Interview with Viktor Orban: “A majority of European leaders have lost their faith in what made Europe great”

Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban

Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, 4th March 2012.

In conversation with Viktor Orbán

“There is a hidden Europe”

“Nations without character and ambitions will not be able to make the European Community great”: Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orbán on national pride, Christianity, German greatness and Hungary in the eye of world politics

Translated by Peter Stuyvesant, with Tom Sunic. See also Styvesant’s “Encouraging Developments in Hungary.”

Mr. Prime Minister, you are being criticized by the EU institutions in Brussels like no other head of government. We will discuss this later. But first we are interested in how you see the state of affairs in Europe.

I have a mind map before me. And what I see there fills me with extraordinary worries. When I look at the development of the world in the next twenty years, I see on this map an ever weakerEurope. We are continually losing importance, and we are declining in numbers in comparison to the total world population and also in comparison to the earlier Europe. Our share in world trade and the global GDP continues to decline. In our European democracy and our economic and social system more and more people lose their European self-confidence, because they see that those who set up their economy and society differently than we do are more successful in ever growing numbers than we are.

Why is that?

I have this feeling that a majority of European leaders have lost their faith in what made Europe great and into an influential factor in the world. Moreover, it seems as if it would be something shameful or something forbidden to talk about this issue. We can not help to see that those who are coming up now, stand firm for their spiritual identity: the Islamic peoples to Islam, the Asian peoples to Asian traditions and their spiritual system. It’s not just about God, but also about the culture that was influenced by their traditional beliefs. We on the other hand reject the power that comes from the fact that this is the world of Christian culture. The successful ones make sure that there is no future without children and family.

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You believe Europe denies its origins?

We perceive it as praiseworthy if we talk about the traditional ways of life, it is something that is already out of fashion or long forgotten. I have this feeling that for the sake of the debate over culture and political correctness we no longer speak about the topics that are necessary so that we can continue to exist as a crucial civilization. There is something that I call a hidden or a secretEurope. This part is seldom discussed as a topic in public. And this does not coincide  with the European claim, to become again a determining mindset, culture and political direction.

You look for support in religion, nation and family. Has progress not been moving in a different direction? Away from the nation, away from family, away from religion?

This is one of the reasons for my gauntlet. There is in fact an interpretation of European history, the European future, in which we march from the religiosity to the secularization of religion, from the traditional family model to the direction of different family models, and from the nations toward internationalism or cultural integration. What I have in mind is clearly going in the other direction. The contentious point is what is forwards and what is backwards. I contest that what is expressed in the Hungarian Constitution is being interpreted as something which belongs to the past. Because when I look at the world map, then the things about which I speak are those which can provide a solution to the shrinking European influence in the world.

The EU Charter of Fundamental Rights stipulates that human dignity is inviolable. It encompasses all the achievements of European law. After all, this is all the offshoot of our Western Christian tradition. How come this is not enough for you?

That’s all wonderful and good. We respect each other, and for the conduct of business a certain constitutional framework must not be contested. But where is life? I do not miss it in European documents, but in the culture of everyday life. Sometimes it flares up, I do not want to deny that. Then this triggers a lot of discussion. For example, when Sarkozy went on stage I felt a sparkle of De Gaulle, this glory, and you don’t have to be a Frenchman to have the feeling that there is a serious matter at hand. Or when I saw a sea of ​​German flags for an international football for the first time in a long time — with the message: We are the Germans and we will prevail because we are the strongest. One doesn’t have to have fear, because you can see: something serious is developing inGermany. Or if the Poles say: We Poles have such a strong country that the European decision-makers can’t ignore us. There is a will, there is energy, there is a pending claim.

How can a European spirit specifically grow out of nationalisms?

I would not like to see that these statements would be used to oppose the European Union and its integration. I would like if in Brusselsand elsewhere one would not react as if European integration is under threat by this. Nations without character and ambitions are not able to make the European Community great. As a European I welcome these occasional flare-ups.

Europe has merged together, because their nations have relinquished some of their sovereignty. That was a lesson of both world wars, today it is a requirement for globalization. Do you think the states that became sovereign only after 1989, can resist it?

I do not know if my reply will be something for which I will be scolded inGermany. But since you mention the story: the world wars can be seen as wars between nations. However, I fear that the tragedy is greater. It was the internal civil war of our civilization. That civilization has been so wounded, that it could bring about our downfall. The demographic effect is clear, the consequences of the economic devastation are clear. After the Second World War, Europeans have been deprived of the means to shape their own future, both in the east and west. What befell us Europeans in the 20th century, was a civil war within Christianity. Dear God has created every individual after his own image. Therefore, we should not be allowed to destroy each other. This is the source of the European spirit. Accordingly, Schuman said after the Second World War, that Europe must either be Christian or it won’t exist.

The EU Commission believes that the Constitution that you have adopted with your two-thirds majority in the parliament violates basic values ​​of the Union: against the independence of the judiciary, against the right of expression and press freedom, against the fair treatment of the opposition. These are serious allegations.

The whole matter is trivial. Hungary has to face up to objections against five to eight laws that have been passed. Together with those from last year, there are fewer than 50 individual cases in which we are engaged in discussion with the [European] Commission. The Germans have almost 100 cases in disagreement with the Commission, the French have even more cases. Are they now less European than we are? Of course not. As long as we can keep the discussion in this context, there are no problems. Such discussions are commonplace in the EU. But some argue that we have violated the European spirit. They say it could be true that the solutions in Hungary are legally acceptable, but they are nevertheless contrary to the European spirit. What should I do with such an opinion? I am elected, the Hungarian government was elected, the European Parliament was also elected. But who has elected the European Commission? Where is their democratic legitimacy? And to whom is the European Parliament accountable? These are very serious problems facing the new European architecture

What the Commission objects to is also bemoaned by many Hungarians.

What happened in Hungary in 2010? The left has collapsed. The Liberals are no longer in Parliament. What happens now? The international left tries — it does not make me happy, but it is understandable — to rebuild the Hungarian left. It is not possible from the inside, because there are only ruins, so they do it from the outside, not only from the rest of Europe but also from America. Foundations and left-wing people who want to formulate a leftist alternative in Hungary are being funded. Therefore we are attacked by the international radical left. But the international right, which, however, sometimes feels quite uncomfortable, is protecting us.

The approval of your party has waned considerably since the elections in April 2010. Many people were protesting in the streets against you.

There have been two mid-term elections since the last parliamentary election. We have won both overwhelmingly. If you compare what I have implemented in structural reforms in Hungary — I have reformed and changed everything, education, healthcare, social services — we did much better than I could have ever imagined. Those who gather on the street have my full appreciation, my respect. Sometimes it can be tens of thousands. But compared to the meetings of the right, these are trivial events. March 15th, a national holiday, is coming. The fact that we will successfully mobilize our supporters is beyond any doubt. This is a liberating experience for the supporters of the Hungarian right.

Your country is very polarized. Why do you steer towards this polarization, why do you want to destroy the Left?

I would like to book the destruction of the left as my own success. But that goes only partly to my credit. The current Hungarian opposition, which formed the government in the eight years before me, committed suicide. It was not murdered, the knife was not in my hands. The voters cast the ballots at the polls. Politics is like a phoenix from the ashes — it can be resurrected.

What is the social cause of the struggle between the right and the left?

In Hungary, a rather ruthless part of big business has been a part of the parties, mainly the socialists. The last three prime ministers of the socialists were the richest men in the country, and there was an alliance created between big business and the poorest people. The state was in the grip of big business. With social assistance, with an early retirement, with disability benefits, with the connivance of tax evasion, a mass of people was created that was propped up by the state. Thus the middle-class began to flex its muscle. When I won the 2010 election, the social situation in Hungary was such that more people lived off the state than from wages obtained from work. Hungary had slipped into a tragic endgame, because we have ten million people, of whom only 3.7 million worked in 2010 and only 2.6 million paid taxes. When I was voted out of office in 2002, the national debt was 52% [of GDP]. When I returned, it was more than 80 percent. A man, a company, a country who is in debt is not free, I think. In this sense, the Hungarians are not free and Hungary is not a free country.

And Europe? Is Europe free?

The Germans are still our hope. Because the Germans are the only ones who have an economy that is able to provide fantastic results, and that’s why they are excused when they sink the government debt below 80% — perhaps even to  60%. We have a bit of confidence that we could also do it, but the way others cope with it, offers little hope. The Germans have a natural instinct, and we have a two-thirds majority in the parliament. As long as we have this, we can start the economic recovery.

In Greek newspapers, the [German] Chancellor is shown with a swastika. Don’t you fear German dominance in Europe?

The Germans are very careful when it comes to taking the leading role. We know the history. The French will never accept it, the British immediately respond with their usual reflexes. Among the Central Europeans there is nervousness — they could be trapped again between Germans and Russians. But Germany has a destiny, and one can not choose his destiny. I’ve always seen Germany as too small to really dominate Europe but too big to take away the concerns of others, which Germany would not desire. This is  Germany’s  destiny. If Germany is using its power for good, then we must put aside our concerns and create an alliance, a partner relationship.

Who has influenced your positive image of Germany?

I’ve learned much from the older generation of German politicians. I will never forget how I once visited Graf Lambsdorff in his office in Bonn. We talked all afternoon. He sat behind his desk, and behind him hung a huge portrait of Bismarck. I said to him: I come to the Chairman of the Liberal International, and there is a portrait of Bismarck! He clarified this. It was a lesson on how Bismarck and German history are to be considered, and why a German liberal can hang up such a picture in the 1990s. When I became Prime Minister for the first time in 1998, I asked Kohl for an unofficial meeting, and it was a very long conversation in his office in the Chancellery. Kohl told me that the Rhine and Danube are synonymous with Europe. As long as the Danube region is not an integral part of Europe, there can be no unity. He argued at length that we young people need to understand this, for he himself had seen the other Europe. If there is no EU and the Euro, then there will be no peace.

Have you learnt something new about Hungary and the Hungarian people from your prominent position?

I have found a lot more strength and willingness for change than I suspected. We Hungarians have a very critical opinion of ourselves.  It is legendary that we cannot agree among ourselves, going even back to the tribal times — this was the case. But now that there are big problems, not only at home, but also for Europe as a whole; a sense has developed of now or never. Today there is a lot less hate in Hungarian society than there used to be. We Hungarians blame ourselves that we always only see the bad side. But today, many set it as a personal goal to keep up the hope of a happy ending. Not only on the right but also on the left. How the Hungarians have responded to the attacks from abroad was amazing. We are a hot-blooded nation. And we always formulate exaggerations, for which the Hungarian language is very suitable. But now the opposite has been achieved. They say: There are problems in Hungary and errors, but we also face unfairness. But we are also a nation that has its  dignity. The people are united, they cannot talk about us and with us as this is done in the European Parliament, by the left and the liberals. And the people have expressed their aversion so gracefully. I would never have thought that we were capable of doing this. The lesson from this is that politicians sometimes underestimate their own nation. From this one can draw strength.

There is a solid expectation of the EU Commission that your government will bring forward some legislative changes in the coming weeks. When you were in the European Parliament earlier this year, you have proven be willing to talk. Are you ready to come to terms with Brussels?

I have not only shown willingness to negotiate; we have also negotiated, both my ministers and myself. We have sent the Commission the draft legislative changes. Now we are waiting for their reply. Then it will become clear which issues there are solutions for and which there are not. And then we continue the negotiations.

The interview with the Hungarian Prime Minister was conducted by Thomas Gutschker, Friederike Haupt, Georg Paul Hefty and Volker Zastrow.

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143 Comments to "Interview with Viktor Orban: “A majority of European leaders have lost their faith in what made Europe great”"

  1. April 14, 2012 - 3:47 pm | Permalink

    On April 4, just before Jewish Passover holiday, MP Zsolt Barath, member of Hungary’s second largest opposition party – the nationalist Jobbik Party – reminded his fellow parliamentarians of a historical event of national importance which happened 130 years ago. He claimed that the Jews who were accused of kidnapping and murdering a 14-year-old Hungarian Christian girl, Esther Solymosi, from the village of Tiszaeszlar, were found innocent only because the judge worried that international bankers would push Hungary into bankruptcy if the Jews were convicted.

    The 1882-83 murder trail of Tiszaeszlar involved the disappearance of 14-year-old Esther Solymosi who was last seen nearby the local Synagogue. The two sons of the Synagogue-servant Josef Scharf accused their father and stated that Esther was lead into the Synogogue and butchered there. The corpse of the girl was never found. 13 Jews were put on trail but all were acquitted by a judge.

    Jews have always refuted the ‘Blood Libel’ accusations. However, recently a Jewish scholar Dr. Ariel Toaff (son of a Rabbi), in his book Bloody Passovers claimed that the centuries-old Christians’ Blood Libel was true. The revelation angered the Jewish groups so much that Israeli lawmakers demaded Israeli government to jail Dr. Toaff for his anti-Semitic rant.

    Several Jewish groups have demanded Zsolt Barath’s resignation.

    In December 2011, the deputy speaker of parliament and member of Jobbik, Zoltan Balczo, lead a protest in front of the US embassy to express solidarity with the Islamic Republic. He accused Israel of dictating Obama administration, saying “the tail should not wag the dog“. Another speaker at the protest, Rev. Lorant Hegedus, said that “Jews control the global media and Jews were responsible for WW II“.

    Marton Gyongyosi, deputy leader of Jobbik Party in an interview with British Israel lobby mouthpiece, the Jewish Chronicle, published February 2, said that Israelis are treating Palestinians like Nazis treated Jews. He also claimed that the story that 400,000 Jews were killed or deported from Hungary is a big lie. Gyongyosi also told Jewish Chronicle that the conflicts in the Middle East are created by the US and Israel.

    “Iran is an extremely peaceful country and never started a war, unlike Israel which has declared wars on anything and everybody around it,” said Gyongyosi.

    In October 2011 – Jobbik’s leader Gabor Vona along with Budapest Mayor Istvan Tarlos (member of ruling praty Fidesz) hosted a trade delegation from Iran to boost trade and cultural relations between the two countries. Hungary exports poultry and greenhouse vegetables to Iran and imports Iranian dried fruits, pistachios, and saffron. During the meeting Vona also declared the twinning of Tiszavasvári with the Iranian city, Ardabil.

    Abraham Foxman, national director of powerful Israel lobby group, Anti-Defamation League, has not only blasted MP Zsolt Barath – but has also claimed that anti-Semitism is very high in Hungary – because “three out of four Hungarians believe Jews has too much power in international finance markets and 38% Hungarians believe that Jews are responsible for the death of Christ“.

  2. Sindbad's Gravatar Sindbad
    April 9, 2012 - 3:00 pm | Permalink

    @The Admiral On Horseback:
    None of my posts was made or intended for the sake of some ghosts long buried before our births. In this aspect I totally agree with you: we express some historical points of view, wich cannot have at least a subjective part. And nothing more then that.

    1)Regarding John Huniady ascendency I didn’t see his birth certificate and I didn’t know his father so I cannot affirm 100% sure that he was romanian. But almost all sources speaks about his father as been romanian (vlach). His grandfather name was Serb(an) wich is a Romanian name. One of his brothers was named Radu (also a Romanian name of Slavic origin). The name is not as important because depends on the context and very often not on the ethnic reality ( ex: Shaquille O’Neal is not an irishman as it sounds). But Hateg county were John was born is a mountains area wich was and is 100% romanian (one of the least unmixed of all country). John Huniady’s face (as seen in old paintings) remembers me that of typical villagers living today in all southern arch of Carpaths (north and southern slopse alike). Regarding John’s mother as I searched primary sources confirm that her father (maternal grandfather of John) was a lesser noble romanian catholic (nothing about his maternal groundmother).That’s why I say that very probable John Huniady’s was of romanian origin. Anyway I doubt that if he hadn’t enter the ranks of king Sigismund he would had have the path of such glorious career.

    2)It’s possible that some nomads had become noble families in Wallachia or Tara Romaneasca but in a verry little degree, the vast majority were autochtonic.

    3) It is true that none measured how many romanian assimilated. But we can presume that almost all wich converted to catholicism since in Transylvania are very little catholic romanians (not greco-catholic wich are a different story). Anyway some numbered 2000 magyar words of romanian origin (here is the link: ). If is it true is an argument of the dimension of assimilation.

    4)Ok, I wasn’t very specific. Some battles (taken aleatory) wich I see as great battles from Middle Ages till XX century, (my own point of view): 732 Battle of Poitiers (yes franks could fight very well but let’s not forget that they were still germanic and not frenchmens eating croissants as later); 1066 Hastings; 1099 Jerusalem; 1362 Battle of Blue Waters; 1525 Pavia; 1571 Lepanto; 1683 Vienna; 1792 Valmy; 1805 Traflagar; 1812 Mosow; 1870 Sedan. As you see is not really important the numbers of troops involved as the way this battles shaped countries, nations and empires.

    5) Northern Serbia with key of Belgrad had an offensiv importance for turks against Central Europe. From that they launched their atacks against Buda and Vienna. As a result for hungarians and austrians it had an exceptional defensiv importance (that’s why John Huniady’s had so many battles for keeping Belgrade and died there in 1456). As long as Belgrad was out of control, turks were restricted to Balkans. However Serbia wasn’t important as a base against Ottoman Empire. Nobody attacked turks and Istanbul that why. On a map is easy to see why: after mountains of central and south Serbia, are mountains of Macedonia and Albania. Distance to long, terrain to rough. Even today if you take your car to Istanbul you woudn’t go from Budapesta to Skopje and then east to Captain Andreev. With Romania is quite the opposite: an mediocre offensive base but exceptionaly deffensiv. Roman Empire made Dacia their land because only this they can defend Balkans and Greece. From here goths and huns attacked first Roman Empire; from here slavs entered Balkans; from here russians headed Constantinopol. Is the natural gate from north and north east to south.
    Regarding resources: grains, wood, sheeps and wool were the most important. The Romanian countries were in proximity of Istanbul and the great supply store of excelent quality for Istanbul, for Edirne and Izmir as well. Grains from Egypt, wood of south east Black Sea and sheeps from Crimeea and others were to far away. ( I know it was only aleatory an example – Greece with all my simpaty let’s be serious: except of olive oil, tzatziki and troublemakers Greece didn’t give anything else).

    6) All countries were opportunistic in some moments of their history. Some in few, others in more times. But it seems to me that Hungary was oportunistic (seizing favorable oportunities before even their arise and not any other meaning) most of the time. There is an explination but I’m on slippery ground, talking about something I don’t know and I only insight.If I’m wrong correct me: Hungary has no relatives and unlike Finland is not situated in some corner, but in the middle of the continent. There are no mountains, dense forests, marshes or a sea where you can have your back hold. Also you are not a numerous nation. So if you miss only one target, you’ll be very much in the air because seldom you’ll have a second shot. And for that you must be awaken and see chances and dangers before they materialize. Don’t understand me wrong but oportunism is a attribute wich I see vital for you.

    7) Regarding our swings in war (wich you know quite well) is a fascinating example of what means imposture when you are in charge. We had a great politician, the forreign affairs head Nicolae Titulescu. He thought that the best for Romania was an alliance with France (a skeleton covered in silk in that moment) and a treaty with Soviet Union ( the most righteous state ruled by the most saintly man, Josef Stalin). By the way Soviet Union never stopped to claim our lands in interwar. King was Carol II, a lunatic sex addict (and his beloved mistress was a jewish whore). The two men make some sort of alliances with France, vain as the french. The alliances vaporized in june 1940 all together with french army. After that, with no allies, honor or balls Carol II abdicated but not before he signed the most shameful treaties despite the open oposition of the nation and the army. But unfortunately we as a people, lack rebellious spirit. His place was taken by Ion Antonescu wich made the best possible move he could do (except one but I don’t blame him). However in 1944 the inept future ex king Mihai I (son of the exceptional Carol II) arrested Antonescu and change sides once again.

  3. The Admiral On Horseback's Gravatar The Admiral On Horseback
    April 6, 2012 - 2:00 pm | Permalink


    1) I didn’t say he was Cuman. I said he might have been of Cuman descent, as indeed a substantial portion of the Wallachian nobility was of nomadic descent, and we were talking about genetics, not culture. (I also find it very likely that his culture was Romanian.) His father’s name Vajk (Voyk in English) was exactly the same as the original pagan (pre-baptism) name of the first Hungarian King. I think the jury is out, it’s very likely in any case that Voyk’s father had Romanian culture (language etc.), and it’s also very likely that his son János Hunyadi was culturally Hungarian. In any event his descent was not Hungarian, at least on his father’s side (his mother was a Hungarian noblewoman called Erzsébet Morzsinay or Morsinay).

    2) Pecheneg rule lasted for well over a century, just like Cuman rule, which lasted until the Mongol invasion. It is very much likely that they got assimilated to the local culture and that many of the later Romanian nobility were descended from them. As far as I know, much of the Romanian nobility was indeed of nomadic descent, but this proportion was steadily declining (as would be expected). So indeed, it is possible that János Hunyadi was of Romanian blood. As I also explained (citing the example of the Russian Romanov Tzars), getting the descent of a king is not very important regarding the descent of the population. (And Mátyás was at least 75% Hungarian by blood, since his Mother, Erzsébet Szilágyi was 100% Hungarian noblewoman from the highest strata of the Hungarian nobility, and his paternal grandmother was also Hungarian, so only his paternal grandfather Voyk Hunyadi could have been Romanian.)

    3) If such conversions and assimilation had ever happened, they must have happened in the first centuries of the Hungarian kingdom, of which there is a general lack of written sources. You might suppose that this indeed happened, but there is a lack of evidence for that.

    4) What do you mean by “great battle”, and what do you mean by “alone”? Hungary was not independent from 1526 on until 1918, by which time we became a very small country, so there could not be too many such great battles.

    1456 has already been mentioned, 1354 (defeating the Serb despot Stephan Dusan) might be another example, shortly after which Serbia became the vassal of the Hungarian King Lajos (Louis) the Great, along with much of the Balkans (including Moldavia, Wallachia, Vidin, etc. – of course, the subjugation of all these principalities was short-lived), or several centuries later in 1849 during the spring campaign Hungarians forced the Habsburg armies out of the country in a series of battles, including the battle of Isaszeg or the battle of Komárom. In 1849 Hungarians fought alone. However, with help from the Russians we were eventually defeated during the summer. I could also mention the Battle of Gyurgyevó (Giurgiu) in 1595, when the prince of Transylvania, Zsigmond Báthory was in command (although Wallachian troops also participated), and defeated a large Turkish army. In 1604 the army of István Bocskai defeated the Habsburg army near Álmosd and Diószeg. (This was the first major anti-Habsburg revolt, which ended in a compromise in 1606.)

    5) I don’t think Romania was important as a defense against the Habsburgs, since because of the Carpathians it was very difficult to attack the Balkans through Romania, especially when it was so much easier to attack through the valley of the Danube in Serbia. Therefore, Serbia’s strategic importance was much higher (no wonder Serbia was totally subjugated), on the road to Hungary (and further up to Vienna). Central Hungary was occupied mainly because it lay on the road to Vienna, and also because the Ottomans wanted to prevent the Habsburgs from taking over the Hungarian throne. Something which was not even a remote danger in the case of Romania.

    Regarding Romania being the economically most important part of the Ottoman empire, I would like to know your sources. I know that for the Turks the most important area was the Balkan peninsula in general (until the conquest of Egypt, that is, which was the most important for much of the 16th century), but I cannot find any source saying that Romania was any richer than – say – Greece. If anything, it might have been poorer, but I have to concede I know very little of this.

    6) By your definition every country that chose Catholicism was opportunistic. Like Poland (could have chosen Orthodoxy which was the religion of neighboring Rus’), Lithuania (lying between Orthodox Russia and Catholic Poland, with most of its population in present-day Belarus and Ukraine being Orthodox), or Croatia (also between the Catholic and Orthodox world). Actually, Romanians choosing Orthodoxy might also have been opportunistic, since they lay between Rus (Orthodox), Bulgaria or Byzantium (both Orthodox), Serbia (Orthodox), and only Hungary to the northeast was Catholic. So it did make much sense. Also, it’s important to know that before 1054 the difference between Orthodox and Catholic was smaller.

    Hungarians did rebel against the Habsburgs with the intention of total independence in 1849 (we dethroned the Habsburgs) and even in 1703 (until we clearly lost the war by 1710 and the Habsburgs offered us very lenient peace terms, granting total autonomy for Hungary). Actually, even in 1604-1606 we fought for total independence, but in the end Bocskai chose to make peace with the Habsburgs, because it was clear that an independent Hungary could only exist as a vassal state of the Turks, and he (rightly) didn’t trust them at all.

    And of course, even the Poles could find accommodation with their rulers until it fit them. E.g. prince Czartorsky was member of the Russian government and he only turned against the Russians after the Russians clearly violated the Polish constitution (the reason for the repeated Hungarian revolts against the Habsburgs). The Poles only lost a substantial portion of their population against the Germans, and this was a result of the Germans’ and not of the Poles’ behavior. All these don’t make the Poles either cowards or opportunists (they were neither). (The Serbs I don’t like, but have to admit they are stubborn fighters. I also consider them to be cruel, but it’s probably better to be a fierce and cruel warrior then nice but cowardly.)

    Regarding being allied to Germany, if finding a suitable ally means opportunism, then all countries on this planet are opportunists (and so they should be). However, when the Hungarian Regent wanted to change sides in 1944, the Germans could easily organize a coup against him (meaning that most of the officer corps and general officers wanted to fight on on the side of the Germans), something which they had been unable to do two months before in Romania (they couldn’t find a single Romanian general who would have participated). So Romanians are rather more opportunistic.

    Regarding the size of the army against Bolshevism, Bulgaria did not send a single soldier (they didn’t even declare war on the USSR until in 1944 the USSR attacked them and deposed their government), so I don’t know where your number comes from. However, Romania did send more troops against Soviet Russia, but it’s somewhat understandable since they had a bigger stake in the outcome (they had territorial claims, many of which largely justified, against the USSR). But I have to admit Romania sent more troops until 1944 when it changed sides. And they also changed sides in 1940, before which they had been a French ally. I don’t think one can blame the Romanians for these, but if anybody was opportunistic here, it was probably not Hungary.

  4. The Admiral On Horseback's Gravatar The Admiral On Horseback
    April 6, 2012 - 12:24 pm | Permalink

    @Sindbad: Romanians might have inhabited the plains until the Tisza river before the Hungarians arrived (I personally don’t believe it, but let’s suppose), it’s quite immaterial regarding what happened many centuries later. Same thing regarding the Slovakians in the north. In the 15th century both ethnicities appear to have inhabited the mountainous areas only. By the 18th century a lot of previously Hungarian areas had become uninhabited after two centuries of warfare, and a lot of other ethnicities arrived. Including Germans, yours truly is also of 50% German descent. It is without doubt that present day Hungarians are genetically different from Hungarians 500 years ago. Had the immigrants who replaced parts of the semi-destroyed Hungarian population been of another race, Hungarians now wouldn’t be whites at all. So the Turkish wars had a major genetic impact, however you look at it, even if you don’t accept my contention that the ethnic boundaries changed to the disadvantage of Hungarians.

  5. The Admiral On Horseback's Gravatar The Admiral On Horseback
    April 6, 2012 - 12:09 pm | Permalink

    @Sindbad: First, let me state that the last thing I need (or indeed, Hungary needs) at this point in time is to pick some age-old fight with the Romanians over Transylvania or anything else. I think that the survival of rump Hungary is in question, I would be happy to see Hungary survive as a white nation inside its present borders. I only continue with this debate for the sake of historical accuracy, whichever way it may lead us. It is possible that because of my Hungarian education, my views might be somewhat biased, a bias which is quite natural and understandable. However, you might notice that I’m trying my best to be objective.

  6. Sindbad's Gravatar Sindbad
    April 6, 2012 - 7:24 am | Permalink

    The problem in Europe nations is not the demographic crisis. This is the effect (and a deadly one). But the cause is decadence.
    Most of our nations are tired, sicked by past succeses and forgett what that made them strong. In such times of weakness best thing is to concentrate on the interior (Like a bear who hibernate). It is a way to regenerate. But our beloved EU want’s global involvement, competition, ambition etc. It’s like putting Rod Laver to play now at Roland Garros. Preventing a hearth attack the genial EU injects in dried european veins fresh blood: afro-asiatics immigrants. Sure receipe for total catastrophe. Bad demographics (in resonable figueres) can be overturned, but what we can do when the few europeans remained are mongreals? Almost nothing. Italians and greeks experienced this sort of doom in I – V century AD. They are still european but weak nations even now. And without germanic and slavic influx now probably that weren’t italians and greeks at all. But in our times there are no more white barbarians
    The second problem and the most important is spiritual. I saw on this forum posts like: “we need the religion of nature”, “judeo-christianity (huh?something like black-white) is against our race”, aryan religions (dead horses) and “we must keep our religion and tradition like all others civilizations”. All this are simptoms of the spiritual shipwreck.
    Christianity is not a faith is THE FAITH. Christian way is not a tradition is THE HOLY TRADITION. As long as we don’t recognize this simple facts we are in deadly danger.
    All nationalistic white movments will vanished (and probable the nations) if they believe in dust in the wind. GOD has the first and the last word.
    Hitler tried, without CHRIST, to turn the tide but failed. And he was a worthy leader in charge of one of the most valuable european nations. We must not repeat that huge mistake.
    PS I put here a link with an explication of the fall of Byzantium. It’s quite simple-minded but nevertheless true

  7. Sindbad's Gravatar Sindbad
    April 6, 2012 - 6:30 am | Permalink

    @The Admiral On Horseback:
    You removed dead bodies burried very long time ago.
    In 1396 at Nicopole Price Mircea of Wallachia wich had some tactical genius (he won alone against Bayazid few years earlier) knowing turks ask the command of right flank of christians army. KIng Sigismund, commander in chief, accepted but strong voices opposed and Sigismund changed his mind. Knowing the french character probably the french noblemen were that opposition. The battle was lost. ( of course french military glory remained intact – is like alfa romeo; shinny outside, rotten and rusty on the inside)
    At Varna in 1444 there were romanian warriors but none in command.
    In 1526 I remember you two things the royal power decline in favour of the magnates and the pesanat rebellion of 1514 led by György Dózsa. You know as well as I what happened and the link to the defeat 12 years later. And there was not a hungarian single soldier who entered in Wallachia (in the first half of the XVI century all wallachian princes were in the anti-turk team and allied with Hungary).
    And how demographic crisis of XVII-XVIII century affected present demography of Hungary? Much more correct is to say that ther is not any link between them.
    About romanians who populated Transylvania starting with XVII century let’s be honest: they inhabited that lands and Tisza plain long time before Arpad passed the mountains. Same with slovaks in north and various germano-celtics in the western Hungary

  8. Sindbad's Gravatar Sindbad
    April 6, 2012 - 5:31 am | Permalink

    @The Admiral On Horseback:

    1) Hunyadi’s father was cuman? Cumans wandered in XII century and dissapeared at the end of that century. Father of Hunyadi’s was born 200 years later. Yes, now I see the connection. All historians agree that Hunyadi was romanian (the problem is very clear and not at all a controversy) but, no Huniady was of some dubios ancestry.
    2) “Wallachia had been occupied by a number of nomadic tribes, including the Pechenegs, the Oghuz Turks, the Tatars, and Cumans”. Pechenegs, tatars and cumans only passed there spending only a few years. Afther that pecheneg and cumans moved to Pannonia (more suitable for nomadic lifesyle) and southern balkans. Tatars moved to Crimeea. Oghuz Turks were known only in history books on this lands. All this asiatics never left a trace of their blood in Wallachia. But 300 years later Hunyadi wasn’t romanian he was half cuman!
    3) “Romanians were Orthodox and Hungarians Catholic/Protestant, which made both assimilation and intermarriage less likely”
    Very true. In fact interconfessional mariages were virtualy absent. But, a fraction of romanian population converted to catholicism (small figuers compared to overral romanian population, but large numbers compared with hungarian population wich was smaller) and latter assimilated with great ease in general hungarian population. As a rule hungarians build up their nation assimilating neighbors who learned hungarian and wanted to live by their tradition. Blood line had almost nothing to do with this.
    4) Refresh my memories: I didn’t find any great battle wich was won by hungarians alone from XII century till XX century.
    5) Romanian countries importance: strategical – it was the bastion against Habsburgs, Poland and later Russia. Western shore of Black sea. After them, next defence were Balkanian mountains.And after next stop were walls of Istanbul.
    Economical: the most valuable resource area of the entire Ottoman Empire. After 1821 (the break out with turks) decline of ottomans entered in full speed. Proof: russians would had easily conquered Constantinopol in 1854, 1877 if wasn’t the gross stupidity of England, France and Prussia.
    So, although romanian states were of vital importance for turks, managed to remain vassals and not subjects as others maybe more powerfull
    6) Oportunistic – taking advantage of opportunities as they arise. I did’t put any pejorativ connotation.
    Hungary was at the border of both Catholic world and Ortodox world and they choose the most earthly powerful. When Arpadian line ended hungarians did’t choose a hungarian noble as king. They choosed Carl of Anjou from west because it was more suitable. Yes, hungarians rebeled agains habsburgs but not with the purpose of becaming totaly independent (like poles agains russians or serbs against evryone).
    Hungary was the only Central European country allied with Germany in interwar (i don’t blame you I had been done the same). Nevertheless in the war against bolsheviks Hungary mobilized only 350.000 soldiers (compare with 450.000 from smaller Bulgaria).
    I didn’t saw when Hungary fight desperatly against all odds (for instance spanish, serbs, germans and poles repeatedly lost large parts of their population in such actions) or when Hungary embraced a lost cause or the weaker side. Hungary carefully calculated her steps, puting his forces no more then it must for pragmatic purpose and getting along with the next rising star. Always and with now exception. It’s a way of life and I don’t see nothing wrong in that. But the name is opportunism.

  9. The Admiral On Horseback's Gravatar The Admiral On Horseback
    April 6, 2012 - 2:45 am | Permalink

    @Marianne: Marianne, I am Hungarian. Hungary had bad demography because of the Turks and it never recovered from this disaster. Circa 1500 various estimates put the proportion of ethnic Hungarians in the total population of Hungary between 60-80%. By the 18th century it dropped to below 50%, with large parts of the country totally uninhabited. The predictable result was that other peoples moved in to these uninhabited parts. Serbs came from the south (previously they had lived there, but in much smaller numbers), Romanians from the southeast to Transylvania and beyond (again, they had lived there, mostly in the mountains, and now they started occupying the valleys in earnest), Slovakians from the north (the ethnic boundary moved a bit south, although many Slovakians moved far to the south, where, having lost all connections to the Slovakian heartland, they got absorbed and assimilated by Hungarians around them), and Germans from the west. (Again, a good deal of them were assimilated.) The end result was that by the late 18th century, the proportion of Hungarians bottomed out at maybe 35% of the total. Even with huge assimilation (imagine what that would have meant if the immigrants had been members of another race) and favorable conditions (higher natural rate of increase than for the “minorities”) this proportion barely increased above 50% by 1910. In 1918-20, with some help from Hungarian (mostly, but not exclusively Jewish) revolutionaries, Hungary lost all areas where Hungarians constituted a minority and some more. This would have been impossible, had demographic reality not been what it already was by that time.

    Demography is destiny.

    Regarding the demographic crisis of Europe in the 14th-15th centuries. Periods of wealth combining with low birth rates cannot be compared to periods of deprivation combining with high death rates: the two are totally different, because the latter has a solution (death rates don’t stay high infinitely), whereas the former has no known solution. (No country has ever dug itself out of the low fertility hole, although the Russians had some success by raising their fertility rates from 1.2 to 1.6-1.7. But below 2.1 everything is futile…) So low fertility in itself is a huge problem, but it is compounded by mass immigration, which, again, in itself would already be a huge problem. This is even worse than Hungary’s demographic crisis 1514-1711 (time of incessant warfare), from which Hungary never really recovered.

  10. Marianne's Gravatar Marianne
    April 5, 2012 - 8:54 am | Permalink

    I see too much pessimism on this forum. There is certainly no reason to express too much optimism but there is no need to plunge into excessive pessimism.

    I noticed that many people like to worry about demographics and believe that once the numbers drop too much there is no way back. Well, it looks like many people do not know history, especially European history. Quite a number of countries in Europe, both Western and Eastern went through severe demographic crises at different stages of their history and somehow they didn’t disappear. Interesting, isn’t it? One of the examples could be France in the Middle Ages, more specifically, in the 14th and the 15th centuries. The loss of the population in France was so absolutely catastrophic that the whole country was vastly depopulated. Whole villages, whole towns died out as a result of the One Hundred Years War and the plague – the so-called Black Death. The contemporaries were well aware of the depopulation of their country but they didn’t worry much about it. They either saw it as God’s punishment for human sins or as God’s or Nature’s reaction against overpopulation. Overpopulation in those times often meant famine. But that’s another matter. Be it as it may, the demographic crisis that overtook France during that time did not prevent France from becoming a great and poweful country two centuries later.

    Hungary experienced a terrible period of depopulation in the 17th century, at the time when the Turks were right on its doorsteps, when the Turks actually occupied it and this occupation lasted 140 years. Some parts of Hungary was completely empty. Thousands upon thousands of Hungarians were made into slaves and carried away to Anatolia, Middle East or western Asia. On top of all that, Hungary went through horrific civil unrests in the 16th century. There were endless uprisings of peasants and internal conflicts which were followed by several waves of plagues that decimated people like wild fire. Yet, Hungary survived as a nation. I could give many such examples.

    One of my favourite historians is Lev Goumilev, a Russian historian. In his studies of history he demonstrates that all nations go through what he calls periods of high activity and low activity. It does happen that some nations disappear but they dispappear only then when they give up their culture and not because they are small in numbers. Has anyone ever heard of the Battle of Malta in 1565? A tiny island of Malta was attacked by the Ottoman superpower and it held out. It got little help from anyone. The local Knights of Saint John and the local people were the main hero in that war. The dwarf nation of Malta was successful against the giant Ottoman entity because the Maltese had faith in God, because they believed in the legitimacy and superiority of their values and their culture.

    I agree with your position. Christianity is very important and it is not a Jewish religion at all. If anything, it is much closer to the Mosaic religion, if people know what I mean. Jews do not believe in the Mosaic tradition – the written Torah, Jews believe in Talmud. The truth is that Jews distorted the whole Mosaic tradition. I think one of the reasons why so many Americans (and not just Americans but also other Anlo-Protestants) tend to believe that there is something Jewish in Christianity is because they assumed and often still assume that Jewish belief is based on the Old Testament. It is not. The only people who follow the Old Testament are Karaites, Samaritans and Falashas (so-called Ethiopian Jews).

    More than that, it is a mistake to believe that the Jews are pure descendants of ancient Hebrews. Non-sense. Most of their ancestors came from Khazaria, a powerfull slave trading kingdom established between the Black Sea and the Caspian Sea in the early Middle Ages that was run by an aggressive Jewish aristocracy. It was eventually crashed to pieces by a coalition of Vikings, Slavs and Pechenegs.

    Talmud teaches that Jews are allowed to pray in mosques but never in churches. Talmud calls Jesus a sorcerer and his mother a whore. Jews don’t respect Christianity. For this reason I object to the use of a term “Judeo-Christianity”. This term makes no sense.

    Christianity is part of European culture – there is no Europe without Christianity. Why is Christianity attacked so much in the media, why is it ridiculed so much by all kinds of modern intellectuals, especially those subscribing to the Frankfurt School? Because Christianity is the major obstacle to the dictatorship of the corrupt Western elites and their Zionist mentors.

    Why do we know so little, indeed very little, about the Byzantines? I think the Byzantine history just as the history of Khazaria have been deliberatley suppressed for two different reasons, of course. The Byzantine Empire was one of the most civilized societies of that time with 70 percent of its inhabitants being literate. It was, above all, a Christian Empire. The Khazarian kingdom, on the other hand, was a Jewish entity terrorizing its neighbours, forcing them to pay tribute and catching their people to trade them off as slaves.

    I would also strongly recommend another book by Valdas Anelauskas: Zionism and Russia. Very very interesting. He talks about Khazars in that book. It’s available online.

  11. The Admiral On Horseback's Gravatar The Admiral On Horseback
    April 5, 2012 - 3:20 am | Permalink

    @The Admiral On Horseback: BTW, regarding Hungarians vs. Romanians against the Turks. Romanians also participated in two of the three lost “Hungarian” battles you cite, in the Battle of Nicopolis (1396 and not 1398) and in the Battle of Varna (1444). By the time of the Battle of Mohács (1526) Romanians were more or less Turkish vassals (although crucially, at the time of the battle there was a civil war in Wallachia between pro-Hungarian and pro-Ottoman forces, and some of the Hungarian troops were sent to Wallachia instead of Mohács, which contributed to the Hungarian loss).

  12. April 4, 2012 - 11:16 pm | Permalink

    @Henry Baxley: I think we are on the same page.

  13. The Admiral On Horseback's Gravatar The Admiral On Horseback
    April 4, 2012 - 6:55 pm | Permalink

    1) According to the present rules, all new members will have to meet the criteria within a short time after joining (although there are no sanctions for most of the criteria, except budget deficit), and once they meet the requirements, they have to join. No new exceptions are to be granted. However, I concede that you are right in the sense that if a country doesn’t really want to join the Eurozone, it may stay outside for a very long time, possibly indefinitely. (Hard to tell, since the only non-Eurozone EU member countries who have not been granted an exception have joined after 2004 – it was certainly possible to delay it by 8 years.)

    2) János Hunyadi’s father was a Wallachian noblemen called Vajk. Now Vajk is not a very Romanian-sounding name, the original pagan name of the first Hungarian king, Saint Steven (István) was also Vajk. It’s also suspicious that the early Romanian nobility was mostly nomadic in origin (Wallachia had been occupied by a number of nomadic tribes, including the Pechenegs, the Oghuz Turks, the Tatars, and Cumans), although by the 15th century there were a good deal of “real” Romanians among them. However, the name Vajk makes many suspect that he was in fact Cuman. But kings are not very interesting in that respect, Russian Romanov Tzars had overwhelmingly German blood in their veins, yet this means nothing regarding the mass of the Russian people. Romanians were Orthodox and Hungarians Catholic/Protestant, which made both assimilation and intermarriage less likely. At present, the portion of Orthodox believers in the Hungarian population is well below 1% (actually it’s something like 0.1%), and many of them are of Serb or Ruthenian origin. Even Greek Catholics (again, many of them are of Ruthenian and not Romanian origin) are below 3%.

    3) You make a very selective list of battles. In the Middle Ages most countries waged wars almost constantly, it was inevitable that many of the battles were lost. Of course we didn’t win all our battles and wars, but we did win many. Hungary was roughly as strong in 1500 as in 1300, so your original statement “from XII century they never excell in warfare and never had military glory” is simply not true. Romania was never directly incorporated, but the Phanariote rule was way more than simple vassalage, the Ottoman court deposing and appointing the princes of both Wallachia and Moldavia. And of course you have to consider the intentions of the Ottomans, Romania was neither strategically nor economically important enough, unlike Hungary, which lay on the way to Vienna, center of Habsburg power in the region.

    4) I don’t quite understand your definition of “opportunistic”. You dilute the meaning so much as to render it meaningless. It’s like saying “everybody’s selfish, because the really selfless are being charitable to boost their egos”.

    a) Most neighboring countries converted to Catholicism. Indeed, all Germanic tribes converted to Catholicism. Do you imply all European countries and peoples were opportunistic? Because all of them converted at one point or another, and Catholicism dominated their domains, so it must have brought many material benefits to them…

    b) So Hungarians had a great time in the Habsburg empire (we did rebel a few times, though, as already mentioned), how does that imply we were opportunistic?

    c) Yes, we were allied to Germany in the 30s and 40s (we were hardly unique in that respect in the region), but again, how does that imply we were opportunistic? We even kept fighting on the German side after the war was clearly lost!

    d) Yes, we became part of EU/NATO, like virtually all countries in the region, and like even Serbia is now intending to do… How does that imply we are opportunistic?

    So except for point 1), I think your statements are not correct. Oh, and France was a great military power, with a lot of gloire.

  14. Henry Baxley's Gravatar Henry Baxley
    April 4, 2012 - 12:33 pm | Permalink

    @Henry Baxley:
    The long term happiness and stability of married couples depends on both partners having EQUALLY VALUED (OPPOSITE) ROLES

  15. Henry Baxley's Gravatar Henry Baxley
    April 4, 2012 - 12:20 pm | Permalink


    “I’m ok with that. I just don’t see our youth putting down their smart phones long enough to buy it”

    Yes, I see what you mean, and I agree. But they suffer for their ignorance. The proof can be seen in the astonishing rise in the rate of mental illness, Debilitating addictions, the veritable death of marriage, the “incarceration nation” poverty, the list goes on.
    If young people could connect the dots that lead from their misery all the way back to the beginning of the modern (and false) God of EQUALITY they would be spitting mad I think. Be it communism, multi-culti, or whatever.
    I have often said that God is the referee in the battle of the sexes. But in modern life Big Brother has userped this role for his own nefarious purposes, and is NOT “fair and balanced” in his judgements.
    Thus, it is no longer the husband who is responsible for the family, but the government, and the child learns its “values” not in the lap of it’s mother but from a TV screen.
    A child learns to value itself and others by watching and copying the behaviour of loving parents. what does the child learn without those loving parents….
    here are some examples;
    Larry Flynt and his would be assasin Joseph Paul Franklin, Jim Jones, charles manson, Jeffery Dahmer, Ed Gein, Henry Lee Lucas, etc.

    There is one silver lining in all this degeneracy; THE BACKLASH!
    People tend to support government that has benefitted them (any government) but when people start to suffer mentally and economically they will blame WHATEVER GOVERNMENT IS IN POWER AT THE TIME!

  16. Sindbad's Gravatar Sindbad
    April 4, 2012 - 9:04 am | Permalink

    @The Admiral On Horseback:
    1.After the Eurozone criteria are fulfilled, the state enter in negotiatone to change the currency. However depends on the given state (Eg. Croatia or Poland) in what conditions (parity of the national curency/euro etc) take euro as their currency. If that state negociated at moment of joining EU not to adopt Euro then the state will remain further with his national currency. The same if that state change his mind on the process of joining Eurozone. There ARE NOT LEGAL SANCTIONS if a state doesn’t want to be part of Eurozone even when prerequestments are met. Others and more breaknecking are tools for pressuring reluctant states
    2. Yes, germans are part of the mix. About romanians: Father of King Mathias was John Hunyadi (romanian). Logothetti, Bánffy and many other renowned magyar families were of romanian origin. In X century AD the easter third of the hungarian plain was inhabited by romanized populations (mixed with some slavs). After 1866 many romanians (about 600K) assimilated and remained in today Hungary. That’s why I say it romanians are second or at least third component of hungarian nation.
    3. Hungary had a kingdom in Middle Ages and it wasn’t a small one. Yes Hungary waged succesfull wars (and had Vienna from 1485-1490 fact wich I didn’t know) but: they lost completly against mongols of golden horde; they lost in Nicolpole in 1398 and Varna in 1444; they lost at Mohacs in 1526. From that moment hungarians fight as part of coalition in most wars (and before that – 1398 and 1444 if we want to be specific). That’s doesn’t sound like military glory to me (Poles for example made wars by herself and pursuit with succes an imperial path till XVII century. And they had Empire in left Russia in right, and the Turk down) France excepting Ludovic the XIV and Napoleon wasn’t a military power and didn’t achive glory in wars.
    3. The romanian stetes fighted with some succes from XIV century till the end of XVII century with the Sultan. Romanian states became vassals of Ottomans but they never were integrated in empire as subjects. All the time romanian states kept their internal autonomy untouched (and much more than today in EU).
    4. About hungarians opportunism it is my perception. But don’t forget: a) in XI century Hungary was part pagan and part eastern ortodox. The nobles choose Rome, Hungary became catolic with great earthly benefits (catolicism became dominant in Central Europe). b) With habsburgian monarchy by pen and by sword (to a much lesser degree) hungarians managed to preserve dominance (and habsburgian state was the power in Central Europe till end of XIX century). c) Hungarian became allied with Third Reich wich was the dominant power in Central Europe from 1937 till 1945. d) Hungary became part of NATO/EU wich is now the power in region. In all cases Hungary find a good position with the power in charge of the moment. Each time hungarians felt from where the wind is blowing and negotiate a strong position. The only exception is Soviet Union but that wasn’t really an option.
    PS Because you mentioned, I looked up but I did’t find any example in wich hungarians changed sides. Once entered in a team they remained constant. And that’s a good point.

  17. April 4, 2012 - 1:08 am | Permalink

    @Henry Baxley:
    Please see my post above: Curmudgeon April 1, 2012 – 10:42 am, where I stated that human psyche is different than that of animals. Your argument is what I stated, only in different words.
    Generally speaking, in nature, species seek to re-produce with the same species. Eagles do not seek to reproduce with robins even though they are birds. Cedar Waxwings do not seek to mate with Bohemian Waxwings, and the plains zebra, the mountain zebra and Grevy’s zebra do not seek to mate with each other. Humans were distinct species at one time, unless you buy the “out of Africa” BS. The Aryans created the caste system in an attempt to prevent race mixing. Obviously, it didn’t work.
    My example of the bears, which I did not see but only read about, was to point out that it was an anomaly in nature. It was race mixing in bear species. I have always acknowledged that race mixing happens with humans. Whether it’s a good idea or not is a different question. In the survival of Caucasians, every mulatto or mestizo child born, represents not just the genocide of Caucasians, but of Negros and Amerinds. The difference is, the Negros and to a lesser extent Amerinds claim the child for their race, Caucasians do not. That is how Obama is a “Black” President. He is no more Negro than he is Caucasian, but he is touted as an “African-American” by Negros and Caucasians.

    I truly wish that any plausible belief system will catch on with the younger white population. I really don’t care if it is Christianity, or a pet rock. Something has to be done to turn the young people away from the pernicious
    effects of our enemies. I am not prepared to say ALL, but the overwhelming majority of Jews, Blacks, Amerinds, Latinos, Aborigines, and Asians would not give a damn if Whites perished from the earth tomorrow.
    To return to nature for a minute, whites have to relearn that species compete, for food and space. That means races compete for food and space. Nature may be beautiful in many ways, but it is violent in many more ways. If that is what you seek, that is fine. That does not eliminate religion, in any form, from the equation. As I understand your proposition, nature becomes the new religion. I’m OK with that, I just don’t see the youth of today putting down their smart phones long enough to absorb it.

    In fact, I don’t go to church every Sunday. Faith does not require a building. As stated earlier, Luther’s view was that man had to have his own relationship with G_d. That notion left the Protestant churches decades ago.

  18. The Admiral On Horseback's Gravatar The Admiral On Horseback
    April 3, 2012 - 5:25 pm | Permalink

    @The Admiral On Horseback: This could be misunderstood:

    it’s more closed to the east than to the west and the north.

    I meant the gene flow was more open to the west and the north (we seem to be closely related to the hated Slovaks and to our brothers the Poles, just as the sometimes disliked and sometimes envied in-laws in Austria) than to the east (apparently Romanians are genetically the most distant ethnicity among all our neighbors).

  19. The Admiral On Horseback's Gravatar The Admiral On Horseback
    April 3, 2012 - 5:21 pm | Permalink


    States who meets the eurozone criteria are not obliged to join (UK, Denmark and Sweden are exceptions)

    Wrong. These three countries have special clauses which enable them to stay outside the Eurozone, but any other EU member state which is not yet in the Eurozone should strive to meet the criteria, and once the criteria are met, should join the Eurozone. This also applies to any country to join the EU in the future, e.g. Croatia.

    They are a mix of slavs, romanians and scythic nations

    Romanians are not really in the mix, and I would add Germans (German immigrants and their descendants are a substantial portion of the population). Hungarians are genetically very close to most neighboring nations, but it’s more closed to the east than to the west and the north.

    From XII century they never excell in warfare and never had military glory.

    Wrong. Hungary was never as strong as France, but it was a kind of second-rate power, strong enough in her neighborhood. The most remarkable military successes happened in the second half of the 15th century under the reign of Mátyás (Matthias), who conquered Silesia, Moravia, and the eastern part of Austria (including Vienna). Right before that, crusader (mostly Hungarian) troops led by the father of Mátyás, János Hunyadi defeated the Turks at Nándorfehérvár (present-day Belgrade). János Hunyadi also led a number of military campaigns (two of them really large) to the Balkans against the Turks, although none of them were successful. The medieval Hungarian state collapsed in the 1520s after the Turks annihilated the Hungarian army at the battle of Mohács, after which Hungary descended into civil war, was divided between the Turks, the Habsburgs, and a rump state in Transylvania (which was a vassal of the Ottoman Sultan). After that, Hungary was (largely autonomous) part of the Habsburg Empire until 1918, and the last century was not really our century, having lost everything there…

    They never resisted and wage succesfull wars with Otoman Empire (turks) like Austria, Poland or even Romanian states.

    See above, we did resist and wage successful wars against the Ottomans for well over a century until 1526. The Romanian states were actually less successful in resisting the Turks, they were Ottoman vassals, in the early 18th century (well past the prime of the Ottomans) they unsuccessfully tried to rebel, and were brought under direct Ottoman rule for a while. They remained Turkish vassals until the early 19th century. However, they were smaller closer to the Turks than Hungary. As opposed to the Habsburgs and the Poles, who were larger and farther away from the Turks.

    However they always put their money on the winning numbers. Hungarians have an exceptionaly oportunistic nature and that’s it.

    Quite the opposite. We rebelled against the much stronger Habsburgs multiple times (1606: the result was a compromise, granting Hungarian autonomy; 1703-11: the result was a compromise, granting Hungarian autonomy which was taken in the 1680s; 1848-49: the war resulted in a stalemate by spring 1849, after which the Habsburg emperor asked help from Russia and we were crushed by help from the Russians; nevertheless, after less than two decades the Habsburgs had to negotiate with Hungary the Austro-Hungarian compromise), and unlike the Romanians and Slovakians didn’t change sides in WW2. (Although Regent Horthy tried to do that, the Germans could organize a coup against him, which went easily since most of the generals and officers of the army didn’t want to change sides. So we fought on the side of the Germans until the bitter end, although by the end without much enthusiasm.) And then came 1956, already mentioned by you. We sometimes wish we were more opportunistic, since having so much pride and fighting against so many stronger enemies has resulted in very little, at least since the beginning of the 20th century.

  20. blue rose's Gravatar blue rose
    April 3, 2012 - 8:28 am | Permalink

    @ Sindbad

    But member states are intimidated and forced to submit by more dangerous means like economic pressure, debts, political isolation, obscure lobbyism etc.

    Seems to me EU policies have backfired and they could have saved themselves the trouble, as Greece, Italy, and Spain (and a few other EU countries) are collapsing all on their own due to EU policies, the Euro, and the high cost of living.

    I suppose prior to the EU, in today’s modern Europe, what with one nation fighting another (not to mention internal dissent), an overlay of having a EU probably helps keep nations from engaging in war with each other. I suppose the fault lies not with the EU, but with themselves.

  21. Franklin Ryckaert's Gravatar Franklin Ryckaert
    April 3, 2012 - 6:51 am | Permalink

    Ach Herr “European”, bitte schreiben Sie doch Ihr Deutsch erst mahl richtig :
    schreib-wechsel > Schreibwechsel
    conversation > Konversation
    Umlaut kann man auch so machen : Zusammenhänge, hörst, hören.

    Und wenn Sie wirklich höflich sein wollen, bitte duzen Sie nicht eine alte Dame!

  22. Sindbad's Gravatar Sindbad
    April 3, 2012 - 5:32 am | Permalink

    @Bluerose: States who meets the eurozone criteria are not obliged to join (UK, Denmark and Sweden are exceptions) Nevertheless EU make serious efforts to bind all states by euro.
    In today EU, military threat (directly or indirectly) it doesn’e exist anymore. But member states are intimidated and forced to submit by more dangerous means like economic pressure, debts, political isolation, obscure lobbyism etc. Ireland in 2008 vetoed by referendum Lisbon treaty, a key act to a “more integrated EU”. One year later Ireland was in a huge economical crisis caused by banks. This is the way of the game.
    PS And Hungary is not a so extraordinary country. They are a mix of slavs, romanians and scythic nations united by an incomprehensible language. From XII century they never excell in warfare and never had military glory. They never resisted and wage succesfull wars with Otoman Empire (turks) like Austria, Poland or even Romanian states. In fact for 200 years, half of the country was occupied by turks. However they always put their money on the winning numbers. Hungarians have an exceptionaly oportunistic nature and that’s it. Never were a cultural/religious/civilizational center of Europe. But I admit, they have national dignity. In 1956 when Europe trembled because of the Red Army, they stood vertical agains Soviet Union. They lost, but not their honor. Now it seems that they do the same with EU

  23. The Admiral On Horseback's Gravatar The Admiral On Horseback
    April 3, 2012 - 2:06 am | Permalink

    Unfortunately Hungarian antisemitism stays at a disturbingly high level, according to the ADL.

  24. Vlad Writes's Gravatar Vlad Writes
    April 3, 2012 - 12:32 am | Permalink

    @arthurdecco: I disagree. Christianity is anti-jewish, but few have realized it lately. If you don’t believe me, ask a jew their opinion about Christianity and Jesus. Jews believe Jesus is essentially a fraud. Tell your Christian friends that.
    Judaism should be considered Egyptian slave rebellion mythology by your reasoning, hence judaism is Egyptian.

  25. Vlad Writes's Gravatar Vlad Writes
    April 3, 2012 - 12:17 am | Permalink

    @Curmudgeon: If the Russian Orthodox Christian Church can realize that the jews are the enemy, ultimately the American church can, too. I’m pretty sure few of you here (Alice and others excepted) are regular churchgoers like me, and can speak with some minor authority on the issue of what goes on in church these days.
    Guess what – we talk about Jesus Christ as the only way to heaven for two hours each Sunday! If a jew ever showed up he would go nuts! To be a jew is to reject Jesus. So, how do you go about discrediting jewish thinking without ever mentioning them, because some conformists love the jews?
    Here is how I did it this last Sunday. We were having a lesson on how Jesus fulfilled the Law of Moses via his sacrifice on the cross. Previously, keeping the Law of Moses was the route to heaven. Since Jesus was the sacrifice for mankind, keeping the Law and making animal sacrifices to atone for sin became no longer necessary. It was stated the only way to heaven is through Jesus Christ.
    So, I innocently asked, “If people keep the law today, will they go to heaven?”
    “No, they will not,” I was told.
    “So, there is no special exception for anyone?”
    “No,” they repeated, and several class members joined in to confirm it, including a few ex-missionaries, who are the most hard core people you will find in church.
    Without mentioning them by name, I had the whole class confirm the Jews were doomed without Jesus. Once people accept that, they no longer feel compelled to support those desert land thieves, nor send their sons (and maybe daughters) to die for the moneychangers of the temple.
    I think a few of the smarter people caught on, but I trapped them, and they know it. If by chance any Sunday school folks were in that class you know who I am, and lets talk.

  26. anon's Gravatar anon
    April 2, 2012 - 10:35 pm | Permalink

    OFF TOPIC, This is so gross.
    what kind of role model is an Illustrated Man? At 6000$ a day.
    But its for a good cuase.[or is it]?

    former tattoo artist who legally changed his name to The Scary Guy is using his persona—and frightening facial ink—to teach schoolkids to stop bullying.

    Scary, a Minnesota man formerly known as Earl Kauffman, has become an in-demand “bully prevention guru.” His mission, according to his website, is “The Total Elimination of Hate, Violence and Prejudice Worldwide.” The 58-year-old changed his name in 1998, when 85 percent of his body was covered in tattoos, according to the Smoking Gun.

    According to CNN, which profiled Scary on Sunday, he charges as much as $6,500 for scholastic speaking engagements. For that cash, they get something like this:

    Speaking before a packed auditorium of schoolchildren in Austin, Minnesota, he barfs up apples, groans and rubs his ink-stained belly and intentionally pokes fun at the shortest middle-schooler, the bald PE teacher and the “geek in the wheelchair.” He explains he’s demonstrating classic bullying behavior to make kids aware of the problem.

    The entertaining antics are followed up with fist-pumping and a steely look as he delivers his takeaway: “You travel around on this world, and you put out hate and anger, and you cop an attitude, you’ll draw all this into your life wherever you go.”

    Scary says he’s performed in 19 states and frequently gets international requests. “Kids love him, and many school officials sing his praises,”

  27. Henry Baxley's Gravatar Henry Baxley
    April 2, 2012 - 7:45 pm | Permalink

    @Henry Baxley:
    I almost forgot the most important question, at least one of the most important;
    When all us humans are at last equal, WHO WILL DEFINE EQUALITY?

  28. European's Gravatar European
    April 2, 2012 - 7:29 pm | Permalink

    @Alice Teller:
    Alice, Du kannst die Zusammenhaenge der Auseinanderzetzung in dem schreib-wechsel im Januar, oder auf dieser Seite nicht folgen. Du hoerst nur was Du hoeren willst. Die conversation mit Ihnen ist mir einfach zu dumm. Schlafen Sie weiter mit Ihrer Einbildung.

  29. Henry Baxley's Gravatar Henry Baxley
    April 2, 2012 - 7:23 pm | Permalink


    Reality check:
    Since you see a white bear mating with a black bear as proof that nature has no idea what its doing let me pose a hypothetical question to you, fender, and others who SEEM to view white people as the special creation of God and all others as sub-human or not human at all…here we go!


    YES or NO!







  30. April 2, 2012 - 5:39 pm | Permalink

    @Henry Baxley:
    I acknowledge that there are young people who are much as you describe. They are, however, far from a majority. Most of them are too busy texting or broadcasting inane day to day activities on F@cebook or Twitt*r. They are comepletely self absorbed. This iincludes the young mothers who provide daily updates on their child rearing.

    At a cursory look at your link, I see the overwhelming similarity to my childhood experiences from my earliest memories in the early 1950s. My parents would not have passed as “Christians” today, because they didn’t wear their belief on their sleeves. I was raised in a family that saw the church as a moral guidance as much as a religious one. Sunday school and the sermons were about being a good person and inner salvation. Nature was seen as G-d’s gift to cherish, not something to be exploited.
    Atheists tend to be anti most things.
    Be careful where you go with Nature. There are reports that a female polar bear wandered inland during mating season and mated with black bear, producing “mulatto” cubs.
    The other problem with Nature(ism), as I have expressed previously, is that the logical conclusion is either randomness is responsible for everything, or that organisms have progressed unceasingly in an eat; sleep; reproduce; evolve; cycle.
    The liklihood of either explanation is akin to one person winning the powerball on every draw, or, viewed another way, just as implausible as the creationist theory.

    Curious that the societies that produced Skara Brae, Stonehenge, the Sphinx, and the Pyramids all had religion as a focal point of their societies.

  31. Tom's Gravatar Tom
    April 2, 2012 - 2:06 pm | Permalink


    From what I’ve read the Hungarian Protestants are the most “nationalistic” group in Hungary. I doubt that they would have anything at all against a Hungarian artifact, like the crown, although they would not want to see it on an Austrian Catholic’s head, or on a Jew either. LOL.

  32. Alice Teller's Gravatar Alice Teller
    April 2, 2012 - 1:18 pm | Permalink

    There is no distortion. As I said then and I say now, it is a pity you will not extend the same courtesy to the Americans you live among.

  33. European's Gravatar European
    April 2, 2012 - 1:01 pm | Permalink

    oops….thought should be throat.

  34. European's Gravatar European
    April 2, 2012 - 12:59 pm | Permalink

    @Alice Teller:
    January 29, 2012 – 2:37 pm | Permalink

    for someone to state “to have a German at their throat” is indicating a murderes temperament, (sounds jewish) which is a false representation of the national German character. Germans bend over backwards to help others, yes we argue and disagree within our little states, but we will refuse being taking over by ungreatful Others. You damn right, we will defend ourself when push comes to shove. Germany is for Germans, it is their national homeland. Not Jews or any other European People. If I work in France or Italy, I do as the French or the Italiens, if I don’t like it I drive across the Boarder and go home. Stop Bitching or go home!


    You could have at least posted my whole post and what I was refering to. It is was regarding Bobby’s derogative statement and claim, Germans being on his thought, and it was never directed toward you. Read the whole thred please, and tell the whole story please. It was never directed or adressed to you, and you know it by leaving the core issue out and distorting it to fit your claim and support your hatred or dislike of Germans. Too many N…Movies, yes? We evil people. Now whine and cry how you are unjustly being corrected? You can dish it out, but you can’t take it.

  35. Henry Baxley's Gravatar Henry Baxley
    April 2, 2012 - 9:46 am | Permalink


    You seem to have a pretty good handle on some of the underlying dynamics of the situation.
    Also have you considered that the rising standard of living made possible by technology on the one hand has also put millions of people out of work on the other, (machines doing jobs formerly done by people) This fact, coupled with rising population growth in the third world, puts the world economy in a double bind. Of course all this doesn’t affect Big Brother as he is out sailing on his yacht incummunicado. The elite are always the last to get the news.

  36. Bluerose's Gravatar Bluerose
    April 2, 2012 - 8:55 am | Permalink

    @Sindbad and @ Admiral on Horseback:

    OK, thanks. I guess I get it now.

    I read on wiki that Hungary ” still does not meet the criteria for joining the Eurozone.” I thought this meant Hungary was not as yet a EU member. But then comes something called the “Schengen Area” in which I see Hungary is part of the “Schengen Area (EU)”, which means Hungary is part of the EU.

    Lastly, apparently, being a member of the ‘eurozone’, which Hungary is not, means when Hungary meets the requirements it will be obliged to adopt the euro (€) as their common currency and sole legal tender. Most other EU states are obliged to join [the eurozone] once they meet the criteria to do so.

    If I got all that correct, all I can say is I prefer the charm of old Europe when it consisted of little Christian Kingdoms and had kings, like with Hungary’s Age of Árpádian kings (the year 972 marked the date when the ruling prince Géza of the Árpád dynasty officially started to integrate Hungary into the Christian Western Europe), when it was recognized as a Catholic Apostolic Kingdom, which lasted 946 years. Quite a stretch of time 946 years. Hungary at various points was regarded as one of the cultural centres of the Western world.

    It also seemed pleasant when Hungary was integrated into the Austrian Habsburg Monarchy, and later constituted half of the Austro-Hungarian dual monarchy (1867–1918). The head of the House of Habsburg was usually also the ruler of the Holy Roman Empire from 1440 until its dissolution in 1806. Again, quite a stretch of time for the Habsburg Monarchy (and the Holy Roman Empire, from 962 to 1806).

    Along comes Viktor Orban, and he has to deal with Schengen Areas, EUs, and eurozones, and Hungary, warding off an economic collapse, threat of NATO, and a weak, disgruntled military and police. He should really keep the military and police happy, if you ask me, and scale back somewhere else. Certainly Hungary’s distant past was glorious compared to how things are today.

  37. Hooper's Gravatar Hooper
    April 2, 2012 - 8:14 am | Permalink

    To the chorus proclaiming the demise of Europe, I would say ‘it’s too early to eulogize.’ I think it is often underestimated how sharply the zeitgeist can change within one generation. One of the extremely odd aspects of the decline and displacement of whites in Europe over the past 50 or so years is the fact that the standard of living for most whites has actually gone up. And even if one points to some sort of relative economic decline “on paper”, the opportunities afforded by rapid technological advancements have created the illusion of greater wealth. It has to be one of the only declines in human history accompanied by an across-the-board rise in living standards.

    As a result, the poisonous ideology that has Europe heading over a cliff hasn’t registered with people to be anything particularly negative. Since most people don’t take the time to sort all of this stuff out at the level of ideas, they go about their lives with a certain fuzzy emotional contentment whereby the ideology they have lived with their whole lives is in some vague way associated with “things getting better.” This is not even an argument but an example of emotional association. Of course it doesn’t hold up under inspection, but then again, who’s been inspecting? Germany, destroyed during the war, rose to become Europe’s leading economy with an extremely high standard of living — all in one generation. For most people, this “feels” like progress.

    What’s happening now, however, is that this comfortable “justification by association” (rising living standards juxtaposed with a certain ideology) is falling to pieces. And it’s falling to pieces not because cogent intellectual arguments have reached the masses but rather because my generation (born in the 1980s) can’t find jobs and is saddled with huge debt. Multiculturalism is losing credibility, not because of high-falutin ideas about the white race but because as things get much tighter, we look around and see (1) a lot of immigrants taking jobs (2) immigrants milking the heck out of the resources of European countries. Before people didn’t notice so much because there were fewer of them and life was getting better.

    I think this is prescient because it’s becoming increasingly clear that our current economic malaise isn’t merely a recession but the consequences of decades worth of bad decisions – in other words, a system rotten to the core.
    I think a rather profound discontent with the status quo is a wave that is just beginning to swell. It doesn’t have to manifest itself in explicit and intellectually comprehensive white nationalism to become a force for bringing down the moribund post-war European framework.

    Solzhenitsyn saw all this coming and said in his famous 1978 Harvard commencement address, “Even biology knows that habitual extreme safety and well-being are not advantageous for a living organism. Today, well-being in the life of Western society has begun to reveal its pernicious mask.”

  38. ethnonationalism's Gravatar ethnonationalism
    April 2, 2012 - 7:58 am | Permalink
  39. Hooper's Gravatar Hooper
    April 2, 2012 - 7:23 am | Permalink

    @The Admiral On Horseback: Well said. I think some of the comments here reflect a lack of appreciation for the delicate nature of politics. Orban has made a very realistic evaluation of his position and he is trying to fight using the tools he has at his disposal. Jerking his country out of the EU for ideological reasons at this point in time would be disastrous and pointless.

  40. Henry Baxley's Gravatar Henry Baxley
    April 2, 2012 - 5:13 am | Permalink


    I notice. I have been saying the same thing for 25 years. One of the advantages..(I guess the only advantage) of not having much education is not being as BRAINWASHED as most.

  41. Rudy's Gravatar Rudy
    April 2, 2012 - 5:07 am | Permalink

    Perhaps members of the “love it or go home” crowd should acquaint themselves with Rammstein’s song/video, “Amerika,” which illustrates how there is no going home. Now, everyone lives in “America.”

    To Germans descended from the Third Reich, erstwhile defender of western Christian civilization, the 1945 defeat means Germany is now a slave colony of the Marxist-capitalist American Empire. (Coincidentally, America is also a colony of this globalist empire.) For Germany, it is codified into law.

    All thinking German adults are cognizant of how it hinders sovereignty and sensible decision making. Although I believe their instincts for freedom are still healthy, they know it is necessary to wait patiently for the “average American” to finally grow sophisticated enough to steer America into a positive direction.

    It is a long and frustrating wait. But Germans know that to prematurely extricate Germany from bondage, as they did from 1933 until 1945, it would result in yet another destructive onslaught by the Empire; and sadly, Americans would probably once again be duped into participating in the mutual destruction.

    Germans are so paranoid of this scenario, that they publicly acquiesce to the Empire’s phony historical narrative (just like Americans are forced to accept this narrative), replete with holohoaxery and tall tales of “nazi evil.” However, they privately refer to it as the Siegergeschichte — the “victor’s story.”

    It’s a mentally degrading exercise, to know the truth but not be permitted to voice it. Such exercise ensures low-esteem. It also ensures that hordes of “unfriendlies” keep coming in.

    In light of the indignity, Germans can do nothing more than pretend they have a country to call “home.” It is an ongoing game of willful self-deception; one that Americans have also learned to play. Clearly, education is needed — but not necessarily on the German side of the equation.


    To those who believe that Levantine fables — for which no manuscripts even exist! — will save European/white peoples from extinction, better think again. A “conservative” acquaintance recently told me how he regards America’s immigrant invasion to be good. Why? Because … (get ready for this one) … “Most of the immigrants are Catholics”!

    It didn’t occur to him that most are also communists by default. He hates commies, but I guess he’s not very skilled at recognizing them. Or his first instinct is to value his “cult”‘s advancement relative to others, over his country’s well being.

    I’m not implying that Catholics in particular are mindless followers, or that Protestants are any more intelligent, but I will say that universalist religions transform brains into mush — something that God probably doesn’t want for us.


    I spent about a decade as a bicycle tourist in eastern Europe. From my saddle I saw everything, from desolate farming villages in the countryside… to still-inhabited living complexes that adjoin abandoned factories… to Soviet utopian tenement cities with lost souls roaming around deteriorated commons.

    I was there after the Wall fell, but before the introduction of paint to buildings; before all the cobbles were paved with asphalt; before private telephones were widely available — but not before satellite dishes dotted exteriors of tenements everywhere. The media masters wasted no time in getting their brainwashing infrastructure installed.

    In my view, eastern Europeans considered “western” TV programming to be culturally Marxist, just like we do. However, they didn’t use the term “Marxist” to describe it; instead, they called it “capitalist.” That’s probably because they more readily saw themselves as the Marxists, at least according to their history. Considering that cultural Marxism and “western” capitalism are ideologically the same, they weren’t too far off.

    Unlike in the culturally Marxist West, eastern Europe still had an in-tact family concept. That’s probably because their respective governments took the Stalinist approach of promoting the family unit. This contrasts with the Trotskyist slant toward urban materialism and societal atomization, wherein the focus is on “individuals,” preferably intellectual city dwellers.

    In any case, my eastern colleagues regarded western culture to contain a high percentage of feminized men — e.g., why any “man” would seek extended paternity leave was beyond their comprehension. Mine too, for that matter.

    Hungary is an interesting place, for sure. In Budapest, it seems like every business is named Attila-this or Atilla-that. Apparently, Hungarians worship Attila the Hun…or maybe businesses just like a name that starts with “A” because it ensures favorable placement in the telephone directory. Maybe it’s both.

    The business name “Magyar” is also popular. It of course refers to the Uralic tribe from which Hungarians are partly descended. It is also the name of the language, which sounds like spoken Finnish; emphasis is on the first syllable. (I know this is a linguistic rule for Finnish, so I assume it also applies to Hungarian since they are related languages.)

    The people looked predominately European, but I noticed some deeply Asiatic phenotypes interspersed among the country folk. Their features tell a mysterious story, perhaps of distant Hunic, Mongol or Turkic ancestors riding across the steppe on horseback. It really fascinated me.

    I also encountered some frightening moments. For example, I happened upon a serious motorcycle accident in the countryside and witnessed some local farmhands administering first aid — they attempted to revive the mangled victim by pouring liquor down his throat from a flask, and then slapping his face. It made me think that I should perhaps carry some olives and drink mix, just in case I’d suffer a similar fate some day. Luckily I didn’t. But as the saying goes, always be prepared!

    Another interesting fact about Hungary is that, nearing the endtimes, citizens of the DDR would get vacation passes to Balaton, and then bolt across the Austrian border to freedom. Eventually, passes were no longer required, so East Germans could simply pack their Trabants and go unchecked. Hungary served as a willing transit land for escapees, all due to its lenient border policy.

    PS & TS, thanks for another great article!

  42. Sindbad's Gravatar Sindbad
    April 2, 2012 - 3:07 am | Permalink

    @blue rose: It seems that Hungary has a political leader (maybe a real one) and not the usual clowns who dance how Brussels sings. I hope that this will be the trend for the rest of the EU states.
    PS Hungary is a EU member from 2004 and also it is in Schengen Zone. Only that Hungary is not member of the Eurozone (his still has a national currency not euro)

  43. The Admiral On Horseback's Gravatar The Admiral On Horseback
    April 2, 2012 - 1:12 am | Permalink

    @blue rose:

    After bemoaning whatever it was he was bemoaning, he is still in favor of being a part of the European Union

    If he left the EU, the country would immediately collapse economically, and he would be toppled. Even if he would somehow avoid the economic collapse, or manage to handle the discontent (open revolt) resulting from it, he would be exposed to NATO action. Hungary has a very weak military even relative to its size, and no ally to speak of. (BTW Orbán is not very popular among military and police personnel, because he discontinued their early retirement schemes.)

    Now since he has to stay in the EU, he has to be careful what and how he says.

  44. arthurdecco's Gravatar arthurdecco
    April 1, 2012 - 11:41 pm | Permalink

    @fender: “@Alice Teller, Christianity is Jewish culture. How many White Europeans do you learn about in Sunday school?”

    This is a perfectly formed argument. There is no answer but the awkward truth. NONE!

    Fender, your comments on this thread should rightly go Viral online but will instead fade away into nothing because of how brain-dead most of our fellow citizens are after the completion of their educational incubation/indoctrination these days.

    Dey doent noe tiss nuttin no moe.

    Still, thank you for trying!

  45. Henry Baxley's Gravatar Henry Baxley
    April 1, 2012 - 8:36 pm | Permalink


    “I fear nature ain’t gonna cut it for the youth we need to reproduce in significantl higher numbers.”

    My experience has been the exact opposite, it is the young that are advocating for children and a more natural style of parenting
    Also, most people on atheist sites are overwhelmingly critical of Israel (mostly young)
    And most of the supporters of Ron Paul are young.

    It is the CHRISTIANS who slobber and grovel after the best looking republican candidate who is OPENLY loyal to a FORIEGN NATION, most of them are middle aged and older Christians btw
    It is they who are stuck in a time warp of some kind where having lots of kids meant more field hands. Having lots of kids today is tantamount to child abuse. If having big families were the answer to anything most Jews would be cleaning toilets for a living

  46. Nothing is Free's Gravatar Nothing is Free
    April 1, 2012 - 7:41 pm | Permalink

    Eastern Europeans had their chance to become Germans during the Hapsburg Empire. Instead, they chose to hang onto their backward cultures and national churches and now look to Germany to rescue them. You can’t have your cake and eat it, too. At the dawn of the Roman Empire, the Italians found themselves in a dire situation until they got tired of being slaves, united, and overthrew their oppressors. There is hope for Europe. Nations like Hungary aren’t going anywhere if they keep wringing their hands over how to pay the pensions of old ladies.

  47. Haris's Gravatar Haris
    April 1, 2012 - 6:36 pm | Permalink

    @candida: Sorry about dead link.
    My point was merely to show yet another staggering example of how incredibly naive, tolerant and lost many whites are.
    Miss Universe Australia experiences Muslim life

  48. candida's Gravatar candida
    April 1, 2012 - 4:57 pm | Permalink


    The link is dead but I found the content with a rapid search. What is your point? I’m still looking for the answer what these people are doing down in Australia…

  49. April 1, 2012 - 4:12 pm | Permalink

    @Henry Baxley:
    Nice theory, but who is going to buy into it? I am a big believer in the forces of Nature. I agree homosexuality, race mixing, etc. is not natural.
    However, the fact that Brazil and other “Latin American” countries are massively mixed race(s) proved my point. This has been the case since the Aryans swept down and conquered the “dark ones”. The higher castes in India today still have lighter skin and Caucasian features.

    I fear nature ain’t gonna cut it for the young ones whom we need to reproduce at significantly higher rates. They are, by and large, OK with the current message of our degraded society.

  50. Henry Baxley's Gravatar Henry Baxley
    April 1, 2012 - 3:15 pm | Permalink


    “What belief system would you have replace Christianity”?

    The belief in NATURE as God and the laws of Nature as Gods laws…. NOT some human “prophet” like Budda, Muhammed, Jesus, etc.

  51. Haris's Gravatar Haris
    April 1, 2012 - 2:42 pm | Permalink
  52. Mickey Meadows's Gravatar Mickey Meadows
    April 1, 2012 - 2:09 pm | Permalink


    lol – it didn’t seem to get in the way of the Crusades and countless other earlier campaigns.
    I really don’t think it matters what precisely is believed, so much as who owns what is believed.

  53. fender's Gravatar fender
    April 1, 2012 - 2:01 pm | Permalink


    Yes, Whites do need a belief system, but not a belief system whose chief tenets are “love your enemy” and “the meek shall inherit the earth.”

  54. Mickey Meadows's Gravatar Mickey Meadows
    April 1, 2012 - 1:42 pm | Permalink

    @Alice Teller:

    Alice – I feel like I trust your judgement. I was just providing a nudge to a respected other, when perhaps they needed one. Likewise I need one on a regular basis and would welcome and trust it were it coming from you.

  55. Henry Baxley's Gravatar Henry Baxley
    April 1, 2012 - 1:24 pm | Permalink


    “So what is the belief system you would have replace Christianity?”

    I have repeated stated that a Natural Polarist type of system is the only way humans can survive on this earth IN THE MODERN AGE.

    Natural Polarity is a universal Natural Law ( God made men and women OPPOSITE so they would ATTRACT and reproduce) the same with dogs cats, etc.
    Without a clear and legally enforced division of labor between men and women this law is perverted into UN-NATURAL PATHS, Homosexuality, race mixing, etc.
    Along with this gender polarization must also come leaders who recognize its primacy in human affairs….Educated and well liked great grand parents with the wisdom of age SELECTED (NOT ELECTED) by other wise elders.
    Life is primarily a struggle for VALUE, (the approval, esteem of our peers)
    and to “be loved by someone we love)
    In order to have value and dignity humans must have a PLACE and they must KNOW WHERE IT IS!
    Both theoretically and practically EQUALITY is DEATH to human dignity and value
    ………………………………..NATURE HATES EQUALITY………………………………..

  56. Henry Baxley's Gravatar Henry Baxley
    April 1, 2012 - 12:56 pm | Permalink


    I will admit to being largely ignorant of the broader history of Christianity. However, we must deal with the Jew loving Christians of today don’t you agree?
    (98 % of them defend jews over their own people)

  57. Alice Teller's Gravatar Alice Teller
    April 1, 2012 - 12:40 pm | Permalink

    @Mickey Meadows:
    That is kind of you, but I was not merely protecting myself or my ego. It is a serious question. I am in the ridiculous position of advocating for civility and them becoming embroiled in what you, quite rightly, call bitter arguments.

    The fact that white folks have not responded when attacked and we suffer the consequences now seems to be one of the very few things we all agree on. Yet now you advice me to do the same because the attackers claim to be pro-white. I am very willing to sacrifice for my family and kin – where do you suggest I draw the line?

  58. Mickey Meadows's Gravatar Mickey Meadows
    April 1, 2012 - 12:24 pm | Permalink

    p.s. by sacrificial I didn’t mean literally :O) I mean…because you can (i.e. have the social skills) you help most through acting as a ‘glue’ and ignoring the harsh comments from some people (which have been totally undeserved IMHO)

  59. Mickey Meadows's Gravatar Mickey Meadows
    April 1, 2012 - 12:19 pm | Permalink

    @Alice Teller:

    Alice – I think you’re a star. Just need to remember that it’s primarily a sacrificial role. Need to keep thinking of the the greater good etc etc.

  60. Alice Teller's Gravatar Alice Teller
    April 1, 2012 - 12:14 pm | Permalink

    @Mickey Meadows:
    Quite right Mickey, It seems I find myself in a dilemma. I find it interesting that we are regularly castigated here for our lack of response when the anti-whites attack us. If others attack us, in needlessly nasty ways, we are to meekly accept it?

    Perhaps I really do not belong here. I cannot deny that I seem to provoke some very ugly comments. Most are directed at me personally, not any position I hold. I have been accused of wanting to round up all Jews and send them to the camps, of being personally disgusting, of countless feminist crimes, …….

    I await your wise advice on how I should react.

  61. Mickey Meadows's Gravatar Mickey Meadows
    April 1, 2012 - 11:52 am | Permalink

    @Alice Teller:

    Alice – don’t take it too harshly but right now I’m seeing three threads and Alice in three bitter arguments.

  62. ethnonationalism's Gravatar ethnonationalism
    April 1, 2012 - 11:49 am | Permalink


    Yes, Orban is a Protestant.

    But that does not stop him from honouring the (Catholic) Holy Crown of Hungary…

  63. Alice Teller's Gravatar Alice Teller
    April 1, 2012 - 11:34 am | Permalink

    @Alice Teller:
    The truth is here, for all to see. These are your exact words. There are many others even uglier.

  64. Alice Teller's Gravatar Alice Teller
    April 1, 2012 - 11:30 am | Permalink

    @European: Germany is for Germans, it is their national homeland. Not Jews or any other European People. If I work in France or Italy, I do as the French or the Italiens, if I don’t like it I drive across the Boarder and go home. Stop Bitching or go home!


  65. European's Gravatar European
    April 1, 2012 - 11:06 am | Permalink

    @Alice Teller:
    while simultaneously demanding that anyone who does not think that Germany is perfect should get out, you really do not deserve the courtesy of a reply.

    Alice, you show me a comment or a post where I have done that, unless you enjoy Germany being overun by foreigners. It simply does not exist Alice. You showed your dislike for Germans period.
    And I have shown you my observations, humble opinions and experiences with the american people here. Nothing more and nothing less. Unfortunatly it is to your dislike, as it is for me having had to experience it. That does not make me hateful, but I will tell (you) my story, so others will not fall into the traps of lies. Nothing personaly against you, since there will always be those, as it is also in the Jewish world, who make every effort to correct their ways (errors), and who will do everything to uncover the virus that is killing their, as well as other people and Nations lifes.
    Maybe I ought to adopt the outrages jewish version reversed: Anti-Christianity or Anti-White is a Virus. lol

    You also might do well reading the Book:
    “Discovering America as it is” by Valdas Anelauskas
    Clarity Press Inc. It may give you a more sobering perspective how others see you. (anti-american I don’t think so, just telling it like it is, and justly bruising your american ego)
    Bombed, our Cities burned, starved, battered, beaten, bruised, raped and murdered we have come out of the ashes of Germany. What we have now, is a knowledge of God’s grace and who we are. Europe will do well keeping their Faith in the roots of Christianity. That is not reversable.

  66. April 1, 2012 - 10:51 am | Permalink

    @Henry Baxley: Your references are to what Christianity has become, not what it was until well after the Reformation. The “born in sin” piece was originally applied to children born out of wedlock. The “sin” was the parents not being able to control themselves i.e. lust, one of the 7 deadly sins.

  67. April 1, 2012 - 10:42 am | Permalink

    For those who mock Christianity, please consider the following:
    – All religions are nothing more than a belief system.
    – If Whites are to survive, they need a belief system. Christianity was that belief system in all of Western Europe for more than 1,000 years, during which they became the dominant force in the world.
    – Jews follow their belief system and are thriving economically and demographically. Jews spend an inordinate amount of time attacking Christianity.
    – South Asians have their belief systems Hinduism, Buddhism, etc. still in place. They are multiplying and thriving.
    – China, post Mao, is returning to tried and true Dynastic history methods. Chinese students take ethics classes which could loosely be described as Confusionism. They are thriving in the way the Jews are.
    – Many successful blacks have bought into the European/Christian belief system.
    – Japan, post WWII has become “Westernized”. Its earlier post WWII success was due to its cultural strength. Japan has lost its cultural strength and is now doomed.
    – Russia is returning to its cultural past and is moving forward.

    The reality is that for Whites in Western Europe and N.A. to survive, we need a belief system to which we must attach ourselves. The human psyche requires it. We do not possess the same drive for genetic reproduction that animals do. To put it at its basest, males do not care where their seed is planted when the urge to seed is present. Similarly, a woman’s urge to reproduce crosses race lines when her own race is not present or a viable option.

    I am not defending Christianity, and in particular the Christianity of the West. Mock Christianity all you want, but at the end of the day, people with no belief systems are lost. So, what is the belief system you would have replace Christianity? If you have one, please share it with the rest of us.

    By the way, I consider Islam to be a form of reform Judaism.

  68. Tom's Gravatar Tom
    April 1, 2012 - 8:09 am | Permalink


    Who died and made you Pope? LOL. Should we consider your words infallible, and, your bull Papal?

  69. Henry Baxley's Gravatar Henry Baxley
    April 1, 2012 - 12:13 am | Permalink

    @Henry Baxley:

    An excellent case study of Christian pathology is Ed Gein, the serial killer most modern horror movies of this genre is based on. His mother was a devout Christian and she and her alcoholic husband ran a butcher shop behind their store which was adjoined to their house. evry night she would have “bible class” for Ed and his older brother when she would read old testament stories of killing and blood. she seldom let the boys out of the house, fearing the would be “corrupted” so poor Ed got an almost exclusive diet of Butchery and sin etc. When his mama died he lost it and mumyfied her corpse and started digging up womens graves to butcher and make arts and crafts of human parts. when this no longer “fixed” him he started killing local women and dressing them out like hogs. This is just anectdotal to demonstrate how PROGRAMMING works in child development. The vast majority of Christians are reasonably sane and healthy Thank God.

  70. Henry Baxley's Gravatar Henry Baxley
    March 31, 2012 - 11:29 pm | Permalink

    You know you are dealing with a shorted brain circuit (robot) when Christians refuse to answer any questions or even acknowledge those critical of their demonstrably dysfunctional and destructive christian programming;
    Early childhood recordings (Parent Tapes> I’m OK, Your OK by Dr. Thomas Harris) but instead keep replaying those old tapes over and over like a broken record regardless of the issue or question at hand. This is what happens when abusive Christian parents beat Jesus into and the hell out of kids, and pump their heads full of sexual guilt “born in sin”, etc. (the 1st thing christians do when an infant is born is slap a diaper on it and dress it from head to toe)
    Then they spend the rest of their childhood in a kind of Christian “bootcamp” where the least infraction brings swift and terrible punishment. Guilt, Punishment Guilt, punishment, Jesus will forgive you if you confess your sins, and if you don’t you will surely burn in hell forever and ever. In this same way witches were given the choice of confess and be hanged, or don’t confess and get tortured some more. These are the data fed into the developing brain of most Christian children. And since trash in =trash out, they can not help but regurgitate and replay the recordings they learned in infancy and even before.
    Of course, since the mind tends to block out painful memories they will only remember the relatively “good” memories so they will consciously recall their childhood as happy, Yet they will fly into a rage at their own children without knowing why, as if their bodies are acting on automatic pilot they will beat their own children thus repeating the cycle of abuse all the while thinking “why am i doing this?” Unaware that the old tapes are replaying on cue.
    With some, religious programming is literally ALL THE INFORMATION THEY HAVE STORED, and so can’t address any issue, or life itself except by playing and replaying the same broken record.
    In fact, given that most here prefer to use a screen name, it could be that the vitriol directed at Jews and blacks is simply the ego-defense mechanism of DISPLACEMENT, and what they REALLY want to vent is understandable RAGE against their own sick and abusive parents. But the very prospect of this fills them with morbid fear. So they use blacks and jews to symbolize their dictatorial, controlling, and often even sadistic parents. Of course they are CORRECT in pointing at Jews and blacks as threatening, but the underlying motive/reason is something even more sinister and destructive in their miserable lives CHILD ABUSE AND NEGLECT!
    I am not directing this at any one particular person, they know who they are.

  71. Henry Baxley's Gravatar Henry Baxley
    March 31, 2012 - 10:12 pm | Permalink


    Great post!

  72. Frank Edwin Stone's Gravatar Frank Edwin Stone
    March 31, 2012 - 9:20 pm | Permalink

    @Antiyuppie: Very true. The coming collapse of the Euro will be the shock that will reawaken the Germans. The youngest generation is all voting NPD. The future belongs to the young, the future looks hopeful.

  73. Frank Edwin Stone's Gravatar Frank Edwin Stone
    March 31, 2012 - 9:16 pm | Permalink

    @fender: So true. so true

  74. jono's Gravatar jono
    March 31, 2012 - 9:13 pm | Permalink

    @Nick West:

    I don’t know why people can’t see this. White nations were strong when Christianity was strong–strong enough to drive jews out. Jews waged war against Christianity because they know Christ/Yahweh was and is the source of the one power they can’t beat. At this point, our only hope is to return to Jesus Christ, the savior of the white race.

    About the article. Who and what is European? The jews have defined us out of existance. By their definition the White European race doesn’t exist. Jews, Turks, Greeks, Romas, Africans, Asians, etc are not European. What does “German” mean if it includes moslem Turks and Africans?

    As Europeans, we need to rightfully reclaim the right to define ourselves. Exclusively.

  75. Robert's Gravatar Robert
    March 31, 2012 - 7:29 pm | Permalink

    Christianity might have been the foundation that helped form modern Europe. However it is a false base. If it hadn’t been there we would still have developed our western societies eventually.

    You christians today are basically the follower of a lore system that at its core is the reflection of another peoples psyche. The mythology is sprung from a middle easterners mindset with tales of palm leaves, date fruits, deserts and warring nomad tribes. It is quite bizarre and sad really, how we the white people of Europe lost our own tales and myths. Those old stories where sprung from our own peoples way of thinking, a manifestation of a white mindset.

    I myself am very interested in the nordic Asatro for example, being a swede. Of course I realise those old gods don’t exist but they are still true and alive because they are connected to us and the land we walk on. The stories makes sense because you recoqnize how the attributes of the gods and the tales about how life functions are created from brains wired much like yourself.

    Walking in the forest “armed” with knowledge about the old mythology makes you feel connected to nature and your people. If we still had this religion impacting society today nationalism and kinship among ourselves would thrive.

    Perhaps it sounds silly what I write but some things get lost when you try and express yourself in another language.

    Anyways I really recommend every white person to dig into their peoples old pagan religion. It is very fullfilling. We instinctively feel a connection to the characters our ancestors created because through them we see ourselves. The old gods are walking embodiments of our own people.

  76. Sanjay's Gravatar Sanjay
    March 31, 2012 - 7:24 pm | Permalink

    Unless Europe recognizes the Jewish parasite, the Jewish virus, and addresses this virus, it will not be healthy again.

    Only by freeing ourselves from this deadly virus can we become healthy again.

  77. fender's Gravatar fender
    March 31, 2012 - 7:12 pm | Permalink

    To the Christards here:

    I am aware that the history of Western Europe was heavily influenced by Christianity…in fact, that’s partially what got us to this point. But if Whites are going to survive they are going to have to survive as Whites, not as Christians. This is a racial struggle and nothing more. Whiteness is the bottom line.


    I agree with you on the Central and Eastern European nations, but only if they get their birth rates up, do not let third worlders into their countries, and keep the Jews from attaining too much power. Naturally the third is going to be the most difficult.

  78. candida's Gravatar candida
    March 31, 2012 - 6:40 pm | Permalink


    Forget it. The youth is as much corrupt and degenerate (including most educating ones) as the so-called German government and state. The demographic crisis is much worse than other European countries (Germans haven’t been reproducing since as early as 60s) and thousands of them are emigrating every year.

    Anyone who believes and sees hope in Germany will disappoint terribly. The only hope for them is killing this occupation product entirely by removing all American troops (sorry but your black servicemen have no trouble with hooking up with German women, it drives me crazy even I’m not German) and Jewish control (believe or not, there are over 200.000 Jews living there, almost the half of the pre-WW2 population!).

    The future of Europe lies in Central and Eastern Europe and nowhere else.

  79. Alice Teller's Gravatar Alice Teller
    March 31, 2012 - 5:23 pm | Permalink

    The Last Ditch ( link courtesy of Trenchant ) has an interesting appraisal of the value of Christianity from a non-religious perspective.

  80. Antiyuppie's Gravatar Antiyuppie
    March 31, 2012 - 5:22 pm | Permalink


    “How can people put such faith in Germany?”

    First of all, it must be clear that Germany was kept in this sorry state since 1945 on the tips of American bayonets. The winners of WWII have imposed on the German population the current corrupt political class which Germans (who aleays had a great respect for authority) are continuing to duly elect every 4 years.
    However, times-are-a-changing, the US is in precipitous decline, and will be forced to withdraw and focus on internal ethnic conflicts for decades to come.
    This will create a great vacuum of power all over the World, including Europe. Who will fill it? France? They are in an even worse shape than the US. England? They never had the ambition to lead Europe and with their “balance of power” strategy always pitted one European nation against the other culminating with the World Wars. In addition, they also are geographically off center and demographically/economically in a terrible shape. Italy? c’mon… Spain? No way… The only power to fill the vacuum will be Germany. It has this destiny, as Orban says. I see the future of Europe in a German-Russian alliance (sorry Poland…), German technology and organization and Russian natural resources and space. That’s why faith in Germany is realistic. I also see Germany regaining its pride and self-respect once the current political elite is swept from power…
    Regarding acusations of Anti-Americanism – unfortunately, US is currently the main Jewish instrument of power in the world. The Israel/US duo reminds me of that old Mell Gibson movie where there was a master-blaster simbiotic character, Jews being masters and the US – the blaster, a bully that unflinchingly does his masters bidding. You can see this everywhere. From the US vetoing anti-Israel UN security council vetoes, to bludgeoning the Swiss Banks into paying “compensation” to Jews, to becoming a Jewish remote-controlled pitbull in the Middle East (Kuwait, Iraq, soon Iran?). Therefore, the decline of US power will bring a decline of Jewish power and in that sense it might be seen desirable for our race.

  81. Bobby's Gravatar Bobby
    March 31, 2012 - 5:04 pm | Permalink

    @Alice Teller: Alice, says,
    “if any of us live under civilized standards and conditions it is because we are coasting on Christian capital.”

    Bingo Alice! I would think this is a truth so obvious, that even people that have studied European history and are non-believers would see the truth of this. It’s been the glue that held together Western civilization, in my opinion.

  82. Bobby's Gravatar Bobby
    March 31, 2012 - 4:53 pm | Permalink

    @candida: candida, excellent post. I’m afraid I’ve had the same misgivings about Germany. For one thing, you’d think the youth in that nation would have woken up by now, but it hasn’t.

  83. Tom's Gravatar Tom
    March 31, 2012 - 4:52 pm | Permalink


    Is Orban a Protestant? There is an old and strong tradition of Protestantism in Hungary going back to the Reformation. Hungarian Protestantism is almost Scotch in nature, very close to the Reform or Presbyterian churches. About 25% of Hungarians are members of the Hungarian Reformed Church.

  84. Bobby's Gravatar Bobby
    March 31, 2012 - 4:46 pm | Permalink

    @blue rose: rose don’t be too hard on this man. You yourself have pointed out the miserable state Western Europe is in with political correctness. People like Victor Orban, are the brave ones to even bring up these topics, and it’s especially true in his case being prime minister.

  85. Bobby's Gravatar Bobby
    March 31, 2012 - 4:42 pm | Permalink

    Leave it to a clear seeing Hungarian to get right to the point. It’s incredible that so small a nation, could have had so many noble prize winners.

  86. Henry Baxley's Gravatar Henry Baxley
    March 31, 2012 - 4:39 pm | Permalink

    We will know very soon if you are correct.

  87. Henry Baxley's Gravatar Henry Baxley
    March 31, 2012 - 4:19 pm | Permalink


    It “sounds like” exactly what he said. If you don’t want to answer the mans question, just ignore it. I have no problem in answering I would rather live in a white society minus Christianity….and it’s evil step-mama Judeism

  88. Alice Teller's Gravatar Alice Teller
    March 31, 2012 - 3:44 pm | Permalink

    i won’t debate your interpretation of Christianity in the west. I think the long history is more complex that can be discussed here.
    I thank you for the info on the Eastern Orthodox history. I really know very little about it. I have enjoyed most of the articles here on Eastern European history, including this one.
    In my ignorance, I think of Hungary as being quite exotic. I was struck with a sense of affinity with the subject. It reminded me how much all Christians really do share despite apparent differences.

  89. Alice Teller's Gravatar Alice Teller
    March 31, 2012 - 3:31 pm | Permalink

    Good to know you are not against me. All I have ever done to you is to point out that you do not accord Americans the same courtesy you demand for yourself and Germany.

  90. blue rose's Gravatar blue rose
    March 31, 2012 - 2:16 pm | Permalink


    My longer comment to you is inexplicably ‘on moderation’, so I just wanted to see if this part of it goes through without a hassle:

    I did a google (just in case) to see if any images of Orban showed him giving the devil’s horns Illuminati hand sign. All his pictures show him using hand gestures in a normal fashion. This intuits to me a man who is sincere in what he is saying, and a man who is not ruled by a secret agenda of a cabal or secret society.

  91. March 31, 2012 - 1:46 pm | Permalink

    @Alice Teller: Hitler, pre WWII, opined that the US was Judaized to a great extent.
    Of course we can’t speak about the observations of him, whose name must not be spoken, even if they are true.

    I believe the context in which European was speaking, is the little we are taught about the Byzantine Empire. It is ridiculed as not having kept up with the times and having unnecessarily complex rules.
    What is never allowed to be discussed, is that Constantine took his version of Christianity to Byzantium and founded the longest standing empire in the West using 3 simple rules: 1) keep the Jews out of banking; 2) keep the Jews out of Government; and 3) keep the Jews out of education. Another way of looking at it is that the Orthodox Church recognizes the Jews as enemies. The Orthodox Church in Russia pre 1917 was influential. The slaughter of the Orthodox Christians by the Jewish banking-run communists post 1917 is no accident. It was payback.
    Our “Christian” West is in tune with the long ago Jewish infiltrated Roman Church, and the warping of the original Protestant Reformation message. Luther wrote “THE JEWS AND THEIR LIES” after studying the Talmud. “THE TRADITIONS OF THE JEWS” by Johann Andreas Eisenmenger was written in the mid 1700s and it too warns of deceit. These two books alone would be enough for a Jewish revenge on Germany. Our problem is, no one listened when there was still time to stop the take over. When he, whose name must not be spoken, told the truth, the annihilation was on, and the total take over was completed.
    The original teachings of Christianity are valid. Its influence on the development of Western civilization and all that made it great, are undeniable.
    The Crusades were not about keeping the “Holy Land” for Jews. They were about keeping the “Holy Land” Christian and, to a great extent, White.

    Russia has legitimized the Orthodox Church as being critical to Russian history and cultural development, as well as stressed their importance to the new Russia. This is a form of Crusade, as the Jewish oligarchs, and their underlings, have been unofficially declared the enemy, and are in Putin’s crosshairs. That is why there is constant demonization of Russia in the Jewish controlled MSM.

    If we were able to return to the 3 simple rules of Byzantium, we would be on the right road.

  92. Sindbad's Gravatar Sindbad
    March 31, 2012 - 1:46 pm | Permalink

    @fender: “Would you rather live in an all-White society without Christianity, or a Christian multicultural society?’ IT’S A FALSE DILEMA. Actually the question sounds like “Would you rather live in a multicultural society without Christianity or a Christian all white society”

  93. European's Gravatar European
    March 31, 2012 - 1:45 pm | Permalink

    @Henry Baxley:

    Henry, you have every right to criticize the History of Christianity. I’ve done that myself, but after doing so we can learn from the History of the past, unlike Jews who repeat and have lived by the script of chooseness.
    The European races are capable of learning from History and make the changes neccessary. European Christianity has never beliefed in a literal return or state of Israel, most of the Jews before WWII did not belief this either, but a small band of educated Zionists. Christianity can do the same outrages thing in a positive direction securing the survival of all whites, as well of other races who are, I repeat, not bend toward our destruction for their survival.
    It may have to get worse here first, breaking the egos of various group identities, and then we will see who will be fit to survive into the future. That is what natural selection will do.

  94. blue rose's Gravatar blue rose
    March 31, 2012 - 1:07 pm | Permalink


    You are right. I had a similar feeling about Orban while reading Stuyvesant’s article, that Orban seemed to have a double mind about the EU. I realized, when it comes to world leaders and leaders of countries, they cannot just do whatever they want to do and cannot have things they way they may want to have them.

    I did a google (just in case) to see if any images of Orban showed him giving the devil’s horns Illuminati hand sign. All his pictures show him using hand gestures in a normal fashion. This intuits to me a man who is sincere in what he is saying, and a man who is not ruled by a secret agenda of a cabal or secret society.

    But still Orban must be careful what he says because in his rarefied world a single incautious word can have grave damages.

    I read from wiki that Hungary is not, in fact, yet a part of the EU. I gather that Hungary is in some sort of preparation stage, preparing itself to meet EU requirements. I would be sad to see Hungary become an EU nation. They will have to have open borders. It sounds like a charming country the way it is. One only wishes Orban could throw caution to the wind and tell the EU to take a hike. So, googling ‘Viktor Orban and the EU’ brought up a few items about Orban and his actual battle with the EU. I guess Hungary is in need of money and so it considers joining the EU, and that’s the whole extent of it. I don’t have time to read the entire history of every little thing. But one wishes Orban would hold out and not join.

    BBC News – Hungarian PM Viktor Orban denounces EU’s ‘colonialism’
    Dated March 16, 2012

    BBC News – Hungarian PM Viktor Orban denounces EU’s ‘colonialism’
    Dated March 15, 2012

  95. March 31, 2012 - 12:53 pm | Permalink

    @fender: You are correct. The Morgenthau Plan is still in place.

    I know a number of immigrant Germans, who have been uncomfortable discussing the “history” of their countries, until I openly state that WWII had nothing to do with Hitler’s expansionism rather his economic policy that made international banking irrelevant. It surprises me how much more brainwashed they are compared to the sheeple of North America.

  96. Henry Baxley's Gravatar Henry Baxley
    March 31, 2012 - 12:38 pm | Permalink


    True. All egotheistc religions are manefestations of peoples identity/ego. Some more than others. Thus you have the Jews believing themselves Gods “chosen” people and the Navajos believing they were the “first people”.

    This is Natural and goes toward the Natural goal of self preservation. But when a given religion becomes so paternalistic toward others as to become their self appointed “saviours” as many white “missionaries” and liberal “bleeding hearts” view black people. Then it becomes a natural anomaly and self defeating. It cuts off it’s nose to spite it’s own face, and becomes degenerative and suicidal.
    So.. to claim some sort of special place before God (Nature) because someone painted a beautiful picture or built a big, impressive cathedral is just plain bull****. The ancient Egyptions built the Pyramids. But did that insure for them a special place in the eyes of their God? All it insured was some tourist $$ so people can view the remains of a once great “civilization”

    Also, and furthermore, I would add that at the height of Christianity’s popularity 90% of the populace were illiterate farmers being routinely robbed by the same Big Brother that is still with us today. Only then he had just discovered the “poor, ignorant, savages” of Africa and was chomping at the bit to ‘convert” (hook to plow) them.
    If anyone thinks for one second that the “great” Christian missionary explorer Dr. Stanley Livingston went to Africa because he believed they were his equal they need to spend some time on the streets, and I don’t mean Park Ave. I mean west Dallas, east L.A. or the south side of Chicago
    Then of course you have the “Crusades” that fit of Christian passion that saw torture as a popular pastime for the Preists. and don’t forget the WITCHES! Oh my god! 13 of which were hanged or crushed to death in Salem Mass.
    Or the 12 year old girl who was suffocated by the church “mothers” in order to choke the devil out of her. (this happend only a few years ago)
    So…I will take a stable, loving, family. And you can keep the Cisteen Chapel and all that other crap.

  97. European's Gravatar European
    March 31, 2012 - 12:33 pm | Permalink

    @Alice Teller:
    I pitty you Alice. You don’t even know me, but you have a big mouth full and the rhetoric is the typical condescending tone toward anyone that criticizes your “Greatest Country in the World”.
    You have the audacity to tell me to go home? FYI I have a perfect right to be here, and when I read you, I get sick that my navy seal son fought for 20 years in your last two wars here. You damn right, I watch over them so they don’t turn out like you, or so many of you here in the US, who have no back-bone to stand up for anything. God forbid my daughter would have a mouth or mind like you, which you must have gotten in Watts or Compton. You be careful, you may have to eat your words of the Greates Nation in the ghettos of your backyard. Focus on getting rid of that notion, and focus on what realy “ails” America and your descendants here for the past 200 years.
    Who do you think you are Mrs Teller? I am making sure that your ignorance and your superiority is refuted, so you can come to your senses if you want to survive as “White”.
    On the other hand maybe you should’nt.

  98. candida's Gravatar candida
    March 31, 2012 - 11:25 am | Permalink

    I don’t want to discourage people but there is absolutely no hope for Germany. You can write it off, perhaps together with the rest of Western Europe. Germans and Germany were entirely destroyed in 1945. Today, people live in some territory incorrectly called Germany that is nothing but a product of occupation and nothing more than a cash cow for the chosen. Politics are like CDs, being pushed in and pulled out as Ernst Zundel states, who was ironically imprisoned by his “own” country, aka FRG.

    Although the FRG is officially a sovereign state, it is ultimately subject to the directives of the United Kingdom, France, and the United States (read Israel). Strictly speaking, the FRG does not have a constitution but is built on a so-called Basic Law (Grundgesetz). German courts have treated the Basic Law as a constitution even though it contains no declaration of constitutional status. The Basic Law declares that it shall lose its on validity as soon as the German people ratify a constitution.

    The saddest part is that although the vast majority of Germans today believe that their country is sovereign, Germany’s exact legal status is ambiguous, for instance, all of her eastern borders need to be revised. The status of Austria has also to be revised.

    I will be the most happy to be leaving this hellhole shortly after six years.

    However, Hungary was very much the contrary. I’ve lived there six month (in a relatively small city in the middle of nowhere :)). People were entirely free of brainwashing, trash culture and multi-kulti indoctrination. They were quite “anti-semitic” and anti-EU. The culture was not damaged, their difficult but fascinating language that I tried my best to learn was not raped by English, unlike for instance, German.
    The most important of all, the country was extremely homogeneous and full of very good-looking white people, apart from the skyrocketing gypsy population who still live quite distant and among themselves. The same is true for most Central and Eastern Europeans.

    I don’t know to what extent the little Hungary can take a stand against international jewry but you can count them in.

  99. Luke's Gravatar Luke
    March 31, 2012 - 10:44 am | Permalink

    @blue rose: Sister Blue Rose, I must applaud you for your excellent and insightful analysis. It is dead on the money.

    Here in America, I’ve had online debates with other Whites within our supposed ‘pro-white’ and/or patriot-jew-wise community and they are every bit as warped, confused, disjointed and contradictory sounding in their arguments, positions and view points as is this Hungarian fellow.
    An example is when certain Whites of modest prominence, such as writers, web podcast hosts or frequent guests on those podcasts – will continually repeat the enemy’s anti-white, white genocide promoting smear word terminology and hurl the words ‘racist’ or ‘white supremacist’ or ‘bigot’ or ‘xenophobe’ or ‘Nazi’ at other members of our own community because they disagree with a specific individual over a certain tactical point or strategy issue.
    These confused individuals will also parrot an amazingly large amount of the jewish media propaganda that has flowed out of Hollywood for the last 50 years that was, and which continues to be, designed to brainwash whites to loathe themselves, loathe their Founding Fathers, loathe their White ancestors, and to wallow in bottomless pools of White guilt and White self-hate and remorse over (a) Defeating the Indians as a necessary objective in order to tame and settle the North American continent and the Western frontier, and (b) Slavery of African blacks, which was primarily restricted to about 4% of the total population of the old South. I’ve found that these two issues, Indians and African slavery are clear indicators of possible enemy infiltration of our movement – so, be on the lookout for them. At the very least, constant harping on these historical issues is an indication of the sort of White racial weakness that we have no need for in our struggle for survival.

    Furthermore, this problem we have within our own White community of helping our enemy by repeating their anti-White slogans, mantras and guilt tripping exercises – needs to be stopped cold. These tactics are clearly designed to intentionally and maliciously create a sense of demoralization within White European men, women and children – and people who are consumed with artificially instilled guilt (over historical events that not one living White man or Woman had any role in) lose their self-confidence and their ability to take their own side in any ethnic argument or conflict. This is equivalent to removing a turtle’s protective shell and then turning the turtle loose to be devoured by his natural enemies.

    In essence: Stop apologizing for being born White. Stop letting other Whites and especially minorities play the race card / race intimidation game against us. And, most important of all – if need be, take a deep snort out of an open bottle of amonia – if that is what it takes to clear our heads and to shake loose of all these contradicatory and inconsistent notions that our enemy has cleverly placed inside our heads.

    Whites have very moral and legitimate and justified right to wish to survive and to secure a future for White children.
    So, if you hear anyone in our community using the verbal arsenal of our #1 enemy against their own community, then that individual needs to be pounced upon and challenged on their tactics. And, if they refuse to cease and desist with this – then ostracizing them must be the next logical step.

  100. ethnonationalism's Gravatar ethnonationalism
    March 31, 2012 - 9:55 am | Permalink

    As for the role of Christianity in Europe, it is significant.
    It was a unifying force to which many European nations owe their existence. What would Norwey be without St. Olav? What would Serbia be without St. Sava? What would Russia be without St. Vladimir?

    And while some think of Christianity as an obstacle to ethnocentrism, it is interesting that leftists tend to see Christianity as a source of ethnocentrism.
    See, for example, Wikipedia’s article on Afrikaner Calvinism:

  101. ethnonationalism's Gravatar ethnonationalism
    March 31, 2012 - 9:40 am | Permalink

    Orban said: “Germany has a destiny, and one can not choose his destiny.”

    This is a typical Calvinist way of thinking (total predestination).

  102. Alice Teller's Gravatar Alice Teller
    March 31, 2012 - 8:59 am | Permalink

    That is rich coming from you! I do not need you to tell me what ails us. Both America and I are able to struggle along without you. It is not hateful to refuse to accept insults from guests without protest. I suggest you take your own advice, given to a visitor to Germany – if you don’t like the way things are done – go home.

  103. katana's Gravatar katana
    March 31, 2012 - 8:27 am | Permalink

    fender wrote:
    March 30, 2012 – 5:34 pm

    Today’s Germans are refuse, leftovers. All the good ones died on the battlefield or in Soviet gulags. War is inherently dysgenic– the best are always the ones who die. The ones who remain are weaklings and cowards.

    Germans still exist, but there’s no German nation, just an internationalist cabal that rules over Germans and is quickly breeding them out of existence. Same thing with America and the west in general; there are no nations to speak of, just people lining up for their racial and spiritual demise in the kosher slaughterhouse.

    I think there is some exaggerated truth in what you say.

    But what of solutions?
    What do you see as a way out of your observations?

    For me, the unbelievable sacrifices the German people made in the war gives me great optimism, despite the fact that the following generations have been brainwashed to hate themselves.

    As most readers know the the main Magic Spell that the Chosen Ones, aka organized jewery have cast upon us gullible Whites (goys) is the holohoax, officially called the ‘Holocaust’.

    We need to break this poisonous Holohoax Spell. This can easily be done by everyone daring to read the Revisionists. I dare you!

    Now, for the sake of argument, let us assume that the Germans actually committed the ‘holocaust’. ‘Six million’, is small fry compared to the jew run Soviet Union murder machine. But we only hear silence about that crime.

  104. Henry Baxley's Gravatar Henry Baxley
    March 31, 2012 - 7:33 am | Permalink

    Why would a Christian regularly visit a site dedicated to evolutionary psychology?
    Why do children raised in a particular religion usually grow up to become followers/believers in that same religion?
    Why did the Egyption God Of “Rah” which lasted 5,000 years fall out of favor?
    Why did Christians slaughter each other in BOTH world wars?
    Why are Christians the #1 consumers of pornography?
    Why didn’t Christ ever write anything down?
    Could the average U.S. cavalryman defeat the average Comanche soldier armed only with a sword and Christianity?
    Why do the vast majority of Christians support the death penalty?
    Why do the vast majority of Christians support those who Christ himself denounced?
    Why am I even talking???

  105. Hooper's Gravatar Hooper
    March 31, 2012 - 3:30 am | Permalink

    I have traveled to Hungary several times over the last few years and while I don’t speak the language or have anything resembling an insider’s view of the place, I have always gotten the impression that civilization is more or less intact there, a feeling I don’t necessarily get in most of Western Europe.

    The Hungarians seem to have some sort of innate resistance to some of more egregious manifestations of our current malaise: the country is still overwhelmingly white and seems to have a sense of national identity with a little more substance than in much of the rest of Europe. They have also preserved their architectural heritage as well or better than anyone which I happen to think is very important.

    Hungary went through its own period of being subjected to a hostile, Jew-dominated leftist elite and seems to have emerged with less chaos or psychological damage than say, Russia.

    I know this is a bit superficial but I have really enjoyed the ‘urban life’ in Budapest during my time there: the opera and many wonderful symphonies, old world cafes, beautiful architecture. Sure, it’s not what it was during the glory years of the Habsburgs and maybe it’s a bit done up for show in certain places, but nevertheless, it seems like European life lives on as best it can there.

    Fender raises the key question. Can Hungary hold out against the juggernaut aimed against it? We’ll see but I think it has a puncher’s chance.

  106. Sindbad's Gravatar Sindbad
    March 31, 2012 - 2:42 am | Permalink

    @blue rose: Maybe Orban is so soft on EU because he cannot attack it directly from top to the base. In this moment with so many apathic and weak europeans and with so powerfull Eu institution a direct challange against EU will end in a disaster. So orban must be cautios and for that he speaks implicit and not explicit. Possible he veil he is true aims. Do you know something more about Orban? or about what “picture of Sorban”?

  107. European's Gravatar European
    March 31, 2012 - 1:39 am | Permalink

    @Alice Teller:

    Alice, I am not Anti-American, it seems to me you don’t want to hear what ails you. So continue on.! You do deserve my humble post and my opinion, since you are one of those hateful people without a cause. What a pitty!

  108. European's Gravatar European
    March 31, 2012 - 1:32 am | Permalink
  109. Alice Teller's Gravatar Alice Teller
    March 31, 2012 - 12:58 am | Permalink

    Considering your long history here of anti-America remarks, you continue to live among us while simultaneously demanding that anyone who does not think that Germany is perfect should get out, you really do not deserve the courtesy of a reply.

    Never the less, please note that the discussion is about Europe and Christianity. Only European countries have ever been all white. America has been multi-racial since our inception. Despite that, America has preserved Christianity far better than western Europe. I do not know enough to address eastern Europe.

    Europe was the home and guardian of Christianity. They did not preserve it and have offered no viable alternative. That is why there are no more all white countries.

  110. European's Gravatar European
    March 31, 2012 - 12:39 am | Permalink

    Alice Teller: @Europeans have offered no viable alternative. That is why we are descending into barbarism and slavery.

    Alice, I am not against you, but that is an outrages statement. Where is your responsibility here in the US for your own country and demise? Why is it Europe’s fault, when the US placates its “being the greates Nation on Earth etc” to the world, and at which… all kinds of Nations are trying to emulate the US life style and democracy etc? The world has looked to the US for answers to their problems, took on the US style, and are finding that the solution was another step down hill. Now it is Europa’s fault? I’ve always said along with the American Freedom there Should be a big Statue “The American Responsibility”
    Hand in Hand with Freedom.

  111. European's Gravatar European
    March 31, 2012 - 12:25 am | Permalink

    @Henry Baxley:
    Henry, you see Christianity from your ” American Christianity * viewpoint. European Christianity was different then the now US Christianity, or at least it was before WWII.
    The problem is you judge Christianity by your own (world)view of Christianity, which is quite narrow. You have no clue about the various European and Eastern Orthodox Christianities for the past 2000 years and how it lived along Judaism in constant rivalry for legitmacy. You are allowed here to express your own humble opinion as I am. We heard you, some will stand with you, and for others you sound absurd. Europeans are very much Christianized. Underneath it every authentic European from what ever Country, knows this. I also belief they know that their survival will depend on retaining Christianity as their Myth Religion. It could not continue the way it was going, along with Judaism/Jews, so each had to become, becoming, is, or was undone. But who is the most just now after each Rival has had its magnitute of losses, and we are still losing? Christianity also has a strong myth within the European people. They know how they are hated by the other. Who’s myth is more just ultimately! Even though they overlap in many areas, it will be Christianity, if there is a fighting spirit still left in any Christian, as we will allow them to have their religion as long as they are not adamant in destroying ours, meaning us. White by itself has little chance in Europe, it is not enough, and it will never have the power that Religion, a myth, or a God can give to man. This has often been said here in various ways. But you do not hear or acknowledge the validity of their claim. It also has become a matter of the “Will”, to find alternatives. You have 2000 years, more or less to prove you have a better way, or solution.
    That is your loss!

  112. ben's Gravatar ben
    March 30, 2012 - 11:38 pm | Permalink

    Orban IS doing something right… he got the jew MEP Daniel Cohn-Bendit lose it in the European Parliament recently. Especially due to Orbans alledged “censorship” international left-wing media in hungary.

    incidentally, that very same jew is on record advocating paedophilia live on french tv

  113. Alice Teller's Gravatar Alice Teller
    March 30, 2012 - 11:35 pm | Permalink

    Try to pay attention. I am not playing make a wish. I am talking about history. The facts are that there is no all-white society and has not been since the collapse of Christianity in Europe. White countries and Christianity were perfectly compatible, in fact, were completely intertwined for a millennium.

    Christianity has not had the same effect in Africa, although I have no doubt that it made improvements. Western culture, as it existed, is the marriage of Christianity and European man. Nothing can change that.

  114. fender's Gravatar fender
    March 30, 2012 - 11:10 pm | Permalink

    @Alice Teller:

    Would you rather live in an all-White society without Christianity, or a Christian multicultural society? Don’t forget most blacks and hispanics are Christians.

  115. Henry Baxley's Gravatar Henry Baxley
    March 30, 2012 - 11:08 pm | Permalink

    @Alice Teller: @Alice Teller:

    “I do not think I can reach you with logic”

    …..Give it a try Alice. You never know.

  116. Henry Baxley's Gravatar Henry Baxley
    March 30, 2012 - 11:02 pm | Permalink

    Off topic;
    My niece and most of her stupid friends have all bought lottery tickets for the multi-mega-mucho etc drawing. How many of you know that the lottery is nothing more than an idiot tax levied against the poorest of the poor? And one of the things Hitler critisized in Mein Kampf as being a result of Jewish influnced democracy (parlamentarianism, as it was known then I think)

  117. Alice Teller's Gravatar Alice Teller
    March 30, 2012 - 11:01 pm | Permalink

    @Henry Baxley:
    If you believe that we do not live in a Jewish culture, I do not think I can reach you with logic.

    I will not argue with you here about the merits or liabilities of Christianity. I merely state a simple historical fact. If any of us live under civilized standards and conditions it is because we are coasting on Christian capital. Europeans have offered no viable alternative. That is why we are descending into barbarism and slavery.

  118. Alice Teller's Gravatar Alice Teller
    March 30, 2012 - 10:54 pm | Permalink

    You can malign your mother, that doesn’t change the fact that she is your mother. You may wish history was different, that does not make it so.

  119. Henry Baxley's Gravatar Henry Baxley
    March 30, 2012 - 10:35 pm | Permalink

    @Alice Teller:
    The Jews live in a Jewish culture….we live in a multi-culture, set up for us by the Jews, with the blessing of Christians.

  120. fender's Gravatar fender
    March 30, 2012 - 10:34 pm | Permalink

    @Alice Teller:

    Christianity is Jewish culture. How many White Europeans do you learn about in Sunday school?

  121. Henry Baxley's Gravatar Henry Baxley
    March 30, 2012 - 10:30 pm | Permalink

    I will give Christianity credit for ENHANCING AND SPREADING Civilization among the homogeneous peoples of Europe but with the mixing of cultures, races resulting from modernity it became a liability. “Love your neighbor” was good among homogeneous people, when your neighbor meant the other white people down the road…everyone in the world is not your neighbor.

  122. Alice Teller's Gravatar Alice Teller
    March 30, 2012 - 10:27 pm | Permalink

    @Henry Baxley:
    Yes, Western Civilization began in ancient Greece. That does not alter the subsequent story. You can reject Christianity, but it is undeniable that for nearly 2000 years it was the major inspiration and guiding force in Europe. It is infused in the arts, language, literature, customs and therefore the minds of Europe. It has sustained staggering blows and has therefore often failed. We have failed along with it. We live in a Jewish culture, there is only the remnants of European culture without it.

  123. Henry Baxley's Gravatar Henry Baxley
    March 30, 2012 - 10:07 pm | Permalink

    @Alice Teller:

    “We have declined along with Christianity”

    Both have declined in reverse proportion to technology and the orther false Gods that came with it, equality, democracy, diversity etc.

  124. Henry Baxley's Gravatar Henry Baxley
    March 30, 2012 - 10:00 pm | Permalink

    @Henry Baxley:

    The falacy of Christianity=civilization is evident in Africa. since the arrival of Christianity what 500 years ago? the continent is still uncivilized to say the least. I suppose a lot depends on what is meant by the term “civilization”

  125. fender's Gravatar fender
    March 30, 2012 - 9:54 pm | Permalink

    @Nick West:

    “I believe it’s true that without Christianity there really is no Europe.”

    No. Without Europeans, there is no Europe.

    ” Without Christianity there really is no western culture at all.”

    Western Culture began with The Iliad.

  126. Henry Baxley's Gravatar Henry Baxley
    March 30, 2012 - 9:43 pm | Permalink

    @Alice Teller:
    Sorry, western civilization was born in the middle east before Christ was even born.

  127. Alice Teller's Gravatar Alice Teller
    March 30, 2012 - 8:54 pm | Permalink

    @Henry Baxley:
    White people are a necessary but evidently not sufficient condition for western culture. It is undeniable that we have declined along with Christianity. A am not asking you to accept the truth of Christianity, merely pointing out an historic fact.

  128. Whites Unite's Gravatar Whites Unite
    March 30, 2012 - 8:51 pm | Permalink

    @Blue Rose

    Read Paul Gottfried’s article “The National Question in Hungary” at

    Obran is an authentic nationalist and social conservative.

  129. Henry Baxley's Gravatar Henry Baxley
    March 30, 2012 - 8:19 pm | Permalink

    @Nick West:
    “Without Christianity there is no western culture”
    Correction; without white people there is no western culture.

  130. icr's Gravatar icr
    March 30, 2012 - 8:13 pm | Permalink

    He still committed plenty of thought crimes in that interview-and he certainly made the German journalistic team very uncomfortable. If you go overboard you’ll be dismissed as a loon.

  131. Henry Baxley's Gravatar Henry Baxley
    March 30, 2012 - 8:10 pm | Permalink

    @Henry Baxley:

    Disregard the last four words in the above post…I have no idea where they came from!?!?

  132. Henry Baxley's Gravatar Henry Baxley
    March 30, 2012 - 8:06 pm | Permalink

    Who is Big Brother?

    Some call him Jew, others call him Illuminatti, some prefer the term International Banksters, Facists, Communists, Liberals, etc. But who is he really?

    He is all the above certainly, but what do they all have in common….?

    So, whether its a Jew trying to promote “democracy and free speach”
    A Christian trying to save the “African Savages”
    Or a Politician trying to “save everybody”
    They all want to help you in some way. But there is a problem…….

    There is certainly some

  133. Henry Baxley's Gravatar Henry Baxley
    March 30, 2012 - 7:27 pm | Permalink

    @blue rose:
    “After bemoaning whatever it was he was bemoaning…)

    Its called “doublespeak” where they talk for an hour without actually saying anything. in this way they can get elected by being “all things to all people”

    Democracy; Government of the lowest common denomenator.

  134. Nick West's Gravatar Nick West
    March 30, 2012 - 6:48 pm | Permalink

    International finance and central banking pretty much destroys every nation state. The bankers have been running the show for a long time, it’s just that people are finally waking up to it. I believe it’s true that without Christianity there really is no Europe. Without Christianity there really is no western culture at all.

  135. blue rose's Gravatar blue rose
    March 30, 2012 - 5:36 pm | Permalink

    ‘Sorban’ should be ‘Orban’. Sorry about that. Tsk.

  136. fender's Gravatar fender
    March 30, 2012 - 5:34 pm | Permalink


    People have faith in Germany because for some reason people think Germans are “smart,” despite the fact that they’re not even smart enough to understand their own history.

    As far as I’m concerned Germany was thoroughly destroyed in 1945, its leaders and intellectuals executed, its beautiful architecture and cities ravaged by pig-ignorant Soviets and Americans.

    Today’s Germans are refuse, leftovers. All the good ones died on the battlefield or in Soviet gulags. War is inherently dysgenic– the best are always the ones who die. The ones who remain are weaklings and cowards.

    Germans still exist, but there’s no German nation, just an internationalist cabal that rules over Germans and is quickly breeding them out of existence. Same thing with America and the west in general; there are no nations to speak of, just people lining up for their racial and spiritual demise in the kosher slaughterhouse.

  137. Sven's Gravatar Sven
    March 30, 2012 - 5:06 pm | Permalink

    How can people put such faith in Germany? Aren’t they the most anti-nationalist country of them all? Isn’t NDP performing ridiculously bad in elections and polls as compared to other nationalist parties in Europe? And let’s not even talk about the German birth rates, yikes…

    I don’t know that much about Germany so if anyone thinks there is reason to believe Germany will rise again, please enlighten me.

  138. fender's Gravatar fender
    March 30, 2012 - 5:04 pm | Permalink

    @Mickey Meadows:

    Nein, Deutschland ist kaputt. The Israelis are flocking there right now and you can be sure they all have vengeance burning in their hearts. Even if Germany somehow manages to survive the flood of Muslims they won’t survive the flood of Jews. The tribe lost their grip once on them in the past, and they won’t lose it again. I would say Russia is probably Europe’s only hope. That isn’t saying much, because Russia is completely dysfunctional, but that’s how I see it.

  139. blue rose's Gravatar blue rose
    March 30, 2012 - 5:03 pm | Permalink

    After reading this confused and meaningless conversation with the Hungarian prime minister Viktor Orban, it appears he is simply in a state of double-mindedness.

    After bemoaning whatever it was he was bemoaning, he is still in favor of being a part of the European Union — the one entity that is destroying the destiny and individuality each of the European nations that belong to it.

    Orban says, “Europeans have been deprived of the means to shape their own future,…”. Duh, really? What future or individual identity does Hungary, or any other EU nation have when they must follow EU dictates of open borders and a host of ‘human rights’ EU laws? And it seems pretty much agreed in Europe these days that the high cost of living is due to the EURO.

    He complains about the Socialist party there, how there is tax evasion fraud and the number of people who work are far fewer that the millions being propped up by the government. But these issues are intertwined with EU ‘human rights’ policy. These issues certainly are in England, where the massive third worlder influx sees to it they get on the public dole, or they take it to the European Commission. Even though England is not a member of the EU, somehow it marginally is, but even this has caused the UK its share of internal problems with third world influx and propping them up, to the near exclusion of being of any help to its own citizens.

    Sorban says, ” there are fewer than 50 individual cases in which we are engaged in discussion with the [European] Commission. The Germans have almost 100 cases in disagreement with the Commission, the French have even more cases. Are they now less European than we are? Of course not. As long as we can keep the discussion in this context, there are no problems. Such discussions are commonplace in the EU. But some argue that we have violated the European spirit. They say it could be true that the solutions in Hungary are legally acceptable, but they are nevertheless contrary to the European spirit. What should I do with such an opinion? I am elected, the Hungarian government was elected, the European Parliament was also elected. But who has elected the European Commission? Where is their democratic legitimacy? And to whom is the European Parliament accountable? ‘ This is fine and dandy, but I cannot understand why Sorban is still in favor of being a member of the EU.

    For all Sorban is worth, Peter Stuyvesant ought to have dug deep and tried to find a picture of Sorban giving the International Illuminati/NWO Elite devil’s horns hand signal for a picture, instead of the one that’s there.

  140. Bear's Gravatar Bear
    March 30, 2012 - 4:56 pm | Permalink

    The tragedy of European Nationalism is that it wasn’t actually particularly antithical to the other European groups; conflicts were the outcome of pre-democratic power play by Europes monarchies (including Britains) and poor leadership with the fall out of the Franco-Prussian war perhaps the clearest problem. Kaiser Wilhelm II comes across as a rather well meaning though flawed character in rencent biographies: he who wanted to have his German engineers build a huge rail network expanding out from contstantinople to Madras and into the gulf. He wanted to modernise and westernise the people of the middle east with his peacefull imperilism. Big threat to the elites of Russia, Britain and France. The formation of the state of Kuwait with British assistance to prevent a port terminus is fall out we are still suffering from. The “Belin Baghdad Express” and “The Russian Origin of WW1″ expand on this. The spitefull peace of WW1 then created an intollerable situation in Germany that tore us apart again, destroyed us morally. We are sill suffering, perhaps terminally from this.

  141. Mickey Meadows's Gravatar Mickey Meadows
    March 30, 2012 - 4:52 pm | Permalink


    It’s like the guys says – Germany is still the great hope for us all.

  142. fender's Gravatar fender
    March 30, 2012 - 4:43 pm | Permalink

    I like what he has to say but I wonder how little Hungary can fend off the juggernaut of international Jewry and its millions of White leftist servants in government and finance.

  143. Henry Baxley's Gravatar Henry Baxley
    March 30, 2012 - 3:46 pm | Permalink

    If Big Brother senses the herd shifting in a white direction he will suddenly become pro-white…This is a good thing, but never forget who he is!

Comments are closed.