘Verbal Behavior’ (1957). As these were their most important and influential contributions to modern epistemology, philosophy of science and Behavior Analysis, one hopes they aren’t to be dismissed as schizophrenics (they too are hard to read).

    Whilst they wouldn’t have had much time for modern politicians and their nefarious rhetoric either, they would never have been driven to quite such desperate measures of course. Having said that, some of the enemies of the USA (and the Libertarian West in general) may well be, and indeed have been, over the past decade or so, so let’s not forget that. Or are we to dismiss their politics and actions as those of extremist psychotics too? If so, all we can look forward to is more of the same surely?

    • Der weiße Engel's Gravatar Der weiße Engel
      January 10, 2011 - 9:12 pm | Permalink

      Yes, it’s actually not a bad question at all, even a question that shows great insight. One might rephrase it less abstractly as “What is the American government if the words of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights have no meaning?” And of course, in a world where the Bill of Rights has been re-interpreted to mean nearly the exact opposite of what it originally meant, and the Constitution is honored more in the breach than in the observance, that’s a very good question. Possible answers: a form of mind control; a way the group enforces its norms on the individual; organized violence. People who come to this conclusion might be capable of anything, and the group that wishes to preserve its norms is probably right to fear them and call them insane. It’s definitely an abnormal way of thinking.

    • Jason Speaks's Gravatar Jason Speaks
      January 10, 2011 - 9:21 pm | Permalink

      How dare Der weiße Engel speak of the constitution. You spent weeks denigrating the Founding Fathers and now you speak of the constitution? You have no moral right to speak of the Bill of Rights. You called American military men cowards – in many of your posts. How dare you count on the freedom to speak that American servicemen provide you and then turn around and spit on them. Typical Leftist scum.

    • January 10, 2011 - 10:53 pm | Permalink

      Yes, it’s actually not a bad question at all, even a question that shows great insight.

      It also showed something approaching a poetic sensibility.

      Really a haunting and well constructed block of words.

      “What is government if words have no meaning?”

      That is nothing less than deep.

      I would certainly rank it far superior to anything Derrida has written.

      Considering this, there’s something hilarious and ironic about the media projecting banal political motives on Jared Lee Loughner.

      He rather had this vision of the government destroying the meaning of words, and the possiblity of meaningful communication through them.

      Perhaps this is why Giffords’ failure to acknowledge the import of his question so upset him.

      Of course Loughner’s evident mental issues probably influenced his vision.

      But as Shakespeare wrote:

      Lovers and madmen have such seething brains, such shaping fantasies, that apprehend more than cool reason ever comprehends.

    • Someday's Gravatar Someday
      January 11, 2011 - 7:16 am | Permalink

      Say a word and it meand somthing right? Now repeat it over and over agian , it will begin to lose its meaning.

      Look into a mirror, if you keep looking long enough you will look like a stranger. That ‘s what Loughner was talkining about , typical schizo.

  82. January 10, 2011 - 6:07 pm | Permalink

    From a New York Times report on Loughner:

    “As I knew him he was left wing, quite liberal. & oddly obsessed with the 2012 prophecy,” the former classmate, Caitie Parker, wrote in a series of Twitter feeds Saturday. “I haven’t seen him since ’07 though. He became very reclusive.”
    “He was a political radical & met Giffords once before in ’07, asked her a question & he told me she was ‘stupid & unintelligent,’ ” she wrote…
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/us/politics/09shooter.html?_r=2&hp
    —————
    So we have a radical leftie (fairly common within American Jewry) who knows Giffords (from synagoge?) and declares her stupid. He probably knows that Giffords’ mother wasn’t Jewish, but her father was, so with typical Jewish haughtiness believes her to be a fraud because racist Jewry only believes Jewishness can be passed down through the mother…that’s motive right there, at least in the mind of a nutcase Jewish-leftie extremist.

    Additionally, he may have been on psychiatric drugs, which is a common “answer” turned to by Jewry and its emulators in crumbling, basket-case, Judaized America…
    http://www.naturalnews.com/030953_Gabrielle_Giffords_shooting.html

    • ben tillman's Gravatar ben tillman
      January 11, 2011 - 11:53 am | Permalink

      So she’s a “fake” — meaning a fake Jew — because she couldn’t come up with a bullshit response to the bullshit question? Interesting idea.

  83. Tom's Gravatar Tom
    January 10, 2011 - 5:47 pm | Permalink

    Jamie Kelso says on his news forum:

    “Loughner Is Jewish But His Synagogue Congregation Chaverim Hid This Fact From America

    ——————————————————————————–

    Jared Loughner Is Jewish
    But His Synagogue Congregation Chaverim and Rabbi Stephanie Aaron
    And The Media Have Been Caught
    Hiding This Fact Revealed By WhiteNewsNow
    From Americans

    This is an amazing story. We now learn that Jared Lee Loughner’s mother Amy Loughner is a member of the SAME Reform synagogue as Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords! That means that Amy’s son, who lives with his Jewish parents, Amy and Randy Loughner, is ALSO a member of the same synagogue as his shooting victim, Rep. Giffords.

    Why didn’t we hear about this from our super-sleuth national media?

    Instead we hear that a White man is the shooter. We hear that anti-Semitism is his motive.

    But now…now…some FACTS are leaking out!

    His best friend, Bryce Tierney, who got a “farewell” voice message the night before the shootings tells us that his friend is Jewish. He tells us that Jared Loughner put Mein Kampf down as “favorite reading” to irritate his Jewish mother, Amy.

    The story and the coverup of the story gets wilder. The Loughners and the Giffords were members of the same Congregation Chaverim. On the Congregation Chaverim website we learn that this Reform synagogue that was founded in 1973 has 140 families. That’s a very small group. The Rabbi, Stephanie Aaron surely knows every single family member of her congregation on a first name basis! That includes 22-year-old Jared Lee Loughner.

    So, it is IMPOSSIBLE that Rabbi Stephanie Aaron did not KNOW instantly upon learning that a Jared Lee Loughner had shot Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords that BOTH people were members of her small congregation!

    But does Rabbi Aaron make ANY effort to inform the media, as she takes hundreds and hundreds of media calls from the mass media, of this fact?

    Apparently not!

  84. Lee Earl Ray's Gravatar Lee Earl Ray
    January 10, 2011 - 4:53 pm | Permalink

    As far fetched as it may seem, maybe the whole thing is a (mini) false flag op. A test. I wouldn’t put it past the folks in charge.

    • Jason Speaks's Gravatar Jason Speaks
      January 10, 2011 - 9:05 pm | Permalink

      I wonder if things can happen that aren’t false flags? Like anything at all.

    • Someday's Gravatar Someday
      January 11, 2011 - 4:45 am | Permalink

      “A.D.E” Vague speculation on religious themes is indeed a common symptom of schizophrenia spectrum disorders. Another one is the the idea that there is a hidden conspiracy which is controling minds by occult means.
      Unfortunately those afflicted with such delusions think they have an infallible key to understanding events and clog up the comments by rambling on endlessly in their personal argot. Are you listening Severus ?

  85. anne's Gravatar anne
    January 10, 2011 - 4:41 pm | Permalink

    Who knows?

    But the reference to his interest in semiotics (as stated in Mother Jones) is interesting. This would necessarily be attached to structuralism and semiotics today: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semiotics

    The writers in that canon would be all from the New Left (following after Saussere into Lacan, Derrida, Foucault, and perhaps most importantly Althusser). These books are taught in all humanities programs, or at least their perspectives.

    Saussere in the hands of a 22 year-old –who would be reading over his head with no instruction— may have confused him in regards to the relation of words and meaning. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structuralism)

    Few in the general public perhaps would connect what he is saying to the New Left and studies in the connections between words and meaning. This can be unsettling for someone who is young, nor schooled in the connections between signs and symbols and meaning (structuralism, the new left, semiotics, semantics, the Prague and Moscow schools).

    Perhaps— (crazy though he is) he seems trying to articulate what might be commonplace in semiotics studies while reading the New Left, like in universities, (where signs are simply signs, not connected to things to which they refer, and are studied as such). One non-jew involved (outside Lacan, Derrida, etc.) was Kenneth Burke and this recalls his “A Grammar of Motives” or Language as Symbolic Action. (He was educated in the 20s at Columbia University).

    Anyhow— he may have been somehow exposed to some of these New Left materials without instruction or a way to understand (or been exposed to the “filtered down” ideas in these studies.

    Obviously, the New Left here is offering ways of thinking about signs, symbols and meaning that are not usually studied by many people, except in colleges.

    • Alex's Gravatar Alex
      January 11, 2011 - 10:18 am | Permalink

      I think you mean “Saussure”, who was a Swiss and not a Jew. Lacan was a Gentile.

    • Mark's Gravatar Mark
      January 15, 2011 - 4:12 pm | Permalink

      Read http://blogs.jta.org/politics/article/2011/01/12/2742519/loughners-jewish-mother-not-so-much which shows that Jared Loughner’s mother was not really Jewish

    • brian's Gravatar brian
      January 27, 2011 - 11:04 am | Permalink

      “B.C.E. stands for Before Common Era, a way that Jewish scholars commonly refer to the period before Christ was born without referring to anything Christian. Non-Jews don’t use it unless they are trying to impress Jews with their respect for Jewish hostility toward Christianity.” -Dear Lord that has got to be one of the Stupidest comments I have ever read!!! LMAO!!!! OMG!!! Yeah….B.C.E. is just a Jewish Conspiracy…….WOW. Unbelievable the amount of retarded Ideas you can find on the Internet. Well if anything that did give me a really good laugh.

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