The Obama Administration’s announcement of a complete troop withdrawal from Iraq is a stunning defeat for the neocons. The neocon plan was an indefinite military presence in Iraq on the model of the continuing American military bases in Japan and Germany after WWII. Obviously, Iran is a big winner, at least for now, with an ally in the Shiite-dominated government of Iraq.
Of great interest is whether Iraq will maintain the democratic institutions established by the Americans. In the long run, I suspect that from the viewpoint of the neocons, the operation certainly bought time — the time needed for Iraq to rebuild and once again pose a danger to Israeli interests.
It’s too soon to tell, but I expect Iraq will revert to the Arabic norm of autocratic governments cemented by kinship ties among a dominant elite. Democracy is a Western institution with at best shallow roots in the rest of the world. The biggest lie in the neocon Iraq war promotion (apart from WMD—facilitated by neocons manning U.S. intelligence services; see here, p. 48ff)) was academic Middle East expert Bernard Lewis (a strong Zionist with close personal relationships with the Israeli political and military establishment) maintaining that there was a long tradition of democracy in Arab cultures that could easily be unleashed by a military invasion. Lewis is a textbook example where a strongly identified Jew uses his status as a professor at an elite institution (Princeton) and access to the elite media to advance his ethnic interests.
When Iraq reverts to form, it will be yet another nail in the coffin that non-Western peoples can easily adopt Western cultural forms. This is the basis not only of the neocons’ rationale for invading the world, it is also a subtext for why immigration into Western countries does not endanger the institutional framework of the host societies. As repeatedly maintained at TOO, when Whites become a political minority in the foreseeable future, there will be a decline and eventual eradication of European cultural forms of democracy, constitutionalism, and the illegitimacy of close kinship connections as the basis for political power. Whites have much to fear about a future without constitutional protections surrounded by peoples with a strong sense of historical hatred motivated by real and imagined injustices at the hands of Whites. The fact that intellectual basis for has been so firmly planted among our elites and in a substantial proportion of the people as well is a long term disaster for Whites.
The other day I saw Sean Hannity dismissing any threat from immigration because the culture will remain. Dream on. And why would you risk everything on a belief (that Western cultural forms will be maintained no matter what the ethnic structure of the population) when that belief may well not be true. Indeed, all we know about the costs of multiculturalism shows the flimsy basis of the multicultural, diversity-is-good ideology. The key finding is that there is much more conflict in multicultural societies—conflict that has often resulted in deadly violence and victimization of the relatively powerless. Can we really trust the assurances of an intellectual establishment dominated by people who have repeatedly shown that they are far more concerned with advancing their ethnic interests than in dealing with reality?
Not to mention that the ethnic interests of Whites are clearly compromised even if Western cultural forms were to endure.
Naturally, the neocons are not at all happy with this outcome. Writing in the LA Times, Frederick W. Kagan (American Enterprise Institute) and Kimberly Kagan (Institute for the Study of War, yet another neocon lobbying group) note that Iraq fails to meet the appropriate standards of sovereignty, stability and self-reliance—all touted by Obama in his rationale for troop withdrawal:
Its sovereignty is hollow because of the continued activities of Iranian-backed militias in its territory. Its stability is fragile, since the fundamental disputes among ethnic and sectarian groups remain unresolved. And it is not in any way self-reliant. The Iraqi military cannot protect its borders, its airspace or its territorial waters without foreign assistance.
Note particularly the point that ethnic and sectarian conflict has not been resolved and, as they say later, “are likely to devolve into armed conflict once again.” I agree, and the result is that eventually Iraq will revert to the Arab norm, as outlined above, in which there is a dominant elite cemented ultimately by kinship and with at best the trappings of democracy. Contrary to the neocon perspective, staying there another 50 years would not change this likely outcome.
The biggest worry for Kagan and Kagan is that Israel’s greatest enemy is the big winner:
In a year that also saw the “Arab Spring,” it will ultimately be Iran that emerges ascendant in Iraq and throughout the Middle East. America’s defeat is nothing to be relieved about.
The idea that America has anything to fear from an ascendant Iran and a rebuilt Iraq is preposterous, but it’s a different story from the perspective of Israel and its supporters.
For the neocons this is a defeat, but not fatal. If Iran is the winner, this lends even more urgency to the neocon promotion of a war with Iran. These efforts are continuing apace, now under the guise of retaliation for the supposed Iranian plan to assassinate the Saudi ambassador. One wonders just how such a plan could possibly be a pretext for the U.S. attacking Iran, but in the neocon intellectual wonderland, it makes perfect sense. Any rationale with even a shred of plausibility will be trotted out in the war against Israel’s enemies.
Facing the Future as a Minority
Iran, yes, long term. But it was Syria Traitor McCain was beating the war drums for a few days ago.
As usual, awesome analysis KM!
Hannity is so delusional I’m wondering who is core audience is at this point?
1.) The educated class of non-white America has gone to college- not to learn American Exceptionalism, but anti-White Anti-American Marxism. They are taught a SUBVERSIVE ideology which attacks American culture on all fronts.
2.) The Non White version of the American dream is not to live in a multi-cult hellhole, but to live in a harmonious ethnic enclave running true to their ancestral culture. Where’s the assimilation Hannity? LA County is demarcated along racial zones. Foul up the zones and you will be handled accordingly-LA riots style!
Not a single neocon will suffer a career setback of a loss of credibilty in the MSM for being wrong. Being Jewsih means you never have to pay.
Look for the Mossad to sink an american warship or civilian American Passenger jet to work the mob into another war frenzy..ala 9/11
Only chance Iran has is to actually GET the Bomb,and FAST!
@henry baxley:
Not saying the mossad did 9/11. Just saying they used it for war propaganda
The other day I saw Sean Hannity dismissing any threat from immigration because the culture will remain. Dream on.
This is exactly the problem. They deny the genetic basis for human behavior. They believe in culture-only models in which the right upbringing, education and environment will allow them to create any kind human being they want. Dream on, indeed. Even on this site, you get people who believe if only the expressions of Jewish culture were changed, then all of our problems will be solved. It’s the Talmud, the Synagogue, the interlocking banking networks – get rid of those and the problem is solved.
Nope. Those are important but they are just manifestations of something deeper rooted in genes.
Americans these days, including oddly some WNs, have a deep antipathy to the importance of genes.
Apart from their unchecked zionophilia, pseudo-intellectual bleatings and propensity to lie as frequently as they blink – the zio-cons, ultimately, are shills for a fascist State with its prerequisite military-security complex.
Judaic academics, in general, can boast of a long history of pro-tribal activism.
The father of a mega zio-con Daniel Pipes named Richard spent – gasp – 46 years as Harvard University’s Grand Poobah on all things related to Russia.
Richard Pipes had managed to devote a fairly large chunk of that time arguing that Jews had little if any role to play when it came to installing and solidifying the power of the cannibalistic Bolshevik regime in Russia.
Now in Bizarro World which Pipes Sr. – clearly – calls home one may as well claim that Americans of African descent had no hand in the emergence and development of music genre that came to be known as jazz.
P.S. Fed up with his cooked-to-order anti-Russian propaganda, Solzhenitsyn eventually dismissed Richard Pipes as a tool and an academic hustler. Richard’s response was to accuse his critic, drum roll, of anti-semitism™ .
Let’s hope the failure in Iraq will let enough time pass before the next debacle to allow more of the Zionized American public wake up .
The Zionists probably won’t get America to attack Iran for a few more months. Obama’s resisting, and his support for the “Arab Spring” has knocked over 3 pro-Israel MidEast tinhorns, and others may follow. And, once US troops leave Iraq, it’s Shia regime will ally with Iran against Israel. Meanwhile the Zionists themselves have enraged Turkey with the Gaza Flotilla Massacre. Altogether, things are looking worse and worse for the Jewish campout in Palestine, and I suspect that the number of reverse-aliyah’s (cf. Bar Sarah Rafaeli) is increasing by the day….which in turn will sharpen awareness of the Jewish problem in America; just yesterday, listening in on a conversation between two White college girls in the back seat of my cab, I heard something I’d never heard before: openly anti-Jewish remarks. Given that the eventual US-Israel assault on Iran will close the Hormuz Straits, cut off most of Japan and China’s oil, and thus collapse the dollar and with it the US Ponzi-economy, I’d say we’re in for a mid-to-late 2012 Perfect Storm: electoral political crisis + economic collapse + MegaWar. Overall, bad for the Jews…and good for us. Chaos is our friend.
Well, guess what. It did.
“The fact that intellectual basis for has been so firmly planted among our elites and in a substantial proportion of the people as well is a long term disaster for Whites.”
What?
However, what Obama did not say during the White House press conference that his administration had suffered a major military and diplomatic humiliation by Iraqi government’s rejection of Washington’s plea to maintain some of its 12 military bases in Iraq beyond 2011.
The Republican and Tea Party leaders have blasted Obama’s decision as a victory for Iran. Dennis McDonough, the White House deputy national security adviser, tried to calm down the pro-Israel warmongers by assuring them the American withrawal is not a sign of growing Iranian influence in the region. “You see an Iran that is weaker and more isolated,” he said and supported his lie by mentioning the alleged Iranian plot to kill Saudi ambassador in Washington.
http://rehmat1.wordpress.com/2011/10/22/iraqis-reject-us-bases-after-military-withdrawal/
“The neocon plan was an indefinite military presence in Iraq on the model of the continuing American military bases in Japan and Germany after WWII.”
Yes. That’s what all the evidence suggests.
During the invasion of Iraq, I prayed for the swift success of American forces, so that they could be home within months, with the weapons of mass destruction gone and the manufacturing plants destroyed, with the Arab appetite for freedom (so long suppressed) allowed to burst forth in its natural shape as secular democracy, so that our soldiers etc. would not have to endure a whole year in that miserable, distant place.
Looking back, it’s hard to believe I could have been so deluded. But this is how it works when it’s no only the mass media that’s been corrupted but academia too: the more diligently you attend to the best credentialed public authorities (such as Bernard Lewis), the more you are misled.
Bernard Lewis the ‘Dean’ of Islamophobe Orientalists is a bigot and liar. He has a long history of distorting Arab-Jewish history. Though he reconizes that Muslim Spain created the ‘Jewish Golden Age’ – he believes that Jews are more closer to White race than Muslims…. as Islam is no compatiable with the modern age….
http://rehmat1.wordpress.com/2011/10/08/spain-jewish-history-without-muslims/
@MajikFireHornet: What about an asteroid strike? Add that to your potion and we will global upheaval.
One struggles to even fathom what these raving lunatics earnestly expected to see play out in Iraq once Saddam was no longer in the picture.
Like getting a political non-entity, which is what “their” boy Chalabi of CIA-spawned Iraqi National Congress was, to grab the Big Seat with subsequent resuscitation of the old, rusted up Mosul-Haifa pipeline.
Little did they know that bullshyt artist Chalabi was an Iranian double agent playing them.
Though red flags started to go up rather early in the Iraq disaster. Such as when general Franks came through with his famous description of undersecretary Feith as ‘the f*cking stupidest guy on the face of the earth’.
Who, as some of you may recall, served as #3 Pentagon civilian under lapsed trotskyite Wolfowitz that, in turn, reported to Donald ‘Osama Hides in a Cave’ Rumsfeld.
Democratic institutions in Britain, for example, evolved over many years, accompanied by bloody conflicts between Puritans versus Royalists, between Protestants versus Catholics, between classes, and so on. Americans are led to believe if a country is bombed to pieces, it soon can be made democratic.
The Neo-cons so far have shown themselves to be men of limited intellects(at best) living in a echo chamber of self-congratulation. None of them should have been anywhere near the levers of power given their delusional thinking.
So far every one of their invasions or putsch has been a failure and another nail in the coffin for Israel. Libya, Tunisia, Egypt and Iraq are either in the Islamist camp or will be shortly. Turkey is following suit after toppling the Kemalists within the military. Yemen is one assassin bullet away from being a Salafist strong hold.
Afghanistan is bleeding our military white and is a complete disaster. Even if the Neo-clods wanted to attack Iran, we don’t have the resources for anything larger than a air raid.
If I were Israel I’d be sweating blood about now. Because their inbred, moronic proxies have roiled the entire Muslim world against the Jews like never before. Yet they still don’t get it.
Forrest Gump is a genius compared to this sorry lot.
Libyan ‘rebels’ are in the the process of instituting Sharia law. Tunisian Islamists just boasted a respectable showing @ the polls. The issue of Muslim Brotherhood taking over Egypt is one of when rather than if. First thing to be flushed down the toilet is going to be the peace treaty with Israel. Rumblings already are being heard from Egyptian military brass that ‘we don’t need the f*cking Jews telling us how far into our Sinai we can advance’.
Meantime the ‘international community’ is busy trying to get the sectarian fires really going in Syria. Should that country go up in flames, it will make the notoriously savage Lebanese civil war look like a bagel bake-off.
Professor Macdonald;
“The fact that intellectual basis for has been so firmly planted among our elites and in a substantial proportion of the people as well is a long term disaster for Whites.”
Omit “for”? As your views are more widely disseminated, it’s no time to forget a spelling and grammar check! Similarly with another recent article.
Folks you can’t make this stuff-up!
Excerpt:
The Jewish Defense League seeks to combat not only the multifarious physical and spiritual forms of Jew-hatred but also the spiritual malaise of Jewish indifference and ignorance, and the threat of Jewish affection for the non-Jew.
As if we face too few external threats, an alarming number of Jews willingly flee from Judaism into melting pots, secular “culture” and morality, and often most devastatingly the arms of non-Jewish spouses. The unfortunate reality of the situation is that assimilation and intermarriage have done more to destroy Jewish souls than most every form of persecution and act of genocide we have suffered as a people throughout time immemorial.
More:
http://www.jdl.org/index.php/threats-adversaries/assimilation-intermarriage/
–
Peace.
Michael Santomauro
New York City
This is a false dilema, and I see the reasoning frequently; it makes my blood boil because of its brazzen stupidity. The reasoning is: “I want to preserve my civilisation so I must encourage vast numbers of Blacks/Latinos/Asians/etc to immigrate into my country to do the work lazy Whites won’t even if it means displacing my own genetic type”
A civilisations value is in its function in its function in helping to preserving a genetic peoples rather than the other way around. Are these people really so deluded?
A similar reasoning comes from market economists who would rather see high GDP growth but don’t care about GDP/capita or high housing prices as a sign of prosperity when this is merely a sign of a speculative investment bubble that has transfered wealth and made having children expensive.
@Bear: These bad conservatives have decided that genetics don’t matter. Fools. In the case of Hannity I don’t think he is evil, I just think he is pretty dumb. But, of course, both could be true. He at least gave Pat Buchanan a big platform to launch his book which is worth something.
@Z.O.G.: I agree. But not unassisted, either.
I agree with KM’s other points but not the notion of Iraq as a defeat to the neocons. This is why:
- The top neocon priority was to remove Iraq as a threat to Israel in the ME. This has been accomplished. Israel is good at dealing with chaotic border states and doesn’t perceive that as a threat. Chaotic states are easy to defend against and easy to infiltrate and manipulate.
Iraq no longer exists as a powerful entity in the ME, so the neocons have secured their top priority.
All the other stuff, about occupations and Japan and West Germany like transformations. These were all “good-to-haves” but no sweat either way.
The withdrawal from Iraq is also a neocon victory, because this is vital in order to maximize the chances of persuading America to now attack Iran.
@Daybreaker: He means Christian Whites have been woefully conned by Jews – and now the “Evangelical” Zio-Xians will do ANYTHING to “Bless Israel” -and curse themselves. The Zio-Xians are willing dupes.
According to Israeli columnist Aluf Benn – Lieutenant-General Gabi Ashkenazi, the retiring Chief of Israel Occupation Force (IOF) told the Defense Minister Ehud Barak that “initiating a war (with Iran) will only bring disaster upon Israel”. Ehud returned General’s professional advice by not extending his one-year service which is customary. Gabi Ashkenazi took command of IOF in 2007 after the resignation of General Dan Halutz whose 30,000-strong Jewish Army was humiliated by Hezollah rsistance fighters during the 34-day Israeli invasion of Lebanon in Summer 2006.
Ehud Barak has named General Yoav Galant, the incharge of Israel’s Gaza front, to succeed him. “The impression is that Galant is more aggressive on Iran and will not block Netanyahu and Barak, who are eager to go into battle” against Iran, the Haaretz report said…..
http://rehmat1.wordpress.com/2011/01/14/4-israeli-generals-warned-bibi-against-attacking-iran/
@Mickey Meadows: Yup. The thing is – America is played out. Peope are starting to snap out of it. People are BROKE. Businesses are failing ll over. Jews print up money for themselves ,ad are still floating their Dark Proxies – but Whitey is all played out. And Whitey pays for everything. Whitey is tired. Whiey just wants a nomralcy that will not ever happen again. Whitey is JUSt beginning ot clue into thei fact. The Teap Party males I know are saying things like “We can’t afford another war in the Mid East” The deranged TP females are another matter – but when they can no longer afford basics, like bread, and fuel – they’ll start to listen to the men.
Should Jewry – and Israel and Jewry are the SAME – stage anothe False Flag event – I think the General Population is going to be much more open to an nvestigation of facts. Not as easily stampeded by Faux News. And I don’t only mean Whites. Blacks and Browns are VERY hip to the Jew. They are going along with the program, because it’s in their interests to do so now – but when Reality gets really real – they won’t die for their Kosher Pals. No one will. Russia and China will NOT play along. Russia and China are palsy walsy with the International Jude – but they won”’t send their troops to attack Iran. QUITE the opposite.
Jews, for their vaunted Highest IQ, and take-over, and attendant wreckage of Western Civ, aren’t so smart after all. They’ve painted themselves into a corner. They’ve wrecked the Best Host they’ve ever had. When Whitey goes -so do they.
@MajikFireHornet:
“Chaos is our friend”
You may be right. lol
@Michael Santomauro:
So….The Zionists are being threatened by MULTICULTI…
lol lol lol, and tee hee, also ha ha ha ha ha…
I almost forgot ROFLMFAO!
People ARE waking up. Young college grads who have endured the academic elite because they believed that was the price they had to pay to get ahead are at the head of the line. No jobs and huge student loans are not a pretty future. OWS and the Tea party both know the enemy.
“The biggest lie in the neocon Iraq war promotion (apart from WMD…)”
In the same vein as the WMD allegation, but slightly different, was the claim that Saddam’s brutality had resulted in thousands if not millions of victims, and not just Kurds. And he was still at it in 2003, feeding his political opponents feet first into paper shredders (!!!).
It was claimed that an American military invasion would possibly kill a few thousand Iraqis, but in the long run would save even more Iraqis from the paper shredders. Personally, I have become distrustful of neocon arithmetic. In the end, the American invasion unleashed violent fights between rival factions.
“I saw Sean Hannity dismissing any threat from immigration because the culture will remain.”
So far, White people are still a majority but have not been able to maintain their culture, even less to impose white behavior among non-white immigrants. Hannity needs to explain what makes him think that the non-whites will start behaving like whites once the whites have become a small minority.
“Frederick W. Kagan (American Enterprise Institute) and Kimberly Kagan …”
Daddy and daughter, I bet. And don’t forget Robert Kagan, and “Justice” Kagan as well. At this rate the whole “Establishment” should just change its name to “Kagan” already. Only the Jew has the chutzpah to promote “objectivity” and “neutrality” through nepotism writ large.
The Europeans are finally unshackled:
European Poll: Israel Biggest Threat To World Peace
Results of a new poll commissioned by the European Commission show that Israel is believed by Europeans in 15 countries to be the greatest threat to world peace, greater than North Korea, Iran or Afghanistan.
While the European Commission will release the full results of the poll on Monday, the International Herald Tribune reported that the 7,500 people polled living in the European Union (500 in each of the 15 E.U. member states) were presented with a list of 15 countries and asked if these countries present a threat to world peace. Shockingly, Israel was rated first.
This poll is an indication that Europeans have bought into the vilification and demonization campaign directed against the State of Israel and her supporters by European leaders and media.
The Simon Wiesenthal Center is voicing its outrage directly to European Commission President Romano Prodi and asks you to do the same.
“These shocking results, that Israel is the greatest threat to world peace, bigger than North Korea, Iran and Afghanistan, defies logic and is a racist flight of fancy that only shows that anti-Semitism is deeply embedded within European society, more now than in any other period since the end of World War II,” said Rabbi Marvin Hier, the Center’s dean and founder.
“If the results of this survey are as reported, then Israel should draw the only conclusion possible: that the European Union and its members should play no role in any future Middle East peace process,” Hier concluded.
Center officials are scheduled to meet with Javier Solana, Secretary General of the European Union, in November to discuss this and related issues.
@henry baxley: Come on, Henry. It’s been over 10 years, and you’re still not able to extract your head from your hind parts? Mike Delaney, 9-11 Missing Links video documentary, pal.
Geez, man. I am constantly amazed at the endless demonstrations of white gullibility and white stupidity.
Let’s not pretend the billions of Muslims across the world in North Africa, the ME and elsewhere gives a rat’s ass about White survival.
How often do Muslim leaders speak out in defense of Whites? How often do the praise nationalists for criticizing Jews? It has never happened, not *one* time, yet in pro-White circles we often see outbreaks of Muslim ball washing.
The ideal scenario from the standpoint of White interests would be for the twin beasts of Islam and Judaism to destroy each other.
Israel, the so-called neo-cons and organized Jewry are hubristically drunk with power, and despite their blunders, will continue to ride their “gentile” proxies [read milk herd ] right into the ground. MakikFireHornet is onto the consequences. It’s known as blow-back.
“The other day I saw Sean Hannity dismissing any threat from immigration because the culture will remain. Dream on.”
What’s with these dreamers, professor? Hannity and those like him must really think the people are exceptionally stupid.
White nations are the way they are because of White peoples!
Perhaps one of the greatest puzzles is how so regularly, intellectual pygmies, mental incompetents, and those burdened with severe emotional illnesses, manage to climb the ladder of “success” and gain platforms from which to spew their bile while being paid handsomely. If Bernard Lewis is indeed an expert in anything remotely academic, then I must indeed be King Tut reincarnated. Lewis needs his backside smacked in public, before being shown the door that leads straight to life in a tent in some park on the outskirts of L.A.
The Neocon’s Defeat in Iraq??? Not at all.. It’s not necessarily a defeat.. I agree with Niki Raapana. Jews want to set up a global technocracy, with them at the helm, as the ruling experts.. just few more steps towards Communitarianism..
You know?? – The Jews being “the light onto the nations.”
http://www.scribd.com/doc/9683923/Niki-Raapana-on-Communitarianism-
Dr. MacDonald, the war was a huge success in Iraq. Many White men were killed and disfigured. Our enemy is very happy.
@henry baxley
Of course Jews played a role in 9/11.. Don’t be such a noooob!!
@Anglo Saxon:
Secrets of success revealed:
Be born an only child or first child of well educated (rich) Jews with the emphasis on Jewish parents.
Who is Amitai Etzioni?? Another Jew that we need to keep our eyes on..
http://nikiraapana.blogspot.com/2008/10/who-is-amitai-etzioni.html
Amitai Etzioni on race..
http://theamericanscholar.org/leaving-race-behind/
I recommend people read up on Amitai Etzioni.. He is the face behind the ideology that is destroying America and Europe.. especially things written by Niki Raapana.. That’s the Agenda.. that’s where the Jews are taking (herding) us..
According to the New Yor Times the troops will be close by: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/30/world/middleeast/united-states-plans-post-iraq-troop-increase-in-persian-gulf.html?_r=3
Let’s not forget about the 5,000 to 15,000 security “contrators” we will be paying to keep in Iraq.
Who The Falk Is Amitai Etzioni?
http://www.rense.com/general86/nik.htm
For the ruling financial elites it is not a question of making even more money or even hanging on to what they have, these guys are trying to stay out of jail. Through their neo-con friends they own both parties, all the serious Republican candidates and the White House itself. They will go to any lengths to remain at large. Like the fictional Don Corleone, they are far from finished …
The Neo-cons so far have shown themselves to be men of limited intellects
well they got their wish and toppled the Hussien government. our borders remain open and no one even dare question our israel first policy – pretty good for dumb guys.
I don’t think they ever cared or believed democracy would ensue, I think, they thought, white people would care – so they sold a jewish interest objective as a universalist goal.. nothing new to Kevin MacDonald readers.
I do think they are concerned with making sure whatever form of government there is, that it is pro-Israel. that’s all that matters..
Whether by design or not – anti-Israel governments are falling right and left – Iraq, now libya, soon syria..
i don’t think they ‘planned’ it this way – but they are seizing whatever opportunity is in front of them and turning it into a pro israel movement – just like they tried to hijack the tea party.
@ Lew.
Karl Marx & friends think otherwise.
“The Jewish people as a whole will be its own Messiah. It will attain world domination by the dissolution of other races…and by the establishment of a world republic in which everywhere the Jews will exercise the privilege of citizenship. In this New World Order the Children of Israel…will furnish all the leaders without encountering opposition…” (Karl Marx in a letter to Baruch Levy, quoted in Review de Paris, June 1, 1928, p. 574)
Lets just consider what this all means to the individual labeled a “racist” by the community..
http://www.quebecoislibre.org/010901-13.htm
I remember a few years back I saw a story on a news about a guy from Pennsylvania who wanted to open up a club and was refused a liquor licensed by the “community..” The refusal was based on fact that he was “affiliated with racist groups..” He was previously the owner of a shop that sold “white power paraphernalia” (tea shirts, etc.)..
Normally, according to the Bill of Rights, the US Constitution, and all the principles on which this country was founded, his political views shouldn’t matter.. Not SO!! Not any more.. Communitarian law now triumphs! The community (led [herded] by Jews of course) decided that they didn’t want this guy in their community..
@Facio Libre:
Does this sound like OWS’ agenda to you yet?
http://www.quebecoislibre.org/010901-13.htm
Do you ever notice how the followers of a particular desert religion that spawned ethnofascism are virtually always @ the forefront of every western-based ‘tolerance’ racket ? While simultaneously defending Jew Only illegal settlements linked via Jew Only roads in the occupied West Bank. Does it really take the gift of a 3-digit IQ to be able to join up 2 dots and start calling these Judaic fraudsters out on their endless moralizing bullshyt ?
Marvin Hier obviously packs enough clout to request and be granted an audience with the Pope himself ! Next to whom Javier Solana is just a lowly bureaucrat.
and good for us. Chaos is our friend.
actually it isn’t . it’s the friend of the jews. Look at 1917 russia – the jews organized and seized power. we do best in stable homogeneous societies that is where inventors and creators thrive – when that society is threatened we can organize and defend it like no one else but the cultural marxists have been tearing at the fabric of our society(s) for close to 70 years…
Jews thrive on chaos – during WWII as remarked in Senator Dodd’s father’s diary – jews were going AHEAD of allied troops (really scared of germans, huh?) and buying up hard assets – same crap they pulled in the south until sherman banned them, at least temporarily – they love wild markets, fear, chaos, unstablilty .. that is why they literally become neurotic in small, tidy american towns.
a chaotic situation could easily lead to a more centralized bolshivik style government here.
@Luke: Come on Luke. You are stuck at the lowest level of “argument”. You are just calling someone names because they express doubt about a pet theory of yours. Here is a nice little list on argument we can learn from:
http://lesswrong.com/lw/85h/better_disagreement/
Robert Baer, former CIA intelligence analyst for 24 years on ME , told Eleanor Hall (The World Today) that the US-claimed ‘plot’ stinks and it would be better for Barack Obama to set back and open direct negotiation with Iranian leaders instead of being foolish to put more sanctions against Iran or military action of some sort. “The war with Iran will be uncontrollable,” he said…..
http://rehmat1.wordpress.com/2011/10/14/the-iranian-plot-please-dont-laugh/
@me:
Excellent point.
Kevin
Sean Hannity is either a liar or severely delusional. What we can say with 100 percent certainty is this:he is being paid 100 million dollars to commit race and ethnic treason.
Has White American culture survived in Miami,LA,Hempstead LI,NYC?
Now let us make the most ridiculous assumption that White American Culture does remain intact..suppose the Sihks replace White Southerners throughout the American South..they play and create bluegrass music and Appalachin mountain music, and they speak with a Southern accent. The culture survives.. but it is a Southern Culture without White Americans? Why should White Southerners be in favor of an American South without White Southerners? Of Course, this scenario has 0 probability of occuring. Replace every White Southerner with a Sihk from India and the American South becomes culturally Punjabi Sihk.
Hannity is ultimately a fool who will ultimatley find himself surrounded by a hostile and very foreign nonwhite majority…in fact, this is happenning at Target Rock National Wildlife Refuge in Llyod Neck down the beach from Hannity’s mega-mansion..only a few yards actually…Chinese speaking off-the-boat Chinese Nationals have taken over the beach in the back of his mansion where they throw their garbage all over the place…which also happens to be protected habitat for the very endangered pipipng plover. Pat Buchanan should have had this new book instead of the moratorium nonesense.
@Armor:
Paper shredders???? Those Iraqis must have some tough paper!!
Sean Hannity is either a liar or severely delusional.
…or would like to continue to collect a paycheck from fox news :)
@Trenchant: thank you sir!
On October 26, 2011, Israel-Firster Hillary Clinton gave interview to Bahman Kalbasi (Iranian gay Jew from Canada) of BBC Farsi-channel. During the interview Hillary repeated the usual Zionist lies about the Islamic Republic – From Green movement to Tehran’s civilian nuclear program.
During the interview, Hillary suggested that Iranian Opposition members should openly seek outside support as Libyan rebels did…..
http://rehmat1.wordpress.com/2011/10/31/irans-opposition-leaders-tell-hillary-to-get-lost/
@In an infinite universe, anything is possible. Jason Speaks:
@me: or, since this isn’t Russia we’re living in, but a country organized more like Weimer Germany, the outcome of Chaos in America could be a decisively anti-Jewish regime.
There is actually no such thing as multiculturalism. If you look at Los Angeles, where I was born and raised, you will see tiny Balkanized islands of varying ethnicities all clustered into their own ethnically homogeneous enclaves. They don’t leave these enclaves. Some Latinos have lived 20 years or more in these little Mexicos, never learning a single word of English. Even Asians break themselves down into varying neighborhoods by ethnicity and culture. Crossing turf lines is at best, lonely, at worst fatally dangerous.
Back when I was living in the San Fernando Valley, there was an active war going on over turf between Salvadoreans and Mexicans. You betcha these groups don’t mix. Not on the streets and not in prisons, where they make up the majority population these days.
Multiculturalism is a pipe dream.
but a country organized more like Weimer Germany
Weimer germany had 30-40% non white minorities? America has major pro American (anglo saxon) media outlets (there were plenty in 1920s america, or 1920s germany, but none here). But even that said, the Communists (jewish) came very close to taking over Bavaria in 1919… and i forgot to mention, our most martial ethnic group -the Scot-irish/southerners have largely embraced the heresy of Christian Zionism
@MajikFireHornet: I am hoping for the best – but I am just saying, we shouldn’t embrace the mindset that if total chaos ensues, somehow, magically, all our ducks will be in a row. The jewish elite heavily pushes for gun control -they have not succeeded in the US ..but .. they have elsewhere. I forgot his name but the israeli secret service agent who wrote the ‘tell all ‘ book confirmed what anyone with a brain has long suspected – the jewish community is well armed and has large stores of weapon caches all over the US (ESPECIALLY in gun restricted places like New York City) .
also remember the white russians, for example, had heavy support, arms and ultimately failed.
I don’t write this as doomsday prophecy but as warning to not see ‘worse is better’ as a savoir
Marxist-Neocons are killing two birds with one war. Bleed Middle-East but even more, bleed America and Europe.
War/Empire is destroying American families, American children, bankrupting us. More and more debt,
Jews are bleeding us with wars.
hmmm , call me an alternative pet theorist supporter , but , I really don’t think 911 was pulled off by angry A-rabs with box cutters . The officially promoted 911 theory is just too unbelievable .
I wonder if the official theory could be classified as a pet theory ? It certainly has a lot of pets .
@Jason Speaks: For an anti-semite, you are amusing!
@John hearns
Well, no shit. Are we allowed to say it yet, or is it still quasi-illegal? Back in the day, they were sending people to Gitmo for saying it, or sending them anthrax, remember?
@henry baxley: “Not saying the mossad did 9/11″
Z.O.G.
“Well, guess what. It did.”
Of that – assuming the collaboration of critical sections of the US State – there can be little doubt for any disinterested, observer.
@Abe Goldstein: Well most Ashkenazi (I assume in your case) have a good sense of humor – at least if they aren’t the angry variety. :)
@John hearns: Oh I don’t mind if people have “pet theories”, I would just rather they didn’t accuse those who disagree of being evil (or being part of the conspiracy! It’s funny how this secret conspiracy supposedly has tens of thousands of posters on the internet – some secret). Here is one thing I have never understood about the alternative theories about 911:
Wouldn’t it make more sense for Mossad to have provided deep behind the scenes support, rather than actually carry out the operation, planting explosives and such? In other words, why couldn’t Mossad have provided hidden support, to actual terrorists who had no idea who was helping them? Both the US and the Mossad run sting operations all the time. They get people far down a path and then arrest them.
It would seem more plausible that Mossad had helped these Arabs out behind the scenes, perhaps even instigated it, and got a bunch of patsies to carry it out – guys who never knew who they were really working for. This is the way an intelligent, well organized outfit would do it (and Mossad is nothing if not intelligent).
I am not saying I believe this version, but it seems more plausible than telling me all the engineers I know (who believe the official story) are either bought-and-paid for hacks or too psychologically intimated to buck the system.
@Jason Speaks:
Wouldn’t it make more sense for Mossad to have provided deep behind the scenes support, rather than actually carry out the operation, planting explosives and such?
There’s much that doesn’t make sense surrounding 911, JS. Hopefully , there will be a time when it is all revealed and the culprits are identified .
Independence from Criminal Israel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkp95ePFy5Y&feature=player_embedded
@John hearns:
Jesus Christ, man! Hundreds of people SAW the planes hit with their NAKED EYE! Passengers on the planes called relatives relaying what was happening in real time.
You and all those who think it was planned by the Jews or the CIA need to seek counselling for your extreme paranoia.
Or bring fourth POSITIVE EVIDENCE…not theories
BUILDINGS FALL! nothing strange about it. they are only designed to stand for a few hundred years at most, and that is if nothing bad happens..seek help before its too late for you. talk to someone (a friend, or even a total stranger in another city,) about why you need to see evil in everything and everyone but yourself. Your a brilliant man. use some of that brilliance to look inward.
Speaking of unbelieveable, have you ever heard of a Jew conspiring against their own…planning to kill their own?…being a suicide bomber? THAT my friend is what is UNBELIEVEABLE!
@henry baxley:
I apologise if my post is insulting..NOT my intention.. But we all have “blind spots” in what is otherwise perfect vision. I am sure I am no exception and I welcome having it pointed out.
…The middle got hot eneugh to melt the supporting beams allowing the top to fall…The bottom was not designed to withstand the top falling on it…simple. Hard to believe yes. but simple. Just like its hard to believe you can pour sulphuric acid into water, but you can’t pour water into sulphuric acid. :-)
@John hearns:
Soft aluminium fuselage that cuts through steel girders and concrete effortlessly. Like butter. I’m waiting for Boeing to patent their aluminium steel-piercing bullet. Move over DU!
@henry baxley:
No Arabs!
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7892004186194307613
Yes Sanjay, it is no more complicated than as you stated. It will probably take several doses of radioactive fall-out from the middle east before the nonesense stops.
The 9/11 truthers
You guys are insane..that’s all there is to it. It was very easy for 12 Muslim immigrants to pull off 9/11..they nearly pulled it off on Nov 7 1993 on a snowy day….just as easy as when the 19 year old German teenager flew a plane from Germany all the way to the Kremlin. Al Queda announded they were going to do it a yeare before it happenend on the national nightly news on CBS. No one bothered to pay attention. 9/11 happened is a massive indictment of post-1965 immigation policy. 9/11 happened because of the incredible stupidity and sloth of millions of Native Born White Americans.
Now here is a conspiracy I believe:Why are the celebrities of the 9/11 movement Jews? Answers:because the the 9/11 Jewish Truthers are race-replacement enthusiasts who want to take the spotlight off of post-1965 immigration policy. And Alex Jones is in fact married to a Jew.
The non-Jewish 9/11 truthers are just pathetic retards.
I see that Gary Null is pushing the 9/11 truther idiocy. He should have paid much more attention to his vitamin operation in NJ..if he did, he along with 12 of his customers would not have permanent kidney damage. What a fool.
Amir Oren wrote in Israeli daily Ha’aretz (June 1, 2011) that Obama’s selection of General Martin Dempsey as new Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff may turn out to be good news for Israel. Gen. Dempsey has good relations with Israel Occupation Force (IOF) senior officers. With Obama’s two other top national security advisers, Israel-Firsters Leon Panetta, the new secretary of defense and Gen. David Petraeus, the new head of CIA – ”the danger that Netanyahu and Barak will aim at a surorise in Iran is especially great, especially this would divert attention from the Palestinian issue,” wrote Amir Oren.
http://rehmat1.wordpress.com/2011/10/02/israel-dempsey-may-approve-attack-on-iran/
Lest we all forget Doc!
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Museum+panel+discusses+keep+Holocaust+stories+memories+alive+when+survivors+gone/5630611/story.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+canwest%2FF295+%28Ottawa+Citizen+-+News+%2F+Ottawa+%26+Area%29&utm_content=Google+Reader
Great essay, as usual, but this sentence seemed to have a word missing “The fact that intellectual basis for has been so firmly planted…”
@wattylersrevolt
You guys are insane..that’s all there is to it. It was very easy for 12 Muslim immigrants to pull off 9/11
You’re an idiot! Refrain from making statements of any kind in public.. Seriously! I’m putting you in the Jason Squeaks corner.. just another shill..
COMMENT ABOUT COMMITMENT
I can’t be the only one who reads this site who is developing a sixth sense when reading user comments whether that particular person intends to make any real commitment.
I can’t be the only one who reads person after person including many enthuisiastic regulars, who can see that this person has no serious personal commitment to anything more than writing ever more gorgeous posts restating the same things ever more fragrently.
I shouldn’t be so cynical about it I know. It is a contribution. But I ask you to look at Stephen Wolfram’s cellular automata and his claims that these things alone can explain the nature of reality. But they can’t, because all those cellular automata ever achievce is black writing on a white screen.
@henry baxley
You and all those who think it was planned by the Jews or the CIA need to seek counselling for your extreme paranoia.
9/11 is the litmus test.. You are a shill.;. Now you’re in the same category as Jason Squeaks and wattylersrevolt.. It’s either you’re a TOTAL idiot, or a shill, or a Crypto Jew.. and REALLY THAT’S ALL THERE IS TO IT!!
Why don’t you look up Architects and Engineers for 9/11 truth.. Over 20 Coincidences do not happen naturally.. open your eyes.. You got your head up your A$$..
Your position on 9/11 is the Litmus test ~ by Les Visible
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_afIXBaenVE
@Facio Libre:
I stand by my statement…one thing is sure, whatever you are, I’m NOT.
@Jason Speaks: You nailed it on the heritage. Shame I can’t convince you to be pro Israel, you seem to be so intelligent otherwise. You are certainly polite to those who disagree with you – but I have to say, 9/11 was an inside job (not the Mossad, though) and those engineers who you know should try and explain the thermite, because I can’t.
@Trenchant:
How does a soft lead bullet go through hard steel?………………
VELOCITY!
@Rich Pearson: Who was sent to Gitmo for putting forth “alternate” theories of 911?
@Abe Goldstein:
When heated sufficiently, aluminum and iron will chemically react (burn) Aluminum plus iron (steel) equals thermite.
If I remember my self taught chemistry right.
@Trenchant: So the airplane fuselage did not actually puncture the building? Are you saying we didn’t really see airplanes crash into the buildings?
It’s impossible to have a serious geo-political discussion with people who insist that two planes demolished three skyscrapers in Manhattan on 9/11.
It’s one thing to humor someone’s religious ideology. It’s quite another to suspend disbelief in the laws of physics. Those insisting on the official conspiracy theory are either dupes who never really bothered to think about it, or shills.
Sorry folks, buildings don’t demolish themselves. World Trade Center 7 wasn’t even hit by a plane, so even if you think that planes magically blow up buildings, figure that one out.
Again, there really is no debate.
@Rich Pearson: Who was sent to Gitmo for putting forth “alternate” theories of 911?
9/11, to all;
What difference does it make who did 9/11???
I am sorry so many people died. But I was glad to see the Jew’s financial center destroyed.
I am sure there were Questions about Hiroshima for years after the fact, but whatever the answers, all those people are still dead
@Jason Speaks, that was a joke. But Susan Lindauer was sent to prison for at least a year for not keeping her mouth shut about it. That’s not a joke.
So, are you one of the “two planes, three buildings” conspiracy theorists? Of course you are.
The topic of the article is the defeat of the neocons of the Bush administration. Neocons” pretty much means the Jews that used 9/11 to hype of a threat about “worldwide jihad” (and evidently, super planes that blow up skyscrapers hours after impact) and sent America off to world wide war against Israel’s unfriendly neighbors.
The neocon foreign policy is laughed at by nearly everyone since at least 2005, and the 9/11 conspiracy theory hasn’t held up very well either. They are, of course, related.
As I mentioned previously, Jason, I’m not sure how seriously I’m supposed to take you. Your sensitivity about some really obvious things precludes it. You’re obviously a smart guy, so who are you trying to kid here?
Hey Jason, what do you think about the Persians? Were they perhaps behind 9/11 as well? Some neocons have said as much.
Edit; I was glad to see the BUILDINGS destroyed, Killing is against my religion except in defense of self or family..or of course, some helpless innocent child for instance.
henry baxley says
Really? Maybe you aren’t an American or something.
It’s the major event of the 21st century, for America and the world, and it’s the cause belli of the current wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, and Libya. You’re saying “who cares who did it?” Are you joking?
I’ve read that 20% of Americans know or are related to someone who knows a victim of 9/11. Consider how many have been killed in the 9/11 wars that followed.
For years the 9/11 propaganda worked to rally support for wars in the Middle East, and when that didn’t work anymore, they expected everyone to just forget about it.
What an odd combination of hubris and chutzpah. These “neocons” should be in prison.
@Rich Pearson: I suspect that if there were hidden agents behind 911, they would have acted in a way that kept their fingerprints off it as much as possible, which means as little physical evidence of their involvement as possible. Why wouldn’t it be done that way? We have seen several sting operations run by intelligence agencies to catch people over the years. This would be the best way to do it.
Now the tone of 911 theorists has no bearing on the validity of their theories, but it probably does affect how they are received by the public. They are a fairly belligerent and anti-American group (I am not including you). They are too eager to demonize the US government and CIA in a way consistent with anti-American Leftists. Going back to the 60s there has been a certain kind of Leftist critique that focuses on America and its people as the source of all evil in the world.
In other words, they seldom come off as sincere patriots. They seldom, if ever, express compassion for the people that died that day. There is always a smirk behind their accusations, as if they enjoy pointing out how evil the US system is (and by implications its people).
In fact, I would say most 911 theorists are eager to accuse Americans of character flaws. They seem joyful to point out how evil we Americans really are, and how complicit we are in the world’s evil. Now granted, this may be a reaction to being scoffed at by so many, but among the hardcore element, this preoccupation with the evil of America seems to have been preexisting.
As far as Susan Lindauer is concerned, let me know when they lock up Alex Jones who has made millions off this issue. I may not care for him, but it is his right to speak freely.
@henry baxley:
Sorry, lead bullets don’t penetrate steel. Velocity doesn’t change the relative hardness. Tungsten-tips are required, a harder material.
@Jason Speaks: Sorry, I meant to say:
They do not come off as sincere patriots.
@Jason Speaks:
No passenger planes, just a bit of digital trickery and live editing.
@Jason Speaks:
Alex Jones is married to the Tribe, and part of the controlled opposition.
@Jason Speaks:
Come on, Jason Speaks, you’re kidding right? Jason Speaks wants us to go down the rabbit hole offering this theory or that, instead of facing the obvious, transparent facts. Then tell us his fanciful theories are wrong. Well, of course.
The previous post should say “quite another to suspend disbelief about the official story of 9/11 and ignore the laws of physics.
http://www.youtube.com/user/ae911truth
It doesn’t take a rocket scientist or a brain surgeon to know that office fires don’t cause buildings to collapse – demolitions do. This one is not very hard to figure out.
Let’s remember that outside of the United States these facts are taken for granted; in Europe, Japan, China, etc. In America, 9/11 is a taboo topic, like race or religion. The pre-WWII WASP elite were hostile to fundamentalist religious dogma, but perhaps had a weakness for pseudo-religious secular narratives such as those about 9/11 or Vietnam, or world democracy and capitalism.
Yup , the official two planes three buildings conspiracy theory just does not hold up .
When a major world political event occurs , then , the first question the should be asked is : “who benefited ? ”
It was not the A-rabs .
@Trenchant: There were no passenger planes involved in 911? None of the footage we saw of passenger planes flying into the buildings is real? When you say “passenger” plane, are you saying some other planes were flown into the towers, or do you mean no planes at all of any kind?
Were all the feeds of CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox and any other local stations all using the same feed? I thought there were multiple feeds? Were they all being simultaneously manipulated? It seems impossible.
What about the eye witnesses that said they saw the planes?
@Jason Speaks:
Jason Speaks expects to be taken seriously here, remember. Jason, are you an eyewitness? What did you see? Tell us what *you* “believe” – don’t go arguing with various conspiracy theories you accuse others of believing.
Tell us, Jason Speaks – what demolished World Trade Center 7? Surely you aren’t claiming some phantom, magical plane hit World Trade Center 7 and caused its demolition? Are you? Is this some Kabbalah magic or something?
We’re all really interested in your answer.
@Rich Pearson: I was not in NYC when 911 happened, so I was not a personal eye witness to the event. What did I see? I saw the same thing on TV that every one saw. What I am asking for is clarification from Trenchant or whoever – are you claiming that there were never any planes that flew into the buildings?
@Jason Speaks:
The few eyewitnesses that swear on the passenger plane just so happen to work for the networks. Other witness accounts differ wildly, from no-planes, just bomb, to small plane or object.
The networks shared feed for the “live” footage of the “impacts”. The rest is just managing the story. Excluding those who don’t fit the narrative, and passing the microphone to the stooges. Here’s a taste:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=uJcdJZfJN0Y oops!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07hJhmiWZSY that’s better.
@Jason Speaks:
If M☻$$@Ð involvement is what interests you, the chimeric Naudet brothers, Jules and Gédéon, are a good start.
@Trenchant: Just to make sure I am clear, when you say this statement:
No passenger planes, just a bit of digital trickery and live editing.
Are you saying the planes – whether passenger or not – never existed in the first place? Are you saying that what we thought we saw on live TV was a computer generated hoax?
@Rich Pearson: Oh, come on now Rich, you don’t believe a 47 story building like Building #7 can just fall down all on its own without a thing touching it? It happens everyday, what’s wrong with you?
@henry baxley @Abe Goldstein @Jason Speaks @wattylersrevolt
I am now convinced that these are all ingenious disinfo agents loyal to Israel.
There is no credible explanation for the collapse of WTC Building 7, which was not hit by any aircraft on 9/11, except for the ignition of pre-planted thermite demolition charges.
Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth and physicist Steven Jones are highly credible sources of 9/11 investigation and analysis.
Dr. Faust
@Jason Speaks:
Yes. MSM is an integral part of this op. (That is, owners, certain key journalists and anchors, the number of insiders is likely quite modest)
Aside from federal plants and the Hasbarristi whose job is to pop up on designated virtual resources and slip in propaganda turds, anybody else still peddling the official Aladdin And His Wonderful Lamp 9-11 fairytale must donate their clearly useless brains to science now. As you people are dumber than a crate of dumbbells.
@Trenchant: OK, I understand the assertion that MSM is a part of the op, but were there never any planes at all that flew into the buildings? I know I am belaboring the point but I am trying to flesh out the theory. Can you definitively state what your position is on the video images on TV of planes flying into buildings?
Specifically, were there any planes at all, or was it all computer generated? Were there absolutely no planes involved? And then just a followup, what about the supposed passengers on the plane and their families that claim they are now dead? Thanks
I recommend The New Hiroshima video presentation to those of an open mind (Google it). It changed the way I view 9/11. Previously I’d not thought sufficiently about the debris.
@Jarvis Dingle-Daden: Can you summarize briefly what the current alternate theory of 911 is? I don’t mean a general assertion like “evil Americans did it”, but just a brief few specific sentences about what was faked?
I ask because it seems like the alternate theories have changed over time. I have heard that the planes were real but remote controlled, I have heard that the planes were actually military planes of some kind. Then I heard that the planes do not exist at all, never did, but were computer generated TV illusions.
I have heard that the phone calls made by people on board were faked by government agents. But then I have also heard that the 911 families were all liars that never got phone calls and were bought off for money to accept the death of their family members (that assertion was made by a poster repeatedly here on TOO).
Then a few years ago Rosie O’Donnell championed the theories revolving around Building 7 – the focus of the alternate theories seemed to shift to that. So, can you kindly give a brief synopsis of what the state of the art theory is on what actually happened?
Or, is it simply that you don’t know at all what really happened, but you don’t believe the generally accepted version. If you aren’t asserting that you know what happened, but simply don’t believe the “official story”, that is fine. Thanks
@Jason Speaks:
No planes. Ergo no passengers.
@Jason Speaks:
The official story had legs and moved all over the place, too. Cheney and Bush had to testify together (story coordination issues) and not under oath!
@Trenchant: I have the video New Hiroshima going now. I see her website, but I am not sure if she is claiming 911 was really mini-nukes or a new form of free energy weapon that the pentagon was testing. I guess it will be clarified in the video.
No planes seems like an especially strong claim. If true, wouldn’t you have to account for several hundred people who were supposed to be on them?
@Jason Speaks:
Like the victims who died in the gas chambers, you mean?
@Trenchant: I’m just trying to get clear on the claim. So, you are saying there were no passengers on the planes, that is a total fabrication, since there were no planes in the first place. OK.
I thought there were records of actual people who are supposed to have been on the plane. Do you think these people were totally made up? Or did they exist but have no been given new identities? Any thoughts about the people that claim to have gotten calls from family members? Were these family members lying, or do you suspect that these families don’t really exist either, and are really Hollywood actors?
@Trenchant: There are published lists of the passengers on all four planes. Wouldn’t it be fruitful to find, say, 20 people on flight 77 and show that they either never existed? There are fairly detailed biographies of all of them, including place of employment, education and the city they live in.
For example, one lady who supposedly existed had a Phd from UCLA, worked for AmGen and had a hour year old daughter. It seems like after ten years, skeptics could have proven she never existed. Now, I do in fact find forum postings where people claim that literally all the approximately 266 passengers are all made up, but I never see anything remotely convincing – just assertions.
I did see a post on Rense from 6 years ago saying there was a rumor Ted Olson’s wife had been spotted on German-Polish border. Apparently that didn’t pan out.
@Dr. Faust:
There are people who know what happened, and people who don’t know what happened….
By definition the conspiracy theorists DON’T know what happened, they simply don’t believe the official version
Oh and as for building 7 It was indeed a controlled demolition. by the FIRE DEPARTMENT. In order to prevent the fire from spreading to nearby buildings, they ordered it destroyed because they were spread too thin at that point to controll it.
@Jason Speaks:
Strange coincidences of 9/11;
A someone reported a dead pigion THREE MILES AWAY!…how did a falling building kill a bird three miles away????????????
My microwave stopped working exactly 7 minutes and 7 seconds after the collapse of building 7 and I was microwaving SEVEN HOT_DOGS!!!!!!
A black guy was seen running from the scene with an electronic device protruding out of the place just above where his pants should be….WHY?????????????
Just prior to the first impact, a suspicious looking character with a beannie cap on his head was taking pictures of the building….very strange!
A dog barked in the Bronx!……
Are these and many other strange and erie happenings all just coincidents??? or is something more sinister at work???
Something DIABOLICAL!?….stay tuned for the SHOCKING answer!!!!!!!!!!!
@Jason Speaks:
Do you know any of the “victims” personally? Can you prove they died? What are their Social Security numbers, and so on? Where are the parts (upward of 3 million per plane, all with serial numbers) belonging to these mysterious steel-penetrating aluminium planes?
@Trenchant: Did I know any of the passenger victims, personally? No, I must admit I did not. Nor can I personally prove they died – I was not physically there when the planes crashed (so-called planes). Of course, I never met Obama personally either. Nor have I seen the continent of Africa, but I am rather persuaded that both Obama and Africa exist.
So, I guess among several of the posters here, this sounds plausible: Everything we saw on TV on 911 was totally faked. It was some kind of computer generated illusion that planes hit the towers. The buildings were actually destroyed by a new type of free energy weapon. All the claims of passengers dying or even existing are totally fake. All the people claiming they had loved ones die on the planes are actors … or computer animated characters. It was all Pixar.
Yet, for someone to speculate that maybe Mossad helped choreograph an actual attack, giving behind the scenes support, using patsies, well that makes one a shill and a dope for the NWO.
Oh and as for building 7 It was indeed a controlled demolition. by the FIRE DEPARTMENT. In order to prevent the fire from spreading to nearby buildings, they ordered it destroyed because they were spread too thin at that point to controll it.
Umm ,
that’s very much not plausible , to say the least .
JS ,
If the official 911 version was that the WTC buildings danced the lambada and then shook themselves to pieces then I would seriously question that version too , would you ?
LOL
The Holocaust pushers in Canada aught to take notice.
http://www.onejerusalem.com/2008/03/12/german-youth-suffering-holocaust-fatigue/
@Jason Speaks:
If you saw Obama walking on water on TV, defying physical laws, would you believe you eyes?
@Jason Speaks:
You’re taking liberties with my position. I don’t say everything we saw on TV was totally false at all. This violates Occam’s Razor. All that is necessary is that the passenger planes be added to the films, and the story be sustained by media bombardment. Half a minute of fakery.
Such fakery is technically possible (http://goo.gl/8KXMG), it just hangs on volition. Whether the owners of the MSM are really on board with PNAC, Patriot Act and the big picture.
@Rich Pearson:
OK suppose the Jews did it. What does that mean? that the jews are evil? Suppose the arabs did it, does that mean the Arabs are evil? Either way it doesn’t bring back those who died.
Let it go.
@Jason Speaks:
Some of these folks have watched “The Truman Show” waayy to many times!
Jason Speaks/henry baxley/Abe Goldstein/wattylersrevolt are interested in managing the TOO community–keeping the site safe for organized Jewry to use as an argument for Jewish solidarity and as a pretext for extending control over free public discourse.
I remain undecided regarding Trenchant. He or she may be genuinely convinced of implausible 9/11 scenarios (such as the idea that no planes hit WTC1 and WTC2). Or he or she may well be part of the above disinfo operation and be playing the role of easily-discredited-conspiracy theorist–a foil to the JS/HB/AG/WR scripted roles of reasonable-and-oh-so-patient-skeptics.
There are not many sites as potentially revolutionary as TOO and it is predictable that the Jewish establishment would assign resources to manage it.
For those of you who remain open to the idea that organized Jewry and the military-media-finance-industrial complex that they dominate are fully capable of sacrificing a few thousand Americans to maintain their ascendancy, I suggest you start your own investigations with the websites below.
Scholars for 911 Truth and Justice
WTC7.net
Architects and Engineers for 911 Truth
– Dr. Faust
@Dr. Faust:
A good collection of facts and ideas about 9/11 is: how 9/11 was done.com, which also gives a plausible reconstruction.People who still defend the official conspiracy theory are either ignorant and stupid OR try to protect the real culprits.Since we can savely assume that this website of TOO doesn’t attract ignorant and stupid people, those who do defend the official theory make themselves highly suspect…
@Trenchant: But saying the planes themselves were fake, that they didn’t exist, that they were some kind of generated hoax, is of course, a very big deal. It requires compliance from all media heads of all major (and semi-major) media corporations. You seem to say it is no big deal to do this and to cover it up and keep it hidden for 10 years. But It I think it would be a very big deal.
It requires the creation of almost 300 fake people too, with 300 fake biographies of where they worked, lived, went to school. I would think this creates a lot of opportunities for people to come forward and say, “this person never worked at our company”.
@Dr. Faust: Jason Speaks/henry baxley/Abe Goldstein/wattylersrevolt are interested in managing the TOO community–keeping the site safe for organized Jewry to use as an argument for Jewish solidarity and as a pretext for extending control over free public discourse.
Does that sentence make any sense? Notice the hair-trigger condemnation of anyone that even seeks clarification of what the alternative theory is? This constitutes “managing” TOO? Someone saying, “well this part seems implausible, can you explain more”, is what you consider withering criticism?
@Franklin Ryckaert: OK, but so do you believe the passenger planes didn’t exist at all? That 300 biographies are all fake, and that the families that claimed they got phone calls were all paid actors? If so, fine, I am just trying to figure out what you guys believe.
@Franklin Ryckaert: So is my saying that maybe Mossad manipulated dupes behind the scenes on 911 mean that that I am a shill for the “ZioCons”? Just trying to understand the prevailing logic here.
@henry baxley: Funny stuff. Well, I must admit, I have always been open to revision on the holocaust, and I still suspect the numbers are wildly exaggerated, but things like this make me think I’ve been gullible on the other side. When I see the “reasoning” that is used to promote some of these theories, and how strident they are in condemning anyone who even asks for clarification, it make me think a lot of revisionist history has to be examined very carefully.
@Trenchant: If you saw Obama walking on water on TV, defying physical laws, would you believe you eyes?
Yes, if I saw the buildings td a Mexican dance ,or do cartwheels, or smile and wave at the camera, I would be suspicious. But nothing that glaring took place, so that someone glancing at the TV would say “oh yeah that is all fake”.
After all, it wouldn’t be much of a conspiracy if it was so obviously false on an immediate perceptual level – so obvious that is required no reflection or analysis – that glancing at the TV would prove it false. It wasn’t quite like Coyote running over a ledge and hanging suspended in space.
The US government has used false flag operations before. Gulf of Tonkin and the USS Liberty. Even Pearl Harbor. Why not 9/11 too?
@bob johnson: Yeah, that is fine, but it is just a starting point. I mean, police have framed people too, but I don’t assume that every single arrest is actually a frame-up. I’m open to the possibility and would look at any evidence. But how can you say, “well the cops have lied before, so they could be lying now, so … therefore, they are lying now, end of discussion.”
We already know that such things are possible in general, just trying to understand what happened here. A general distrust of American government is not sufficient to prove anything.
@henry baxley: I’m not sure that Rich thinks the Jews did 911. I think he thinks more specifically that is was US government, without respect to race. It’s hard to be sure because these guys don’t like to outline what they actually believe
@Jason Speaks:
Gerard Holmgren (deceased) wrote a very logical article on why of all the various scenarios, no-planes offers the fewest risks for the planners. http://www.911closeup.com/
And if the only problem you have with the gas-chamber story is the dancing numbers, then you’ll probably never get the chutzpah aspect to 9/11.
Orson Welles did quite a job on the public many, many years ago with his radio-broadcast of Martian invasion. The lesson wasn’t lost on our overlords.
The fakery and psy-op nature of 9/11 was sophisticated enough for a critical mass of people to accept the proffered version.
@Trenchant: Yes, Orson Welles did do a fake broadcast. And the Monkees were not a real band, so we have to be skeptical. But on the other hand, the Beatles were real and the Hindenburg really did explode.
Now, if you are saying the projection of fake planes and the creation of fake biographies and fake families claiming they had phone calls is at least sophisticated, along with faked accounts by air traffic controllers, well OK, it’s a starting point. My point is that it wasn’t so totally obvious that a glance at the TV screen showed it.
A good tract for believers would be to offer $100,000 to anyone that can prove that, say, ten of these passengers ever existed. If no one comes forward with definitive prove, then you have something. All I can find on the internet are random forum posts.
@henry baxley: Mr baxley, I will look that up. It is the best defense I have seen if true. You seem to be smarter than most around here, shame you are also an anti-semite, but I’m sure we would otherwise get along!
@Trenchant: A big part of your theory is the assertion that aluminum planes can’t penetrate steel buildings. I am trying to research from a physics and engineering standpoint.
But are we to believe the planes would just bounce off? Would the building be undamaged? I do articles on the plane that struck the Empire State Bldg:
the ten-ton, B-25 bomber smashed into the north side of the Empire State Building. The majority of the plane hit the 79th floor, creating a hole in the building eighteen feet wide and twenty feet high. The plane’s high-octane fuel exploded, hurtling flames down the side of the building and inside through hallways and stairwells all the way down to the 75th floor.
Also this:
One of the engines and part of the landing gear hurtled across the 79th floor, through wall partitions and two fire walls, and out the south wall’s windows to fall onto a twelve-story building across 33rd Street. The other engine flew into an elevator shaft and landed on an elevator car.
That was a prop driven B-25. They weight around 10 tons and had a cruise speed of 230 mph … it was probably going slower than that. And yet it does seem to have created a hole and parts of the plane entered the building from what I can tell.
The 767 that hit one of the towers weighed 200 tons and was moving at 590 mph. It seems like this would made a much greater impact than the B-25.
Mr baxley was right!
“Thermite is a chemical compound that consists of a reactive metal and a metal oxide, usually both in a powdered state, mixed together. The type of metals used can vary, though the most common combination consists of aluminum as the reactive metal and iron oxide, also known as rust. These two metals are ground down into a powder or shavings and then mixed together, at which point they are still relatively safe to handle as long as the mixture is not exposed to high temperatures. Thermite produces an intense exothermic reaction, not an inherently explosive reaction, once a proper ignition source is applied.
While different metals can be used to create thermite, the typical combination used is aluminum and iron oxide. The aluminum is used because it is a reactive metal with a very high boiling point and a low melting point. Aluminum’s high boiling point is important because the maximum temperature reached during a thermite reaction — the process of the composition burning — is typically limited by the boiling point of the reactive metal used, while the low melting point allows the reaction to occur once the aluminum is in a liquid phase. Since aluminum is also quite inexpensive, it is ideal for commercial and industrial purposes. Iron oxide is also an affordable metallic oxide to use, though other metals such as chromium and copper can be used as well”
So airplane aluminum and building structure iron, with heat applied – that was the only thing about the Engineers and Architects for 9/11 Truth that I thought made a case. So, now I believe the official story.
I offically take the side of Jason Speaks!
@Jason Speaks:
590 mph at sea-level! You’ve got quite a bit of research ahead of you.
But here’s my challenge to you and your official theory believers – show me one part, just one, with a serial number and a service log for that part.
@Dr. Faust: Actually, the explanation for the thermite provided by the smart but unfortunately anti semitic Henry Baxley shows the Engineers and Architects for 9/11 Truth to be a bunch of losers. I watched the whole thing and they either deliberately lied about the process of how thermite occurs, or they are too incompetent to be credible about the issue if they don’t realize how thermite occurs. Either way, I am very disappointed in them.
@Trenchant: Why is 590 mph at seal level such a problem? And yes I do have a lot of research, because people on your side NEVER do any. You just poke around long enough to see something that can be questions, and you STOP looking anymore.
And again, I haven’t said I believe the “official” story in its entirety, but your theory of computer generated illusionary planes, fake passengers and fake family members remains totally unproven. You aren’t even trying to prove any of it.
@Abe Goldstein:
Iron is not a construction material. It’s steel.
@Jason Speaks:
Proving something non-existent, now how would one go about that? Can you prove pixies don’t exist? No? So they exist!
Passenger planes reach those speeds at high altitude. Not at sea level with far greater air density.
What worries you about the “official” conspiracy theory, maybe I can help?
@Trenchant: You aren’t being asked to prove something that doesn’t exist. The projection of fake footage on live TV, fake passengers, fake family members, fake witnesses – all these things would leave a trail of some kind.
@Jason Speaks: Hannity is not dumb. He knows which way the wind blows. He pretends to oppose folks like Buchanan and Jim Traficant while giving them a platform. He knows that he would be out of a job faster than an Oklahoma twister if he would not play the game right.
He is a prostitute, but not as dumb as Limbaugh or Bill O”Reilly.
@Jason Speaks:
What- the non-existent relatives of non-existent passengers would be recognized as a sham?
But back to you, where are your specific doubts about the official version?
@Trenchant: I can’t find anything that indicates a 767 moving fast, weight 400,000 lbs and full of fuel would bounce off a building.
I keep finding the points you raise on sites like “above top secrets” and other non-serious sites. Are you even serious about this 911 claim, or are you just having fun?
@Trenchant: I don’t have any particular doubts about 911 (in the sense that it didn’t really happen, or the planes were not real), but I’m open to the idea that there was manipulation behind the scenes by Mossad or other agents, because such a thing is plausible. Meaning, providing logistical and financial support behind the scenes, unknown to the actual terrorists. I have no evidence that this is true, however.
So, Jason Speaks, are you claiming that an airplane hit World Trade Center 7, or not? What demolished World Trade Center 7?
As far as I know, only the far-out crazy Conspiracy Theorists say some Magic Plane hit World Trade Center 7.
Are you a Magic Plane Theorist?
Tell us – we’re all anxious to know.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zv7BImVvEyk
I can’t find anything that indicates a 767 moving fast, weight 400,000 lbs and full of fuel would bounce off a building.
the aircraft would splat like a beer can and burn suprficially damgeing the building , except that the engines might pierce two engine sized holes .
400000 lbs ( not tons ) is like an aluminum flea to the two of the largest steel and concrete buildings ever built .
And if an engineer tells you differently then he is a clown enigineer.
@John hearns: So you don’t believe the planes existed either. They were computer generated images in your opinion.
@Rich Pearson: So Rich Pearson believes the airplanes didn’t exist either. They were computer generated phantoms in your opinion. No planes and no passengers in your view.
This video of Tower 7 is not convincing of anything, but I’ll look into the claims on it as well. Given the effect of two giant buildings falling to the ground, I am not shocked that it could do damage to surrounding structures. Gee, I wonder if this will turn out to be another rabbit hole?
I get the impression some of you guys think you are striking a blow against “The Evil White American” by promoting these theories.
767′s can not move at top speed at lower attitudes . They would be extremely unstable and possibly break up in the dense air . They can not be pin pointed at buildings at anywhere near top speeds .
So “moving fast” must be qualified as being relatively not fast at all . But , that’s just one of the small details of very many details that does not add in up in the official version conspiracy , to those who are counting .
@Jason Speaks:
@John hearns: So you don’t believe the planes existed either. They were computer generated images in your opinion.
I have given the ” no planer” theory some reading and some thought . I find the no planer angle about one hundred times more credible than the official version theory . But , I simply don’t know .
I do know that I find the official version to be laughable if it were not so tragic , important and real in that so many have some how swallowed it .
@John hearns:
I do know that is staggering as to ho few pitures there are of the planes and that the few films are all the same . from different angles . New york had gawd knows how many people with cell phone cameras at that time . You’d think there might be just a few more pics .
It’s a lot like the pentagon not any good pics of the plane . Possibly the most video surveilanced place on earth and no pics , whoops .
@Jason Speaks:
How’d you go with the Naudet brothers? Did you find out where they now live, and how their film career is going after such a spectacular debut? Maybe they are the sort of serious interlocutors you are earnestly seeking in your quest to understand the 9/11 rebus.
@Jason Speaks:
You know JS ,
Most people who buy in to the official version can be written off as being average joe morons who do not care or will not care because they more concerned with the big game or reality tv or what ever .
But , you do not get that pass . You have made yourself very questionable .
@Trenchant: I will chase down this rabbit hole in a bit. One set of sites seems to use them to prove the planes were under some kind of remote control and prove the Bush “junta” of Evil White Men™ hijacked the hijackers to do the job right. Yet a another batch of conspiracy sites seems to suggest that these brothers were actually part of the 911 “scam” and proof of conspiracy from another direction.
@Jason Speaks:
The Israeli spies-shadowing-Arabs is a limited hang-out. Fox News’ scoop by Carl Cameron and Christopher Ketcham’s Counterpunch article Cheering Movers and Art Student Spies is a gravy-bone for the public to gnaw happily away on whilst missing out on the prime fillet.
Sure, how outrageous that the country is awash with spies, but relax, they were guardian angels, shadowing the “real” bad guys. It’s still meshes with the official story.
@John hearns: I’ll just have to live with being “questionable” in your eyes. Trust me, you are questionable in mine. I’ve already disproven some of your JFK conspiracies, including that doctored YouTube video that made it sound like he was warning us of “secret societies”. Yet you never change your approach. Why are wasting your time with nothing more than urban legends, when you have an entire site here of real information to look at?
Read MacDonald’s material on Jewish influence, not Kindergarten level folk tales on some silly website. Spend $30 and join TOQ and get access to actual, real, scientific data.
@Jason Speaks:
I dare say you didn’t read the Gerard Holmgren article I stuck up earlier – Why they didn’t use planes. He does a succinct cost/benefit analysis of remote-controlled planes with and without passengers, real planes hijacked, and no planes whatsover.
The problems of no-planes – are more tractable than the technical and logistic problems of real planes.
For most people, the thought of media complicity in 9/11 (not just obsequiousness to the administration) is just too much to broach, so the ruse can be successful.
@Trenchant: One of the first claims that Gerard Holmgren makes is that there were no Arab names on the passenger list, therefore, this proves that there were no Arab hijackers. But he is relying on a CNN webpage that did not list the hijackers because the list was just of of the innocent dead, not a complete manifest. The hijackers were left off specifically because the webpage was honoring the innocent who died.
He also includes rumors of the Arab hijackers being spotted alive by various people – these were unsubstantiated reports many years ago that have never panned out. Think Elvis sightings.
Don’t you find his site a collection of urban legends and half-truths? How can you adhere to the ruthless logic of the Austrian school of economics, yet give this material the same standing? None of this is up to the economic material you talk about. Surely, you must look at the other side of the issue when considering these claims. A simple google search disspells most of them immediately.
@Jason Speaks:
@John hearns: I’ll just have to live with being “questionable” in your eyes. Trust me, you are questionable in mine. I’ve already disproven some of your JFK conspiracies, including that doctored YouTube video that made it sound like he was warning us of “secret societies”. Yet you never change your approach. Why are wasting your time with nothing more than urban legends, when you have an entire site here of real information to look at?
Actually , I did look at the JFK info and I agree that it was a hoax video . Although , despite the fact that the video was fake , I really do think that JFK was stepping some powerful kosher toes that got him assassinated , the same” toes” that pulled of 911 . Bullets are not magic , but videos can be faked .
I am looking for the truth and I am not closed minded to anyone who can prove me right or wrong . If I am wrong then I will stand corrected as I am with the JFK youtube video .
Can you say the same ?
Jason Speaks posted this:
Read it twice, three times. Ask yourself – who is he trying to kid here?
“This video of Tower 7 is not convincing of anything”
What happened to World Trade Center Building 7, Jason Speaks? Tell us?
“I’ll look into the claims on it as well.”
OK get back to us, Jason Speaks.
“Given the effect of two giant buildings falling to the ground, I am not shocked that it could do damage to surrounding structures. ”
Are you suggesting that World Trade Center 1 and 2 somehow magically floated two blocks away and caused World Trade Center 7 to collapse?
Really – Jason Speaks – how seriously are we supposed to take you? Is this more of your “Kaballah Magic?”
On the day of 911 the military was engaged in a large scale mock up excercise of a terrorist attack on new york city .
Is this true ? Research that , will you JS ? and get back to me .
That would explain the stand down of the air force . And what a coincidence that would be .
Bridge for sale .
I have read that there was a mock up drill of a terrorist attack on the day of the subway bombings in London as well . Is that true JS ? Do you want to look in to that one ? I mean if you care to ? If it is true , do you see a pattern there ?
@Jason Speaks:
Austrian economics is the only economic framework that makes sense and whose structure is built on sound epistemology, in my opinion.
The Holmgren article I referred you to had nothing about Arabs on the flight manifest. Maybe it’s another article you’re discussing?
@Rich Pearson: Rich, would you drop the personal insult routine? Why is it that virtually all 911 theorists end up personally attacking people that disagree with them? This is not a p*ssing contest. Why is there always a smirk behind most of you guys, as if you are eager to prove you live in world of Evil White Men™?
You guys are bombarding me with tons of silly rabbit holes that go nowhere. Sorry if I can’t disprove all of them in a manner you find timely. Why don’t you exercise some gumption and at least view some of the sites that disprove these claims? Does that step on your Evil White Men™ theory too much?
@Trenchant: The main article on that site, under the name you mentioned, does not really make one single claim in favor of a “no planes” theory that I can find. Please point it out. He mainly talks about why other approaches using planes would be problematic.
I see him arguing that “they” would not want to use remote control or hijack the hijackers, because there would be too many things that could go wrong. That is just a general discussion of why this theory is more plausible in his mind, but that’s it.
He talks about how dangerous it would be to use real planes (if it was an inside job) since there could be tons of evidence that came to light causing problems. What is this supposed to prove? Maybe I missed it, tell me which paragraph.
This article is in no way on the level of Austrian economics. Granted, very little is, but doesn’t this epistemology strike you as a bit shaky?
I think that people insult you JS because they are convinced that you have a covert agenda since you could not possibly truly believe the official 911 version .
I have read you enough to think that you are just very misguided , but I don’t know why .
@Jason Speaks:
What about Mr. Atta’s suicide note left in his suitcase? Does that sound like the evil genius that pulled off Pearl Harbour #2? I find it rather quaint that this devil included a reminder note to himself – “don’t forget the box-cutter!”.
Do you believe this particular detail?
@John hearns: “The people” do not insult me. Only a small band of regulars who also insult everyone else. Honest to God, how many times does it have to be shown to you that you are wrong on something before you at least revise your approach?
Look, if what you guys want is to sit around and feel like you are playing Dungeons and Dragons, and uncovering some deep dark conspiracy that no one else sees, then this site has failed its mission.
By the way, go join TOQ, its only $30 and it gives money to a good cause. You do the same Rich.
@Trenchant: Can we stay on the original issue before moving on to Atta’s note? Where in that article does he demonstrate that the planes on 911 were imaginary hoaxes? I just see him saying that this approach would work better than trying to remote control planes or hijack hijackers.
Just quickly on the note, does it strike you as odd that people have checklists? Pilots use them all the time, with items like “put gear down” all the time, even though that should be quite obvious to pilot. Surgeons increasingly use checklists. And yes, I really do think that military operations make use of checklists that get down to pretty mundane stuff.
@Trenchant: And what if the suicide note had been more to whatever seems normal in your book? Wouldn’t you just say that it was too convenient? If the Evil White Men™ had the power to project phantom planes, successfully pull off 300 fake passenger biographies and put up fake images of families crying over them, wouldn’t these same Evil White Men™ make Atta’s note look like you think it should?
@Jason Speaks:
Austrian economics is built on the idea that people use means to achieve their desired ends. It doesn’t concern itself with motivations of the particular agents.
And yes, the Holmgren article is more about excluding the planes, than showing how the no-planes was pulled off. For that, it’s sufficient to do a youtube search for Theory of Ghostplane, which I’ve put up before for Mr. Goldberg’s benefit, unless I’m mistaken. September Clues deals with the shared live-feed that the networks used to coordinate the story.
@Jason Speaks:
JS , I have agreed that the JFK video was a hoax and you were right and I have no problem with that fact . So what ? Does that mean that magic bullets occur ?
You lose credibility when you say things like ” no one else sees” you have got to be kidding right ?
I think you might have seen some wacky lizard people stuff at some point long ago and since then you are convinced that all “conspiracies” are bunk . That’s what you call closed minded . Not good .
Look, if what you guys want is to sit around and feel like you are playing Dungeons and Dragons, and uncovering some deep dark conspiracy that no one else sees, then this site has failed its mission.
I think that more than half the entire population has at least some reservations with 911 as depicted by the establishment media . It’s not a ” no one else sees ” kind of a thing .
This site is all about real politics as opposed to the puppet show that we see played out on tv . This site has definitely failed it’s mission if we let the ridiculous stand as truth . This site has failed it’s mission if you , JS , go unchallenged .
@Jason Speaks:
Well now that’s a good question deserving of a decent answer. No, I wouldn’t have had the good Mr. Atta write his suicide valedictory nor his Al Quaeda forget-me-nots. But I like subtleness.
And there’s the rub. When Hollywood gets involved in the psy-op, farewell nuance!
@John hearns: Right. I’m closed minded because I have literally spend hours analyzing all these theories put forward. Not rejecting them out of hand, but requesting evidence, asking questions, talking about problems I see with them …. that is your definition of “closed minded”.
You realize there is a difference between gullible and open minded, right? Oh let me anticipate: “Why the only gullible ones are the ones that believe official story of Evil White Men™”
How is that subscription to TOQ coming? Rich?
The people” do not insult me. Only a small band of regulars who also insult everyone else.
A small band of white people are pro-white . Small for now .
@Trenchant:
I am trying hard to imagine the surgeon and the marine scribbling their POST-IT™’s before their respective operations, but it’s no easy task.
@John hearns: @Trenchant: Well you could do a 5 second Google search and read about it. Have you ever been in surgery? They do ridiculous things like put a note on which arm is to be operated on and ask you everyone several times to confirm, yes including a notes taped on the arm.
Here is a story about it. Are you even serious about these 911 claims or is this just a way to pass time?
http://www.thestar.com/article/571096
@John hearns: Why don’t you subscribe to TOQ and provide support so they can reach more White people? You too Rich
@Jason Speaks:
You’ve voiced some vague reservations about the official version of 9/11; you’ve done hours of homework, why not give voice to some specific problem you have?
@henry baxley:
“Oh and as for building 7 It was indeed a controlled demolition. by the FIRE DEPARTMENT. In order to prevent the fire from spreading to nearby buildings, they ordered it destroyed because they were spread too thin at that point to controll it.
How does the FIRE DEPARTMENT rig a buliding of that size to fall in its own footprint within hours of the initial colapse of WTC one and two?
Answer; they couldn’t.
@Sean Grant:
I wonder if it is standard for FIREMEN to have access to that amount of explosives on hand to take down a buliding of that size.
Seriously, the building fell straight down at free fall speed un-hindered by any support beams.
@Jason Speaks:
Where did you get the idea M☻$$@Ð was involved, anyway? That wasn’t in the official narrative.
I finding it amusing how all the RATS got exposed in this thread.. ha ha Good Job people.. These types must be completely delusional that anyone with a brain would subscribe to their idiotic arguments about 9-11.. That’s the LITMUS TEST.. I would just like to congratulate everyone that contributed in outing them out! Bravo!!! There are a few others that would add to the mix.. but all in good time.
If you want to know who you’re dealing with just ask them what’s their take on 9-11.. That one question should clear the smoke off the bat!
@Trenchant: A Mossad operation is possible, but not proven. Or maybe I should say the theory is plausible. There is no direct evidence for it that I know of. But it is the kind of thing an intelligent agency might attempt (less risky than all the other theories speculated about). Basically, just make use of patsies. But I am in no way asserting I believe it happened. It just strikes me as odd that you guys ignore a more likely line of behind the scenes influence.
And no, it is not a part of the official story, obviously. Are you trying to make a strawman out of me? Someone who only goosesteps with the rest of the sheeple and can’t handle the truth? I am capable of being skeptical of both the government and Alex Jones.
And you don’t believe every story at odds with the government do you? There are conspiracy theories that claim the government has done ridiculous things I am sure you laugh at. There are literally hundreds of them.
So, you exercise some critical thinking and see what makes sense to you.
@Facio Libre: I said I believe the passengers on those planes were real people and that they died. I do not believe that almost 300 biographies were printed in newspapers, with workplace, school and town information without some of it coming out as fake after 10 years.
Also, there have been several families that cried on air over their lost families on those flights. I don’t find the claims that the families were either lying for money or paid actors credible. I saw nothing to change my mind on that. Needless to say, I find these particular accusations hateful and insensitive in the extreme, but that is for another discussion.
As I said, there is always a smirk behind these accusations. An eagerness to show the world how Evil White Men Really Are. An eagerness to be seen p*ssing on the memory of those who died. And there is never so much as an hint of patriotic sentiment in any of it. People know what you are.
I saw nothing that could change anyone’s mind in the videos and sites. It always boiled down to empoy conjecture and speculation about how mean the White Men are who run the government. This is how you promote White Advocacy or WN?
Maybe some of you think this works as a propaganda device to highlight Jewish misdeeds in the world. I understand the value of false but effective propaganda, whatever the morality of it may be. But this doesn’t even work on that level. It is too easily discounted by anyone who examines it for a few minutes. Although, the nation’s IQ may be falling, so it might be more effective in the future than I imagine. Maybe this is just a case of you guys promoting a fake story for its propaganda value in a cynical fashion. In that case, I am just naïve.
By the way Facio, go buy a subscription from TOQ
COMMENT ABOUT 9/11
In general – about life – most theories and ideas are pretty bad, and most conspiracy theories are no exception. Some people here may believe some bad theories, while others here in dismissing those bad theories may make other mistakes such as – possibly – to leave the impression the official story is, itself, acceptable.
The best way to focus on the issue of 9/11 is to start with the politics of the time and consider who benefited from the event. The neo-cons had societies through the 90′s pushing hard for pretty much everything that then occured after 9/11, and as we know the neo-cons were/are all about delivering Israel’s regional ambitions. So we have a motive.
Then we have the muslim fundamentalism and extremism, and in that we absolutely also have a motive.
So from here, in order to avoid coming up with bad/unrealistic theories involving massive conspiracies requiring the silence of thousands of individuals, the best approach is simply to ask, exactly what a group of conspiritors would have asked, had they heard of a fledgling conspiracy by some arabs to fly planes at buildings: What is the minimum, most low risk, involvement we can bring that will secure the maximum chances of the success of this arab pipedream, in such way the fallout creates an environment whereby our political operators – already in place – can secure the policies we want to see enacted?
How plausible is it an arab pipedream for a 911 existed in the late 90′s? Massively. They are always dreaming and trying to get organized to do such things.
What is the minimum involvement necessary by a sophisticated well resourced team to maximize the chances the arab pipedream gets realized? Actually, very very minimal. Some missions that minimize the chances the plot will be found out. Easy to do…for example creating a bunch of false alarms will bog down the people who might have otherwise been more attentive.
What else? Some subtle influence over strategy. This could be accomplished using operatives already in place in source countries.
The possibility of adding some minimal explosives to the buildings is high risk, but it is possible…if we bear in mind that the objective would only be to do the *minimum* at the lowest risk available, in order not to guarantee the result but just maximize the chances of the result. Bearing in mind, it could already be assumed that large planes would damage the building with lots of fuel, which for all they knew might be enough on its own. A few floors of explosives would just tip the balance if that was needed.
It is possible that a guy like silverman would be in on a minimal arrangement like that. We know he changed his insurance just before the event and made billions out of 9/11. Why wouldn’t he do a great deal like that, where he was also helping secure the security of his people? Maybe he wouldn’t though…maybe he’s a patriot…but on the other hand maybe he would.
The explosives issue is brought to the focus by building 7. It’s very very hard to explain building 7′s collapse. There are possible explanations, but an explanation is always possible. As mentioned at the beginning, most theories are bad, though.
@Facio Libre: And I left off the first paragraph to you, here it is:
Is English a second language for you? How was anyone been “exposed” on this thread. I forthrightly told them I don’t see any evidence for believing the planes on 911 were holographic projections or that the planes were computer generated phantoms broadcast to the whole nation. I find zero evidence for that.
And again, go get a subscription to TOQ for only $30 and stop repeating old wive’s tales like an old woman. Make yourself useful.
@Mickey Meadows: I think if anything besides or in addition to the “official story” happened, it is likely to be along these lines. Well stated. If Israeli intelligence wanted to facilitate an attack, they would want maximum payoff for minimum input (and minimum fingerprints). Isn’t this what Jews or any intelligent person does? You take advantage of what is already in the water. You exploit whatever dynamic is already in place.
It’s like this so-called plot against a Saudi ambassador by the Iranians. Something about it doesn’t seem right. I could see Isrealis behind it. But, I couldn’t see them creating holograms of people that got shot, etc. Again, the first rule of an operation (false flag or not) is keep your fingerprints off the deed!
Most of these conspiracy theories being floated put the fingerprints of so-called Evil White Men all over them. Why would they do it that way? Come on guys.
@Abe Goldstein:
Abe – you say you think 9/11 was a conspiracy but not Israel. But we have to consider a couple of things. First, people are generally not evil. Jews aren’t evil, whites aren’t evil. The decision to add influence to a plot like 9/11 to maximize its prospects, would be hugely uncomfortable for anyone involved who had strong cultural connections to the thousands of people who would be killed. This is true of Western jews just as much as Whites.
So really, there would have to be a sense of massive historical need….there would have to be rationalizations that ones very national survival in the long run, indeed the survival of ones people, was potentiall at stake. This is the sort of justification that would be necessary. There would have to be a huge payoff…a huge reason to do it.
Abe – there are no other huge payoffs delivered to any other group than the Jewish/Israeli. America didn’t need a reason this big to invade Afganistan. America didn’t have a need to invade Iraq at all.
But for Israel, the benefit was about securing or reinforcing regional hegemony. Getting rid of the competing regimes, leaving itself free from competition and able to shape the region. That’s a massive benefit.
It was PURELY Jewish and israeli pressure groups clamouring for an invasion of Iraq, right form the mid 90′s. It was a Jewish dominated neocon movement that created organizations like, something like “the society for the new american century” that called for the ideological package and policies that were all enacted in the wake of 9/11.
So Abe, to the extent 9/11 involved some conspiracy other than the arabs, there is no other plausible group in the frame than Israel.
By the way, you keep telling people here they are anti-semites. But I hardly ever hear anyone say they hate all jews just for being jews. What you hear is that people regard organized Judaism and Jewry as implicitly and – in terms of actions and policies pushed – overtly….. hateful of *us*. Do you have a criticism of that position? Or do you just want to abusively use the wholly irrational notion that to identify wrong doing on the part of organized jewry or bigotry in judaism still believed and intrinsic within jewish culture…..by some law of the universe is a hateful thing to go and expose.
The Ziocons are trying to paint the Occupy Wall Street as a movement funded by so-called Islamists as Obama administration has been criticized by Tehran and Hizbullah for mishandling the protesters.
Another reason to attack Iran for Wall Street which funds Israel.
http://rehmat1.wordpress.com/2011/11/02/ows-is-turning-into-anti-zionism-tsunami/
@Rich Pearson:
Rich – building 7 is very hard to explain except as a controlled demolition. It’s very hard to get a building that wide to collapse into its footprint. It requires well timed explosions.
That said, I’m not an expert. But something that does look true is what I read someone say: if building 7 was wired, so were the twin towers.
However, in my view if building 7 was wired this is actually evidence that the people who did that were part of a team trying to influence the outcome of a terrorist plot that they were not directly running. This is because, to wire building 7 suggests a lack of 100% certainty which buildings in the WTC were to be targeted.
There was no good reason to wire building 7 if no plane was to hit it. However, their reasoning would have been “but if a plane hits a twin tower and that goes down, but another plane hits building 7 and that doesn’t go down, that will raise suspicions”. So they had to be on the safe side.
So, then why did they bring down building 7 on the day, despite knowing full well that doing this would create the most powerful line of suspicion? The reason is simple. They had to, because if building 7 was wired for explosives then to leave it standing was to permanently leave evidence in place that could potentially blow the lid off the whole thing.
In the high emotion of the aftermath of the twin towers, there must have been some neurosis and too-ing and fro-ing about this, which also explains why the building stayed standing for so many hours. It was a detail not thought through.
@Jason Speaks
As was expected… just more BS from you Squeaks.. smoke and mirrors.. Cheers!
However, there is a more innocent explanation for building 7 being wired. It was a government agency building and it’s possible there is some covert reason why national security dictated that in the event of the building being hijacked or controlled by some terrorist action, the option to bring the whole building down was necessary.
This explanation is supported if the reports are true that the fire service said on the day that they were intending to bring the building down. This is because there is no way in a million years the new york fire service would have been in on 9/11, but the could have, and would have, been in on top secret government policies to have some buildings wired.
It’s just another possibility, that’s all.
@Squeaker
And again, go get a subscription to TOQ for only $30 and stop repeating old wive’s tales like an old woman. Make yourself useful.
Why.. Perhaps, you’d like track me down by my credit card info?? ;-) Or are you trying to imply that since you’re a paying subscriber, then the garbage that you spew must somehow be more valid?? Hardly!
@Abe Goldstein:
I am NOT anti-semitic thank you. I am anti-false God (zionism, Christianity, Islam,…any religion that places man at the center of the universe via their “devine prophets” Moses, Budda, etc. These people were the most enlightened of their time, thats all. Not “blessed” or “chosen” any more than you or me.
That said, I AM pro-white…as is commanded by the laws of Nature.
@Jason Speaks:
Be careful, JS, you are in danger of failing Facio’s LITMUS TEST! I already flunked myself and am having to retake litmus 101 all over again! :-(
@Jason Speaks:
Evil Gentiles, sure, working in US military and intelligence were, in my view, the key material agents for the destruction. I don’t see them as anything more than quislings doing Israel’s bidding, however.
Why would they do such a thing? A fine question to pose to the grovelers from Washington who prostrate themselves every year at the AIPAC convention.
@Mickey Meadows:
I believe there were a few corrupt members of the Fire Service who accommodated the Naudet brothers’ need to document the event.
http://www.spingola.com/jules_naudet.htm
Trenchant
November 1, 2011 – 8:57 pm | Permalink
@Abe Goldstein:
“Iron is not a construction material. It’s steel.”
Irony is no jewish construction material- it’s steal.
@Facio Libre: I think you should subscribe so that you contribute something positive to this site, something beyond flame wars with everyone else. And why would you find the idea of contributing $30 so offensive?
@Trenchant: Hey genius, remove carbon from iron and what do you get?
S T E E L! Steel is made from iron ore and if you don’t realize that you need to stop commenting on technical issues.
@henry baxley: As a white man, I’m pro white, too. So, friends?
@TabuLa Raza: I wouldn’t respond to this except you make it look like I’m too stupid and ignorant to know that steel is made from iron. As to your little play on words..eh
@John hearns: How about this: You stand behind steel columns equal to the twin tower’s structure while a 767 weighing 400,000 pounds loaded with fuel is remotely piloted toward you at “only” 200 mph. Still think it would bounce off like a tin can?
@Abe Goldstein:
I’m glad we’re clear on the difference between iron and steel. Now how would steel be converted to iron in your scenario? By Islamic jet-fuel?
As for your scenario of remote-controlled planes (care to elaborate – who had this sort of technology?), I wouldn’t expect it to bounce off, no. Indeed I made no such claim. I believe the engines would punch into the structure and the rest would be distorted against the surface and splatter like a dum-dum bullet. An enormous amount of debris would end up falling down to the street level.
This is not what one observes on the “live” or “amateur” footage.
If goldstein is allowed to claim whitehood, it will start a slippery slope.
@Trenchant: “Hey genius, remove carbon from iron and what do you get?steel”
No, goldstein, that’z what YOU get. . .
“
@Jason Speaks:
“I do not believe that almost 300 biographies were printed in newspapers, with workplace, school and town information without some of it coming out as fake after 10 years.”
Ever seen any stories expressing doubts about the gas-chambers stories in the press after all these years?
@TabuLa Raza:
Still trying to figure out how this steel to iron conversion is supposed to have taken place. Muslim chemistry, I guess.
@Abe Goldstein:
Care to give you theory about how cars on FDR Drive – one mile away from the “plane” impacts – sustained damage like this?
http://goo.gl/yssz3
@Trenchant: I don’t think you are really researching iron, steel and thermite that much. Just enough to find something you can say “looks suspicious” and then stop any further investigation. After all, if you keep looking, it might not be so suspicious.
I get it: You don’t really believe any of these stories; however, you think these stories do some propaganda good in undermining The Evil White Men™ that rule this “horrible” country. A few others think it undermines Jewish power.
I would just suggest that while urban legends can indeed be useful in undermining certain targets, it is always best not to be directly linked as the source of the legend. They can also backfire, and end up inoculating the target from serious accusations later.
Politicians have done this before. They secretly put out ridiculous stories on themselves that are easily disproven; then when someone comes forward with real dirt, people are already of a mind to dismiss it. So, just be aware these propaganda operations can backfire.
Here are some of the grieving “:relatives”. Beats waiting tables!
http://goo.gl/DDOAU
@Abe Goldstein:
@John hearns: How about this: You stand behind steel columns equal to the twin tower’s structure while a 767 weighing 400,000 pounds loaded with fuel is remotely piloted toward you at “only” 200 mph. Still think it would bounce off like a tin can?
Abe , I will be kind by saying that that was not one of your better posts and I will leave it at that .
@Trenchant:
Trenchant , thanks for the link . Very interesting .
@Abe Goldstein:
I am friend to any person who doesn’t threaten my existance. Or whose behaviour is not friendly
@TabuLa Raza:
“Irony is no Jewish construction material, it’s steal” LOL
@John hearns: Here is a more interesting link:
https://www.toqonline.com/wp-login.php?action=register
@henry baxley:
“Irony is no Jewish construction material, it’s steal” LOL
Is it possible that the WTC scrap steel ( evidence) was quickly carted off and sold to china at a good profit ?
I am guessing it was .
@John hearns:
Check out Judy Wood’s website for some very strange photos of the damage. And to pre-empt the objection, the photos are from varied sources. I suspect the haste with which the steel was removed was more to prevent undue scrutiny, and less to make money.
@Jason Speaks: Well, maybe you’re in the same inorganic chem class as Mr Goldstein, and perhaps you could tell me how steel becomes iron in an “airline” explosion. You’ve done hours of homework, after all.
@Trenchant: You have no interest in finding answers. If every objection was fully answered, you find another way to make an objection. This is about saying how “evil” the American system is, how “evil” its people are, etc. This is about you mocking the American dead. You aren’t even fact-checking the most basic issues you bring up. You are just wasting everyone’s time by having them do it, refute you …. and then you pull another bogus question out of nowhere.
Not an honest debate.
@Jason Speaks:
More prevarication.
@Jason Speaks + company
Allow me to open up your mind..
Jason Speaks + company = http://www.thejidf.org/
U-Tube has copies of live reports on there with injured firefighters who escaped, relaying how they had rushed into the lobby, and then suddenly the basement exploded beneath them. Which must be part of conventional sequence of events once the 76th floor of a skyscraper had been struck by commercial jet liner piloted by a camel jockey that found himself behind the controls for the very 1st time in his life. He must’ve had a Saudi-designed portable guidance system on him that proved crucial in bringing the hijacked plane so accurately to the target which from his cockpit was appearing as a short pencil. I mean, everybody knows what a powerhouse of engineering brilliance the country of Saudi Arabia is. To learn more be certain to view Michael Moore’s film The Saudis Did It a.k.a. Fahrenheit 9/11
@henry baxley
@Jason Speaks:
Be careful, JS, you are in danger of failing Facio’s LITMUS TEST! I already flunked myself and am having to retake litmus 101 all over again! :-(
Here you go bud..
http://www.thejidf.org/2008/10/about-jidf.html
@Facio Libre: You can help promote the White cause by making a small $30 donation and getting a year’s subscription to this site. Use a gift card if you are paranoid that “they” will track you down. That would be a better use of time and effort than eating bandwidth with your pointless p*ssing contests.
@Squeaky Leaks
Your contributions to TOO are comparable as to those of Sarah Palin to the Tea Party.. You’re here to detract and to confuse, obfuscate.. and now most who come here for the great articles see right through your crap.. and.. I LOVE IT!
So to respond to your cheap attacks.. I’m helping out by undoing all the damage that you do here everyday.. ;- ) Cheers!
P.S. Don’t you worry Squeaks, I’ve been posting the links to the articles at this site all over the net.. Moreover, I’ve been introducing friends and all those who are willing to listen, to this site for quite some time… My contributions to the cause are already way about the $30.. so spare me you’re fakery..
Friends close, enemies closer. It’s all good.
It’s now official – there’s been no actual shortage of Holocaust Survivors :
Quote from The Holocaust Industry by Norman G. Finkelstein of the City University of New York, published by Verso in the year 2000:
‘The Israeli Prime Minister’s office recently put the number of “living Holocaust survivors” at nearly a million.’ (page 83)
I’ve checked out the six volumes of Churchill’s Second World War and the statement is quite correct – not a single mention of Nazi ‘gas chambers,’ a ‘genocide’ of the Jews, or of ‘six million’ Jewish victims of the war.
Eisenhower’s Crusade in Europe is a book of 559 pages; Churchill’s Second World War totals 4,448 pages; and De Gaulle’s three-volume Mémoires de guerre is 2,054 pages.
In this mass of writing, which altogether totals 7,061 pages (not including the introductory parts), published from 1948 to 1959, one will find no mention either of Nazi ‘gas chambers,’ a ‘genocide’ of the Jews, or of ‘six million’ Jewish victims of the war.
Dirty Little Secrets – the hidden, awkward origins of World War 2 – the unexpected views of four key diplomats who were close to events
Just consider the following:
· Joseph P. Kennedy, U.S. Ambassador to Britain during the years immediately preceding WW2 was the father of the famous American Kennedy dynasty. James Forrestal the first US Secretary of Defense (1947-1949) quotes him as saying “Chamberlain (the British Prime Minister) stated that America and the world Jews had forced England into the war”. (The Forrestal Diaries ed. Millis, Cassell 1952 p129).
· Count Jerzy Potocki, the Polish Ambassador in Washington, in a report to the Polish Foreign Office in January 1939, is quoted approvingly by the highly respected British military historian Major-General JFC Fuller. Concerning public opinion in America he says “Above all, propaganda here is entirely in Jewish hands…when bearing public ignorance in mind, their propaganda is so effective that people have no real knowledge of the true state of affairs in Europe… It is interesting to observe that in this carefully thought-out campaign… no reference at all is made to Soviet Russia. If that country is mentioned, it is referred to in a friendly manner and people are given the impression that Soviet Russia is part of the democratic group of countries… Jewry was able not only to establish a dangerous centre in the New World for the dissemination of hatred and enmity, but it also succeeded in dividing the world into two warlike camps…President Roosevelt has been given the power.. to create huge reserves in armaments for a future war which the Jews are deliberately heading for.” (Fuller, JFC: The Decisive Battles of the Western World vol 3 pp 372-374.)
· Hugh Wilson, the American Ambassador in Berlin until 1938, the year before the war broke out, found anti-Semitism in Germany ‘understandable’. This was because before the advent of the Nazis, “the stage, the press, medicine and law [were] crowded with Jews…among the few with money to splurge, a high proportion [were] Jews…the leaders of the Bolshevist movement in Russia, a movement desperately feared in Germany, were Jews. One could feel the spreading resentment and hatred.” (Hugh Wilson: Diplomat between the Wars, Longmans 1941, quoted in Leonard Mosley, Lindbergh, Hodder 1976).
· Sir Nevile Henderson, British Ambassador in Berlin ‘said further that the hostile attitude in Great Britain was the work of Jews and enemies of the Nazis, which was what Hitler thought himself’ (Taylor, AJP: The Origins of the Second World War Penguin 1965, 1987 etc p 324).
Etc etc etc etc http://www.rense.com/general92/dirty.htm
The US is over-Edomed:
In fact Edom is over-represented in Hollywood, Wall Street, US war-making foreign policy, the Supreme Court, the legal system generally, mainstream media-management, the universities and the radical feminist and pro-abortion and pro-gay movements. A century before the birth of Christ, a people utterly condemned by all the major prophets, the Edomites, were converted as a group to become ‘Jews’. According to Josephus the early Jewish historian, ‘They (Edom) were hereafter no other than Jews’ (Antiquities, XIII ix 1; XV vii 9). Roth’s Concise Jewish Encyclopedia says ‘Hyrcanus forcibly converted [Edom]. From then on they were part of the Jewish people..’ (p 154). The Jewish Encyclopedia says ‘Edom is in Jewry’ (Volume5 p41). The evil Herods were Edomites. Jesus twice says ‘those who say they are Jews and are not’ are a ‘synagogue of Satan’ (Rev2:9, 3:9); ‘Because you are not sheep of my flock you do not believe’ (Jn10:24-27). The word ‘Jew’ became almost synonymous with these people. True Israel is hidden within the true Church (Jn14:21 Mt7:14).
According to the book “Jesus in the Talmud” published by Princeton University Press, written by Peter Schaefer who heads up Princeton’s Judaic studies program, the Jewish Talmud speaks of Jesus being “punished in Hell for eternity by being made to sit in a cauldron of boiling excrement”..
The Bible itself describes how the Creator of the Universe will respond to this Insult above all Insults, in Isaiah 63:1-6 ‘Who is this who comes from Edom with garments spattered (with blood)’, “I have trodden the winepress.. their blood spattered my garments..”. Marginal references link this with Rev 19:11-16: ‘Behold a white horse.. the one sitting on it.. is clothed in a garment dipped in blood.. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of the Almighty. On His robe.. he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords.”
Christ Himself will destroy Edom. Obadiah verse 4: ‘Though you soar like the eagle and set your nest among the stars [referring to Edom’s power at the end of the age - see the US President's official crest with occult, non-biblical, so-called 'Star of David' formed with stars], I will bring you down from there, says the Lord.’ ‘There shall be no survivor from the house of Esau, for the Lord has spoken’ (verse 18). If you study the subject of ‘Babylon’ (Revelation 17 and 18, Isaiah 47, Jeremiah 50 and 51), it clearly refers to the sordid, rotten, sick, corrupt anti-Christian money-power so visible today, manipulating politicians and controlling the media. Edom is linked to this Babylon (compare Isaiah 34:5-15 and Isaiah 13:19-22 with Revelation 19:3).
The Edomite ‘conversion’ clearly opened the way for a virtual takeover along the lines predicted by Ezekiel in chapter 35 and 36:1-5 (“Mount Seir” in chapter 35 is another name for Edom). The Edomite called Antipater became the Procurator of Judea in 47BC. Ten years later his son Herod actually became ‘king of the Jews’, starting an Edomite dynasty which ruled Palestine under the authority of Rome for over a hundred years. How could an Edomite, inveterate enemy of Israel, become king in Jerusalem? Certainly not by himself, without great support from his own constituency.
This situation would in itself have been a stimulus for an influx of population from the arid country of Edom into the more hospitable neighbouring environment of Judea, an influx which would obviously have been encouraged for political reasons by the ruling Herodian dynasty. Edomites would have been appointed to the most influential positions, in order to extend and establish the Edomite grip on the territory and people. Herod became notorious amongst Christians for his ‘massacre of the innocents’, a supernaturally inspired attempt on the life of the infant Christ (Matthew 2:16). Herod’s son Herod Antipas, continuing the work, was responsible for the grisly and appalling murder of John the Baptist (Matthew 14:6-12).
In the New Testament, the English word ‘Jew” is a translation of the Greek Ioudaios (Yehudah-os), a Judean or inhabitant of Judah (Yehudah) – Judea – the former territory of the tribe of Judah (Yehudah), which now contained a substantial percentage of people of Edomite origin who possessed the political power under the aegis of Rome. Christ himself consistently showed a powerful antipathy towards the people that the English New Testament calls Jews, but who were more accurately Judeans, the inhabitants of the Edomite-dominated territory of Judea. Jesus said to the Jews ‘Because you are not sheep of my flock you do not believe’ (John 10:24-27) and ‘I was only sent to the lost sheep of the House of Israel’ (Matthew 15:25). In fact, Christ referred to those ‘Jews’ (people of Judea) ‘who believed in him’, as being ‘of their father the devil’ (John 8: 31,44), while in complete contrast He instructed His disciples – who were from Galilee, not Judea (Acts 1:11) – to pray to ‘our Father who is in heaven’. Was He just suffering from alternating good and bad moods? John the Apostle in his book of Revelations refers to those ‘who say they are Jews and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan’ (2:9), repeated in the following chapter (3:9). Judea and Galilee were two separate states and political entities, as any Bible with maps of the Holy Land in New Testament times will show. Jesus Himself was not a Jew (Judean) living in Judea – he was a Galilean who lived in Galilee (Matthew 26:69, John 7:41). He was a true Israelite of the true tribe of Judah, not of the spurious Edomite Judeans or Jews. He is in fact the true King of the true Israel! He grew up in Nazareth in Galilee. His disciples were fishermen from the Sea of Galilee. Christ visited Jerusalem, but spent most of His life in Galilee. John 7:1 says, ‘After this Jesus stayed in Galilee; He could not stay in Judaea, because the Jews were out to kill him’. His followers were constrained ‘for fear of the Jews’ (John 7:13, 19:38, 20:19). This phrase shows that although there were true Israelite people in Judea, such as Mary and Martha and their brother Lazarus in Bethany, and those who welcomed Him when He entered Jerusalem on a donkey, the name Jew had become almost completely associated with the evil Edomite counterfeit-Israel, ‘synagogue of Satan’.
‘Jesus spoke to the crowds in parables. He never spoke to them except in parables’ (Matthew 13:34). Many churches and Sunday schools teach that Jesus used parables to make His teachings clearer. But all four Gospels say exactly the opposite, that the parables were often in a kind of code – the disciples asked Him in private to explain certain parables. When the disciples asked Jesus why He spoke to the crowd in parables, He replied ‘Because the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven are revealed to you, but not revealed to them’ (Matthew 13:10-11, Mark 4:11,12, Luke 8:9, John 12:37+). In the passage in Mark, Jesus says ‘The secret of the kingdom of God is given to you, but to those who are outside everything comes in parables, so that they may see and see again, but not perceive; may hear and hear again, but not understand; otherwise they might be converted and be forgiven’. Luke says Jesus told His disciples, ‘The mysteries of the kingdom of heaven are revealed to you; for the rest there are only parables, so that they may see but not perceive, listen but not understand’. Was Jesus simply concerned with the salvation of all the ‘miserable sinners’? He said, ‘Do not cast your pearls in front of pigs, or they may trample them and turn and tear you to pieces’ (Matthew 7:6). Are these actual pigs and was Jesus simply showing concern about his followers’ jewellery? Who are these swine if not the Jews, who follow the sick teachings of the Talmud, wherein Jesus is insulted in the most depraved manner? Why do Christians disobey Christ in trying to share that which is holy with the antiChristian Jews?
The Jews shouted ‘Crucify Him!’ (John 19:15) and ‘His blood be on us and on our children!’ (Matthew 27:25). Pilate was using irony when he wrote ‘Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews (Greek = Judeans)’ (John 19:19) – i.e.‘the Galilean who was King of the Judeans’, as in ‘Queen Victoria of England, Empress of India’. The spiritual leaders of the Jews were the Pharisees, who unsurprisingly were associated with the (Edomite) Herodians ((Matthew 22:16, Mark 3:6 and 12:13). Jesus utterly condemned the Pharisees as hypocrites, using the word repeatedly (Matthew 15:7, 22:18, 23:13, 15, 23, 25 and 27). He also called them ‘brood (offspring) of vipers’ (Matthew 3:8, 12:34, 23:33). Was this just a loose hyperbolic turn of phrase, like ‘sons of bitches’, or did it embody a real supernatural truth? As is well known, Satan was associated with the idea of serpent.
The Jews of the western world like to portray WASPs (‘white Anglo-Saxon Protestants’) as the archetypal racists, but are adamant that Palestinians born in ‘Israel’ (formerly Palestine) and chased out by the violence and terror-tactics of the Jewish settlers, should not be permitted to return to their homes under any circumstances, although Jewish immigrants from Milwaukee or San Diego or anywhere else (even if atheists) should be given full citizenship and rights. A ‘Jew’ is defined in the Israeli constitution as someone born of a Jewish mother, irrespective of belief. The word does not refer therefore to a person’s religion, but to his or her ancestry or race. The virulent and murderous racism of the Zionist-supporting anti-racists is therefore Pharisee-like in its hypocrisy.
THE ENDURING PATTERN OF LIBERAL VALUES
or what was and is
[A View from the Diner’s Club: Essays 1987-1991 by Gore Vidal.]
Gore Vidal with impressive family connections to high levels in the political elite including Al Gore, had this to say more than ten years ago:
‘In my lifetime and country I have watched our governors manipulate Opinion with the greatest of ease. Certain races, arbitrary categories of human beings, political systems are demonised or trivialized on a daily and unrelenting basis. These are carefully crafted subliminal opinionated messages that hiss through the airwaves and into the minds of everyone from the first switching on of the cathode tube to the last TV supper when the light goes out.
‘America’s Public Enemy Number One (alas, our public enemies become yours, too) are the Arabs, bestial, sub-human terrorists. The American Israel lobby can take full credit for this campaign and their canny investment in American politicians is so astute that this year 65 out of 100 Senators, acting on the lobby’s orders, forbade the Administration to allow Arafat on American soil long enough to address the United Nations.
‘I would stop all military aid to the Middle East. This would oblige the hard-liners in Israel to make peace with the Palestinians. We have supported Israel for forty years. No other minority in the history of the United States has ever extorted so much Treasury money for its Holy Land as the Israeli lobby.
‘The corporate grip on opinion in the United States is one of the wonders of the Western world. No First World country has ever managed to eliminate so entirely from its media all objectivity – much less dissent.
‘ Of course, it is possible for any citizen with time to spare and a canny eye, to work out what is actually going on. But for the many there is no time, and the network news is the only news even though it may not be news at all, but only a series of flashing fictions intended to keep docile the huddled masses, like the avowed commercials keep the addled consumers avid for products.
‘Currently, the Arabs are being thoroughly demonised by the Israel lobby while the Japanese are being, somewhat nervously, demonised by elements of the corporate state. But neither will do as a long-term devil because the Arabs are too numerous (and have too much oil) while the Japanese will simply order us to stop it; should we disobey them, they will buy the networks and show us many hours of the soothing tea ceremony.’
@Trenchant: Don’t you understand that steel is made of iron – are you thick headed? The base material is iron ore!
Even a black man could understand that!
@Trenchant: Those cars a half mile away look like they were torched – happens all the time in NYC.
@John hearns: I’ll accept that you are gracious in defeat.
I guess we need to build a mock up of the tower and remote control a plane into it to prove it could penetrate it and create thermite, and the losers would have to leave the country in shame.
@Abe Goldstein:
I understand how iron is transformed to steel, thank you. Over to you for the explanation of – steel to iron.
@Abe Goldstein:
Dov Zakheim’s your go-to guy for the mock-up! He could also shed light on the missing Pentagon trillion, too. Two birds, one stone.
http://goo.gl/TOuyX
@Abe Goldstein:
One thousand cars torched, engine-blocks melted, upholstery not burnt (?), gas-tanks unexploded, and all as the towers came down? Hoodlums enjoying a face-off with the FBI, police and emergency workers? Did Bin Laden’s boys destroy the cars, or was that the spook-brigade?
Take it away!
@John hearns:
What…do you expect Jews to give it away ?
I’m assuming Jews owned the building, they own evertthing else.
The Story of Yaakov Markus
Quoted from Maxim Ghilan How Israel Lost Its Soul, Penguin Books (1974) p179:
‘Yaakov Markus was born in Berlin on 22 November 1927 to a non-Jewish mother named Mathilde Markus and to a Jewish father. He came to Israel and in the fifties was drafted to serve in the 1956 Sinai campaign. He was killed there and buried provisionally at the Shelah Military Cemetery. Later this cemetery was abolished and the dead were transferred to other permanent graves. Yaakov Markus’s bones were to be interred – as Jewish custom stipulates for Gentile dead – ‘beyond the pale’, that is, behind a small stone fence cordoning off a piece of the Haifa cemetery.
‘In this plot were buried other non-Jewish fighters, pilots and technicians who lost their lives helping Israel win her independence in 1948 and preserving it in the years that followed. Markus’s parents did not accept the Rabbinate’s ruling. They wanted their son to be granted the same honor as the rest of his fallen friends – burial in the Military Cemetery. General Goren, the Chief Rabbi of the Israeli Army – a visionary racist who wanted the conquest of both banks of the Jordan, advocated a religious state and tried to modernize religion for that purpose – was not in the country. The bereaved parents appealed directly to the Prime Minister, David Ben Gurion, who had to make a special ruling for them. Markus was finally buried in the same row as his fallen friends. But so that ‘his bones should not be mingled with theirs’, as Meshulam Schlesinger, Director of the Military Cemetery, put it, his grave was set somewhat apart.
‘Meshulam Schlesinger officially stated that the corpse of Yaakov Markus had been circumcised after his death, to allow it to lie beside the Jewish fighters. This was later denied no less officially by the Ministry of Defense. But the grisly and macabre atmosphere surrounding the case has done much to deepen public concern.’
Committee for Open Debate of the Holocaust – breaking the power of taboo
http://www.codoh.com/
Hundreds of key documents, including book-length works such as Germar Rudolf’s Foundations, film and video classics like One Third of the Holocaust, and hundreds more books, essays, and photos on every aspect of the Holocaust for on-line seekers of truth around the world.
and
The world’s largest and liveliest revisionist-moderated on-line discussion of the Holocaust. Wide-ranging, freewheeling, daily controversy on virtually every aspect of the Holocaust debate, with emphasis on breaking news and burning issues. We welcome all views expressed with civility and which are on point.
and
America’s most successful revisionist activist, Bradley Smith, writes simply but strongly on how the Holocaust taboo blinds professors, journalists, politicians, and the human rights community to their responsibilities to encourage a free flow of ideas. In this Blog Smith reveals himself in the light of day in a way that his most vociferous critics would not dream of attempting.
@me: Any good sources on the activity of Jews in the South at the end of the war?
Dr. Faust makes an Interesting observation here, indeed..
Or he or she [Trenchant} may well be part of the above disinfo operation and be playing the role of easily-discredited-conspiracy theorist–a foil to the JS/HB/AG/WR scripted roles of reasonable-and-oh-so-patient-skeptics.
JS/HB/AG/WR are just too obvious.. They stick out here like a bunch of sore thumbs.. Trenchant, on the other hand.. sneaky, sneaky.. hmmm?? ;-)
@Jason Speaks
You come here everyday.. Day-in and day-out.. leaving comments practically to every single article, for hours on end, making idiotic statements, detracting, obfuscating, distorting issues, etc. Every SINGLE DAY for hours on end.. I was thinking.. BOY you got a lot of free time on your hands. Why don’t you go out and get a JOB??? And then it came to me.. THIS IS YOUR JOB!
http://www.thejidf.org/2008/10/about-jidf.html
Yeah, you know.. just so everybody knows.. ;-)
Cheers!
@FacioLibre: Also, you can just send cash to TOQ. When you think about how much money is spent on beer, fast food and cable TV, we should all be contributions. You can start buy subscribing to TOQ
Max Nordau (1849-1923) was the co-founder of the World Zionist Organization together with Theodor Herzl.
Have a look at this Max Nordau quote from Ben Hecht’s book ‘Perfidy’ – which is available for free in PDF format at
http://www.hirhome.com/israel/perfidy.pdf (on page 232 of 261):
Quote:
In the Zionist Congress of 1911, 22 years before Hitler came to power, and three years before World War I, Nordau said, “How dare the smooth talkers, the clever official blabbers, open their mouths and boast of progress. . . . Here they hold jubilant peace conferences in which they talk against war. . . . But the same righteous Governments, who are so nobly, industriously active to establish the eternal peace, are preparing, by their own confession, complete annihilation for six million people, and there is nobody, except the doomed themselves, to raise his voice in protest although this is a worse crime than any war . . .” unquote.
____________________________________________________________________
And take a look at the article from The American Hebrew, October 31 1919 (see attached reproduction below), prophesying a ‘holocaust’ of ‘six million’:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_H._Glynn
http://www.jrbooksonline.com/images/091031crucifixion.gif
The Crucifixion of Jews Must Stop!
By Martin H. Glynn
(Former Governor of the State of N.Y.)
From across the sea six million men and women call to us for help, and eight hundred thousand little children cry for bread.
These children, these men and women are our fellow-members of the human family, with the same claim on life as we, the same susceptibility to the winter’s cold, the same propensity to death before the fangs of hunger. Within them reside the illimitable possibilities for the advancement of the human race as naturally would reside in six million human beings. We may not be their keepers but we ought to be their helpers.
In the face of death, in the throes of starvation there is no place for mental distinctions of creed, no place for physical differentiations of race. In this catastrophe, when six million human beings are being whirled toward the grave by a cruel and relentless fate, only the most idealistic promptings of human nature should sway the heart and move the hand.
Six million men and women are dying from lack of the necessaries of life; eight hundred thousand children cry for bread. And this fate is upon them through no fault of their own, through no transgression of the laws of God or man; but through the awful tyranny of war and a bigoted lust for Jewish blood.
In this threatened holocaust of human life, forgotten are the niceties of philosophical distinction, forgotten are the differences of historical interpretation; and the determination to help the helpless, to shelter the homeless, to clothe the naked and to feed the hungry becomes a religion at whose altar men of every race can worship and women of every creed can kneel. In this calamity the temporalities of man’s fashionings fall away before the eternal verities of life, and we awaken to the fact that from the hands of one God we all come and before the tribunal of one God we all must stand on the day of final reckoning. And when that reckoning comes mere profession of lips will not weigh a pennyweight; but deeds, mere intangible deeds, deeds that dry the tear of sorrow and allay the pain of anguish, deeds that with the spirit of the Good Samaritan pour oil and wine in wounds and find sustenance and shelter for the suffering and the stricken, will outweigh all the stars in the heavens, all the waters in the seas, all the rocks and metals in all the celestian globes that revolve in the firmament around us.
etc etc etc
WW2 Allied vs German bombing philosophies compared
One way of comparing the British and American philosophies concerning their attacks (primarily on civilian targets, using incendiaries to burn people alive, mainly women and children) on German cities with the quintessentially-evil Nazi tactics is to compare the nature of bomber designs by the Allies and those of the Germans. The maximum bomb loads and number of engines make an interesting and revealing comparison.
Bomber name – Max bomb load (No. of engines)
WW2 German bombers
Dornier Do.215 – 2,200lbs (2)
Heinkel He.111 – 4,400lbs (2)
Junkers Ju.88 – 4,190lbs (2)
WW2 British bombers
Avro Lancaster – 22,000lbs (4)
HandleyPage Halifax – 13,000lbs (4)
Short Stirling – 14,000lbs (4)
WW2 American bombers
Boeing Flying Fortress – 9,600lbs (4)
Consolidated Liberator – 12,800lbs (4)
Being Superfortress – 20,000lbs (4)
German camps vs the Soviet Gulag
People who complain about the German concentration camps in WW2, rarely complain about the very much larger Soviet Gulag camps, which Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn (in his magnum opus The Gulag Archipelago, paperback edition, vol 2 p 79) describes as being under the control of the Jew Matvei Berman, the “Chief of Gulag”. Yakov Rappoport was deputy chief of construction (p 78). Solzhenitsyn credits Naftaly Frenkel, a ‘Turkish-born Jew’, with being works chief / chief overseer of the one-hundred-and-forty-mile-long Belomor (Baltic-White Sea) canal, built entirely with slave labour (p 72). Frenkel, Berman and Rappoport are amongst six men described by Solzhenitsyn as ‘hired murderers’, ‘each of whom accounted for thirty thousand lives’ (p 91).
Wikipedia: “There were at least 476 separate camps, some of them comprising hundreds, even thousands of camp units. The most infamous complexes were those at arctic or subarctic regions. Today’s major industrial cities of the Russian Arctic such as Norilsk, Vorkuta, Kolyma and Magadan, were camps originally built by prisoners and run by ex-prisoners.. More than 14 million people passed through the Gulag from 1929 to 1953, with a further 6 to 7 million being deported and exiled to remote areas of the USSR. According to de-classified archive data released by the successor agency to the KGB after Perestroika, a total of 1,053,829 people died in the GULAG from 1934 to 1953, not counting those who died in labor colonies. The total population of the camps varied from 510,307 (in 1934) to 1,727,970 (in 1953).. Most Gulag inmates were not political prisoners, although the political prisoner population was always significant. People could be imprisoned in a Gulag camp for crimes such as unexcused absences from work, petty theft, or anti-government jokes. About half of the political prisoners were sent to Gulag prison camps without trial; per official data, there were more than 2.6 million imprisonment sentences in cases investigated by the secret police, 1921-1953.”
Hitler saw the tremendous danger posed to Germany by Communism. He lived through attempted communist revolutions in Germany in 1919, led by the Jews Karl Liebknecht and Rosa Luxemburg. He appreciated the desperate need to eliminate this threat, a fact that earned him the immense hatred and animosity of the Jewish organisations and the media and politicians of the west which they could influence. After all, according to the Jewish writer Chaim Bermant, although Jews formed less than five percent of Russia’s population, they formed more than fifty percent of its revolutionaries. According to the Jewish writer Chaim Bermant in his book The Jews (1977, chapter 8):
‘It must be added that most of the leading revolutionaries who convulsed Europe in the final decades of the last century and the first decades of this one, stemmed from prosperous Jewish families.. They were perhaps typified by the father of revolution, Karl Marx.. Thus when, after the chaos of World War I, revolutions broke out all over Europe, Jews were everywhere at the helm; Trotsky, Sverdlov, Kamenev and Zinoviev in Russia, Bela Kun in Hungary, Kurt Eisner in Bavaria, and, most improbable of all, Rosa Luxemburg in Berlin.
‘To many outside observers, the Russian revolution looked like a Jewish conspiracy, especially when it was followed by Jewish-led revolutionary outbreaks in much of central Europe. The leadership of the Bolshevik Party had a preponderance of Jews.. Of the seven members of the Politburo, the inner cabinet of the country, four, Trotsky (Bronstein), Zinoviev (Radomsky), Kamenev (Rosenfeld) and Sverdlov, were Jews.’
Other authors agree with this:
“There has been a tendency to circumvent or simply ignore the significant role of Jewish intellectuals in the German Communist Party, and thereby seriously neglect one of the genuine and objective reasons for increased anti-Semitism during and after World War 1.. The prominence of Jews in the revolution and early Weimar Republic is indisputable, and this was a very serious contributing cause for increased anti-Semitism in post-war years.. It is clear then that the stereotype of Jews as socialists and communists.. led many Germans to distrust the Jewish minority as a whole and to brand Jews as enemies of the German nation.” (Sarah Gordon Hitler, Germans and the ‘Jewish Question’ Princeton University Press (1984) p 23).
“The second paroxysm of strong anti-Semitism came after the critical role of Jews in International Communism and the Russian Revolution and during the economic crises of the 1920s and 30s… Anti-Semitism intensified throughout Europe and North America following the perceived and actual centrality of Jews in the Russian Revolution.. Such feelings were not restricted to Germany, or to vulgar extremists like the Nazis. All over Northern Europe and North America, anti-Semitism became the norm in ‘nice society’, and ‘nice society’ included the universities.” (Martin Bernal, Black Athena vol. 1 pp. 367, 387).
“The major role Jewish leaders played in the November (Russian) revolution was probably more important than any other factor in confirming (Hitler’s) anti-Semitic beliefs.” (J&S Pool, Who Financed Hitler, p.164).
Jews in pre-war Germany were accepted as enemy aliens after Samuel Untermeyer, the leader of the World Jewish Economic Federation, declared war on Germany on August 6 1933. (Edwin Black The Transfer Agreement: the Untold Story of the Secret Pact between the Third Reich and Palestine (1984) pp272-277) According to Black, ‘The one man who most embodied the potential death blow to Germany was Samuel Untermeyer.’ (p 369). This was the culmination of a worldwide boycott of German goods led by international Jewish organizations. The London Daily Express on March 24, 1933 carried the headline Judea Declares War on Germany.
@Jason Speaks
You’re abnormal behavior is showing Squeaks.. You use these scripted responses.. Is that what they teach you at JIDF?? How to respond when your cover gets blown?? Eh Squeaks! Just continue to repeat the following: please donate money for the cause.. please donate money for the cause, over and over.. Are you hoping that I will go away.. and that the readers of the comments at TOO will miss or forget what was all the crap all about that you were being called out on in the first place??… squeaky rat..
@FacioLibre:
I’m relaxed about appearing a pariah on this blog by flogging the no-planes theory. Of all publics, this one would seem the most receptive to the idea that the MSM is an active participant in the actual 9/11 event, not just in shaping the aftermath.
I believe visitors to this site are well aware of the profound conditioning media has had on the Western psyche, to its enormous detriment. Is it really such a stretch of the imagination that the MSM actually deceived the world so blatantly on 9/11? Is not chutzpah a character trait? Seen any columns debating the gas-chambers in the newspaper? And yet there are witnesses who’ll swear they saw them, and be believed. Surely if that distortion can be made to survive for all these years, 9/11 fakery is not unimaginable.
I got interested in the no-planes idea when I watched Missing Links, one of the few 9/11 films that deals with the Jewish/Israeli connection to the 9/11 attacks. They canvassed a number of theories, no-planes included, without espousing any one in particular. Wise move, as I thought the idea of media collusion preposterous, at least at first glance. Such a wild theory included in an otherwise commendable documentary got me interested, however, to spend a little time and think about it.
Arabs-trainees in planes is just risible when you think it through calmly, or read about how complicated the mission would be for even an ace. http://goo.gl/hkVun http://goo.gl/JIimg
But it’s not just Arab junior pilots but the whole passenger plane logistics that don’t make sense. Images of planes that even the “amateur” photographers admit look like effects from a B-movie.
I also have problems with the thermite camp.
First, because the self-appointed leaders of this camp refuse to countenance anything outside their pet theory, supposedly because it would discredit the “movement” and hinder any serious investigation. This strikes me as extremely naïve, or even sinister. No official investigation/legal action or civil movement is ever going to get redress through the orthodox channels. I mean, sure the Tribe would throw Bush/Cheney and Myers under the bus in a flash, except that the Presidency would suffer perhaps a permanent credibility blow and the system itself would be in grave danger of implosion. This will not be allowed to happen.
Second, because the thermite theory doesn’t fit the picture. Cars on fire, surrounded by paper not burnt. Hundreds of thousands of tons of steel vaporized (what sort of energy would that involve?). Epidemiology studies are already showing what strange damage was done to rescue workers’ lungs by exposure to the aerosolized material. And bear in mind that mesothelioma has an extremely long incubation period, so it’s not asbestos liberated the cause of the damage. Pataki and Giuliani, crooks from way back, got behind the “intense heat” story straight away, another reason to be suspicious of the thermite thesis.
I enjoyed The New Hiroshima for the questions raised. I don’t know what means were used for the damage, except that they were military in sophistication. I think 9/11 was correctly understood by other major powers as the launch of some new destructive device, much as the nuclear bombs were dropped in Japan for Stalin’s benefit, and the public sold the eyewash about saving lives by not invading. The message might have been something like keep buying our T-Bonds and don’t mess with us unless you want this visited on one of your landmarks.
@ Lew 10/30/11- 11:17 am: ” The ideal scenario from the standpoint of white intrests would be for the twin beasts of Islam and Judaism to destroy each other.” Google: Albert Pike Three World Wars.
@Trenchant: You don’t have the slightest interest in 911 or any alternate theories. If you were interested in, and seriously believed in, any of these other ideas, you would have done the minimum due diligence, which would immediately throw out 90% of the links you post. The other 10% would take a few minutes longer.
You have no interest in the substance of the issue whatsoever. It’s just a game for you to mock the American dead.
@ Ciaran: “Jews, for their vaunted Highest IQ, and take-over, and attendant wreckage of Western Civ, aren’t so smart after all.”
True! Satan is also very clever but as Rene Guenon pointed out in his Reign of Quantity, albeit in a different contex, there is such a thing called “the stupidity of the Devil”.
What needs demolishment is the official story. The official story is- planes did it. WTC7 was not hit by a plane. End of official story.
Discussions of planes is a giant rabbit hole diversion. These can be avoided by steering the discussion to Building 7. Most folks don’t know about the third building- education starts there “What??? I never heard of the the third. . .was there a third plane?” “No, absolutely not1″ “Well then how did the building come down?” “The overwhelming evidence is controlled demoltion. We don’t know all the details, but we DO KNOW IT WAS NOT DUE TO AN AIRCRAFT.”
Busting the official story is the order of business. The royal road is 7. Start with the ABSENCE of planes there, rather than their presence at WTCs 1/2.
All this stuff about jet fuel temps, aircraft structure, hijackings, arabs, building design can be easily AVOIDED by starting with #7.
What brought down 7 (and the others)? WE DON’T HAVE TO KNOW, EXCEPT IT WAS NOT AN AIRPLANE. Maybe thermate, maybe mini-nuke, maybe EMP (electro-magnetic pulse, maybe a new monster weapon. It did involve lots of heat, shown by molten metals weeks later. Perhaps more than one type of device was used.
The key is not what happened exactly, but what DIDN’T happen- NO PLANE HIT BUILDING SEVEN SO THE GOVERNMENT IS LYING.
I doubt they would try to bring down 7 without first having the public believe that a plane had hit. If the public didn’t think that, then how could they talk their way out of it? The afternoon of 9/11 must have been a nightmare for some. Where is the plane- the third plane? (Or where are the fake TV images?) Anxiety- if the building comes down without the cover story- what do we say? But if we choose to not “pull it” HOW DO WE EXPLAIN THE PRE- PLANTED EXPLOSIVE DEVICES (or whatever they were)?? I think it was fear that the destructive devices would be discovered that led to “We pulled it.”
@TabuLa Raza:
Exactly.
What organized Jewry fears most is that its deceptions be exposed before its Orwellian hegemony is irreversible. Exposure of the truth about organized Jewry’s involvement in 9/11, the anthrax attacks, and the London 7/7 attacks, especially in the setting of the coming financial collapse engineered by Jewish financiers, may be one of the last opportunities to liberate the West from Jewry’s fatal embrace.
And if the West succumbs there is little to stop organized Jewry from completing its plan to annihilate human biological and psychological diversity (excepting its own) and so maintain its hegemony indefinitely, as its bloody scriptures promise.
Study, think for yourself, and talk to your family and friends.
Whom the Gods would destroy, they first make mad.
@TabuLa Raza:
Yeah, WTC 7 is a mystery to me, too. Visibly, it’s destruction is so different to that of the twins, that something else must have been used. And while we’re on anomalies not attributable to flying Muslims in steel-cutting aluminium, building # 6, too, exploded without any “plane”.
http://www.911studies.com/911photostudies118.htm
I don’t buy the bit about intense heat lasting for weeks, however. Was Hiroshima hot for weeks? No. I think the heat thing is pure spin. Metal in the wreckage of towers I and II appears to be red-hot, granted, and yet hydraulic equipment is seen working with it, a clear impossibility with the operating temperatures governing hydraulic equipment usage. Firemen had steel toe-caps on their boots melting, but no burnt feet. Go figure!
Oh, one other thing on the psy-op that seems to have taken in Jason Speaks and Abe Goldstein. When their passenger plane is coming in at 500mph (!), it would be leaving enormous wake vortices apparent in the smoke immediately following the “impact”. That there is no such effect is yet another reason to imagine the explosions are coming from something else – missile, bomb?
http://www.911studies.com/911photostudies111.htm
@TabuLa Raza:
I doubt they would try to bring down 7 without first having the public believe that a plane had hit. If the public didn’t think that, then how could they talk their way out of it? The afternoon of 9/11 must have been a nightmare for some. Where is the plane- the third plane? (Or where are the fake TV images?) Anxiety- if the building comes down without the cover story- what do we say? But if we choose to not “pull it” HOW DO WE EXPLAIN THE PRE- PLANTED EXPLOSIVE DEVICES (or whatever they were)?? I think it was fear that the destructive devices would be discovered that led to “We pulled it.”
I do think that something went terribly wrong with the plan so that they just had to ” pull ” building 7 .
Now , you would think that everyone would be questioning 911 with a very large building having inexplicably fallen down all by itself . But no , there are those who actually scold people for raising questions about 911 .
It’s to believe there are people like JS , unless these people have some covert agenda .
@John hearns:
It’s difficult to believe there are people like JS , unless these people have some covert agenda .
@Abe Goldstein:
John hearns: I’ll accept that you are gracious in defeat.
I guess we need to build a mock up of the tower and remote control a plane into it to prove it could penetrate it and create thermite, and the losers would have to leave the country in shame.
ok , how about we don’t and just say that we did ?
Let’s just say that you win because you have made such stupid points that I give up if you will promise to stop being so stupid .
@Dr. Faust:
Seen The Ripple Effect on the London subway bombings? Can we agree that the MSM is unreliable on these events, even if we aren’t in sympathy as to the extent of its complicity?
The most damning bit of evidence is what is missing from the 911 Commission report- no mention of the collapse of Building 7. An error of Commission and Omission.
>>>>More than eight years after the tragedy of September 11, 2001, New York Supreme Court Justice Edward H. Lehner was hearing arguments in a courtroom less than a mile from Ground Zero about a ballot initiative to launch a new investigation of the 9/11 attacks. When the lawyer for the plaintiffs sponsoring the initiative explained that the 9/11 Commission report left many unanswered questions, including “Why did Building 7 come down,” the Judge replied quizzically, “Building what?”
Like Judge Lehner, millions of people do not know or remember only vaguely that a third tower called World Trade Center Building 7 also collapsed on September 11, 2001. In any other situation, the complete, free fall collapse of a 47-story skyscraper would be played over and over on the news. It would be discussed for years to come and building design codes would be completely rewritten. So, why does no one know about Building 7? And what made Building 7 come down?
The answers to these questions have far-reaching implications for our society. The goal of the “BuildingWhat?” campaign is to raise awareness of Building 7 so that together we can begin to address these questions.
http://www.disinfo.com/tag/wtc-7/
@pessimist: Yes, Pessimist, the neocons are indeed delusional – and stupid. Living proof that a lot of Jews don’t have high IQs.
@TabuLa Raza:
Destruction of buildings #7, 6, 5, & 4 (gold bullion depository, another interesting story) demand explanations better than the ones proffered by the authorities.
@ Trenchant
Rick Leventhal of FAUX NEWS reporting on 9-11 from the vicinity of WTC had a passing ‘witness’ (who the hell @ this point knows how many federal plants were assigned to pop up before a live camera ?) tell him in Spanish-accented English: ‘There was no plane. That was a bomb.’
Leventhal’s reaction was sort of – HUH ?!?
If you are willing to poke around a bit, it should be on U-Tube.
@Jarvis Dingle-Daden:
Seen it. The unsolicited comment “Bomb, not plane!” was just ignored as an hostile witness! That’s what I mean about shaping the story.
Promote plane witnesses and ignore those who express anything to the contrary.
@Jarvis Dingle-Daden:
Note that Leventhal, questioned by the witness as to who told him it was a plane, responds: “That’s what we were told… a second plane…we saw it on television!”
This interview was never replayed on television again.
The 9/11 cult is starting to bear a certain resemblance to another semi-institutionalized one, that of the holocaust. Less about the victims, and more about maximizing a political agenda, using the event as a fulcrum.
http://www.911memorial.org/
For what it is worth,see Youtube:”9/11 south tower strike – plane size, shape and frame rate”, for a video with clearly “doctored” images of the second plane that seems to fly in front of ropes hanging from a crane in the foreground. This is of course impossible.The scene is also shown in slow motion.If this video is really taken from a news broadcast on TV it proves deception.
The Obama campaign promise to take many of the troops out of Iraq, will remove his Press support unless Obama can swear fealty to the Neocons that he will attack Iran, or endorse an attack by our best friends in the ME, after the election. The bottom line, of course, is his career.
@Franklin Ryckaert: Thanks for that video. Interesting, too, how dark the “plane” is, when it’s shot in broad sunlight. Note also that there is no wake vortex in the smoke following the explosion. At airports, flights have to be staggered because of the turbulence created by a large aircraft.
9/11 was a military/intelligence operation with MSM integration at some level.
@John hearns: You and your goy buddy Trenchant are so scientifically lacking I’m truly foolish to attempt to reason with you. It is like explaining calculus to a inner city under achiever. My humble apologies, and don’t hurt your back digging your ditches manana, amigo.
@Abe Goldstein:
Still waiting for you to explain how steel was transformed to iron, not vice versa, in the explosions. Or do you wish to retract your comment about iron?
@Trenchant: Steel is made from pig iron.
In a different kind of furnace that works very fast, (modern ones run on electricity), the pig iron is melted and some kinds of stuff that are part of the pig iron, called silica, phosphorous (say foss-for-us) and sulphur (say sull-fer) are removed. If silica, phosphorous and sulphur are left in they make steel weak.
The liquid steel cools as bars or rods and is later rolled and flattened into sheets for building ships, machinery and cans or made into steel girders for building skyscrapers and bridges.
Trenchant – the above is from a kiddie website, so it will be easier for you to understand. Steel contains iron – when you reduce the carbon the iron based material is called steel. Steel is basically an alloy of iron and carbon with a small percentage of other metals such as nickel, chromium, aluminum, cobalt, molybdenum, tungsten etc. Steel is a hard ductile and malleable solid and is probably the most solid material after plastic and iron.
I don’t know if you are just playing dumb or not. Steel is not transformed to iron – it is made of iron. If I were having this argument with you in a bar, we would get in a fight. i can’t use all the adjectives I would like to describe you because this response would not be posted. U R dum!
as usual the jew had the final word. actually they have the first too in history but goldstein’s having to resort to calling someone dum is a dead giveaway of his ethnicity! that ethnicity betrays the fact that smear is their only weapon; they just can’t deal with academic discourse otherwise known as TRUTH.
@Abe Goldstein:
Yes, I do know what steel is, thank you. What you were asked to demonstrate is how the iron is liberated from the steel by some jet-fuel or gravity-fed process. So far it’s just obfuscation.
Just to refresh your memory, here’s what you claimed:
“So airplane aluminum and building structure iron, with heat applied…”.
@maryam fritsch:
Mr. Goldstein made the impression to be a “good Jew” even when it comes to criticizing Jews for immoral behaviour.We don’t aver that all Jews are immoral,but we are well aware of the fact that most Jews protect each other even if they are clearly immoral.That makes the many complicit with the few.I had the impression that Mr.Goldstein would not show this typical Jewish behaviour but he disappoints.When on october 31,2011-6:39 pm he still said:
,after having done some research he came to the conclusion that the thermite found in the rubble could have been created by the collusion of the aluminium plane with the steel of the building and he exclaimed:
.This shows clearly that he is motivated by the typical Jewish inclination to protect each other even when a serious crime has been committed (the notorious law of “mesira”).Mr.Goldstein knows very well that if 9/11 was an “inside job” not only the Mossad but many American Jews as well would have been involved.That is why he clings so much to his pet thermite theory,which – even when right – could at most explain the explosion of a few but never of all floors of the WTC buildings.
I am afraid I have to remove Mr.Goldstein’s name from my list of “good Jews” (which is rather short anyway).
Dr Alan Sabrosky claims Israel/Mossad was behind 9/11:
http://revolutionarypolitics.tv/video/viewVideo.php?video_id=15740
Alan N. Sabrosky, PhD – Former Director of Studies, Strategic Studies Institute and holder of the General of the Army Douglas MacArthur Chair of Research, U.S. Army War College. A Marine Corps Vietnam veteran with 10 years of service. Graduate of the U.S. Army War College. Teaching and research appointments have included the United States Military Academy, the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS), Middlebury College and Catholic University. While in government service, he held concurrent adjunct professorships at Georgetown University and the Johns Hopkins University School of Advanced International Studies (SAIS). Writer and consultant specializing in national and international security affairs, lecturing widely on defense and foreign affairs in the United States and abroad. His published work includes thirteen books or monographs and over one hundred forty articles, chapters and book reviews.
http://incogman.net/09/2011/the-dirty-rotten-zionist-jews-did-911/
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://incogman.net/09/2011/the-dirty-rotten-zionist-jews-did-911/
“. . .the thermite found in the rubble could have been created by the collusion of the aluminium plane with the steel of the building. . .”
I was drinking a soft drink but the can was on the table so I didn’t have anything to spit out.
Goldstein has claimed that he is white. That proves that he is no longer a joo.
I wonder if he received a dna transplant? How come he doesn’t claim to be Aryan?
@TabuLa Raza:
“. . .the thermite found in the rubble could have been created by the collusion of the aluminium plane with the steel of the building. . .”
I was drinking a soft drink but the can was on the table so I didn’t have anything to spit out.
Yeah and that’s a good thing because you may have spit out with such a tremendous force that it would turn steel to iron ( or possibly knocked down a large building ) .
@Abe Goldstein:
@John hearns: You and your goy buddy Trenchant are so scientifically lacking I’m truly foolish to attempt to reason with you. It is like explaining calculus to a inner city under achiever. My humble apologies, and don’t hurt your back digging your ditches manana, amigo.
ahh abe , this post just plain sucked .
I prefer your stupid ” science ” posts to your stupid attack posts.
@Franklin Ryckaert
I am afraid I have to remove Mr.Goldstein’s name from my list of “good Jews”
No such thing as a good Jew.. They don’t exist..