The Forward reports that American Jews still have a very negative view of Christian Zionists (“Jews Cast Wary Eye on Evangelicals“). About 4 in 5 American Jews have unfavorable opinions of the Evangelicals—about the same percentage who voted for Obama in the last election. Indeed, American Jews are far more favorable to Muslims (41.4%) than to Evangelicals.
So why do approximately 80% of American Jews liberal distrust Evangelicals?
Rabbi David Saperstein, head of the Reform movement’s Religious Action Center, said that it is not the Christian right’s beliefs on social issues that pose a problem to the Jewish community — it is their attempt to bring those beliefs to the public sphere.
“The Christian right has a clear agenda for America that it is trying to advance in all levels of American politics, and this has to do with fundamental questions of our existence, such as church and state separation,” Saperstein said. In contrast, Catholics, Mormons and Muslims, as well as Orthodox Jews, have not taken their conservative beliefs beyond their own communities.
Of course, it’s more than fundamental existential questions. Who knew that homosexual marriage and abortion rights (two of the issues mentioned in the article as dividing liberal Jews and Evangelicals) pose existential threats for Jews? Saperstein concludes that it’s okay for liberal Jews to advocate the their liberal social agenda in the public square. But Conservatives should be restricted to discussing these issues among themselves. I guess the idea is that the ethnic motivations of liberal Jews are just fine, but the religious motives of Christian Evangelicals are illegitimate.
From the far left to the neoconservative right, liberalism on social and cultural issues defines the Jewish community in America. And since liberal Jews are well entrenched in all of the elite positions in the media, the academic world, the political process, and personal wealth, their negative attitude about Christians evangelicals is a very important aspect of the theme of Jews as an elite hostile to the traditional people and culture of America.
One would think that at some point Christian Evangelicals would wake up and realize that the organized Jewish community and the vast majority of Jews are not their friend and are pursuing very different interests in the public square. One can sense the anxiety among the Jews who lead the organizations dedicated to promoting Christian support for Israel. David Brog, executive director of Christians United for Israel, America’s largest evangelical pro-Israel organization says that “We in the Jewish community need to stop viewing the present through the lens of the traumatic past.” I suspect that Brog is simply less candid than his liberal co-ethnics. His dedication to the cause of Israel trumps his fear and loathing of the Christian majority—at least in public.
One reason to think that is that Brog’s favorite country, Israel, is doing all it can to prevent public discussion of the fate of Palestinian Christians living in apartheid Israel. Brog knows full well what is happening to the Christian community in Israel, but would never mention that to his Christian constituents.
Recently 60 Minutes did a program (available on Mediaite) presenting a fairly balanced account of the displacement of Palestinian Christians. For example, Palestinian Christians describe the traditionally Christian city of Bethlehem as an “open-air prison,” and they completely reject US Ambassador Michael Oren’s claim that Muslim Palestinians are responsible for the decline of Christianity. It’s one of those little tidbits that get through the fog once in a while, this one courtesy of Bob Simon, a Jewish reporter for 60 Minutes.
It’s not surprising, then, that Oren, did all he could to derail the piece, but ultimately failed. Nevertheless, he was able to spew his fabrications in a Wall Street Journal op-ed, and he may have had some influence on the 60 Minutes piece: A source in Prime Minister Netanyahu’s office claims that “the wording was much softer than in the original version.” Nevertheless, I think most people viewing the segment would think that Oren came across as dishonest when his statements clearly contradicted the statements of the Palestinian clergy.
Paul Woodward has a nice blog on the incident, noting that Oren highlighted an example of presumably Arab vandalism against a Christian Church in 1994 to support his case that Muslims are pushing out the Christians, while ignoring the routine spitting on Christian clergy by yeshiva students and a recent example where a Christian church was defaced with Hebrew writing, as seen here:
Caption from Woodward’s blog: ‘Jesus is the son of a whore,’ ‘we will crucify you,’ ‘Jesus is dead’ and ‘death to Christianity’ were among messages left behind by vandals who attacked the Baptist Narkis Street Congregation in West Jerusalem on February 20.
One certainly can’t claim that the hostility toward Christianity exhibited by Jews in Israel has anything to do with issues like abortion, women’s rights, homosexuality, and the separation of church and state. It’s far more atavistic than that. Hatred of Christianity is the mother’s milk of Judaism—the fear and loathing that Jewish writers like Elliott Abrams have discussed: The American Jewish community “clings to what is at bottom a dark vision of America, as a land permeated with anti-Semitism and always on the verge of anti-Semitic outbursts.” It’s the knee-jerk reaction of Rabbi Joshua Hammerman who was terrified that Tim Tebow’s success as a quarterback would lead to pogroms against Jews (see here).
But that’s what it’s about these days for Michael Oren and the rest of the organized Jewish community: all lies all the time. Unfortunately, our Evangelical brethren are falling for them—hook, line, and sinker.
Facing the Future as a Minority
Was the Immigration Act of 1924 Illiberal?
As an evangelical Christian myself, I think that ultimately we will come to our senses. Call it the James Baker moment, when he famously said, “Fu$&^*&^% the jews, they don’t vote for us anyway!” There is no reason beyond the flimsy God’s chosen people doctrine and friend of Israel doctrine. However, I have sat in Baptist churches and heard prominent PhD’s (or DD’s?) proclaim that Christians are now God’s chosen people. All we talk about in church is Jesus and how he is necessary for salvation.
Take I Corintians 15:12-19.
12 But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14 And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15 More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19 If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied.
Even if you non-Christians do not buy those verses, I assure you that Christians do so. It basically says that if Christ was not raised from the dead, the foundational belief of Christainity and authentication of Jesus’s deity, them we Christians are to be pitied for our ignorance and wasted time following him. Obviously, this is exactly what the jews believe in rejecting Christ. So how in the hell can they be God’s chosen people???
the days when Israel could count on unconditional support from evangelicals may be coming to an end…
http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/97155/christians-for-palestine/
That’s a false flag. Jews know that evangelical Christians embrace integration, civil rights, Diversity, and “the other”.
Christians are talmudic. Jews won.
Where can you go in the South to a Christian church that isn’t competing for more negro members?
They first sing in the choir, then serve on the vestry, then chair the search committee, then their pick is the new negro priest, then he appoints them to the finance committee, then the money gets “misallocated through sloppy bookkeeping errors. but let’s not dwell on the past”.
The Anglican bishops won’t let you take their photo until they’ve surrounded themselves with voodoo negroid Diversity first.
“They told me I needed to reach out to the beloved community of color. I asked them why. They said because I was getting a reputation as a suspect racist because my church was all White. I asked them what was wrong with being a racist. They didn’t have a good answer, and started sputtering about the Klan and Hitler. I told them that racism had saved my life many times, and since they were White and still alive, it was working for them, too. The meeting ended abruptly.”
-Rev. Jed DeValleyism, “The truth behind ‘church growth’ opportunities,” 1996
In the middle east Christianity is almost entirely one version of Catholicism, Orthodoxy, or another. The adherents are Arabs and used to comprise not many decades ago at least one third of the Palestinian population, for example. Now the biggest population of Christians is in Syria I have heard, since the Turks have driven out the Arab Christians from liminal areas and the Christians in Iraq had to flee as well. “Despot” Assad apparently welcomed them in a show of “tolerance” that never earned him any goodwill with the jewish-operated fedgov.
In the middle east, physically and on the ground, “evangelicals” mostly travel in Israeli organized junkets where they prattle on to the gullible boobs about jewish kibbutzes “turning the desert green” and other accomplishments mostly funded by the US taxpayer (wihtout attribution of course).
I do not generally talk to evangelicals but when I have, it seems like they are totally ignorant that there is any Christian faith in the middle east at all, and they are most certainly ignorant that those ancient forms predate their owns.
In short, I do not mean to offend anyone, but evangelicals are generally poorly educated and ignorant of the most basic social facts of the middle east.
I just found out, oddly enough, that Francis Shaeffer’s son became a Greek Orthodox. Funny that eh?
And Vlad, no offense, but of course you know the great hero Vlad III “Tepes” of Wallachia was a Roman Catholic who is today mostly remembered and honored by Orthodox.
Any Christian that fails to see his faith as a supedceding of the old Covenant is misunderstanding it. None of the Reformers were under that illusion and certainly not the Orthodox nor Catholics.
Today the lickspittle friendliness of all Christian clerics nicey nicey towards Jews is more a function of their craven moneygrubbing cowardice than any doctrinal feature.
I am not a Christian; I do not believe: I reason.
If the Evangelicals wish to bend at the knee for the Jew and give to him undeserved praise, let us wholly abandon the Evangelicals: they are a burden upon the struggle.
@White Christ Indwelling: There is a quote that I read recently which has Marx saying that it was not so much that the Jews were emancipated but that the Christians are now more Jewish than the Jews.
There is NO Salvation for those who do not believe in Jesus Christ—that means the Jews & other pagans are going to hell forever. It’s that simple. That’s what the evangelists taught! It’s all in the New Testament!
Anyone who tells you that there is salvation other than through belief/faith in Jesus Christ is not a Christian.
Christianity is both a weakness (because of it pan-racial, pan-ethnic universalism) and an advantage because it is a product of the white Western culture.
It is alike Islam in this respect. Islam is the product of the Arabs and, implicitly, has the ethnic-Arabs at its top in an ethnic hierarchy. It is an ideology, a vehicle, for Arab supremacy. ( that’s why the ethnic-Persians, the Iranians, created the Shia branch of Isam, they were an ethnic group conquered by the Arabs who wanted to escape subservience and preserve their race, which they did).
@George Herouvis:
How can you reason except on the basis of prior belief?
@TheRomanian:
Christian Identity, Kinism, Volkishism are really the only alternatives to Christians who want community and refuse to take it with negros and buggering priests and organists.
That was quite a good 60 Minutes piece, and Oren came across as the lying, censoring, reptilian scum that he is. It was unfortunate Simon couldn’t press him a bit further during that interview, especially when he cornered Oren (Bornstein) on pressuring the head of 60 Minutes. I got the sense that that part of the interview was cut, just as things were getting interesting.
Should read alternatives for Christians…
This is the best resource for White Christian Nationalists on the Interent. He posts every Sat. morning by 9 a.m. EST, and reading these has become a church ritual in and of itself for thousands who have fled the MLK worshippers and gay pride festivals in their home parishes.
Even if you are pagan, odin, agnog or atheist, you will feel your pulse quicken and heart warm. This man fights for us against our common enemy.
http://cambriawillnotyield.wordpress.com/2012/03/03/courting-the-friendship-of-the-wicked/
I’ve said it I don’t know how many times; these evanlegicals are so stupid that a box of rocks comes off better in the intelligence department.
@George Herouvis: That’s just stupid, George. We need to change the evangelicals, because once they see the light and 2000 years of obvious church doctrine, they will see that Christianity is the true church, and anyone who says that Jews can go to heaven without jesus is essentially condemning them to hell, and teaching false doctrine. Jews need to convert or suffer the consequences – perhaps that is why “some” were allowed to die at the hands of the Nazis, to prove they were not God’s chosen people?
@Scott: I saw that program, and I was amazed at Mr. Simons tenacity in getting to the real issue. He came off showing the concern that reporters should show, but never do in this nation, when it comes to issues that so greatly affect the U.S. and its citizens.
Even though I don’t trust Jews, the ‘good Rabbi’ has a legitimate point:
“Rabbi David Saperstein, head of the Reform movement’s Religious Action Center, said that it is not the Christian right’s beliefs on social issues that pose a problem to the Jewish community — it is their attempt to bring those beliefs to the public sphere.”
While it is true that liberal and neocon Jews push their group interests into the public sphere, it’s never couched as religious issues. Most liberal Jews are ethnically Jewish, not religiously Jewish, and so they’re not pushing for Jewish prayers in schools or displaying the Torah in some court; or trying to force geology classes to teach Moses’s splitting of the Red Sea as an actual event.
So, if the Christian Right wants to push its values and agenda, the issues must be couched as social or political issues, not religious issues. But the Christian Right wants school prayer and teaching of Creationism in schools! Even I don’t want the stupid Christian Right to force students in science class to learn about ‘creationism’, which is pure superstition.
The Christian Right is foolish in supporting Jews, but DO NOT THINK think Evangelicals are on our side. They are opposed to abortion on religious grounds, even though abortion is actually, by all objective measures, good for the white race since it cuts down on black birthrates. Would you rather spend $500 on aborting a black child or $500,000 on raising that child.. who will likely grow up to be a criminal or take your job via affirmative action?
And most Evangelicals, as staunch opponents of Darwinism and evolution, reject the reality of racial differences and say that everyone of every race is equally the ‘child of God’ and all that deracinating blah blah. Their ideology is pure ‘anti-race-ism’. And Christian Right wants more blacks to attend their church and more black male Christians to have babies with white female Christians.
So, what we must try to do is turn the children of the Christian Right to rationalism, reason, science, and sense so that they can come to see the light and support abortion rights(to keep down Negro numbers) and to accept evolution, which explains why Jews are smarter than whites(thus an intellectual threat to whites) and why blacks are tougher than whites(thus a physical threat to whites).
The White Right’s appeal to the Evangelicals is as foolhardy as the Evangelical appeals to Jews.
Whatever one may say about these Evangelicals, they are the only Protestants that still believe in something.
Here in Europe, Protestantism is more or less dead.
Even some countries that were once majority Protestant (like Germany and the Netherlands), now have more Catholics than Protestants.
The reason for this is that most of the Protestants became atheists. Particularly the Lutherans.
We can now say for sure that Lutheranism is dead.
I can add one more thing. Protestantism has always been an unstable movement, with constant schisms and splinter groups.
But, when one thinks about it, that is the thing that led to the creation of America.
If it weren’t for their religious fervor, the English Puritans would have never established their communities in North America – and there would be no USA.
It’s not just the evangelicals, it’s all of Christianity that’s hostile to racialism. It’s very clear to me that the only reason why a WN would be a Christian is that he or she was raised in that religion, and clings to it out of habit. A person can go from Christianity to White nationalism but a WN would never be attracted to Christianity as a philosophy or religion.
@Andrea Ostrov Letania:
I would encourage you to talk, your talk in the church you grew up in—let them know how you feel about things! Today with twitter, you can have almost real time conversations with your church’s heirarchy, and press. E-mail works too. Let ‘em know how you feel.
If you grew up as a Roman Catholic, which I suspect, tell them how it is…how you see it. Don’t be shy.
@Vlad Writes:
Most Europeans (christian or otherwise) struggle to accept the possibility that American evangelicals possess “phds”. In brief, it is a religious expression deemed too irrational to be taken seriously.
What Kmac brings to the party is reason which when combined with religious faith becomes potent. It is the combination which our opponents fear.
Let’s clarify – according to these comment pages White Nationalists hate all non-whites, Jews, Liberals, Christians, Southerners, any one with a college education, women, Patriotards, sheeple, anyone who says we are hateful, and half of the WNS hate the other half? If I missed an groups please feel free to add. And we wonder why our numbers don’t grow? Smart people, very smart.
@Bobby
Actually 60M has a fairly long history, going back a couple of decades at least, of pissing off the Jewish power structure. They do tend to cave in a bit at the moment of truth, but they still deserve credit for raising important issues. I do wonder about Michael Oren. As a youngster growing up in suburban NJ, I bet little Mikey Bornstein sustained some pretty serious bullying and countless atomic wedgies in the boys’ locker room. He sure as shit threw the U.S. under the bus as fast as he could. Now he’s getting his sweet revenge by sending American boys to their deaths in Israel’s wars.
@ethnonationalism:
Here in the USA we Protestant’s have been too nice for too long. That’s why you don’t have a White Protestant on the Supreme Court today.
As I’ve pointed out before, the direct descendent of the Puritans would be the United Church of Christ, formerly called the Congregationalists. The odd thing here is that the little old ladies, and little old men who pay the bills for that church have no idea they are supporting miscegenation, homosexuality, and other social vices. If they are ever told the money will get cut off—you will see a complete reversal of policy by that church.
This is true of all the big brand name Protestant churches in the US i.e. Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian, Episcopaian, etc.
@Alice Teller: I personally hate none of those groups, Alice, but “some” of those groups do things, that harm other people, and that is definetly worth hating. Their actions are what have ruined many, many people, not the actions of WN”s. Be carefull that your thinking doesn’t get inverted, as so many peoples thinking on these things does. For example, the left does many many hatefull things, that have actually had real consequences for people. Their hate, didn’t stay dormant and confined to their “opinions”.
@fender: You are probably correct on what you have said, but I’m not sure you realize that ten of millions of white people will never give up their religion. Jesus means eternal salvation to me, white here on earth just means I get screwed over by minorities and government at every turn, but I adapt well enough. Besides, I’m smarter than any minority I’ve ever encountered, and big enough to inflict damage when needed. Sure, universalism that supports affirmative action is awful. I don’t support that. I just want to live around white people, even the ones who are going to hell according to my “superstitions”! My church ostensibly supports black membership and even has a few, but a few black Christians in a white church don’t cause the kind of rabble rousing you are used to in society. Get too many in a church and you will see the members just go to another church with more white folks. Also, I don’t want to kill them or harm them, I just want them to peacefully go away, and let the white man run things properly. (Although, half the time I think we are going to have to fight in self defense, because the non white races won’t really release us from slavery to them)
Christianity’s reconciliation with universalism is separatism.
Separate but equal camoflauged somehow as helping the minorites.
Also, there are churches that are openly pro-white.
@Alice Teller:
Some Jews are atheists, some are very religious, but what you’ll never see is the kind of vitriolic hatred, smearing and vilifying of atheistic Jews towards religious Jews or vice versa. It is beyond stupid for people who claim to be concerned about the survival of European ethnic people to make every thread in which Christians or Christianity is mentioned into a scorched earth battleground that makes many Whites decide they want no part of it.
Probably the biggest sticking point non-Christians would have with me would be on the infernal jews. I will accept them if they truly convert to Christianity. Why not, they are no longer jews! I understand the point that they are devious little bast$&*&s who would seek to ruin the church, but I don’t think God would let them. Besides, it is really a moot point since we all know we are not getting what we want anytime soon, unless some white nationalist General succeeds in a coup, and enough guys have the balls to support him.
@fender:
Yeh, Fender, you make every thread here in which Christians are mentioned into a “let me take this opportunity to tell you why I am an atheist and also to drag Christians and the Christian Faith into the mud.” You do that over and over again, no matter what the subject of the thread is. That really does a lot of good!
@Vlad Writes:
Well didn’t the Spanish already try that approach of letting Jews convert to Christianity? And didn’t it pretty much create a disaster? It didn’t change their behavior at all. I say convert them all you want, but they don’t need to live in White countries. Period .
@thm:
Look, it’s this simple: you may not have abandoned Christianity, but Christianity has abandoned you. No major Christian church will ever espouse anything we believe. We know that the US political system has abandoned Whites, so why do so many of us still cling to the religious system when it too has abandoned us?
I don’t care if WN’s are Christians. If it improves your life, then by all means be a Christian. I greatly appreciate the ways in which Christianity advanced European civilization. But I don’t think the WN movement should be a Christian movement, either implicitly or explicitly. This is an evolutionary, racial struggle, and our thinking needs to revolve around science and genetics, not religious ideas.
@Bobby:
Now that I am reminded of you and Fender I must add that Western Europeans and people with bad diets. I have no doubt the list will grow.
It is not possible to read the comments posted here over the last months and not fear that many here really don’t care about whites, they just enjoy their two minutes of hate and they are not permitted to express it elsewhere.
I have known blacks and Jews very well in my life, and I agree that the have taken advantage of us, but none have ever insulted me in the rude, vulgar ways that I have been insulted here. I might take it personally, except that I have seen lots of other whites insulted too.
Unless and until white men stop whining about everybody and big brother picking on them, accept leadership and lead their people into the light, we will not make much progress. Nothing will work if we don’t have more white folk on our side. We will not win them over with venom.
@thm:
Indeed, but it is not limited to Christians. I am fairly sure no one can save a people they do not think deserves salvation.
Here is a video by Julian Lee on the subject at hand that is addressed to White people. Julian Lee sometimes posts on this blog:
Julian Curtis lee video
@Alice Teller:
Most of the “movement” White Nationalist leaders up to this point have been cranky attention-seekers. I don’t buy the argument that they “carried the flame” for us, or some such argument. Most people never heard of them and most Whites who “awaken” don’t do so due to some loudmouth in the streets.
We just had one of the fellas that shows up here every few months on another thread a couple days ago. He posts links of various survivalist and blow ‘em up manuals, that real men are supposed to read. Like Whitaker says, these guys are over on other sites like stormfront and they all do the same thing:
They show up, call everybody wimps for not doing you-know-what, call for all kinds of borderline activity. And then … they do literally nothing. We don’t hear from them again for 6 months. And maybe never again. They aren’t serious. They just want to talk tough and dream of “kicking ass”, but they won’t do the simplest things in real life to promote the cause.
It doesn’t even make sense for aging guys with joint problems and diabetes to be speaking of “the day of the rope”. It’s embarrassing.
@fender: Never is a very long time. Before you announce that no church will ever espouse anything we believe, why don’t you tell us what that is? Other than black pessimism and the desire to blame other folks for it, I don’t know what you believe.
@Jason Speaks:
Amen, Jason. I am ready to join you in beating them into submission with mantras. This is pathetic!
@Alice Teller:
I also think that WN has been plagued with people who weren’t really interested in any broad based movement that could actually changed society. They were more interested in creating a little club that they could be a big man in. Guys like that have an active interest in coming off as belligerent, because they don’t want normal people around. They want cult members.
@Alice Teller:
“I don’t know what you believe.”
I believe WNs must be unified by race, not by religious, political, or economic ideologies. No “WN Christians,” “WN anarchists,” “WN capitalists,” or “WN socialists,” just WN’s. Whatever politics or economics we espouse, they should only be espoused if they advance our interests. Nothing should be embraced for its own sake, i.e. “I like capitalism, so I will only support capitalist WN’s.”
@fender:
Some of this sectarianism may be solved once Whites realize how dire the situation truly is. I don’t think most of us realize how massive the demographic changes are going to be over the next generation – and that is worldwide. Right now, too many whites think it’s just a matter of returning to that old rugged Cross or merely slowing immigration. They have no idea of the deluge that is about to occur.
@Alice Teller: I’m sorry you took my comment as an insult Alice, because it was meant as more of a warning to a “fellow”, let us say, awakened American. Apparently my making a distinction on who I believe deserves to be abandoned as a lost cause, made no impact on you. C’est la vie.
I can’t believe that someone above claimed that abortion is good for whites!!!! You need to look into this topic, because you couldn’t be more wrong. We’ve lost about 50 million people, and they would have been good for the tax base as well. Guess who pushes abortion? Guess what tribe most of the abortion doctors come from?
Hagee is a fool. The tribe laughs at him behind closed doors. I think Steinlight said that, “We go to work, pass security guards and metal detectors and cameras for fear of terrorists…then we go upstairs and talk about the threat of Christian Zionists.” See, even the tribe knows their own fears are bullshit.
@fender:
I agree. That does not mean it is in the interests of whites to insult or drag each other down. If the world looks as dark to you as it seems, I am truly sorry. I can not imagine how you think the never-ending critique of this, that, or the other white group, combined with relentless announcement that we are done for is helpful to the cause.
@Bobby:
I do apologize, Bobby. I was angry and intemperate. I did not mean to suggest that you personally were insulting me. You are right, we must all keep our eye on our opponents, and they have done us harm. Ultimately, however, it is up to us to provide the cure.
@Alice Teller: @Alice Teller: Alice, no apology needed for myself, (a far-from-righteous person), but I am glad you reread my position. You are right that delving into hopelessness accomplishes nothing, and even demonstrates a lack of “faith”, something surely needed in trying times. Peace.
What causes an individual to reject the culture that spawned him? To withdraw from his peers psychologically and finally physically? What cause someone to REBEL?
I knew this guy who regularly beat his wife every week-end after coming home drunk late at night. One night she locked him out and when he set about to kick in the door of the trailer house she grabbed the .12 ga. and put him, door and all, ten feet out in the yard.
My point? once you have had enough pain you will let go of all your brainwashing, religious or otherwise in favor of survival. This is why overly harsh dog training methods will get you bit (sooner or later) It is why Henry Lee Lucas killed his mother, and the German people rebelled against the harsh treatment post wwII.
It takes a lot of abuse for a dog to figure out it IS ABUSE!
Likewise it takes a lot of beatings for a Christian woman to kill her husband. and a destitute people to elect a Fuhrer.
Simply put, a person who was raised Christian, (or Muslim, or Jew, or Atheist) will tend to remain so and become even moreso as they age as long as they can bear the pain. but when they have a belly full they will break the chains and strike out at their tormentor whether percieved or real. And those white Americans who have lived comfortably while us “white trash” were devoured lately take a different view of their cherished Democracy now that THEY are feeling the pinch. I say “Welcome aboard!” “Be prepared to toss all non essential items overboard in the coming storm”
@Henry Baxley:
Sorry, I meant to say post wwI :-(
@fender:
Given that it is not going anywhere anyway, I regard Christianity as a highly fortuitous object on the landscape. It is a medium that is intensely social, insulated, conductive and conformist. One pulpit and 300 seats in every church.
When the tide turns across a sufficiently broad base, it will probably be quite feasible to unseat the agents of influence in the church, and from there rapidly restore the faith to the service of its people. Which would cause a further inflationary surge of many millions, via a medium the media has little influence over. Which is great…because that means we can see avenues by which we can power-up enough to confront and take ownership back of that media….might otherwise have been a devilish catch 22
Abortion has DECIMATED white people. We used to be 95% of the populace, not too long ago. We’re down to 68%!!!!
How can any WN with a brain say that abortion is a good thing?
Ain’t it grand!!??
We Americans are free to vote our media-instilled conscience in the presidential beauty contest every four years. And we have the best military in the history of the world to protect that right!!!
God bless America.
@Alice Teller: You left out one big group of WNs, Alice: people who disagree with them about Harold Covington. You must have noticed that both sides of that curious equation are whacking away at each other with virtual chainsaws over on the most recent Sunic thread.
I must say that Sunic’s “How to Read” piece lulled me into thinking that I had misjudged the man. Oh well, perhaps I merely fell prey to what in another context Dr. Johnson called “the triumph of hope over experience.”
@Mickey Meadows:
“One pulpit and three hundred seats in every church”
Thank you for making me re-examine my stance on Christianity.
It just may be that the institution that helped get us into this mess can help get us out….maybe.
It all would hinge on how many people in the congregation were actually ALIVE and AWAKE so they could influence others in the congregation.
Jesus did say something about child abusers having a millstone tied around their necks and thrown into the sea. It is worth thinking about. After all, I’m preaching to the choir around here, why not go where the real sinners are…CHURCH! I will be giving this some serious consideration.
@Nathan Winslow:
Abortion IS a good thing if the right people get abortions.
(of course its not good for the babies involved)
@Mickey Meadows: @Pierre de Craon:
Alas, no. I have disappointed Mickey and his good advice, I am once again scolding on two different threads. I told them they were a disgrace.
Is there any hope for us? How do we move forward in forming a movement of and for people we openly announce we despise and insult? While I certainly have libertarian leanings, I am at a loss regarding people who cannot or will not exercise some self-control. Are we completely at their mercy?
@Jason Speaks:
Wrote:
“Most of the “movement” White Nationalist leaders up to this point have been cranky attention-seekers. I don’t buy the argument that they “carried the flame” for us, or some such argument. Most people never heard of them and most Whites who “awaken” don’t do so due to some loudmouth in the streets.”
Exactly. This is why the WN movement has gone nowhere. There isn’t a single so-called White leader that knows squat about how talk with white people and get them to listen. They lack a big tent philosophy and thus have no idea how to create a common ground for whites who are worried about their future and are sick of both political parties lying to them.
They don’t understand there is a massive undercurrent of pissed off whites that are politically disenfranchised by both parties nor how to take advantage of that.
In short they don’t understand politics and by extension working with people.
They could take a page out of Huey Long’s playbook…
They could start by creating a state wide(then nationwide) economic populist party that eschews bullshit social wedge issues(the two main parties use them to divide Whites big time) but support economic issues that really impact whites. (Start out in a small state then expand)
Things like:
1) Ending H1-B and L-1 work visa programs and send those workers already here back to where they came.
2) Punishing company executives with jail time if they hire illegals.
3) Secure borders
4) Throw out illegals and imprison state officials who protect them(they are already breaking the law)
5) Impose tariffs on imported Chinese goods.
6) Penalize American companies who off-shore jobs.
7) Support Voter ID.
8) End the use of Social Security for illegals and recent immigrants.
9) In order to buy property in the U.S. you have to be a American citizen with a valid tax ID.
10) If a foreign company wants to do business in the U.S. they have to build the factory here.
11) Our natural resources cannot be resold overseas.
Now implementing would really make life hell for most minorities (Mexicans, Muslims, Asians) but help out White Americans tremendously.
Won’t happen though. It needs a charismatic leader, so far most economic populists have the charisma of a dead fish.
@Jason Speaks: Jason, i know that your point is a good one, and if I were able to agree with you and exclude converted jews from our mythical homeland someday I would, but I can’t. I cannot be internally consistent with my faith and reject jews who truly convert. I agree, how can anyone ever know? Only God does, and he isn’t telling me.
Best I could do would be to put a minimum time served and restrict the top positions to those born into the faith to the third generation and accepted by a council of elders. It is just an academic exercise, though. Until the world realizes they need white men, it will suffer the consequences.
If we as a race were both united and hard nosed, I think our best bet would be a temporary alliance with the muslims. I don’t personally like them, and I doubt they like us. But, they hate the jews worse. If we got out of their way, they would take care of the problem.
How to camoflauge such an action? Just ask for neutrality, fairness, and respect for differences in the Middle East. They should work out their own problems, and we shouldn’t take sides. Even jimmy Carter considers the Israelis to be an apartheid government. The left is scared to death of a nuclear holocaust in the middle east, and they are getting bolder in opposing the jewish supremecists.
@Henry Baxley: Henry, we always have room for one more sinner in the pews, so come on down!
@Henry Baxley:
Oh sure…I mean you only have to look at the fear and unease, particularly American, Christianity embues in the other side.
I think we need to move away from the notion their takeover arose from their elemental sub-conscious. That’s the source of the drive and inclination, but the takeover was structured. I would estimate the takeover reached the level of maturity such that the church became a priority probably quite late in the game…probably the ’80s. I wouldn’t be surprised to find a bunch of church leadership dying off or burning up in scandals around that time, replaced by a significant influx of new faces. Not necessarily knowing agents…maybe just fresh and maleable. Or maybe already having benefited from the expenses paid Israel bonding experience. Who knows.
But subverting the church would have been one of the easiest components, because the church is very much led and followed, where the leaders are only a few. But this is one of the reasons they fear the church and regard it as extremely dangerous, which potentially it is. If they found it easy, so would we.
But the main reason they fear the church is – I think – that although because of its hierarchical structure it was easy to create a love-Israel meme, they must surely have wanted to go further and tame the passions of the christians in terms of how society should be, separation of church and state and so on. They must have tried again and again….but they have met a brick wall. The Christians are a serious bunch of people on their core passions…pain of death won’t budge them.
Given all the unbelievable successes against Whites in mainstream society, drawing a total blank against this immovable intensity muist scare the shit out of them. What if they turn?
@Henry Baxley:
@Henry Baxley:
Oh sure…I mean you only have to look at the fear and unease, particularly American, Christianity embues in the other side.
I think we need to move away from the notion their takeover arose from their elemental sub-conscious. That’s the source of the drive and inclination, but the takeover was structured. I would estimate the takeover reached the level of maturity such that the church became a priority probably quite late in the game…probably the ’80s. I wouldn’t be surprised to find a bunch of church leadership dying off or burning up in scandals around that time, replaced by a significant influx of new faces. Not necessarily knowing agents…maybe just fresh and maleable. Or maybe already having benefited from the expenses paid Israel bonding experience. Who knows.
But subverting the church would have been one of the easiest components, because the church is very much led and followed, where the leaders are only a few. But this is one of the reasons they fear the church and regard it as extremely dangerous, which potentially it is. If they found it easy, so would we.
But the main reason they fear the church is – I think – that although because of its hierarchical structure it was easy to create a love-Israel meme, they must surely have wanted to go further and tame the passions of the christians in terms of how society should be, separation of church and state and so on. They must have tried again and again….but they have met a brick wall. The Christians are a serious bunch of people on their core passions…pain of death won’t budge them.
Given all the unbelievable successes against Whites in mainstream society, drawing a total blank against this immovable intensity muist scare the sh*t out of them. What if they turn?
Does anybody have stats on the rates of abortion; STD; out-of-wedlock births; divorce, drug abuse and alcoholism in the states with significant presence of armageddonites ?
I’m prepared to not be shocked by the findings, the reason I ask.
The sole fact that their self-appointed ‘spiritual leaders’ can go on regional television dressed in shiny eggplant color double-breasted suits circa 1987 and pitch for $29.95 bottles of ‘anointed water’, alone oughta tell you everything you need about far (or should that be near?) the intellectual horizons of the target audience extend.
@Vlad writes:
Well, but would you have to accept having Christian Jews live in a future White homeland, anymore than allowing Mexican or Asian Christians live here? It seems to me you can accept them as followers of your belief system without accepting them into your country.
I mean, we have always known that people in Mexico were Christian, but we didn’t let them in the country until recently.
@Jarvis Dingle-Daden:
IMHO the sense that abortion is bad for us has to be placed back to when white society had the power of self-determination which it used to enrich its fibre with strong self-confident social and moral traditioins. Abortion would have been bad for us in that day because the way of the world found many a respectable and healthy young girl pregnant and in love in her late teens or early twenties. And the guy would have known his duty and anyway had no escape, and shotgun weddings would follow, and with a strongly supporting framework of family and community, most often would go on to have many more pregnancies with a lovely big family resulting.
Abortion is bad for us if only we can do something now for our descendents so couragious and decent and fabulous that would have made our ancesters so proud.
But as things stand right now, so broken up and diminished just a shadow, abortion for a lot of girls is probably quite often the best or the only thing for her to do.
@Nathan Winslow:
What changed the % is Immigration, legal and otherwise.
And blacks having lotsa kids.
In 1960 a White family was 4 children , now its 2 ands whites have children, too few children and too late [previously a woman had hers in her 20s, yes?].
@Alice Teller: Yes, of course, they’re a disgrace, but they are more (i.e., worse) besides: they are people who really enjoy the stench of the outhouse. (I simply can’t think of a less graphic way to express what I see; I’m sure they will have no qualms about giving me in return at least as good as they get.)
“Is there any hope for us?” As Hillary’s degenerate hubby might say, that depends on what the meaning of “us” is (also on what the meaning of “hope” is, of course, but that word has been worsened probably beyond recall by its slimy associations with Obama and the previous “black” president, Mr. Hillary). If you mean the question to be nonrhetorical, however, my answer would be this: “Not so long as the crowd on the Sunic thread have anything to say about it, and not so long as Sunic—along with other scholars who bloody well ought to know better—continue to embrace Eurotrash thinking and the politically masturbatory fantasies of fourth-rate scribblers and fifth-rate thinkers.” (“Stop beating around the damn bush, Pierre! Tell us what you really think!”) The Camp of the Saints can at least be read without a sense of shame or embarrassment that one is embracing a literature that is in concubinage to politics, but this “movement” is still not even close to producing its own Lamartine, let alone a Wilfred Owen or Robert Graves. My money says it never will.
On the “How to Read” thread, Trenchant remarks at one point that the TOO comment threads are largely a “New Testament-free zone.” How true. He also notes (without any trace of rancor or witch-hunting hyperbole, may I add) that that characterization “only refers to the Gentiles (on the right day, a minority, I’d wager).” That description becomes even truer and sadder if a Gentile is more closely defined as “one free, immune, or cleansed of the taint of Judaic brainwashing.” I, for one, wouldn’t define it any other way. And by that radically anti-Clintonian standard, the self-styled movement types look less like sniping cadres of sharpshooters taking out enemy sappers than a circular firing squad discharging weapons in unison.
Yes, we are; certainly if we allow ourselves to be. And we do, don’t we? Yet what other choice do we have? Civilized men and women will always be at a disadvantage vis-à-vis savages. Civilization is an expensive and precarious way to live, period. Thus, it’s no wonder that neopagan fantasizing occupies so much time and space hereabouts. Libertarian thinking ends up becoming in effect just another a neopagan fantasy when it is extrapolated from the areas of life where it properly applies—economics and politics—and into those social, cultural, and moral areas where it is at best an unwelcome intruder. (Auden diagnosed the problem brilliantly in an ignored little book of essays called Secondary Worlds; among many other things, he observed that far too many men who achieve note or renown in one field yet hunger uncontrollably for acclaim in a second field. That is, it’s not enough to explain the mechanism of supply and demand better than anyone else ever did; let’s apply what’s been learned to the problem of evil or of [ahem] global warming. As Edward Bernays might have put it, “Egomania—it’s not just for the Jews any more!”)
Question: Why do our Tribal masters endlessly proclaim the greatness of “democracy” and the necessity of spreading it hither and yon, within and without our borders, with unrelenting determination and virtually limitless expenditures of cash and (Christian) blood? Answer: Because democracy is an irresistible attraction, the ultimate oligarchic deceit, the Questing Beast whose spoors are everywhere but sight of which is never vouchsafed to those that hunt it. People who sneer at Christianity, scream at each other, and read or write fiction where Jews are shot, burned alive, or shipped off in chains to Somaliland will have neither the time nor the energy at day’s end to do anything real, anything that might pose a threat to the criminals who have stolen our country and its future—our future. That is, nobody can be a leader because being a leader is antidemocratic. Besides, America is a Protestant nation, and so everyone is entitled to be his own leader, his own boss. He’s entitled to form his own opinions. And ain’t it just grand when those opinions turn out to be identical to everyone else’s!
I need to take a pill.
@Vlad Writes: How can you possibly “come to your senses” when you worship Jews as gods on earth? When you believe Moses, Noah, and Jesus were real ? Please, grow a brain.
@Pierre de Craon: Yes Pierre, a pill perhaps, maybe something a little stronger even. The frustration of an intelligent and educated man living in a lunatic asylum could hardly be better expressed. I dip my lid.
Just a suggestion, but perhaps more of you should take out a subscription to TOQ, the parent of this blog, and perhaps pick up a few back issues. From time to time TOQ touches on Christianity and over a number of issues gives the reader a good understanding of not only of the clash between Christianity and “modern pressures” but how Christianity was attacked from within. With the caliber of writers that TOQ has attracted our future looks very bright indeed. The button to subscribe to TOQ is at the top of the page.
@Alice Teller:
Yes, this is excellent. When people are angry they lash out at any target without forethought. I am pessimistic about this ‘movement’ – is anything actually moving?
Numbers will not grow as hatred is dull. I apologise for any stupid, irrational, borish or simply unchristian comments I might have made.
Start with one small and achievable goal. Achieve the goal. Set a goal more grand than was the last. Achieve. Repeat. Stop waiting for Jesus; if he’s on the other side, then I’m sure he’ll have means and motive to track you down.
Pertaining to religion, you can’t convert the converted. Move on.
@George Herouvis:
Good post.
We know how useful they are to ‘conservative’ politicians:
What have the Evangelicals ever achieved for their own aims? Nothing at all as far as I can see.
People who are happy to complain about Evangelical influence would never mention Jewish influence.
@Mickey Meadows:
Still thinking….I’m kinda slow when it comes to big decisions. but will be mulling this over for a few weeks or even months. A little research is in order.
@ I am pessimistic about this ‘movement’
Things are on the move in EU, tribalism/nationalism is returning and the multicultural-liberal consensus is cracking everywhere. Just read a declaration of a top German politician, Volker Kauder, “Islam did not belong in Germany”
US can’t be far behind though it is not clear what shape it will take in this “Jacobin”-country with its devotion to Enlightenment-ideology.
@Pierre de Craon:
“this “movement” is still not even close to producing its own Lamartine, let alone a Wilfred Owen or Robert Graves. My money says it never will.”
IMHO if you stand back and look at the dysfunctional state of WN, its character is very much consistent with what a thoroughly infiltrated and destablized movement would look like…precisely so.
Maybe it’s something else, but the reality is that when a previously defeated, minimized, demonized and ostrasized movement that would be regarded by its enemies as impotent but potentially dangerous, the logical, efficient and inexpensive but effective next step would be to establish one or some long term figures who create a ‘profile’ for themselves, maybe get a website or blog, and follow an easy123 approach of maximizing division and discord, making sure old sores don’t heal, passionately backing world-views most likely to present the greatest barriers to new entry from the mainstream, advocate ideas or principles that directly or indirectly make movement traction and growth more or much less likely, and so on.
This isn’t paranoia…I just think you have to assume it. I mean…it’s a no-brainer to do something like that. It’s also a no-brainer that we’re not going to be talking about anonymous ‘nicks’ in comments, but people who establish some influence and status. This is because in order to be effective, you do have to have influence and be above casual suspicion.
It’s impossible to say who such people are, and my view is that an effective counter strategy would have to be based on the principle it doesn’t matter who it is, because such questions cannot be answered at the current time. But what could be thrashed out and put in place would be a simple set of practical goals/principles of the movement which are of the kind, no well motivated person would disagree. The principles would have to be both minimal and simplistic, yet powerful in their representation of what the movement has to accomplish, and in being exactly what agents of influence would have to undermine in order to be fulfilling their job.
Examples of the sort of guidelines all WN’s should be able to agree on would be that the movement is there for all euro-descendent peoples whether they are awake to their peril or not, and its success depends wholly on a substantial fraction of the whole european people coming on board.
For that reason all policy, goal and principle statements, as well as codes of conduct, must be forged so as to minimize barrier to entry for the maximum percentage of the whole european-descendent people, across the widest possible spectrum of types, classes political persuasions, cultural preference and so on.
On the other side, the principles and goals must make indivisible, undilutable things, which are inherently impossible for our enemies to ever buy into. Otherwise..they could infiltrate and simply take over, and drive us there themselves, while sucking all the substance away.
For example recognition of the equal right of euro-descendents to nurture and educate within its ranks a sense of shared peoplehood, to celebrate that culture, and peacefully seek for it to thrive..all of this no more but no less than any other group within the multicultural society.
It could be word-crafted a bit better than that, but you know…that is something that the vast majority of white folk could look at and say “that looks really moderate and fair, and jolly well our equal right as well”
We don’t need any more than that. In fact any more is just dead weight that only raises the barrier to entry. By the same coin we can’t do with any less, because any less is to succumb in the same way other initially implicitly white interet movements like the tea party, only to end up an empty vehicle going nowhere.
The only other key principle should relate, as I alluded to, the absolute centrality of maximizing new entry and growth. Any ideas, world-views, ‘solution’ arguments that effectively create barriers to new entry, should be regarded very dimly, and those that push them if they continue consistently, regarded with some suspicion. Guilty or not. It doesn’t even matter if they are guilty….they are still an agent of negative influence.
Someting like the above should be enough, for the leaders and seniors to get around a table and bash out a simple set of goals and principles. Any among them who will not let go of ideas and envisionings that substantially raise barriers to entry, and to movement growth, should be unceromoniously kicked off the board.
We are not here to flatter the personal envisionings of individuals no matter how esteeemed. We are here for the european descendent people, and we will fail them if we fail to make ourselves available, accessable and acceptable to the vast majority of them.
If hatred of Chistianity is basic to Judaism then liberal-left Jews who see Evangelicals as the enemy are still Jews in the things that really matter. Leftist Jews in the West that are the real danger, but they’ll say that they’re free from the all religious prejudices. The Jewish attitude to traditional Christianity is now part of the recieved wisdom among the liberal establishment but the ‘enlightened’ whites can’t acknowledge that traditional Jewish beliefs have taken over the culture.
Before we get too pessimistic, remember that a lot of energy and resources are expended to keep people in submission to Political Correctness and the anti-White religion. Our elites act like they are paranoid, don’t they? They jump on any person who happens to utter a “racist” sentiment. It smacks of overkill, which you would expect when the elites are nervous.
There are tens of millions of people in this country that don’t buy into the anti-White ideology. We need to disrupt, however subtly, the anti-White conversation in this country (or expose it as anti-White) and allow pro-White views to be expressed. If that ever happens, the whole house of cards may come down – of course, the anti-Whites will still fight like hell.
@Vlad Writes: The American Jews promoted Dr. King as a prominent Christian leader in the Civil Rights Movement. It is well known that King claimed disbelief in the Resurrection, thus invalidating his claim to be a biblical Christian. I suspect that had he been the real thing, the Jews would never have made him the Prophet of the anti-White movement that has led to the unraveling of this nation and even the Western World.
@Sandy: Excellent point. I knew there was a reason why being around these hard-core, Bible thumping ‘Christians’ makes my flesh crawl the same way it does when I am around jews.
I think Mother Nature was probably the most brilliant and intuitive lady to ever exist. She was wise enough to instill within every species of human, animal, and I guess all forms of life – an instinct that triggers your awareness when you have an enemy nearby. Looking back to the days before I was really ‘jew-wise’ – I can remember, even back then, that I had some kind of odd sense of wariness that would arise within me, whenever I was around people who I later found out were jews. That was Mother Nature’s way of signaling to me to be on guard, before I was actually aware of how deeply jews hated White Europeans, I suppose.
Today, I get those same vibes when Christians are nearby.
Make that Christians who have been turned into jews.
@TheRomanian: Personally, I can hardly wait for the sounds of the timbers used for the gallows to be ‘cracking’ under the weight of all the hangings of the anti-White liberal elites.
To borrow and modify a great line by Robert Duvall in the movie Apocalypse Now: “I love the sound of cracking gallows timbers in the morning!”
@Vlad writes: Brother Vlad? Let me share a snippet of a post I made to another website which was discussing E. Michael Jones and his attitude, regarding jewish behavior. It fits into what you have said in this post.
[begin snippet]
I have a lot of respect and admiration for E. Michael Jones, but I think he is dead wrong on the assertion that jewish DNA is not our mortal enemy. Ted Pike pushes a similar notion, and both men seem to be afflicted with the same delusion that, somehow, if we can only persuade jews to become ‘Christians’ – then, they’ll cease and desist their evil ways and stop trying to subvert White nations and end their obsession to genocide White European people.
Its a well documented fact of history that whenever jews have had their backs to the wall and the host population of a given White, ‘Christian’ nation has just about had their fill of jewish evil – jews will suddenly pinky-swear that they’ve ‘Seen the Light’ and decide that they are now Christians! Meanwhile, while they pretend to be Christians in order to snooker the embarrassingly gullible White Christians – in secret, they continue to worship their Talmudic bull manure and continue to try to subvert, exploit, and plunder the host populations – albeit in a slightly more subtle and clever way than they did before.
Oh, and for anyone who still refuses to see the toxic nature of jewish DNA – allow me to offer up a couple of exhibits for the prosecution. Examples of jews who are part white, but who’s jewish DNA is so overwhelmingly powerful that it completely dominates their thinking and behavior. Tim Wise and Jon Stewart.
[end of snippet]
So, your assertion that jews are capable of truly ‘converting’ to Christianity – and a tiny number may very well be capable, just how would the leaders of a White ethnostate be able to weed out the con-artists from the real deal?
Also, this same principle might be applied to the tiny number of decent, hard working, respectable and law abiding, self-reliant blacks – who might not cause any problems for the White ethnostate, but who can say that the kids they produce would not grow up and become problems?
As we can clearly see, the creation of our future White Ethnostate is going to require some very serious contemplation of many issues and concerns. And, we cannot establish an ethnostate that has poison pills inserted inside it’s foundation that will guarantee its future subversion, collapse and ultimate destruction.
@Jason Speaks: Scam artists like Rove take the Evangelicals for a ride to get their ‘conservate’ candidate elected, but then give Christians no real influence on policy, and in fact laugh at them.
@Andrea Ostrov Letania: “The Christian Right is foolish in supporting Jews, but DO NOT THINK think Evangelicals are on our side. They are opposed to abortion on religious grounds, even though abortion is actually, by all objective measures, good for the white race since it cuts down on black birthrates. Would you rather spend $500 on aborting a black child or $500,000 on raising that child.. who will likely grow up to be a criminal or take your job via affirmative action?”
Demographically, abortion is dysgenic for whites and if it wasn’t the left wouldn’t support it. What is wrong with the ‘right to lifers’ is, as you say, they don’t have an understanding of the abortion issue in a demographic context because they – like people who believe ‘reproductive choice’ nonsense – see the world in terms of the rights of individuals instead of whats good for the group. My point is that Evangelicals might be hostile to white preservation, but the abortionists and disgusting women’s ‘rights’ people, who have encouraged women to delay family, are far worse.
If you were to try preserving oak trees and set about smashing seeds indiscriminately (including oak acorns as well), because you were worried about oak seedlings being deprived of light by (say) elm and birch saplings, conservationists would consider me nuts because its a stupid conservation policy. Quite obviously, any policy reducing the number of healthy white offspring *as well* has to be bad for whites, besides, the threat to whites doesn’t come from just one race like blacks breeding but from continual outside immigration, so that the birthrates of American whites must be compared against *global* birthrates of all potential sources of immigration.
A look at demographics reveals that American Christians in rural areas are right on their population policy from the perspective of what’s good for white people, because their values mean their communities behave in a way that’s more Darwinian when they’re put into practice, even if they reject Darwinism as a scientific theory.
The whole Freakonomics thing was refuted years ago (not least by the authors admitting there was a mistake in *their own data!*) and no one takes the argument seriously anymore, since it relies on the same sort of simplistic assumption that freely available contraception decreases unwanted pregnancy and illegitimacy (it doesn’t, it encourages and normalises sex outside stable relationships, which in turn creates illegitimacy etc).
None of this even mentions bioethics or men’s rights, which must also be taken into account. Of course the Evangelicals are right that there’s a moral issue involved, even when they’re misguided, and that liberalised abortion is a feminist attack on the ‘patriarchal’ family. And in this last context it isn’t just the legality of abortion but the politicisation of the practice as a ‘right’ which is relevant. People look down at Evangelicals as idiots, but their understanding of *why* feminists support abortion ‘rights’ and the effect of such rhetoric shows them smarter than people who think such a nonsensical practice can be turned round into something pro-white.
@Luke: This is the first time since I’ve been reading about this subject that anyone’s mentioned this phenomenon. As a child, when I had teachers who were quite openly Jewish, even when they were apparently quite friendly, I felt that they were “not on my team” in some mysterious way. Strange how Mother Nature works in this — and it apparently has to do with deep differences in mental outlook, for White Liberals and White religious fanatics produce the same effect. Also, those few Jews who are not hostile to White Survival do not arouse this feeling in me. This is not hatred I’m talking about, but rather a feeling of uneasiness and wariness.
Wow, Kevin, are you ever stirring up a volatile subject with this “Christian Zionist” story! Let all of the virulent forces at foul play, now come forth. May we not only hear from all of the religious wackos, but also from Marcy Fleming on this juicy, but extremely relevant topic?
@Skadhi_the_Raverner: Don’t think that what the left likes must be bad for whites. Black birthrates may well be affected differently than whites’ by abortion. Still, how could a white movement become politically effective without Christians, or get them aboard with explicitly pro abortion rhetoric? Christians’ thinking about abortion is maybe bad for whites (I don’t know ) but it is a bad idea to say that we are in favor of abortion for whatever reason.
If you read political commentators you would be forgiven for thinking a highly organised and politically sophisticated ‘Christan Right’ weld enormous power in American politics. What have the Evangelicals achieved on abortion? Not a thing, The Evangelical ‘Zionists’ should have had a great deal of influence over actual policy in Bush’s admin but they didn’t, they functioned to cloak the real architects: Jews.
@buckle:
Thank you, Buckle. To be clear, I am not suggesting that anyone is above reproach. It is, however, very possible to state an objection without being insulting. We don’t take ourselves seriously, why should anyone else?
@Pierre de Craon:
It is very sad that so many are apparently unaware that they are singing Yiddish songs. When did grown men in America decide that whining was an acceptable form of protest?
What is Eurotrash thinking?
@Vlad Writes: You wrote, “However, I have sat in Baptist churches and heard prominent PhD’s (or DD’s?) proclaim that Christians are now God’s chosen people. All we talk about in church is Jesus and how he is necessary for salvation.”
While the argument is to me largely academic, I’m pleased that there are Christians who have the courage to publicly proclaim that they’re the rightful heirs to the Abrahamic covenant. And, why not? While today’s Jews have kept the name, if you look closely at it, you soon realize that Judaism of today is really a rump religion, only the tradition of the pharisees and a creation of the talmud and that Christians have the right and good intellectual ground to claim they’re the true heirs.
Enough with this dual-covenant dreck that too many Christians feel compelled to cowardly mumble. Either there is a new covenant, or there is not. It can’t be both ways.
@Floda: “…maybe something a little stronger even…”
You twisted my arm, Floda! I prefer it Irish, 16 years old, and definitely not blended.
@Jason Speaks: You are quite correct, I believe the asians and mexicans would be happier in their own homeland, and God knows, we want ours without them. (Although long term trade and friendship with them is certainly doable) The problem is the white jew who converts to Chritianity. I don’t see how I can quarantine him effectively, yet I cannot reject him if he renounces judaism and becomes a Christian. The jew is a slippery little devil.
By the way, referring to jews as white puts them in the same evil classification as us. Hence, we should question American policy in favor of “white majority Israel” against the darker skinned Arabs just for sport.
@Art Gardner: Arty, my boy, it is all I can do not to hate the people calling themselves jews today (and I usually fail) and who are evilly trying to promote the idea that pre-Christian Jews are the same as today’s lot of swindlers. Jesus obviously converted God’s religion from judaism to Christianity, leaving today’s jews in the exact same category as non-believers, which is eternal separation from Him.
It would no doubt be prudent of me to not publicly state my religion since I am such a hot headed sinner, and probably an embarassment to the properly devout, but I feel there is hope for a return to sanity in the church concerning the jews. I believe it is inevitable.
@Luke: Brother Luke, I cannot refute any of your points. Perhaps in the mythical homeland, Christians should accept the fact that there is no place for the jews or first generation converted jews on this earth among white men, say a prayer for them, and leave their fate up to God. Is that an acceptable compromise?
@Felix: Very astute and well stated. i might just sneak up on them and start teaching a Sunday School class! (today’s churches often refer to it as “Adult Bible Fellowship”) Better yet, get on the new member steering commitee and steer them away from philosemitic BS! Also, steer the black families to their own churches!
To Mr. Henry Baxley: Thank you.
@Vlad Writes: Well, I’m at loss to know how to answer that question. Acceptable compromise? I have long been convinced that there can never be any ‘compromise’ with a race of people who have 2,000 year old, well earned reputation and track record for being such prolific liars and con-artists.
To be honest, I’d feel much safer and far more confident if Whites and jews were separated and we had a very well guarded and explicitly defined fence between us. I can see no up-side associated with permitting jews to live among us in our new White Ethnostate and having to constantly wonder if they are deceiving us and working another one of their subversive schemes on us – while pretending to be our friends and allies.
I tend to equate this to how a spouse will feel if they’ve already caught their partner betraying them, but decide to ‘take them back’ and try to work things out. Once that seed of suspicion and doubt and distrust has been planted – no matter how hard one tries, you can never completely erase that sense of suspicion. That alone can wear you down, beat you down – and become a very heavy load to carry inside one’s mind.
@Alice Teller
The down and dirty answer, which is “André DeBenoist’s thinking or any form of thinking that is suggestive of André DeBenoist’s thinking,” will do in a pinch—and then some, actually.
I won’t deny that this is a horse I have been flogging for some time, and I have been by no means alone. This is as good a place to start as any, though I could have pointed to any of his other articles with just as much reason. Benoist is, interestingly, one of the few characters being pushed by Dr. Sunic whose articles have not drawn the usual thousand or so dyspeptic or laudatory comments from HS, largely because even though ADB’s outlook is as socialist as that of HS’s admired Nationalsozialisten, that beast is one of those that Benoist chooses not to name. (I have no way of knowing whether Benoist is among the several hundred French soi-disant intellectuals who make regular appearances on the chat shows hosted either by Bernard Pivot or people desperately trying to acquire similar réclame, but since he is as glib and sophistic as any of them, he might as well be such a regular. How I wish that Malcolm Gladwell and a dozen other of our homegrown meatheads could be permanently exiled to French television!)
The article linked to is actually less objectionable in some ways than many of Benoist’s others, but it has a comment thread hanging from it that is better than most, with some pretty good stuff in it. Much of it is of a critical nature, of course, but far less vulgarly abusive in tone than we have had to become inured to in the past eight months. I might also point to the fact that Chris Moore contributed several fine comments to that thread. His is one of the names included on my short list of commenters whose more or less complete departure from these precincts has saddened me (my private name for the list is the Athanasius List, since his name leads the rest).
@Vlad Writes: Brother Vlad? I inadvertently forgot to add one other point, regarding your question of an ‘acceptable compromise’. I will assign credit for this final point to the brilliant and incredibly beautiful Lady Michele Renouf – who made what I consider to be a gold-medal winning observation during one of the web radio interviews she did.
She basically stated that one should not place sharks, who are well-known predators, into the same pool with dolphins.
For, if you do, it should come as no surprise to anyone when the shark devours it’s prey. These species, i.e., predators and prey must be kept apart, if the goal is to ensure the survival of the prey.
I think the analogy is outstanding, as well as brilliant.
Here is my First Rule of American Political Discourse: Everybody Understands Everything. Liberals (and the staff of National Review) understand what blacks are like, that’s why they don’t live around them. Evangelicals understand Jews hate them, and that Jews have been the leaders in driving Christianity from the public sphere, they’ve read the stories of Jews spitting on Christians in Israel. They’re not duped, they’re crooks – at least at the top. This isn’t a theological phenomenon, it’s racial and political and, by extension in a society that has white-hating racism as its official civic religion, economic. It’s just another symptom of the Jewish-led holocaust being waged against white America: the crooks turning a buck on the misery of their people and at the expense of their religion by sucking up to political power. I suppose these Evangelicals might have long had a soft spot for Israel but it should tell you something that as the noose of political correctness has tightened the more insanely philo-semitic they have become. Also telling is the reality that the groups most assaulted (like Southern Baptists) by the PC hate machine are those most fervent in their Stockholm Syndrome-type support for Israel. Don’t forget that black, brown and yellow Christians don’t seem to feel the need for this worship of Jews – that strongly hints at the real racial nature of the phenomenon.
I’ll shotgun some responses to things I’ve read here. Christian Zionists are useful idiots, nothing more. They have no power because they have no money. The Jews control the money. Duh.
Obviously abortion is a DIRECT attack on the white Christian family. The combination of massive immigration and abortion is devastating to our groups’ survival.
There will be no white ethnostate. You are totally deluded.
The hatred here for Christians is despicable. Some of you here might just as well be Jews.
@Pierre de Craon:
Thanks. There does seem to be a different level of discourse. Did you note that Chris Moore has his own site?
http://www.libertariantoday.com/
There is a fellow with the moniker Athanasius who posts at The Orthosphere.
Now for my next lesson I would like to learn to embed hyperlinks as gracefully as you do. There is a bottle of Bushmills 21 in it for you.
My understanding is that the Scofield Bible translation was funded by a wealthy Jew. The translation itself isn’t the problem, but the annotations are propaganda, and claim that Christians must support the Jews, salvation is from the Jews, the Jews are the light of the world, etc.etc.etc.
You can’t fault the rank and file evangelicals, but yes the leaders are douchebags.
@Luke: @Vlad Writes:
I think the fundamental driver of Jewish behavior is genetics. This accounts for about 50% of personality. We have a long history of destructive Jewish behavior that comes from both religious and non-religious Jews. And Ashkenazi Jews can be identified with genetic tests.
One mistake, I believe, is when we think of Jews as “White like us”, except for their religious affiliation. This position is inaccurate in my view, and the view of virtually everyone who has studied it.
So, let Jews have their own homeland. It would be unwise for White countries to harbor them. There are no exceptions to deep conflicts when Jews are part of a White society.
And when I say Jews, that includes any mythical Christian Jews in the future. Now, this doesn’t mean there would be no contact between Jews and a White country (whether the Jews were Christian or not). There would be international relations, trade, various exchanges. There would be diplomats and other visitors. It just means there would be no significant granting of citizenship or granting of permanent residence to Jews.
@Nathan Winslow:
“The hatred here for Christians is despicable. Some of you here might just as well be Jews.”
Jews hate us because we’re White, not because we’re Christians. If we were Buddhists or Hindus or Muslims they’d still hate us.
Over at World Net Daily I can’t tell if the website is published by Christians or Jews. How did Christians end up thinking they were Jews? Totally insane.
@Alice Teller:
I hadn’t forgotten about Chris’s site, though I seldom look at it. I miss him here.
The Orthosphere site is news to me, however. Thank you for the tip. I just spent half an hour looking at it, and I wish I felt more encouraged than I do about the level of intelligence of the discourse—i.e., as opposed to its civility, which is several orders of magnitude greater than what we see here at TOO. Their Athanasius is definitely our Athanasius, however. It’s been thirty years since I’ve run into someone in his twenties who combines so much learning with so much of what people used to rightly call wisdom.
OK, here’s how to do embedding of hyperlinks. It’s one remove less straightforward than doing italics, boldface, or blockquotes, since it involves two instances of manipulation, neither of which is as self-evident in the coding examples that Matt Parrott (the chief web magician here) has graciously provided for the unskilled.
To embed a hyperlink in text, follow these guidelines:
(1) Prepare the ground. Locate the Comment Formatting block, and then highlight and copy the entire HYPERLINK coding line (it’s the one immediately after the italic coding line). Then paste that line into a convenient place in the comment box here at TOO or on a Word new document page or on some other preparatory sheet of virtual paper.
(2) Distinguish between the elements that are essential to coding and elements that are exemplary of the material you will be inserting to create your own hyperlink. This is a bit tricky. On the left, all the characters up to and including the open quote symbol are part of the code—that is, the first nine characters, counting the space as a character. On the right, however, the essential coding characters are split up: the first two, the close quote symbol and the right-pointing angle bracket, precede the exemplary copy HYPERLINK (you will be replacing this word with words of your own—viz., the actual soon-to-be-clickable text—); the remaining four characters follow HYPERLINK. Retaining all these is essential if your own hyperlink is to appear.
(3) Insert the URL. Copy the entire URL from the site you wish to link to. Now, paste that URL over the dummy copy (i.e., the URL for this site) between the open and close quotes (alternatively, you can simply delete all the copy between the quotes prior to pasting in the new URL). Finally, if you haven’t already done so, replace HYPERLINK with live text (make sure you type normally; i.e., caps and lowercase letters as appropriate rather than all caps, as in the example). DON’T ADD EXTRA SPACES BETWEEN THE FIRST TWO CODING CHARACTERS, “>, AND THE LAST FOUR, !
(4) Finish typing the remainder of your comment, whether it precedes the hyperlink, follows it, or both.
(5) Click Post Comment, and prepare yourself for applause and amazement at your technological savvy.
@Pierre de Craon: “AND THE LAST FOUR, !”
Alice, I forgot that the system would read those last four characters as code rather than characters to appear within the comment. Sorry. Of course, the four characters I was referring to are (1) the left-pointing angle bracket; (2) the slash; (3) the letter a; and (4) the right-pointing angle bracket.
@Pierre de Craon:
There are many days when I will settle for civility. The group at The Orthosphere are quite new and just finding their way, their limits, and their voices. I have high hopes for them. Above all I am heartened that there are serious Christians broaching these issues. Despite the nay sayers here, I find tentative steps in our direction in the most surprising places. There are Southern heritage groups on Facebook who have a lot in common with us, though they use a different vocabulary. They may called the opponent a Yankee Kazar Maxist, but they know who they are talking about. My concern is that as they gentle easy our way we will hit the over the head with insults about their lack of rigid adherence to NS truths rather then a warm welcome.
Many, many thanks for the instructions, they sound quite formidable. I will try them step by step.
@fender:
Jews aren’t upset about Christians in Africa, even though it’s a fast growing population. Nor are Jews spending much time trying to break down crosses in Latin America. They just don’t care. Why?
Because they are only concerned with Christianity in White countries, inasmuch as it can be used as a standard for White people to rally around. There is a lot of implicit Whiteness in American and European Christianity. That is there concern – not so much the Christianity itself. If we all worshiped Odin, they would tearing down Odin symbols.
@Alice Teller: @Pierre de Craon:
Chris Moore, as he himself repeatedly said, doesn’t consider himself pro-White. Now, he’s not anti-White, I don’t mean to say that. But he simply focuses on Jews, anti-Zionism and libertarianism. He’s another guy that puts some “ism” first. Why is it so difficult, to get even pro-White people, to be, well, explicitly, pro-White?
They don’t need to be NS or libertarian or boogalooist; but they should be able to say, “I am pro-White, I am for the survival of White people and White societies”. Not as a subset of some other belief system, or as an almost incidental side effect of following the True Way, but as an end in itself.
According to Wikepedia:
Pretty amazing growth. I’ve never heard a Jew protest that. Maybe I missed it, but while I see tons of books in the US about the “evil Christian Right” or the evils of the Catholic Church from various Leftist writers, I’ve never heard anyone complain about the explosive growth in Africa.
Why not? Because they don’t care about Christianity as such. They have no particular problem with it. It is only when it becomes part of a system that binds White people together and gives them social cohesion, as Whites, that anti-Whites become concerned.
Which is why the term anti-White is appropriate. That is the heart of what they are against. Not our religion, not our economic system, not our vaunted culture, but US.
@Anty Ep:
Baathism was actually founded by a Syrian Christian, Michel Aflaq. Secular Arab nationalism has a natural appeal for the Christian minority of Arabs. The fact that U.S. Christians were enthusiastic for overthrow of Saddam Hussein, whose right-hand man Tariq Aziz was a Christian, is a stunning example of ignorance as a force in history.
@Jason Speaks:
I took a quick glance at his site and he certainly doesn’t seem to like Anglos!
The short answer is because not enough respectable, responsible people have stood up and given them permission to do so. America ,at least, has always been about giving people a chance. Look back at the Irish immigration. The old stock Americans did not see them as very promising material. When the arrived here, they had been starved, traumatized by watching so many die in The Famine, and many had diseases. It is no wonder they took to drink. Never the less, in a generation or so of good American food, combined with the excellent education provided by the Catholic Church, they proved their critics wrong. We did have reason to be hopeful. America had worked miracles before.
Our problem now is that we have invested so much in this cause we have no idea how to admit we were simply wrong – that there is a limit to how much can be accomplished by good food and education. It seems hateful and far too many WNs sites, too often right here, confirm that we are a hateful bunch. People are desperate for a respectable alternative. Not just an alternative language and apologetics, but a plan that describes how this could be done.
@Alice Teller: You are right to bring me up short. I just automatically assume that something I learn about has always been around. That is, that my ignorance has been of longer duration than their exisence.
@Jason Speaks: One could hardly miss your frustration, my friend! Clearly in this instance I am prepared to be less censorious on first principles than you are, but even were that not the case, Chris’s stuff was consistently interesting to read, even when I disagreed with it.
Incidentally, I was thinking much the same thing about Wil Williams, who has turned up again after a long absence to yell at and about Covington on the other thread. He made a real contribution to this site, albeit a frequently fractious and unruly one, before he left in a justifiable huff after enduring a remarkable amount of vile abuse (something you’ve experienced, too, need I add).
@Alice Teller:
I think you’ve put your finger on it. I’m afraid that that by the time we get around to something that enough Whites will be comfortable with, it may be too late. Do you live in an area that is multi-ethnic? I live near a large city and it is shocking how non-White those under 35 already are. My greatest fear is that about the time slow White people get around to admitting they were wrong, it will be academic. Not in 100 years, but even in our lifetimes.
On the Irish, I think there was a bit of pro-immigration propaganda in their success narrative. They weren’t all that easy to assimilate and there were ethnic problems. I think our tendency to paper over ethnic differences among Whites has made us a little gullible.
Over half of all babies born today are non-White. I have a feeling this may wash over Whites like a deluge.
@Jason Speaks:
It is not entirely true that Jews have no special hostility to Christianity. You underestimate the historic memory Jews have. For centuries it was the church who opposed Jews on behalf of the people and it was theological arguments that were used to explain their behavior. I still agree with some of those arguments, they are a people sadly lacking in the capacity to love.
You have to be really really dense to think that Jews do not object to Christianity. C’mon….you’re kidding, right? They’ve been objecting since they nailed Him to the cross! This is OBVIOUS stuff. Christianity made both Europe and America great; it’s in our DNA. Yes, the Jews object to any unifying force for whites, but specifically our religion is anathema to them. Why do you think that the ACLU works day and night to remove any vestige of our religion from the public sphere? As religion has been drained from Europe, Europe has been dying, and the same for the USA. This is OBVIOUS stuff! Our entire moral system is based on Christianity. The Founding Fathers were steeped in the Bible and it shows on every document they wrote. Bray and bray, those of you who hate the religion, but don’t try to convince those of us who know better.
@Jason Speaks:
I share all your concerns but I also have hope. One of our problems is that the old vocabulary for discussing these problems has been discredited, never to be resurrected, and each grass roots group has their own code words and exact definition of the problem. We are always fighting the mass media.
We need white people to step up and we need to encourage anyone who is working in our direction. I see lots of healthy signs in jokes that are spread via email that I would not have heard ten years ago. I think that when the critical mass is reached the change will happen very fast.
@Pierre de Craon:
I didn’t mean to bring you up short, I suspect I simply have more experience with regional theater than you. We learn to nurture talent out here in the woods. It is on this aspect of the internet that I pin many hopes. There are good conversations going on out there even if they are not yet ready for Broadway.
@Alice Teller:
The greatest objection Jews feel against Christianity is not that it worships one of their “false Messiahs” as God, but that it blames the Jews for having murdered that God. That, they avert, has been a source of endless persecution of Jews throughout history. Only recently the Jews have succeeded in inducing the Catholic Church to revoke that blame, but the Jews – revengeful people that they are – still retain their resentment against Christianity.
Jews consider Christian Europeans as their historical enemies, both racially and culturally. Therefore they try to destroy them both ways.
@Alice Teller: Regarding “beating them to death with ‘mantras’ …”
So tell us where you’ve done just that. I haven’t seen you in the Swarm. Have you been hiding your work?
We’d all love to see you hang up your “magic wand” and be out there working the anti-White circuit. That works real “magic”!
@Alice Teller:
All I can say is Jews exhibit hostility toward European Christianity, not so much African or Latin Christianity. I never see any actions taken against the fastest growing religion in Africa, which is Christianity. So, I am forced to think their hostility is more toward the European than the Christian.
@Nathan Winslow:
Then why aren’t Jews funding programs to take that giant statue of Jesus down in South America? Why aren’t they writing books about the spread of Christianity in Africa? Why don’t they moan about Asian Christians? They seemingly could care less.
What we need to be concerned with is anti-Whites
@Pierre de Craon: Yes, you do need to take a pill, Pierre.
X-tian-ity/ism is at base, based on the jew-book. So long as your “faith” is based on the jew-book, you will be in the thrall of the jew. There’s no way anyone who is in the thrall of the jew-book can ever escape the power of the jew-mind, much less become “jew-wise”, and be in a position to fight a mortal enemy.
X-tian-ity/ism is quite useful for that enemy, which is why the fear any evidence of “identity” which resides outside the jew-book far more than they fear X-tian-ity/ism versions of the jew-book, regardless of the shows they put on. They are quite aware that X-tian-ity/ism-ites are still working from THEIR supremacist hypotheses, and make good use of that.
@Julian Curtis Lee: Julian, may I respectfully submit that when a religion called X-tianity/ism WORSHIPS both the jew-g-d, and the jew-book, they will inevitably worship the …..
There’s no way around this. Unless a person has ceased to think, which is rather common these days.
@Jason Speaks:
That’s putting it mildly. The Irish were almost impossible to assimilate, and they were the major criminal element in this country for about seventy years, at least in the sense that they committed more street crimes than members of any other group. It wasn’t till either the thirties or the forties that the blacks got to be numero uno (this appears to be the only instance of statistically implicit discrimination that Jackson and Sharpton don’t gripe about). Despite what Law and Order told people for years, however, the Irish almost never ran the operations they were affiliated with. By 1920 virtually all the big-city criminal bosses were Jews; the Italians mostly came later.
I speak from family knowledge relevant to this matter. Three of my father’s paternal uncles (all of whom were born in Ireland and died before I was born) worked for Dutch Schultz; one of them murdered at least two guys in the Bronx on Dutchie’s orders. My grandfather, who was the youngest brother, was, as it were, the white sheep of the family, and my old man (born 1909, by which time large numbers of the Irish had finally begun moving toward the solution side of the equation) was a complete straight arrow who worked in a professional capacity all his life and gave my mom and their five kids a comfortable middle-class existence and college educations all around.
@Gregor: It’s obvious that you’re a real authority on this subject. I bow to your eloquence and expertise.
@fender:
@Jason Speaks:
The African and South American “parallels” are red herrings. Last things first, the Judaeo-Masonic subversion of the Church was well underway on both continents long before the Second Vatican Council, which reified, through its cowardice, virtually a takeover of the institutional church by Jews and Masons, who amount to one and the same force/group. So as far as Africa is concerned, neither the births nor the conversions in the last sixty years or so are indicative of anything genuinely informative. They were being born and converted into a religion turned inside out and upside down. And where besides Ethiopia is there a Christian community with any historical roots more than an inch long? The great super-Saharan Christian communities
were destroyed by the Muslims and their Jewish pals twelve hundred years ago.
Critically important, too, is the fact that every political or cultural subdivision on both those continents was and is authority driven, and any such top-down system is ideally suited to a Jewish takeover. None of the South American liberators, all those dime-store sons of the Enlightenment, would have been out of place were they all grouped under a taxonomic heading Tinpot Dictators.
Furthermore, neither continent had a single state that could ever have been described as a Christian polity. People who know anything about South America are aware that its countries have some of the most stratified societies in the world, not to mention the fact that most of its countries are in “evolutionary” terms in roughly the same position that England was in in the thirteenth century, when Norman-Saxon bifurcation was still several centuries away from being a dead letter. To use another yardstick, how can one even speak of a society in a nonrisible sense when the local language has twenty-five or more words to denote whisker-thin degrees of race mixing?
I could go on for several thousand more words, but why bother? I know I’m not going to convince either of you gents that your major premise is erroneous, but perhaps you’ll at least give some thought to my suggestion that you are generalizing from false premises in imagining that skin pigmentation is the sole or definitive marker that distinguishes Europe and its Christians, its Catholics preeminently, from the other two continents and their denizens.
Christianity is the original Jewish “controlled opposition”.
Christianity is basically just Hellenized Judaism.
I’m surprised that professor MacDonald can’t recognize Christianity as an ancient Jewish “culture of critique” of Greco-Roman religion.
@Z.O.G.: Probably because that isn’t accurate.
Traditional Greek religion was being criticized as early as the 5th c. (Xenophanes). Plato and Aristotle also were critics. It was the pervasiveness of Platonism in the Eastern Empire that allowed Christianity to gain a foothold. I don’t have time to go into a fully explanation of why Platonism set the stage for Christianity right now, but surely you’re familiar with St. Paul at the Areopagus.
In any event, while Greek religion may have died, Greek civilization did not (nor did it’s Roman counterpart in the West). The Greeks persevered for another 1000 years–and the rise of Christianity seemingly disempowered the Jews all over the Eastern Mediterranean. Read the Novels of Justinian for yourself if you doubt this. So great was the enmity of the Jews that in 614 they allied with the Persians (and perpetrated a massacre of 60,000 Christians in Jerusalem) in an attempt to dislodge Greek power. They were unfortunately more successful by allying with the Moslems and later, the Turks (to this day there are >20x more Jews than Greeks in “Turkey”).
In the West, it was the Catholic monarchs Isabella and Ferdinand who expelled the Jews from Spain, while the Popes restricted their activities. It was the secularists of the Enlightenment and Romantics who “emancipated” the Jews, and gave them free reign to cause havoc throughout the Europe.
Stick to what you know, educating people about the extent of Jewish influence in the present.
Hmm. I grew up Christian and don’t see that I worshiped “the Jew God.”
I worshipped a transcendental God of Omnipotence Who transcended such distinctions. Maybe I had a wise nun who explained God to me better than you got?
Hmm. I grew up in a religion that taught that through faith (which Hindus/yogis would call the power of Consciousness and will), there were ways around anything. Christ’s statement about Faith comport with statements in the Upanishads like this:
“To whatever object a man’s own mind is attached, to that he goes…” [and his experience becomes](Brihadaranyaka Upanishad IV.4.6)
Or this:
“As is his desire, so is his will; as is his will, so is the deed he does; whatever deed he does, that he attains.” (Brihadaranyaka IV.4.5)
Other verses state that a man fashions his own world through application of mind, concentration, and faith (shraddha).
In other words, as a Christian I was taught Matthew 21:21.
I have found it all tallies with my own testing and experience. Thus with Christian religion I have never felt trapped by any thing as you propose.
My impression is that if you were ever taught Christianity by anybody, they were not very good at it. Or perhaps you didn’t think. (Apply your mind to it. One must apply his mind to religion.)
Perhaps you didn’t grow up Christian. Those who attack Christianity from within the WN movement, I find, usually do it with a shallow p-o-v on Christianity and never having dug into it much in the first place; never respected it in the first place. Can one ever pull secrets or valuable things from a thing he never respects in the first place. We get from a thing what we put into it.
Christianity is the religion of 20 centuries’ worth of our European ancestors who were virtuous, not stupid, people. It is the elegant bhakti-yoga of the White Europeans. It even features meditation on akasa, though not explicitly so, and this is a powerful technique for touching the transcendental. One is put into touch with akasa (infinite space, first evolute of the Lord), simply by sitting in a great church or hearing the reverb on the voices of nuns and monks as they sing.
Christianity is full of divine power and divine knowledge. It just takes a man of faith to find it.
Christianity Exposed
http://christianitydebunked.wordpress.com/
@Jason Speaks: Who do you think is behind the propagation of sabbatarian movements among Hispanics?
@Athanasius:
If you knew anything about the origins of Christianity, you would know that it is derived from Hellenistic Judaism, via the ideas of Philo and Josephus.
You’re just trotting out the tired old lie that Christianity is some mystical branch of Greek philosophy, and therefore European. You really don’t understand what Christianity is.
Oh, look, it’s Julian Lee, the guy who rips people off for a living, with his b.s. “astrology” business.
Now there’s a guy you can trust.
Here’s Julian Lee’s website, where he scams people with his “astrocartography” gimmick:
http://julianlee.com/services.html
Christianity was what united White Europeans. It’s what made them moral, a critical matter.
Have you ever fasted? Have you ever attempted to concentrate your mind on God? (i.e., to fulfill Luke 10:27). I could go on pointing out things of Christianity you’ve never tried.
In the most minimalist terms: Anything at all that draws together a People to one place once a week — never mind over the divine principle — has tremendous power to those people.
I think that WN’s who attack Christianity are of three categories:
1. Those who never studied it or pursued it
2. Mawb Jews (May-as-well-be Jews).
3. Jews
Julian Lee calls himself a “locational astrologer”. What kind of low-life would do this for a living? What a scumbag con-artist.
http://julianlee.com/services.html
Scammed? Have you ever tried my services? (My clients get good results; and my success is from word-of-mouth.) Have you ever studied astrology yourself?
Astrology is an earth knowledge, and locational astrology the most accurate of all forms of astrology. In any case, it’s not the subject of this thread and you are a troll.
@Z.O.G.: Obviously there is no denying a relationship between Christianity and the monotheistic religion of the Levant that preceded it. I hesitate to call that Judaism, since what we call Judaism is the creation of medieval rabbi’s as a response to Christianity. Let me give you a less controversial analogue: modern Taoism, while ostensibly the oldest religion in China, is in fact a reaction to the introduction of Buddhism.
In any event, since you like facts, lets turn to them. Did the power of Jews wax or wane with the advance of Christianity in Late Antiquity. It’s clear that they were present in the Mediterranean basin prior to the development of Christianity–do you really think that they wouldn’t have gone to Northern Europe otherwise? Is it not true that the Jews allied with both the Persians and the Moslems to attack Christendom?
Jews hate seeing long-haired astrologers who are pro-White and also naming Rumpelstiltskin’s name. And it gives me great delight.
@Pierre de Craon:
…false premises in imagining that skin pigmentation is the sole or definitive marker that distinguishes Europe and its Christians, its Catholics preeminently, from the other two continents and their denizens.
Oh well just to be clear, I certainly don’t think it is skin pigment that matters. But I most definitely do think there is something biologically different about Indo-European people. I believe they distinguished themselves as unique before Christianity appeared. But I would also say all the major human populations have traits that make them unique, and these traits are deeply influenced by biology.
I have become convinced that Culture Only People (I used to be one – I just made that term up), arrogate way too much influence to their various Schools of Thought, Philosophies and Religions. They imagine that if they could just implant some sacred cultural goodness into the brains of any human people, they could recreate the glories of Athens anywhere.
I think the evidence is pretty clear – that ain’t true. And I’m not saying anything shocking. Not even liberals really believe it.
And no matter how muddled and mixed up the various concoctions of Sex Magik, Christianity and Animism may be around the world, Jews and the anti-Whites in general display a remarkable lack of concern with Asian, Latin or African Christianity.
And one other thing to ponder – note that no matter how secular, Protestant, anti-catholic, or straight up atheist a European society becomes, there is still enormous pressure to bring in mass brown immigration. The anti-Whites never find a White society they will let alone.
I think the issue going forward for many on TOO, is realize it is White people the anti-Whites have a grudge against. Yes, they hate the culture that makes Whites thrive and prosper, but it is the White people they actually hate (and I don’t merely mean skin color here – I’m just using White people as a general term).
Any place where my White European ancestors gathered to think about the Divine Principle and the Eternal Creative Power — is to me a Holy Place.
@Jason Speaks: Surely you can see that at least as a tactical measure, this is wrong.
Massive North African immigration into Spain or Italy would be unthinkable had the Catholic Church maintained its traditional influence. Granted they call for tolerance of immigrants insofar as they shouldn’t be maltreated, and granted there may well have been immigration from Mozambique or Angola with the approval of the Church (though this is irrelevant to the reality of the situation)–but the Church simply wouldn’t have tolerated the concomitant alteration of public cultural expressions in Europe that goes along with Moslem immigrants.
Look at how the Greek Church has resisted immigration…. and also how it has been under relentless attack by Jewish political and media interests (I could discuss this at length–but you could start by looking up the Vatopedi land “scandal”) for the past 15 years.
@Athanasius:
Yes, I don’t deny that Christianity has done good things for White people- and could continue to be a force for good (I wish more so!). But I don’t think the deepest motivation of our enemies is a war against a particular Creed. I think demonstrate again and again, it is the Aryan people (loosely defined) that they have a problem, here in our modern world.
If a society of Whites decided to totally and completely abandon anything remotely related to Christian thought, our opponents would not leave it alone.
Christianity has been the source of basic White European moral standards, among other things. Whoever attacks Christianity attacks the moral certitude of the White Europeans. And whoever attacks a people’s moral certitude attacks that people.
@Jason Speaks: I don’t necessarily disagree with that point. There are two factors to consider:
1) Jews will go to whichever country/society that is creating wealth and seek to appropriate that wealth. Since most societies don’t take too kindly to such appropriation, it is in the Jews interest to disarm any source of collective resistance–be it cultural or religious. For us, that is Christianity. Of course, it can be both overt destruction (e.g., of the Orthodox Church during the Soviet period) as well as infiltration (I think the sabbatarian movements are exhibit A (it is no coincidence that many of them are closely related to the phenomenon of “Christian Zionists”), but there are other, more insidious examples).
Apply this to China (at least in the modern era). Jews have infiltrated and influenced the KMT from the very beginning. Moreover, they were extremely hostile to the presence of the Catholic and Orthodox churches in China (sorry, ZOG). But the real kicker is that they are essentially breaking down the Confucian values of China in the same way they are breaking down Christian values in the US (television, pop music, consumerism, ridiculous political movements). Of course, Chinese also have explicit racial identity, and in that case, Jews usually try to convince the Chinese that they are both victims of the horrible whites–but that’s another story.
2) Modern Jews seem to have developed collective consciousness not in the Bronze Age, but in the Hellenistic Age. Therefore, European civilization is the standard by which the measure themselves. They hate it because they feel inferior to it. You’re right that this isn’t about Christianity per se, but I think that even if there were no economic incentive to do so, they would rather see white kids listening to Lady Gaga and Marylin Manson on their headphones than Bach, Tchaikovsky, or even Bill Monroe.
Actually, when you stand back and study jewish behavior from the larger view – as opposed to merely focusing on one or two specific behaviors that are particularly irritating, you begin to see a bigger picture unfold.
We are dealing with a group of people who have developed a collection of evolutionary survival skills that rely very heavily upon deceit, manipulation, trickery, and misdirection. Thus, when we see them doing things that they have to know in advance are going to really irritate non-jews – such as their ABC TV show, Good Christian Bitches, a thoughtful White man or woman might ask: “Why would they seek to so deliberately attempt to provoke an angry response from White Americans who are Christians?”
Consider this: Perhaps they want to keep our attention focused on their attacks on Christianity, and keep us thinking that its only Christianity they wish to subvert, undermine and destroy? When, in reality, its actually the entire White European race that is their real target. But, if Whites – in large numbers – suddenly begin to realize that their race is being targeted for extinction, then it becomes a race war and this could serve to bring Whites together and result in our people organizing themselves along racial/tribal lines and responding to this external threat?
I think there is no question that the one thing jews fear more than anything else is White racial solidarity and White racial consciousness. Once Whites reach these conclusions, the jewish ability to dominate, plunder and control White European nations are numbered.
@Jason Speaks:
I am always surprised when people underestimate the the richness of the interaction between Christianity and Europeans. Do we really have such a low opinion of our ancestors that we can be confident that for two thousand years some of the best and brightest of our men devoted themselves to the church to no effect? Like any great marriage, each influenced the other. It is only in divorce that the children become lost. To be anti-Christian is to be anti-white on a very fundamental level.
@Athanasius:
Welcome back! Your voice has been sorely missed.
@Alice Teller:
The point you make about the interaction between Europeans and Christianity is a good one. There are books (which I’ve just glanced at) on how Christianity changed once it encountered large numbers of Western Europeans. Apparently a bit of the Aryan manliness was retained and transformed Christianity itself in many ways. As someone recently said, the very image of Jesus was transformed in most people’s mind to a rather Nordic looking figure – often with straight or wavy blonde hair and blue eyes – somewhat different than what would have been likely in real life.
@Luke:
Jews are a big part of the equation; you simply can’t understand modern history without understanding Jewish influence. But I like the way Bob Whitaker lumps all our enemies into a camp called “anti-Whites’. Not all of our enemies are Jews. In fact, many are Whites like us (well not quite like us).
We have always had a problem with certain Whites from the New England area. They can be intelligent and have good traits, but a subset of them have gone for a series of loopy Utopian ideas, typified by the War from 1861-1865 that killed at least 620,000 White men, possibly many more. To this day, you find strong support among them for Multiculturalism and Marxism.
We must never forget them. These White Anti-Whites have been the crucial weakness that made us so vulnerable once we let a sizable East European Jewish population in. The role they played can never be forgotten if future generations are to remain free.
On the War of Northern Aggression, Whitaker makes an interesting point which changed my mind on a few things. My sympathies were/are Southern, but I had said it was shortsighted of the South to allow itself to get manipulated into a war with the North; by 1861 the North had too much of an industrial advantage. He makes two points:
1. Lee and other Southern commanders had no idea how brutal the tactics of the North would be. He assumed it was gentleman fighting gentleman. If he had struck with equal venom earlier, things might have gone differently.
2. The real mistake may have been waiting until 1861. In 1850, the North would not have had such an advantage and would have had a hard time stopping secession. So maybe the “hotheads” weren’t listened to early enough.
This is my fear when I hear us preoccupied with conducting ourselves like angelic gentleman in the future. We have to be diligent about following what works. In the current atmosphere, this doesn’t mean Rambo, rather it means a kind of heartless devotion to whatever tools of public relations are at our disposal.
The reason that Evagelical support Israel is because of implicit Whiteness. Jews portrayed themselves as an extension of White identity. While Arabs and Muslims were portrayed in the American Media as being dark and zealous who hate Jesus and worship a moon God called Allah and and follow a pedophile violent beduin nut as a prophet. That is why very few Blacks or Latinos see Israel the way Evangelicans do, its not about Christianity its about Whiteness.
I also suspect many in this forum probably see it that way but had to change after learning of Jews displacement of Whites. Many here probably were cheering as the Jews were diplacing the Palestinians but only turned against the Jews after realizing that Whites in America were being displaced faster than the Palestinians. Whites are vulnerable to steorotypes of people who are not White. Jews know this and portray themselves as White. Look at Bob Simon of 60 minutes, he looks just like a White guy. So does Jane Fonda or Joe Lieberman or Michale Bloomberg. That is why Evangelicals support Israel.
This is why the SPLC while policing this site only revealed itself after Macdonald’s article about Trayvon Martin. They know that Black issues is where White Nationalism will slip. Anyone who knows just a few things about American history knows this.
As Israel reveals its Eastern origins the Islam bashers will become the Jew bashers and the tables will turn. But to claim that its Christianity that is the motivation behind Evangelical support for Israel failes to see that role Whiteness plays. After all Blacks in America are not Muslims but Christians, and so are Latinos. Yet none of these two communiteis support israel anyway near Evangelical Christians who are predominately White.
Its not utopian universalism that is the motivation or Christianity, its implicit Whiteness.
fender April 24, 2012 – 4:46 pm | Permalink It’s not just the evangelicals, it’s all of Christianity that’s hostile to racialism. It’s very clear to me that the only reason why a WN would be a Christian is that he or she was raised in that religion, and clings to it out of habit. A person can go from Christianity to White nationalism but a WN would never be attracted to Christianity as a philosophy or religion.
End quote
You can’t be a White Nationalist and be hostile about Christianity. That is a contradiction. David Duke repeatedly says we must defend and protect our European and Christian identity. An Arab nationalist can not be hostile towards Islam or a Japanese Nationalist towards Shintosim. In the end Christianity is not about race but that does not mean it is not the culture and identity of Whites. You can be someone of no faith in Christianity but to be hostile towards Christianity or not care about it and still be a Nationalist is impossible. Than you are not a Nationalist but a racialist. They are not the same thing. Just look at White people’s names and you see the Christian influence.
Tom, Peter, Mathew, David, Simon, Luke, John, James, Mary, Ruth, Rachel.
Sounds familiar?
@Jason Speaks:
“This is my fear when I hear us preoccupied with conducting ourselves like angelic gentleman in the future. We have to be diligent about following what works.”
Exactly right Jason. But I’m not regarding it as a fear any more. Now I see it for what it is. It is simply a bunch of ideas that will go no where. If people aren’t focussed on making the movement BIG, resistent to infiltration and subversion, and focused on WHAT WORKS, then by the laws of Nature either they and their ideas will be changed or pushed aside, or the MOVEMENT will not never exist in reality and WHITE people will not be saved.
@Luke:
Excellent insight
Christianity is derivative of a lot of ideas-movements and religions and the one that I find it amazingly unmentioned here is Zoroastianism. I had the similarities pointed out to me in Catholic high school so this is no big insight.
If course Revilo Oliver wrote a book on this. His most compelling question is whether or not Zoroastrianism was the original Jewish Trojan horse religion. He hypothesized the Magi were Jews. However he admitted a lack of evidence for that hypotheselis.
A condensed version of his thoughts on this is presented in his long tenure of Yockeys “the enemy of Europe” and was reprinted with that essay a few years ago.
Arent any of you commenters familiar with
Reviling Oliver ???
For those thinking All Hope Is Lost, I found this little essay, written by Bob Whitaker three years ago uplifting. He’s basically saying that fear of imminent collapse is kind of an Aryan trait – maybe the very turmoil we all feel is what fuels us.
He also makes clear that we have power and communication methods our ancestors couldn’t dream of. So, All Is Not Lost. More Whites are slowly waking up.
http://www.whitakeronline.org/blog/2009/03/21/tim-where-is-the-revolution/
@Jason Speaks:
All is most certainly not lost. In large part because more people like yourself Jason are going to be waking up. More mainstream orientated, practical minded, non pie-in-sky moralising and naval gazing.
Something I also think is that the next big move are not going to be coming from the explicit WN movement. Its role is to provide support and education to people as they wake up. Eventually some of those people will be great leaers of tomorrow. Or maybe some are here among us already reading and/or commenting.
But one of the big lessons from the WN community is that the WN community is not good for anything beyond the education and enlightenment support. It’s too compromised.
But it is essential for what it does provide. Without KM’s knowledge from this site, for example, it would be impossible for a leader to form his strategy. If you don’t know what the objects are on the landscape and what needs to be overcome, you obviously have no hope at all no matter how brilliant you are.
Sorry meant “his long review” not “tenure”. Cell phone spell checker is a pain.
WN who critique Christianity are not Jews. That is just a slander. In many cases they are men of principal who are brave enough to offend others with what they believe is true. Count among them William Pierce too. Ever heard of that guy?
I am a Roman Catholic convert from Protestantism, but it was years of atheism and WN critique of Christianity, and education in radical Traditionalism, that cleared the cobwebs from my brain and allowed me to resume communal religious observance with intentionality and not as a puppet. I of course chose the formation based in Rome which for all its faults is more syncretic of the ancient polytheistic cults of our ancestors.
I urge all persons not only to seek a religious community that nourishes them- but also seek the Truth. If St Thomas Aquinas is my example. He respected the wisdom of the pagans, integrated Aristotle into what was a very Platonic Christianity, helping pave the way
For resurgence of science and technology, he affirmed reason and the observation of physical reality a way of knowing truth, and he treated atheist philosophical positions with respect. Are we above this example today?
Wow I meant Revilo Oliver. Can we get an edit function here please? Otherwise mobile posting will be a mess.
@Julian Curtis Lee:
I’m suprised Z.O.G. spoke to you this way Julian. You do a lot of good work….you were one of the first people I came across in the WN world…on YouTube…you and Duke.
I don’t personally believe in astrology or anything like that. But what I do believe – and have seen – is that some individual people have something special going on with them, and someone like that, if he/she does tarot or astrology or whatever, will make it work. But the astrology or tarot or tealeaves or whatever, is just a medium for what is special in that person. IMHO.
Another thing, I don’t mean to upset the apple cart, but it is determined minorities that make successful revolutions not big tents. Big tents that have failed us include southern democrats. Remember them, segregation now and forever? Then came LBJ and civil rights act. Big tent needed black votes, sign em up!
No – every successful big tent is just a resource harvesting operation for a smaller one.
We need some outreach stuff but we also need some points of agreement to move forward without constant friction. The tent is never bigger than it has to be. The Jews figured this out wandering around in the desert. Ever wonder why they discourage conversion so fiercely? Heck I heard they make you chop the end of ones member off. Now that’s asking for a sacrifice!
@Julian Curtis Lee:
Are you making new videos on YouTube? I really like them a lot. I like having different voices in support of White people.
The anti-Christian crew here are despicable. Given that most whites are Christians, probably 90% I believe, I fail to see the upside of your crapping on the faith. The Jewish/media attacks on Christianity have weakened the moral fiber of the culture to make it easier for them to control us. Again, this is obvious stuff. Yes, they fear us because we’re white and they fear us because we’re Christians. The media has a never ending false claim that “Hitler was a Christian,” when he in fact loathed Christianity and said that it turned Germans into sissies.
Some of the dumbest (and I mean this sincerely) theories of Christianity I have ever seen are in the posts above this one. I have no idea where this nonsense could possibly come from. That Jews invented Christianity to control us has to be the silliest most tinfoil hat stupid thing I have ever heard.
@Anty ep:
Anty-ep – you’re right….and wrong. The concept of a determined minority can be regarded in many different ways. A leadership is a determined minority if it will suceed. On the other hand all determined minorities must get the majority on board, either through fear and coercion, or through ideology, or the truth.
This is the sense in which I value the concept of Truth in our movement. Not in terms of what our tactics should be or anything likethat. What Works has primacy there. But no…in terms of the fact that as a determined minority, we and only we, are seeking the mainstream on board because we love them and we are them and want them to survive and thrive.
So it’ll always come down to a determined minority of people. Sometimes, it’ll come down to just one person. That person could be you at some key juncture. What you do at that time, might determine the whole line of history. Or me, or any one of us.
But we have to become a big movement in terms of followers and supporters. And like I say….we’re the only ones seeking support from the euro-descendent majority that can truthfully say “we are of you and for you”.
@Anty ep:
“Ever wonder why they discourage conversion so fiercely?”
No dude…it’s because they are a racial movement from the start.
Our Protesta-Baalian church recently held a joint service with Jews Muslims and “Mystics”. When it came for the nice white minister to read the Gospel all he did was explain how we do it without actually reading anything of Christs words.
@Nathan Winslow:
You’re right in saying that WN’s going down the road of trashing Christianity is a bad gig with no upside.
But what we need ontop of Christianity is a kind of meta-faith into which Christianity but also other beliefs and perspectives can comfortably fit.
It wouldn’t matter then, if Christianity and say Paganism didn’t agree with eachother, just so long as they both agreed with the meta-ideology.
The meta-ideology has to also meet other requirements such as to be acceptable…welcomed even (at least initially) by non-whites.
It would be at that “meta” level that the problems of “who is White” and “Who can convert” would be dealt with. At the level of Christianity, anyone could convert from any race. But at that “meta” level, there would be other criteria.
It might lead eventually to a dividing process within Christianity, but not necessarily one that resulted in a schism. There is not need for that….White Christianity should be able to be friends with, and made stronger by, a strong bond with Non-White Christianity. Just so long as there is a clean boundary…which is what that meta-ideology (or faith) would provide.
@Jason Speaks: As you said, over half of all babies born in America aren’t white, but because ( a common argument) most of the CEO’s are white men (for now), we are not supposed to sound the alarm. The Titanic is sinking, and only the rich have lifeboat access.
The rest of us are going to be slaves to the US government.
@Julian Curtis Lee:
Sounds a bit simplistic to this reader. Factor in that White Europeans existed for tens of thousands of years before X-tian-ity/ism was forced on them, and even then was “morphed” to fit White spirituality prior to the alien theological imposition … and a different picture emerges.
Are you really trying to say that prior to the Levantine G-d being force-fed to European peoples they had no morality, no morals, no certitude, no social structure based on a native morality? Is that really what you think?
To make that claim would be to say that without the Levantine God’s arrival, White European peoples were nothing, just worthless. I don’t believe that, and don’t think you do either.
That said, yes, for quite a long time the WORD “Christianity” has been enshrined as THE European spirituality. And yes, it ain’t gonna die an easy death, in spite of predictions. People need an outlet for their natural inclination to believe in something, especially something which lays claim to conquering the grim reaper.
But so long as we are connected at the hip, via that “religion”, we are still in the thrall of the jew-book, whether the “new” or the “old” versions. We are still enthralled to someone else’s g-d. And that g-d rules us so long as we worship it.
The first step will be a spiritual step, but it must be a step AWAY from an alien g-d which almost by definition, the definition of its creators, has no love for us. Maybe it’s part of your destiny to light a lamp for our people to have someplace to go TOWARD, rather than an alien sand-demon who has no love for our people. Show us a path, a light unto our OWN nation!
@Luke: I don’t want you to misunderstand me – I’m in favor of keeping the jews out. As a businessman, I have dealt with them and they will sneak whatever they can out of a deal, they have to be watched closely, so I cut them off when they start their antics. Usually, they come back and play by my rules. This is why I advocate spartan living. They can see they have no hook in me – after all, my house and everything in it is paid for, and I don’t lust after the things of this life. They probably come to me because my prices are lower – but that is because my expenses are lower, too. My business is also paid off, so no one can levarage against me.
Back to the compromise: I don’t trust them to convert and become white nationalists overnight. But what about three or four generations who have converted to Christianity, and lived it sincerly? Surely even the jews aren’t willing to give up their life for three generations just to screw us over? It is a legitimate question to ponder, when does a white looking man become white enough and free enough of the jewish beast, the blacks, the mexicans, indians, etc?
Perhaps the 1/32 rule?
If we breed most of the jewishness out of them, i think we can handle them. After all, as white men we have made modern civilization with everything it entails, for better when used by our greatest men, and for worse when used by parasites.
@Mickey Meadows: i agree with you, Mickey. I could welcome all races to Christianity, but only whites, pagan or not, to the homeland.
Some concept such as the Tower of Babel could be could useful to explain to the brownish Christians why we love them but God wants us to remain apart in our lives. They adapt Christianity to their culture now, anyway.
I believe Christianity could co exist peacefully with a white nationalist “religion” and both of us could be fully aware of jewish unworthiness.
I threw out that “anti-X-tian” meme for several reasons: to stimulate debate, to elicit the usual responses from “believers”, and to raise another question.
The question I want to raise is perhaps a question for Dr. MacDonald to discuss in another article. That question is about the “fit” of what is still called “religion” with the evolved “consciousness” of Whites.
Is it possible to strip away the historical baggage of an imposed religion, one well knit into “how things are” at this point, and look at what Dr. MacDonald calls the “Uniqueness” of White People … and come up with some ideas about the nature of a “religion” which fits us ?
I realize that Dr. MacDonald used the term “Uniqueness” in reference to “Western Civilization”, and not “Whites”. I see a problem with, at this point in the game, tying our “Whiteness” down to a corrupted “civilization” which, while including what we think of as “us” (smirk), also includes much that is not us psychologically-spiritually, and appears more and more like a ball and chain on our visionary prospects for our people.
Is it possible to begin hashing out the UNIQUE psychology of White peoples, rather than “The West”, and then working from those toward an understanding of how we tend to allow enemy pirates to board our ships? Can someone talk about this unique psychology in a way that shows us more about what we ARE? I don’t think we know much about that at this point, since much of what we’ve been TOLD about ourselves, has not been sourced in our own thinking about ourselves.
We really don’t know much about our “history”. Likewise our own psychology. We’ve had so many “isms” and “ologies” imposed on our “new brains”, that we are awash in confusion by words. Words crafted to confuse and disorient. Even the word “religion” is not exempt.
@Gregor:
“The first step will be a spiritual step”
no no no no no no. You might as well say “the first step is restoring Western Civilization to its biological heirs”
These are end-steps. Things we would like to do if we had power back over our destiny.
But the next step….or massive struggle…is how do we get that power back? In terms of a strategy how do we do it? In terms of real objects of power on the ground that we attain, how do we do it?
Ideas like the next step is spiritualism assumes power will be there to protect such a process should it start to get traction. As I say, you might as well assume we’ve already won, if you are assuming that.
@Pierre de Craon: On this and so many other topics, you are a great sage. Your endorsement of Athanasius was also spot on. He makes some very insightful posts, I am glad to see him here.
That the white race has men such as yourself is proof enough to me that we are God’s chosen people.
@Anty ep:
Thank you, Anty ep.
“If you’re not a good Christian, you must be a jew and an enemy of Whites!” is beyond silly, yet it’s always a hurdle placed in our paths.
@Gregor:
“Is it possible to strip away the historical baggage of an imposed religion, one well knit into “how things are” at this point, and look at what Dr. MacDonald calls the “Uniqueness” of White People … and come up with some ideas about the nature of a “religion” which fits us ? ”
Gregor – I think these are excellent lines of thought you are going down, and that it is very important area that I would stand with you and urge our intellectuals to take up. Or you yourself even. I am not an intellectual to be able to do this, but what I do have, I would say, is an intuitive sense of what you are describing, would look like on the ground.
I would point you to the idea of a ‘meta’ faith, that as you say, would fit not just the aims and objectives of securing europeans as a people, but also reflect uniquely European developments such as science and objective philosophy and so on.
But on the practical side, a meta-faith that both Christianity and Paganism and Atheism and whatever else, can comfortably fit and, in that context of the meta-faith be wholly shoulder to shoulder with one another. Then, on some level below that context, can bicker and fight as much as they like.
I appreciate your explanation of throwing anti-Christian ideas out there to stimulate debate, but I think it’s a bad call doing that. It really is not going to help to be fighting amongst ourselves about various items that are precious to some of us but not to others. These are all objects of diversity within our culture and people, which aren’t going anywhere, and which should find ways to make into strengths.
@Gregor
” I haven’t seen you in the Swarm. Have you been hiding your work?”
I suspect I am not the only woman who avoids venues where you might show up.
@Vlad Writes:
I concur. I would go so far as to say that Pierre redeems all the trouble those Irish immigrants gave us. There is just that little pesky immigration act that Ted Kennedy passed. Looks like Pierre will just have to keep contributing for a while longer.
@Mickey Meadows:
Mickey, I don’t think we’re looking at the word “spiritual” in the same way. I’m not using it in the sense of some organized “religion”, I’m looking at it in a way of an inner-vision that inspires and motivates, yes … activates a people.
Without some “belief” in ourselves, in a manner not under the control of an alien “spirit” (yahweh, etc.), we can’t even consider “power”.
That said, I really like what you said earlier about a “meta-level” of identity consciousness that trumps universalistic belief systems which lead to our destruction. Sounds good on “paper”, and sounds good to me, but even THAT will have to become some sort of “faith” before anyone buys into it.
I’m thinking of these “things” in terms of what Bruno Latour calls networked objects, with the network being a type of glue comprised of loyalty-trust that both enables and convinces people to “buy in”. Given the reality of the Bell-Curve (even though it’s not “real”, but just an abstraction!), this network will not be bound by “mere” science and rational thought. Would that humans worked that way, but ….. well, you know. Keep on thinkin’!
@Alice Teller:
Alice, your cat-woman never fails us! “Gregor” is just a mirror that let’s you see yourself … something I imagine you like a lot.
@Vlad Writes:
Well let’s look at it this way, suppose a several million Filipinos lived as Christians for 4 generations (as I take it many have already). Could they live in our White homeland? I’d say the answer is no. So why would any exception be made for Jews?
This isn’t a Christian homeland, it’s a White homeland we are talking about right? I’m not interested in building a Multiracial Christian country. Are you thinking of Jews as White like us, but just practitioners of a different religion? Because there is more to it than that.
christianity is the only religion that is being attacked in every single nation on the planet earth. THE ONLY ONE! it is this way because christianity is the only true religion.
everything the white race ever accomplished, we accomplished after we accepted the Lord Jesus Christ. so anybody who thinks we need to get back to,”pre roman nature religions,” is falling for all the pagan propaganda that hollywood is pumping out now.
if dancing naked and barking at the moon, while having orgies, and throwing babies into bonfires, and torturing prisoners, is a better alternative to you than the gospel of Christ, then by all means, start praying to loki or whatever.
the white race along with the rest of humanity was lost in darkness, and that is why Jesus Christ came into the world to save us.
Jesus said that the jews were enslaved to their father the devil, and the new testament, (which in my opinion is the only testament christians should ever read) is filled with jews murdering and destroying the church. so why would so many white nationalist fall for jewish hatred of christianity?
christian evangelicals who really worship israel have been led astray by the very false prophets Jesus warned us about. don’t hate Jesus for that, but hate the wolves dressed in sheeps clothing, like hagee and robertson, and the rest of the christian zionists who have led america astray.
here in indiana we are pretty rock solid in our love of Jesus Christ. we also are solid in wanting the invasion of these third worlders who hate us to end. why any white nationalist would attempt to drive us out of their ranks instead of embracing us as brethren is beyond my ability to comprehend. because you can not restore the white race without us. so maybe you should cut us and my fellow christians some slack.
The masses are inherently feminine, in the abstract sense. They have a formless movement and identity, but they are more potential than active, full of latent energy that must be chanelled and unleashed. They respond to leadership. The nature of leadership is that it is always a numerical minority compared to whatever group it leads. That sounds simple. But contemporary Americans are poorly educated almost as a rule, even those who have gone to university and private schools. Especially in the area of politics, they have been all life long mislead wit the trash thinking of the Enlightenment, which was in itself a propaganda movement designed to pave the way for the victory of money, capital, and the growing middle class over the traditional middle european social organization of mutually supporting Church and aristocracy.
As we Americans have lifelong been filled with ochlocratic shibboleths, false propaganda, and indulgent slogans, in place of civics and political philosophy, we constantly over-estimate the need to “convert the masses” etc.
There are two groups of Americans who are under no such illusions. Firstly, madison avenue. The advertising industry knows that their job is not to persuade it is to cause something to happen: to cause consumers to spend money on their client products. They make a thing happen, they use whatever means are necessary, and those means vary from obvious to sublime, rational to wicked. But they are focused on a specific action result of a group and the group is merely defined by the financial need and market sector of the client.
That kind of insight is taken into consideration by group two, the political engineering class. The campaign managers and so forth, who work hand in glove with group the first, to cause an action to occur– a vote to be cast in a specific market which is the geographic territory in the specific election. Their methods also range from good to bad, obvious to subtle, legal to illegal and so forth.
What they have in common is that they use, they must use, mass media. mass media is of course operated disproportionately by jewish editors and content writers and managers, and is owned disproportionately at the corporate level by jews too, as has been the case for a long time, at least back into the 1920s for sure when Codreaneau made specfic insights like these in his book “For my legionaries.” Of course the jews in the finance sector can leverege a buyout of any uncooperative mass media formation they please, which is why their continued presence in investment banking and international finance is so key to their power as well.
So jews, advertisers, and campaign managers, understand this reality about social action and results, that they are the deteremined minorities in American who make things happen, and that the mindless formation of Americans who comprise this group and mass or that one, are essentially passive and unorganized and hence unable to resist.
In America there are some formations that are organized socially in a hierarchical and masculine way, and those are publically traded corporations, trade unions, universities, and churches following the aristocratic imperial model of the Roman Catholic Church, although due to the rejection of the Pontifex Maximus the Orthodox and Anglicans are all somewhat less coordinated than the Romans. Now, those organizations, you may think they are up to good in one or another case or not, but they are organized and lead. Democratic-republican states like the USA are not organized and lead in the same way as even a constitutional monarchy such as England, nor even the same way as a Napoleonic French republican model, even. We like federalism, we like a government that is more formless and passive and inert. Protestants who are deriavative of Calvin or Zwingli likewise prefer those organziational forms although the Luterhans tend to lend towards the Catholic episcopal model.
In any case, as Americans we generally do not think about the deep nature of groups and how they are organized. Americans are aggressively taught through both democratic political slogans and also protestantism, that the individual conscience is everything. Now that is not the way people around the world think but that is what we are inflicting on them with our American “freedoms” or whatever. We are warped and deformed in our very nature as Americans into an excessive individualism. This in turn warps our perception about what it takes to change things in society.
No signficiant change that overtakes a majority is ever initiated by a majority. It is always initiated by individuals and small organized groups. A majority responds to leadership. Leadership is not accidental and it is an active relationship to a group not just the activity of a lone person.
This is how things work.
@chad:
Chad, this isn’t really true. Christianity isn’t being attacked in Africa, Asia or Latin America. It is only being attacked in White countries, inasmuch as it is a proxy for Whites. White people created Christianity, just like all White culture. Not the other way around.
If things become even more racially polarized in the next 10 years, Whites will find themselves voting for a more-or-less pro-White party, even if they are White Christians who generally put The Word far above their people. They will find a way to justify it.
The funny thing going forward is that White liberals may have a hard time getting elected. Brown people will want brown politicians representing them. Even now they are complaining in California about their two White (actually Jewish) senators. It will be fun to see a lot of White liberals forever frozen out of political power by the very people they brought into this country.
jason speaks, you are saying things that aren’t true. black christians in africa are being genocided by islamic psychopaths in sudan, somalia, and other places. christian black women are raped and christian priests are being executed.
in columbia farc lunatics routinely target christians for murder and kidnapping. in brazil christians are more and more persecuted for their pro life and anti homosexual stances. and are you really saying christians aren’t persecuted in cuba?
you make a lot of good points on a lot of issues but on this you are wrong. christianity is being attacked EVERYWHERE.
@Gregor:
Wrong again. I assure you the mirror has not been my friend for at least twenty years.
my apologies i didn’t see that you also included asia in your comment, now if you like i could go down the list of christian activists who have been murdered, inprisoned, or have vanished in china, vietnam, india, burma, and a lot of other countries in asia. but you could just as easily research it yourself.
maybe you just don’t know of christian persecution because our jewish masters bury it from the american people. but it is happening, and it is happening everywhere.
@chad:
Oh I know there are tons of ethnic rivalries in Africa, but the number of Christians in Africa has gone from a few million in 1900 to almost 400 million now. No one is trying to take the big Jesus statue down in South America. These are simple facts, I am repeating them over and over to break through the haze all you guys have.
I am NOT anti-Christian, not by a long shot. But it ain’t some abstract system of religion they are trying to kill. It is YOU they are trying to kill.
@chad:
I’m sure every religion can produce a long list of persecuted people. But Jews don’t give two craps about Christians in Africa, nor do any other anti-Whites. It’s not the Christians they are trying to kill off, it is the Whites. And they ARE succeeding. Why is it so hard to find pro-White people on a website devoted to Whites?
ethnic rivalries? every religion can produce a long list of persecuted people? you said christianity wasn’t being attacked in africa, asia, and latin america, i informed you how woefully ill informed you were on the issue.
jews are the driving force behind the persecution of christians in africa, and elsewhere. if you really believe that the driving force behind talmudic judaism isn’t the complete eradication of the Christian religion from the planet earth, then what can i say to that?
i never said the ranks of Christians isn’t growing. it may be sadly dying in white nations, but the followers of Christ are growing all over the planet. in iran, in china, in pakistan and even in afghanistan, people are willing to risk torture and death because of their love of Christ. they recognize the truth, and the truth will set them free.
unfortunately here in the west, our wisdom has made us fools. under Christ america became the greatest nation the world had ever known. now that america is rejecting Christ, we are dying. this is not a coincidence.
@Anty ep:
You’ve got it backwards. It is Jews who borrowed from Zoroastrianism, during the Babylonian exile. In fact, a certain group of Jews borrowed so heavily from Zoroastrian that were called “Pharisees”(Parsis) by other Jews. There are too many ideas Judaism stole from Zoroastrianism to list here. Google the subject for more information.
Revilo Oliver had it backward.
@chad:
Hey, chad, I think you’re in the wrong place. The Christian fundie nutjob sites are that way —>
Just to be sarcastic and make a point, we have the:
1. Religion Firsters
2. 911 Conspiracy Firsters
3. Mason Conspiracy Firsters
4. Constitution Firsters
5. Libertarianism Firsters
6. Hitler Firsters
7. Pagan Firsters
8. Lizard People Firsters
All these groups seem to be kinda more-or-less in favor of the White race surviving, well as some kind of an incidental side effect, but the really important thing is number one through eight.
Well, what we need are more White People Firsters. But don’t worry, while you may not be a part of any movement due to your putting The Big Bad Holy Word Combined with the Revealed Conspiracies of Snoopy, first and foremost, you will support the White party when things get more a bit more intense. You’ll come running to us when you feel the fear, and you’ll find a way to justify it.
The Next Christianity
http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/facts/fm0018.html
In looking back over the enormous changes wrought by the twentieth century, Western observers may have missed the most dramatic revolution of all. While secular movements like communism, feminism, and environmentalism have gotten the lion’s share of our attention, the explosive southward expansion of Christianity in Africa, Asia, and Latin America has barely registered on Western consciousness. Nor has the globalization of Christianity – and the enormous religious, political, and social consequences it portends – been properly understood.
Rise of Christianity in the Third World
http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=5739
Pennsylvania State University Professor Philip Jenkins argues persuasively in “The Next Christendom: The Rise of Global Christianity” that Christianity, more than Islam, will shape the world’s rapidly growing parts. Consider this data:
- Ghana has more Presbyterians than Scotland, Nigeria has more Anglicans than Britain, and China soon will have more Christians than all but six nations.
- By 2025, 67 percent of Christians will live in Africa, Latin America or Asia.
- By 2050, the world will have three Christians for every two Muslims.
- By 2050, a third of Latinos and Asians will come from Christian backgrounds.
Looking at Catholic believers, in particular, Jenkins says that by 2025, 75 percent of all Catholics will live in Africa, Asia and Latin America.
The growth of Christianity in the Third World has important political and social implications. For instance, religion, and not the state, could unify Third World residents.
The Rise Of Anti-Western Christianity
http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/4693
If “Europe is the faith” for Western Christianity, then, Jenkins maintains, “Africa is the faith” for the coming Christianity. In 1900, Europe possessed two-thirds of the world’s Christians. By 2025, that number will fall below 20%, with most Christians living in what Jenkins calls the “Global South”, largely a proxy term for “Third World”. The Global South could be thought of as slightly modified Gondwanaland, including Africa, Latin America, Philippines, southeast Asia/India, etc. This Global South, not the West, will be the new heart of Christendom.
The statistics are compelling. By 2025, nearly 75% of the world’s Catholics will be non-Western (mostly African and mestizo). At present, Nigeria has the world’s largest Catholic theological school. Our Lady of Peace in Yamoussoukro may be the world’s largest Catholic church. India has more Christians than most Western nations. By 2050, more than 80% of Catholics in the U.S. will be of non-Western (often mestizo) origins. By 2050, only a small fraction of Anglicans will be English or of the European Diaspora. Nigeria, not England, is the new heart of Anglican Christianity. Lutherans, Presbyterians and other mainstream denominations find their chief centres of growth in Africa, Asia and Latin America. Then there are the ever-growing Pentecostal and other indigenous Christian churches. Pentecostals have made tremendous inroads in Latin America, and churches like the Zion Christian Church have grown tremendously in South Africa. The Zion Christian Church attracts over a million pilgrims every Easter (more than greet the Pope in St. Peter’s Square on Easter mornings).
But this is not simply a matter of static (European) Christianity being implemented by people of other races. Christianity itself is radically changing. The New Christendom is “no mirror image of the Old. It is a truly new and developing entity”. Jenkins writes:
“As Christianity moves South, it is in some ways returning to its roots. To use the intriguing description offered by Ghanaian scholar Kwame Bediako, what we are now witnessing is ‘the renewal of a non-Western religion.’”
The Pope on Racism
From a sermon on the second creation story in Genesis 2:
Thus the unity of the whole human race at once becomes visible: we are all made from one earth. There are no varying forms of “blood and soil”. There are no fundamental differences between one group of human beings and another, as the myths of so many religions thought and as worldviews of our time also claim. There are no differences of caste and race which make people different in their value. We are all one humanity, formed out of God’s one earth. [...] The Bible says an unequivocal “No” to every kind of racism, to every division of the human race.
(Joseph Ratzinger/Benedikt XVI: Berührt vom Unsichtbaren, Freiburg im Breisgau 2000/2005, p. 61)
Catholic Social Teaching and Racism
http://www3.villanova.edu/mission/CSTresource/racism.htm
Racism is a sin; a sin that divides the human family, blots out the image of God among specific members of that family, and violates the fundamental human dignity of those called to be children of the same Father. Racism is the sin that says some human beings are inherently superior and others essentially inferior because of races. It is the sin that makes racial characteristics the determining factor for the exercise of human rights. It mocks the words of Jesus: “Treat others the way you would have them treat you.” Indeed, racism is more than a disregard for the words of Jesus; it is a denial of the truth of the dignity of each human being revealed by the mystery of the Incarnation.
THE CHURCH AND RACISM: TOWARD A MORE FRATERNAL SOCIETY
Pontifical Commission Justice and Peace
http://www.ewtn.com/library/curia/pcjpraci.htm
Introduction
1. Racial prejudice or racist behavior continues to trouble relations between persons, human groups and nations. Public opinion is increasingly incensed by it. Moral conscience can by no means accept it. The Church is especially sensitive to this discriminatory attitude. The message which she has drawn from biblical Revelation strongly affirms the dignity of every person created in God’s image, the unity of humankind in the Creator’s plan, and the dynamics of the reconciliation worked by Christ the Redeemer who has broken down the dividing wall which kept opposing worlds apart(1) in order to recapitulate all persons in him.
zog,
Of course Jews borrowed from Zoroastrianism, and it was the Persians who ended the captivity and rebuilt the Temple. Prior to contact with them they had no concept of the afterlife, no personified Old Scratch, no hell, and other things.
lI dont agree with RPO’s hypothesis about this. but I liked his book “Origins” and found it a very good treatment of the subject even though I disagree on many points.
Of course Islam borrows from Zoroastrianism too, with the final judgment and the monotheism and other things, although its hard to know what it borrowed from Zor. versus Christianity since it had geographic and cultural contact with both. I am no scholar.
Anyhow, there was a tolerance in the ancient polytheistic world that is probably part of the authentic Tradition, that was rjeected by Zoroastrians who destroyed Greek temples during their invasions and so forth. Christians and Muslims have followed that lead, obviously. You can reject that as ignorant and barbaric, but, Christianity and Islam have vanquished almost all polytheisms that stood in their path and so even if you are a total atheist you have to wonder and consider about what it is about these religions that makes for a more effective social glue.
Hillaire Belloc has a good book called the Great Heresies that is an itneresting study of the development of Catholic dogma which addresses Islam in a very interesting way, attributing its success in conquesting byzantium not only to force of arms but also the nullification of usurious debts which was implemented by Muslims.
I think another good primer comparing Greek and germanic polytheism is Edith Hamilton’s Mythology. My mom gave it to me when I was ten and it was assigned numerous times along my education and if you read and assimilate that entire book anyone will be a lot farther down the line to discussing these matters intelligently and dispassionately. I am seeing some comments which suggests to me that better information and general development of knowledge will make for more fruitful conversations.
ah, pandering by Joseph Ratzinger, so surprising that a former Hitler Jugend would repudiate “racism.”
Any Catholic can say, well I am not a racist, that is taking it to a fault, I just love my people, its not a sin to love your own nation or family or ethnic kind. And it isnt. That is not the dogma. “racism” is a contrivance from the first and a word that has a plastic meaning in the mouth of whomever utters it.
To call yourself a racism, to embrace it, is just a linguistic method like queers embracing the word queer. That is fine, I understand the idea, but I do not espouse it myself. To me it is a propaganda word like nazi and I’m not going to measure much of anything by propaganda-accusers nor politician/ leaders runnign the other way from it.
@Anty Ep: You wrote, “attributing its [Islam's] success in conquesting byzantium not only to force of arms but also the nullification of usurious debts which was implemented by Muslims.”
Paul Johnson in his book “A History of Christianity” attributes their success to the welcome that the Arian Christian peasantry, largely disenfranchised by the orthodox Catholic nomenklatura for centuries, gave them.
no where does it say in the new testament that in order to be a good christian you have to be for flooding your homeland with millions of people that aren’t like you. that is a lie promoted by those who reject the gospel of Christ and embrace the gospel of z.i.g. z.a.g. or whatever it’s name is.
God seperated us for a reason. so when jews wage war on the white race by making us minorities in europe and america, please don’t blame Christianity for that. because that is just ridiculous.
and for your information z.a.m.m.y., if kevin macdonald ever says that christians are not welcome on this website, i will respectfully leave. but until then, who are you to say over and over like a broken record, “why are christians coming to a website of an evolutionary psychologist?” in case you haven’t noticed there has been some really great christian articles on this website. (i particularly liked that clip filmed in the mall of all those good christian white folk singing the hallelujah chorus that was up last christmas or the christmas before).
here is the video i’m talking about if i’m allowed to post links here. listen to the words z.o.g. he shall reign for ever and ever. and if that makes me a christian fundy nut job then so be it. and i invite you to cry me a river. peace. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXh7JR9oKVE&list=FLMS1oWCS8lkuzSs8qsfpgdw&index=75&feature=plpp_video
@chad:
I would just sincerely ask all churchgoers to confront their church leaders if they see them working to increase immigration or create sanctuary cities. If you see your church putting on “diversity” shows, let them know you consider them anti-White. That’s my main complaint – too many decent White Christians turn a blind eye to the bad behavior of their churches on anti-White issues. We all need to confront the churches and organizations we belong to if they engage in anti-White behavior.
i am in complete agreement with you there jason speaks.
@Z.O.G.:
Good site. The basic message of Christianity is: don’t question authority, don’t think too much, just keep your head down and be a good slave for your master. You can see why Christianity had such a strong appeal not only to the jews but also to the kings of Europe who forcibly converted us to this cult and destroyed all of our native religions. Maybe these Christian values are beneficial for the functioning of a large, industrial society, but they certainly aren’t the values of a successful revolutionary movement.
Christians are just going to obey whoever has authority and are therefore completely useless to White nationalism.
@Athanasius: Ditto to what Alice Teller said.
christian values aren’t the values of a successful revolutionary movement? man, no wonder george washington and the boys lost the revolutionary war.
@Z.O.G.:
The name Pharisees is not derived from the word Parsis( “Persians”) but from the Hebrew Perushim, the “separated ones”, a name used by their opponents. They themselves called themselves Hasidim, “the pious ones”.
From Zoroastrianism Judaism derived : The idea of personified evil in the figure of “Satan” (Hebrew for “accuser”) from the Persian “Ahriman”, the idea of the end of the world , the resurrection of the dead and the final judgement, the idea of the Messiah (Persian : “Saoshyant”), the idea of heaven and hell, the idea of angels and the heavenly book in which the actions of men were inscribed.
As can be seen, Zoroastrianism “ennobled” Judaism from a rather primitive tribal revenge-cult to a kind of Higher Religion, although its lower elements were never entirely eliminated.
Via Judaism Zoroastrianism deeply influenced Christianity and thus Western civilization, a fact few Christians are aware of.
@chad:
Most of the intellectual and political leaders of the American revolution were anti-Christians like Thomas Paine, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, etc., or non-Christians who had a favorable view of Christianity like Ben Franklin. Washington’s religious views have been the subject of some dispute.
@chad:
Amen. Thank you.
@Jason Speaks: Please, no more of this, JS. It’s time for you at least to consider putting to rest this endless flogging of a dead horse and giving the increasingly overfocused mind-set behind it a well-earned siesta. You know full well in your saner moments—I estimate them at roughly 93 percent of your day—that the obsessive single-mindedness you are single-mindedly urging upon all, friend and foe alike, is simply not native to the white peoples of the planet.
If you still believe that Socrates was a white man with something to say to other white men, please recall that he constantly referred to the then centuries-old aphorism “man, know thyself” and embellished this core reflection, according to the Apology, with the crucial insight “the unexamined life is not worth living.”
I am convinced that you are simply wrong to assert, as you have in effect been doing, that whites won’t be able to do these things unless they survive. Rather, all the evidence of which I’m aware gesticulates frantically toward the polar opposite: whites simply may not survive unless they keep doing these things. Absent the biological imperative of love and concern for one’s immediate offspring and, by weaker extension, one’s kin, man’s nature is incapable of taking a “long” view—one that outlives himself—without active encouragement from his nascent but increasingly dormant capacity for looking beyond the four walls of his own flesh and desires. Since it is hardly arguable that the inclination not to reproduce in adequate numbers even to keep his place among the peoples of the earth in the present balance has been the rectangle on the baize table he’s placed something like all his chips on, your encouragement that he repudiate interest in the only other enlarging aspects of his nature is a sure recipe for his destruction or utter subjugation—call it what you will, so long as the words survive and prosper aren’t part of the formulation.
I do not believe that in your own private life as it is actually lived you put into play the robotic obsession that your words here endorse. Nor do I believe that you will soon begin practicing what you preach. And I thank heaven for that.
@Vlad Writes:
@Alice Teller:
Thank you both. I am not alone in having a temperamental inclination to extreme reclusiveness, a tendency reinforced by age and seriously impaired health. I am also not alone in having decided to shake myself free of that inclination out of an irritation born of frustration that people associated with a worthy but somewhat confused cause seemed stuck in a rut of misdirection either because (1) they couldn’t see that they were in the rut or (2) they didn’t see that the way out was right in front of them. So I decided to start putting my two cents in—whether out of an unrecognized underlying impulse of mere foolish vanity or to some useful purpose, others alone must judge. (N.B.: I am very, very heartened and grateful that you two regularly make encouraging sounds.)
Yet frustration is like toothache pain: it is only a moderate amount that prompts action (off to the ibuprofen or the dentist lickety-split!). A trifling amount gets overlooked, and an extreme amount renders one unable to function. Needless to say, the frustration level at TOO seldom if ever drops below the threshold of perception, but it frequently becomes almost too unbearable for words, as you yourselves know.
Since I neither comment nor write at length anywhere else and am most unlikely to alter my habits (years and years ago I wrote several articles for LRC but have no inclination ever to do so again), I suppose you two will be stuck with me here till one of three things happens: (1) inability to pay my bills leaves me no longer able to afford a medium-speed connection; (2) Vlad teaches me enough about entrepreneurship to allow me to open a Wisdom of the Ages storefront shop in my neighborhood (please don’t think I’m kidding, Vlad!); or (3) . . . do I really have to say what no. 3 is?
@Alice Teller: no problem, and thank you too.
and random the christianity of george washington is only in dispute if you are easily led astray by the likes of the american civil liberties union and the rest of the communists who rewrite history. they did it in russia and they are doing it here.
he was christian, and he wanted his boys to be christian, and they were christian.
which pretty much kills the theory that christianity can’t be the values of a successful revolutionary movement.
christians believe that God endowed us with certain inalienable rights. rights that no man can take away. if you try and take away the rights endowed by our creator, then it’s going to be on, and you are going to have a fight on your hands. which pretty much kills the theory that christianity is a religion for people who want to keep their heads down and be good slaves for their masters.
why else do you think this government hasn’t attempted to take away our guns yet?
so please random, just because you despise the followers of Christ, don’t just make stuff up out of the top of your head in order to attack us and our religion. thanks.
C.I. Scofield never translated anything. He merely annotated the existing King James Version with copious “study notes” promoting pro-Zionist Premillenial Dispensationalism theology and eschatology. Or at least he claimed authorship for these annotations. The final result produced a “Bible” that begins to resemble the Talmud in structure. There is core of original scripture that is embedded in added commentary.
Subsequent Bible translations have been similarly mutilated with Scofield’s judeolatrous blasphemies.
Scofield supposedly did most of this work while sojourning in Switzerland circa 1913. iow he was concurrently crossing paths in Switzerland with leading personalities of the World Zionist Congress and Jewish backed revolutionaries like V.I. Lenin.
Scofield’s book was subsequently published by the Oxford University Press. I’ve always found this decision a very curious transaction. Scofield held no recognized degree in theology. He is not known to have been able to read the Bible’s original languages of Greek, or Aramaic or medieval masoretic Hebrew. He was a known convicted swindler.
And in 1917 (!!) and 1967 (!!!) the Oxford University Press published “updated” editions of the Scofield Study Bible.
Scofield’s known personal character and morality was on a level with shabbos goys like Newt Gingrich. There is a reasonable suspicion he had unacknowledged help during his extended stay in Switzerland. London and New York were two additional cities to which Scofield trundled his “Study Bible” in advance of publication.
The real genesis of Scofield’s book looks like fertile field for some genuine fact based scholarship.
Some of the best and most valuable things are simple. Sleep is simple. Joy is simple. Food is simple.
A lot of ignorance and error comes in the form of over-complexifying.
(Jesus said a few things about that, I note.)
Here’s something else simple:
– Christian practice and attainment are not about history or the past.
– Christian practice/attainment is not about what “the pope said.”
– Christian practice is something one pursues here-now; and gets fruit from here-now.
All a White European needs to do to give value to his ancestors’ religion is to simply (yes, simply) sit inside of one of the great, quiet churches for a little while and quiet himself. Anybody attacking his ancestors’ religion who has not done this simple (yes, simple) thing — has no business attacking his People’s religion.
@Jason Speaks: I’m trying to backtrack as fast as I can. I know it wouldn’t be a theocracy. I’m fine with that as long as we have religious freedom and I can persue Christianity. I’ve decided after reading some of the posts that I can accept converted jews into Christianity and be consistent, and only accept non jewish white people into the mythical white only homeland. However, when does the jew label go away? If a jewess marries Mel Gibson’s grandson, how far down the line must non jews go to make the line acceptable?
@Julian Curtis Lee: “Christianity is the religion worth twenty centuries of our European ancestors, who were virtuous, not stupid people.”
Thank you for this Julian. It boggles the mind that millions of whites in the U.S. today, are CLUELESS, to the fact of how their ancestors sweated and worked like animals and had faith in Christianity, while building this nation and the nations of Europe. Where do these ignorant European -Americans imagine that Christianity grew to be so powerfull.
Point number two. The ignorant, stupid, and butt dumb attitude of so many white Americans, who diss their own religious roots, but at the same time argue for the rights of Moslems, Jews, Mormons, etc. JUST BLOWS ME AWAY. They listen to stories about how Mosques are springing up everywhere in the U.S. and in Europe, and get alarmed. DUH DUH, you dim witted people. What is so surprising that Mosques and Temples and Museums dedicated to what is the opposite of Christianity, fills the vacuum that WORTHLESS AND CLUELESS AMERICANS HAVE CREATED BY THEIR REPLACEMENT OF CHRISTIANITY WITH THEIR WORSHIP OF MONEY AND THINGS. Then they wonder why moslems and mormons and Jews and every other faith is taking over the nation that their Christian ancestors left them for an inheritance!!!! If this isn’t an exmaple of selling your inheritance for a bowl of pottage, tell me what is my friends?!
@Jason Speaks: I agree that it will be fun when the idiot white liberals who campaigned for all this non white immigration get their arses kicked out of office by brown voters. It has already happened and the liberals really have no solution for their stupidity. I have explained it to some liberals that the third worlders that they are bringing in are hostile to homosexuality, women’s rights, white people in general, environmentalism, etc. Where in the world does there exist a non-white liberal country? They just look at me blankly. The liberal nightmare is devouring itself, and taking all of us with it.
@Vlad Writes: Vlad, it is amazing, but maybe not as amazing as one first would believe, how throughly, how completely, the leftists have succeeded in their goals in changing the U.S. from what it once was. I say it’s not that amazing because afterall, being left without an alternative value system(religion)most Americans became easy prey to the left’s dangling in front of them, “free love”, womans “liberation,”(which is debatable), “situational ethics”, “do what feels good”, “I’m OK your OK” , L.B. J’s “GREAT SOCIETY”(resulting in destruction of the black AND white family unit) and every other idea that essentially frees one of responsiblity and acccountablility. That’s what is now the HALLMARK of life in the U.S. “it’s not my fault”, I’ll look around to see who I can blame”.,etc. etc.
@Pierre de Craon: Pierre:
next time I venture to hymie town I will have to figure out a way to treat you to your favorite drink at your favorite Irish pub (my wife’s side of the family is Irish) and see if we can trade wisdom of the ages from you, and entrepreneurship from me FTBO our beloved white people. Hopefully, the pub owner won’t be paying rent to the Christ Killers!
Any religion not based on the immutable laws of nature is superstition.
That doesn’t mean they are not useful at times.
@chad:
Pretty much doesn’t, since as I pointed out above the intellectual leadership ranged from non-Christian to anti-Christian. That’s before we get into the fact that removing the jews from power in the US is going to take something a lot more “revolutionary” than rebelling against a king on the other side of the ocean.
LOL! Then why isn’t it on already?!?
Because White Christians are so submissive that they’ve allowed themselves to be reduced to minority status in their own country without firing a shot in self-defense. In fact, they worship as “God’s chosen” the very people who are killing them, and are more worried about harm coming to Israel than to their own people.
@Gregor:
“We’re not looking at spiritualism in the same way”
Gregor – I agree and also I don’t think this is an important word to either of us. What I am interested in discovering is the deeper significance to the shared insights we are all having that [a] there needs to be spiritual change before anything can happen (you, others) [b] there needs to be sufficient power to protect that growth of new spirit should it gain traction (me, others)
What we’re looking at here – visually speaking – is a process that evolves and grows in strength and momemtum, that has at least two initially independent strands (that which brings spiritual change, that from which power emerges with which to protect that spiritual movement as it gains traction and so comes under attack).
Two (in fact more) strand that intertwine in this way, and interact…..in such way that both benefit by growing yet stronger.
I’m describing a dynamic…I’m describing abstract characteristics of a revolution with evolutionary characteristics, that would be necessary in order to be able to emerge in the current environment and grow in power and complexity.
There are many independent strands that need to occur. But those strands are dependent on eachother in the sense that, for example, whatever the ‘spirituoal’ side preaches early on, must not be ‘stronger’ or more ‘radical’ than the emerging but still embryonic ‘power’ will be able to protect.
So there has to be structure, there has to be some understanding that we start minimal and mild, but with several strands that will come together and interact in such way as to make all strands steadily more powerful and complex and sophisticated.
This is abstact stuff I am talking here, but it is essential our revolution takes this form, because this is a form that can survive and thrive and grow and eventually prevail in this specific environment with these specific forces ranged against us.
@Vlad Writes:
It won’t be fun Vlad. It isn’t going to feel good at all being proven right like that. This is because by the time it comes, all those liberals will already have realized and will feel like they always knew, and that actually this was what they had been saying all along. While others will blame us for making multiculturalism fail.
That world ahead, is a chaotic, confused world. Nothing feels good there, and all the liberals that made it happen have died off, and the new load of them don’t even understand what happened.
It isn’t going to feel good, so forget it. The only thing that will feel good is success. It will feel good to be sitting there in 50 years when we are 70 or 80 or 90 or 100, sitting there in a better world full of young people that don’t understand what nearly went wrong and became a nightmare, and look nonplussed when some people point to us and say “it’s because of them you have what you have”.
@Julian Curtis Lee:
Christians think they are Jews because the Jews told them so.
If they don’t agree with the Jews then they anti-Semitic.
If they are anti-Semitic, they can’t be Christians.
the intellectual leadership? who was actually fighting the war random? george washington and the starved and freezing troops at valley forge, that’s who.
i could set here all night and debate how christian the “intellectual leadership” of the early american nation was. thomas jefferson was a lot more christian than you are giving him credit for after all. you spout two names and then claim that that was the intellectual leadership. but you are just some rambling guy who doesn’t even sign his name to his posts. and i’m tired of the conversation.
so continue to spout about how christians have allowed their nation to be flooded with illegals, and how they haven’t fired a shot to stop it. and people who have eyes to see will obviously see through your hypocrisy to note that odin worshippers and atheists such as yourself have ALSO allowed your nation to be flooded with illegals, and haven’t fired a shot to stop it.
the communist jews who wanted to destroy america knew that they first had to destroy americas faith in Christ. inalienable rights can’t be inalienable if there is no God after all. congratulations for helping them succeed!
and everytime anybody like kevin macdonald attempts to unite our race and wake us up to our destruction from talmudic jews and their dupes, geniuses like you will make sure any chance of white christians and white atheists uniting for the future of our people and our children will be brought to a halt by anonymous atheists filled with hate driving away any christians who happen to come here.
@Mickey Meadows:
p.s. if anyone wants to know how failure feels, pop your head into the ‘part 2′ thread over across the hall. That’s us in 20 or 30 years if we don’t do better.
I find that most pro-Whites and WN’s who criticize Christianity do so without having made any investigation into it as religious seekers themselves. One should truly study and test a thing before criticizing it. Their attacks usually center on criticism of historical narratives in various ways, not on the results of religious discipline. As if religion was nothing but some historical stories and their veracity or non-veracity. (Religion teaches all history is one’s mind-erection.) As if Christianity’s nothing but a past-story and not a discipline, experience, or attainment to be gained here-now.
It’s inescapable that when Whites were strongly religious, they were both prosperous and racially uninvaded.
– There is metaphysical significance in moral self-control (chastity), both on the personal level and on the level of Peoplehood. Our religion bestowed it.
– There is metaphysical effect even from remembering the Divine Power — source of food — at meal time. (An analog to Hindu food-sacrifice rituals.)
One can test these things.
The secret of race-preservation is in religion, or the fruitful connection to the Immutable Power. This idea was part of the basic mind-landscape of our European forefathers and mothers.
Hindus have a number of words for God, and one of them is “Self” with a capital S. (Since God is found within, along with the Kingdom of Heaven as Christ says.) This Upanishad gives the whole and entire secret of race-preservation:
“Whosoever looks for the Brahman-class elsewhere than in the Self, was abandoned by the Brahman-class.
“Whosever looks for the Kshatra-class elsewhere than it the Self, was abandoned by the Kshatra-class.
“Whosoever looks for the worlds elsewhere than in the Self, was abandoned by the worlds.
“Whosoever looks for the Devas (lesser deities) elsewhere than in the Self, was abandoned by the Devas. Whosoever look for the Vedas (scriptures) elsewhere than in the Self, was abandoned by the Vedas. Whosoever looks for the creatures elsewhere than in the Self, was abandoned by the creates. Whosoever looks for anything elsewhere than in the Self, was abandoned by anything.”
This whole and entire secret of race-preservation was known by our Christian forebears. If you substitute the unusual word “Self” with “God,” this Vedic scripture capsulizes what many of them believed and which was a staple of Christian thought: That all protection and prosperity is secured in God.
The moment one even enters a Christian church, thinking reverently or faithfully of the Divine Mystery (as is so easy to do in a church), he is interacting with that “Self” — the Divine Being.
And just imagine. Our people used to do this — seek the Self — every Seventh day. Here just the thought of God alone uplifts, protects, and brings life blessings. And our White ancestors reserved an entire day for it!
No wonder they prospered, uninvaded.
Julian Lee is a very good bullsh*tter. It’s not surprising that he makes his living with a scam like “locational astrology”. You have to be a good talker and liar to get people to believe garbage like that.
http://julianlee.com/services.html
@Franklin Ryckaert:
Yes, Franklin, you are correct. Thanks for listing all those ideas that the ancient Jews stole from Zoroastrianism.
However, you are incorrect about the origin of the word “Pharisee”. The word “perushim” is a 19th century word. It doesn’t have anything to do with the word “Pharisee”.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perushim
@Z.O.G.:
Well, apparently there is disagreement about the origin of the word “Pharisee”. I guess it’s up for debate.
@Z.O.G.:
The Pharisees (Latin pharisæus, -i; from Hebrew פְּרוּשִׁים pĕrûšîm, pl. of פָּרוּשׁ pārûš, meaning “set apart”, Qal passive participle of the verb פָּרָשׁ pārāš,[1][2] through Greek φαρισαῖος, -ου pharisaios[3])…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharisees
A bullshitter is a fellow who presents Christianity as being all about ancient history and the etymology of the word “pharisee,” instead of what it is: Thought of God here-now; search for God here-now. That’s a bit over your head.
I appreciate you promoting my locational astrology consulting service, “Zog.” I would like to have more WN-type and pro-White clients, and this will help. (If you are an activist, I am likely to give them services for free. I give free locational consulting services, for example, to all White South Africans trying to leave South Africa.)
But astrology is a bit over your head too. And though I appreciate your promoting me my work and desire to talk about astrology, it’s not the subject of this thread, big guy.
Julian said:
“most pro-Whites and WN’s who criticize Christianity do so without having made any investigation into it as religious seekers themselves. One should truly study and test a thing before criticizing it. Their attacks usually center on criticism of historical narratives in various ways, not on the results of religious discipline.”
This seems unfair to me, even though I understand your point about discipline. Religion is not just ideas it is practice, cult, ritual, community, experience. Of course. anyways…
I named Revilo Oliver and William Pierce as critics of Christianity. I dont know if you are famliar with their works but you should be. I also have read of the personal religious seekings of one of their friends, William Gayley Simpson, who authored a big work “Which Way Western Man” that you must not be familiar with and it contains a lengthy account of his personal religious searchings. He was not just raised a Presbyterian but he attempted rigorous religious observance. The book is pretty interesting, I dont want to spoil it. http://www.amazon.com/Which-Way-Western-Man/dp/0937944165
it is another excellent work for people to read who are laboring with these questions.
I would also add that atheism is not definitely irreligious. Cha’an Buddhism and Zen are non-theistic, certainly Confucianism is as well. There is a good discussion of the Aryan roots of the Doctrine of Awakening by Julius Evola in his book by that name which addresses the content of early Buddhism and its apparent non-theism and how that relates to the primordial Tradition.
@Julian Curtis Lee:
Lovely, thanks. Try not to allow these poor spiritual autistics get you down. It is like arguing with the color blind about the palette we use.
@Vlad Writes:
They just look at me blankly.
Yes, total incomprehension. The facts you give them literally don’t register. It’s like when you give crime stats or IQ data to liberal Whites. They just kinda stare. People under the influence of a Grand Ideal are very hard to shake. Mere facts don’t seem to change their minds. And they are fearful of seeing those facts – they are afraid they will somehow become a bad person. It’s like Moonies.
I’ll mention Whitaker again, since I’m high on him right now. He mentioned going into a communist country back decades ago when doing something with the CIA, and he was with a hippy leftwing couple. It was immediately obvious how horrible things were, how oppressive, how desperate. Yet, the young hippy couple literally didn’t see it. All the immense data just didn’t register.
It’s incredibly frustrating. All I can say is that blank stare may be the beginning of them questioning their programming.
@Luke: Exactly , all our people have to do is turn away from ‘Commentators’ and programs that deceive , then the market evaporates , no market , no money , no product . So its a matter of waking up our friends and family to the cunning games being played . I often hear people say , ‘So what can I do about it ? . ” The reality is that just by knowing we can take action by ‘non selection’ i.e. don’t’ allow the market to get a dividend from getting you to watch either the propaganda or social sludge called entertainment .
The Elites and the Military Complex that control the Western Governments need to be able to bring the people along (by keeping them misinformed using the MSM) as they wage ‘their’ continual ‘war on terror’ which gives them the excuse to erode and replace democracy with their ‘brave new world’ of invented realities . Invented history and invented sociology , invented psychology and then demand that ‘journalists’ go along with these inventions to maintain social harmony or to change disadvantage .This is like the Corrupt Church before its exposure , full of pedophiles who’s head say ‘Yes we know we’ve not perfect , but we have to protect the reputation of the institution (!) so the evil crimes have to continue , so the Church can do its work ! Please explain ? Is it not the same with the Holyhoax , no one can question it because it serves a more important purpose : to stop genocide , while Zionist wage war in the ME killing and poisoning 10 of millions . The West is becoming tangled in lies .
The number of times I read books on human evolution or see TV docs and the reason that are given for social phenomena e.g. bullying or teenage drinking or evolution for intelligence I can’t believe how much crap is served up as fact , truth or solution by ‘experts’ and ‘specialists’ Or by MSM journalists who have sanitised (or are brainwashed by false theories ) the real reason for the malaise by excluding fathers or immigration or religion or resource competition or affirmative action or the inversion of sex roles (that have a deeper root than just socialisation ) the reason or cause .And then they set about devision a solution ! Social science not .
It is really not possible to run a functioning democratic gov if the experts and journalists are be taught or trained to avoid the unpleasant truth as the PBS always does. And this get at the heart of the dread of the MSM NWO . How and where can the citizens break the circuit when society starts to malfunction ? Look at the US gov intervention in the States immigration laws . They won’t act to protect ‘their’ citizens because (i speculate ) the superrich elites consider themselves citizens of earth , except they forget the sine qua none : they also grew up somewhere went to school and lived in a home , they also have roots and memories of childhood , but these elites delude themselves as adults (between their palaces and yachts ) that such things are unnecessary . They despise the common people who act to protect their territory as stupid animals .This only shows their lack of worldly experience . Obama and Lachlan Murdock are classic examples of what was once describe to me by a military brat as just that , a person who feels like they belong nowhere . Moving from one base to another in childhood . And so it is when the common people see there towns and cities turned into squalid hell holes or begin to feel like strangers in their country and they want it stopped , they are instinctively protection their resources AND their identity : that which is a sane part of being human. But the ignoramuses at the top consider the little people petty and selfish BUT they haven’t examined the roots of there own identity .
@Ex-Pro White Activist: I appreciate the information on Scofield. I am wondering: Have you given up on Pro-White Activism because of defeatism or because you are now a liberal? What should your self-descriptor mean to readers of this blog?
@Alice Teller: Thank you Ms. Teller. Heartfelt and perceptive…and Brilliant too.
@Julian Curtis Lee:
So there’s no need to worship a dead jew or believe any of the stupid stuff that’s in the Bible? Okay, that’s good to know.
@arthurdecco:
You are too kind, it is simply old-fashioned common sense.
The chief difficulty with Christianity in this regard is that the Bible, and especially the New Testament, is not (in my opinion) very clear and strong on the subject of nationalism. It is not anti-nationalist, as I see it, but it does not (as far as I know) come out and plainly state that God is opposed to the dissolution of nations and cultures through planned mixing up the various ethnic population-groups. In other words, it does not state that rampant ethnic confusion is sin.
Or am I mistaken about this?
@Adeimantus:
Oh, you are quite mistaken, Adeimantus. The New Testament explicitly states in four separate passages that race, ethnicity, and sex do not even exist, much less matter:
For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile–the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him,
- Romans 10:12
For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body–whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free–and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.
- 1 Corinthians 12:13
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
- Galatians 3:28
Here there is no Greek or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all.
- Colossians 3:11
@Adeimantus:
It seems to me you could argue a thousand different political policies and say they were consistent with the New Testament. So, I have no idea what the point of referencing it is with regard to saving Whites. No one can ever explain how it would help, except in some vague “if we were better people, somehow, all the Mexicans and blacks and Asians would leave” kind of way, that doesn’t seem likely.
I am NOT against Christianity and religion, but I have no clue why it’s sold as the solution to our race problem. It’s like you take your car into a mechanic and he starts telling you about the book of Matthew. I’m not that I’m disagreeing with the Gospels, I’m just not sure how they are relevant to the massive oil leak I have.
Julian Lee, you’re a sleazy con-artist and you’re 100% full of sh*t.
The only reason you’re even able to make a living from such an obvious scam is because the world is full of idiots.
http://julianlee.com/
@Jason Speaks:
Christianity is a universalist egalitarian religion which says that race and biology do not exist.
So Christianity is an obvious non-starter for any kind of biological world view. Christianity and racial nationalism are mutually contradictory belief systems and cannot be reconciled.
Christianity Exposed
http://christianitydebunked.wordpress.com/
- Christianity is an ascetic religion comparable to modern cults.
- Christianity is a suicidal religion promoting self-destructive ideas.
- Christianity is a nihilistic religion containing anti-social teachings.
- Christianity is a mystery religion opposed to reason and knowledge.
- Christianity is a slavish religion commanding submission to authority.
- Christianity is an egalitarian religion similar to Marxism/Communism.
- Christianity is a syncretic religion mainly derived from Hellenistic Judaism.
Andrea Ostrov Letania: “and to accept evolution, which explains why Jews are smarter than whites”
Exactly! Jews, even the most crazed orthodox amongst them believe in modern science, and especially genetics. While Christians are discussing virgin birth, resurrection and ‘creationism’, Jews combine their religion with modern science. These bearded Chabad Rabbis look like idiots from another planet, but contrary to Evangelicals, they talk about DNA! The practical side of Talmudic philosophy is essentially Darwinism, and that is really what they preach. Undiluted Darwinism, unhampered by Christian ‘morality’. If a Gentile child might grow up to become a danger to Israel, it is allowed to kill it.
Jews although identifying as Jews (which whites think of as a religious concept) have the highest percentage of atheists, but it doesn’t keep them from being Jews.
I don’t think whites should copy the Jewish concept, but find a balance between Christian idealism and universalism and down to earth practical Darwinism.
The essence of Judaism is embracing evil, and no matter how practical this can be in the ways of the world, it also contains the seed of its own destruction.
In my view, Christianity was the logical answer to Jewish evil; hence Christianity became too preoccupied with being “good”.
Now that we have found out that being “too good” is self destructive in the end, we should try to find the right balance, taking care not to become “Jews” ourselves. I think this is partly where National Socialism went wrong. National Socialism more or less copied the Jewish concept, and threw away some basically good Christian values completely, in stead of just balancing those values and accepting the material and Darwinistic side of the coin as well. All this “Master Race” shit, could have been copied straight from the Talmud.
First Posted at 25-04-2012 but didn’t appear. Trying again with different email address (Disqus sucks) and tiny url webaddress.
man zog, talk about completely taking the new testament out of context. that’s almost as bad as the idiot christian zionists taking one sentence from the book of genesis, (you know the one, i will bless those who bless israel and curse those who curse israel.) and completely ignoring the rest of the bible.
ok, i shouldn’t have said almost as bad as that, because thats in a league of it’s own.
but to take those verses of the new testament and try to say its Jesus’ way of saying we should race mix our way into the history books is quite the stretch.
what God has created, who are we to destroy? if God’s creation is perfect, then it seems to me that any scheme to destroy it must come from satan. and those who serve him, wittingly or not.
God didn’t make us all seperate races in order for us to decide we know better. seperate but equal.
as christians it is our duty to love african christians, and phiilipino christians, and so on. but in their lands, not ours. he told us to spread the gospel to all the four corners of the earth, not to open up our borders and let all the four corners of the earth come to us.
There are two issues that surface for me.
One problem I have is the Calvinist strain of theology which has been used as an anti-race philosophy. For example, Fred Phelps, the Calvinist pastor of the Westboro Baptist Church was a HUGE advocate, as an active lawyer, of the anti-White cause. To the Calvinist, there are only two kinds of human beings, the “elect” and the “reprobates.” Race, apparently, counts for nothing. The Phelps family are proud of their role in undermining White America.
The other — and something I find disgustingly hypocritical — are the Jewish new reporters who confront Whites and rail against the fact that their church congregations are “all white” — which is rare these days. I have seen this on television and can direct people to You Tube videos in which self-identified Jews make these accusations. These openly Jewish reporters accuse Christian churches of “racism” when this is about religion — which ought to be a private matter of conscience. Besides, are the synagogues well known for practicing racial mixing within their own congregations? ANGRY! am I over this blatant and openly hostile anti-White hypocrisy of the Jews.
Here you have an openly Jewish reporter mocking and rebuking the Westboro Baptist Church (whose beliefs I do NOT agree with, by the way) for having an “all White” congregation. [Actually, this church does welcome non-Whites into its congregation, as shown in another video documentary, should they be as radical as the other believers.] This reporter angers me greatly on account of his hateful and evil hypocrisy.
[Jewish] Reporter Mocks and Angers Westboro Baptist Church in Virginia
I am angry at that Jew for his racial remark, despite the fact that I have no particular sympathy for the Westboro cult. I think that they are not entirely in their right senses.
yeah adeimantus, the guy is definitely an annoying individual. were not supposed to kill, but i don’t think it says not to pimp slap, and he has one coming.
sometimes i think those westboro people are intentionally trying to make christians look bad. but maybe they’re just idiots.
@Z.O.G.: You are misinterpreting those verses. It doesn’t contravene sex roles, nor say we have to mix races. It acknowledges the differences that exist, & doesn’t say that have to end. It means that everyone can be saved, regardless of their origins, you hard headed crank. Did you know that and are trying to confuse and intentionally deceive your readers?
So much hysterical ignorance in that one line.
Asceticism is not feared by White men, is the basic lifestyle of warriors, and the province of men. It is also a technique basic to the Arian-developed yoga of India described in the Upanishads. If anything, Christianity is weak now because it’s ascetic impulse is weak.
Cults are where cult-ture has always been cult-ivated. The government wants to have a great many of its own cults (secret groups, black ops, etc.) but doesn’t want the people to have any. The word “cult” never had a definite negative connotation until the 1970s and media propaganda (Jim Jones, etc.) Ignoramuses and dishonest people use the word “cult” disparagingly.
Now I have no doubt. “Zog” is a Jew. As if his own user name doesn’t give it away.
Whoever attacks the White European religious heritage is an attacker of the White European peoples.
@Z.O.G.: Even though I don’t believe in the scientific validity of what Julian Lee is doing, the fact he believes it and will give refunds means he is not a con man. However, you are ironically promoting him well, and if you are against him, he must be doing something right!
The guru is ever alive. The wise get bliss from religion and the guru, which is a worshipful feeling. May you never know the feeling of worship or what brings that attitude; the feeling is too good for you.
One should apply his intelligence to religion, and derive from it fruit here-now. Without effort here-now there is no religious knowledge. An intelligent man should discard what is of little worth. But an intelligent man does not attack the vast, magnificent, and multifarious heritage of Christianity whole.
Clearly religion is over your head.
You are dead.
You people cannot possibly be THAT stupid. The decline of Christianity here and in Europe signaled the decline of our sphere of influence, and the Jews were behind this event. The 60′s marked the shift of power. We once had an almost non-existent divorce rate, high investment parenting, no abortion, etc.etc.etc.
This is OBVIOUS stuff!!!!!
As our morality declined, and we allowed feminism and abortion and contraception and massive immigration and pornography…we lost our will and we lost our way. Our religion was our moral infrastructure; as it crumbled so goes the country at large.
We need to pick our battles wisely. I believe that
Jared Taylor is absolutely right, we MUST stop immigration. This is the most important issue of all at this moment in time. We have every right to defend our land from invaders.
@chad: I agree with you, we are not commanded to bring the people back that God cast asunder at the tower of babel. God separated us, we are merely required to be nice to them, not harm them, not race mix with them.
@Vlad Writes: roger that.
@Nathan Winslow:
“You people can not posibly be THAT stupid”
You are correct…we are NOT that stupid. We only seem stupid because we don’t see social degeneration through a religious lens.
While it is true that society has gone to hell in a hand basket since most people reinterpreted their religion to fit the times. It was the times that caused the change in religion, and not the other way around.
The economy “stupid”….. Religions grow in response to the economy…Economies don’t follow religions. Thus you have Christians refered to as sheep and jesus as the good shepard because sheepherding was the dominant economy in that time and place. People in ancient egypt worshipped the Sun Because their lives along the Nile was all about growing crops. American Indians worshipped the animals because they were hunters. etc.
What really happend to cause Christians to re-package their faith to make it compatible with “equality” was the economy forced women into the (male) workforce. In other words, technology obliterated the traditional roles/identities of men and women to better serve Big Brother. Religion as it stood was in the way. so it had to be changed, reinterpreted, or abandoned altogether.
People interpret “scripture” in ways that justify their behaviour. Thus, you have Christians howling for the blood of Osama Bin Ladin, and Muslims Howling for the blood of “The Great Satan”
If tomorow Christians were reduced to stealing to survive, tomorow night they will have found a scripture that supports stealing.
It is the same with the “Constitution” it says whatever people WANT it to say.
People don’t starve for lack of religion, the starve for lack of FOOD!
How do y’all explain this old Jewish guy stealing from Jewish Hollywood to give to our mostly non-Jewish troops? Isn’t he genetically programmed to hate Christians? http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/27/nyregion/at-92-movie-bootlegger-is-soldiers-hero.html?_r=1&hp
@Hmmm:
Sending free films to soldiers on the battlefield boosts their morale to fight wars. You have to ask yourself for whom those wars are fought.
Iraq : to neutralize an enemy of Israel (= Jewish interest).
Afghanistan : to restart the multi-billion opium trade, whose money ends up at New York banks (= Jewish interest).
So 92-years-old Hymie in New York still works for Jewish interests, only he has different priorities. Talk about genetic programming!
Christianity can create a wonderful society in which to live, but everyone has to be practicing its tenants in order for it to succeed. The Puritans wouldn’t hesitate to kick out anyone taking advantage of the community. Too many wolves were let into the sheepfold and Christianity has become synoymous with “sucker.”
Part of the problem is that American Evangelicals only consider other American-style Protestant Evangelicals to be “true Christians.” So they could care less what happens to Christians in the Middle East.
@Hmmm: Hey genius, he is supporting the Israel war of genocide on the Muslims, fought by the white soldiers of America, so it fits his genetic programming. Non-Jewish whites die fighting for Israel – how could he even object, and the jews in Hollywood don’t appear to be pressing charges.
@ATBOTL: Wrong, we care about Christians around the world, hence we send missionaries, and what they really want, filthy lucre. In my opinion, our missionary aid should be 90% here in the US, because lots of unbelievers are here, but when you drive up in a Range Rover and bring gifts to the chief of obangomango, he welcomes you and makes you feel good, and many of his people “convert”. Missionary work in the US is very hard.
I don’t think I’ve converted even friendly types like Jason or Luke (named by his parents after the great evangelist and physician?), who are my brothers on most issues of white nationalism, much less guys like ZOG. It is more productive to give a couple thousand dollars to a church in Latin America and be treated like Saul (Paul) of Tarsus.
Some people are very sincere and devote their lives to foreign missions. If you have ever been to the Caribbean, you see lots of old churches, not that many people on the islands make use of the resources appropriately, but some do. Only God knows who and he isn’t telling me.
When someone talks about the nefarious influences of Christianity, there is always an opponent to bring up several examples supposed to show it’s not true. For example, if you talk about Christianity praising asceticism, poverty and powerlessness, the usual counter-example is America itself, a Christian country which has always been obsessed with wealth, or so and so chief of State or billionaire who became what they were in spite of their (alleged) faith.
What they do not understand is that Christianity was severely Hellenized along the course of its contact with the European world, and its most suicidal teachings were untaught, ignored, repressed and reinterpreted, either by the Church itself, or its followers.
Raw, unmoderated Christianity, taken in the literal sense (which is the way early Christians took it and how it took hold in Ancient Rome), is the stuff of nightmares, a handbook for slaves and powerless humans desiring to feel better about their situation without correcting it.
A Christian traditionalist once admitted in front of me that if the Gospels were taken literally, and all its teachings were thoroughly respected, all Western countries would collapse into disintegration and poverty in a few months.
Which brings one question: is it not better to have a religion that does not leave any room for reinterpretation? One that does not leave people full of doubts about what to do?
@Z.O.G.:
You are a smart guy Zoggy, I’m surprised that you don’t realize those are anti-Zionist statements.
@Nathan Winslow:
Jared Taylor is a Jew tool. AmRen is a Jewish controlled opposition organization.
@Panina:
Good post, Panina. Anyone can see simply by reading the New Testament that Christianity is a destructive and subversive Jewish intellectual movement.
@Franklin Ryckaert:
THANK YOU
Until fairly recently Vatican was running interference for a worldwide underage boy buggering ring through paying out hush money; reshuffling homosexual pedophile priests between dioceses, and generally putting up a façade as though everything was hunky dory.
I reckon this must be one of those myriad instances recorded in the past 2 millenia when the moral compass which had been graciously passed over – pardon the pun – to our then pagan ancestors by the traveling Hebraic fabulists Peter and Paul just happened to give an erroneous reading.
@Jarvis Dingle-Daden:
Well pedophilia wasn’t alien to our glorious pagan ancestors either. In fact it was quite common in ancient Greece and also in Rome in its latter days. Like it or not but it was mainly due to the “travelling Hebraic fabulists Peter and Paul” that the decadent classical world developed a descent sexual morale and strong family values. I doubt whether faith in a lascivious Zeus or in the primitive gods of the Celts, Germans or Slavs could have inspired to such a development.
@Franklin Ryckaert:
Correction : “descent” should be “decent”.
@Franklin Ryckaert:
Pure Jewish propaganda. The Jews love promoting the idea that Christianity is the foundation of Western Civilization, i.e. the idea that Europeans were stupid savages until they were “enlightened” by the Yahweh mystery cult.
@Tom:
They’re also radical egalitarian biology-denying statements that perfectly complement the cultural Marxist world view.
The piss-stream media have spent decades manufacturing a highly unflattering image of ancient Romans as out-of-control hedonistic, gluttonous, degenerate perverts terribly lacking in self-control and ready to hump anything that so much as twitched.
(Not exactly surprising as the severe case of butthurt inflicted by Romans on you-know-who appears to resonate to this day.)
Who, but for the ‘gift’ of Christian ethic, would probably have drowned in a puddle of their own vomit and feces @ some point.
Though later we learn (from Juden frei sources) that Roman women used – gulp – to cover up not just their bottoms, but their busts too prior to entering a public pool.
As evidenced by Italian archeologists who recently unearthed an ancient villa whose huge mosaic wall had captured the typical day of individuals occupying that respective social strata.
So-called Judeo Christianity is a recent concoction, of the Jews, as they takeover the Chritian churches. Jews have promoted every non-Chritian movment in the century, they promote homosexuality, pedophila, drug lifestyles, and everything that is anti-thetical to Christian living and yet some people continue to think of Christianity as Judaism.
In group charity and compassion made Christian communities strong. This never had anything to do with uncontrolled immigration; a later misinterpretation.
One hook the Jews did get into Christianity was through manipulating the sense of guilt. That seems to be the weak point.
@Diana: @Diana:
The “weak point” IS Christianity itself…Its all about guilt, sin, etc. It has been used to make kids feel ashamed and afraid for centuries (in many families, not all)….
Ed Gein’s mom was a Christian
@Z.O.G.:
Christianity is not the only foundation of Western civilization but surely it is an important part of it. We cannot ignore 2000 years of history. Whether it was all positive is a moot point.
Europeans outside the Roman Empire were indeed not “stupid savages” but surely they were barbarians and they became civilized by a combination of Roman and Christian culture.
Christianity started as a Jewish sect but became deeply hellenized. It is therefore an exaggeration to talk about a Jewish “enlightenment” of European culture.
The replacement of Christianity by a new metaphysical orientation would require centuries. We don’t have that much time. So in WN we should rather concentrate on political and meta-political matters.
When one rejects 20 centuries of his own ancestors’ religion, one suspects he has little connection to those ancestors. Most critics of Christianity have never investigated the truth in it. Most of them probably had little experience even going to church. Going to Sunday church was the core of Christian life, and on the most minimalist side united Whites socially, from birth to death, and put them in regular interaction with each other under the umbrella of divine ideals. These attackers of Christianity seem to have a spurious relationship with both Christianity and the White European grandfathers and grandmothers. In fact, it’s a typical technique of Jew-trolls to say to White activists: “Your Christianity is nothing but Judaism,” which is an absurd statement.
@Julian Curtis Lee:
You make a good champion, thanks. I have less problem with those who reject Christianity than with those who express hatred and contempt for it based on ignorance. If Christianity was nothing but Judaism, why is it that Jews only flourished after we emancipated them from the dark, ugly, superstitious ghettos that they themselves created. Jews were emancipated from rabbinic control of their lives.
@Henry Baxley:
Any thing can be distorted. I grew up as a Christian and I was loved and cherished. You have been sadly misinformed.
@Luke: This explain the Europe bash.
Unfortunately, it seems that the Yahweh mystery cult still has many adherents among so-called “pro-White” individuals.
It’s telling that Christianity is promoted by scamming con-artists like “Julian Lee”. Religion and con-artists go together like a horse and carriage.
@Alice Teller:
OK Alice, you win, Just don’t drink any kool-aid
i understand that most of the atheists attacking christians here don’t like to admit that they have been brainwashed over the course of their lives by the television sitting in their living rooms, but it doesn’t make it any less true.
i find it hard to believe though that after 2,000 years of the most remarkable achievments in human history coming from a thoroughly christian race, people could say that christianity is a religion of slaves and worse. this is repeated over and over despite all the evidence to the contrary.
now we have good ol’ henry baxley coming out and saying that christianity is bad because it teaches children that there is a difference between right and wrong, sin and righteousness.
this is some seriously convoluted logic in my opinion. if a human being, adult or child commits an evil act, he most definitely SHOULD feel guity. if a person doesn’t feel guilt for evil acts, he is down right sociopathic.
and last of all henry uses as proof that christianity is the problem because, get this,” Ed Gein’s mom was a Christian!”
what the? ed gein’s mama? who the flip is that? sure i could go google it, read the wiki and then come back here and pretend like i know like other people are fond of doing on the internet, but that’s just not my style. i’ll leave that to people like, ahem…random.
here are some things i do know, george washington, constantine, christopher columbus, queen isabella, shakespeare, thomas aquinas, and millions of others of the greatest men and women of the white race were devoted followers of Christ. so i choose to ride with them.
you atheists can choose to ride with the communists, or the wiccans, or the antler wearing, horn blowing, naked dancing fire jumpers, or my good friend z.i.p.p.i.t.y. d.o.o. d.a.h. z.i.p.p.i.t.y. a.y.e. or whatever.
God gave us all free will after all so you guys are free to believe whatever you want, but why you choose to so relentlessly attack those of us who love Christ, i’ll never understand. if the southern poverty law center or any of the other talmudic jewish folks wanted to divide and conquer their opposition, they couldn’t do a better job than you guys are doing. congratulations!
@fender:
Look, it’s this simple: you may not have abandoned Christianity, but Christianity has abandoned you.
That is the truth, whether we Christians like it or not. The flaw of Christianity in mho is, and I think Alice Teller made a point of her understanding a awhile back, saying that Christianity is not interested in a collective group salvation, but on the basis of the individual. But it should not end there, and if it does not provide for a group cohersion and survival as a group as it does for Jews, then yes, any advanced or higher educated Christian who bring in reason and intellect will be abondoned by the Church, because it requires blind following the Leaders (who are often enough not in Christ or of wisdom) They get labled as an heretic just on the sheer fact that they are not understood. There are enough examples in Christianities History. An entire overhaul is due.
a “christian race”?
@chad:
I am not an atheist, I just don’t believe little babies are Guilty of anything. furthermore, I don’t believe man is intrinsically, instinctively evil. The natural man who has not been taught to be evil will not harm another human, or animal for that matter.
God is Nature imo. The egotheistc religions of men are twisted interpretations of Natures laws.
FYI Ed Gein was the real life monster the movie “Silence of the lambs” was based on. except the real Ed Gein was also a ghoul.
I am not opposed to Christians at all, I just think they are ignorant of the laws of Nature. Programmed from birth to believe fantastic, magical stuff Brainwashed.
@Julian Curtis Lee: @Julian Curtis Lee:
Julien, I really appreciate you being in touch with your European ancestors mentally. It is something I found lacking here in the US among people, probably due to two WW’s. I suppose my birth-connection, no matter what nationality I hold now, pre-dates ties that are not so easily destructible. The cord is three-fold which Jews are knowledgeable enough to want to destroy and cut for every Gentile. The earth and ground you were born to, the National Character of the People in which one grew up, and the Religion and moral character that the Nation upholds. You destroy any one of those pillars, as Jews have only held one of them for 2000 years and now having made their way to a literal Nation, you’ve weaken and paved the path for decline, alienation and general decay of a society and people. Of course we know their methods of achieving this. I came across a poem written by Rolf Schilling, and kind of says how I feel, and perhaps others may be able to relate.
Rolf Schilling Essay: »Geheimes Deutschland«
Rolf Schilling writes in his essay “Secret Germany” about Germans: “We have no capitol and no sacred or eternal city like Rome, Paris, Jerusalem…And if we do not have our Golden City, then perhaps that is because our place is elsewhere : in the open, in all around us, the roots and tops of the the holy trees, springs and hills, because the umbilical cord, which connects us with the Great Mother never tore. “
@TabuLa Raza:
The Armenians where the first Christian race/Nation and got slaughtered by the Muslims if I remember my old History Book. A very prosperous people for their times.
Typical Baptist preacher who is both anti-Catholic AND pro-miscegenation. You need listen to only the first two or three minutes to hear his emphatic endorsement of inter-racial marriages:
Anti-Catholic Baptist Preacher Endorses Interracial Marriage
And Organized Jewry is afraid of these people? Most likely, this same preacher would NEVER breathe a word against Judaism!
When I was an Evangelical Christian, I was taught to believe that only “born again” Evangelicals were real Christians. Arab Christians, or anyone else for that matter, were considered to be “cultural Christians” in need of saving. Attitudes like this are widespread among American Evangelicals, especially the more devotes ones.
Important observations: Peoplehood/genetic heritage; nation, and religion.
These have been the locus of Peoplehood for us. So think about it: Nationhood was a part of our Peoplehood, but Jews have learned to be and remain a People sans-nation. So what have they done? Attacked nation and the concept of nation — including opening up borders to all and sundry.
Then religion was also a locus of our peoplehood. Scriptural content or metaphysical debates don’t even matter here, but the simple fact that White Europeans were united under some common religious ideas. The simple fact of weekly church attendance alone was a centuried glue of “community” for us. (Even the simple gathering together bodily, seeing each other, knowing each other. Never mind the significances imbued into cradle-to-grave life events like birth, marriage, and death which religion imparted.) So what do the Jews do? Attack our religion on all fronts. Mock it. Discredit it. Make our young embarrassed about it. It matters not if the various varieties of Christianity (and their doctrines) were explicitly propounded to protect us racially. The fact is our religion did FUNCTION in that way for us. In reality, man makes religion according to his own image and instincts. (How much of Jesus’ sayings are actually ignored by us!) Certainly the White Europeans did that with Christianity! Made it serve them. Religion was part of our Peoplehood locus.
With the media-wide promotion of racial mixing they are now breaking through the final natural bulwark of racial locus: Breaking down natural psychological aversions that once made race-mixing unattractive, plus loading it with psychological inducements. (“Being progressive,” etc.) Even discrediting the very idea of Peoplehood (genes, race) while they credit it for themselves. We were vulnerable here because their own religion has racial/blood content and Christianity lacked it. The genetic/racial component of our Peoplehood-locus was simply the fruit of time and nature. A people long together felt it completely natural to be with their own.
So yeah, they’ve been attacking all three. We needed nation/geography, plus religion, to keep our genotype and ethnicity. With nationhood and religion breached, it’s as if the walls of the racial locus-castle are down and they are attacking the very flesh inside.
Thus: Affirm peoplehood, affirm nation, affirm religion, and affirm the beauty and naturalness of race and ethnicity.
It is for these reasons that I have a cynical view of “pro-White” ciphers who go about attacking Christianity. (Especially never having even tried it themselves or even grown up going to church — where the Sublime that Christianity references is experience.) Because the value of Christian religion as important sections of our racial locus — is obvious to me. Why would they not see this? Rejecting the thoughts and values of 20 centuries of a race’s ancestors — well enshrined in Christianity — is a bit passing strange for an advocate of that race.
As in the past, Christians must simply bring out different fruit from Christianity which serves them. Racial endurance rationales can be found simply in Christ’s statements bearing on naturalness. Or on his manifested aloofness to ethnic peoples different from Him. Or to the Genesis treatment of the “kinds” created by God. Or by firmly connecting Christ’s dharma to the Vedas and Upanishads. Easy to do, and they explicitly enjoin racial preservation.
Oh, to see a White woman in church, singing, beaming, and enjoying her natural racial community. How many centuries it’s been seen. It resonates with so many of her grandmothers. And families there with their children. These moments and scenes — the community fostering power of the Divine Mystery — are for me the full flowering of Whiteness. And how much our ancestors did enjoy these moments sand these scenes. We don’t even comprehend.
Boy! Having plowed through this and getting utterly lost in the minutia, hair-splitting and name-calling, I realized that White Nationalists are never going to get anywhere. At least not in any religious form, or vehicle. “Christian Zionists”? Supposedly it’s an achievement of sorts to “dupe” them? Wow! Did any of you see the pathetic spectacle aired on 60 Minutes a few years ago? It showed some hyper-religious Christian evangelical morons, replete with the long curled locks of Orthodox Jews, dancing around a campfire in Israel, celebrating Israel and displaying a hyper-Zionist frenzy rarely seen in Israel. Born a Christian, I have never been more proud of being an atheist! How could anyone with a room-temperature IQ feel anything but scorn for these sheep? Israelis must have been embarrassed and astonished at this group’s stupidity. Duping them must be as hard as breathing fresh sea-air.
For any form of white-conscious movement to take hold, it must do two things:
First, it must divest itself of even the least scintilla of religion. Throughout history, religion has served primarily (intentionally or not) to divide and enrage people. It is responisible for bloodshed on a scale rarely equalled. It is also responsible for the greates art and architecture the world has seen. Let’s leave its achievements at that.
Second, the white-consciousness movement should be unblushing and extremely determined to extol the colossal and unmatched virtuosity and achievements of the western European whites. Period.
Consider this anomoly: the White Power people and many others cling to Nazism as a model. That’s a true howler. Here are purported “conservatives” who loath every liberal thing, and yet they adhere to the most extreme State Socialist dogma. The last time I checked, state SOCIALISM, belonged, as does any other form of this lamentable and poisonous creed, to the political LEFT.
Finally the old adage about the Jews was that to start an intense political argument, all you needed was two Jews. Then I read this thread. Has anyone noted that Israel, being an ethnocracy and an apartheid one at that is, in fact, the model of a white separatist state? Nazism and socialism are creeds dedicated to the utter stultification of the individual. Israel defies its enemies without being a totalitarian state. I for one will NEVER adhere to any socialist group, no matter how they claim to be “conservative”. The fact that they do just that merely outlines their lack of historic erudition.
This culture-war is a war for the minds of commoners. Not elitist nit-pickers. Let’s for the sake of western culture and all its benefits, think pragmatically. Let’s not argue how many angels will fit on the head of a pin. We can win this critical war only by grasping control of at least some forms of the media. We already have talk radio. How about some Indy movie production houses? They are critical for the production of more “Red Dawns”.
Then, add some clarity to our futuristic novels. Not some byzantine plot-within-a-plot tome, but something like Rand’s “Anthem”. Maybe even a movie of “Anthem”! How else would you reach children? And it is the children we must reach. We must show counter-examples to the virtues of western civilization. It’s a shame upon our brows that that Likudite rag, the New York Post, leads the nation in displaying the vile, drug-laced activities, the governmentally-subsidized savagery of those pampered illegitimi—the urban blacks…..If we extol white achievement, we must balance it with vivid counterexamples…..
Time for some intense pressure on the liberal MSM to show the truth. There is a crying need and even a public lust for this. Did you ever see the full dimension of the response to that old white Vietnam vet’s defensive beating of a black youth who taunted and attacked him on a California bus? It was oceanic and palpable. How many near-fatal beatings of white oldsters followed Trayvon’s death?
Time to unabashedly parade before credulous young eyes, the astonishing variety and excellence of Western art–in all its forms—and conversely, the utter execrability of other culture’s burnt offerings. Unabashedly—without cringing guilt. Surely, such things as “Red dawn”, “The 300″ and “Braveheart” are a good start—but we need a long run of similar icons. Let’s start with a 100 minute Indy of “Anthem” and leave no doubt who the oppressors are.
In the meantime, stop splitting hairs and let’s get something done!
@Fred:
A pro white film production company would be Big Brothers worst nightmare.
@Julian Curtis Lee:
I remember these moments of your last paragraph were we breathed and lived our inborn heritage out to the fullest. These are childhood memories, with no race wars, antagonisms, and full of innocence in a society/world that was still “whole” . Then came the sixties in the US for me, and it was all over. Culture wars ever since then, a war were only a people grounded in deep roots can survive, as the wars get nastier from year to year. Most are just waking up to what is happening, and “community “will make this survival necessary. I guess each of us can chose their community. I still will choose Christianity, it is a mental and intellectual heritage of my past, that keeps me aware and questioning. Interesting too that Germany has a Pastor/Minister for President now. Maybe he can make a difference, in the way Christianity has been attacked there, as it is a part rooted in the German people. The US, my adopted country is a different story. The attackers are within the Christian Circles and working against themselves, killing their own. How do you bring reason to such a group of Brothers? Maybe there too, some will die out as will many other none-faith whites. I am confident that there will always be remnant of Christianities eternal light, no matter what shape or form it will have to take to survive in the future.
@Julian Curtis Lee:
The writers are certainly rabid Zionists who
indulge their audience with conservative, anti-Obama,
Christian views except where it concerns Zionism.
Then they’re as neocon as any foaming-at-the-mouth
Jew Supremacist. Loved their article entitled “Are
Iranian terror cells roaming your neighborhood?”
WND must think these Zionist Christians are the
dumbest goyim.
@gary:
Christian Zionists are real Christians. People who are racist and anti-Semitic are not true Christians, nor can they ever be.
How does it feel to be a hell-bound heretic?
A few weeks ago the Los Angeles Jewish Journal had as its lead article yet another diatribe on the dangers of Christian fundamentalism. It was on the cover as well.
That zionist rag is dumped in every coffee shop, throwaway paper rack, library, community center, etc etc in my neighborhood. Next week’s issue had something about how the Pope could have prevented the so called holocaust by simply ordering Hitler not to be so mean to the Jews.
One thing I have noticed about jews. Whether they are Franch rabbis joining with islamic mullahs to protest the French public school dress code or American jews madly defending islamic radicals here at home, their first and foremost enemy is Christianity and the White peoples whose civilization is the product of 2,000 years of Christian civilization.
Henry Baxley.
Hitler was not elected to any office. That is a Jewish propaganda lie believed by many. Hindenburg was elected President. According to the constitution and long standing custom in pre Republican German states the head of state, whether a monarch or an elected President
appointed a Chancellor in English a Prime Minister.
A year after the 1932 election under enormous pressures from the anti communist industrialists President Hindenburg appointed Adolph Hitler Chancellor.
By January 1934 Hitler and his party had taken complete power in Germany. The Nazi party never actually elected any more than a few state and national legislators, mayors and city councilmen.
I know a lot of Jews. One of their lies is that “the Germans elected Hitler”. I always enjoy telling them the truth, that the nazis were never more than a fringe party. I believe that in the 1932 presidential election they came in 5th.
The 2 major parties got about 90 percent of the vote. The 3 minor parties including the nazis shared the other 10 percent.
The Hitler was elected nonsense shows how Jewish lies and propaganda permeate everything.
@mari: Mari, your’e absolutley correct. People like Franz von Papen, thought they could outsmart Hitler, and he screwed up in underestimating him.
@mari:
Whats your point?
@Adeimantus:
That’s an interesting video. As far as miscegenation, the Roman Catholics invented it. You only have to look to Central & South America, Spain, Portugal & southern Italy & Siciliy to see it. LOL.
Good point. Now, in North America, the Baptists and other evangelicals have caught up, if not surpassed, the Catholics in inter-racial marriages in their churches.
@Sick of the holocaust:
Cause thats where their power is. They are protecting their block. The question though is why would Westerners have a problem with Jews trying to protect their block if they gave them such powers in the first place.
People can’t climb your back unless you bend over.
“The very name Jesus was for Jews a symbol of all that is abominable, and this popular tradition still persists. The Gospels are equally detested, and they are not allowed to be quoted, let alone taught, even in modern Israeli Jewish schools,” wrote late professor Israel Shahak.
Bob Simon reports the plight of Christians under Jewish Israeli rule at CBS News 60 MINUTES (watch video below). Israeli ambassador in Washington, Jewish supremacist Michael Oren, tried to bully CBS to kill the 12-minutes segment related to religious bigotry and social discrimination of native Palestinian Christian forcing them to leave Israel.
On April 1, 1978, former Jewish terrorist Menachem Begin, as prime minister of the Zionist entity, declared preaching Christianity to Jews in Israel a crime punishable with five years’ imprisonment and three years’ imprisonment for any Jew who converted. So much so, even if a Christian give a Gospel leaflet to Israeli Jew, he violate the law.
The hatred of western Zionist Jews toward Christianity can be judged by Knesset member Binyamin Halevy, who called Christian missionaries “a cancer in the body of the nation“. In 1979, Gen. Yehoshaphat Harkabi admitted that Israel’s Chaief Rabbi Ovadiah Yosef had issued a ruling that copies of the New Testament should be burned.
Dr. Issa Nakhleh, a native Palestinian Christian lawyer and diplomat – in his book ‘Encyclopedia of the Palestinian Problem’ has documented dozens of attacks against Christians, Christian holy places, and Christian rights in Israel.
After occupying East Jerusalem in June, 1967, Jewish soldiers opened the church of the Holy Sepulchre to Jewish visitors. Indecently dressed Jewish visitors entered the church joking and pouring Talmudic hate and insults against Jesus, his mother Mary and Christians in general next to the tomb of Jesus Christ.
In 1948, armed Jewish terrorists got vacated Christian villages of Iqrit and Bir’im in the Galilee by killing and expelling the inhabitants.
Donald Neff, former Time Magazine Bureau Chief in Israel, in his latest article, titled Christian in Israel Suffer Prejudice from Jewish Bigots has detailed the plight of Christian minority in the ‘only democracy in the Middle East’.
I wonder what the Guardians of Christianity against Islam, such as, Pope Benedict XVI, ArchBishop of Canterbury, Rev. John Hagee, Rev. Pat Robertson, Holy Qur’an burning Pastor Terry Jones and Barack Obama have to say to help their Christian brothers in dire need?
And finally, in order to save their souls, US evangelical Christian Zionists provide free labour to illegal Jewish settlers in the West Bank.
@Tom:
The New Testament says that race and ethnicity don’t exist.
Good luck with your Jewish written holy book.
@Sick of the holocaust:
Nope. Jews’ first and foremost enemy is White Europeans whose civilization is the product of 10,000 years of evolutionary biology.
I don’t recall seeing that statement.
Those wishes are a little late.
White Europeans have already had spectacular luck with it — for the past 20 centuries.