It’s hard to believe it’s been four and a half years since I wrote a column about British polymath John Derbyshire. That was well before Lehman Brothers collapsed, before the world economy teetered on the brink, before the U.S. government gave untold bailout money to the largest banks and corporations.
In my column, I was critical of Derbyshire’s views on the writings of our editor, Kevin MacDonald. The column discussed Jewish power and the taboos surrounding that very power. (See a recent account of Jewish power here —”Elena Kagan’s “diversity problem” and Jewish privilege” by Patrick Slattery.)
Derbyshire began his ruminations on MacDonald’s writings in the March 10, 2003 issue of The American Conservative under the title “The Marx of the Anti-Semites.” There his take on the books was mixed, beginning with “The Culture of Critique includes many good things. . . . Kevin MacDonald is working in an important field.” Derbyshire even validated an important point in MacDonald’s work: “These Jewish-inspired pseudoscientific phenomena that The Culture of Critique is concerned with — Boasian anthropology, psychoanalysis, the Frankfurt School, and so on — were they a net negative for America? Yes, I agree with MacDonald, they were.”
In the end, however, Derbyshire was critical. In fact, he was more critical about MacDonald’s book than was his Jewish sparring partner Joey Kurtzman, a Jewish editor of the website Jewcy.com, who came across as the greater booster of MacDonald’s work. Kurtzman wrote:
MacDonald has presented us with a fascinating and genuinely novel examination of the history and internal workings of the Jewish world. His trilogy is a hell of a read. To any Jewcy readers tired of pious, ‘hooray-for-us!’ Jewish historiography, or just interested in seeing traditional Jewish history through a kaleidoscope, I happily recommend it.
Why, however, even after Kurtzman had graciously praised the book, did Derb change direction and claim that “This is, after all, in the dictionary definition of the term, an anti-Semitic book.” Of course, Derb nowhere attempted to define “anti-Semitism,” but he did reveal the brutal politics behind discussing the topic, describing wonderfully the reality of Jewish power. In that remarkable exchange with Kurtzman, Derb shared his experiences:
So far as the consequences of ticking off Jews are concerned: First, I was making particular reference to respectable rightwing journalism, most especially in the U.S. I can absolutely assure you that anyone who made general, mildly negative, remarks about Jews would NOT — not ever again — be published in the Wall Street Journal opinion pages, The Weekly Standard, National Review, The New York Sun, The New York Post, or The Washington Times. I know the actual people, the editors, involved here, and I can assert this confidently.
Hmmm, suddenly we’ve gone from Derb valuing truth and facts to worrying about what subjectively might “tick off Jews.” It sounds to me like we’re dealing with what Bill Buckley once called “the prevailing structure of taboos.” No wonder one of the subtitles in the Kurtzman exchange was “Be Nice, or We’ll Crush You: Criticizing Jews is professional suicide.” The links to the exchange are confusing, but if you scroll to the bottom of each exchange, you can find a link for subsequent posts, one of which reads: “Thursday: The first thing you hear when you go into opinion journalism is “don’t f*ck with the Jews.”
Well, Mr. Derbyshire, based on all this, we might say that “First they came for those who wrote unkindly about the Jews.” Then, observing your own experiences this year when you were fired by National Review, we could continue, “Then they came for those who wrote unkindly about groups Jews have been using in their war against European-derived Whites.”
You were certainly judged guilty of that in your Taki Magazine essay “The Talk: Nonblack Version, where,” among other things, you wrote:
(10a) Avoid concentrations of blacks not all known to you personally.
(10b) Stay out of heavily black neighborhoods.
(10c) If planning a trip to a beach or amusement park at some date, find out whether it is likely to be swamped with blacks on that date (neglect of that one got me the closest I have ever gotten to death by gunshot).
(10d) Do not attend events likely to draw a lot of blacks.
(10e) If you are at some public event at which the number of blacks suddenly swells, leave as quickly as possible.
All very sensible, it seems to me, but obviously such truths grossly violate our “prevailing structure of taboos.” You had to go, John.
Now, in addition to still writing for Takimag, you contribute to VDARE.com and American Renaissance. Still, I notice that while you are even less afraid to break many taboos — “Gypped By Gypsies In Canada” and “Orientalia: ‘Chineseman’, ‘Chinaman’ And PC” are just two VDARE titles that break such taboos, you still seem reluctant to, in your words, “f*ck with the Jews.”
Should you now reconsider that policy?
First, as I’ve discussed, giving Jewish behavior a pass did not save your job at National Review. Second, last year you began describing your experiences with a form of lymphatic cancer. I’ve observed that in some cases, a brush with death, a close encounter with one’s own mortality, allows a person to focus on what is truly important — and sometimes to be less solicitous of prevailing taboos.
So I am here inviting you to consider making a new journey, a new crossing. You have avoided crossing the River Styx. You have also taken a boat away from the mainland of received opinion. Why not now consider a more challenging boat ride, one out to the island inhabited by the likes of Kevin MacDonald, E. Michael Jones, James Edwards, Tom Sunic, Yggdrasil, Andrew Hamilton, Greg Johnson, Michael O’Meara, myself and so many others. This is the Island of Those Who Dare to Speak Out on Jewish Power and Misbehavior.
To be sure, the weather is foul, food is hard to come by, poisonous creatures abound underfoot, and attacks both sudden and sustained batter the inhabitants. We’ve taken our casualties, too, Joseph Sobran for one. And there on the horizon sits the ship called The Southern Poverty Law Center. Beneath the waters roam submersibles and stealth craft patrol the air. Both underwater and airborne craft are funded by moneys of the state as well as private funds. Our adversaries are formidable.
I don’t know what your financial situation is, nor do I know the limits or your mental and spiritual stamina. But should you row out to us, you will be met by further trials by fire, financial assault, and maybe even assassination.
Then why do it? For starters, our cause is just and you have demonstrated at times a love of justice. Second, our enemies firmly believe that truth is whatever they want to make it (e.g., making eugenics disappear off the mainstream intellectual universe); yet you have hewn more closely to truthtelling than have most other pundits. Finally, The Prevailing Powers may be at the pinnacle of world control today, but that could change. And if it does, our supporters will be rewarded.
I’ll close with a quote from Culture Wars editor E. Michael Jones. He concludes his massive book The Jewish Revolutionary Spirit and Its Impact on World History with these thoughts of power and its impermanence: “The conversion of the Jews did not seem imminent. The Jews had never been more powerful . . . But appearances can deceive. . . . Reversal was in the air.”
Mr. Derbyshire, do the right thing with your God-given talent.
Facing the Future as a Minority
Was the Immigration Act of 1924 Illiberal?
The only thing stronger than Jewish power is the Truth.
Derb, I love your writing and your podcasts. This is certainly a topic to which you can do justice. Besides, what have you got to lose at this point?
Dear Mr. Connelly,
Here as elsewhere the generosity of your sentiments does you great credit, and the eloquence of your plea is a pleasure to read. I fear, however, that at bottom John Derbyshire isn’t the man you would have him be.
The reason that his little boat sticks close to the shore is that he wants, I truly believe, little more than the taste of adventure, the soupçon of risk. He has a comfortable bungalow a hundred yards back from the shores of conventional opinion, and a pitcher of martinis is awaiting him in the fridge in its cozy kitchen. For however many days he has left, these small but hard-won comforts are too precious to risk losing to a rough sea. A fortiori, even a day trip to Unconventional Opinion Island is out of the question.
In the big-frog-small-pond-famous column you quote at some length, JD made a pouty moue at rigid shibboleths and counted on his fellow faux–whitewater rafters to call him oh so wicked and let it go at that. As it happened, he misread his audience or overplayed his hand or both. He is paying an unexpected price for his little excursion too far from shore. He’ll watch his sail and rudder very, very closely lest he do so again, I believe.
While JD doubtless hews more closely to the truth than most creatures of the pundit species, I need hardly tell you that saying so is the smallest of the compliments you pay him. I have seen and heard him several times on C-SPAN, and the practiced air of the perpetually blasé, preternaturally worldly sophisticate that frequently comes off the pages (actual and virtual) on which his columns appear is confirmed by seeing him in the (electronic) flesh. That persona was old a week after it was new, and alas, it was new before Walter Lippmann was born.
Finally, no appeal to the Deity will cut any mustard with JD. He is a confirmed scoffer.
In sum, if Derbyshire were half the man you are, he’d be an enormous asset to our cause. He isn’t, and barring his having a Road to Damascus experience, he won’t be. Yet—and for this, thanks to the Deity JD disbelieves in!—happily we’ve got you. Put in the mathematical mode he’s fond of, JD × 2 = EC.
i would add Michael Santomauro to that list of island inhabitants. He uses his own name and makes a lot of good points.
His experiences show us, yet again, that giving the Jews a relatively free pass in the whole debate does not earn you a single ounce of reprieve. Look at the way the BNP and Geert Wilders have been continually demonised by the mainstream media, despite adopting increasingly philo-Semitic stances.
Bottom line… if Derbyshire is as good as people on here think AND he feels strongly enough about our survival to be actively involved, then he should attack our problems at the root. No compromises, no concessions, no appeasements, the Jewish Question is absolutely ESSENTIAL to our survival as a people.
I think derbyshire really is a philosemite. I don’t see how one could share his sphere of interests(mathematics, science, technology–read his book on thr riemann hypothesis, algebra?)without having some admiration for Jews. Besides, such activity would be unwise given his close family connections.
Of note:
Geert Wilders is a proud zionist jew who wears his little skullcap to speak to brethren. He is a Trojan Horse.
BNP embraces jews. How can BNP make a difference when it allows the enemy in his camp?
Did FoxNews and the so-called liberal media condemn Brevik? Brevik is an israhell lover?
If he had been anti-israhell that story would still be on the air.
Beware of pro-white jews!
Derb reckons a few Jews need to be placated and enriched if you want your own thing to succeed. It’s realistic. He may love em or loath em, but calculates that complete expulsion is impossible.
Derbyshire is a typical Englishman: aloof and pragmatic. His country has been the nexus of jewish power for three centuries, and his ancestors went around the world invading the third world to secure jewish financial interests. The English can’t be helped. They’re a lousy people and the European race is better-off without them.
What connects invading the third world and Jewish interests?
The USA itself was built by replacing “third world” Indians with Yeoman farmers. Australia, perhaps the whitest nation around (up til the last decade) was founded by displacing Aboos with farmers. This was in a sense a third world conquest. The Brits gave whites an extended summer.
The Empire itself was white supremacist by definition. One that Germans pitched into the darkness by repeated attempts in ww1 and 2 to unify the
continent under a variety of self serving hypocritical ideologies. Prince Albert was a German prince, one among many as it should have stayed.
The EU is just the lastest sick manifestation of this urge. The Prussians were much better than a unified Germany.
@fender:
Well, let’s see, Fender, you’ve let us know here that the Greek people and the Italian people are not any good as White people. And now you are informing us about the English, “They’re a lousy people and the European race is better-off without them”. And of course you made real clear to us that any Christians are a total loss to the White cause. So WHO ARE the real White people? — enquiring minds would like to know!
The problem with the idea of Lebensraum is that it was designed to fit over other white people’s lands. At least the British Empire allowed white populations to seize land from assorted blacks and reds and then expand in number.
Lebensraum was a few centuries late.
@Edmund Connelly
Excellent appeal, good for you- right on dude!
There is no point not taking a stand because the system is set up to kill us off anyhow. If one is in fear, they might delay the inevitabe but then what? They have been given a choice by the so called jews between a slow death and possibly a quick one. What kind of “choice” is that? As the throughly Christian European American Patrick Henry said “What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!”
>>>So WHO ARE the real White people? — enquiring minds would like to know!>>>
The fender family, of course.
Dude Derbyshire answered you in his latest article for VDARE. The First Sentence is about how he goes to New York City for His Dinner Club and chats with jews on how exactly the downfall of whites will occur.
And also, he doesn’t have any god given talent. Everyone acts as if he’s god’s gift to writer-ville but his articles are bland and stupid and ill thought out, and lacking any ‘oomph’ of any feeling whatsoever. He’s really rather worthless. I dont know why everyone insists on licking his ego.
I’m new to this site but not new to Jew controls. Stating the truth about their Zionist agenda might take more fortitude
for some.
I say screw it.. do whats right for your country & its white race.
I understand that coming to appreciate some the dangerous views expressed at places like TOO or Amren is a journey, not a step, and it’s a scary journey, at that. I’m more comfortable, however, with writers who’ve come to their publicly expressed opinions honestly. The people who “finally speak the truth” because they’ve been booted out of their more prestigious gig at the National Review will always be a little suspect, in my mind.
I do wish Mr. Derbyshire the best in his fight against cancer, though, and my prayerful thoughts go out to him.
@fender:
Fender, you have moments of perspicacity which I find touching.
@thm:
I didn’t mention the Italians. Italians are White, the northern ones especially. My comments about Greeks are simply based on history.
The English are White too, but they’re senile Whites. Same as the Scandinavians. Christian Whites are Whites as well, just ones that have the wrong ideas and wrong attitude.
Look, we as Whites have precise problems, and we need precise solutions. This democratic idea that all Whites are good and all White methods of combating dispossession are good are simply wrong.
@Dude:
One thing remarkable about Derb is his utterly low class english accent, he wouldnt be allowed into most dinner clubs in London, and his pretnse of intellectuality would be laughed at. So his ambition took him to the usa where his pretnesions are almost believable to the cretin yanks, and his ‘rules’ article on the lowlife swarthy greek blog taki just proved the point, accuracies stated without class , of the old fashioned american wasp type, doomed him to an ignominious end, despite his subservience to his peers in the yiddish speaking diaspora. He is the lower middle class englishman equivalent of don rickles, amusing but only to a point. Hes played the sabbath goy for too long, he’ll never escape that long dreary habit.
But in truth, it is exactly this british type, the smug babbit swaggering red coat that made the british empire. Thank God we Americans tarred and feathered these pretenders and drove them from our continent. Sadly, not for long, as they returned along with their rothschild bankers.
@fender:
good vs bad
right versus wrong
nice dualistic compartments of your construction, into which human nature refuses to fit.
who is the Judge?
@Dude: Touché. I just read Derby’s VDARE piece. This statement is representative:
“A nation can dwell in a state of complete rejection of reality for decades—e.g. North Korea—perhaps centuries. The key is totalitarian levels of control over opinion.”
I submit there is no way — NO WAY — that Derbyshire does not recognize the Tribe iron fist in the growth and employment of totalitarianism in the West. It is simply too obvious . . . and we saw the same thing in Eastern Europe less than a decade ago.
I confess I can’t understand what mental gyrations Derb must employ to be able to calmly sup with those people, people who hold the power over his ability to publish, even to own a home and feed his family. Does he really believe they will not eventually come for him?
@Edmund Connelly: Fearfull, half-hearted people, that want to take on big and often dangerous issues, are never really effective in anything they do, and the tragic part is, they NEVER, fool their enemies. NEVER!! Instead, when the fatefull day comes, decided by their stronger adversaries, they will be quietly taken away.
That is why I stated on another blog, that people who involve themselves in these things, best not believe they do so without potential consequences, because sure as it’s sunny in Southern California, there is no privacy and every statement on this internet is being monitored. You can bet on it and bet big. I just read that there is an alternative net being created, for the purpose of hopefully preventing all of the known spying that is going on in almost every country in the world against their citizens.
@Elric!: I don’t buy the Derb-love either, I find him rather cowardly and in his circle race is just chattering class stuff anyway, nothing seriously political. But besides that he really has been consistent – low ethnocentrism coupled with an affection for high IQ people regardless of race. His philosemitism is real and logically consistent, not tacked on to please the jews.
“This is, after all, in the dictionary definition of the term, an anti-Semitic book.”
I’m not sure that this isn’t a swipe at the dictionary as much as MacDonald. Quite an artful piece of ambiguity.
@Skadhi_the_Raverner:
Exactly, that is why he works for the Jews and is married with a Chinese woman without any problem. With “friends” like these…
@Skadhi_the_Raverner: Oh, I like Derbyshire okay, find him very brilliant and entertaining, but I don’t think he could be a true White Nationalist in the sense of this website. Clearly by his choice of spouse, he is a part of the postmodern, deracinated “meritocratic” elite. There seems to be this growing Anglo/Jewish/Amerasian hybrid elite academic class. I’ll bet in the coming generations, many of the movers/shakers/”great minds” will come from this hybrid class. I wonder if we are seeing a sort of ethnogenesis.
.
John Derbyshire is a LOXIST.
.
@Graham Wellington: Thanks for enriching my lexicon.☺
That’s brilliant. Loxismo: A virile, hairy chested medallion wearing but oily and overweight disgusting Jewish enthnochauvenism. See Ron Jeremy.
@Edmund Connelly:
Why would they “come for him”? Derbyshire has always defended jewish interests and will continue to do so. He knows how to frame things in a way that appeals to paleocons and WNs, and that makes him very valuable to the jews. Even his “firing” from National Review may have been a calculated PR stunt, as it certainly boosted his name recognition and credibility, and will most likely boost sales of his current and any future books.
I am amazed at how many people who seem like they should know better really think these jew-funded conservatives like John Derbyshire, Pat Buchanan, or even Glenn Beck are really “on our side”. They are feeding us poison disguised as medicine, and people around here thank them for trying to help us. Get a clue, folks.
@Trenchant: @Trenchant:
“Loxism” simply means Jewish supremacism and “anti-Semitism” is the reaction against that.
@buckle: I enjoyed this comment of yours (I can’t think of any such I haven’t, now that I think on it), but not myself being an Englishman, a Scot, or a member of any of the other peoples of the Western Isles, permit me a bit of a eulogistic ramble for at least a few of them, a ramble that you might regard as infra dig to indulge in yourself.
However right fender may be about Britons’ tendency to be easily led by the Tribe (in fact, I think he overgeneralizes here way, way too much, unaptly applying the sad lesson of Churchill’s century and Cromwell’s three hundred years earlier to centuries and activities before and between), he sadly scants what the anthropologist Robert Edgerton, writing in The Fall of the Asante Empire, refers to as the virtually unimaginable gallantry under fire of the British officer class in one African conflict after another.
I have been as insistent as anyone hereabouts that brains tend to trump brawn when they meet head to head, but I’d be even more of a fool than I sometimes am if I were to fail to note that neither brains nor brawn will get us very far nowadays without a rapid and radical recrudescence of the courage in the face of the enemy that the sons of the English aristocracy exhibited in foreign parts over the long duration of the world’s largest empire ever.
They may have been fools to be led by the nose, but foolishness is hardly a rara avis in terra. Courage, however, is rarer and more precious than diamonds.
Very well said, Mr. Connelly. To give the Derb his due, he has written his share of unpopular material, and suffered the inevitable ostracism and monetary punishment more keenly than most. Since he is a professional writer, and what you are suggesting is most likely going to mean the end of his writing career, its a very difficult proposition.
I think that the vdare/AR crowd has its purpose and place in the WN movement. This “light” version of Nationalism is a stepping stone in the education process, and probably a necessary one at that.
If John Derbyshire fails to heed your words, let him drift alone in the dangerous seas with what few philo-Semitic allies he has left, he is obvious not someone that really matters if he can’t spit out the truth. You don’t need him and our cause will be better without him. He would be nothing but a weak link, why risk taking someone like him in?
Derbyshire is an old man, if he hasn’t grown a set of testicles yet it is more than unlikely that he will now.
Even if he did feign an about face and address the JQ , what makes you sure he would actually mean anything he would say? He gets paid to write words whether they mean anything or not, he doesn’t seem to have any genuine idealism in his aged bones at all. What he says doesn’t matter, he is a distraction from important writings, like what is presented here on this site.
The guy is married to an oriental so red flags are waving all around him already.
The guy is fired!
@Random:
I don’t know much about Derbyshire. Glen Beck can be so silly I get turned off, but I don’t see Pat Buchanan as anything like them. He is a highly intelligent man who wants the right thing for America. He’s diplomatic, if that’s what you don’t like about him. Let’s face it…if we got up before a huge crowd of people and gave a speech the way we write here people would be so stunned they would reject us out of hand. Even I, who can be pretty blunt, soften my words for the delicate minded. We have got to find a way to inspire the people to rise up against this horrendous injustice the Jews and their ilk are perpetrating on us by appealing to their sense of righteousness and decency.
@Heather Blue:
How do you know what he wants? What if he’s just making you think that he wants that?
Was he being diplomatic when he chose Ezola Foster as a running mate? How about putting that Epstein guy (half-jew/half-Korean) in charge of his foundation? Or when he sold his magazine to jew Ron Unz? Exactly how many times does Pat have to brazenly stab his supporters in the back before people start questioning his motives?
Pat Buchanan is rich (to the tune of $40 million if I’m not mistaken), has no children, and isn’t getting any younger. What’s he doing with his wealth and fame to advance our cause? Contrast that with what most of us here would do if we were in his shoes, and then tell me that Pat is really “on our side”.
I don’t think that’s true at all. I think if you had an entertaining personality on a show formatted similar to Glenn Beck, but dishing out truth about race and jewish power, it would be the most popular thing on television. Similarly, if Buchanan came out with a book that really pulled no punches, it would probably be his best seller ever. You ought to question why he doesn’t do that.
Doesn’t this guy have a gook wife?
@babbit sabbath goy:
Nobody has heard of “Derb” in England. Equally baffling to the English was the success of the late Hitchens in your country. To us he was an anachronism as in a left wing toff. His brother, Peter, has matured remarkably in recent years and is worth reading on occasion but lacks a constituency.
@fender:
I wonder if you are aware that Leo Fender himself was half Greek. Will you start posting as “les paul” now?
@buckle: I loved Hitch’s gift for language and his tendency to say it as was, for him, as he stood up for what he believed to be social injustices.
I could not, however, come to terms with his friendship with Wolfowitz;
that Hitch continued to chain smoke until he died of oesophagus cancer, which killed his father before him, one has to wonder about this thing called ‘intelligence’.
@Honeybun: Right that’s what I’m worried about – whether they’re race aware or not, the new meritocratic elite look down upon less well off whites much as they do to blacks. Is this what I want my children to grow up under, when this wolf has cubs?
Despite my own IQ being higher than the Derb’s when I do online IQ tests, this new, deracialised high IQ elite see people from my *background* ambiguously at best, so I apply the same principles to them as to any other outsiders.
What’s good about race realism anyway, if you’re not going to turn the knowledge to your people’s advantage? The HBD stuff is interesting but science only explains what we’re seeing and feeling, so if everything’s going to depend only on whats put into practice and the mere explanation of phenomena is besides the point. Swiss Mister over at AR pointed out the Derb fights for facts and evidence, well another word for that is ‘trivia’.
@Random:Brother Random deserves a standing ovation for the well-deserved spanking he just put on Patty girl’s backside.
I, too, am continually amazed – and bewildered – by how this Buchanan guy can continue to be showered with praise and idol-worship by White race realists who should by now have seen enough of this guy’s treachery to get a handle on what he really is.
I am convinced he picked Foster as a favor to the GOP that he claimed to have left. He jumped on a hand grenade, and deliberately destroyed the Reform Party – mission accomplished. Best and most promising third party to come along in decades, and now it’s disappeared.
Look at how the neo-con infested GOP did a number on the Ron Paul faction. This might cost these idiots the election in November, because I doubt they can win without the support of the Paul voters.
Obama will be reelected… By the end of this decade we going to see the start of the White Revolution…
@Skadhi_the_Raverner:
Interesting points. I agree that HBD and the science behind it are fascinating, but not sufficient for Whites to save themselves. You referenced the new deracialized elite, but I note that they do continue to see one race – Whites. They could not possibly target them as consistently as they do, for “diversity”, “inclusion” and “integration” without an agenda.
Notice, they do not try to bring diversity to Detroit. They don’t say we need to ship millions of Whites into Tijuana. There is no plan to bring more races to Japan. It is only White schools, communities, neighborhoods, cities and countries that must be subjected to diversity, and it is all of them.
In 50 years, when there are no White majority countries left, there will still be over 40 black African nations. All of Asia will remain Asian. The demographics of the Middle East and Latin America won’t chang. So, who’s fooling who? It’s an Anti-White agenda.
@Skadhi_the_Raverner: IQ, in adults at least, is something that must be proven with deeds. IQ/aptitude tests in young people are only a measure of potential.
@Skadhi_the_Raverner:
OK Skadhi, you have made us curious. What is the IQ of John Derbyshire ( source please) and what scores do you yourself make on on-line IQ tests? (don’t be modest). And why don’t you come here more often than on Alternative Right, since our intellectual level is higher?
@Honeybun:
All tests by definition only measure potential.
@Graham Wellington:
Loxism — a new one for me. “Professor Katz” — nails a familiar type.
I must say you guys are a hard driving crowd with a rather stringently defined in-group. Merciless tests for orthodoxy with the corresponding liberally applied identification of enemies of the cause, traitors, and double-agents may have been a signature feature of communist organizations but it has no use in our ranks. We should never fail to speak the truth fully and courageously, but at the same time demonstrate patience and generosity to those who we feel may fall short.
It is difficult to know what’s in Mr. Derbeyshire’s heart and the extent to which his persona is carefully crafted and maintained. Certainly his remarks on Dr. McDonald’s work are not inspiring, but they hardly warrant the vitriol that has landed in his lap on this thread. Sadly, even some of the most thoughtful and noble veterans of this board have made unexpectedly harsh, hyperbole-laden attacks.
The contempt that many on this board harbor for Vdare and AmRen and other manifestations of “WN-lite” emerges from roughly the exact same region of the soul as the contempt of fundamentalist believers towards their liberal brethren or of hardliner Marxists for their bourgeois-compromised comrades. Human, all too human.
The Chicago jewish establishment made Obama (their own words).
One longtime Jewish observer of the political scene, who did not want to be identified, said admiringly that “Jews made him. Wherever you look, there is a Jewish presence.”
http://www.chicagojewishnews.com/story.htm?id=252218&sid=212226
They’ill regret this.
@Hooper:
So let’s stay “human all too human” then. Keep in mind that great things in history are achieved by small tightly knit “fanatic” groups, never by loosly associated “tolerant” groups. That’s the way the Jews have achieved their remarkable success. We could do the same, in a constructive way of course.
@Franklin Ryckaert: I am not sure that’s the contrast I had in mind. And “tolerant” is a very loaded word these days, as you well know. Remind me of any long-term accomplishments from small, fanatical in-groups. I can’t think of any…the Jacobins, the Bolsheviks…
In any case, we are trying to build a new aristocracy, not a revolutionary squadron. We need virtue, not fanaticism. The day will be won or lost to the extent that we become an inspiring presence to our people, not whether we have a screening process like the Royal Ballet.
@Hooper:
I have nothing against building a “new aristocracy”. That is good for building a new culture ( or “meta-politics”), but if you want regime change you do need a “revolutionary squadron”. If your aims are constructive then your results will last, unlike the Jacobins or Bolsheviks.
@Hooper,
As tolerance is a virtue, I urge you to reconsider your level of tolerance for the fanatics. The ideal state of a movement is probably a rainbow of different groups, which span a range of attitudes and opinions, and thus maximize appeal. The most successful revolutionary movements in the past century (mostly Jewish-inspired ones) have always had a fanatic fringe. These are typically the people with the passion, energy, true principles and vision that give life to a movement. They push the movement in the right (more extreme) direction, polarizing its members. There are many examples, but if you want a successful one (but not a person whose goals I admire) look at Meier Kahane, the Jewish ultra-nationalist figure, who led a movement to transform Israel’s politics, moving them to the extreme right. It was successful in part because he and his crew demanded that the establishment change, that it move in his direction. And it worked, Israel is very right-wing, and still moving in that direction. Political parties typically get their energy, vitality and most of their real agenda from their extreme wing.
Now, as far as fanatics go, the posters here are “fanatics-lite”, they are probably not doing enough. Meir Kahane’s crowd would have be marching on Capitol Hill with torches and pitchforks and screaming at the Derb as they besieged his house, among other things. We aren’t quite there yet, but its a start.
Nevertheless, I do agree that vdare/AR are necessary as entryways to the movement, I think the educational path is generally 4 steps, Republican-Limbaugh Conservative-Race Realist-White Nationalist.
@ Ed Connelly
Ed Connelly wrote:
“So I am here inviting you to consider making a new journey, a new crossing. You have avoided crossing the River Styx. You have also taken a boat away from the mainland of received opinion. Why not now consider a more challenging boat ride, one out to the island inhabited by the likes of Kevin MacDonald, E. Michael Jones, James Edwards, Tom Sunic, Yggdrasil, Andrew Hamilton, Greg Johnson, Michael O’Meara, myself and so many others. This is the Island of Those Who Dare to Speak Out on Jewish Power and Misbehavior.”
Well, since you are inviting John Derbeyshire into White territory I couldn’t help buy wonder if he would need to come alone or if you would permit him to bring his Asian wife pictured at the link below.
Which is it, Ed?
Foreigners Are Like Seasoning, Put in Too Much and You Ruin the Soup: John Derbyshire
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/foreigners-are-seasoning-put-too-much-and-you-ruin-soup-john-derbyshire
@Andrew: That’s a good post. Point well taken.
@Franklin Ryckaert: I don’t know a source for the Derb’s IQ but I read his score is over 130. This was back at the time of his sacking from NR when some idiot leftist criticised Derbyshire for being obsessed with IQ when his own is ‘only’ in the 130s. Of course people who know their psychometrics called the prick out on this – whatever people might say about the Derb, he’s no dumbass! A score over 130 is smarter than average, but not genius level, its just that I don’t get the high IQ obsession that a few points extra is something especially good. Last time I checked my IQ online, my own score was in the upper 150s, but while I accept IQ ‘means something’ and is (largely) hereditary, I’m think people overrate its importance. Sure, G might help solve problems, its abuse can also make things far worse, I’m sure we all see enough intelligent people believing all kinds of nonsense, and suffer through them.
Another way of saying this is that the worst stupidity isn’t because of low G, smart people are just stupid in a different way, but they’re still fucking dumb…
On AltRight, I like playing with SwissMister lol. I also like the articles especially if Colin Liddell’s written ‘em, and I prefer the Disqus comments system to this one, too.
@Hooper: I wonder about the utility of the more “moderate” groups if they highlight the obvious symptoms of the malaise whilst obfuscating the ultimate cause thereof. No cure is possible without an accurate diagnosis.
@mark: I fail to see the connection between opposing free immigration and coerced association in the public sphere and the private sphere marriage to an Asian.
@Trenchant:
Trenchant wrote:
“@mark: I fail to see the connection between opposing free immigration and coerced association in the public sphere and the private sphere marriage to an Asian.”
You’re a conservative, right?
The connection is that those who don’t want non-white immigration almost always don’t want race-mixing. Those who can’t make that connection don’t belong in an all-White society.
The connection is that for those who want to live in a White society that means excluding all non-whites whether they are here “legally” or not. That means that we take a racist position not a conservative one. It means we have an all-White society, not a mostly White society.
The position you are taking here is a conservative one and is the same one that the John Birch Society takes on many issues: They don’t mind many things that are happening in American society, they just don’t want to be FORCED into it. They want to be able to it of their own free will. If Whites become extinct because of miscegenation, and if that occurred legally according to their beloved U.S. Constitution, that is just fine with them—as long as they were able to do it freely.
John Derbyshire is a pathetic White conservative. He has no business living in a White society. Most of the people who read TOO are racists and are opposed to miscegenation. Are you not opposed to it, or is it that you just don’t want to be “coerced” into it, you just don’t want to be “coerced” into living next to non-whites ?
@mark:
To be Honest
and
For What it is Worth (with a wink and a nod to my good neighbour, Noble Lord):
I had never heard of this person, Mr Derbyshire, until I read this article.
I have been reading: the article and the comments,
and learning new ‘facts’, tempered by discussion and opposing ‘facts’.
I followed the link to a photo of this person Derbyshire, and his Chinese wife.
When I looked at the photo, all I could think of, was Lang Hancock, and his Filipino 2nd wife, Rose now Porteous.
You say ‘pathetic white man’, and I do not know about Derbyshire.
I just know that seems to be the way ageing, starting at forty sommething, western white men go….
they love the compliant subservient, fantastic sex these ladies offer
when they simply can’t tolerate white women, and I have heard and read plenty of words on that subject alone.
For those of you unfamiliar with Lang Hancock, his daughter by his first marriage, Gina Hancock, is now one of the richest (and troubled) women in this world.
Recently Gina made an attempt at broadcasting ownership in Australia…
Fairfax.
Christianity says that we should be ‘equally yoked’; in my xx decades of Life on Earth, I know this to be ‘God’ (good advice)
But when the hormones are raging, who pays attention to these details?
@mark: Yes, “coerced” is what I find objectionable. Anarchist rather than constitutionalist. If the incentives and disincentives were not skewed by bad policy, white extinction wouldn’t even be a topic for discussion.
And as for miscegenation, birds of a feather naturally flock together, I don’t see any risk of that changing.
@Trenchant:
Trenchant wrote:
“@mark: Yes, “coerced” is what I find objectionable. Anarchist rather than constitutionalist. If the incentives and disincentives were not skewed by bad policy, white extinction wouldn’t even be a topic for discussion.”
Anarchy is also incompatible with White survival. We need a large, strong, racially-oriented government to set and enforce many policies. Anarchy isn’t going to get the job done.
“And as for miscegenation, birds of a feather naturally flock together, I don’t see any risk of that changing.”
Yes, that’s true, but we can and must exclude race-mixers from White society so that our values are clearly understood and so that they don’t set a bad example for anyone else, especially young people. It’s an all-White society, not a mostly White society.
BTW, there’s no such thing as the “private sphere” when it comes to White marriage, White reproduction, and White survival. There’s only the group sphere. The “private sphere” idea is a conservative idea, a libertarian idea. It is incompatible with White racial survival, and has no place in a White world where we are fighting a global war of extermination against non-whites.
@Trenchant:
But there is always a risk. When two different races live together in one society miscegenation always happens, no matter how strong the social, cultural, religious or even legal restrictions are. In every generation some miscegenation always takes place. Cumulative over the centuries this will result in a mixed population. Social separation never really works. See how the Indian caste system with its strict rules has not prevented the Aryans from disappearing. Only territorial separation really works. The essence of all our discussions on this forum is exactly this territorial problem.
I am completely unsure as to whether the news I have just heard is ON/OFF topic:
however, it is music to me:
Australia’s Aboriginal People have issued a passport to Julian Assange, where our Federal Govt says it has extended offers of ‘support’, when we all know that papers have been signed with Washington for extradition proceedings.
We simply cannot trust ‘our own’, as some of us here, have acknowledged.
@mark:
That is an unfortunate formulation of the problem. Not the non-Whites are trying to exterminate us, it is white politicians who are allowing them to immigrate and who are forcing integration upon us. The battle is therefore one of Whites against Whites.
@Franklin Ryckaert:
Yes, White politicians are the facilitators, but it is the non-whites who when they mix with a White person produce the mud race.
The race traitors in our own ranks have to go along with the non-whites.
@mark:Good luck taking over Washington.
@Franklin Ryckaert: Territorial problems don’t exist for my living room! Territorial encroachment is result of government control over public space, not private individuals. If I entered your yard uninvited, I’d expect to receive some buckshot for my efforts. This might give me pause to think about my actions.
@mark:Given the nation state as an widespread institution is only a couple of hundred years old, how do you explain the white race’s historical evolution?
The nation state from Napoleon and Bismarck on, with its compulsion conscription (without which wars certainly would have been smaller) and public schooling, has been a disaster for white demographics.
@Franklin Ryckaert: I don’t know a source for the Derb’s IQ but I read his score is over 130. This was back at the time of his sacking from NR when some idiot leftist criticised Derbyshire for being obsessed with IQ when his own is ‘only’ in the 130s. Of course people who know their psychometrics called the prick out on this – whatever people might say about the Derb, he’s no idiot! A score over 130 is smarter than average (but not genius level), its just that I don’t get the high IQ obsession that a few points extra is something especially good. Last time I checked my IQ online, my own score was in the upper 150s, but while I accept IQ ‘means something’ and is (largely) hereditary, I’m think people overrate its importance.
Sure, G might help solve problems, its abuse can also make things far worse, I’m sure we all see enough intelligent people believing all kinds of nonsense, and suffer through them.
Another way of saying this is that the worst stupidity isn’t because of low G, smart people are just stupid in a different way, but they’re still dumb…
On AltRight, I like playing with SwissMister lol. I also like the articles especially if Colin Liddell’s written ‘em, and I personally prefer the Disqus comments system there to this one, too.
@Trenchant:
You’re trying to make our struggle rocket science when it isn’t.
Compulsory military service for men and public schooling are fine in an all-White society. The school curricula would all be racially oriented. The military would understand that they are protecting their race, not some foreign regime.
Here’s another White male conservative who has adopted several dirt clods. Perhaps we should give him an invitation to be a TOO writer.
GOP Rep. calls Planned Parenthood ‘racist’ baby killers
http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/09/14/13863666-gop-rep-calls-planned-parenthood-racist-baby-killers?lite
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Huelskamp
@Trenchant:
That is a succinct summary of the hyper-individualistic mentality of many Western men which is increasingly becoming problematic.
Every individual is biologically and culturally the product of a population, no matter how “unique” he considers himself. For a population to keep its identity intact it needs an exclusive territory. If you live as the only individual of a certain identity among an overwhelming majority of aliens, then that means isolation, rootlesness and ultimately meaninglessness.
@ Mark
Agreed. If a white person still wants to marry a non-white, he can do so. Only he”ll have to emigrate to a non-white country. Same with couples who want to adopt non-white babies. People should only be allowed to “opt-out” of the white race, never “opt-in”.
@Franklin Ryckaert: No, it’s just that the living room is the only place where I can exert any effective control over ingress. My argument is not that this lack of control is good, but that the same control could be projected further than the purely personal if there were less monopolization of territory by the State.
One sees this approximated by gated communities.
@mark:@mark: “BTW, there’s no such thing as the “private sphere” when it comes to White marriage, White reproduction, and White survival. There’s only the group sphere.”
In that case, I fear your group will be quite small, and inconsequential in demographic terms.
@mark:
And you are trying to “simplify” it to the point where white people are the slaves of a homegrown version of Tamerlane or some other absolute Oriental potentate. Do you truly see yourself or anyone you care about as a beneficiary of such a “simple” system?
My unscientific suspicion is that, at bottom, like Hadding Scott, Farnham O’Reilly, and far too many others, in the still, small hours of the night you see group-think as a great idea for the other guys. Like Robespierre—known to his terrified admirers as L’incorruptible—you see yourself, not as a guide, philosopher, or friend to other white people, but as their ruler; at the very least as a member of a ruling junta.
All the evidence of history and human psychology shout in unison: chain the masters with hoops of steel. Neither you nor any other waiting-in-the-wings ruler of a new or revived white nation has demonstrated to anyone’s satisfaction that a lily-white omnipotent state will be any more omnicompetent than our present Jewish-run ones.
Only a fool seeks to embrace a new slavery after escaping an old.
@Trenchant:
@Trenchant
There will be plenty of room for individual thinking in other areas (that do not threaten the group), but not in the area of sexual contact between Whites and non-whites.
The coming White demographics will, as you’ve indicated, be smaller. That will be a good thing.
@Pierre de Craon:
I’m trying to simplify it to the point where our race cannot be threatened ever again. Individualism has gotten us to where we are now. More of the same can only be harmful.
Yes, there will be a big government that will serve as a protector of the population. It has to be that way to avoid repeating the mistakes we’ve made thus far. Small government may have served the so-called Founding Fathers, but there weren’t very many of them and that was light years ago. But, hey, you don’t have to live in the large government sector. You can go somewhere else.
Concerning the rest of your post: Boy, you are just filled with philosophical nonsense this morning, aren’t you? But that’s why you are here posting on TOO, isn’t it? You’re one of those guys who love to impress people with how much you think you know about history and philosophy. It’s an ego trip for you isn’t it, to get lots of complements about your posts, people blowing smoke up your ass, etc.
@Hooper: “The contempt that many on this board harbor for Vdare and AmRen and other manifestations of “WN-lite” emerges from roughly the exact same region of the soul as the contempt of fundamentalist believers towards their liberal brethren or of hardliner Marxists for their bourgeois-compromised comrades. Human, all too human.”
Well said, Hooper.
There is a tiny, insular group of commenters who almost live here, cut off from reality by what looks to me to be their fears and prejudices. This cabal have appointed themselves TOO’s thought police. They accept no deviation from their well-trodden path towards futility, and ultimately their own destruction, principally because of these shared prejudices.
Not that I find anything wrong with prejudice built on facts and life’s lessons…
Prejudice built on a sand bed of ignorance is what I have trouble with.
It’s the primary reason I’ve cut back offering opinions here even though I am still almost always impressed by the quality of the thinking contained in the articles published by TOO and by many of those who comment thoughtfully or with the expectation that they can learn here.
@Pierre de Craon: “Only a fool seeks to embrace a new slavery after escaping an old.”
Wonderful post.
So take the ‘your intolerant of Derbyshire means your just the right’s version of anti-fascist action’ Moral Superiority and Shove It.
Cuz it’s not true. The only thing we’re intolerant of is moral superiority, snoobery and logic/word game arguments that try to belittle our feelings.
In 1999 I wrote to Mr Derbyshire in a response to an article he had written, and linked to the AR review of Culture of Critique. I was stunned and shocked, my friendly intended communication was responded to with vile, hateful, insulting language and with a degree of philo-Semitism that, to this day, is vivid in my memory. A vile creature and for Brimelow to beg money for him, this miscegenationist, this cover man for the Jewish Genocide program for Whtes, troubles me.
Has anyone vetted Derbyshire’s genetic background?
@mark: You give me more credit than I seek or deserve. Everyone sounds impressive replying to you.
@Guy Francis:
You suspect he is (partly) Jewish? I think he is simply a gentile version of the well known Jewish type of the “rootless cosmopolitan”. Such people often not only admire Jews but also interiorize their characteristics complete with their paranoia. If you still have preserved his vile, hatefull answer we’ll be interested you publish it. Will give us a glimpse into his soul.
@Franklin Ryckaert:
Back in those days I didn’t save files, never realizing just how important some documents might be. Alas that is not the only document I’ve not saved that, in retrospect, I wish I had as so much has gone down the memoryhole. I just thought everything would stay there on the web, but some things “disappear”, in the case of the email that was just my own naivete.
@mark: What I said in my initial response was a cheap shot, and I apologize for it.
As for your equally pointless insults, they fail to conceal that your evident ignorance of or absence of interest in history, philosophy, and psychology disqualify you from either a leadership position in the totalitarian white society you envision or, what is more, any capacity to dictate to others on this thread the proper form a white or even white-friendly state or society should take.
The USA has no, repeat no, experience of limited government even in the reported memory of anyone now living. If you read any serious study of the Articles of Confederation or of the period connecting it with the Convention of 1787, you will see that Washington, Adams, Franklin, Madison, and every other man of position and “sense” alive at the time regarded the decentralizing tendencies of the Revolution and the Articles as far too dangerous to be allowed to persist. To remedy the situation, they conspired—there is no other word for it—to nourish a situation where disorder prevailed to a great enough extent that it (the disorder) could be done away with once and for all. The Constitution was the instrument of that permanent doing-away-with.
Patrick Henry and George Mason were correct. With the ratification of the Constitution, a permanent end to limited government and individual freedom became simply a matter of time.
I have no appetite for a government less limited than any of the present governments in the formerly Christian West—or for that matter, here in the USA. Nor should you. That you evidently do is not a little scary.
@Dude: When you said :
“The only thing we’re intolerant of is moral superiority, snoobery and logic/word game arguments that try to belittle our feelings”
ypu said it so well, I am hooting with laughter, as I had been reading and thinking on the issues here at TOO, and the aristocratic hierarchy pf government proposed by some contributors.
My thoughts there, are that the beefy/beery plebeian thugs would make short work of these self-appointed ‘aristocrats’.
@Hooper: If you mean to include me in your very politely worded criticism, I’ll simply have to plead guilty to a very low opinion of Derbyshire. For the reasons I stated—and more recently for others (cf. Guy Francis’s comment)—I simply don’t trust the guy. He’s another one setting the limits of respectable debate, and he’s setting them in such a fashion that you and I and most others who comment occasionally here are well beyond the pale.
I think you may be aware that I think very highly of Peter Brimelow, and I think highly, too, of what he is now and has long been trying to do at VDARE. I do not begrudge him his vision of an anti-immigration collective, even though he goes out of his way to include a few regular writers I deplore (Malkin and Walker, for two) and others, like Derbyshire, whose value seems to reside solely in pissing off the National Review crowd (heaven knows that’s not an ignoble exercise). His focus, while deliberately limited, is critical to saving the white Christian remnant of the United States, and the slings and arrows he’s willingly taken for sticking to that focus make him a true hero in my book.
I have nothing useful to say about AmRen because, frankly, I lost interest in it after Sam Francis’s passing. Chacun à son gout, of course.
Pax tecum.
@mark: Public schooling along Prussian lines, adopted with alacrity by all the great powers of the West, was one of the reasons why a generation of young men volunteered to die pointlessly in the Great War.
Not surprisingly, universal free education is the altar at which all our great demagogues worship.
@Trenchant: Needless to say, “a generation of young white men…”.
As to the above debate between Mark and several commenters, you guys better start reading Arthur Kemp’s monumental history of the white race, March of the Titans, which took him decades of research in several continents.
His conclusion is that Indo-European Aryans have always lost the game since the first civilizations in the Middle East and Egypt through the Greco-Roman world to the present case in South Africa and America precisely because miscegenation always leads to blood mixing over the centuries. The only way to prevent it, according to Kemp, is absolute geographical segregation.
It doesn’t look that the guys in this thread have made their homework. Quantitative Easing 3, or rather Quantitative Easing Infinitum or “Operation Screw”, has just been launched. Which means that the dollar will collapse sooner than expected—and the social breakdown in every major American city will be nastier with so many niggers relapsing into savagery.
I very much doubt that after the coming collapse the problem is going to be solved without the bloody scenarios envisaged by Mark, Wm. Pierce and other realists.
@Trenchant:
The situation in the world now is different. The school curricula will be quite different as well.
Who said anything about “free education”. It’s paid for like the military is paid for—with tax revenue.
@Pierre de Craon:
Well, of course you know that conservatives are always squawking about limited government and individual freedom, so don’t play dumb. Presumably that means the “freedom” to import non-white labor like they’ve been doing and other things that suit them but are harmful to White society.
They say they want to go back to that time of limited government. So I guess that we’re talking about a difference of degree. Go read the John Birch Society website. You’ll see what I mean.
Talk in a forum is one thing. The real world is something different.
Pierre, are you in favor of permitting Whites to race-mix if they so choose, to have no legal prohibition against it?
@mark:Obligatory schooling with curricula decided by one’s betters, obligatory military service, strict behaviour codes…
http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2011/07/review-of-nothing-to-envy-real-lives-in-north-korea/
@Trenchant:
To represent the matter as a choice between your beloved isolated individualism or a totalitarian state à la North Korea is a typical false dilemma. There must be a reasonable solution somewhere in between.
@Pierre de Craon:
Great review of early American history, of which most of sadly got little real education. What I admire about great political thinkers is their ability to accept the limitations and flaws of human nature and build a society around that, as opposed to assuming some perfect human that they can build a future glorious utopia around. Building in permanent checks and balances drives utopians crazy, and if utopians are upset, that is the first sign you are on the right road.
As to the big government vs small government debate, the forced racial integration of the US took place under the heavy hand of a very big government. The demise of Whites in America seems to have been set in motion with Mr. Lincoln’s dictatorship.
I do oppose the free flow of labor, since as someone noted a while back, labor votes. However, there were quite strict laws against race mixing and rigid immigration laws under relatively small government. The key is getting Whites to be pro-White in the first place.
@mark: ‘“freedom’ to import non-white labor like they’ve been doing and other things that suit them but are harmful to White society.”
If it weren’t possible to socialize the burden of these migrant workers, eg. infrastructure, housing, health, education, law and order, and this were shouldered by the employer, then the mass immigration to which you refer wouldn’t be an issue.
As you say, “free” costs, and not a little.
Antisemitism is necessary immunity against the Jewish bacillus.
@Franklin Ryckaert: “Isolated” is your strawman. Individuals are free to congregate. Don’t you belong to a church, club, social group?
@Franklin Ryckaert: And who is the arbiter of “reasonable”, you?
@Trenchant:
But it is possible at the moment and the problem is so big that it can only be dealt with big a big government with its priorities pro-White.
BTW, if you’re not for universal education in an all-White society, what did you have in mind?
@Trenchant:
However, as an anarchist you will never get your way. Have you ever?
@Trenchant
I just wanted to clarify one thing from yesterday’s conversation: Your position is that a White woman, for example, has the right and should have the right as a matter of personal freedom and liberty to mate with a negro and produce mixed-race offspring, is that correct??
@Trenchant:
There is only a tautological solution to that problem : what is “reasonable” is determined by reasonable people.
This is no joke. If you think about it all such solutions are ultimately tautological.
One aside on “race mixing” involving White women, particularly with black men. The black man, is destroying, for all time, the very thing which he found attractive, if he breeds with her. That is not love. And the White woman is condemning her daughters, granddaughters and great-granddaughters, to forever being being deprived of the very thing that made her so beautiful.
@Jason Speaks:
By the way, I am not so naive as to think black men are motivated by love when “hooking up” with White women. I was taking the best case scenario for the sake of argument.
@mark: I don’t believe you or anyone else has any rights over to whom she gives her body. It’s not your problem whether she has mixed race offspring.
@Franklin Ryckaert: I assume you are commenting here as an individual, not some nebulous collective.
@mark:Just to be clear, anarchism is only the absence of a monopoly provider of law and order, the latter both ridiculous and immoral. An institution based on coercion and expropriation cannot guarantee personal liberty and property.
My preferred world encompasses a panoply of different orders. There’s Marksville, where strict race-mixing prohibition, schooling and military training are the order of the day. Down the road there’s Trenchantville, where different a different covenant applies. Those who don’t like one can up and move to the other. This patchwork of different orders is pretty much like Europe and America used to be in the days of yore, and is one of the defining features of Federation as an institution. No utopia guaranteed, but a variety of different outcomes and competition for the best citizens.
In short, if Marksville is the more viable model-society, it will be successful whilst Trenchantville withers. I think you can see some vestiges of this concept even today, businesses and citizens are leaving CA for more hospitable climes in other states.
@Trenchant:
And who defends “Trenchville” in case of an hostile attack? The Trenchville militia? What if the attack is by a big army?
You don’t care if California is lost, but what if Trenchville lies in California? Move the whole community to another state? What if that state also gets lost ? Ultimately you get a situation like in Somalia : state anarchy with mutually fighting war lords. Not my kind of Utopia.
@Trenchant:
It’s not your problem whether she has mixed race offspring.
Reply
What’s interesting is that I do have an interest in who she breeds with. If women exercise high standards about whom they have babies with, they will have higher quality offspring, which in turn would create a better society for my offspring to live in. If White women mate with higher quality White guys with good IQs and creative minds, one of them might cure cancer. If she breeds with an African, the chances of that happening approach zero.
@Jason Speaks:
That is an argument based on quality. A more compelling argument can be adduced based on identity. Identity is a value in itself, i.e. it doesn’t have to “justify” itself by its utility or quality. Even “useless” or “worthless” peoples have the existential right to maintain their identity, in fact because it is existential all its other interests are based on it.
An ethnic group survives by keeping its cultural and biological identity intact. Cultural identity is transmitted by education, biological identity is transmitted by procreation. It goes without saying that when a member of a certain ethnic group procreates with a member of a different ethnic group, then that means the destruction of that particular line of identity. If that happens on a big scale, then the identity of the whole group is threatened. An ethnic group thus has the existential right to prohibit its members from procreating with outsiders. Individuals don’t have the right to work at the destruction of their own group. If such an individual doesn’t accept that, then the only right he/she has is to leave the group.
Trenchant in his individualistic blindness doesn’t understand group identity, group dynamics and group rights.
@Franklin Ryckaert:
I agree with what you say. Even if my family wasn’t the smartest in the world, they still have a right to exist. Or a right to engage in the struggle for existence, to be more precise.
But, I was answering it from his radical individualist viewpoint. It may not be the ultimate justification, but when he says “it’s not my problem” if White women mate with blacks, well, it is. Obviously, it is a problem from the viewpoint you are describing, but even from the standpoint of pure individual self-interest, it is a problem.
@mark:
“Legal protection” is the pons asinorum here. I am no fan of race mixing, not least because of the really lousy consequences for any kids resulting from such unions. But on the basis of a lifetime’s experience in a society where the law is a minefield for the unwary, no matter how honest or virtuous they may be, I would have actual statute law kept at the barest of bare minimums. (Incidentally, “the unwary” = “anyone not a member of the ruling elite”.) Hence, yes, if law is to be the only solution you offer me.
May I say, without rancor or malice, that you, Mr. Ryckaert, and several others seem never (perhaps hardly ever) to consider the consequences upon a rightly ordered society of two incalculably important people: one’s parents. Before our hostile Judaeo-elite compelled many parental pairs to work outside the home and persuaded most of the rest that all parents should do so, these two people had far more influence over children than any government, any teacher, or any TV talking head could dream of having. (Are you old enough to remember when children’s speech resembled their parents’, both in vocabulary and accent, far more than that of some jerk on television? I am.) I fear that you gents have made the “ineffectual parent” model your via normativa, and so your several solutions to the present crisis embrace, albeit with notable variants, a bleached and sanitized version of the regnant unlimited state. How much experience of unlimited states is needed to see that they are a curse upon the society burdened by them?
I am loath to speak in absolutes of temporal matters, but I fail to see how any sort of viable, sound white society can ever get off and running without giving the family—and a fortiori parents within the family—categorical priority. In full-time, loving, and appropriately disciplining parents you will find the solution, for example, to the problem of race mixing generally and interracial offspring particularly: they will raise their children to understand that these are terribly destructive things and must be shunned!
I doubt whether I can persuade you that parental love and discipline are better solutions than another evil big government, which will only pervert and subvert and enslave the people it claims to serve and protect. Yet I sincerely hope that I can.
@Pierre de Craon:
I think there is a misunderstanding here. In my mind an ideal white ethno-state has already removed all non-white residents. The state will then forbid its (white) citizens to bring home non-white spouses or adopt non-white children. Temporary non-white residents, such as tourists, businessmen, students and diplomats, will not be allowed to marry (white) citizens. Should a white citizen still want to marry a non-white, he/she can do so but will have to leave the country.
I think you are more thinking of the present situation : a multi-racial state. In such a state healthy influence of the parents can of course have a preventive effect on miscegenation but is no guarantee against it. In multi-racial societies, race mixing, no matter how strong the taboo against it, allways happens.
With almost 12 hours of my comment “awaiting moderation” I’m reposting again and see if it passes this time:
As to the above debate between Mark and several commenters, you guys better start reading Arthur Kemp’s monumental history of the white race, March of the Titans, which took him decades of research in several continents.
His conclusion is that Indo-European Aryans have always lost the game since the first civilizations in the Middle East and Egypt through the Greco-Roman world to the present case in South Africa and America precisely because miscegenation always leads to blood mixing over the centuries. The only way to prevent it, according to Kemp, is absolute geographical segregation.
It doesn’t look that the guys in this thread have made their homework. Quantitative Easing 3, or rather Quantitative Easing Infinitum or “Operation Screw”, has just been launched. Which means that the dollar will collapse sooner than expected—and the social breakdown in every major American city will be nastier with so many blacks relapsing into savagery.
I very much doubt that after the coming collapse the problem is going to be solved without the bloody scenarios envisaged by Mark, Wm. Pierce and other realists, including “days of the rope” for those women who dared to mate with blacks.
12 hours – that’s funny – you must be seriously persona non grata. I just sent KM an email about my own modest contribution, which has been sitting for an hour and a half while “Pierre de Craon,” who never tires of “Pierre de Craon,” fills up the queue with mostly his own stuff. He must be the moderator on duty.
This is funny; mine went right though here, but it’s still sitting at “High-Mindedness” where I submitted it.
@MOB:
I still have to figure out the rationale of this site’s moderation policy.
Maybe there isn’t any.
@ MOB and FR,
My comment got stuck in the filter probably because a bot spotted my use of the word nig**r instead of “black” in my second try.
@Chechar:
Yeah, and you should also capitalize the word “Black”, if not using the even more respectfull term African-American.
@Chechar:
I have not read all of the March of the Titans. I have only read segments. Do you have a link?
It seems to me that the white race (at least for the last 2500 years) loses their empires/nations through a destruction of morals. I would say that race mixing falls into this category. However, I never saw race mixing (unless on a grand scale) as the thing that has always brought us down. Mixing has happened to some degree by all peoples. It seems to me that there has been one common denominator to bring down our nations/empires of the past and that sir is Esau, otherwise known as the “Jew”. It is he who has conspired to destroy our morals. It is he who has always been the traitor plotting our demise from within our midst. Today, it is he who gave rise to the mixed and foreign peoples among us by way of diminishing our rights and numbers while increasing theirs.
@TyronRobertParsons:
You are wrongly using the metaphor. “Esau” is a code word among jews for gentiles.
Kemp’s work is only available in printed form.
On the concluding remarks on page 662 he writes: “Ancient Mesopotamia, Egypt, Greece, and Rome vanished because those civilizations allowed their lands to be swamped by newcomers.” And also, “Readers who have preserved this far will by now have seen that all the great events of history have a racial basis.”
What shocked me the most in Kemp’s work is that the above-mentioned civilizations involved Indo-European Aryans to a far greater extent of what I previously thought (e.g., 2011 DNA tests on Tutankhamen and his ancestors show how “Aryan” they actually were). If these studies are right, it looks like racial melting pots of Aryans with non-white Semites and Nubians have occurred more than once in history. The biggest shock I received is that Greeks were far, far whiter than the mongrels you see today—and it seems that this melting-pot destruction of the gene pool has been cyclical since ancient times.
William Pierce reached exactly the same conclusions in his last book (excerpts here).
@Chechar:
You said
You are wrongly using the metaphor. “Esau” is a code word among Jews for gentiles.
Answer
In ever said Esau was a code word among Jews for gentiles. I am saying the so called Jews are from Esau (spiritual-Talmudism) and physically (Sephardic are Esau maternal remnant). The Ashkenaz are from Japheth and not Shem (genesis 10:3) and recent coverts to the Esau “Jewish” religion. The term “gentile” really means the ethnic/nations and does not mean “any non Jew” like the imposter Jews have programmed people to believe. The term gentile in the NT is associated with the Northern 10 tribes of Israel with the Judaite tribal remnant that traveled with them as far east as India (Aryans), turning and flooding into Europe through the Caucasian mountains mostly, spreading from Russia to Greece to England starting around 5-600 AD- later making the Christian nations.
You mentioned
Egypt, Greece, and Rome
Comment
Egypt was definitely flooded by blacks from the south. This was after the Israelite and mixed multitudes exodus. It surely did spell their decline.
Greece was also flooded but many of them dispersed the area later which always seems to be our fate after mass immigration.
Rome as well was flooded, but I would pin that on the “Jews”. The Byzantine empire demise was also greatly influenced by the “Jews” as was Russia’s recently and all of ours today in the 4 corners of the earth. I guess I should not have said for the last 2500 years because that was not accurate. How about for the last 2000 years the Esau “Jew” have been behind our demise?
The genetic tests showing white/European people’s linkage to the Aryans and those of Israel and Egypt prove the biblical narrative. Egypt, according to archeological evidence and the biblical narrative show they were white like the Israelites- in other words the offspring of Shem. After the Israelite and mixed multitudes exodus to form the early Israelite nations, the black Nubian made inroads into Egypt in mass, hence securing their decline.
Thank you for your response.
@Trenchant and Pierre
I have one more question for both Trenchant and Pierre to answer:
Do each of you feel that Jewish motion picture and television programing producers and directors have the right, and should have the right, as a matter of personal freedom and liberty and as a matter of freedom of speech and press to produce images in their works that show, and thereby promote, interracial sex between Whites and non-whites??
Thank you both.
@Franklin Ryckaert: You are very largely correct in your analysis. I must admit that I cannot conceive the kind of white ethnostate that you describe coming to pass without a level of bloodshed that would be far too local (i.e., not happening in Afghanistan or Iraq) to be thought tolerable by the great mass of our white fellows, here or in Europe or in Oceania.
Even were such a state reifiable, however, I can’t imagine a law being more effective than the contempt and ostracism of one’s family and neighbors. Antimiscegenation laws may have prevented race-mixing marriages in the Old South, but they seem almost to have encouraged the desire to sample a little bit (or a lot) of the dark meat extralegally. I don’t see human nature, certainly not the white subset of it, changing anytime soon.
@MOB: I love you, too.
Perhaps it will lift your spirits to learn that 25 percent of my stuff lands in moderation. Ask KM nicely, and maybe he will oblige you by just discarding the other 75 percent.
@mark: If every studio in Hollywood were burned to the ground tomorrow (unless “Jewish lightning” were the cause) and every Jewish producer and middleman incinerated in the conflagration, I’d be shouting for joy so loud that you wouldn’t be able to hear yourself think.
The Jews took over Hollywood the way they take over everything else: bribery combined with outright theft of property and services. Whom did they mostly bribe? Officials of the state and federal government, that’s who.
Did you know, by the way, that when Jews began exercising serious influence within and, later, control of the Catholic Church in the USA and the world, the first things they eliminated were the Church’s condemnations of certain books and movies. The Legion of Decency, as the Catholic movie rating agency was called, cost Hollywood millions every year. Mass market pornography became possible here only when attendance at sleazy movies ceased to be denounced as sinful at Sunday mass.
My bottom line is that I feel about legal restrictions on the Jews’ activities very much as the English monarchs before Cromwell did, as Charlemagne did, and as most of the Habsburgs did. Only if we get back, however, the system that made those men possible and forever rid ourselves of Jewish money’s stranglehold on politics and society—aka “democracy”—will we ever have a chance of keeping the Jews out of entertainment and the media generally for something more than a decade or two.
@Pierre de Craon: @Franklin Ryckaert:
Gentlemen, I would add the simple observation that a return to genuine freedom from government dictates would go a very long way toward your goals. If we returned to the days of freedom of association, the end of all affirmative action, and the right and duty of all intelligent adults to show some ability to discern and discriminate, the vast majority of white folks would choose to live in all white areas. The simple number of people who would travel in mixed race circles would be reduced. Social sanctions would be regain power. Even people who do their very best never to think about these issues are finding it increasingly difficult to maintain the cognitive dissonance necessary to accept today’s PC truths. Virtually the only whites sticking with the rainbow coalition are those women who have been most damaged by the feminist and sexual revolutions. They want the security of government because they know they cannot provide it for themselves. They also enjoy the white woman’s pleasure in playing Lady Bountiful by being kind and gracious, with your tax dollars, to the only people lower then themselves. Change is in the air.
@mark: Mary, I would have to say that any help we can get is welcome. Derby’s wife and kids will live in America whether or not Derby does the right thing or not. We just need some public “conversions” to boost our cause. Of course Pat Buchanan is the one we really want.
@Edmund Connelly: Sorry about that, Mark. I just got done typing a message to my Aunt Mary :)
@Franklin Ryckaert: Trenchantville organizes itself military or it doesn’t. If it gets invaded because its citizens don’t want to arm and defend themselves, well, that’s tough. (Invasions are costly, by the way).
You might prefer living in Marksville, and good luck to you.
@Franklin Ryckaert:If you care so much about CA, then move there! If you don’t, it’s because you don’t care. Isn’t that your mode of argumentation?
@Alice Teller:
That is an important point you’ve made: The vast majority of “integration” and “assimilation” has been forced, quite literally at gunpoint in many cases. The people who want to destroy homogeneous White communities are very willing to use force and are apparently required to do so.
@mark:I’m bitterly against the concept of State-sanctioned “intellectual property”, even though it is enshrined in the Constitution.
First, because copying is how we learn. Second, because it’s not necessary – contractual arrangements, trade secrecy etc. can still subsist without IP legislation (being first to market is still very profitable, even without IP). Third, because without copyright, the Jews’ vice-grip on publishing and film-making would be drastically reduced (the business model would change, I’d envisage many small, independent, self-financed films, books, as large Spielbergian works would be hard to finance if copyable). And finally, and most importantly, without the Fed and its banking oligopoly, the money spigot would be screwed down, allowing less resources to fund the Jewish culture machine.
Laws-
If the printing press can be used, it will be used.
If miscegenation can happen, it will happen.
Social intercourse always leads to the other kind.
@TabuLa Raza:
If miscegenation can happen, it will happen.
Social intercourse always leads to the other kind.
That us undeniable.
The anti-whites say ” oh , you are free to marry who you want” but we know that unless we live in some kind of police state where big brother tells us who we should have procreate with , then we will have little half negroes popping up here and there and every where. You gotta admit that is disturbing and anyone with half a brain should feel so.
We don’t want to live in a police state with miscegenation laws or we don’t want to live in the kind of nasty social control state that we have to tell people who they can parent with. So the answer is to separate . It’s best for preserving diversity and freedom.
A child would understand this but yet ” liberals” seem to have a very hard time it.
If people really are bent on ” going black” then they could go on vacation to do so, or something like that . But they should not be invited back because they should be deemed to be crazy and racially destructive sick people . Once black never back; in more ways than one .
@Pierre de Craon: As an unintended consequence, one can imagine the joy of Arnold Klein, MD, at the prospect of doing a great deal of skin bleaching and Caucasian noses.
@Alice Teller:
Alice Teller wrote:
September 16, 2012 – 7:27 pm
“If we returned to the days of freedom of association, the end of all affirmative action, and the right and duty of all intelligent adults to show some ability to discern and discriminate, the vast majority of white folks would choose to live in all white areas.”
Does that mean that you are willing to allow non-whites to live near White society instead of getting rid of them?
What you’ve indicated that you’d like to see above would have to be approved by the non-whites. With the USA becoming more non-white by the day, what you’d like to see is never going to happen. That’s why a protracted, bloody period of racial warfare awaits us.
@Trenchant:
Ok, fine, so you’re against any reasonable legal restrictions against destrctive Jewish propaganda aimed at White America. They can continue to poison the minds of our people including our youth.
Thank you.
@Edmund Connelly:
Ed,
That’s ok. For a minute there I thought you were trying to convince us here at TOO that Derby would be a good “conversion”. Any conversions must be hardcore racists and settle for nothing less than an all-White society. Thanks for clearing that up.
@Trenchant: Why not? Sure beats real work.
Give them an inch [2.54 cm] …
@Pierre de Craon:
Pierre wrote on September 16, 2012 – 6:22 pm:
“Only if we get back, however, the system that made those men possible and forever rid ourselves of Jewish money’s stranglehold on politics and society—aka “democracy”—will we ever have a chance of keeping the Jews out of entertainment and the media generally for something more than a decade or two.
Well, we’re not going back to those days. We’re not going back to anything. We’re going forward, and that means removing Jews completely from all White areas. That’s going to involve a bloody war that will leave few if any of them alive. Do you have a problem with that?
It sound like, just as Charlemagne, you are content with allowing Jews to remain in White society rather than getting rid of them.
@mark: Do you really think anyone would be miffed or even embarrassed at being compared with Charlemagne?
What I am content with and what I am prepared to endure are two different things. They ought to be for you, too, unless you really are interested in nothing more than getting us all arrested, body-slammed, and tazed by SWAT teams at 4:30 a.m one fine day.
Aching for a bloody war, as you claim you are, is a mark either of provocation or of madness. No war’s outcome is predictable in advance—ask a Russian military historian about the invasion of Finland in 1940—and your blithe disregard for the consequences of what might well not be a white victory is appalling. Happily for you, TOO’s threads are loaded with people who share your genuine or feigned appetite for killing,* and so your macho put-down of me will win you at least a day’s supply of attaboys.
Furthermore, I shan’t be apologizing anytime soon for being a Christian and hence considering pursuit of victory at any cost and for any reason, no matter how little justified, ipso facto immoral—damnably immoral.
*I am still unclear as to whether you expect to bear arms in this “heroic” down-market-Armageddon struggle or intend merely to cry from the sidelines, in time-honored Jewish fashion, “let’s you and him fight!”
@mark: War’s not good for demographics, if that’s all that counts. Losing them is even worse.
@Pierre de Craon:
So you complain about the Jews and worship one at the same time.
Hmm, how does that work? We shan’t have that!!
@Trenchant:
War can be good for demographics. It just depends on the situation. In American before long half of the population will be the enemy. I’m talking about the non-white portion which does not include the enemy elements of the White population that will also see a high attrition rate in the coming guerrilla civil war.
The Earth itself presently contains too many people and that number is growing putting way too much pressure of the Earth’s resources. We’re seeing the result in the overflow into White countries, much like a cup that is overflowing with water. Things need to happen to significantly reduce this population.
@mark: Are you now recycling your sneers, too, or am I being treated to an MP3 of mark’s Greatest Hits?
This perpetual frat-boy-at-a-kegger routine of yours has grown nasal and aural hairs. I’ve addressed you as a fellow adult. Yet you seem determined to demonstrate that I’ve been a fool to do so.
Maybe I have been and maybe I am. But I won’t kid myself any longer that you have anything to say worth responding to. Adios, killer.
@mark:
With “things” you mean of course genocide.
Are you sure this is the right forum for you?
@Pierre de Craon:
Well, it’s always helpful to ferret out those who are really valuable to the White survival movement and those who, because of some Middle Eastern-descended “morality”, have placed limits on what they are willing to do to ensure White survival and are of no use at all. I’m sure that vetting process will continue.
@Franklin Ryckaert:
Yes, I’m sure.
@mark: Vetting process, killer? There is no vetting process—certainly not here. You’d be in the rubbish bin if there were.
What have you contributed, in word or deed, to the “movement”? List just one thing, please. Then when you have, be a good little killer and go step on one of your pet waterbugs.
@Pierre de Craon: Pierre, You are a exactly the type of odious personage I have castigated for corruption in the comments section of TOO.
You think your sh_t doesn’t stink, when in fact, I can’t breathe through my nose when I’m forced through curiosity to read your self-serving, overtly verbose BS.
That must be why you never rebut the comments I submit that castigate your narcissistic comments.
I don’t care how physically ill you are. That is no excuse for your narcissism. Or for your arrogant ignorance.
Who do you think you are? Sure you’re educated. But I know lots of self-described smart people who aren’t worth the air they breath.
…Most of them are Zionist Jews…
Are you one of them?
…and yet, Pierre, you have the ability to cut to the chase – to find the ephemeral centre of any argument…
I just wish you did it more often, leaving your ego outside the equation.
oooo arthurdecco what a thing to say to Pierre,
when it is Pierre’s self-determined role to shred us lesser beings….
But
now that you have spoken
and in light of Pierre’s acknowledgement of his Christianity some days ago….
Pierre, here is your opportunity to separate soul from ego.
Peace be with you.
@arthurdecco: You are sympathetic to mark, someone who favors mass murder and openly calls for it. Evidently you lack any four-letter epithets for him. I wonder why. Furthermore, art, you seem to have made a new friend in anita. This sorry situation leaves you more to be pitied than scorned.
I feel no need to say anything else to you, nor has anything you’ve said above earned a reasoned reply—as in your saner moments you well know.
Narcissism, like other ego defenses, exists for a purpose.
I see it, I don’t like it, but I let it go.
Always get back to the facts.
Yeah, few things feel so good as a nice drive-by sneer, especially when you can combine it with some raw sanctimony.
@Pierre de Craon:
I am still waiting for people to start accusing themselves of being Jewish trolls. Just accusing other people’s anonymous pseudonyms is old hat! It’s easy enough to show that it is ideas we should be focusing on, not the naughty nature of somebody’s fake internet persona that is important, but I don’t think the people who need the education are worth the trouble.
@Jason Speaks:
If only as an original form of narcissism, that would be worth seeing, wouldn’t it!
@Mark White:
“The Chicago jewish establishment made Obama (their own words).
One longtime Jewish observer of the political scene, who did not want to be identified, said admiringly that “Jews made him. Wherever you look, there is a Jewish presence.”
http://www.chicagojewishnews.com/story.htm?id=252218&sid=212226
They’ill regret this. ”
LOL. I’m sure they already do. If you look at how Obama has knee-capped AIPAC and NOT attacked Syria or Iran. Not to mention does not seem particularly concerned that the pro-Israel Arab Spring Movement is the anti-Israel Muslim Brotherhood Movement.
Michael Savage was absolutely prescient when he warned that the people who think they can control Obama are in for a rude awakening.
Obama may have issues with White people, in general, but I suspect he has more specific issues with the Jews. He is not above using them, but he has already proven that he will turn on them in a heartbeat.
I might add, the Jew outsmarted themselves by “getting so personally involved” in the Republican primaries. Romney is increasingly showing himself to be Obama Light, alienating Whites all over the place by pandering to the Mestizos and to the left.
I am slowly coming to the conclusion that since no matter what the race of the guy is occupying the White House, there is an Anti-White agenda afoot. So, AFAIC, it’s best that it’s executed by a Negro than a White Race Traitor, because at least the Whites won’t go back to sleep and will take measures to protect themselves.
Another good thing about Obama being re-elected is how effectively it will demonstrate that the Republican Party needs to go the way of the Whigs. The GOP is not only useless to White People, but worst, more toxic to them than the openly hostile Democrats, because they work more as controlled opposition to the Democrats whose focus is on crony capitalism.
Another thing I like about Obama is that he likes his social programs and wealth redistribution agenda too much not to see a big, fat goose for the plucking in the military industrial complex.
BiBi is not a happy camper, for good reason because he suspects that Obama might come up with the great idea to scale down the military to pay social security and Medicare and Medicaid. If he does propose that, there is a better than even chance he will get a lot of votes.