Legacy: A Genetic History of the Jewish People
Harry Ostrer
Oxford University Press: 2012
288pp., $24.95
Are Jews a religion or race?
This is the age-old question that medical geneticist Harry Ostrer tackles in his concise but informative book, Legacy: A Genetic History of the Jewish People.
As Professor of Pathology and Genetics at Albert Einstein College of Medicine of Yeshiva University and Director of Genetic and Genomic Testing at Montefiore Medical Center, as well as former Director of the Human Genetics Program at New York University’s School of Medicine, Ostrer has devoted much of his career to unraveling the DNA sequencing of recessive genetic disorders common among Jews, such as Tay-Sachs and Gaucher disease. After two decades of medical research, he explains that Jews share more than religious and cultural traditions — a common biological bond links Jews throughout the Diaspora.
This body of work has led Ostrer to conclude that Jews are genetically related worldwide. Three millennia of selective breeding have created a distinct population with unique racial characteristics. Within this broad isolated population, diverse ethnic tribes formed and branched out. Mutual genes serve as the ancestral linkage between major Jewish tribes: Ashkenazi (who are related to one another on average as fifth cousins), Sephardic, Eurasian Khazars, Middle Eastern, and Mizrahi or African Jews.
Legacy is a slim book that incorporates history, natural selection, population genetics, evolutionary psychology, and contemporary medical findings. The author’s quest for the basis of Jewish origins and identity forms the basic storyline of Legacy. Each chapter highlights various aspects of Jewish ancestry: physical measurements and characteristics, DNA studies, blood groupings, genealogical evidence, tribal lineage, physical and psychological traits, and, finally, the crux of Jewish identity. The result is an informative overview of 25 years of detective work unraveling the genetic kinship of Jews.
Ostrer reviews the work of early Jewish pioneers who were at the forefront of pinpointing the biological origins of Jews. Maurice Fishberg, a Russian Jew who settled in New York in 1889, was a physician and anthropologist who studied Jewish physical traits. Fishberg, according to Ostrer, found that Jews had a darker pigmentation than Gentiles, but rejected the idea that Jews constituted a distinct race. He put forth his theories in, Physical Anthropology of the Jews (1902) and Jews: A Study of Race and Environment (1911). Ostrer notes,
Fishberg, nonetheless, perceived the presence of a Jewish physiognomy, or look, and filled his book with photos of Jews from all over the world, who, to his eye, resembled one another. As he said, “One can pick out a Jew from among a thousand non-Jews without difficulty.”
Unlike Fishberg, Joseph Jacobs — a prominent physical anthropologist, editor of the Jewish Encyclopedia, and contributor to the Encyclopædia Britannica — was a “proponent of the view that Jews constituted a single race.” Jacobs argued, “The remarkable unity of resemblance among Jews, even in different climes, seems to imply a common descent.”
Ostrer explains how technological advances in genomics allow researchers to tease out population differences and migration patterns to the degree that it is possible to identify genetic subclusters in diverse populations. Research developments in the past decade have boosted the Jewish HapMap Project, the major research endeavor the author has spearheaded with his colleagues.
Luigi Luca Cavalli-Sforza and other geneticists developed and refined “analytical methods that would quantify the differences between populations.” Researchers have applied two statistical methods — genetic distances and dendritic trees — in analyzing combined genetic data. The greater the genetic distances for any population, the more disparate the population. Further genomic advances have enabled researchers to identify more detailed sources of genetic variation, namely copy number variants (CNVs) and single nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs), which track “variations in the number of copies of a gene or a DNA sequence along a chromosome.” In utilizing these new research tools, geneticists have been able to trace the degree of genetic similarity across different Jewish groups in areas where the populations are genetically heterogeneous. Ostrer points out,
The Jewish HapMap Project demonstrated in exquisite detail what had been conjectured for a century. Jewish populations from the major Jewish Diaspora groups — Ashkenazi, Sephardic, and Mizrahi — form a distinctive population cluster that is closely related to Semitic and European populations (figure 4.4). Within this larger Jewish cluster, each of the Jewish populations formed its own subcluster. Each group demonstrated Semitic ancestry and had variable degrees of admixture with European populations.
In his concluding chapter on Jewish “Identity,” Ostrer summarizes the central point of his work:
The evidence for biological Jewishness has become incontrovertible. The answer to Jacobs’ 1899 question, “Are Jews Jews?” would seem to be an emphatic yes. As noted earlier, a study by Goldstein and his coworkers demonstrated that it was possible to predict full Ashkenazi Jewish ancestry accurately and with a somewhat lesser degree of certainty for people with one, two, or three Jewish grandparents. The Jewish HapMap Project has extended these findings to people who come from virtually all other Jewish groups, each group representing a genetic cluster that can be defined as a predominant pattern of inheritance that includes a large number of genetic markers. The findings are based on the fact that segments of the genome tend to be shared at a higher frequency among members of different Jewish groups. This degree of shared genetic segments is greater among Jews than between Jews and non-Jews. So Jewishness at a genetic level can be characterized as a tapestry with the threads represented as shared segments of DNA and no single thread required for composition of the tapestry.
The fate of the Khazars — a semi-nomadic people of Central Asian Turkic origin in the area of Southern Russia, which was ruled by a succession of Jewish kings from essentially the eighth to the eleventh century — “has been the subject of much speculation,” as Ostrer notes, not to mention a source of contention among Jewish scholars. Jewish Historian Abram Leon Sachar notes, “In the eighth century a whole Tartar kingdom, the Khazars, in South Russia, had been converted to Judaism, and maintained an independent and successful existence for more than two centuries, until it fell, in 969, before Sviatoslav, the Duke of Kiev.”
Arthur Koestler’s The Thirteenth Tribe, published in 1976, reignited the debate over the origins of East European Ashkenazi Jews, which he believed were primarily descendants of Khazars. Koestler rejected the idea that Jews were a race (he cited Fishberg’s work as supporting evidence), but also argued, “there exist certain hereditary traits which characterize a certain type of contemporary Jew. In the light of modern population-genetics, these can to a large degree be attributed to processes which operated for several centuries in the segregated conditions of the ghetto: inbreeding, genetic drift, selective pressure.”
Notwithstanding Koestler’s convoluted mental contortions, such a claim is actually compelling evidence for the racial hypothesis rather than evidence to the contrary. Koestler’s notion about race reflects typical misconceptions about the concept — a view endemic among sociologists and social anthropologists, which include contemporary disciples of Franz Boas and Margaret Mead. As a scientist firmly grounded in biology and population genetics, Ostrer for the most part avoids these fallacies about race.
In concluding The Thirteenth Tribe, Koestler summarized his view that contemporary Jews were substantially the descendants of Khazars:
It would of course be foolish to deny that Jews of different origin also contributed to the existing Jewish world-community. The numerical ratio of the Khazar to the Semitic and other contributions is impossible to establish. But the cumulative evidence makes one inclined to agree with the consensus of Polish historians that “in earlier times the main bulk originated from the Khazar country”; and that, accordingly, the Khazar contribution to the genetic make-up of the Jews must be substantial, and in all likelihood dominant.
Shlomo Sand, in his 2009 book, The Invention of the Jewish People, provides some historical documentary evidence in support of Koestler’s theory (see my review). Sand, like Koestler, strongly rejects the racial hypothesis of Jewish origins. He views Jewish history through an egalitarian prism in which races are social constructs and refers to the Jewish race theory as “Mythistory.”
Ostrer briefly mentions the Khazar controversy. After skimming through the history of the Khazars, he believes the findings from the Jewish HapMap Project refute “the theories that Ashkenazi Jews are the descendants of converted Khazars or Slavs.” In Ostrer’s view, Koestler propagated the Khazar theory to diffuse Biblical “anti-Semitism” (the “Christ-killer” accusations popular among some Christians) by claiming that most contemporary Jews had historical ties to Euro-Asian Khazars rather than ties to Palestine.
In addition to the Khazar dispute, Ostrer’s account skillfully navigates through a minefield of other sensitive, politically volatile areas that for many Jews have been a source of contention. Jean-Paul Sartre’s remark that the “Jewish community … is based neither on nation, land, religion … nor material interest, but only on an identity of situation” comes to mind. In his Anti-Semite and Jew, Sartre reflected the views of many liberal Jews in rejecting the notion that this common bond is “ethnic” or racial. Hence, according to Sartre, “the Jewish community is neither national nor international, neither religious, nor ethnic, nor political: it is a quasi-historical community” (emphasis in the original).
The mere suggestion that Jews are a race has prompted accusations of “anti-Semitism” over the years. In contrast to Ostrer’s sober analysis, Alan Steinweis, author of Studying the Jew: Scholarly Antisemitism in Nazi Germany (see the review by Dan Michaels), summarizes the work of prominent Third Reich-era scientists in the chapter, “Racializing the Jew.” Several scholars affiliated with the Kaiser Wilhelm Institute for Anthropology, Human Heredity, and Eugenics come under scrutiny in Steinweis’s account, namely Hans F. K. Gunther, Erwin Baur, Fritz Lenz, Eugen Fischer, and Otmar von Verschuer — scientific pioneers in the field of Rassenhygiene who examined the racial origins of Jews (see also Tom Sunic’s “Race and Religion: Awkward Friends of the White Man,” especially Part III).
Ostrer admits that his major study from 2010, published in the American Journal of Human Genetics, which analyzed DNA markers of 237 Ashkenazi, Middle Eastern, and Sephardic Jews for genetic similarity, sparked denial in some Jewish quarters and insinuations of anti-Semitism in others. Some remarked that “Hitler would have been pleased” with the findings from Ostrer’s team of researchers. The notion that medical researchers could tease out the genetic basis of Jewish ancestry without insidious references to “gas chambers” and “crematoria” decades after the Third Reich has invited a torrent of criticism. Context, perception, and the milieu of persecution and genocide separate Ostrer’s Legacy from the hyper-didactic genre of “Holocaust Studies” literature. The author refreshingly sticks to the relevant subject matter in readable prose largely free of technical jargon.
A central point that John Glad emphasizes in Jewish Eugenics came to mind while reading Legacy. The pursuit of medical advances in understanding the genetic code of various debilitating diseases — and the eventual development of cures via gene therapy — raises the specter of eugenics. Jews have been at the forefront of both cutting-edge research in medical genetics and the eugenic application of such research while actively opposing any broad-based, publicly supported eugenic revival. No one has done more to advance and setback eugenics than Jewish intellectuals; Jews have pioneered the use of medical discoveries and technology for eugenic purposes and as social scientists condemned eugenics as a “bogus” science. It is a glaring double standard — being able to have your cake and eat it too.
Nonetheless, Legacy amplifies a couple of crucial points that Jews have historically rejected or denied. First, despite some slight ambiguities, Ostrer intuitively recognizes that race is a biological phenomenon and that racial and ethnic differences are real. He mentions the important work of Arthur Mourant, “one of the foremost cataloguers of blood groups during the twentieth century” and author of The Genetics of the Jews. Francis Galton, the founder of eugenics, also receives favorable mention. In so far as Legacy explores the matter of race, the approach is balanced, reasonably accurate, and rests on sound biological facts.
Second, the author acknowledges a genetic foundation of some psychological traits, such as intelligence and mental illness. There is an “on the one hand, on the other hand” approach in Ostrer’s chapter on traits, but the coverage is a largely instructive and balanced review of the literature, citing the findings in The Bell Curve as well as Cochran, Hardy and Harpending’s work on the high IQs of Ashkenazi Jews. Regarding IQ and genetic influences on intelligence Ostrer concludes,
Despite much criticism, the notion that general intelligence and its proxy, IQ, are genetically determined has not faded. The assumption of a heritable basis for IQ and for other traits has come from studies of identical twins reared together and apart. The value of studying twins for sorting genetic and environmental effects has been appreciated since Galton published his paper, “The history of twins, as a criterion of the relative power of nature and nurture,” in 1876.
However, Legacy isn’t without its shortcomings. Cyril Burt’s work is briefly mentioned, specifically one of Burt’s studies that compared the test scores of Jewish versus non-Jewish students from three London schools. (Burt concluded that the Jewish students were more advanced for their age.) Ostrer then wades into the allegations of fraud that Leon Kamin, Oliver Gillie, and Stephen Jay Gould leveled against Burt (well-publicized statistical anomalies in Burt’s 1966 paper on identical twins reared apart) after Burt’s death in 1971.
Cyril Burt’s reputation as a towering figure in British psychology came under attack from environmentalist critics (anti-hereditarian skeptics of IQ) and Burt’s official biographer Leslie Hearnshaw (1979) with allegations of fraud in the mid-1970s. Two books — one by Robert Joynson, The Burt Affair (1989), and the other by Ronald Fletcher, Science, Ideology and Media: The Cyril Burt Scandal (1991) — refuted the charges of fraud brought by Burt’s critics. A third monograph edited by N. J. Mackintosh, Cyril Burt: Fraud or Framed?, failed to reach a consensus among the contributors, all well-known experts in the field of educational psychology. (Most of the contributors found insufficient evidence of fraud in Burt’s twin studies research.) J. Philippe Rushton has offered supporting evidence in Burt’s defense in the introduction of a published transcript of one of Burt’s speeches from 1964 on “The School Psychological Service: Its History and Development.” Burt sheds some light on the “careful record of the after-histories of almost every case referred to me.”
It should be noted that Burt’s papers were destroyed by one of his assistants shortly after his death on the advice of Liam Hudson, one of Burt’s staunchest critics. Had Burt’s papers survived, it is quite likely that the allegations against Burt would not have any evidentiary foundation. As to whether the inconsistencies in Burt’s work are the result of intentional deception or random statistical incongruities or unintentional sloppiness (“muddle a-plenty of a minor nature” as W. D. Hamilton noted) it is unlikely that any definite conclusions will be reached without further corroborating evidence. One thing is certain — the charges against Burt remain unproven.
Ostrer fails to mention these developments in the Burt case as if the story ends with Gould’s biased account in The Mismeasure of Man, a book that has recently come under scrutiny for deceptively false information. The point isn’t a relatively minor one since neglecting a substantial body of counter evidence, and relying largely on a discredited critic’s biased account (Gould), calls into question the author’s thoroughness and accuracy in assessing the matter under discussion, even if a tangential topic. Despite this shortcoming, Legacy remains by and large an informative and useful study on the genetic ancestry of Jews.
Cooper Sterling [email him] is a freelance writer in the Washington, D.C. area.
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Without a DNA control sample from Jacob/Israel or any of the 12 patriarches, no one can legitimately and scientifically conclude that those who call themselves the “Jews” today have any physical lawful basis to claim either the title of Judah or Israel from Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
Considering the outright and overt admissions my Judaic authorities, scholars and biblical new testament declarations, it is safe to conclude that those who do claim to be the “Jews” today are not but really from Esau-Edom and Ashkenaz who is from Japeth and not shem- true Jacob/Israel/Judah lineage.
The American Jewish Congress fury at Israeli rabbi and Shas party leader Ovadia Yosef (“who plays a critical role in coalition politics in Israel”) when he dared to challenge modern Jewish convention about the Holocaust. In 2000, he suggested that it seemed to him that “Holocaust victims were punished for sins in an earlier life.” However one might interpret this view, it is something considerably less than innocence. The AJC’s reaction was outrage, and formally, that
“Rabbi Yosef must be charged with knowing that his statements can
be used as an excuse for Nazi barbarisms, as a kind of Nazi apologetics
… He acknowledges the Holocaust but then claims God’s justification
for its horrors. If that is not blasphemy, then nothing is.” [PR
NEWSWIRE, 2-6-98]
Re incarnation sacre bleu!
@TyronRobertParsons:
And without a DNA sample from Noah and his three sons Ham, Sem and Japhet we never can be sure whether the story of the Flood and Noah’s Ark is true or not…
What is more, without a DNA sample of Adam and Eve we never can be sure whether the story of the creation in the book of Genesis is true or not…And yet we need these solid proofs in order to be able to believe in the Bible as God’s Word!
So Tyron, whatcha gonna do about it?
I’d like to explain (briefly) why I’m sceptical of this sort of material, though I haven’t attempted to investigate it in the depth needed, and I don’t know if anyone has.
[1] I know from my own investigations, that biology since about 1945 was and is plagued with systematic mistakes caused by optimistic intepretation of results from techniques which have never been properly validated. These include electron microscopy and subcellular fractionation. (The latter is the process of intensely centrifuging a preparation from cells essentially made by mincing them up). Results which must be wrong include the cell structure with e.g. the ‘endoplasmic reticulum’, the synapses in the brain, cell surface receptors, and identification of viruses. (Look at my site’s comments on Harold Hillman’s work, and a long interview with him). The spurious results have existed for decades and, unless someone comes up with new techniques, will continue to do so.
[2] Similar comments apply to such techniques as carbon 14 dating.
[3] With human DNA, there are two types – mitochondrial and chromosomal. It cannot be assumed – or at least I certainly wouldn’t assume – that the alleged four-base groups do in fact have the functions assumed.
[4] The point here is that there have *probably* not been properly controlled tests to ensure the extraction methods are reliable. There isn’t space here for details; however a critic would look for samples not treated in a blind way, anomalous results being thrown away without comment, other anomalous results being massaged, and inadequate controls over e.g. deciding whether a subject is Turkish or whatever.
[5] There are of course problems over the mathematical models used and their interpretation. Just to take one example, sexual reproduction enables defective DNA to be non-lethal, if it’s recessive, but of course two recessive carriers can be in effect infertile as fetuses fail. Another example: ‘genetic distance’ sounds clear enough, but there are plenty of examples of apparent similarities in groups which can only be remotely related.
[6] I’d advise people to be cautious with all this material. Especially when it deals with a group which has consistently been at the forefront of fraud and deception.
I forgot to add that in a sense it doesn’t matter – we’re here, now, and have problems to face.
However there is an interesting theoretical point – if the Khazar idea is true, and personally I’d back it on population grounds, and on the general idea that mass religious cults tend to go along with a need for larger groups, then it’s a fantastic example of the influence of ideas on behavior.
It’s best to consider the entirety of Jewish mythology as a lie. We see how they lie, distort, and decieve today…what makes anyone think they were different thousands of years ago? Deception is a core aspect of this race; even they don’t know what the truth is, about themselves or anyone else.
Not a word here about the large Armenid (called vorderasiatisch in older German material) element in the Jewish racial mix. This was noted by the Germans, and also by John Baker, who notes that many Jews have an Armenid lower lip.
The review of this data, like Ted’s data indicates that the Jew cult has had a strong marriage taboo.
The Anglo-Saxon King Offa ruled from 757 to 796. He minted a coin with what he intended to be the likeness of King David. It is instantly recognizable as a Jewish profile.
http://ikillboots.thruhere.net/OffasDike/index.php?page=offa.php
The are a mongrel race and adhere to a psychotic re-legion. Rabbi Abe Frankenstein told us that. And of course Eustace Mullins said habiru means “bandits from across the river”. That should be enough info to cause one to avoid them like the plague. Because that is what they are.
@Franklin Ryckaert:
What am I gonna do? First I will point out that you are speaking of yourself and not me when you say “WE cannot be sure of Noah’s flood without a DNA sample” or for that matter Genesis, because the evidence for the flood and creation is so overwhelming, a DNA sample is not needed to establish these easily observable and verifiable facts. Besides, DNA proves we all came from one family…Duh!
Rerevisionists..
AMEN to that….
@TyronRobertParsons:
If you mock a fool by taking his folly seriously and that fool takes your mockery in his turn seriously, then that means that fool is incurable.
How was your holiday inside the Hollow Earth?
One thing that confuses me is this: If Jews are now marrying out of their group at a rate of 30-40% (which I’ve heard but can’t prove), how do they maintain such ethnic cohesion over time? I assume that rate of out-marriage is fairly modern? Or have their been periods in the past with similar rates?
I don’t see how American Jews survive as a group if a third of every modern generation marries a non-Jew.
@Jason Speaks:
They raise the kids with a Jewish identity and then the kids marry back into the tribe.
First of all, thanks to Cooper Sterling for that good book review on an interesting topic. I have not read the book. Perhaps my subsequent remarks would have been answered if I had. This precaution taken, I would say that this article does not cut for me, as to Jews being of a single race:
1) Figure 4.4 indeed shows that ASH, ITJ, GRK, TUR and SYR form independent groups, close to each other. This was done, I understand, by analysis of genetic sub-clusters. So these genetic sub-clusters are a fundamental premise of this study. How significant are these genetic sub-clusters in demonstrating the OVERALL proximity of these groups to each other? In other words, if other genetic sub-clusters had been picked, is it possible that a different picture, with different racial associations, would have emerged?
2) Another way to look at Figure 4.4 is that ASH, ITJ, GRK and TUR are closer to the Europeans than middle-east non Jewish groups, and that SYR are closer to middle-east non Jewish groups than to Europeans.
3) Figure 4.4 shows the last 2 Jewish groups in the study IRQ and IRN rather isolated. It would have been interesting to see where the non Jewish Iraqi and Iranian groups stand in the diagram and if they are located close to their Jewish compatriots or not.
4) It is understood that Figure 4.4 can’t show everything, but it does not show 2 other important Jewish groups: Yemeni and Sephardic from North Africa. I would have been curious to see where they are on that Figure.
5) I am not too sure what Figure 4.6 tells us. It seems somewhat inconsistent with Figure 4.4: For example, the Adygei group seem close to ASH in the latter and faraway in the former.
Pending my being exposed to more studies on that subject, I think I shall keep on trusting what my eyes tell me. Black people seem to produce better basketball players than white people but less PHD in nuclear physics. Likewise, Ashkenazi Jews look more like Europeans than Syrian Jews, who themselves look more like non-Jewish Syrians than Ashkenazi. Why would Ashkenazi Jews have had to wear stars of David under WW2 German occupation otherwise? The genetic sub-clusters may demonstrate a distant common origin, but I suspect that now, that commonality has little weight compared to the rest of their genetic material. Another indication is the difference in average IQ between the 2 groups (See R. Lynn). So, I stay with Koestler and Sand to think that Ashkenazi Jews are, for all practical purposes, Europeans (or a sub-group thereof) and a distinct race from the middle-east Jews. Jews are not one race.
I don’t believe that they are marrying outside of the race at 30%. That sounds high. In any case, those are not the types that have the most children. The Orthodox have big families and they are the ones carrying the torch.
@Janet Smithwick:
I can’t be sure about the 30% rate. But some people on here that seem to know have said it was that much or higher. But, that’s a good point, those that outmarry may not be an important part of the Jewish line. It may be that the core remain strong. And maybe they don’t accept much non-Jewish blood into their lineage.
The correct conclusion is that Judaism is a race that was created by a religion: Phariseeism.
Jesus really said it best when he said” Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.”
The pharisees are the only remaining sect of ancient Judaism and it’s doctrine was denounced as hypocritical by all of the other contemporary variants. The religion spread and consolidated itself by converting foreign tribal chiefs and kings; their lands would then become places of refuge for cadres of talmudic scholars, who would set up new yeshivas that would attract the best and brightest of the new tribe or kingdom. After a local rise in Christianity, Islam and “antisemitism” and with it the persecution of the Jewish population, the process would be repeated, as the most committed migrated to other lands, merged with other jewish groups, and started new colonies elsewhere. Sand’s book gives a good description of this process.
As for the original jews, they were a minute group of visionaries, mystics, prophets and religious geniuses. They wrote the old testament by refining and splicing together material from local pagan sources and making up an amazing tribal history out of whole cloth. Archeologists and historical critical scholars have proven that staple stories like the exodus and the kingdom of Solomon in Jerusalem never really were. In preaching to the hardscrabble local pagan populations, the Hebrew prophets were seeking to create a great nation by telling them that their ancestors had fallen away from a glorious tradition and inheritance. One that could be restored. (Hence the exaggerated ethnocentrism that remains in Judaism today.) They were not doing anything different from what Mohamed did, when he told the pagans at Mecca that their Ka’aba shrine was actually built by Abraham and Ishmael. This is all part of the logic of monotheism.
Therefore, those that wrote the bible are hardly at all related to the pharisees of Jesus’ time, and these are not much more related to modern Jews.
Judaism is only secondarily a racial entity; at root it is a spiritual problem.
@TyronRobertParsons:
Bingo, you nailed it brother, the false jews(khazars)lineage can be traced to just four females like themselves from Khazaria and back further to Cain/Edom and Satan himself. They are neither Isrealites, nor Judaeans, nor are they Galileans but they are the 13tribe , the false ones, the liars and deceivers of all mankind.
I would be interested to know what blood types these false jews have? I doubt whether it could be RH negative .
@Germania Jim:
Well, now that you mix science with myth, shouldn’t you try to prove your thesis by taking the DNA from Satan himself? ( and don’t forget to take his blood test too!).
“hyper-didactic genre of “Holocaust Studies” literature”
I interpret this to mean that the subject matter is proffered as an incontestable truth, no questions welcome.
@mike:
Well the racial component is important to this extent: If all the practitioners of Judaism had been African, it would have had pretty much zero impact on world history.
Of course the Jews are a single race with a distinct look! Why, anyone can see the resemblance between Goldie Hawn and Golda Meir.
@Caleb:
Yeah, and Goldie Caleb!
The ‘Old Testament’ is ‘Triumph Of The Will’ for the jews.
@Jason Speaks: Exhibits A and B for the prosecution: Alex Judas Jones and Jared ‘jews look white to me’ Taylor.
Neither of these guys are jewish themselves, but they might as well be, because they both eagerly run interference for jews and try to restrict the exposure of anti-white jewish behavior. As some have recently noted, Taylor and AmRen do seem to be relaxing their strict rules on discussing jewish predation a little bit, but I would not get my hopes up that this is a sign of any major shift on the issue.
As for Alex Jones, this guy is an incorrigible Judas Goat and is probably the #1 conduit of jewish disinformation and misdirection propaganda. Unfortunately for the jews, though, Jones is widely seen for what he is and I’m pretty sure that his effectiveness has declined considerably over the last decade.
The Arabs own Hollywood. Yea, sure thing, Alex.
The Jews are a race of freed slaves who have been taking their revenge upon Europe for the past 2,000 years. The only way out of this problem is by enslaving them once more and ensuring they that never again achieve any kind of power.
@Luke:
I think you missed the point. Alex Jones said something so outrageously false as to elicit a strong reaction. He succeeded. I am no fan on Jones, but he is 1000% better than Hannity or Glenn Beck.
Arabs own Hollywood, like Whites dominate basketball. People immediately sense that the opposite is true.
As for Jared Taylor, he is a hypocrite. Every non-White group is open to criticism on his website, but not Jews.
So he himself is prone to self-censorship, political correctness, but with a straight face accuses others for the same.
The correct conclusion is that Judaism is a race that was created by a religion
Another scientific post. . .
If a group, species, race or whatever is parasitic isn’t it necessary to breed with the host people enough to look like them? I should imagine they would meet a wall of resistance if they looked too foreign.
It seems to me Jews like being mysterious; it helps conceal their identify. Religion helped conceal their identity. I suspect they took over an existing religion and conformed it to Jewish interests. Whether Jews believe in a god or not they know the god-connection gives them psychological power because true Believers are God-conscious and attentive to anything pertaining to God. The Jews would not be able to influence anybody without getting the kind of attention they need for influence peddling. Credibility is essential. The Church certainly gives Jews all the credibility they could hope for.
Outside the Church Jews are getting unwanted attention. I image curiosity about what kind of species Jews really are is making them uneasy. The last thing they need is for white intellectuals to figure them out!
@Luke:
It’s sad isn’t it. But as demonstrated above, the ‘cult’ of Alex Jones is incredibly strong. Even when he retires to Israel, his followers will tell us he’s infiltrating from within or some such rubbish.
Alex Jones reveals a lot of great material. TONS. Sometimes his spin is crazy, but scary often you can track down what he’s talking about and it’s true. We’ve been over this before. I fail to see how Jones is helping Jews. Everybody knows who he is talking about; elites, globalists, bankers, etc., clearly refer to the tribe. And he has some great guests as well. What do you expect him to do, working in the MSM?
As to Taylor, I don’t try to post there anymore at all, but I do read AR every day. The articles are great. Maybe Taylor’s strategy is to give the Jews an out, push come to shove. His spin on the Israel Wetback thing really is brilliant, saying that the Jews are showing us the way to maintain a white society. He’s giving those double dealers a chance to change course here in the USA before whites explode in violence and pogroms begin. You have to admit that Taylor is VERY intelligent and a great writer. While I don’t agree with his stance of Jews, I still have respect for the man. To stand up for the white race takes big balls! He’s been doing it for many years. Imagine the kind of hate that gets thrown at him, and he’s an upper class dude and he went to Yale. He’s a great place to start for new people to the white movement. Hell, he’s been on mainstream talk shows. You think they’re gonna allow Kevin on some mainstream talk show to reveal the truths he’s discovered? Not a chance. (If they did, the pogroms would begin the next day!)
Let me share another great quote from CofC; “Whatever their situation-in almost every country about which we have information, a segment of the Jewish community played a very vital role in movements designed to undermine the existing order.” Rothman and Lichter. Jews telling the truth about Jews!
@Mark White:
Israel Finkelstein showed the utter fallacy of adhering to the claims of the Old testament as having any archeological basis, reaffirmed by the Copenhagen School which dates the document to early Hellenistic times. The Old Testament today dates its manuscript back only to medieval Spain, and the dead sea scrolls fragments may indeed be translations of the Greek Septugint. All this suggests , and affirmed by Finkelstein and others, that the Exodus, Exile are bogus historical myths most likely stolen from another people, like the 10 commandments stolen from the Babylonians. Even Moses was not a Jew but an Israelite, and does not speak the tongue of his co-religionists, marries and habitates in Medea where he had no such lingiusitic issues (ie he was an Arabic speaker).
This , together with the Jewish encyclopedia entry on the Hebrew language , which early on identified “Hebrew” as merely Moabite Canaanite, a “vulgtar dialect” of arabic, also spoken regionallyand not just by the Jews suggests the following.
Judaism springs out of the Israelite religion in Hellenistic times where Greek was dominant even in the jewish community. They later abaondoned their Moabite Canannite “Hebrew” for Greek and Aramaic. (another dialect of ancient arabic), The Roman destruction of the rebellion of the Jews as foretold by Jesus in the NT scatters these ancinet Jews who later morph into Eastern Christianity of the monotheistic type (the first Ebionites in Jerusalem who despized St, Paul). These first monotheistic Christians coming from this Palistinian Jewish community were suppressed by the Church of Rome under the pagan Constantitne who insisted on sun worship on Sundays, outlawing the ancient Jewish Sabbath as practiced by the first Christians of the Apostles. So where did these people go? Small Jewish populations persisted in Egypt , Palestine, and Arabia, others became Christians of the Byzantine or later Eastern Church with its Aramaic bible. The remnant of pre Christian Jews are protected under the Islamic conquest and even flourish inside this civilization, as those permitted to deal in usury and human traficking.
It was during this time, the Islamic protectorate of the Jews, that we see the re-emergence of the use of “Hebrew” as a code language indecipherable to the rulers. MUch of Rabbinic talmudic learning even today requires knowledge of arabic as much of the commentaries are written in the host civilization language, then later coded into “Hebrew”, a mere scholastic language, most likely not widely spoken by the Jews in Islamic provinces.
European colonialism and slave trading destroys the cash cow of trade with the East monopolized the Middle Eastern traders. Europe takes ascendancy with the New World and the occupation of India for 400 years. The Medeival Jews of Islam switch sides and slave trade usure their way into Europe mainly from the East, from the Central Asian Islamic cultures into Europe and from Islamic Balkan (Yiddish is Sorbian, a Balkan slavic language). Solzinitzen writes they were in Russia a mere 200 years destroying itshristian culture and perverting it into the USSR in half that time. Akk this time they are inter marrying with Rurks and Slavs that populate this migration corricor
So their Talmudic Judaism religion is the most recent of the 3 abrahamaic faiths, as the Talmud is newer than the New Testament, and the Holy Quran (published first in Islamic Spain), despite their claism that 20 volumes of books were memorized as part of some oral tradition pre dating Christianity.
They may have some claim to an admixture with the earliest Jews in Palestine, but it is far more likely that Oriental Jews, local Muslims, and Coptic Christians have a much larger percentage of Israelite DNA.
Not one of the studies cited (as far as I can tell) investigates wherher local Muslims, Oriental Jews, and Coptics are the true inheritorrs of ancient Israel, not the slavic turk admixture known as Ashkenazim.
@Janet Smithwick:
“He’s giving those double dealers a chance to change course here in the USA before whites explode in violence and pogroms begin.”
Not going to happen. Braindead kwans worship the jews. They fawn over israel and god’s “chosen;” they love the jews more than they love actual Americans. Amerikwa is united in one thing only, and that is endless love and adoration of the international jew.
@mike: I like your analysis. I’ve long believed that Jews are neither an ethnie nor a religion. They are simply an identity group. There are blonde, blue-eyed Jews, Negro Jews, and even Chinese Jews. This book is merely Jewish propaganda.
The only thing Jews have in common is a Jewish identity. In other words, the only thing that makes a Jew, a Jew is that he believe he is a Jew and others who believe they are Jews believe he is a Jew.
@fender:
… Madagascar ? (:-))
I try to avoid those bible obsessed protestant types because they ignore the Christian part of the Bible and obsess on the Jews part of the Bible which is mostly slay the enemy, kill the enemy trick them into getting circumsised and then kill them all when they are sick with infection caused fever (Book of Dinah).
One thing I truly admire about the Roman Catholics is that they pay attention to the Christian, not the Jewish part of the bible. The protestants seem to blunder around in some sort of children’s bible story fantasy. Most seem like they want to be Jews. So why don’t they just steal a million dollars to meet the financiall requirements and convert?
Those hard left lesbian Rabbis will convert just about anyone who meets the financial requirements.
A friend occasionally goes to a progressive temple that is soooo proud of having a Chinese lesbian rabbi. So anyone can get in.
Fender,
Only the Hagee nitwits worship the Jews. Since the bailouts, anti-semitism is mainstream and well-deserved. When the ADL labeled Ann Coulter and antisemite, she said, “Coming from Abe Foxman, that’s a compliment.” In other words, the old labels of “racist” and “antisemite” have worn thin and no longer carry much weight. I am totally immune to any reaction to such labeling. I just don’t care, and I know what to shoot back.
@TabuLa Raza:
The Jew cult marriage taboo over the centuries has created a racial dimension as part of the cults existence. That’s pretty obvious.
@Janet Smithwick:
Taylor’s strategy initially made sense when he wanted more mainstream attention.
But last 5 years of AmRen show he failed miserably. Hotel bookings cancelled, barred from all venues, what did he achieve?
He is intelligent, his is openly pro-White. Not like Alex Jones, Glenn Beck, Limbaugh dog whistling. But ignoring Jewish elephant didnt help him go mainstream.
Macdonald directly took bull by the horns in a serious intellectual way.
The Jews are undoubtedly a group, but are they a race or a nation?
The incidence of relatively high rates of specific genetic disorders is indicative of a rapid population growth with inbreeding amongst genetically isolated people which does not make them a race. That they look ‘different’ to those within whose countries in which they live simply makes them non-indigenous.
What about ‘high’ Ashkenazi IQ? A proper race has people of a range of IQs. The reason for that is very simple: clever people do not want to do the work of the peasantry otherwise the less well endowed would have eliminated though inferior access to resources over time. Therefore a group can become ‘high IQ’ simply by reliquishing its peasant or unskilled working class. Therefore a proper nation with a territory has a range of IQs to cope with all the work within that territory including labouring. In essence, therefore Askenazis are not a race and never had, as an aboriginal group, a national state.
It is quite possible that the Ashkenazi group increased rapidly by preferential access to wealth through having a monopoly of usury when there was a prohibition of moneylending by the two other Abrahamic religions.
@Janet Smithwick:
I see no signs of ordinary amerikwans waking up. As long as they have their low quality, mass-produced judenscheiss on their flatscreens and their cheap ipods and ihpones made by overseas slaves, they won’t care who’s ruling them. Support for Yidrael is at an all-time high and it shows no signs of abating. The greatest thing amerikwans think they can be are wall street bankers, and thus the bean-counting jew is the real hero of the average amerikwan materialist. This country is hopeless.
KM is the intellectual powerhouse, no doubt. But his transformation came in increments, as his knowledge grew. Twenty five years of study and there was no way to refute the sad revelations regarding the Jewish movements.
But you have a good point, that Taylor has been mistreated anyway, and marginalized, even as he has tried to remain ultra fair and overly kind to the Jews. They are not willing to permit us to organize in any way shape or form. They are that afraid of us. It’s almost comical, really. Had they not screwed up by forcing the third world hordes on us, we would never have objected to their presence or influence. It’s almost as if they have an inbuilt arrogance, a special gene for backstabbing betrayal.
Still, you have to give Taylor some props. C’mon. We post here anonymously, and in my case, I’d lose my job immediately if my true opinions were made public. But Taylor and KM and DD and others deal with in your face aggression that would have to be very tiresome and disturbing. Fact is, and I mean this in all honesty, these issues should be debated OPENLY, and it would be GOOD for the Jewish community in the long run. Rather than trying to put a lid on dissent, the Jews should man up and find the integrity to question some of their despicable policies and unfair treatment of WASPS.
As Mearsheimer and Walt noted, Israel should be put in check and it would be GOOD for Israel.
@Jason Speaks:
If I were to indulge in a fight of fantasy, I would suggest the policy of elite universities admission policies was another exercise in what is good for the Jews. Bring the brightest of our kids under their influence and control. Marry the brightest, for an infusion of new blood to correct the inescapable consequences of inbreeding, persuade all other women to bear few or no children, disconnect the rest from the fate of their own people. Seems to work.
@Janet Smithwick:
Good for you, Janet. I agree that millions of people, who never gave any more thought to the issue of Jewish criminality than they did to reality of UFO’s, have started looking for answers since the bailout. They are not hard to find. Far too many of us are more concerned with maintaining our status as the only ones in the know than we are in helping our own people. The poor souls who wander in here looking for truth are very likely to be met with sneers, insults and lunatics. I sometimes think that when the revolution does come- WNs will be the last to know.
On an upnote; Al Assad is still hanging on (bless his heart) and Russia and China continue to support him in spite of Hillery’s threats. Also, Iran is still refusing to bow the knee as a Soverign State and Israel is contemplating the consequences to their existence if they start WWIII
@Heather Blue: Bingo! Take off the “dark glasses”, nothing to see here, move along, move along….
@Janet Smithwick:
I give Taylor marginal props. But what has he actually accomplished in his WN career? Absolutely jack, just like plasticface David Duke. Taylor spends a few minutes on a couple TV shows, gets shouted down by the liberal retards who defend their black pets and jewish overlords, and then he goes back to his house to schedule another AmRen conference that will inevitably get shut down.
You know what the trick is to gaining a true following? You have to do what the man with the funny mustache did in the 20s and appeal to emotion, not reason. And by emotion I mean the basest and most primal of emotions: anger, rage, resentment, etc. The shallower, more manageable emotions don’t do true leaders any good. Napoleon said it best: in order to move a man, you must electrify his soul. Intellectual stimulation does nothing but provide information; it’s useful, but does nothing to affect change.
People like Taylor and Duke think that people can be reached through reasoned arguments and talking points. Not true. People don’t listen to facts, they have no need for facts. You don’t reason with people, you TELL people the way things are going to be and don’t take any sh*t from them. You shout and scream. You say screw the middle class and intellectuals, as Hitler did, and aim for the working class, the risk-takers with nothing to lose. You get together with people and hold massive rallies at places where you can’t get kicked out of, and you have an army of thugs at your disposal to f*ck up anyone who tries to mess with you. And you keep doing that and doing that until you’ve got a mass movement that cannot be controlled.
Golden Dawn in Greece is a great example of how to do it. When commies and antifas screw with them, GD fights back. They’re not afraid of using force, and people- ALL people- naturally respect force. That’s what got them into the parliament. Kind of like der fuhrer’s beer hall rallies, where a few dozen of his guys managed to kick out hundreds of commies when they caused trouble. The leftists are scrawny, weak people. Even in numbers they’re cowards. If only AmRen had a militant/security wing no one would screw with them, but Taylor is too effeminate to go that far, and that’s why he fails and Golden Dawn succeeds. GD isn’t afraid of bringing the fight to the left and meeting them on equal terms. Great example: one of GD’s people was caught slapping a communist woman around, and the press thought it would harm their chances during the election. Instead it actually gave them an edge.
Whites WANT leadership, as all people do. They want to be given orders and directed, and since WNs don’t do it, they instead listen to jews and leftists. If other WN groups were as organized and determined as Golden Dawn is we’d be making serious headway. Instead people like Geert Wilders, the BNP, Amren, etc. are SO concerned with being nice and respectable and reasonable that they don’t get anything done. The left has never, ever been reasonable with their opponents, so neither should we.
It seems I’ve already read the above this morning. . .
@fender:
I have come to similar conclusion. Reason is not enough. Emotion and strong desire for self preservation is what works.
But with pornography, TV, sugar drinks, Jews have erased desire for self preservation. Man is a fighting animal. So Jews have been making whites numb enough to kill all fighting spirit.
When it comes down to it, all that matters is fighting spirit. Castrate a bull, and all fighting spirit is gone. He
That is why Western nations and the Church promoted abstinence. Which Jews call “repression”.
Sexual liberation of children, adolescents and adults was Jewish plan to kill fighting spirit.
@Janet Smithwick:
I have said it dozens of times before. Join Ron Paul movement to end fractional reserve government banking. Gold coin standard will immediately give White families economic security.
Also, Jews are manning the Federal Reserve, IRS, CIA, CNN, DHS, TSA, so no time to man-up for Jews. Jews are in a hurry to exterminate White Western World.
When all Whites are exterminated, Jew will put his two feet up and man-up retrospectively in his Kibbutz. Whites are in their own suicide slumber party. Clock is ticking.
@TabuLa Raza:
Been browsing the golden dawn thread at vnn too? I like the board a lot. Don’t post there though. No real need, between this site and that one.
I wish to address several issues and points and just plain interesting comments.
The Habiru were robbers from the other side of the river. Well, that just means bedouin raiders, the supposed ancestors of Jews. Scandinavians or Englishmen are descendants of vikings. Their ancestors were Norwegian, Danish, or Anglo-Saxon vikings/pirates (see Dark Age Naval Power for info on Anglo-Saxon, Frankish, and other migration period piracy). This has little to do with the anti-white machinations that are currently occurring. I am not defending those. The Habiru raiders have little to do with that.
The comment on Goldie Hawn. Goldie Hawn has one Jewish parent. She is also apparently descended from the Pilgrims (making some educated guesses from her Wikipedia biography). She did end up with beautiful blond hair and blue eyes. Blue eyes anyway. Blond from a bottle? I don’t know. Sock it too me baby!
Another example might be Mila Kunis. I think that she is 100% Jewish. She appears to be a Mediterranean-Mongoloid mix. She looks like a Khazar.
The picture of Offa’s coin looks like an Ethiopian or Somali!
The Khazars. Experts on Steppe nomads indicate that nomadic confederacies often included different ethnic groups. In addition, even the Turkic element is not necessarily just composed of Mongoloid racial types. The sizable Central Asian Mediterranean component (perhaps similar to an Afghan of Med. Type) might be hard to differentiate from Near Eastern peoples. A genetic study of Turcoman nomads from the eastern Caspian region (who display Mediterranean phenotype with some Mongoloid admixture) , some Uzbeks, and Uigur turks might be instructive. I would like to see a comparison between Ashkenzis and Turcomans. It is still debated just what composed the actual physical anthropology of various Turkic peoples. They may have been a mixture of Baikal types, Mediterranean types, Nordic types, Armenoid types, and even some Cro-Magnoid types (see the German excavations of Magyar graves for insight into the heterogeneous nature of steppe confederacies). For example, the Huns almost certainly did not look like Mongols (Mongolians) or Koreans. The Avars seem to have been Mongols, however. The westward trek of the tribal confederacies which sometimes occurred over about 200 years (like Hsiung-Nu in Mongolia on a westward trek to end up Huns in Europe) would also have involved some absorption of the western nomads. The first major Turkic invasion of Europe, that of the Huns, involved overrunning the South Russian Steppes which were inhabited by Indo-European and probably largely Nordic type Alan nomads of Iranian language family speech but Nordic type together with the Nordic Goths, Germanic newcomers to the region. They would have also been in contact with populations from the Caucasus mountains. Peoples like the Georgians (of approximately Armenoid type) and others of that type would also have a genetic influence. Don’t doubt that Eastern Steppe Peoples reached Europe, however. The actor Charles Bronson is a descendent of Lithuanina Tatars. The Tatars inhabited Manchuria at the time of the rise of Genghis Khan. Those that the Mongols did not wipe out were absorbed and moved west in the Mongol armies.
This emphasis on genetic studies requires complete faith in the conclusions of experts. It also completely ignores obvious phenotypic evidence that contradicts the genetic studies. Phenotypic traits are envrironmental adaptations. Fair skin is an adaptation to an environment of low exposure to solar radiation. The fair skin aids in the sythesis of vitamin D in low light situations.
Also, even these genetic studies seem to indicate a 50% European ancestry. So a Goldie Hawn would be of 75% European, 25% Near Eastern ancestry, according to these genetic studies.
As for the comments on Alex Jones and Jared Taylor. The cup is half full. Jones is a hypo-manic narcissist and some of his failings are due to that. Jones has an ego the size of Texas. If I am wrong about his psychological deficiencies, he is a better actor than I thought. Jones does expose the elitist scams and a lot of the elitists are not Jewish. Clinton, Brzezinski, Bush, etc. A lot, or the majority of the Council on Foreign Relations members are not Jews, for example. You can safely assume that the Bilderbergers, the Royal Institute of International Affairs, The Trilateral Commission, The Skull and Bones, and all of the other most powerful organized crime families pretending to be legitimate political organizations are all pushing immigration invasions and white dis-empowerment, except for their own regal personages.
Jared Taylor does expose the very imminent and urgent threat to whites by black mobs of “youths.” He also exposes the immigration Quisling attack on our country and all of the western countries and peoples. The violent anti-white mobs are an imminent threat. Immigration is an imminent threat and lowers employment at all levels and not just at the bottom of the socio economic level. Another threat addressed by Taylor is the Antifa movement of violent criminal fascist anti-white racists and self hating whites with a strong communist flavor.
On another note. I do not understand the Christian Identity crowd. I cannot understand why anyone would embrace any Middle Eastern religion of servitude. Not to mention the lack of any historical veracity whatsoever to the notions of Middle eastern ancestry. Why do Europeans even want to be Middle Easterners?
@Sanjay:
Taylor does a lot of good for White folks. When I woke up racially, Taylor was there. Although Taylor is not firm enough in his stance on Jews, if I had first come upon Stormfront instead of Amren, I wonder if I would have thrown in the towel and dismissed my then-recent doubts about American Racial Orthodoxy (TM).
As a non-White, you are not in a position to criticize him from that direction, and your take on him is very suspicious considering all the good he does.
Well said.
@Jenko:
very suspicious of me? Well I cannot help with that. And its actually healthy to be suspicious and guarded. So I wish you well.
But Taylor’s Jewish overtures clearly have not succeeded in broadening his audience, at least so far. That was my central point.
As I said, he is clearly on our side relative to Glenn Beck, Limbaugh etc.
Taylor does NOT get shouted down by liberal retards; in fact, he tore Phil Donahue a new asshole.
It is true that most people probably do not necessarily respond to rational argument, and are more swayed by base emotional appeals.
Still, I think that DD and JT and KM all do great work in the best way that they themselves know how to do it. Easy to play armchair quarterback from our command center keyboards, while not taking any personal risks whatsoever.
There’s a fascinating thread at Stormfront that deals with how and why people become WN. Concensus is that SOMETHING has to happen to the person to wake them up; they get robbed or raped by a non-white, lose a job to a non-white, figure out that the bailouts were handouts to rich Jews, job loss, foreclosure, whatever….has to be something dramatic to shake them up, and then they are motivated to find out who is causing the pain.
Certainly there ARE people who respond to well reasoned arguments, and that’s why we are here. It has to start somewhere.
Maybe we should take circumcision into account to be able to understand the ‘agressive, pushy jews’. Maybe it is not so much race or religion, but the ‘Hidden Trauma’ that is at the bottom of the jewish mentality.
It is a fact that there is much mental disturbance in the jewish group. Even the jewish Encyclopedia tells you so. Google also: ‘Mental Disturbance, A Jewish Disease?’
According to Roger Dommergue – a French jew from an aristocratic family – the act of circumcision on the eight day is not only a trauma inflicting act, but it destroys forever the hormonal system in the jewish man. Exactly on day eight the ‘first puberty’ begins; it is a rather complicated story which I am unable to explain in my poor English, but it affects, the excretion of the ‘balance hormone’. In a healthy man the hormonal system always seeks balance; harmony. Because of circumcision on day eight in the jewish man there is a lack of this hormone. Well see it for yourselves.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQ46CJ8UPJU
This mental disturbance have become a genetic factor through the generations.
@Theodora:
If the Jews have become “aggressive and pushy” due to the trauma of circumcision ( whether that destroys the “balance hormone” or not ), then why is not the same the case for the Muslims who also circumcise their boys?
Sounds like special pleading to me.
@Franklin Ryckaert:
I thought the vast majority of American males were circumcised as well, along with large numbers of Europeans. It’s amazing how far people will go to avoid assigning any weight to race even on a White racialist website! Everyone wants it to be culture, or religion or occult practices – why does everyone flinch when it comes to race? Have we all unconsciously absorbed the “race doesn’t matter” message?
@Franklin Ryckart:
A muslim boy is circumcised at the age of 6 or 8 years. That’s a huge difference. Still it is a horrific operation but it doesn’t inflict so much the endocrinial system.
See for yourself the youtube interview. There is a version in French, otherwise a four part version with English translation. Roger Dommergue is a very wise and also funny man to listen to. He explains why anti-semitism is in the jew and not in the anti-semite. Jews will call him a selfhating jew, I am sure, because he explains all the corrupting and parasitic mentality. He doesn’t spare the jew, on the contrary, he points his finger at the jew!!
@Connor McNessa – with respect, it’s all very well to talk about Avars, Huns, Mongols, Alans, Tatars… but bear in mind that the last century has had unprecedented mobility. Stalin in particular moved large numbers of people around, and they were propagandised in so far as anyone bothers to propagandise not very literate groups. And vast numbers of males were mobilised for WW2. 50 to 80 years later, in many cases you’d be reliant on oral family history for origins. Or at least that seems a plausible guess – maybe you’re perfectly aware of this and take it into account, as you sound properly skeptical.
@Theodora:
I would think being circumcised at the age of 6 to 8 is FAR WORSE than having it happen as an infant. Again, most White guys in America are circumcised. Why are we assuming Jewish behavior derives from this experience? Is this a serious discussion?
Where is Pierre?
Where is Mickey?
And by the way where is Joe Webb?
@Jason Speaks:
I agree, the special character of Jews must be something innate and not due to some accident, even if that accident always happens. Otherwise all Muslim men, or at least all white men in the US and Europe who are – just like the Jews – circumcized shortly after birth, would equally have chutzpah.
There is a relentless propaganda for this genital mutilation going on in the US.
About this the website circumstitions.com/USA says :
Hey, which special ethnic group in the US dominates both the media and the medical associations that propagandize this practice? Might it not be the same ethnic group that tries to subjugate the whole of humanity under Seven Noahide Laws as part of their supremacist agenda?
Anyway, this practice obviously doesn’t confer chutzpah on its victims, that comes for its possessors from a wholly different source.
@Janet Smithwick:
The main goal of the Zionist Jews is total control of the world. They care nothing about fairness. TheTalmud states that they are the Chosen People, and that they have the right to be the masters over all gentiles, and to own all of the riches of the World.
They know that their people have lied, cheated, and stolen from Whites for a very long time. They know that more and more people are now catching on to their actions.
They were too patient with Stalin, who was to be their puppet, but he got away from them. They will not make that mistake again. The Zionist Jews are going for the golden ring.
As for their flooding the USA and other White countries with Third World Immigrants; it has worked very well. This is their long-time method of ‘Divide and Conquer’. The idea is to create fighting between ethnic groups; whether it is verbal fights or mass murder.
Recently, there have been an increase of Black-on-White attacks like the flash-mobs beatings and the ‘Thrill Kills’ of Blacks murdering Whites. The Zionists love this type of violence. They know that it will increase over time, which increases Zionist power.
The Zionist controlled media censer the news by such acts by not reporting Blacks killing Whites; and when there is White-on-Black violence, they replay it over and over for weeks. The Zionists work hard to increase the murder rate. Black-on-White violence is many times that of the reverse.
They are now concerned about unpredictable attacks against them.
One is the military ‘Oath Takers’ that are saying that the they will only go so far before they will not follow orders from their superiors. The Zionists are afraid of a military coup. They are also afraid of the States demanding their 10th Amendment Rights; and maybe a Constitutional Convention.
It is even possible that riots may break out. If any of these events happen; then it increases the chances that the Congress or POTUS may stand up to them.
They are trying to shore up their power over the US government even with things like Obama awarding Shimon Peres the Presidential Medal Of Freedom; while most European Countries think of Israel as a terrorist state.
They are closing in on control of all White countries. They now control the US Congress and the ‘President’. Romney has now been ordered to Israel for instructions, and to make sure that he knows who is boss.
The increasing of Zionist power in the 20th Century. The First Zionist Congress met in 1897, then each year until 1901; and then changed to every other year. The Zionist were in organizing mode. Two of their actions were to plan the creation of a Jewish State, and the creation of the document
‘The Protocols of the Elders of Zion’.
The Zionists have always claimed that this document was a ‘forgery’. First it could not have been a forgery, unless someone else had already created the document. But, most importantly, it is proven that this document was indeed a document that was a plan for conquest. Henry Ford stated about 1926 that the Zionists were indeed using this document for advancement; because they were closely following the plans of the written ‘Protocols’. ‘Surprise,
Surprise, Zionist lies’.
Another action of the Zionists is the protection of Jewish genes. It is true that Jews inter-marry at a high rate. However, it is also true that Jews protect their genes. They have increased this protection by several actions. Judaism is a culture with several means of protection.
Judaism is a ‘spin-out’ culture. Think of Judaism as being three overlapping circles; one each for religion, genes, and culture. This gives Judaism a very strong base. These circles have many rings that are outside the center ring. The innermost rings are the strongest with the most power.
For example, in the center of their religion there are the Ultra-Orthodox Jews, including the rabbis. Within this inner ring is the priest class, Cohen, Cohn, etc. This class has the most power and respect; and also they generally have the highest number of children. In addition, the best off-spring, i.e., intelligence, health, strength, looks, etc., are kept in
this inner ring; while the lesser ones are relegated to an outer ring. Also, if a child in an inner ring marries to a spouse in an outer ring, then this child is booted out to an outer ring. They are no longer a Cohen.
Consider these differences. In a Christian church, generally the pastor is the most gracious; while rabbis are usually not. Christians are always recruiting for members; while it is difficult for anyone to join a Jewish congregation. A Christian pastor will not likely have 10 children. In a church, they pass the collection plate; where in a synagogue each member
must pay dues decided by the rabbi.
Now with our third- world immigrants with lower IQs, intermarriage will then lower the average IQ of our folk over time. It is my consideration that Jews are breeding mostly for intelligence. This means that after a few generations,
Jews will have IQs that are much higher than our folk. Jews will then have most all of the intellectual careers; while our folk will have the simple labor jobs, if we are lucky.
Consider how the Jews go ballistic if anyone even mentions Eugenics. The real reason that the Jews are so much against Eugenics, is that they want it for themselves only.
@Jason Speaks:
Franklin Ryckaert:
Please explain. Are all white men in America cut? I thought that Americans had abandoned this wrong, jewish practice. At what age are American men circumcised? Is the operation under narcose?
It must have been Christhaters who wanted circumcision for Christian men. Like porn being a middle finger to Christian Civilization, so circumcision is the ultimate offense to Christ. Christians practice ‘the circumcision of the heart’, which means we don’t need the fysical pain to behave in a civilized way, because Christ saved us. With circumcision you nullify the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.
My point is not so much to excuse jews for their behaviour, but to understand why a group of people with a variety of ethnic background behave in a identical way. I don’t think jews are a race; there are too many differences between one jew and another. Michael Bradley, a Sefardic jew, explains how the Askhenazim are direct descendants of the Neanderthaler: Iceman Inheritance. And the Askhenazi look down very much on the jews from Morocco: The Ringworm Children. So between themselves jews are very much race aware. It is to the outside world that they fake being a race.
So, there must be another factor at work apart from their satanic talmud to explain their behaviour as a group. The trauma induced on the 8th day of their life with all the endocrinial consequences could be such a factor.
@Theodora:
How does your theory account for the fact that Jewish women are often more aggressive than males?
@Alice Teller: Americans are also starting to ask why our leaders are bleeding the country dry in foreign wars, which most of their constituents oppose. None of it makes sense until you connect the dots. The truth is consonant and if for nothing else but peace of mind, honest people will always seek it.
As the myths of Daniel and Joseph illustrate, better than being the power on the throne is to be the power behind it.
A few wide ranging observations:
1) Benjamin Harrison Freedman, a Jew who converted to Roman Catholicism referred to the Ashkenazi Jews as Khazars over 60 years ago. His speeches were peppered with a phrase something like ‘I have all of the proof’.
2) While at one time nomadic, the Khazars did have cities.
http://dianarn.wordpress.com/2008/09/21/discovery-of-lost-capital-unearths-more-about-ashkenazi-jews/
There are stories that Stalin suppressed previous discoveries so as not to give credence to Ashkenazi Jews being the ruthless gang they have shown themselves to be from Biblical times.
3) The 10 Commandments are not Babylonian, they are from the Egyptian Laws of Maat.
4) The origins of dissent towards the RC Church were not so much the tenets of the faith, but the mysticism, trappings, and the corrupt wealth gathering mechanisms of the RC Church, which included the infallibility of the Pope. As an aside, celibate originally meant un-married. Priests were said to have preyed on the young daughters of farmers and tradesmen prior to the Protestant Reformation. Abstinence from sexual relations in the Lutheran Church of my confirmation days (50+ years ago) was taught as a form of self control.
5) Iceland, a small population that is homogeneous, has traces of Amerind DNA. That doesn’t mean they are Indians.
http://www.thecuttingedgenews.com/index.php?article=21814&pageid=28&pagename=Sci-Tech
It only means early contact. Genetic studies are far from definitive at this point.
@Felix:
Indeed. Part of our individualism is a tendency to simply get on with our own lives as long as it is possible to do so. It no longer possible to ignore the elephant in the room, it is crushing us all.
@Franklin Ryckaert:
Another little question that never arises is why Jewish mothers, no matter how liberated and secular, all stand by and allow their sons to be cut, without benefit of anesthesia or even sterile conditions, by a man who has no medical credentials? It is true than many non-jews are circumcised, by a doctor, in a hospital. There is a difference. What an odd people!
@Alice Teller:
Not only has the man who does the Jewish circumcision no medical credentials, but he also….well, look up metzitzah b’peh and see for yourself!
No mo “chutzpah”.
JERUSALEM, Israel — In a ruling that should give Jews in Germany pause, the District Court of Cologne outlawed circumcision. The court further stated that parents don’t have the right to impose their faith on a child.
Rabbi Abraham Cooper of the Simon Wiesenthal Center told CBN News, “There’s not a snowball’s chance in h– the Jewish people would ever look to a German court, especially when it comes to how we should define our values or fulfill our traditions.”
@Franklin Ryckaert:
ughhh…gross
@Franklin Ryckaert:
It has resulted in the death of some newborns from herpes infection as a result of this practice. The answer? Prophylactic treatment – more needless risk to a newborn….. madness!
http://www.emaxhealth.com/8782/jewish-circumcision-ritual-baby-deaths-may-be-preventable-prophylactic-treatment
This is the problem with the white movement. Too many of us criticize and insult our own in the movement. These people are looking out for our collective best interests, just not in the method we would like them to. Taylor has done a phenomenal job in waking up a lot of whites. And although he may just be the appetizer, his actions have created a large pool hungry for dessert. Some people wolf down their meal in minutes while others linger over it for hours.
@fender:
True. At some point, force is required. Their whole ‘labelling’ method is not there to make people feel guilt… it’s a direct threat to someone’s ability to pursue a career/employment. Any appeasement only strengthens their position.
@Joanne Dee:
Hear hear. People are ranked by their contribution. Taylor’s critics on TOO..what rank have they?
@Connor McNessa: On another note. I do not understand the Christian Identity crowd.
When the twelve tribes marched the eagle was always facing west and now the land of the eagle can go no further west. As Fukuyama wrote it is the end of history; or will be when the eagle screams and all the other birds run for cover and even the lion looks up. Don’t worry about understanding “identity.” Just be comforted with the fact that no matter how bad it gets (and it will get bad) the American people will not only return to the old ways but you will never be conquered.
@Sandy:
Well meaning Sandy, but to the subtitle reads “things are so bad we may as well turn to folksey fantasy”
I think its a good thing that JT doesn’t talk about the Jews. The reality is that most whites are not ready to face the fact that they are ruled by a hostile tribe that is pursuing policies that will destroy them sooner rather than later. Amren provides a good gateway to white racial consciousness without confronting people with a reality they are not yet ready to face.
‘Most whites’ = ‘the masses’. People will always need a true leader, like Fender says. This is what shapes history and the intellectual discussion is there to provide a deeper spiritual meaning (usually on reflection). 1000 years ago, a family of Vikings in the space of 100 years, managed to smash the Anglo-saxons, the Byzantines, a Papal Army, the Muslims in South Italy and took Jerusalem against all odds. These Normans gave Europe a new heartbeat and they were just a small tribe.
If WN is filled with too much criticism, it’s only because someone worthy hasn’t emerged to bring order, whilst sufficiently representing the will of its followers. I’m not attacking Youtube videos and conferences. These are excellent for increasing the people’s will and triggering the critical mass so we’re not just hoping for the enemies to see reason (which they won’t).
@Alice Teller:
‘How does your theory account for the fact that jewish women are often more agressive than males?’
Well, I am not an expert, but as far as I know we get our genes from both the parents. I suppose that there is a heap of information laid down in the genes. The trauma and mental disturbance that comes with the jewish circumcision will be passed on by the father to the next generation; also to his daughters.
The big difference between jewish cutting and for example the islamic, is the moment in which the operation takes place. On the 8th day in the life of a child with the beginning of this ‘first puberty’ which lasts 21 days. Exactly in this vital stage of life, where the hormone system is formed, the child has to undergo this traumatic, excruciating and barbaric procedure without any form of aenestesia!! Maybe all the hatred and rage so many jews harbour against the world stems from this cutting. Add to this years of talmudic learning and you have people at war with everybody but their own.
Don’t get me wrong, I am not excusing jews for their misbehaviour, but I try to understand. Just my two cents.
@Theodora:
You sin against a basic rule of biology, which says : “Acquired characteristics are not inherited.” The following example will illustrate why nature has so ordained. Suppose a man loses an arm in an accident and after that fathers a child. If acquired characteristics would be inherited, then his child would miss one arm at birth. If that child grows up and in his turn loses his other arm in an accident and after that fathers a child, then that child would be born without both arms. Similar with other mutilations. In the course of time all animals and men would be total cripples. Hence in nature acquired characteristics are not inherited. And this is only about physical characteristics. It is even more doubtfull that psychological traumas are inherited. Again if that were true, then the whole of humanity would consist of psychological cripples by now. In short the idea is nonsense.
@Franklin Ryckaert:
I do wonder, however, what the effect of the emotional state of a pregnant woman has on the uterus. Do women who are cherished and protected give birth to well balanced children? Does anyone know of any studies done on this?
@Alice Teller:
It stands to reason to believe that if the emotional state of a mother influences her growing child, this influence also exists during pregnancy. If you google prenatal education you’ll find many websites that deal with this subject.
There exist special courses for expecting mothers to influence their child positively before birth.
Taylor not talking about jews may or may not be good.
It is his acceptance of jew money that is the crux. That makes AMREN a jew organization, existing for jew purposes.
@Mickey Meadows: Thanks for the compliment but well meaning doesn’t come into it; it’s just another piece of Americana that you guys have forgotten. You have probably been saying the same to Jim Sinclair all the way from $270 an ounce. :-)
Theodora
American baby boys are almost always circumcised in the hospital where they are born. Supposedly it is for reasons of health and cluture.
A more basic reason is that (1) The hospitals make a little money from the small charge. Of course anchor babies get everything free. (2) It is done by interns who need to get used to handling tiny babies and cutting patients.
@Franklin Ryckaert:
Are you kidding? Comparing apples with pears? Losing an arm in an accident doesn’t interfere persé with your genetic cocktail, unless you inherited risky behaviour from your family tree. But then it’s the other way around. Then you could have lost both legs, or life. It’s not losing an arm, but the risky driving that runs in the family. In the Netherlands we have this saying: ‘een aardje naar zijn vaartje’, which means he/she has the behaviour (character?) of the father: so father, so son.
Never heard of ‘genetic inheritance patterns’? Well, in some families runs alcoholism, in other a fondness of trekking or a talent for music. Family traits may skip a generation or two, or they may flip flop within the extensive family; grandparents, parents, uncles, aunts. The genetic pool plays cleverly with all the combinations possible to get the best if you are lucky.
But this millennia long trauma inflicting of this magnitude on all the baby boys in exact the same vital period in their lives…, well, I am not a psychiatrist, but my guts tell me that it leaves a mark on the psyche of the male which he passes on to the next generation. It’s the accumulation through the generations of all the individual traumatic experiences that effects the genes: it’s like etching the pain and horror in the genetic pattern.
@Theodora:
Per Wikipedia in the US:
In 2005, about 56 percent of male newborns were circumcised prior to release from the hospital
and
Data from a national survey conducted from 1999 to 2002 found that the overall prevalence of male circumcision in the United States was 79%.[20] 91% of men born in the 1970s, and 83% of boys born in the 1980s were circumcised.[20] An earlier survey, conducted in 1992, found a circumcision prevalence of 77% in US-born men, born from 1932–1974, including 81% of non-Hispanic White men, 65% of Black men, and 54% of Hispanic men, vs. 42% of non U.S. born men who were circumcised.[2
Most White American males are circumcised.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevalence_of_circumcision#Americas
@Theodora:
Hi Theodora
You wrote:
I, too, have thought about circumcision and its relationship to mental problems such as anxiety/paranoia/aggression/etc.
I think the widespread (and probably unnecessary) practice of circumcision might help explain why so many White men (and by extension, women) in modern America have mental issues. I was circumcised, and I doubt that such an extremely traumatic, unnatural procedure can be good for a baby’s sensitive brain.
Of course Jewish medical professionals (and media) are going to try to push the idea that it is harmless and beneficial. I think they want their religious practice (of circumcision) to seem normal, so they encourage all new parents (not just Jews) to circumcise their baby boys.
=================================
@Connor McNessa:
Hi Connor
You wrote:
I’m probably not the best person to try to defend Christianity, and I’m not sure what I believe. So, instead of writing something myself, I will copy and paste something the commenter “D.K.” wrote a week or two ago.
Judaism was founded as a Near Eastern tribal religion. Although Christianity sprang from Judaism, and did so originally in Palestine, it was founded and then developed under Greco-Roman culture and Roman political administration. It is a Western religion, whereas neither Judaism nor Islam is.
In my previous comment @Richard: I wrote,
“I, too, have thought about circumcision and its relationship to mental problems.”
I meant to include the word “possible” before “relationship”, because I’m not sure that circumcision can cause mental problems — but it seems very likely to me.
I am not sure if Taylor accepts Jewish money. How would you know this anyway? I’ve never seen him state it. I just remember he stated that he and others in the movement were going to go in a different direction. Obviously, it did not work.
And, if by chance he does accept Jewish money maybe it’s because non-Jews DO NOT put their money toward organizations like Taylor’s. They’ll drive around in a $20-30k – or more – car and have all the current gadgets but sending even $10/once a year to someone like Taylor is just not going to happen. We expect others to do it. And, I have donated money or subscribe to New Century, CofCC, Politicial Cesspool, American Free Press et al. every year. There is no doubt I do need to contribute more but some contribute nothing yet expect these people to be effective with little financial support.
@Joanne Dee: I think AmRen’s philosemitism is very useful, moreover. Their Jewish associates have produced some very fine non-perishable resources, such as Steven Farron’s Affirmative Action Hoax and Michael Hart’s Understanding Human History. Let’s face it, only the very upper eschelon of white writers, such as Professor MacDonald, seem able to produce this kind of scholarship. It has to come from somewhere.
@Joanne Dee:
James Edwards of Political Cesspool has a good work ethic. I did look him up and he has a good family, wife, baby daughter and probably another kid on the way. That is very attractive to middle class and working Whites who must be the front and center of White revival and freedom.
He wrote a book, does weekly radio. He is energetic, well spoken, cordial but firm. He also reads and does his own research, and he is a little thuggish, which is a plus to defend yourself on streets.
James Edwards is not a conspiracy loon or has wild unpredictable, impulsive personality.
Another good thing is he honestly discusses Jewish ethnic warfare and Jewish power.
Such activists should be supported morally, financially $$$, and word of mouth is still king.
James, if you are reading this, we wish you well. God Bless.
What exactly does Jared Taylor gain from not naming the jew? The media still despises him, universities still ban him from speaking, his meetings still get shut down, and he’s still considered a n*zi by the masses. So what’s the point? He might as well come out with a video and say, “the jews are hostile to the interests of whites.” Very little would change if he did that. All he’d do is lose the support of the five jews who post comments on his site. Big deal.
@fender:
Exactly. I’d also like all the people who claim that they came around to serious WN through the likes of Amren how they ever heard of Amren in the first place. I had never heard of Amren until I was already reading a lot of “hardcore” stuff. Jared Taylor and Amren are not very well known outside WN. The idea that Jared Taylor has all these tentacles in the mainstream and is bringing lots of people over to our side appears to be a fiction with no basis in reality.
Jared Taylor’s primary influence is within WN. He convinces lots of people who ought to know better that openly naming the jew is a bad idea and should be avoided. The most recent Amren conference even featured Robert Weissberg as a keynote speaker, who said that even being openly racialist should be abandoned.
The major spokesmen for WN (KM, JT, DD, etc.)
ALL stick their necks out and live with risk and anxiety and confrontations on a daily basis. So, the keyboard warriors here should STFU.
@Jason Speaks:
I have read 25%, I dont know or care, as Israel is ‘where the action is’, Not in USA.
“very fine non-perishable resources, such as Steven Farron’s Affirmative Action Hoax and Michael Hart’s Understanding Human History.”
Oh dear. Unless you mean timeless examples of how Jews consciously or sub-consciously obfuscate the truth every time they bring their wisdom to the gentiles… then I’m with you.
The first guy writes a book (mostly on the College system AA) and ignores the elephant completely. The other guy, a Jewish Astrophysicist who suddenly thinks he’s Herodotus, writes on Judeo-Christian Culture and has the great idea to partition US into 3 states; white, ethinic-mixed race, black. No doubt Mr. Hart will make like Moshe and lead his people into the mixed-race state.
@fender:
Jared Taylor doesn’t gain much personally from not discussing Jews, but it probably does get information out to an audience of Whites that would otherwise tune out the message. Second, I was thrilled with MacDonald’s work, and still am. It is a fascinating body of work that shows the role Jews have played in our history.
But, a lot of pro-Whites seem to get stuck only discussing Jews. I mean almost 24 hours a day. Even this fine website, at the current time has no less than nine articles devoted to Jews on its front page. Now, that is just fine, that tends to be the focus of TOO. But it is also the focus of David Duke and tons of other pro-White outlets.
I think having organizations that talk about something other than Jews, from a pro-White perspective, is valuable. The decision to completely exclude Jew-talk is debatable, but once it is included, people tend to talk about it rather obsessively. Since they don’t want to do that, for their site, it seems reasonable.
@Lombard:
Hart belongs to the “We Jews are also White” crowd that demands inclusion in a future White ethno-state. Of course, because of their “superior intelligence” they claim key positions in the WN movement. Once that happens Jews have become again the elite of Whites and nothing has changed. Anyone who protests against it is an “anti-Semite. Same old, same old.
They’re not doing it right!
Despite jews much vaunted intelligence, and thousands of years of practice in circumcision they still, after the deed is done, throw away the wrong part! Idiots!
Regarding Jared Taylor and Amren.
His site, among others, was where I gradually lost my virginity on matters of race issues. His upfront intelligent articles on blacks, Third world immigration and so on, has led me truly ‘astray’. A transformation, where 2 + 2 no longer equals 5, contradicting the standard Western education.
It’s led me to know that organized jewry is the number one problem that Whites face. Confront it, admit it and let’s deal with it.
Back to Jared Taylor. From what I’ve read, he earns his income as a Japanese to English freelance translator and gets work from the US government
I’ve also read that the SPLC or some similar ‘neo-nazi’ jewish organization has been putting pressure on the US government to deny him further work.
So it very likely just comes down to Jared Taylor doing his ‘bit’ for Whites, acting as a ‘gateway drug’, while not going all out and becoming a martyr to the cause and his family.
Our Kmac here, rightly, doesn’t touch the holocaust lie because the jews would crucify him if his views didn’t follow the party line.
It’s called pragmatism. The enemy of the good is perfection. Let’s turn our collective White brain power to practical solutions.
On the issue of the Mantra, one guy printed it out and put it on people’s cars. One of them scanned it and posted it in a forum on reddit.com, a site in the top 50 I believe. So far he has over 2,000 responses! I’m telling you, there is power in this message, it gets to people. It makes people on the other side furious and it then it stimulates conversation on whether there is such a thing as White Genocide. All of that is to the good,
http://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/wbs80/this_was_placed_on_my_coworkers_vehicle/?limit=500
I agree with you that emotions are key, but science is also important because the Jews have our people convinced that they are not unique and that any race or mongrel population can carry on Western civilization. I have seen this in action. When talking to my moderate leftist cousin, I once told him that I think it is a good thing that if you go to England the youth will be studying Shakespeare and if you go to Russia they will be studying Tolstoy, etc. He replied that “that’s their culture and people live and die by their culture.” Of course, this shows clearly that he has not followed Jewish leftist thinking out to its logical cultural-marxist conclusions, but it also shows that he has been duped by leftist race denialism. He is not an extreme left cultural marxist; he knows that Western civilization is superior and he has an emotional attachment to it. But that is simply not enough. He believes, along with many other soft-leftist dupes, that our civilization will carry on as before with the only difference being the “complexion” of the people. JT’s race realism is desperately needed to counter this lie. All the emotional attachment in the world will be to no avail if people continue to believe that race is a social construct.
Above was meant to be a reply to fender.
@Jason Speaks:
I agree. I have seen the white genocide argument work really well. I think the reason it works is because of the pathological altruism that JT talked about the other day. White liberals really cherish their sense of moral superiority. When that is threatened, they become demonstrably anxious. You won’t win the argument with them, but you will have planted the seeds of doubt.
With some more moderate people who are not caught up in self-righteousness, you don’t really even have to use the word “genocide.” For example, I might just say “the Jews have created a culture and pursued policies that will result in the anihilation of white people in a few generations if present trends continue.” Of course, the person will respond with some sort of snide remark about conspiracy theories, but there is an easy response to this. I just say that I don’t care whether its intentional, coordinated, or planned, I only care that it is happening. Suppose a local factory is pumping out some horrible pollutant that will kill the whole neighborhood in five years. The factory owner may say he is just trying to make a profit or provide a good or service and is not actually trying to kill anyone. Notice this is absolutely irrelevant from the point of view of the neighbors. They will be dead either way. Issues of mental state, intention, or conspiracy matter a great deal when it comes to criminal punishment for homicide, but they are almost irrelevant to the victim, who is dead regardless of whether the homicide was intentional, reckless, negligent, justified or accidental.
@fender:
I agree with you that emotions are key, but science is also important because the Jews have our people convinced that they are not unique and that any race or mongrel population can carry on Western civilization. I have seen this in action. When talking to my moderate leftist cousin, I once told him that I think it is a good thing that if you go to England the youth will be studying Shakespeare and if you go to Russia they will be studying Tolstoy, etc. He replied that “that’s their culture and people live and die by their culture.” Of course, this shows clearly that he has not followed Jewish leftist thinking out to its logical cultural-marxist conclusions, but it also shows that he has been duped by leftist race denialism. He is not an extreme left cultural marxist; he knows that Western civilization is superior and he has an emotional attachment to it. But that is simply not enough. He believes, along with many other soft-leftist dupes, that our civilization will carry on as before with the only difference being the “complexion” of the people. JT’s race realism is desperately needed to counter this lie. All the emotional attachment in the world will be to no avail if people continue to believe that race is a social construct.
@fender:
Whites want leadership, huh?
I would say that Jared Taylor has provided us with an excellent example of leadership – doing research, publishing magazines, putting on national conferences and making TV appearances. In fact, THE VERY REASON I AM HERE is because I saw Jared Taylor on Donahue years ago and his brazen and truthful approach to race woke me up and caused me to seek out new reading (like Kevin MacDonald.)
For those who haven’t seen it, here is the Donahue interview I saw years ago. Watch it and you’ll see a man who is stepping out on national TV and putting his reputation on the line for the good of our race. If that’s not leadership, I don’t know what is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49gp3NLWkVU
@katana:
WEll SAID!
@Random: I heard of Jared Taylor first – before any “hardcore stuff” as you say.
In early 2000′s I was becoming increasingly concerned about non-white immigration but didn’t quite know how to address the issue. Then I saw Jared Taylor on Donahue and he blew me away. He gave me the courage to seek out more knowledge, which eventually led me to Kmac.
Here is the interview I saw –
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49gp3NLWkVU
@Dane Wise: /AMEN TO THAT BROTHER!
@Jenko:
AR has been printed with willful evasion of copyright assertion that thus permits a good bit of what we thus
far in America refrain from characterizing as “Samizdat
USA” publication. But from some acquaitance via a relative with the fruits of some AR “samizdat” distribution–there is
a very interesting question of how we know what Taylor has
accomplished. There is every indication of a very widespread discreet “pass along” readership. There are quite a number of first and second-tier campus settings in which printed
compilations of AR articles circulate. Taken together, they
make excellent, excellent introductions for undergrads and others who see beyond the PC spoon feeding about race and allied topics. As was said about THE BELL CURVE twenty years ago (nearly) , “there’s a helluva lot of whispering going
on”. Taylor’s adherence to high standards of traditional civility will emerge as an enormous contributing factor. Ms.
Teller’s comments in this strand here about the importance of civility ought to be underscored in this context.
I’d also like all the people who claim that they came around to serious WN through the likes of Amren how they ever heard of Amren in the first place
I heard about AMREN from ad placed in a jew publication- David Horowitz’s monthly- Heterodoxy. (1999) (Four years before I became fully conscious).
Now thats like the Mountain going to Mohamed rather than the other way around or like the tail waging the dog. But then is not it about time to acknowledge as to who rules the US of A?
JERUSALEM, July 11, 2012. — The United States Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney plans to lay out his vision of the future Middle East during his upcoming visit to Israel.
Israeli Prime Minister’s office sources on Wednesday confirmed the visit to Xinhua, but could not authorize the exact dates, although Romney plans to hold a 60,000 USD-a-plate fundraiser in Jerusalem on July 29, according to local media.
The fundraiser, which Republican sources described as a “small meeting and a big fundraiser,” will include delegates from the U.S. , and local supporters.
After the fundraiser, Romney will speak at a Jerusalem conference where he will lay out his Middle East policy, if he wins the November election.
The visit comes at a crucial period for Romney, and could help shore up support among Jewish voters, although his supporters say more and more Jews are defecting from the Democratic camp and President Barack Obama.
This will be Romney’s fourth trip to Israel. Obama had also traveled to Israel prior to the 2008 presidential election.
@katana:
I doubt KMac avoids holocaust debate for fear of Jews. He is an academic and trained in evolutionary Psychology.
Holocaust research is not part of his expertise. Thats why.
@ConnorMcNessa,
Obviously you are not conversant with “Identity” . No one, to the best of my knowledge, ‘wants to be mideastern’. The whole point is the FACT that the Biblical Israelite was a white person, and we are their literal, physical descendants. Adam, a separate creation from ‘man’ [homo sapien] in Chapter 1, was indeed ‘Caucasian’ – we are given hints to that fact in Scripture. Furthermore, we are told of the physical characteristics of certain people, including David, which describe a white person. When coupled with the characteristics of the true chosen race that are enumerated, the fact that the white race is being described cannot be honestly denied.
When our people wake up to these facts, reclaim their heritage and return to their Christian ethic, then we will solve the problems we now face. The bible itself tells us that we will ‘lose our identity’; it also tells us that after that happens and we turn our back on God, that we will become slaves in our own land, we will become bankrupt, we will lose our health, as well as our children, that foreigners will eat / take the fruits of our labour, etc etc etc. In other words, it describes the exact situation we now find ourselves in as a people.
@ted smith:
Thanks for your support. I understand the anger of the young, and all reformer tend to be purists, but it is vital that we put the good of our own people first. It is clear to me that Amren and Mr. Taylor accomplished more good by being banned from hotels in the South than the conference itself would have done. Our first and loudest demand should be for equality before the law. That would mean the end of all affirmative action.
@katana:
“Our Kmac here, rightly, doesn’t touch the holocaust lie because the jews would crucify him if his views didn’t follow the party line.”
I don’t think that’s it because as a tenured professor, they can’t do anything to him no matter what he says. He may not directly address the “holocaust” issue but he has talked explicitly about jewish self-deception and their need to believe that they’ve been perpetual victims in their history, even if the claims of victimhood aren’t true.
@john7:
Preconditions for Whites to be able to believe in the mistaken ideas of British Israelism or Christian Identity are :
1) A lack of knowledge of the anthropology and history of Europe and the Middle East.
2) A naive fascination with Biblical ideas without the benefit of the knowledge of Higher Criticism of the Bible in particular and comparative religion in general.
3) A not too high intelligence.
One wouldn’t expect people with such a background on this “high brow” forum, but alas they keep on coming. Reasoning with such people seems totally impossible.
@omop: Ah, $65,000.00 a plate dinner in Jerusalem on July 29 for Rommney…
I will bet that of the “few” that attend will be from the looter tribe, er family that the Icelander and ex-President Geir Haar, had married into, that is his wife’s family, a very wealthy jewelry and land holders of old Jerusalem, Dorrit Moussaieff who’s ancestors proudly admit, were makers of fine woven robes for the master looter, Genghis Khan. According to Wiki, Dorrit Moussaieff’s proudly states that her father is a Bukharian Jew from Ibekisan and her mother an Ashkenazi Jew from Austria. So, the Jewish Icelandic Pres and his wife have been deposed, but I would wager, that they will not forget, nor should the Icelanders! No wonder the Icelanders are angry.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorrit_Moussaieff
globheu.blogspot.com/2009/01/financial-crisis-swhile-iceland-slept.html
@torgrim: Correction; The husband of Dorrit Moussaieff is, the president of Iceland, Olufr Ragnar Grimsson. The Prime Minister that has been deposed is Geir Haarde, who just happens to be Jewish also. My mistake.
I want to clarify something I wrote yesterday @Richard:
I forgot to add that I used to have mental problems. And I wonder if that is related to circumcision.
From a young age, probably as far back as I can remember, I had a significant amount of anxiety, a sense that I’m not safe in this world.
(Which seems to be something that a lot of Jews feel.)
My parents were relatively good and loving. But I didn’t feel safe. That anxious feeling lasted for many years, probably until only relatively recently.
This comment is not an attempt to attract sympathy or pity. Thankfully I’m much better now. Chastity (of body and mind) and sobriety and a desire to know/serve God — I think these things have been integral to my improvement. And probably many other people and things deserve credit.
Anyway, my point in mentioning my past mental problems is that I think it is likely that circumcision does play a role in the way Jews (and circumcised non-Jews) think/behave.
@JustaWhiteMom:
Great answer to the “conspiracy theory” charge. The truth is, it is happening to every single White country on earth, either by accident or design, and it should be exposed. Your example of the factory is a good one. When trying to introduce all these concepts to the general public, it is important not to overload them with too much immediately.
If we can just get the idea out there that Whites are in danger of losing every single country they have, that will be sufficient to get the ball rolling – the rest will follow. I understand that for many, the term genocide sounds too extreme (it did to me at first), however a few points.
1. This is how the UN Treaty of Genocide from 1948 defines it. We are using a legal definition under international law. It’s not that we expect the UN to help us, rather it is an excellent talking point that Anti-Whites cannot dispute.
2. The term genocide implies the existence of races. This short circuits the silly, “there are no races” arguments, or “race is just a social construct”. If they say that, tell them they are saying genocide is impossible.
3. It takes rather striking language to get the public’s attention. Reagan called the Soviet Union the Evil Empire. They were furious as were Leftists in the US. He didn’t call them them the “Russian Empire” or the “Aggressive Empire”. That wouldn’t work. You had to utterly discredit them and remove ANY moral standing for their side.
Genocide is a strong term, yet if every single African country and ONLY African countries were being flooded with non-Africans at a rate that would destroy any African majority in the next 50 years, what else would we call it? And it gets attention. Anti-Whites feel compelled to respond.
If they don’t respond, we win. If they do, we win.
@TyronRobertParsons: Yes indeed. Noah never existed. He/It is pure myth, but as you correctly imply, the flood story is indeed based on a real event.
And the case for creation … genetic intervention by extraterrestrial aliens … has already been proven (more or less). It is just that the findings are being blocked from entering the mainstream. To allow them in would quickly overturn just about everything we assume to be true today. For example, the Vatican would likely collapse within a week. And the negative consequences for the international ‘Jewish’ Usury system would be equally profound.
From memory — I have no time to go re-checking my past research — there exist (something like) 200 independent flood myths from around the world (authored by native cultures).
It can also be readily shown that the entire Torah has been plagiarized from several different sources, including Hammurabi of Babylonia, before being stitched together. The entire ‘Jewish’ story is a fraud; and the symbolism it shamelessly employs dates back even further than recorded history. In other words, that too has been plagiarized from long forgotten civilizations, including the possibility of a carry over from pre-flood days. That is to say, there may have been several Atlantis civilizations dotted around the pre-flood globe, and some records / some knowledge survived the cataclysm.
The most obvious super-ancient (pre-flood) symbol now adorns the Israeli flag.
Also, stone artefacts have recently been found buried deep in Southern Africa that appear to have inscribed on them, a symbolic map of one of Saturn’s moons (as confirmed by images returned by one of NASA’s deep space probes). It is not just one stone artefact (which could have been dismissed as a fluke) there are at least two, with perhaps more yet to be found.
Those who put the laughingly entitled “Star of David” on that flag have presumably long known things about ancient history that we here are only now just beginning to understand.
@Anglo Saxon:
The Vatican has survived already so many scientific discoveries that belied its beliefs, it would survive this one too. Think of Galilei and all modern science since. Neither have “scandals” proved to be fatal to the Church. Mundus vult decipi. That’s why.
As for the universal presence of Flood stories around the world, that could indicate a flood at the end of the last Ice Age ( ca. 8000 BC ) when a gigantic lake on the ice sheet in North America ( the socalled Wisconsin Glaciation ) suddenly found an open passage to the sea, causing a world wide flood. Even Australian Aborigines have Flood stories, which now become understandable.
As for genetic intervention by extraterrestrials, could you please direct us to some more information on that?
Finally, the Torah is a combination of myth, legend, exaggerations, nationalistic propaganda and some facts, just like the “Holocaust”.
@Franklin Ryckaert:
INTERVENTION THEORY
He is not the only one, there are others … but Lloyd Pye is one of the most articulate and well-informed: http://lloydpye.com/
Check YouTube® also.
@Anglo Saxon:
Thanks for the tip. I have bookmarked him and I will study it.
@Anglo Saxon: @Franklin Ryckaert:
Oh thank you for the low IQ junk science links. This is above most of the pure re-tard crap you usually contaminate the site with.
Star people from outer space is breeding with us!! I done read it in a real life science book!!
Now, let me tell you about the US being a corporation see …me and my useless drinking buddies talk it over a lot …
@Jason Speaks:
As long as you still firmly believe in the official 9/11 fairy tale, I don’t have much esteem for your kind of “realism”. Keeping an open mind to explore even exotic theories might lead to real discoveries. And yes, sometimes you run the risk to read some nonsense in the process.
@TyronRobertParsons:
Thank you for admiting you’re a fool. My holiday in Tahoe was awesome. Visited with family and friends… ;)
@Franklin Ryckaert:
Preconditions for Whites to be able to not believe in any of the claims within the ideas of British Israelism or Christian Identity are :
1. They are completely biblically illiterate.
2. They are blind to the facts of creation due to willful ignorance or because they are not being exposed to the scientific proofs that support these truths.
3. They are fake Jew trolls pretending to be whites in order to discredit the truth which will trumph over the “Jews” in the end.
@TyronRobertParsons:
1) Being “Biblically literate” can mean two things : 1) Knowing much about the Bible but understanding little ( due to naive “faith”), 2) Knowing much about the Bible and understanding much ( due to critical thinking). I leave it to you to figure out to which camp each of us belongs.
2) “Facts” of creation don’t exist, faith in creation does.
3) Your paranoid idea that Jews try to suppress the “truth” of CI is pathetic. They find the whole idea only ridiculous. At most some may be concerned that CI might lead to anti-Semitism just like substitute theology did.
You still have not narrated how nice your holiday inside the Hollow Earth was.
That might cause us to doubt the whole idea!
Whites are their OWN worst enemy….(Not Jews!)
Who is more dangerous, the enemy in your face or the enemy behind you???
For fifty years I have watched so-called WNs scream and whine about Jews all the while stabbing each other in the back.
Case in point; At a large Clan rally in west texas years ago a van load of skin-heads rolled up, Swastikas and rebel flags flpping in the wind… (they had come all the way from california) Well, the Grand Dragon, one Micheal Lowe, asked them to remove their Swastikas…This is on private property way out in the country. No uninvited guests allowed, no media, etc. After a few minutes the kids headed back to California..Swastikas still flying.
I asked Michael why Swastikas were barred. He replied…get this…THEY GIVE THE CLAN A BAD IMAGE!!!!!!
I know this man well. A hard-core WN with a proven record of service. But this knee-jerk reaction based on political correctness and group politics caused me to quit and I have never looked back.
The back stabbing, the pure paranoia, the religious and conspiracy wackos, not to mention the paid FBI informers
and undercover reporters in all WN groups is mind-boggling.
If today every jew in the world dropped dead from some kind of genetic disease. What the hell would you do then?? Jump off a bridge?? You would still be saddled with the same system that allowed them to take over in the first place. What about that?
In all my years observing this stuff I have only once or twice seen the finger pointed at the Bill Clinton’s LBJ’s, Larry Flynt’s etc. except as VICTIMS OF THE JEWS!!
Here’s a clue….Larry Flynt is no victim….YOU ARE!!!
@Franklin
You say:
“1) Being “Biblically literate” can mean two things : 1) Knowing much about the Bible but understanding little ( due to naive “faith”), 2) Knowing much about the Bible and understanding much ( due to critical thinking). I leave it to you to figure out to which camp each of us belongs.”
Answer:
Believers in Evolution have their belief based upon faith and much more faith than creationists need due to the massive amounts of evidence to support our biblical creationist views.
You say:
“2) “Facts” of creation don’t exist, faith in creation does.”
Answer:
Faith is a requirement for both creationist or evolutionist views. None of us where there so e must rely upon man made theories or biblical statements supported by evidence that is purported to back up either one. The facts are, the evidence supports biblical creation not evolution (belief that we came from a soup of rocks and water later born of monkeys-something I still do not rule out for you but for myself- I reject.) Please review the links I have provided-something fair minded investigators will do.
You said:
“3) Your paranoid idea that Jews try to suppress the “truth” of CI is pathetic. They find the whole idea only ridiculous. At most some may be concerned that CI might lead to anti-Semitism just like substitute theology did.”
Answer:
Yea right and that is why of all Christian belief system’s CI is considered the most dangerous, even outright “terrorist” by the “Jews” who control the UNITED STATES Corporation. Why? Because it does three major things. 1. It exposes their fake identity stealing status for exactly what it is- a lie.2. It explain exactly who they really are both physically and spiritually.3. It correctly identifies the real heirs to the dominion and fruitfulness mandates- the real physical and spiritual Shemites from Abraham, Isaac and Jacob- Europeans-Christians.
In short, it prophesies correctly their doomed status and the real winners in the end.
You said:
“You still have not narrated how nice your holiday inside the Hollow Earth was.”
Answer:
Lake Tahoe, FYI is upon the earth’s surface. Still can’t stop the “Jewish” tactic of demonizing for lack of intelligent retort ayy??
@Anglo Saxon:
For those who doubt the biblical narrative please review these two links.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sC79v33Nu8Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szBTl3S24MY
@TyronRobertParsons:
Christian Identity is considered dangerous by the Jews only because it is anti-Semitic and terroristic, not because they “fear the truth” of its idiotic identity beliefs. See the ADL website on CI.
The Bible is a primitive, superstitious document only interesting for cultural-historical reasons. The Biblical “god” is a petty tribal deity with unpleasantly demonic traits of character, the group projection of a Middle Eastern bandit tribe.
The universe is immensely big, if it has a deity , he would not be interested in our insignificant planet, let alone in a small criminal tribe on it.
For the rest, it seems useless to discuss rationality with irrational people.
@henry baxley:
“If today every jew in the world dropped dead from some kind of genetic disease. What the hell would you do then?? Jump off a bridge?? You would still be saddled with the same system that allowed them to take over in the first place. What about that?”
There would still be problems, but without the international jew propping up self-hating Whites in high positions in all White societies, the left would quickly die out.
@Franklin Ryckaert:
You said:
“See the ADL website on CI.”
Answer:
How stupid could one get? yea, ok, I am going to trust proven pathological liars when they put down any type of CI beliefs when CI beliefs expose these fakes for who they really are while also showing who the real Israelites and Judaites are- something which completely demolishes every single pretense of a justification they use to do what they are doing while also stopping us from ultilizing the true identity and role that is actually divinely ours and not theirs. Sheesh…talk about FOOLISH and placing one’s faith in the wrong place….LOL
As to the rest of your claptrap- address the proofs given in those videos. Oh wait…thats right…YOU CAN’T! You will be held accountable Franklin- rest assured.
@TyronRobertParsons:
Accountable by Yahweh? Should I be afraid?
@Franklin Ryckaert:
YAHWEH??? humm…interesting choice of words Franklin. I will say this…in echoing scriptures ordained and directed by the creator and savior of what is everywhere…the beginning of wisdom is of fear, or due respect of that one who can destroy both your body AND your soul. While man and Satan only have part of this power, the creator/savior can do both to whom ever he pleases. So, should you fear? I would fear the author of life and creation as much and more than a pup would and should fear its human master. You are arrogent Franklin. You are smart yet you’re a freakin idiot. If truth was actually your master, you would see how wretched you really are, just as I see how wretched I really am and from this knowledge I gain strength in the knowledge that yet and in spite of this, my creator, my savior, loves me because he know my faults as I admit them as much as he knows both my potential and actions I do on his behalf. You, franklin, do as thou wilt. As for me, I will continue to admit my failures as I seek to become perfect- looking forward to the day that my creator grants me my prize- something I have absolutely no right to claim credit for…as a free gift. you would be wise to do the same and follow the truth no matter where it leads you because it is that absolute truth that will trumph in the end.
@fender:
I think that is a worthy throught which gives more power to the notion of what is really going to happen- coming up-Fender.
@TyronRobertParsons:
Did it ever occur to you that nearly all peoples of the world have imagined their own gods in different forms and that they all cannot possibly true at the same time? That it therefore must mean at least that all minus one must be false? That there is no real reason to suppose that even one is true since all are clearly PROJECTIONS of limited minds? That JAHWEH, that petty, cruel, demonic tribal deity of the Jews can claim no more autenticity than all the other “gods” of the world? That you only happen to believe in that special projection because you were born in a country where Christianity, a sect developed from that tribal Jewish religion, is dominant? If you have the ability to see through illusions and to self-relativate, Jahweh doesn’t impress very much. Threats with the “wrath of Jahweh” don’t impress more than threats with the wrath of Santa Claus, or do you perhaps believe also in him?
The most rational and thought provoking comment FR I have read on this topic. As some of my people would state Bravo.
@fender:
You say; (paraphase)
“Without the jew propping up the left, it would quickly die out”
I say; Without the predominatly white liberal establishment propping up the Jews, they would quickly die out.
I wish you were right, but the historical evidence just doesn’t support the premise that liberal philosophy is a product of Jewish support. On the contrary, it has always been and continues to be rich bleeding heart liberal Gentiles who have championed the causes of out groups against the interests of poor whites.
Thus, you have the liberal establishment supporting war against the south in the so-called CIVIL WAR in the person of Christian gentiles like Harriet Beecher Stowe, John Brown, Abe Lincoln, etc. And the same in WWII with FDR slobbering at the mouth for war long before Pearl Harbor. Certainly by this time there was much Jewish influence in american politics but that doesnt explain the Civil War. Also it doesn’t explain Larry flynt (gentile first-born child “big brother”)
Born in poverty and raised by a single mother, nobody propped him up, he clawed his way to the top of the porn industry by sheer greed, ruthlessness, and the absolute lack of any other guiding principle other than SELF!…His own daughter accussed him of molesting her and he has been married five times. But I never hear his name mentioned in WN disscussions of Porn. It’s always (and exclusively) the Jews.
But lets assume that Flynt WAS a jew and introduced porn in the U.S……WHO BUYS IT???
I read a statistic somewhere that more than fifty % of the readership of Hustler magazine were CHRISTIAN MEN.
So, I must respectfully dissagree with the premise that the left is propped up by Jews. Jews don’t prop up gentiles, they try to tear them down. but it is the left AND the right elites who prop up the tribe at the expense of their own.
@Franklin Ryckaert:
Has it ever occured to you that when one actually understands scriptures (something you obviously don’t) it becomes plainly evident that it’s claims are true and this because it matches what is ALREADY known inside one’s self if they are of those who are and were created to be the central characters of it’s narrative?
Did it ever occure to you that just because there are a bunch of false Gods, this fact does not negate the fact that all things, including all life, have one source?
Has it ever dawned on you that you have it exactly backwards, that since we are created/designed beings, that we are a projection of our creator and not the other way around?
Since no one can dispute that there is both evil and good, this fact alone shows that evil has a creator even though it’s creator is a created being itself and that it’s character is such that is always promotes confusion, lies and hate -not love truth and order?
You sit and debate scriptures with me and you don’t have a CLUE of what they really are or what they really claim.You parrot the EXACT same crap as the so called “Jews” WHO BTW are almost all ATHIESTIC like YOU.
I would go as far as to state I would bet almost anything you have never even read the OT, much less the NT- and here you sit, judging things you have never taken the time to investigate yourself. ASSININE!
For the last time you mental midget, the so called “Jews” are NOT Judah or Israel – the central people of the bible. They admit in their own writings, encyclopedias etc, that they are NOT these people and while they do this, they NEVER broadcast this info but attack people like me for exposing them.The same stupid sh-t you are doing to me.
Since there is obviously evil and good, would it not make sense of evil to try and mimic good by stealing good’s identity? The “Jews” are anti Christs…end of story and neither are they Judah or Israel of the bible. Stop supporting thee fake “Jews” claims they use for the justification of all their nefarious needs-unless of course you want to go on record as their ADVOCATE-something I think any bonehead should be able to see by now.
So last time dingbat- GO AND READ THE SCRIPTURES FIRST-STUDY THEM- and THEN come and try to lecture me on what you think you know. Only a freakin retard would try to lecture another about war and peace having not read it. What makes you think this same principal does not apply to you when you try to lecture me pertaining scriptures?
@Anglo Saxon:
I have just stumbled upon an old History Channel program on a related topic, which allows me to correct my earlier estimate.
An academic interviewed during the course of that programme stated:
“archeologists are aware of the existence of 2,000 flood myths from around the world …”
Noah? Adam? Abraham? Don’t make me laugh! Enough of this childish nonsense.
The entire Tanakh (Old Testament or Hebrew Scripture) is a plagiarized fraud, and should be removed from our culture and society, forthwith.
Germany (the Third Reich) under AH and the NSDAP had the correct philosophical solution. Something all North European countries would do well to resuscitate and emulate.
@TyronRobertParsons:
If all things have one source, a creator and we are the projection of that creator, how do we get to know that creator? Either that creator “reveals” himself to us or we “discover” that creator ourselves. Either way, how can we be sure that people who claim to have knowledge of that creator are not victims of hallucinations or are only speculating or even lying? If we study the various “gods” of all peoples we quickly come to the conclusion that we are dealing here with mental projections, reflecting the cultural stage and the particular character of the people concerned. Primitive peoples imagine primitive gods, cruel peoples imagine cruel gods etc.
Jahweh is by no means more convincing than the gods of other peoples, nor is he in any way “better”, in fact I find him worse. The cruelty and malice of this deity is absolutely repellent. Besides, he has some ridiculously primitive traits such as “descending” on a mountain which trembles and emits smoke and fire, his need to be “transported” in a portable ark and finally a temple to “settle” in and where he needs daily bloody animal sacrifices of cows, sheep, goats, pigeons etc. Jahweh is emotionally instable having fits of anger, jealousy, remorse etc. He is clearly a tribal deity, fighting for his own tribe against other tribes with their gods, urging his chosen people to commit outrageous crimes such as the genocide of the Kanaanites. If this product of a primitive and cruel imagination would really be the “cosmic source of all life” we would be in a dire situation indeed.
Once you have seen through this Jahweh as primitive imagination, the fascination with his socalled “chosen people” also stops. What would I care whether the present Jews are really the descendants of the Biblical Israelites or not? If Jahweh is nonsense, so is the “chosenness” of his people. And I don’t need impossible constructions such as the idea that the ancestors of all Europeans, who are around already for 35,000 years, are the descendants of some stray Israelite tribes who left Palestine 722 BC, merely to have a sense of self worth.
If you do some study of comparative religion and some critical study of the Bible itself you would be able to liberate yourself from your narrow minded fascination with both Jahweh and his “chosen” people.
For comparative religion I can recommend Patterns in Comparative Religion, by Mircea Eliade, and for a good introduction to a critique of the Bible ( both OT and NT ), go to secular web, www. infidels.org/, Library, Historical Library, Authors Index, Wheless, Joseph, Is it God’s Word?, which will cause you to lose faith in all Biblical nonsense for good.
But I don’t hold my breath since you seem not to be receptive to rational arguments.
@ Franklin Ryckaert.
Its almost impossible to expect a sense of “rationalism” from a committed believer believing that a human being is able to “part” a sea. I repeat what I already said in a previous comment. Bravo.
AngloSaxon:
You admit that all ancient societies and peoples speak of a worldwide flood yet you demand that he was and is not Noah. Every one of those ancient societies speak of a man coupled with his wife and extended family that survived this food and each claim some type of lineage(obviously) to this group of 8 people as well as having a name or names for these people whereas whites call him Noah.
National Socialism was and is a mirror copy of Jewish Zionism but a program in reverse designed by the “Jews” for Germanic peoples. While NS may not have been as cruel and ruthless as the “Jews”, the elite within NS were controlled by the “Jews”. You are still in their matrix AngloSaxon and your desire to exterminate the white mans ancient history (the people of Adam, Seth, Noah,Shem, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob- the 12 tribes of whites who make up the white/European peoples of the planet in all four corners) is very “JEWISH” in nature. Time to rethink your position fellow white man!
AngloSaxon:
Another thing- if you did not notice, NS LOST! (Yet I believe they still have a remnant in remote places that will play a part in the last battle to come.) Hence, it behooves us to LEARN from our mistakes not emulate them so as to achieve the same results as before.
omop:
See? this is the kind of stupidity I am talking about. Had you even READ the OT you would see that Moses DID NOT part the Red Sea. It was the Creator/Savior who did FOR Moses and his people (Moses, the racially awakened white man who sought to save his ethnic kin from a Genocide JUST LIKE WE FACE TODAY).
Sheesh
@Franklin:
Part one:
You said
If all things have one source, a creator and we are the projection of that creator, how do we get to know that creator?
Answer:
Simple, by knowing the truth (also known as Jesus Christ who is in our DNA, spirit, soul) i.e.: our good, which is inside ourselves and by denying the evil that resides within your flesh due to your fallen state from its previous superior state. It is in the quest to regain your previous state.
You said:
Either that creator “reveals” himself to us or we “discover” that creator ourselves. Either way, how can we be sure that people who claim to have knowledge of that creator are not victims of hallucinations or are only speculating or even lying?
Answer:
The solution was already given above
You said:
If we study the various “gods” of all peoples we quickly come to the conclusion that we are dealing here with mental projections, reflecting the cultural stage and the particular character of the people concerned. Primitive peoples imagine primitive gods, cruel peoples imagine cruel gods etc.
Answer:
If you studied scriptures, something you REFUSE TO DO while continuing to try and lecture me on its contents, you would see the superior, truthful, correct, good and triumphant claims as the ONLY way. Not one of those so called God’s (projections of the fallen one’s into the consciousness of their victims) make the claim of being the ONLY way, truth and the life. They are always about multiple paths “truths” for humanity. Much like multiculturalism they proclaim one linking philosophy: any way BUT the God of the OT and NT, Jesus Christ- just as Judaism- Talmudism does with all of its outward expressions-Top-Down authority structure, Communism, NS, Corporatism/”Capitalism”, Oligarchies, Fascism etc.
You said:
Jahweh is by no means more convincing than the gods of other peoples, nor is he in any way “better”, in fact I find him worse.
Answer:
Again, you parrot the JEWISH Marxist media and academic line not having STUDIED its contents yourself.
You said:
The cruelty and malice of this deity is absolutely repellent. Besides, he has some ridiculously primitive traits such as “descending” on a mountain which trembles and emits smoke and fire, his need to be “transported” in a portable ark and finally a temple to “settle” in and where he needs daily bloody animal sacrifices of cows, sheep, goats, pigeons etc.
Answer:
FYI, the creator/savior was dealing with a fallen and primitive people(s) of the earth and the world who all accepted cruel and repellent ways of life. As a goo father does, he takes into consideration of infant ways of his creation as he leads them to superior ways expressed in his physical coming as Jesus Christ. I challenge you to show ANY OF US one cruel or repellent way of Jesus Christ!!
You said:
Jahweh is emotionally instable having fits of anger, jealousy, remorse etc.
Answer:
Just as a good father does to motivate his young children into better behavior- theatrics.
You said:
He is clearly a tribal deity, fighting for his own tribe against other tribes with their gods,
Answer:
And this Franklin while you fight for the white man against the “Jew”?
You said
urging his chosen people to commit outrageous crimes such as the genocide of the Kanaanites.
Answer:
You biblically illiterate dunce! The Cannanites where the “Jews” later and their genetics where mixed with the fallen ones (angels/aliens) so as to pollute the whole human race(s).
You said:
If this product of a primitive and cruel imagination would really be the “cosmic source of all life” we would be in a dire situation indeed.
Answer:
The creator has the right to do with his creation as he pleases; or do you believe you don’t have the right to do with what you create how you please?
Part two will address the rest of your claptrap.
@TyronRobertParsons:
Obviously you are so childish as to believe any fairy-tale of the Bible.
Here is another silly story for you to believe in :
Joshua 10 : 11/14.
Who wouldn’t have faith in a LORD who can work such miracles?
Franklin:
Franklin:
Part two
As the Creator/Savior said to Job..
Job 38
King James Version (KJV)
38 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
8 Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?
9 When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it,
10 And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors,
11 And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?
12 Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; and caused the dayspring to know his place;
13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?
14 It is turned as clay to the seal; and they stand as a garment.
15 And from the wicked their light is withholden, and the high arm shall be broken.
16 Hast thou entered into the springs of the sea? or hast thou walked in the search of the depth?
17 Have the gates of death been opened unto thee? or hast thou seen the doors of the shadow of death?
18 Hast thou perceived the breadth of the earth? declare if thou knowest it all.
19 Where is the way where light dwelleth? and as for darkness, where is the place thereof,
20 That thou shouldest take it to the bound thereof, and that thou shouldest know the paths to the house thereof?
Franklin:
21 He paweth in the valley, and rejoiceth in his strength: he goeth on to meet the armed men.
22 He mocketh at fear, and is not affrighted; neither turneth he back from the sword.
23 The quiver rattleth against him, the glittering spear and the shield.
24 He swalloweth the ground with fierceness and rage: neither believeth he that it is the sound of the trumpet.
25 He saith among the trumpets, Ha, ha; and he smelleth the battle afar off, the thunder of the captains, and the shouting.
26 Doth the hawk fly by thy wisdom, and stretch her wings toward the south?
27 Doth the eagle mount up at thy command, and make her nest on high?
28 She dwelleth and abideth on the rock, upon the crag of the rock, and the strong place.
29 From thence she seeketh the prey, and her eyes behold afar off.
30 Her young ones also suck up blood: and where the slain are, there is she.
40 Moreover the Lord answered Job, and said,
2 Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? he that reproveth God, let him answer it.
Reply!
Franklin.
As to your claim about Joshua and how the creator of the entire universe could never have the power in which to stop the earths rotation for a 24 hour period- I present this link in rebuttle.
http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/j/joshuaday.htm
@TyronRobertParsons:
First I was confident that the silly story of stopping the sun and the moon in the book of Joshua would be too much for you, but then I thought you probably would try to find a “scientific” explanation even for that. And you didn’t disappoint us! NASA found a “missing day” confirming the story in the book of Joshua, or so you thought. But you didn’t read the article well before you provided a link to it. NASA has denied that a certain Harold Hill, the originator of this story, ever was one of its consultants and it denies that it found a “missing day” in the movement of the earth. The story is called “fiction” by the website itself.
May the wrath of Jahweh consume you for this fault!
As for the lengthy quotes from the book of Job, obviously meant to impress me with the “glory” of almighty Jahweh, these passages clearly show the faulty cosmology of the Bible, with its flat earth and the dome of heaven above, where this deity sits on his throne manipulating the winds and the weather. Very impressive for an ancient Israelite, but charmingly naive for us modern men.
For more on the faulty Biblical cosmology, see Biblical Cosmology, Wikipedia, and The Flat Earth Bible, by Robert J. Schadewald.
But I am afraid that information will be lost to you, worshipper of Jahweh, Lord-of-the-flat-earth, that you are.
@TyronRobertParsons: I don’t ‘demand’ anything Tyron. I am not as arrogant as some who post ubiquitous comments here at this TOO website.
All tales of the Hebrews are fictional, but are inevitably based upon a smidgen of facts.
The “Habiru” was the name originally given to bandits who once troubled the very area you blindly believe is the rightful home of the Hebrews (Habiru!) and thus the ‘Jews’. The word ‘Jew’ was actually created by a translation error. It has no basis in real history. Ergo, Jesus was not a ‘Jew’. Period.
The world did NOT begin as described by the infantile writings of the Old Testament. The ancient (possibly pre-flood) remains of Gobekli Tepe, now in southern Turkey (i.e., once known as upper Mesopotamia), prove that beyond any shadow of a doubt. Read this article:
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history-archaeology/gobekli-tepe.html
Israel is the creation of the Rothschild dynasty, who continue to sponsor it indirectly, via the Federal Reserve System, and the illegal IRS. No American citizen is constitutionally bound to pay the Federal Income Tax.
Israel is the operational base of a vast organized crime network that acts on behalf of the International Banking Syndicate to which the Rothschilds belong. All those black hats and wall wailers are nothing but pantomime for the insane.
What most people term “Judaism” is in practise Saturn worship at best, and devil (Satan) worship at worst.
Before 20 more years have passed, Judaism will have been wiped out and its temples demolished. Christianity will be seen for what it is: the pacification of the mind and spirit so that those who follow it may live like obedient Sheep under their Talmudic ‘masters’.
The mass murder of my Germanic people WILL be mercilessly avenged, as they were in Teutoburg forest.
Have I answered your questions deeply enough for you to understand clearly?
@Franklin Ryckaert:
No Franklin- he does not deny it. There are conflicting reports since Mr. Hill first reported it, one of which is that NASA now denies his involvment in the project to which he cites. This is no suprise to me or others, but to you- one who believes the anti Christ “authorities” as the ministry of “truth”- you take their side.
You said:
“May the wrath of Jahweh consume you for this fault!”
Answer:
My the Lord have mercy upon you and open your eyes and forgive you.
As to the portion claiming falsely again that the bible says the world is flat, as you know I already showed you where it called the earth a sphere hanging by nothing. My purpose in quoting that passage was to try and get you to relize yet again that you are a FOOL for trying to reprove the Lord because after all, you claim things all day long as fact, when you were never there to witness them which is against the first rule of science- the practice you claim to uphold.
@Anglo Saxon:
You said:
“I don’t ‘demand’ anything Tyron. I am not as arrogant as some who post ubiquitous comments here at this TOO website.”
Answer:
Post where I demanded of you
You said:
“Jesus was not a Jew”
Answer:
Correct. Jesus was a Judaite from both the tribe of Judah and Levi- the house of David lineage- true hier to the Kingdom the fake “Jews” had usurped by way of infiltrating Judah around 125 BC when Judah conqured Esau and absorbed them. They then went about and persecuted the real ethnic Judaites because they looked a little like them as “whites”- but this is because they are from Esau, not Jacob. Herod, FYI was a edomite from Esau. Like I keep trying to tell you- the so called Jews are imposters and identity theives. Christ seperated the real Judaites from the false “Jews” by way of his word. This is how he gathered his sheep (people) in both the southern Kingdom of Judah and the Northern Kingdom of Israel who were by this time dispursed, most having entered into Europe already through the Caucasion mountains when they spilled into what is modern Germany around the modern town of Vilseck, the same place I served in the military to stand guard against the Soviet Jewish hoard during the cold war.
Concerning the Flood, tell me why we have mans footprints within Dino tracks? Tell me why their are gigantic clam fossiles the size of VWs on the top of Mount Evererst?
Gobekli Tepe does not show that is existed pre flood, although I am not going to state that it is not. It could be either way, but I tell you this, it is right next to where Noah’s ship came to rest after the flood.
You said:
“Israel is the creation of the Rothschild dynasty, who continue to sponsor it indirectly, via the Federal Reserve System, and the illegal IRS. No American citizen is constitutionally bound to pay the Federal Income Tax.
Israel is the operational base of a vast organized crime network that acts on behalf of the International Banking Syndicate to which the Rothschilds belong. All those black hats and wall wailers are nothing but pantomime for the insane.
What most people term “Judaism” is in practise Saturn worship at best, and devil (Satan) worship at worst.”
Answer:
Agreed 100% except that they stold that term “Israel” to fool Christians into supporting them when in reality, white Christians are both spiritual and physical Israel. Like I said- Identity theft!
You said:
“Before 20 more years have passed, Judaism will have been wiped out and its temples demolished.
Answer:
Agreed!
You said:
Christianity will be seen for what it is: the pacification of the mind and spirit so that those who follow it may live like obedient Sheep under their Talmudic ‘masters’.
Answer:
The apostate “Church” and false Christianity will be exposed as just exactly that! Agreed!
You said:
The mass murder of my Germanic people WILL be mercilessly avenged, as they were in Teutoburg forest.
Answer:
It will be, true and I look forward to that day like I look forward to Christ (the true one) coming forth.
You said:
Have I answered your questions deeply enough for you to understand clearly?”
Answer:
I think you have Anglo Saxon; Have I yours?
Here are my reactions :
1) If NASA denies it, I believe them rather than a charlatan.
2) The world is a round flat disc according to the “infallible” Bible. That is meant with the word “chug” in Isaiah 40 : 22. If a globe was meant the word “dur” , meaning “ball” would have been used. For further infomation on the silly Biblical cosmology, go to : http://www.answering-christianity.com/earth_flat.
3) To demand personal presence at any event of history or prehistory in order to be allowed to judge it is not “scientific” at all. Otherwise many sciences would not be possible at all, such as archeology or paleontology.
4) You served in the army? But didn’t they test you for mental health?
5) Finally some spelling corrections ( including from your answer to Anglo-Saxon ) :
relize > realize
conqured > conquered
theives > thieves
dispursed > dispersed
Caicasion > Caucasian, but usually the term Caucasus Mountains is used.
hoard > horde
mans > man’s
stold > stole
I hope “Lord” Jahweh will not punish you too severely for these mistakes.
@Franklin Ryckaert:
The above comment is meant as an answer to TyronRobertParsons.
Franklin
1) If NASA denies it, I believe them rather than a charlatan.
Answer:
Here is your ignorance in its prime; willing to believe apart from your 5 senses while you falsely claim the scientific standard to the opposite as your MO. This is called hypocrisy.
2) The world is a round flat disc according to the “infallible” Bible. That is meant with the word “chug” in Isaiah 40 : 22. If a globe was meant the word “dur” , meaning “ball” would have been used. For further infomation on the silly Biblical cosmology, go to : http://www.answering-christianity.com/earth_flat.
Answer:
I will do a spell check for you too. I us “INFORMATION” not infomation
“The Bible does not teach that the earth is flat. The flat-earth idea is a relatively recent invention that reached its peak only after Darwinists tried to discredit the Bible, according to a professor of history at the University of California in Santa Barbara.
Professor Jeffrey Burton Russell said in his book inventing the Flat Earth, first released in the early 1990s, that up until the time of Columbus “nearly unanimous scholarly opinion pronounced the earth spherical”. Professor Russell said he believes that the flat-earth myth can largely be traced back to a story by Washington Irving, which relates a mythical account of Columbus defending a round earth against bigoted, misinformed clergy and university professors.
He said there is nothing in the documents from Christopher Columbus’s time or in early accounts of Columbus’s life that suggests any debate over the shape of the earth. He said the flat-earth myth flourished between 1870 and 1920, and had to do with the ideological setting created by struggles over evolution. It seemed an ideal way to dismiss the ideas of a religious past in the name of modern science.
Another source for the myth
We believe that another source for the myth was Jonathan Swift’s Gulliver’s Travels. In this satire of courts and politicians, Swift wrote:
They bury their dead with their hands directly downwards, because they hold an opinion, that in eleven thousand moons they are all to rise again, in which period the earth (which they conceive to be flat) will turn upside down …
The Bible actually teaches a spherical shape for the earth. In Isaiah 40:22 God is said to sit above “the circle of the earth” (the Hebrew word for circle can also mean a sphere). Also, in Luke 17:34–36 Christ’s Second Coming is portrayed as occurring while some are asleep at night and others are working at daytime activities — which means a rotating earth with day and night at the same time.”
Augustine wrote:
… although it be supposed or scientifically demonstrated that the world is of a round and spherical form, yet it does not follow that the other side of the earth is bare of water; nor even, though it be bare, does it immediately follow that it is peopled.”
Taken from.. http://www.creationtips.com/flatearth.html
3) To demand personal presence at any event of history or prehistory in order to be allowed to judge it is not “scientific” at all. Otherwise many sciences would not be possible at all, such as archeology or paleontology.
Answer:
Then START BEING TRUTHFUL AND CALL YOUR BELIEF SYSTEM A RELIGION AND NOT SCIENCE -hypocritical liar!
4) You served in the army? But didn’t they test you for mental health?
Slander for lack of intelligent retort again. I and my cohorts took on a host of black NCO’s who persecuted us ending in a military trial and my having to run to Mexico to stave off Military retribution for exposing these Marxist Black Panthers who had infiltrated our ranks at the most forwardly deployed base in NATO at the time- so stick it up your as- you pathetic punk. If there was not a screen between us right now I would administer a lesson to you so meaningful- you might know for once in your pathetic pus-y life what the meaning of suffering is; instead of crying your wussy tears padded with multiple insults while consistently ignoring already establish fact between us. I would do this FAVOR for you so you might finally grow up and out of your pus-y Jewish programming that was fed to you since you popped out of your mother’s womb. Stop being a little panzy Jewish marxist tool…Oh wait, I could not expect that from you if you are really a ‘Jew” pretending to be a white European could I…
5) Finally some spelling corrections ( including from your answer to Anglo-Saxon ) :
relize > realize
conqured > conquered
theives > thieves
dispursed > dispersed
Caicasion > Caucasian, but usually the term Caucasus Mountains is used.
hoard > horde
mans > man’s
stold > stole
Answer:
Thank you. Next time I am rushing to post something because I have other things more pressing, I now see I can count on you as my personal spell-check….AWESOME..This should free up my time more.
You said:
I hope “Lord” Jahweh will not punish you too severely for these mistakes.
Answer:
I know that’s a lie so I hope he punishes you so as to refine you from the Marxist pus-y you are, into a real man.
Franklin,
‘
In final rebuttle to your JEWISH MARXIST BS! Read it an weep you biblically illiterate Jew-tool..
New International Version (©1984)
He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in.
New Living Translation (©2007)
God sits above the circle of the earth. The people below seem like grasshoppers to him! He spreads out the heavens like a curtain and makes his tent from them.
English Standard Version (©2001)
It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to dwell in;
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
GOD’S WORD® Translation (©1995)
God is enthroned above the earth, and those who live on it are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the sky like a canopy and spreads it out like a tent to live in.
King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
It is he that sits upon the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are as grasshoppers; that stretches out the heavens as a curtain, and spreads them out as a tent to dwell in:
American King James Version
It is he that sits on the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretches out the heavens as a curtain, and spreads them out as a tent to dwell in:
American Standard Version
It is he that sitteth above the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in;
Douay-Rheims Bible
It is he that sitteth upon the globe of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as locusts: he that stretcheth out the heavens as nothing, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in.
Darby Bible Translation
It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a gauze curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in;
English Revised Version
It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
Webster’s Bible Translation
It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
World English Bible
It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them out like a tent to dwell in;
Young’s Literal Translation
He who is sitting on the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are as grasshoppers, He who is stretching out as a thin thing the heavens, And spreadeth them as a tent to dwell in.
Barnes’ Notes on the Bible
It is he that sitteth – Margin, ‘Him that sitteth,’ that is, have you not known him? The Hebrew literally means ‘the sitter, or he sitting on the circle of the each;’ and it may be connected either with Isaiah 40:21, ‘Have ye not known him sitting on the circle of the earth?’ or with Isaiah 40:18, ‘What likeness will ye compare to him that sitteth on the circle of the earth?’ In either case the phrase is designed to show the majesty and glory of God. The word ‘sitteth’ refers to God as a sovereign or monarch, making the circle of the earth his throne.
The circle of the earth – Or rather, “above” (על ‛al) the circle of the earth. The word rendered ‘circle’ (חוּג chûg) denotes “a circle, sphere, or arch”; and is applied to the arch or vault of the heavens, in Proverbs 8:27; Job 22:14. The phrase ‘circle,’ or ‘circuit of the earth,’ here seems to be used in the same sense as the phrase orbis terrarum by the Latins; not as denoting a sphere, or not as implying that the earth was a globe, but that it was an extended plain surrounded by oceans and mighty waters. The globular form of the earth was then unknown; and the idea is, that God sat above this extended circuit, or circle; and that the vast earth was beneath his feet.
http://bible.cc/isaiah/40-22.htm
For those TOO readers who genuinely wish to think and act like men, then please follow this link and read/digest what you find carefully.
It is time to leave Christianity, and especially the superstitious filth that is “Judaism”, to wither on the vine. The Human Soul wants them both dead, for it is death they have each caused. Dump your ridiculous Bibles and return to your authentic European roots.
Honour ‘Jesus’ if you must, but do NOT worship gods from the Middle East! And never utter the word “Amen” … for the origins of this word go back to ancient Egypt, and the use of “Amen-Ray”, from the era of Pharaoh Akhenaten.
His Amen-Ray is often depicted as an eye inside a triangle. Look at the rear of your Dollar Bill!
We Europeans possess the oldest, wisest, and most harmonious spiritual belief system in the world. Be proud of that fact.
http://www.asatru.org/
Please sit, relax, and carefully study the page: About Asatru … and instantly make yourself wiser.
The much maligned Third Reich knew all this. Which is one reason why it had to not only be defeated, but erased from people’s consciousness.
Incidentally, to senior Freemasons, the United States is often referred to as the “New Egypt”. Knowing that simple fact helps to make sense of so many (bad) things going on today. Look again at the Washington Monument and understand what it is supposed to mean and represent. If you don’t have that basic info in your head, then you are just a helpless sheep.
@Anglo Saxon
Part 1
You said:
“It is time to leave Christianity, and especially the superstitious filth that is “Judaism”, to wither on the vine. The Human Soul wants them both dead, for it is death they have each caused. Dump your ridiculous Bibles and return to your authentic European roots.”
Answer:
Leave the Apostate Churches and false teachings that have infiltrated and now dominate so much of “Christianity”? Absolutely! Leave “Judaism”- God only knows why one would even adopt such a insane satanic belief system the first place.
Here I agree with you.
Your mistake Anglo Saxon is that you do not understand that the pagan religion you are advocating for Europeans to return to IS THE SAME pagan religion(s) that got them booted from ancient Israel in the first place. The EXACT SAME pagan religions as listed in scripture as fallen angel worship are the same exact ones the Northern Israelites were worshipping when both true and false Christianity arrived. If you study what the Northern Israelites began to practice to which the Lord called whoring after other “Gods”, you will see that this is NOT the answer.
The truth is, we are a direct creation of the Lord/God Almighty, creator and savior of the heavens and the earth. The Catholic Church is where Satan’s throne was installed after Constantine realized that TRUE Christianity could never be conquered by murdering those who followed Christ, hence he made Christianity the “law of the land” and then subverted it from within. The “Gods” the pagans worshipped were fallen angel religions and as such, here we see the combination of fallen angel worship with the worship of Satan, the Pope, as Vicarius Filii Dei or Vicar of Christ (also adds to 666 like many other evil entities-things etc)
So, true Christianity did not conquer paganism- Apostate “Christianity” combined with fallen angel worship-Paganism to rule over God’s physical people- Israel-Judah- also known as the white man-Europeans and all the tribal titles-names they held since they left the land in punishment. This apostate Christianity murdered the real believers in Jesus Christ all through the dark ages even up to the late 1700s.
VICARIUS FILII DEI
THE LITERAL MEANING: VICARIUS – substituting for, or in place of
FILII – means son
DEI – means GOD
V = 5 F = no value D = 500
I = 1 I = 1 E = no value
C = 100 L = 50 I = 1
A = no value I = 1 ——–
R = no value I = 1 501
I = 1 ——–
U/V = 5 53
S = no value
——– 112 + 53 + 501 = 666
@ Anglo Saxon
Part 2
You said:
Honour ‘Jesus’ if you must, but do NOT worship gods from the Middle East! And never utter the word “Amen” … for the origins of this word go back to ancient Egypt, and the use of “Amen-Ray”, from the era of Pharaoh Akhenaten.
Answer:
This is very true. Amen is of the Egyptian pagan God so simply say- Your will be done or it will be done instead of Amen.
You said:
His Amen-Ray is often depicted as an eye inside a triangle. Look at the rear of your Dollar Bill!
Answer:
True again!
You said:
We Europeans possess the oldest, wisest, and most harmonious spiritual belief system in the world. Be proud of that fact.
Answer:
Yes but it is called the way, the truth and the light and can ONLY be attained through worship and immulation of Jesus Christ- who is in our spirit, soul and DNA; us being his fellow kinsman and yet at the same time, the creation made by him in his image from Adam on down.
You said:
The much maligned Third Reich knew all this. Which is one reason why it had to not only be defeated, but erased from people’s consciousness.
Answer:
Lots of lies have been said about the German peoples and the Third Reich. I agree! The regular German people only sought to protect Germany and Europe from the Satanic Bolshevik Jews. What the average German did not realize is that Eichmann was right, the “Jews” did indeed play the Germans and this is because they tricked them away from true Christianity and into Paganism again which sealed their fate.
The Third Reich made a fatal error. In their search for the origins of the Germanic peoples, they rightly went back as far as India but failed to go back further. Here they found among other things that it was the Aryans that had been there which is another name of some of the northern Israelites that were pushed that far by the Assyria who conqured them in 721 BC.
This gave more credence to the Swastika, whose roots can be found in both Babylon (with the start of David) as well as in Egypt- the place the Lord delivered our people from to form their own nation-Ancient United Israel, with the 12/13 tribes, almost EXACTLY like the founding of America.
Soon we (many of us) will go through another exodus as the Lord gathers us from the 4 corners of the world where we reside to plant us back in OUR LAND in a NEW ISRAEL- in the ME, after the Esau “Jews” and other enemies are taken care of. This so the Lord’s overcomers can co rule with him, but as SERVANTS to the world- not as masters!
You said:
Incidentally, to senior Freemasons, the United States is often referred to as the “New Egypt”. Knowing that simple fact helps to make sense of so many (bad) things going on today. Look again at the Washington Monument and understand what it is supposed to mean and represent. If you don’t have that basic info in your head, then you are just a helpless sheep.
Answer:
This is true. The free masons envisioned a “New Egypt” and this is centered out of the foreign nation and jurisdiction DC- to that of the united States and their Sovereign nation/states.
The real and true Christians (and funny enough Ben Franklin even said so) looked at early America as the New Israel!
As to the Germanic people, a good portion of them are from the tribe of Gad, otherwise known as the tribe of the Goths- from who my ancestor was the King of for a period of time out of Smolland, Sweden before the breakup into the Scandinavian nations and the small Germanic Republics.
This is explains a little about Gad and the prophesies about the tribe of Gad from our ancient patriarch Gad, 7th son of Jacob/Israel.
“ Let us consider the name of Gad and how his name was given. “And Zilpah, Leah’s maid bare Jacob a son.” And Leah said, “A troop cometh; and she called his name Gad” (Gen. 30-10-11). Gad itself means “a troop.” On the surface it would appear that all that was meant by Leah’s words was that Gad was a troop and would become so, yet there is more involved here than this. Consider the words of Jacob in Gen. 49:19. “Gad, a troop shall overcome him; but he shall overcome at last.” Thus Leah’s words were prophetic as well as explanatory of God spoke the truth through her that a troop was coming against Gad, yet also Gad meaning a troop shows that, though he be overcome of a troop he as a troop would overcome in the end.”
*Taken off the net
Now I ask you, was not Germany and the Scandinavian nations overcome? Is not even today, Germany referred to as a troop of people- storm troopers etc? Germany was overcome, but rest assured, those in Christ in Germany- the German people, by the grace of their creator/savior will indeed overcome the fake Jews and this world Babylonian, Egyptian, Fallen angel, Satan worshiping system that is over us all.
Here are the patriarch’s writings- first known to have been written down about 100 years before Christ. Gad is said to be the 7th son, others say the 9th.His strength was renoun among of the rest of the tribes because Gad was a badass- to put it mildly.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/fbe/fbe267.htm
@TyronRobertParsons:
Your last two sentences ( beginning with “The phrase ‘circle’,…”) say exactly what I say and therefore don’t refute me at all : with chug NOT A GLOBE was meant but a ROUND DISC ( “an extended plain, an extended circuit or circle”). Thus the cosmology of the Bible was that of a flat round disc (“the earth”) with a dome above ( “the heaven”), which is clearly an optical illusion. Since the cosmology is illusory so is the “God” of that cosmology. Is that so difficult to understand?
Add to that the primitive traits of this deity, his immorality ( cruelty, murderousness ), emotional instability ( anger, jealousy, remorse etc. ), tribality ( fighter for the Israelites against other peoples ), his need for bloody animal sacrifices and old Jahweh loses any appeal to be “worshipped” by rational men.
As for his “chosen” people, reading in the OT about their numerous crimes abuses you of any admiration for them, let alone the desire to identify as their “real” descendants. You still have not answered the question how Europeans could possibly be the descendants of a people that left Palestine in 722 BC while they themselves already existed nearly 35,000 years BEFORE that date.
Your answer to rational arguments is repetitive declarations of ( irrational ) faith, just like a Jehova witness and just as witless.
Finally, only one spelling mistake this time : rebuttle > rebuttal
Franklin,
You ignorant slug! Saying that circle means that the bible was saying that the earth was flat is selective thinking. It is akin to saying that if one said “hey, see that round blue object over there”- that this means without question, that round object referenced was a flat one dimensional object, when in reality one was referring to a ball from a single view point of observation.
If one was in space and looking at the earth they would see a spherical blue object and NO ONE in their right mind would declare that it was flat as even AUGUSTINE pointed out some 2000 YEARS AGO-and the NT points out- something anyone with any a fair mind can see.
Beyond that, the bible makes clear and does not hide any of the bad things our forefathers did as well as the subsequent punishments that came there way for their crimes. This shows that the scriptures is HONEST and TRUE and besides that, the Character of God is the summation of Jesus Christ’s Character- whose number one enemy on this planet was the fake Jews, to whom you do continual service as a FALSE OPPOSITION PLANT, WHILE YOU support Jewish Marxism and evolution which goes hand in hand with it using Jewish tactics, which are your METHOD OF OPERATION -Jew tool!
I have asked you many, many questions over the course of our discussions- such as, name one thing Jesus Christ said or did that was wrong- and you JEW TOOL, refuse to answer ANYTHING, while you DEMAND of me to answer your questions which I ALWAYS do. You are a PATHETIC JEW TOOL and a chickensh-t to boot. Proof of this you wussy was when I said we ought to meet, face to face, and as the WUSSY, PANZY JEW TOOL you are, you Jewed out looking for a way to trap me in my words so you might use the moderator or the police AS A PROXY t eliminate your opposition, to do you bidding for you, because at heart, you are a COWARD and a tool of the Jews–end of story
Franklin,
I will no longer speak with you on this thread. Everyone can study my unchanged position and all the links and retorts to back up my stance which still stands. I will speak with Anglo Saxon and others however- they are not a Jew tool like you.
@TyronRobertParsons:
Sir, I get the idea that CI adherents believe that White Europeans are the ten lost tribes of Israel. However, it does not answer the question of what happened to the original inhabitants of Europe, the children of Japheth who was given Europe by the Almighty during Peleg’s times.
Could you kindly explain what CI believes happened to the Japhethites? Thanks.
@TyronRobertParsons:
Luke 17 : 34/36 says absolutely nothing about a difference between night and day, thus indicating a spherical earth with time differences in different places.
Here is the text :
As you see, it is about two persons AT THE SAME TIME AND PLACE of whom one shall be taken, the other be left. How this would “prove” a spherical earth is beyond me.
If you don’t want to read my words, then at least read your own words. In your own words it is said explicitly three times that the earth is NOT A GLOBE, while it is strongly implicated that it is a flat disc. Here are your own words :
So it states THREE TIMES explicitly that the earth is not a globe, while it is strongly implicated that it is a flat disc. If with the term “circle of the earth” is not meant a globe, what could it possibly mean otherwise than a flat disc, especially while the term “extended plain” is used. Plains happen to be flat, not spherical, remember?
So, your own words disprove your assertion. Sorry.
@Anglo Saxon:
You raise an interesting point about the problem of Christianity and you want to promote a Germanic form of neo-Paganism. I would like to comment on that extensively, but first some remarks on your objections to the use of the word “amen”. In your own words :
Contrast this with Wikipedia,Amen :
The Hebrew word amen, meaning “so be it”, comes from the triconsonantal Semitic root ‘-M-N- ( the glottal stop denoted by ‘ is counted as a consonant in Semitic ), ‘ấman in Hebrew, ‘âmana in Arabic, meaning : to be firm, confirmed, reliable, faithful, to have faith, to believe.
Imân means “faith” in Arabic.
There is no relation with any Egyptian god, hence no “danger” to pronounce that word ( If Egyptian gods are “dangerous” anyway. But why are Germanic gods not “dangerous”? )
Personally I have no objections to the word “amen” since it only means “so be it”. What I do find problematic however is the word “Hallelujah”, since it means “praise Jahweh”, from the Hebrew verb hallal, to praise and Jah a contracted form of Jahweh , a god I strongly detest, let alone want to “praise”.
So far for the word “amen”, next I hope to comment on neo-Paganism itself.
@Clytemnestra:
You said:
Sir, I get the idea that CI adherents believe that White Europeans are the ten lost tribes of Israel.
Answer:
I cannot speak for CI persay because every Christian belief system and subdivision has a slightly different take than the other. As a person who understands the basic truths of “CI”, I can tell you what all of my investigations over the decades have revealed.
You said:
However, it does not answer the question of what happened to the original inhabitants of Europe, the children of Japheth who was given Europe by the Almighty during Peleg’s times. Could you kindly explain what CI believes happened to the Japhethites? Thanks.
Answer:
If we are speaking of the same Peleg then he would be one of the Son’s of Eber (name Hebrew is derived from it). During this time the tower of Bable happened (one of the first attempts as a NWO) and the planet at the time was yet again, heaped in paganism, using the same language etc.
In genesis 10 we see the genealogy of Noah’s son’s including Ashkenaz from Japeth (90-95% of those who call themselves the “Jews” todaywith the remaining 5% directly from Esau-”Jews” of Christ’s time fame).
One must understand that through the thousands of years since the flood, there have been mass migrations of peoples, especially those from Israel/Judah in their dispersion to the 4 corners of the earth. White people, or Hebrews, are not from Japheth, but rather Shem. In genesis 11:16 it shows the lineage of Shem to Peleg. Most main stream “biblical scholars” try to claim Europeans to be of the tribes of Japheth but this completely disregards all known history for the last 2,500 years and is absolutely central to the identity theft and claim of the so called Jews today.
Ashkenaz is from Japeth and they created the Khazarian empire which was located by the Caspian sea (Khazar sea). This area is considered southern Russia/Eastern Europe and these people are also known as Turkish/Mongrels- hence we understand that in broad terms, those from Japheth make up the Asiatic races- Ham the Black/African races and Shem- the white, now known as the European races, but this is because the Israelites of the northern tribes first, and Judaite southern tribes second, went to the north and west of Jerusalem during their dispersions hence making the early pagan tribes and then Christian nations of Europe-Russia.
If one studies the roots of both the old Anglo Saxon and Welsh languages they would see that they are 50 and 80% at their root derived from Hebrew. The genetics of the English peoples are a 80% Egyptian match and as one moves further east toward Russia this dirct match decreases. Egyptians were white people, as were the Hebrews.
After the exodus from Egypt, the12/13 tribes of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were separated into their own nation/state/tribes making up the early united Israelite nation, much like early America. Within these people were the “mixed multitude” from Egyptian/Israelite extract. Keep in mind also that Joseph’s sons (Ephriam/Manassah) were half Egyptian as well due to his marrying an Egyptian women.
There are many, many more things linking Europeans to Israelite stock such as their ships, their written declarations, the travels of Paul to both France, Spain and England telling them so to other NT and OT documentation and identifying markers and traits not to exclude the fact that the pagan dieties the Europeans worshipped are the EXACT same pagan dieties that got the Northern Israelites booted from the land in the first place.
I hope this answers your question.
Correction:
If one studies the old Saxon and Welsh languages*
@TyronRobertParsons:
Well dear Tyron, you indefatigable fighter for Jahweh, apart from spewing your usual CI-nonsense you made again some spelling mistakes and this time also some grammatical blunders that cry for corrections.
So here we go :
persay > per se ( it’s Latin, dammit!)
Bable > Babel
attempts as > attempts at
dirct > direct
dieties > deities . This confusion of ‘ei’ with ‘ie’ is fairly common. What’s so difficult about it?
Now the grammatical blunders :
“During this time the tower of Bable happened.”
A tower cannot “happen”, an incident with a tower can.
“the planet was heaped in paganism.”
You cannot be heaped in something, you can be heaped with something or be immersed in something.
“If one studies…they would see…” > If one studies, one would see…
“from Egyptian/Israelite extract.”
You can make an extract from a food stuff. When you are talking about the origin of peoples you use the word extraction, so the proper way of saying should be : of Egyptian/Israelite extraction.
“Joseph’s sons were half Egyptian as well due to his marrying an Egyptian women.”
You change from plural ( sons ) to singular ( his, an ), then to plural again ( women ).
Well, that’s it. Again sloppy language and the by now well known CI nonsense.
How a grown up can still believe in the silly Biblical stories and try to fit them into real history is a mystery to me.
Tell us, what education did you have after Kindergarten?
@Clytemnestra:
One last thing. I am assuming you believe in scriptures and are probably a Christian of one type or another. This link might be helpful conserning the “Jews” and their identity theft from European/white peoples (Christians).
http://www.ensignmessage.com/50reasons.html
@TyronRobertParsons:
Thank you for your explanation, but my understanding is that all three sons of Noah were supposed to be White Adamites and that the Asiatics, Negros, Australoids, Neanderthals, and Cro-Magnon were/are pre-Adamic races.
A strong racial and religious identity is important to European Whites, but quite frankly, the idea that we are the ten lost tribes of Israel who were probably either exterminated by the Assyrians or absorbed back into Judea, anyway, strikes me as the perfect stumbling block to that identity.
A key factor of identity is personality. Aside from what looks like deliberate and tactical race-mixing (to easier blend into the host population) that the Bible frowns on, what Hebrew-Semite characteristics have changed since Judea absorbed Edom? Nothing from what I can see.
They have always represented a dangerous diaspora whose advance scouts like Daniel and Joseph sidle up to the seats of power and take over the levers of power by assuming administrative advisory positions in government. The top guns intermarry with the aristocracy, further alienating the elite from the populace who is exploited by lower-level tax collectors and usurers.
Does this sound anything like US, personality-wise? NO. We are not a diaspora, always remaining a temporary group among a host population that has already set up a formal civilization. We are a blood and soil people. Yes, we migrate, but we put down roots and build civilizations.
I can easier believe that the Ashkenazi Jews are those pesky, long-lost Israelites than the rest of us, because the Khazars are the only group that was not converted to an Abrahamic religion at swordpoint. How could they so easily turn their backs on paganism if they had not always been practicing some form of Hebrewism?
Pardon me, if I’m on Team Esau for a few minutes, but after his little brother conned him into trading his birthright for a bowl of pottage and then turned around and stole his blessing, his descendants, the Edomites, figured out if you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em, and picked up where the Israelites left off. The addition of the Ashkenazi Khazars just fed Hebrewism a handful of steroids AFAIC.
Why would we want to be Hebrews anyway? If they had not written some book where they allege some demiurge claimed them as his chosen people, is there anything that admirable about them? If you examine them dispassionately, where do they come off as anything, but a sleazy, underhanded bunch that most people wouldn’t spit on if they were on fire? We have Abraham pimping his wife to the Phillistine and Egyptian kings and then extorting them to take Sara back after “the Lord” became wroth. We see Isaac trying the same stunt. We have Jacob the Deceiver rip off his big brother seven ways to Sunday.
What is interesting is that, of all three of Noah’s son, the most has been done by the Shemite writers of the Bible to muddy the waters where Japheth and his descendants are concerned. We have Shem and Japheth’s birth order confusion. Then we have the comment that Japheth is going to live in the tents of Shem. If anything, the opposite is true. Shem has always camped out in the tents of Japheth (Jews first and now the Muslims).
Now let’s look at the translation of the names of Noah’s son for further clues to our real identity. Shem means “the Name.” Ham means “hot or dark.” However, Japheth means “beautiful.” Whites are considered the most beautiful race in the world by the other races, the more Nordid, the better. The Italian pope compared the blond, blue-eyed Angles to Angels, because they were so beautiful.
Japheth was so beautiful and powerful, he was worshipped as a god by his descendants. Japheth was identified by some scholars with figures from other mythologies, including Iapetus, the Greek Titan; the Indian figures Dyaus Pitar[citation needed] and Pra-Japati[citation needed], and the Roman Iu-Pater or “Father Jove”, which became Jupiter.
The Muslims expounded on Noah’s theme by saying that Shem (Jews and Muslims) was to be the father of prophets, priests, and disciples. Ham was supposed to father laborers, menials, and servants. However, Japheth was going to father warriors, kings and tyrants.
Now, think of our great European leaders. Charlemagne, Jan Sobieski, Louis IV, King Henry VIII, etc. NONE of them were priests and prophets. All were tyrants, kings or warriors of great reknown.
So, if the Muslims are right; Japheth the Beautiful is the father of tyrants, kings, and warriors, then it would make sense for a crafty Semite whose country was under the heel of Japhethite Rome to inject a pacifist version of a his religion that would make it subservient to his religion.
Sounds a lot like what St. Paul AKA the Pharisee, Saul of Tarsus did with his “mission to the Gentiles.” In spite of St. James’ best efforts to stop him, he and his henchmen took Mithraism combined it with the pacifism of the Essenes cult, concocted this “You Are the Lost Israelites” fairytale and injected this poisonous cocktail into the Japhethite soul.
It explains why the Muslim and Jewish Semites who routinely go for each other’s jugulars in the Mideast can actively cooperate with each other in Europe. Jews helped the Muslims take Spain. Jews are enabling Muslim immigration into Europe and supporting the building of mosques all over the damned place.
As the old Arab saying goes, “Me against my brothers, my brothers and I against my cousins, my cousins and I against the world.” They KNOW Europeans are Japhethites; why don’t the Europeans?
I do not feel that my own theory that we are Japhethites, not Israelites, conflicts with being a Christian, because I believe that Jesus Christ was sent to fulfill the Almighty’s promise of a redeemer of all Adamites to Adam and Eve.
I feel that the stumbling block to Satan where Jesus’ mission was to “the lost sheep of Israel” ONLY has been used by the Jews as a stumbling block to the Japhethites who think THEY are those lost sheep of Israel. The Bible clearly shows that if the Adversary had not been distracted by the idea of Jesus as the Messiah to Israel ONLY, he would have not forgotten about the Almighty’s promise of an Adamite redeemer and would have never allowed Jesus to be executed.
Had our Japhethite identity not been subverted by Saul of Tarsus Christian Israelite theory, we would never see the useful idiocy that is Christian Zionism. We would not be seeing Japhethites who are so disgusted by Christian Zionism that they become useful Muslim idiots by converting to Islam. We’d have a strong, TRUE Christian identity.
More importantly, we would have never been involved on this wild pendulum ride veering from violent Antisemitism to the present-day servile, fawning Philosemitism. We would have built more civilizations who followed the policies of the Byzantine Empire where the Jews are concerned. It was that empire’s ASEMITISM that the Jews who thrive where they attract strong emotions to themselves. That strong emotion only comes from the bogus kinship bond fostered by this Christian Israelite theory.
Think about the ramifications to Jewish AND Islamic power if all White European Christians had a strong Japhethite identity. We would be more likely to pursue our own interests in EUROPE and the the territories WE colonized. We would not be enforcing the Jews’ biblical claims to Palestine by throwing munitions and money into Israel. We would be kicking ALL Semites to duke it out in their own homelands, and other non-European immigration out of Europe and her territories, because we would be enforcing our own indigenous, ancestral claims to our homelands.
The truth is we are Japhethites, not Israelites.
And the truth will set us free.
@Clytemnestra:
All “White” European Christians?
Eh? To be European IS to be White! There is no such thing as a black or brown European. Unlike you, we don’t do hyphenations!
“… if all White European Christians had a strong Japhethite identity”??
Japhetite? What has that mythology got to do with being authentically European? Why not go the whole hog and ask us to don grass skirts and spears, before adopting a Zulu identify?
I mean, our deracinated youth are already accustomed to jumping up and down in nightclubs like African tribes-people.
All the claptrap that made its way into the Germanic lands from the east Mediterranean, North Africa, Turkey, and the Pontic Steppe need only be rejected, and then treated with the contempt it deserves. We shall return to our authentic roots, as we define them. Not some crackpot book cobbled together under the auspices of a Roman Emperor.
@Clytemnestra:
Part 1
You said
Thank you for your explanation, but my understanding is that all three sons of Noah were supposed to be White Adamites and that the Asiatics, Negros, Australoids, Neanderthals, and Cro-Magnon were/are pre-Adamic races.
Answer
I believe CroMagnon and Neanderthal was pre flood races but never considered Asiatics, Negros, Australoids as pre adamic. Interesting and it I think it has possibilities considering how genesis is worded.
You said
A strong racial and religious identity is important to European Whites, but quite frankly, the idea that we are the ten lost tribes of Israel who were probably either exterminated by the Assyrians or absorbed back into Judea, anyway, strikes me as the perfect stumbling block to that identity.
Answer
Please consider this link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0wG0EVG5Ec
You said
A key factor of identity is personality. Aside from what looks like deliberate and tactical race-mixing (to easier blend into the host population) that the Bible frowns on, what Hebrew-Semite characteristics have changed since Judea absorbed Edom? Nothing from what I can see.
Answer
Christ separated real jadeite stock from Esau, just as he gathered northern Israelites- by way of his word. Esau’s paternal seed was wiped off the map by the Romans by 135 ad. Then the maternal line remainder mixed with Ashkenaz later.
@Clytemnestra:
Part 2
You said
They have always represented a dangerous diaspora whose advance scouts like Daniel and Joseph sidle up to the seats of power and take over the levers of power by assuming administrative advisory positions in government. The top guns intermarry with the aristocracy, further alienating the elite from the populace who is exploited by lower-level tax collectors and usurers.
Answer
The Esau maternal line mixed with Ashkenaz adopted Judaism, which is Talmud that came out of Babylon and employ supposed OT (really Talmudic) tactics.
You said
Does this sound anything like US, personality-wise? NO. We are not a diaspora, always remaining a temporary group among a host population that has already set up a formal civilization. We are a blood and soil people. Yes, we migrate, but we put down roots and build civilizations.
Answer
Just as we were prophesied to do
You said
I can easier believe that the Ashkenaz Jews are those pesky, long-lost Israelites than the rest of us, because the Khazars are the only group that was not converted to an Abrahamic religion at swordpoint. How could they so easily turn their backs on paganism if they had not always been practicing some form of Hebrewism?
Answer
Because in 740 AD their King who admits he and his people are from Japeth sent representatives of all the monolithic religions and he chose Talmudism/Judaism and as was custom the world over that he time, his people follow suit.
You said
Pardon me, if I’m on Team Esau for a few minutes, but after his little brother conned him into trading his birthright for a bowl of pottage and then turned around and stole his blessing, his descendants, the Edomites, figured out if you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em, and picked up where the Israelites left off. The addition of the Ashkenaz Khazars just fed Hebrewism a handful of steroids AFAIC.
Answer
The fruitfulness mandate was secured by Jacob by way of price gouging but Esau did not care about this birthright. Later, Esau and Jacob’s mother ordered Jacob to trick their father Isaac into giving him the dominion mandate as well. God was ok with this because he did not like Esau’s attitude at all. He says he hates Esau. This conflict is what is known as the controversy of Zion. Jacob made peace with Esau and tried to settle all accounts with Esau and Esau accepted but his kin have forever been trying to destroy Jacob from that time forward. The blessing Esau did get though was to rule at the end of the age(s) by way of blood and the sword. We can see this happened in Christ’s time as it is happening right now again at the end of this particular age.
You said
Pardon me, if I’m on Team Esau for a few minutes, but after his little brother conned him into trading his birthright for a bowl of pottage and then turned around and stole his blessing, his descendants, the Edomites, figured out if you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em, and picked up where the Israelites left off. The addition of the Ashkenaz Khazars just fed Hebrewism a handful of steroids AFAIC.
Answer
The fruitfulness mandate was secured by Jacob by way of price gouging but Esau did not care about this birthright. Later, Esau and Jacob’s mother ordered Jacob to trick their father Isaac into giving him the dominion mandate as well. God was ok with this because he did not like Esau’s attitude at all. He says he hates Esau. This conflict is what is known as the controversy of Zion. Jacob made peace with Esau and tried to settle all accounts with Esau and Esau accepted but his kin have forever been trying to destroy Jacob from that time forward. The blessing Esau did get though was to rule at the end of the age(s) by way of blood and the sword. We can see this happened in Christ’s time as it is happening right now again at the end of this particular age.
Part 4
You said
Why would we want to be Hebrews anyway? If they had not written some book where they allege some demiurge claimed them as his chosen people, is there anything that admirable about them? If you examine them dispassionately, where do they come off as anything, but a sleazy, underhanded bunch that most people wouldn’t spit on if they were on fire? We have Abraham pimping his wife to the Phillistine and Egyptian kings and then extorting them to take Sara back after “the Lord” became wroth. We see Isaac trying the same stunt. We have Jacob the Deceiver rip off his big brother seven ways to Sunday.
Answer
The bible is honest and truthful about our forefathers sins, but in comparison, the Israelites sins are and were nowhere near as horrible of what other races did continually back then.
You said
What is interesting is that, of all three of Noah’s son, the most has been done by the Shemite writers of the Bible to muddy the waters where Japheth and his descendants are concerned. We have Shem and Japheth’s birth order confusion. Then we have the comment that Japheth is going to live in the tents of Shem. If anything, the opposite is true. Shem has always camped out in the tents of Japheth (Jews first and now the Muslims).
Answer
Do not the Japeth lineage Ashkenaz live among the Israelite Europeans today?
You said
Now let’s look at the translation of the names of Noah’s son for further clues to our real identity. Shem means “the Name.” Ham means “hot or dark.” However, Japheth means “beautiful.” Whites are considered the most beautiful race in the world by the other races, the more Nordid, the better. The Italian pope compared the blond, blue-eyed Angles to Angels, because they were so beautiful.
Answer
Please consider this link http://www.bible-codes.org/Names-Bible-Prophecy-Code.htm
You said
I feel that the stumbling block to Satan where Jesus’ mission was to “the lost sheep of Israel” ONLY has been used by the Jews as a stumbling block to the Japhethites who think THEY are those lost sheep of Israel. The Bible clearly shows that if the Adversary had not been distracted by the idea of Jesus as the Messiah to Israel ONLY, he would have not forgotten about the Almighty’s promise of an Adamite redeemer and would have never allowed Jesus to be executed.
Answer
Jesus’s principal is this- first to the Israelite then to the gentile. The spiritual trumps the physical definition of Israelite hence of anyone really believes in the TRUE Christ- he can be grafted into Israel and be a co-ruling servant to the world with Christ just as easy as a physical Israelite can lose his titles and blessings by way of nonbelief.
@Franklin Ryckaert:
LOL
@Z.O.G.:
If you noticed on the other thread, I called Franklin out on his habitual Jewish legalistic behavior that he tries to make trump over actual implied content. He has actually made it his mission to correct everyone’s, spelling-typo errors on their posts on TOO-how’s that for a Jew Tool? To believe that such behavior will not drive people in drives from this site is nothing less than a short cut to thinking.
My last post to him was intentionally done so with errors and all in order to prove my point
Supporting Franklin in his Jewish behavior is akin to supporting the “Jews” goals.
@fender:
Maybe there’s another reason for Jared Taylor’s philo-Semitism? Perhaps someone in his immediate family is Jewish? Like his wife, perhaps?
@TyronRobertParsons:
Now, Tyrone, everybody knows full well that negroes are the true Jews. Get with the program.
@Franklin Ryckaert:
Well said, Franklin.
@TyronRobertParsons:
As if to confirm your suspicion, here again a spelling correction :
…drive people in drives… > …drive people in droves…
And in order to strengthen your suspicion even more, I say that I strongly sympathize with Esau instead with Jacob from the Biblical story in Genesis. Honest Esau was cheated of the blessing from his father by the treacherous Jacob. If Jahweh “loved” Jacob, then that is a reason the more to hate Jahweh.
Christian Identity is a belief system appealing to intellectual Hillbillies. In order to believe that you need a combination of ignorance, stupidity and delusion. You seem to lack none of those qualities.
And people wonder why the pro white movement is paralized..shessh
@Z.O.G.:
You can’t get your history straight. Instead they believe in and will die for a worldview where monkeys ride pigs and all is as it seems it should be. They offer no solutions by way of law vs legalities. They don’t understand who the so called “Jews” are- let alone who they themselves are. Most are stuck in a fake Jew indoctrinated would view which is secular and evolution based. They cannot come to grips with the fact that they have to be completely deprogrammed and then reprogrammed on a new truth based template and they entertain stupid crap like “what we need to do is correct everyone’s spelling and typo errors” as if this is somehow going to help the cause in any way. Lastly they attack those with a venom only common among the “Jews” anyone who has any of the answers and solutions to our peoples problems…. Brilliant..Just brilliant!
No wonder we will lose the majority of our people before the truth finally trumphs..
@TyronRobertParsons:
would view > world view
trumphs > triumphs
“Lastly they attack those with a venom only common among the “Jews” anyone who has any of the answers and solutions to our peoples problems…”
In this sentence the word “those” is superfluous, the object is already “anyone”, and the phrase “with a venom only common among the “Jews” ” should be placed between commas.
As for deprogramming and reprogramming, I think you already know this is practised on members of some fanatical sects, such as the Moon sect. Seeing how impervious you are to reason, I would almost assume that such a practice is indicated in your case.
With best wishes,
Franklin Ryckaert.
( secret descendant of Esau )
I need to point out some misunderstandings in a lot of statements made here…some or many arouse from a need to set a common ground of some sort of faith-science intermingling which unfortunately only lead to more confusion and non sense…biblical account is the a very naive basis to unite some diverse group into a common umbrella which is called judeo christian tradition…it is clear that Homo sapiens and Neanderthals were heavily mixed in the two areas that they have cohabited (and the ONLY areas around the globe) which are the Middle East and Europe , resulting in a more than one marked feature like nose, forehead, color skin , type of muscles , tooth peculiarities , and other cranial features does not occur outside these two regions ..therefore even if it is not possible to be PROVED does not mean that did not happen..and please remember that humans share (at least for the ongoing scientific knowledge) more than 98% with rats a functional genoma and more than 99% with some species of monkeys…so please I ask you… spare me the ridiculous misstatements painted as solidified facts in a watery science from “preeminent” scientists about “non racial” differences..other very substantiated basis are the remaining myths about the old inhumane and monster gods that were ‘killed” by their HUMANE PRONE progeny is a CLEAR account on what happened and is dealt in such manner in our pre historic period that could be a description of the holocaust made by their own progeny that ultimately led to their demise and destruction ….such are the REAL ancestors of the european and middel easterns…nothing like Japhe…Noah…Sem..and the rest..that is reality…the more recent stories are the ones coming from the bible and in no manner reflect the real PRE HISTORIC ACCOUNTS on our origins…this part of the bible on the flood times(remember as told by Herodotus that he asked some Egyptian priests about the story on the flood and they answered they acknowledged nine in their counting) was clearly written or collected from sources that predates any jewish historical existence evidently collected from the stories heard (NOT READ by them) while they stayed as “serfs” in Babylon if this account is to be accepted as real…history is a puzzle building process that couples a lot of areas including biology, archeology, geology, chemistry. physics, Astronomy….as any detective you have to do field work in the areas that you need to uncover some of these ‘stories”…the rest is only babbling and straw man discussion..so again facts as we know…mythological accounts such Adam and Eve which are the words for Bone and Wind that it is a beautiful METAPHOR where “bone” is the equivalent to materiality or matter and “wind” as the essence of being alive or in motion by the breath(air in motion) or what the ancient Greeks were finally able to conceptualize as SPIRIT….Adam is NOT “RED DUST” only because “God made him from the dust”….that is not the MEANING OF THE WORDS! simply because Adam exists as a functional word until TODAY and means exactly this …BONE….which is the Semitic surviving language even but in fact is the real language by any account..Aramaic uses the exact wording as the current arabic which means that it is a real and vivid basis for the old semitic world…a world that truly was born and developed itself ENTIRELY in the nowadays SAUDI ARABIA from where they have invaded TWICE the world..first time :3.200 BC entering and conquering all the SUMERIAN area called today as IRAQ and parts of ASSYRIA and parts of LEBANON and parts of PALESTINE(generating the 12 tribes as known today) ..second time: 630 AD with the Muslim conquers …remember that the Bible was written around 525 BC in Babylon a city by itself was already a fully semitic (ARABIC) and its own history is far beyond any jewish one to account for…another note of interest is related to the genetic working here dicussed:what is important is the graphical subordination of any so called jewish blood to the center core of the gene pool which are clearly the ones belonging to the nowadays LEBANESE and SYRIAN…which means that the PUREST is NOT the jewish ones PROVING that they are DIRECT descendants from the LEBANESE AND SYRIAN in this case…is there any other possible case?because the samples from SAUDI ARABIA is BIASED they are heavily mixed with africans brought as slaves for thousands of years..do not forget that in order to have a “clean” sample you have to CHOOSE the right people which means that you have to avoid the samples of people that did not INHABITED the place in the past(and these samples were SURELY biased , probably very consciously, by collecting blood samples erratically, people that were mixed with SLAVES brought from Africa for 3.000 years straight into the MIDDLE EAST beginning by the ancient EGYPTIANS (the FIRST to do such trade)and followed later by the ARABS…so in order to analyze EVEN the so called Arabian tribes you have to choose the ones which do not possess any mix and they ABOUND there simply for the reason that INNER marriages are WELCOMED and stimulated …and they do not feel any problem in doing so as such a pseudo racist rant from the nowadays “chosen people”…as I have noted in previous comments that the so called “chosen people ” are without any doubt a migrating tribe from SOUTHERN ARABIA PENINSULA given that their Abraham linked ancestor has to be from the ARAB Peninsula for a myriad of reasons including the indigenous description of the same historical character in their culture long before the rise of Islam…peace upon us..
@Alfred:
You said:
“biblical account is the a very naive basis to unite some diverse group into a common umbrella which is called judeo christian tradition”
Answer
It has only been referred to as Judeo Christian since the “Jews” took over main stream Christianity through 501c3 filings. This term is only about 50 years old. For the previous 1,950 years- it was called Catholicism, Protestant Christianity and host of other labels- non “Jewish”
You said
“Neanderthals were heavily mixed in the two areas that they have cohabited (and the ONLY areas around the globe) which are the Middle East and Europe”
Answer
Forensic scientists determine the age of any skeleton by way of the rings inside the teeth. Much like we can determine the age of a tree by the rings inside it. Neanderthal shows he lived to be 300 years old which supports the biblical claim as it lays waste to the evolutionary claims. Neanderthals were pre flood humans. The only section on a human that continues growing is the head and this is why Neanderthal has a large head because this is how YOU would look if you lived to be 300.
You said
“Bible was written around 525 BC in Babylon a city by itself “
Answer
Wrong. The OT bible was written by Moses and not the Judaites after the formation of the United Kingdom of Israel and their division into north and south, and the south’s captivity in Babylon. The TALMUD was written in Babylon. You make a huge mistake mixing this up. Before going into Babylon, Judah translated the OT up to that point into Greek by way of a number of Greek and Judaite, Levite priests to keep it preserved for their return back to the land where it would again have to be reverse translated-which was done. This Greek copy is called the Septuagint and is the purest, non-screwed with by the fake Jews OT the world has. In short you have your timeline and ancient history wrong.
“The OT Bible was written by Moses.”
Yeah, like the book of Deuteronomy where he describes his own death and burial. This, by the way made people doubt Moses’ authorship for the first time.
Later on a whole science has been developed about the plural origin of the Biblical texts, but of course you have never heard about that. Naive childish faith, not critical thinking is your thing.
@Franklin Ryckaert:
You said:
Yeah, like the book of Deuteronomy where he describes his own death and burial.
Answer:
It would go without saying that this statment of mine was referencing the books before his death. Sheesh…The books of Adam and Eve were also taken out of Egypt with the Israelites which is a much more descriptive account of Adam to Noah. If one wants other books that came out of Egypt with the Israelites detailing the OT accounts read the Testaments of the Patriarchs which details the time between Jacob and Joseph. And you call me naive and not using critical thought? LOL
@Franklin Ryckaert:
I believe this thread is still open so I will try to post again. It goes without saying that Moses did not write the entire OT, only what was given him up until the time of his death. This is collaberated by the Testaments of the Patriarchs as well as the books of Eden which came out of Egypt with the Israelites. As to your comments about sacrifices- temples etc etc- this might enlighten you Franklin but I am not holding my breath. Some tiny mistakes but any fair minde non blind person should be able to grasp the meaning. http://www.amazingfacts.org/free-stuff/bible-studies/study-guides/ctl/viewmedia/mid/453/iid/2-17/lng/en/sc/w.aspx?7=god-drew-the-plans
@TyronRobertParsons:
I have looked at your linked site, unfortunately I have no Adobe Flash Player, so I can’t see the videos. Your site is one of “believers” however.
If you want to know “who wrote the Bible” you can go to : the documentary hypothesis of the Pentateuch, a site by “believers” or, better still, go to the Wikipedia article on The Documentary Hypothesis.
This only, provided you can confront the terrible possibility that the infantile fabrications of an obscure Middle Eastern tribe of goat herders are really NOT the infallible revelations of a cosmic deity. But I’m afraid you can’t.
@Franklin Ryckaert:
No point in even trying with you…You’re blind as a bat.
to TyronRobertParsons
well Franklin Ryckaert might be blind as a bat but I think that you as a man of faith ought to be less sensitive to your own sense’s accounts….so he might be the enlightened one as he opens up his functioning brain to Heraclitus saying” hear not me but the logos”…or in other words it is by auscultation (hearing if you dont get the latin wording) that you achieve to “open” your mind…but as a dogmatic character as you truly are ,you are not any better than the proselytes that you ‘blindly” follow…as for your actual assertions…I have to spare myself from the excruciating pain to really convince you about anything resembling the ‘truth’ which you are not going to ever accept…first …no hominid or humanoid would live for 300 years given the aging process and its needs in energy to work turning which it is for your knowledge a resultant form your intensive use by breathing alone to nurture and give energy for highly evolved central nervous system as we resemble much a flame by consuming our own bodies at 22% Oxygen that feeds you up to be an existing self…so as a leaf that is consumed by fire you ‘AGE” by becoming more decrepit and contracted as a burn and therefore any humanoid cycle given that we are more alike than different from these older types has to be literally impossible beyond the natural and current human life span! other of your pompous fallacies that any child from a 19 century education could explain given that there were NO contacts at all before ALEXANDER invasions in 330 BC between any tribe from the palestine sheet whole prior to this invasion with any high level greek civilization …which would be grafted only after MASSIVE education of the region first(Alexandria foundation and the greek education disseminated well after your ridiculous TIMELINE) and later by this current GLOBALIZATION (because , today there are such level of ignorance driving the popular agenda of the current rulers that emasculate the western civilization in such a misdemeanor that astonishes any crude observation….other fallacies as well are your assumption that because you believe in a historical ‘biblical’ character you sacrifice the more logical and trustful assumption that PROBABLY the whole myth of ADAM and EVE or other GENESIS stories were IN FACT COPIED from their time as SERVANTS in the oldest city of BABYLON which with huge amount of stories from the sumerian era describing all the probable story of paradise , flood ,Noah etc etc at its strange location in MESOPOTAMIA and not Egypt!!!! and were clearly REFURBISHED TO SUIT a NARRATIVE of these servants….so please enlighten me with your incredible power of logics and your amazing powers of a true SEEKER of the truth… I am not going to argue about the Neanderthals brain because you lack basic understanding on the neuroscience level as even the so called current Neuro scientists lack a meaningful model about the matter…
@alfred:
Iggaddy biggady boo…. who the f-ck are you ?
btw- from all the silence-great timing
@TyronRobertParsons: you have to practice a lot of silence because as you may have noticed you are incapable of answering any of real questions beyond the dogmatism that is leaking from your brain…you Sir are full of air…nothing consistent traverse your mouth…and dogmatism is the most important feature of the OLD EGYPT order that was transmitted to the regional stubbornness graphically seen in YOUR BIBLE and its anti NATURAL stand against LIFE and MOTION ….yes Sir..you are a slave to the remnants of the Old Egypt static pint of view on nature and its anti motion derived pseudo philosophy which abounds in the psychology of the “jews” and their ANTI GREEK STANCE…as well perceived by your infantile posturing on ALL the subsequent developments of the ENLIGHTENMENT that is the RETURN OF THE GREEK THOUGHT…and you, like the jews before, REACT exactly like them…try to bury them in a lot of misguided and unfunded PSEUDO facts….only to preserve some kind of ridiculous FALSE sense of supremacy when confronted to such VIVID and delightful and more importantly the REAL IMPORTANT HUMAN KIND ACHIEVEMENT…that is the GREEK WORLD….thank you very much and go back to your phantasy planet
@alfred:
The reason I did not answer you Alfred is because I HAVE ANSWERED ALL THIS NONSENSE ALREADY. I have done this more times that I can count on these boards. Ok fine- here we go…
You said
“first …no hominid or humanoid would live for 300 years given the aging process and its needs in energy to work turning which it is for your knowledge a resultant form your intensive use by breathing alone to nurture and give energy for highly evolved central nervous system as we resemble much a flame by consuming our own bodies at 22% Oxygen that feeds you up to be an existing self”
Answer
Than explain to me why X-ray evidence shows via forensic science that via Neanderthal’s teeth ring evidence, he hit puberty at 40 and was 300 years old. Here is a link for your perusal. As usual the religion of evolutionist have it EXACTLY backwards. We are not evolving, we devolved from our highest state pre flood. http://jackcuozzo.com/wisdom.html if you want to see this and other evidence, reference Buried Alive by Dr Jack Cuozzo.
You falsely believe that the state of the earth was the same always. We maintain that there was a much higher oxygen level and a water canopy over the earth. In such conditions with compressed high oxygen levels, it is a FACT that lizards would grow to the size of Dino’s and fruits etc would grow to be much larger too. Once the flood came spewing up from under the earth and falling down from over the earth everything changed. The result was, among many other things, man’s life span was greatly curtailed.
You said
the whole myth of ADAM and EVE or other GENESIS stories were IN FACT COPIED from their time as SERVANTS in the oldest city of BABYLON which with huge amount of stories from the Sumerian era describing all the probable story of paradise , flood ,Noah etc etc at its strange location in MESOPOTAMIA and not Egypt!!!!
Answer
After the flood, the worship of fallen angels came again (paganism). Samaria is one such location. Samaria’s mimicking (mixing truth with lies) of the actual account of Adam, Eve and the Flood is no surprise. Egypt-Babylon and ancient India’s symbols pretty much all come from Samaria. The scriptures separates the truth from within their lies and as I stated before- The Septuagint (more pure form of the OT) was translated into Greek before Judah went into Babylon (something you admit while also trying to claim the bible is BS) and when a portion of Judah came out of Babylon, they reverse translated it back into their present language.
@TyronRobertParsons: @TyronRobertParsons:
@Franklin Ryckaert:
Babylonian Exile : 597-515 BC.
Alexander the Great conquers the Middle East : 332 BC.
>> Hellenism.
Because the hellenized Jews couldn’t read Hebrew anymore the OT was translated into Greek, the Septuagint (LXX ), between 250-50 BC.
You say the Septuagint was written before the Babylonian Exile when no Jews were hellenized and therefore didn’t need a Greek Bible. Even in small things your chronology is flat wrong.
@Franklin Ryckaert:
“The Septuagint is the most ancient translation of the Old Testament and consequently is invaluable to critics for understanding and correcting the Hebrew text (Massorah), the latter, such as it has come down to us, being the text established by the Massoretes in the sixth century A.D. Many textual corruptions, additions, omissions, or transpositions must have crept into the Hebrew text between the third and second centuries B.C. and the sixth and seventh centuries of our era; the manuscripts therefore which the Seventy had at their disposal, may in places have been better than the Massoretic manuscripts.” http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13722a.htm
“During the Persian period of dominance in the Mid-East, a significant Jewish community already lived in Egypt. “Papyri from Elephantine show an established Jewish community there as early as 495 BCE. After Alexander’s conquest of the Persian Empire, Alexandria became the home to a large Greek-speaking Jewish population.”
http://www.setterfield.org/Septuagint_History.html#early
Your favorite source Wikipedia says “As narrated by Philo of Alexandria, 72 Jewish translators were enlisted to complete the translation while kept in separate chambers. According to legend, Aristeas arrived at the figure of 72 scholars by calculating the participation of six elders from each of the 12 tribes of Israel”
Between 745 and 721 bc the northern tribes with a large chunck of southern Judah were taken into captivity by the Assyrians. The remainder- the 2/3 tribes of Judah with a few Northern Israelites where taken into captivity by the Babylonians about 604 bc.
Wikipedia also states that “The Babylonian captivity (or Babylonian exile) was the period in Jewish history during which the Jews of the ancient Kingdom of Judah were captives in Babylon.
Rabbinic chronologists place the date of the destruction of the First Temple -considered the onset of the captivity[citation needed]- to be 3338 HC i.e. 423 BCE [1] or 3358 HC i.e. 403 BCE [2] while modern secular dating[who?] for it is 587–538 BCE.”
Dr Stephan Jones says “In previous years Babylon had been one of the provinces of the Assyrian empire. But Babylon was able to revolt and overthrow Assyria, capturing the capital city of Nineveh in 607 B.C. Three years later they conquered Jerusalem and Judah in 604 B.C. Yet the Babylonian Empire only lasted seventy years (607 – 537 B.C.), and Jerusalem ‘s captivity was likewise just seventy years (604-534 B.C.).”
Point? I said they TRANSLATED the OT up to that time into Greek just before the Babylonian Captvity. If the story of representatives from all 12 tribes are true, it could not have happened between 250 and 50 BC because there were not representatives of the 12 tribes in the land then. By this time all tribal affiliations from the north had merged into levi-Judah or Benjamin for over 300 some years. There were additions or revisions to the Greek Septuagint around these periods so this is the probable source to your false date of 250 to 50 bc.
@Franklin Ryckaert:
@Franklin Ryckaert:
“The Septuagint is the most ancient translation of the Old Testament and consequently is invaluable to critics for understanding and correcting the Hebrew text (Massorah), the latter, such as it has come down to us, being the text established by the Massoretes in the sixth century A.D. Many textual corruptions, additions, omissions, or transpositions must have crept into the Hebrew text between the third and second centuries B.C. and the sixth and seventh centuries of our era; the manuscripts therefore which the Seventy had at their disposal, may in places have been better than the Massoretic manuscripts.” http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13722a.htm
@Franklin Ryckaert:
Part 2
“During the Persian period of dominance in the Mid-East, a significant Jewish community already lived in Egypt. “Papyri from Elephantine show an established Jewish community there as early as 495 BCE. After Alexander’s conquest of the Persian Empire, Alexandria became the home to a large Greek-speaking Jewish population.”
http://www.setterfield.org/Septuagint_History.html#early
Your favorite source Wikipedia says “As narrated by Philo of Alexandria, 72 Jewish translators were enlisted to complete the translation while kept in separate chambers. According to legend, Aristeas arrived at the figure of 72 scholars by calculating the participation of six elders from each of the 12 tribes of Israel”
Between 745 and 721 bc the northern tribes with a large chunck of southern Judah were taken into captivity by the Assyrians. The remainder- the 2/3 tribes of Judah with a few Northern Israelites where taken into captivity by the Babylonians about 604 bc.
Wikipedia also states that “The Babylonian captivity (or Babylonian exile) was the period in Jewish history during which the Jews of the ancient Kingdom of Judah were captives in Babylon.
Rabbinic chronologists place the date of the destruction of the First Temple -considered the onset of the captivity[citation needed]- to be 3338 HC i.e. 423 BCE [1] or 3358 HC i.e. 403 BCE [2] while modern secular dating[who?] for it is 587–538 BCE.”
Dr Stephan Jones says “In previous years Babylon had been one of the provinces of the Assyrian empire. But Babylon was able to revolt and overthrow Assyria, capturing the capital city of Nineveh in 607 B.C. Three years later they conquered Jerusalem and Judah in 604 B.C. Yet the Babylonian Empire only lasted seventy years (607 – 537 B.C.), and Jerusalem ‘s captivity was likewise just seventy years (604-534 B.C.).”
Point? I said they TRANSLATED the OT up to that time into Greek just before the Babylonian Captvity. If the story of representatives from all 12 tribes are true, it could not have happened between 250 and 50 BC because there were not representatives of the 12 tribes in the land then. By this time all tribal affiliations from the north had merged into levi-Judah or Benjamin for over 300 some years. There were additions or revisions to the Greek Septuagint around these periods so this is the probable source to your false date of 250 to 50 bc
@TyronRobertParsons:
sorry to say this but you are “crazy”…your dogmatism is not at any length properly logical ie like in the first static civilization with such dogmatism deeply encoded as seen in their statues(lacking any motion and being AT REST…yes this is the meaning of being dogmatic …it is the capture and freezing of life and all motion as was translated in a logical and abstraction form by the first real philosopher of such tendency in 550 BC ie Parmenides without any link to the PRE LOGICAL THINKING in the rest of the middle east POOR thinking, which even being so dogmatic NEVER COULD HAVE TRANSCENDED ITSELF TO KNOW THAT) which is the egyptian by the way where their influence spanned unfortunately to the entire middle east and significantly to the palestinian area where we have what we have…enough of this…as I was saying you are dangerously crazy and fanatic…well let me see …DINO and others jurassic or whatever timeline you want had their huge volume because they were like BIRDS today..they had LOW DENSITY in their BONES and so on …their WEIGHT was the SOLE sponsor for their HUGE SIZE…that is it…EXCESSIVE OXYGEN like ou are trying to WRONGLY justify your ridiculous assumptions LEAD to DEATH in much FASTER THAN EVER WAY…because as I ve pointed out would lead to rapid COMBUSTION CYCLES WITHIN YOUR BODY..how many times do I need to repeat myself until you begin to THINK before you spill a lot of non sense?SAMARIA as only crated at the time of the HABIRU and they were POOR and retrograde people and DID NOT EXIST at the time of any ANCIENT EGYPT or for God sake SUMERIAN…you are full of AIR…and I am not going to explain to you anymore things…you lack knowledge in everything related to thematter with the true exception of this fanatical MISREADINGS of the bible which by any length NEVER EXISTED BEFORE 575 BC…so to compare such writings to the sumerian and egytian ones are too way into the fanatism which is by the way the jewish way of life…JEW are if we accept that these folks are what they think they are at most remnants from the sefs coming from a VERY POOR and INSIGNIFICANT region of the middle east…and they were already at the time DESCENDANTS FROM THE CURRENT ARABS FOM THE CURRENT SAUDI ARABIA which simply were the guys who invaded a lot of places from the south BECAUSE OF THE DESERTIFICATION after the end of the Ice era…simple like that and so difficult to absorb isnt?….go and learn something on the real masters of OUR PLANET the OLD GREEKS…
@alfred:
Please do not take this the wrong way. I am not doing a “Franklin” on you. Having said that, your posts have extremely long run on sentences that make it very hard to understand much of what you are saying. Just a heads up is all. Now onto the meat… but before we start, let me say at the outset that I have noticed you have failed to answer ONE SINGLE DIRECT question of mine. That is ok though, I expect it from your camp.
You said
it is the capture and freezing of life and all motion as was translated in a logical and abstraction form by the first real philosopher of such tendency in 550 BC ie Parmenides without any link to the PRE LOGICAL THINKING in the rest of the middle east POOR thinking, which even being so dogmatic NEVER COULD HAVE TRANSCENDED ITSELF TO KNOW THAT)
Answer
What can I say? If you think the first logical thinker was Parmenides, then so be it. Even Milesians, Pythagoreans, and Heraclitus predated him but none of this even touch the issues I raised.
You said
…DINO and others jurassic or whatever timeline you want had their huge volume because they were like BIRDS today..they had LOW DENSITY in their BONES and so on …their WEIGHT was the SOLE sponsor for their HUGE SIZE…that is it…EXCESSIVE OXYGEN like ou are trying to WRONGLY justify your ridiculous assumptions LEAD to DEATH in much FASTER THAN EVER WAY…
Answer
Oh ok, that is why high pressure oxygen chambers are used toward healing humans of various diseases, burns and even cancers today and enclosed high pressure rooms in Japan grow tomatoes the size of couches.
You said
EXCESSIVE OXYGEN like ou are trying to WRONGLY justify your ridiculous assumptions LEAD to DEATH in much FASTER THAN EVER WAY…because as I ve pointed out would lead to rapid COMBUSTION CYCLES
Answer
Why don’t you post a scientific study that shows that people who live in higher oxygen levels die quicker?
You said
SAMARIA as only crated at the time of the HABIRU and they were POOR and retrograde people and DID NOT EXIST at the time of any ANCIENT EGYPT
Answer
When did I say Samaria existed at the same time as Egypt? Do you like arguing with yourself? Seems so. Why don’t you post my words that said this?
You said
and I am not going to explain to you anymore things…you lack knowledge in everything related to thematter with the true exception of this fanatical MISREADINGS of the bible which by any length NEVER EXISTED BEFORE 575 BC
Answer
“The Paleo-Hebrew alphabet (Hebrew: הכתב העברי הקדום).. is an abjad offshoot of the ancient Semitic alphabet and closely related to the Phoenician alphabet from which it descends. It dates to the 10th century BCE or earlier. It was used as the main vehicle for writing the Hebrew language by the Israelites, who would later split into Jews and Samaritans.
It began to fall out of use by the Jews in the 5th century BCE when they adopted the Aramaic alphabet as their writing system for Hebrew, from which the present Jewish “square-script” Hebrew alphabet descends. The Samaritans, who now number less than one thousand people, continue to use a derivative of the Old Hebrew alphabet, known as the Samaritan alphabet.”
Look it up. You can confirm this one on Wikipedia- shoot, almost anywhere.
Whatever you seem to be smoking over there, I think you ought to stop pal…
@mike:
This scientific study just showed otherwise. European and middle eastern jews (too bad north african were not tested) come from the near east with some (minority) european elements. This makes sense since jews from JUDEA were expelled 1900 years ago and settled in southern europe. Conversion to Judaism has always been possible.