Whites versus Anglo-Saxons

In the current main article, “Vanishing Anglo-Saxons”, Andrew Fraser frames his appeal to Anglo-Saxons rather than to the “‘thin’ statistical abstraction” of White.” Further, in his book The WASP Question he argued that the concept of Whiteness “always implied the inherent equality of anyone passing” for White (p. 222), a logic that repelled conservatives who were attracted to the talented of other races and capitalists who cared more about the cost of their workers than their race. Fraser advises WASPs to shed the label of ‘White’ in favor of reasserting their ancestral identity as Anglo-Saxons.

I do think that quite often White subgroups should continue to remain separate, particularly in Europe where it would be a very large loss to lose the different languages and cultures of the various European groups. In the former colonies of England that were settled predominantly by people of British stock (i.e., Canada, Australia, New Zealand), a good argument can be made that a resurgence of Anglo-Saxon ethnic identity is the key to reclaiming their rightful inheritance. Until the very recent upsurge in immigration, as Fraser points out, these societies had a very strong ethnic and cultural identity as Anglo-Saxon. Even at this late date, a successful appeal to these identities would have powerful political implications. Moreover, non-Anglo-Saxons of European descent have seen themselves in opposition to an Anglo-Saxon Australia. In Part 2 he notes that in Australia, Irish Australians “played a militant role in the rise of the Australian republican movement” aimed at severing ties with the British monarchy. One is reminded of Teddy Kennedy.

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Such an argument is less compelling in the United States. Here it is certainly nice to see celebrations of Scottish, Irish, and other European cultures by their descendants. However, it would be foolish indeed to organize politically, culturally, or economically solely on the basis of these sub-groups. The term ‘White’ in the American political context refers to all 200 million people of European descent—a very large and politically powerful group, whereas the descendants of Anglo-Saxon Protestants are a much smaller group. The most common European ancestry of Americans is German (~28% of Whites), and many of us are already hybrids. I recently went to a meeting of racially conscious Whites. Only one person said he had the same European background on both sides of his family, and he was from the UK. In my case, I am ¾ German and ¼ Scottish.

As Fraser notes in The WASP Question, “in the first ‘white man’s country’ (i.e., the U.S.), age-old ethnic differences between English, Scotch-Irish, Scots, Welsh, German and French Huguenot colonists literally paled into insignificance” (p. 216).  These differences are indeed insignificant and, because of the presence of Africans, there is a long history where European-Americans have defined themselves as White. We think of ourselves as Whites first and foremost. In the American context, the label ‘White’ is certainly not a thin statistical abstraction. It evokes strong emotions—these days most often among non-Whites who have taken advantage of the contemporary zeitgeist to openly hate us as Whites. Americans are acutely aware of phrases like ‘White flight’ and the multicultural left (that loves all cultures except the traditional culture of White America) never tires of talking about “White skin privilege.” We are targeted as Whites and that is potentially a very powerful rallying point for us.

This does not mean that Jews or immigrants from the Middle East should be considered White in an American context. These groups do not identify as White Americans, and Jews in particular have a long history of seeing themselves as persecuted outsiders in all Western countries—outsiders who do not identify with the predominantly Christian peoples they have lived among, even for centuries. Historically they have taken an oppositional stance toward Europeans and their culture, so there is no reason to include them among White Americans. The population genetic data clearly show that Ashkenazi Jews are predominantly a Middle Eastern group with some European admixture.

The obvious strategy is to legitimize a sense of White identity and White interests in the current climate of hostile elite domination of the media, politics, and the academic world. Having an identity as White need not compromise identifications with sub-groups of Whites. There are important differences among these groups. However, we are all quite closely related—indeed, Europeans are the most genetically homogeneous continental group on Earth (see Cavalli-Sforza & Bodmer, 1999, Fig. 2.9.1, p. 122). And we should all have a sense of our common cultural heritage, spanning from the ancient Greeks, the Italian Renaissance, the German Baroque, and the English novel.

Such a rational construction of our ethnic interests in the contemporary world is therefore not without a strong biological basis of near kinship, but also carries with it an intense emotional appreciation of the common European culture and its accomplishments. My hope is that these two strands can eventually win the day despite the current very large threat to our people and culture.

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168 Comments to "Whites versus Anglo-Saxons"

  1. kyril Kordov's Gravatar kyril Kordov
    October 23, 2012 - 10:21 pm | Permalink

    Dan,

    It doesn’t matter who owns the galleries. It matters who can think and extend the ideas that art contains… The Jewish artists have been the only real thinkers and brains behind new art. The Anglo community are just followers or repeaters of dead old art ideas. Thankfully, America has many Jewish artists. They made NY the art centre instead of Paris..

  2. 90404's Gravatar 90404
    October 14, 2012 - 11:30 pm | Permalink

    @Dan:
    Venice California art walk, 2012.
    So many jooish names of the artists featured.
    BUT WHO OWNS THE GALLERIES?

    Quite a spin on white privilege!

  3. Alice Teller's Gravatar Alice Teller
    October 13, 2012 - 9:06 am | Permalink

    @Julian Curtis Lee:
    Indeed! As God saw fit to grant me neither sisters nor daughters, I am well versed in male pecking orders. I find it very interesting that after running against a woman and an old man, Obama chose a buffoon like Biden. No danger of being shown up there? Even Biden had to save his bacon. Poor man, now that he is not showered by hosannas and Nobel Prizes, simply for existing, he clearly wants out. It would be cruel to re-elect that poor man.

  4. October 13, 2012 - 2:44 am | Permalink

    “Off topic but too good to resist – best tweet of the Vp debate: “Biden’s teeth are so white they are going to vote for Romney.” Mr. Obama may be the best thing to happen to white unity in our lifetime.

    Hah! Did you notice some of the things that I did? Like, the fact that they referred to Obama so very little it was as if THEY were the presidential candidates. I think Biden showed that even HE — clumsy Joe Biden — was more presidential material than Obama when sans teleprompters. During the debate it was as if Obama doesn’t exist. Wonder why that was?

    I also noticed this about the debate; I think many on both sides will see: Obama was saved by the White man.

  5. October 12, 2012 - 12:36 pm | Permalink

    The situation in the U.K . is becoming complex ,the only real Nationalist movement making any headway is the S.N.P.but the ethnic Keltic idea is buried in a sort of “any kitten in the Kipper box is a fish ,if the S.N.P.decides so ”
    One of thier up and coming stars is a devout MUSLIM with strong Islamo Facist leanings,he likes to follow B.N.P. members around trying to catch them in the New hate crimes bill passed by the S.N.P.
    The feeling in England is that it may be better that Scotland should go it’s own way ,some argue money buT Scotland has always been an asset to the U.K. in general, despite the recent decline in all economic spheres.
    For more aware observers it is political ,caused by the West Lothian question .The last Labour Government produced two Scottish prime Ministers Blair,who sat in a English seat ,and Brown a hard line Marxist who was a Scottish M.P. who sat in a Scottish seat but was in effect Prime minister of England(Scotland being controlled by the S.n.p.).
    As mentioned by other observers the other Significant White minority is the Republlican Irish ,they are always pro multi racial M.P.S such as Clare SHORT who.s family hail from Crossmaglen in the border country of Northern Ireland.The most odious of these M.P.S is George Galloway a Scot whose Sympathies lie anywhere where he can attack Western ,prodestant or Anglo-saxon goups.
    He is hated in the areas of Scotland where the Union is more accepted (Glasgow RangersF.C.), the mistrust of anyone Roman Catholic is almost Genetically inherited.
    The situation in England is almost a lost cause ,with national feeling being left to a vague Multi cultural mish mash,outdated anti German ,French American being the only prejudices allowed without your “collar being felt “by the authorities.The Inner cities have lost to the remaining Anglo-Saxon population ,with sucessive waves of Irish,Jews,west indians muslims Ad nauseum making up the population.
    It is almost compulsary to prove Non English or Britsh Ancestry to become accepted by the Establishment.
    Proffesor Frasers idea is great in theory but is a lost cause without a civil war or some great cataclysm to change things.

  6. Pierre de Craon's Gravatar Pierre de Craon
    October 12, 2012 - 11:10 am | Permalink

    @Pat Hannagan: I’ve very much enjoyed reading your string of comments on this thread, especially your friendly and informative exchanges with Ivar.

    May I add that I suspect that your constitutional indifference to or acceptance of the word Anglos and your discomfort with WASPs stems more from long familiarity than from anything ipso facto sinister in the latter term (I am not saying, of course, that there isn’t or wasn’t anything sinister involved in its coinage and use; just that it’s a topic for another venue and day). One of the reasons for my suggesting this is that my own reaction to the terms is the mirror image of yours—that is, I rankle at Anglo but greet and use WASP with indifference. (However, I can’t imagine either word ever riling me as much as hearing or reading the word cool used with reference to anything save food, drink, or the weather!) We’ve all heard that familiarity breeds contempt, and I’m not here to dispute that claim; but it’s helpful to recall that it breeds many other things as well, including some of the things we cherish most in life. Casual acceptance of words meant in their origin as a sneer may be a toxic or a tonic reaction, and most of us are emotionally healthy enough to realize that which reaction it is at any given moment depends upon the circumstances and numerous other imponderables. (Actually, I’ll be surprised if we disagree very much or at all in this matter.)

    My real point, which is no more than an addendum to your comments, is that I would be sad to see the day dawn when the colorful array of white-versus-white terms of more or less tolerant abuse and (often, perhaps usually) grudgingly friendly contempt that you have amassed perishes from the face of the earth in a wave of Judaic sensitivity mongering. My own standard—which I dub the Dogberry Lemma and herewith declare its name informally copyrighted (begging my friend Trenchant’s indulgence for the declaration, especially given my claim’s admitted unenforceability)—proclaims that the world, not least its white subset, would be an unconscionably poorer place without a vast store of words with which we regularly cut one another down to size, words with which we remind ourselves and those round about us (more or less affectionately) that none are so grand that they don’t put their pants on one leg at a time or so base that they can’t ever be provoked to moral betterment. As Dogberry, in the high dudgeon of officious pomposity that government officials seem devilishly predisposed to, cried out (the official police recorder having already left the stage) when the bad guys, impatient with his resolute stupidity, resorted to insulting him, “though it be not written down, yet forget not that I am an ass. … Oh, that I had been writ down an ass!” The world is sorely in need of more Dogberrys.

    One of the late Joe Sobran’s favorite sentiments was encapsulated in a quote from John Murray Cuddihy: “All stereotypes are more or less accurate.” Before Jewish domination of our lives reached the point where, in the USA at least, the inculcation of self-esteem as a virtue (God help us!) became the primary object of education—hence also education’s negation; for what is education if not the attempt to demonstrate to the impressionable young that they aren’t yet fit to be listened to and thereby provoke them into taking an active part in remedying that situation?—the default view was that there were few people living in the world at any time whose character wouldn’t be improved by their being taken down a peg.

    The terms you list perform that homely task in laudable fashion. I hope that in our search for white unity—in the face of the Tribe’s genocidal assault and in defense of our several pasts and, Deo volente, futures—we never lose sight of the danger of grandiosity and the remedies our elders and betters devised for its cure.

  7. Alice Teller's Gravatar Alice Teller
    October 12, 2012 - 9:56 am | Permalink

    Off topic but too good to resist – best tweet of the Vp debate:

    “Biden’s teeth are so white they are going to vote for Romney.”

    Mr. Obama may be the best thing to happen to white unity in our lifetime.

  8. Jason Speaks's Gravatar Jason Speaks
    October 12, 2012 - 5:35 am | Permalink

    @Julian Curtis Lee:

    Your videos are a great addition. I hope you are able to produce more.

  9. October 12, 2012 - 4:13 am | Permalink

    “The obvious strategy is to legitimize a sense of White identity and White interests in the current climate of hostile elite domination of the media, politics, and the academic world.”

    Yes Kevin! I am trying to do my part to break the taboos every day, each and every day. All join in! Many are being freed to think. Many are rebelling. Keep on!

  10. kyril Kordov's Gravatar kyril Kordov
    October 11, 2012 - 11:54 pm | Permalink

    @Tom:
    Anglos have appropriated this term to separate themselves from others, to maintain their elitist position. The Irish and Scottish try to attach themselves to this group, in hopes of benefiting from this class warfare rung on the ladder.
    Unfortunately, the “White Anglo Exceptionalist” fantasy is vanishing in a stream of dust.. Thankfully.

  11. Pat Hannagan's Gravatar Pat Hannagan
    October 11, 2012 - 10:52 pm | Permalink

    Just found this: http://africaday.ie/

    Africa Day in Ireland, “Supported by Irish Aid”.

    Its aim is to celebrate African diversity and success and to highlight the cultural and economic potential that exists on the African continent.

    So long as the “the cultural and economic potential that exists” stays on the “African continent”, it is of no relevance to White people.

  12. Pat Hannagan's Gravatar Pat Hannagan
    October 11, 2012 - 10:46 pm | Permalink

    @Ivar: “…did you know that?” No, I didn’t. Absolutely disgraceful.

    “In any event, there is no reason that Anglo-Saxons can’t unite with other European folk to pursue common interests while asserting their separate and unique identity. ”

    I completely agree. As I have stated above and elsewhere on this blog, we need to hold fast to our various ethnic identities as well as coalesce under our broad racial denomination as White people.

  13. Ivar's Gravatar Ivar
    October 11, 2012 - 9:39 pm | Permalink

    Pat, the fact that elements (not all) of the East Coast Anglo elites dislike the rest of us Anglo Saxons not only isn’t news, it isn’t even remarkable. The hatred of political classes for their own people is found in nearly every Western country.

    To give just one example, the home-grown Irish political class can’t pack the blacks into Ireland fast enough. By the way, they celebrated Africa Day in Ireland for a full week from May 20 to May 27 of this year, did you know that?

    In any event, there is no reason that Anglo-Saxons can’t unite with other European folk to pursue common interests while asserting their separate and unique identity.

  14. Pat Hannagan's Gravatar Pat Hannagan
    October 11, 2012 - 6:00 pm | Permalink

    @Ivar: It would be informative to know the etymology of the acronym WASP.

    The Online Etymology Dictionary states:

    acronym for White Anglo-Saxon Protestant, 1962, said to have been coined by University of Pennsylvania sociologist E. Digby Baltzell, but first recorded reference is in an article by E.B. Palmore in “American Journal of Sociology.”

    (From Online Etymology)

    From Wikipedia, re Erdman B. Palmore (is this the same E.B. Palmore?):

    Palmore was born June 30, 1930 in Tokuyama, Japan to missionary parents. An American citizen, he was raised in Virginia.

    I will assume his “missionary parents” were one of the vast array of American Protestant denominations.

    Palmore is cited elsewhere as an English surname. Erdman is cited as an English surname.

    E. Digby Baltzell: Baltzell was born in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania to a wealthy Episcopalian family. “Digby” attended St. Paul’s School, an Episcopal boarding school in New Hampshire. He attended the University of Pennsylvania, where he was a member of St. Anthony Hall, and graduated in 1940.

    Baltzell is a German surname. Digby is a “boy’s name is of Old Norse origin, and the meaning of Digby is “town by the ditch”.

    So, it appears the progenitors of the acronym WASP are in fact WASPs. I don’t know the context for the usage of the term at first, but it does have a pejorative connotation.

    What I have always found odd about the term is its redundant conjoing of “White” with “Anglo-Saxon”. Can one be an Anglo-Saxon and not be White?

    Since “White” is redundant it seems to be there to reinforce some point about Anglo-Saxons (the subject) with the trailing “Protestant” to reinforce the distaste.

    Who uses the term WASP today? I certainly don’t unless commenting on the term itself. If I am to refer to WASPs it would be Anglos. From my experience the term WASP is usually deployed by WASPs themselves on our national radio and tv networks like the ABC.

    My own take on the matter is that WASPs are their own worst enemy, historically and today. From around the time of the Industrial Revolution through to today it has been WASP elites who persecute their own, setting them aside for ritualised abuse.

    For example we have terms “Chavs” in the UK, “Bogans” in Oz, “Rednecks” (American derivation now prominent in Oz), “Trailer-Park Trash” (American yet also spreading), and “White Trash” – this last one I have heard deployed as Australia being the “white trash of Asia” on the ABC, spoken by WASPs.

    WASPs deploy this classist language of hate and elitism on their own kind, so it is a crossover of class and race.

    Anglos in Oz today, that is the common English or Scots derived white Australians, use the term “bogan” constantly to put down non-Anglos, or other english descended Ozzies as being scum. The term indicates one is a) not wealthy, b) of low status, c) a racist, d) homophobic, e) sexist and in conclusion marked for extinction.

    So, to get to the question “Why do we English have to accommodate everyone else all the damned time?” my answer is that because your elite English ancestors, and their elite descendants today openly despise you and do not want to have anything to do with you. Should you be wiped out of existence they would be deeply satisfied, which is why they are going to extreme lengths throughout the Anglosphere to import as many non-Whites as they can to replace you.

    They hate Catholics with a vengeance, absolutely adore Jews, worship Holocaustianity and other variants of victimology, and generally will be the opposite to whatever you are.

    I think it is important that non-elite English descended understand this about their co-ethnics. Even in a WN format this primal drive to separation can be seen in Andrew Fraser for example, in his refusal to accept a commonality with Whites.

    Well, that’s the way I see it. In any case, like I say, it would be good to read a post on the etymology and deployment of the term WASP.

  15. Ivar's Gravatar Ivar
    October 10, 2012 - 4:36 pm | Permalink

    It isn’t a question of ‘either,’ it is a question of ‘and.’ There is no problem whatsoever in asserting one’s Pan-Euro or Pan-Euro-American (Canadian, etc.) identity AND one’s particular ethnic identity.

    For some reason the English are required to be ‘the invisible people’ not only in their own homeland but everywhere else. I’m sick of it. Why do we English have to accommodate everyone else all the damned time? Everyone else, the French, the Greeks, the Scots, the Highland Scots, the Irish, etc., can have an ethnic identity, but not us.

    There are still millions of us Anglo-Saxons in the United States, many of us are aware of ourselves as such, we are not consumed with self-hatred and we are doing fine. (and we are NOT WASPs, BTW). Sorry to inconvenience Mr. MacDonald, but there it is.

  16. Pierre de Craon's Gravatar Pierre de Craon
    October 9, 2012 - 11:23 am | Permalink

    @Karlfried: Thank you for these comments and all the preceding ones. As a man on the scene, as it were, you help to ground all our ausländisch comments in something resembling reality.

  17. Karlfried's Gravatar Karlfried
    October 9, 2012 - 6:40 am | Permalink

    Correction to my last comment::
    false: northeast right: northwest
    false: southeast right: southwest

  18. Karlfried's Gravatar Karlfried
    October 9, 2012 - 6:37 am | Permalink

    To Pierre de Craon October 4, 2012 – 12:33 pm
    …Did you also know that Welch is merely a modern spelling of the Anglo-Saxon German word for “foreigners”? Its cognate welschen, now replaced by ausländisch or fremd, was formerly a standard German word for “foreign.”

    The Germanic tribes have a foreign neighbour in the northeast and they call him “Wales”.
    And we have a foreign neighbour in the southeast, we call it “Welschschweiz” (Welsch-Swiss).
    All the land between the “foreign” corners belongs together and this land is the home of the Germanic tribes (“germanische Völker oder Stämme”). There are different states in modern times, but the population within the Germanic land is similar. Many Germans (“Deutsche”) see the world this way. The smaller nations, for example the people in the Netherlands or Denmark point out the (small) differences. If they would not do that, they might be looked at a mere additional province of Germany, because objectively the differences are very small, much smaller than the inner-German differences between Frisians and Alemannen (in the south).

    ***
    A remark to England. Before the year 500 post Christum. the population in all of the British Islands was Celtic. After the year 800 post Christum the population in the fertile southeast, nowadays named England, was Germanic.
    What has happened in the meantime? There had been an invasion by foreigners, later a suppression of the former people, leading to their non-existence within 200 years.

    What do we learn from this? Genocide has happened in the past, several times, and we white people must be aware that we are not the victims of the next genocide. It does not bring advantage to us that we say “Genocide is a bad thing.” This saying will help us nothing. It does bring advantage to us if we say: “We do not want to be the victim of a genocide!”
    and if we act respondingly. Doing so is our duty for our children and grandchildren. And it is the most important duty. Without achieving the aim to survive, all other things are meaningless.

  19. Bobby's Gravatar Bobby
    October 8, 2012 - 11:06 pm | Permalink

    @Pierre de Craon: Yes, I knew Stix was Jewish, but his writings on racial issues in the U.S., have been absolutely accurate and more to the point, he never beats around the bush, as even some white nationalist writiers do.

  20. Pierre de Craon's Gravatar Pierre de Craon
    October 8, 2012 - 9:43 pm | Permalink

    @Bobby: I’m happy you saw the article and liked it as much as I did. It’s full of facts, and all the conclusions Stix draws are founded on those facts. There’s not enough hot air in the piece to cloud a bathroom mirror even for five seconds. It could serve as a fine example to certain TOO article writers (names unmentioned).

    P.S. You know, don’t you, that in liking Stix’s piece, both of us have doomed ourselves to semipermanent troll status? I mean because Stix is a Jew. How about this—I’ll meet you under that pretty covered bridge that Eastwood featured in Bridges of Madison County, Bobby. There’s a nice little secluded area there where we can shelter ourselves during the day lest the sun turn us to stone. This being autumn, at night we can dine on passing leaf-peepers.

  21. George Herouvis's Gravatar George Herouvis
    October 8, 2012 - 8:22 pm | Permalink

    I too am an American of Hellenic ancestry: I get along just fine with the English.

  22. Bobby's Gravatar Bobby
    October 8, 2012 - 3:02 pm | Permalink

    The latest article by Nicolas Stix at V-dare, on so-called alleged racist attacks against “minorities” at a Texas university, in which “white” students allegedly used ballons filled with bleach, should be reason enough to make European-Americans stop bickering at each other. Stix sees the charge as just another phony hate crime set-up against Euro-American students. How many European-Americans with kids, must be utterly clueless, on what is going on in these universities?

  23. Scotsman's Gravatar Scotsman
    October 8, 2012 - 2:35 pm | Permalink

    One thing that Fraser and the rest of his British Israelist goons fail to note is that there was less ethnic exclusion in white colonist societies especially in countries that had gained their political independence. Look at what happened, for example, in Argentina. Originally it consisted of Spanish colonists and a handful of indians. After independence, and thus having control over their own immigration, the Argentines eventually came to have (as I understand) an actually majority Italian ethnic background of their population, with Spanish probably being the second greatest and alot of other European nationalities on down. Maybe there are some Iberophiles in Argentina that dont like this, but IMO this is a natural consequence of all white settler societies. The US is no exception, even more so considering our size.

  24. Jim's Gravatar Jim
    October 8, 2012 - 1:17 am | Permalink

    “Such an argument is less compelling in the United States. Here it is certainly nice to see celebrations of Scottish, Irish, and other European cultures by their descendants. However, it would be foolish indeed to organize politically, culturally, or economically solely on the basis of these sub-groups. The term ‘White’ in the American political context refers to all 200 million people of European descent—a very large and politically powerful group, whereas the descendants of Anglo-Saxon Protestants are a much smaller group.”

    Yes, and don’t forget, folks – it was the largely WASP Supreme Court of the ’60’s and ’70’s that helped give away the ethnic, racial and cultural character of America with rulings on busing, minority rights, criminal rights, abortion and a myriad of other progressive causes.

    My wife and I have almost entirely WASP ancestory that dates back too the late 1700’s in the US, but I feel very little connection to other WASPS, per se. In the midwest, surnames like “Jones” or “Hamilton” among whites aren’t always indicitive of Anglo-Saxon origins, anyway. They’re often names that were adopted by great-grandparents from Poland who wanted to assimilate.

    At this point, I’ve told my pre-teen children only that they should marry “white” people when they grow up, and that whites shouldn’t mix with blacks. Beyond that, it gets confusing for them. I’ll cover the jewish thing a little later. :)

    I do, however, stress emphatically to my kids the Anglo-Saxon origins of the US, both politically and culturally, and let them know that they are of WASP origin – something they should be very proud of. If they grow up to marry people of Czech, Polish or Scandinavian Catholic origin, it won’t matter so much to me. More likely, they’ll marry folks who have some combination of those ancestories, with a good measure of Anglo-Saxon, to boot. Hey, that’s the midwest.

  25. D. K.'s Gravatar D. K.
    October 7, 2012 - 11:25 pm | Permalink

    @Dan:

    As with their incomprehensible accents, I have trouble following hillbilly grammar: Were you referring to fewer Hollywood films, or to lesser ones?

  26. Dan's Gravatar Dan
    October 7, 2012 - 10:05 pm | Permalink

    There are lots of godless hillbillies, You should watch less Hollywood films.

  27. Trenchant's Gravatar Trenchant
    October 7, 2012 - 9:36 pm | Permalink
  28. Tom's Gravatar Tom
    October 7, 2012 - 9:14 pm | Permalink

    @Bobby:

    Exactly. The Founding Fathers were mostly rural, and like Thomas Jefferson the most civilized man in America, they made the best of what they had to work with where they were in the middle of nowhere.

  29. D. K.'s Gravatar D. K.
    October 7, 2012 - 7:46 pm | Permalink

    @Dan:

    Oh, now I get it: nearly four centuries after my ancestors settled this country, I am to be thrown into a White Nationalist extermination camp, because I do not worship Jesus, along with “Anglo-Saxon” hillbillies, nor listen to His favorite pop band, the Sex Pistols….

  30. Dan's Gravatar Dan
    October 7, 2012 - 7:13 pm | Permalink

    What is Truth, eh, Bob? What a retard question.

    Constable’s Haywain. Turner’s Rain Steam and Speed. The collected works of Shakespeare, Coleridge, Ruskin, Dickens. More recently Francis Bacon and Damien Hirst.

    It’s Henry Moore, Barbara Hepworth, David Chipperfield, Anthony Gormley.
    I can go on.

    On pop cultural levels it’s something like Harry Potter I suppose or Adele rewinding it’s the Beatles, Rolling Stones, joy Division, Sex Pistols, Happy Mondays, Pulp etc…It’s Wimbledon and soccer. It’s easily identifiable and sells well.

  31. Dan's Gravatar Dan
    October 7, 2012 - 7:04 pm | Permalink

    Bob,

    the kids are Americanized louts these days. Thoroughly deracinated.

  32. Junghans's Gravatar Junghans
    October 7, 2012 - 6:45 pm | Permalink

    @Bobby: How well I know that Whites are often their own worst enemies. I see this every day that I encounter and engage them. Their pugnacity and willful ignorance is legion, just witness some of the inanities on this single thread!
    @Pierre. Merci monsieur, for your appreciative comment.

  33. Bobby's Gravatar Bobby
    October 7, 2012 - 4:23 pm | Permalink

    @Dan: By the way Dan, what are these “anglo” traits? A buddy of mine who accompanied his mother, a classical piano teacher, to England a couple of years ago, told me that aside from the older generation of English, the youth were some of the biggest morons he ever came across, including those he came across in the U.S.

  34. Bobby's Gravatar Bobby
    October 7, 2012 - 4:19 pm | Permalink

    @Dan: The “frontier” hillbilly type is fine, Dan, as long as they don’t keep buying into the “I’m just a stupid good old boy and love everyone routine, like some of those idiotic comedians, like the guy who wears overalls and that stupid bleached out cap, who is making millions, making whites look stupid,etc. Comedy is one thing, utter ignorance on what your actions and attitudes do is another.

  35. Dan's Gravatar Dan
    October 7, 2012 - 2:07 pm | Permalink

    I prefer the frontier hillbilly. Or the good old boy to the Herr Profezzor type.

    It’s no accident that ethnic whites in New York or Chicago or LA have villified the hillbilly in cartoon. It’s no accident that Hollywood and the media have done the same.

    What is white nationalism? It’s certainly NOT being exhibited by Italians, Irish, Germans, Poles who react with hostility to assimilating Anglo traits. One thing about race, is that you have to look at how people really behave. Not abstractly contemplate how you would wish them to behave.

    Fraser is dead on with voicing this stuff.

  36. Luke's Gravatar Luke
    October 7, 2012 - 12:04 pm | Permalink

    @dixie: I wasn’t giving Tom Sunic any sort of blanket endorsement when I mentioned him in relation to these endless inter-ethnic squabbles that so many whites like to engage in.

    My personal view of Sunic is that he is what I like to refer to as an intellectual narcissist. An elitist in his own mind, if not in real life – due to his preoccupation with his own academic credentials and his unintentional (I assume) tendency to judge his fellow white kinsmen or women based on the number of worthless pieces of paper they might or might not have framed and hanging on their walls, to show off to their elitist friends.

    As for myself – the way I look at this battle that White European people are in – is that I tend to admire and respect even a lowly janitor if they are white and racially aware, and it makes zero difference to me if they have any fancy degrees or if they might eat their salad with the wrong sized fork or whether they might occasionally wipe their lips on the sleeve of their shirt, instead of grabbing a napkin.

    What matters is racial solidarity and I am personally sick and tired of so-called White ‘leaders’ looking down their noses at certain other Whites who might not be as ‘refined’ or as ‘educated’ as they are.

    When the rubber hits the road, who would most White Nationalists rather have watching their back in a situation that meant life or death? A moonshine sipping hillbilly who can shoot the gonads off a squirrel with his rifle at 200 yards or some intellectual narcissist with lots of fancy paper degrees on his wall who spends all his spare time polishing his shiny cufflinks and bragging about how educated he is?

  37. dixie's Gravatar dixie
    October 7, 2012 - 11:05 am | Permalink

    And also—

    Recalling our Anglo-Saxon Identity has only become necessary in the past FEW YEARS. This is something the “pan whites” (we’re all human here!) cannot confront and discuss.

    The main ATTACKS on our country have been the “total war” SLAUGHTER of the south. (Virginia was a center of the war, the capital of the Confederates, and a stronghold of ANGLO loyalty—no accident they sent their imported mercenaries there, lol) The war, the influx of “white ethnics” after WWII, then the infiltration of the government by those “white ethnics” who are in power today, and who BOTH OPENED the border and took over the supreme court TO KEEP IT OPEN.

    The Anglo-Saxons HAVE NOTHING TO DO with what imported mercenaries, fifth columnists, and communo-fascist-theocrat SERFS from Europe see to do in new countries. (they are serfs here, too, and reinstittued that system, which is all they have ever known)

  38. dixie's Gravatar dixie
    October 7, 2012 - 10:58 am | Permalink

    D. K.
    @dixie:

    Are you operating under the inscrutable misapprehension that Dr. MacDonald is an Irish-Catholic layman….”

    DK—- own and have read all his books, probably listened to all his interviews. Am aware of who he is. Really listen to Fraser— he’s still too wasp-hating; what he lets Sunic get away with on interviews makes me cringe. But it is a beginning for younger anglo-saxons, who don’t agree with how he sometimes rolls over.

    Sunic goes on and on and on— about “wasps being the real cheerleaders for multi-cult” THIS IS A LIE. It is not how it came about. All the “white sites” expose their implicit bias by not calling this out. To pretend that the white anglo-S (and really all Northern european protestant nations have not been ATTACKED by other WHITE groups (over and over), since wwii, and especially since 1965—- is just so untrue that you won’t get away with it.

  39. dixie's Gravatar dixie
    October 7, 2012 - 10:53 am | Permalink

    LOL @ Luke:

    “Tom Sunic, on his old VOR radio program – used to constantly complain about all these nit-picky, childish, highly destructive – as well as counter-productive – ethnic squabbles and feuds…”

    Am listening to his VERY BIASED interview with Andrew Fraser right now. He takes every opportunity to pant and lick his chops over his own pro-catholic position. He has totally biased Croatian attitudes—- what are talking about? He keeps saying wasps don’t matter. He talks about “the white race,” but he means his own sub-group, if you listen to his endless biases.

  40. dixie's Gravatar dixie
    October 7, 2012 - 10:50 am | Permalink

    Hannagin says:

    That being said, I do agree that “a good argument can be made that a resurgence of Anglo-Saxon ethnic identity is the key to reclaiming their rightful inheritance. ” And along with that reclamation they might like to acknowledge their destructive role in bringing about the collapse of White Australia…..”

    What? Just as in U.S., the Irish infiltrated the government and used their ANTI-ANGLOISM to “multi cult” up the country. Catholics CANNOT look at themselves, it’s part of their culture. (They cannot handle being “bad” and they externalize and blame all other peoples, and everybody BUT THEM knows it, lol).

    U.S. did not change like this UNTIL THE HART-CELLER ACT. Even K-Mac acknowledges this; what he does not acknowledge is the Irish angle (Hart was Irish). Same in Hollywood.

    Fraser does not go FAR ENOUGH in insisting on discussing the Anglo-Saxon ENEMIES among “Whites” (and it must go in quotes) who were brought in by overseas governments, to do exactly what they did (kill Anglos in the War Between the States, introduce the Open Borders Acts— these are two things the Irish did. True— they were TOOLS of others, but they cannot even take a look at that, lol).

    The Anglo-Saxons NEVER wanted what has happened, they have fought it, they have been overrun—- you win!!! LOL—so why aren’t you happy with what YOU did?

  41. Luke's Gravatar Luke
    October 7, 2012 - 9:59 am | Permalink

    Scanning through both the article by Professor MacDonald and the readers comments which followed – was enough to give me a splitting headache.

    Tom Sunic, on his old VOR radio program – used to constantly complain about all these nit-picky, childish, highly destructive – as well as counter-productive – ethnic squabbles and feuds that he saw going on between the various tribes of his fellow White European kinsmen and women. I see the same thing going on now on TOO.

    Look, people. Stop all this bickering and arguing among ourselves and focus on the fact that the entire White European race – which includes ALL OF THE WHITE TRIBES on this planet – are under assault and we cannot afford to be fighting among ourselves and wasting precious time and energy bitching about who is more or less ‘white’ than someone else.

    It is past time to come together, as WHITE EUROPEAN PEOPLE – and fight as one organized, cohesive and determined tribe of humans who all share the same basic genetics and who are all in this fight together. We will either fight as a team and win this battle, or we will descend into disorganized factions who waste our time fighting with other white people who we should see as our allies and comrades in arms.

    I must say I am sorely disappointed by how Professor MacDonald has allowed this kind of senseless in-fighting to gain a toehold on TOO. This in-fighting and self-destructive bickering has been the #1 reason why we’ve made so little progress over the last 50 years!

    What we need most is UNITY, folks.

  42. D. K.'s Gravatar D. K.
    October 7, 2012 - 1:00 am | Permalink

    @dixie:

    Are you operating under the inscrutable misapprehension that Dr. MacDonald is an Irish-Catholic layman, and that he is merely pushing an anti-British cultural-religious imperative of his own recent-immigrant heritage? I think those of us who even have followed this site in an off-and-on fashion, over the years, all realize that the good professor’s Catholic upbringing has long since lapsed; and, as to his ethnic heritage, he accounts for it, explicitly, in this very post: “In my case, I am ¾ German and ¼ Scottish.” Why are you stressing that he is a “MAC-Donald?” Do you suppose that his paternal Scots forebears were Irish-loving, anti-British, anti-Protestant papists, perchance?!? Grab a bottle of some cheap Scotch whiskey, and calm yourself the hell down!

  43. Alice Teller's Gravatar Alice Teller
    October 6, 2012 - 10:14 pm | Permalink

    @dixie:
    I do believe it would be both clearer and easier if you would just tell us which dozen or so white folks you don’t hate. As a Southerner myself, I find it intensely offensive to read someone who calls herself dixie whining and droning on and on and on……..

  44. dixie's Gravatar dixie
    October 6, 2012 - 10:01 pm | Permalink

    And finally—– Wouldn’t WHITE PEOPLE (if they really were) at least notice that much?

    Being “white” should involve tests maybe, about the various white doings, and white sub-groups, and well… WHITENESS.

  45. dixie's Gravatar dixie
    October 6, 2012 - 10:00 pm | Permalink

    “I’d like to see Anglo Saxons bare their teeth in the US. Romney just did. He wiped the floor with the Dark Messiah….

    Romney looks Spanish. His family still lives in Mexico. Mormon’s aren’t Protestants (he’s not a wasp). And his running mate is another Open Borders-irish catholic who brags about his black girlfriends to get votes.

  46. dixie's Gravatar dixie
    October 6, 2012 - 9:54 pm | Permalink

    @Pierre de Craon
    @Trenchant:

    The people who ignore or deny the plain facts about Murdoch’s Jewishness tend to be those who, in common with Tom, Dan, dixie, et al., equate Jews with Catholics here….”

    We know very well who Jews are, probably know more about them than you do. HOWEVER, blaming them (even when they should be blamed) is what so many catholics DO. It’s like they have no positive energy whatsoever—- but blame. Meantime, they cannot perform any form of truly valid self-critique. It’s as if the catholic socialization creates people without any real potential for self-reflexity.

    What in YOUR RELIGION is causing these things? It really IS YOU, lol. The jews do what the jews do!

    Get a mirror! It’s very annoying to have a (sort of white) population that is incapable of doing any form of SELF-analysis.

    Even now, this blog cannot look at the IRISHNESS of Philip Hart. If you figure yourselves out, maybe you will quit abusing your positions in government to cause the problems we experience (based in your own religions problems).

    Oh…all those so-called catholics in hollywood…really aren’t, despite their entire catholic education…and all those people in government… Well, yes, the pope did go awry, and I guess then it’s not REAL “catholicism,” etc, etc…

    But then…maybe it’s not real Judaism, or the REAL Enlightenment, or the REAL Puritans (god knows, they get blamed for a lot, or the REAL IRA, or the REAL Protestants….

    But no… it’s only the bad catholics who aren’t the REAL catholics.

    That whole line just lacks nobility. It’s SO NOT WHITE…. right?

  47. Pierre de Craon's Gravatar Pierre de Craon
    October 6, 2012 - 9:48 pm | Permalink

    @Pierre de Craon: The word count given above was meant to be 5,700. I am sorry for the keyboarding error.

  48. Pierre de Craon's Gravatar Pierre de Craon
    October 6, 2012 - 9:43 pm | Permalink

    @Junghans: Your perspective is very valuable, particularly because no 1,700-word article could ever be relied on to provide an adequately clear picture of what Fraser or anyone else thinks about as large and complex a topic as this. Knowing that what he seems to be selling here, at retail as it were, is no different from the bulk commodity offered to “insiders” is not to be sniffed at.

  49. dixie's Gravatar dixie
    October 6, 2012 - 9:42 pm | Permalink

    @rank Edwin Stone
    @D. K.: My friend, thanks for splitting hairs and spinning what is hard to spin.
    In the real world, in America, a Mexican is almost always a mestizo/Indian type with a Spanish name and a veneer of Spanish culture.
    Most Americans would not think of white Mexicans as Mexican, whatever their citizenship may be…..”

    SUCH B.S. The “WHITE” Spanish are the worst of the race traitors, LOL. They flood into places, take the public money jobs “socializing” their co-religionists brown folks, lol.

    If it weren’t for the (“White”) CUBANS in So. Florida, the U.S. would not have become a defacto Latino speaking country. (does the government give a damn that an anglo nation HATES hearing Spanish—it sounds horrid, and is a waste of time in your life)

    It’s supposed to be terrible that (hundreds of years ago) we went to countries and “imposed English.”

    So what the hell is different about the “White” Spanish people? They just “socialize” the others. LOL—- they are the “first pawn out,” and if it’s not them it’s the Irish (the Irish “look like us but have NOOOOO loyalty to North Europe— NONE).

    Also— it’s been a thorn in people’s sides for years. All they can do is silently not personally socialize with those people. But LAWS ENSURE THAT THEY MUST live with you!—- and people w/ names like MAC-Donald act as if it’s OK, b/c “hey it’s america and we’re all white here.”

    The catholics, mostly the Spanish and Irish—- less so the Italians for some reason— will NOT LET THE AMERICANS (the ethnic real americans) live in their own neighborhoods.

    It’s GENOCIDE, and they have done it before in Europe. Difference is: after 1948, it became illegal under international law.

  50. dixie's Gravatar dixie
    October 6, 2012 - 9:32 pm | Permalink

    LOL—- this sort of quote says it all:

    “that in Australia, Irish Australians “played a militant role in the rise of the Australian republican movement” aimed at severing ties with the British monarchy. One is reminded of Teddy Kennedy.

    Such an argument is less compelling in the United States….”

    If it’s “less compelling” in the u.s. (because it would affect YOU), THEN why is Teddy Kennedy the first to come to mind (he’s not exactly Canadian).

    IN REALITY— America was more Anglo-saxon than Canada. And even more than in some of the other countries— have the Irish exerted their anti-angloism. La Raza is a Jesuit product— the product of an order whose only reason for existing (ON RECORD) is to Genocide the founding stock of the u.s.

    The anglo-saxons have certainly “lost” the country, but it is not one, maybe, where they should continue to attempt to live (or if they do, they must evolve their own strategies for living). The country has become romanized— by and large, they hate (even “white”) Latin culture, and they don’t love that the Irish opening the borders (Philip Hart of the Hart Cellar Act) have so transformed the country into something that reflects Latin culture (Lady Gag and Madonna, etc.) not “their own” values.

    The catholics (Irish especially) will not give up their gains in the u.s. They have won the country and now will have to live in it—- with its open borders, multi-cult, and all else that they brought to its shores.

    Without the Jesuit creation of Liberation Theology (at heart anti-angloism at its finest), the catholics coming across the border would not be so incited. The strange “history” that comes with the catholic/ romanized narrative, a very selective history and one that obscures its hate and genocides— has transformed america. It ain’t coming back.

    Why does Mr. MacDonald not think Anglos in american should survive as such.

    All our lives, we get Irish parades shoved down our throats, endless lectures on how badly they were treated, etc, etc— to the point that one wonders what makes those “white” populations any different from any other “victim” population?

    For those who do not share that— and have their own complaints, victimizations, history narratives, who DO NOT SHARE the “heroes” of the catholic sub-group that is now half the country (because THEY OPENED the border)— why should they not exist?

    Why does their existence AS SUCH not “make sense” to Mr. MAC–Donald?

    Why is he pro-white Genocide of this sub-group. The group he seems to care about has been in the country, often, a century TO TWO CENTURIES more— shouldn’t they have something?

    Read the history of Virginia someday.

  51. Alice Teller's Gravatar Alice Teller
    October 6, 2012 - 8:19 pm | Permalink

    @Bobby:
    Don’t despair, Bobby. There are, of course, foolish people who have their minds on nonsense but there are many, many others who who abide by all the social taboos yet are sensible enough to know that we have gone badly awry. They prove it by their actions. i think it was the Atlantic that had an article about the homeschooling movement in Manhattan. They mentioned every reason except crime and race, but who are they fooling? Anyone who gives up all of the benefits of living in a modern city has a reason. We are, in many ways, a nation of angry and scared hypocrites, when the mood changes, and it has already begun, we will be trampled by the folks who have been muttering under their breathe for years.

  52. Bobby's Gravatar Bobby
    October 6, 2012 - 7:47 pm | Permalink

    P.P.S. I should have qualified my last statement about petty arguments. It’s not arguing that’s the issue, it’s petty personal attacks on presumably our own.

  53. Bobby's Gravatar Bobby
    October 6, 2012 - 7:40 pm | Permalink

    @Bobby: P.S. To continue by last comment, AND NOT EVEN THOSE THAT REALIZE THE IMPORTANCE OF THE ISSUES FACING EUROPEAN-AMERICANS, like the people that post here, are of any real use. Just witness the petty arguments between those that already have enough enemies, outside of their own.

  54. Bobby's Gravatar Bobby
    October 6, 2012 - 7:37 pm | Permalink

    @Junghans: Let’s go back to neutral on the white identity thing. A lot of “Anglos”, as well as “other” whites aren’t even concerned in the SLIGHTEST, about these issues. I mean millions of them. To them, playing the game well,(status quo) is all they care about. If playing the game well means, throwing other whites under the bus, they will do so in an instant. IN AN INSTANT. I’ve witnessed this in places I’ve worked in and I guarantee people on this forum that it’s true. Millions of European-Americans, are light years away from even realizing the reality of any of the things discussed here.

  55. Junghans's Gravatar Junghans
    October 6, 2012 - 7:27 pm | Permalink

    To get back to the topic of Kevin’s essay, I would have to say the following: In all fairness, in trying to get a read on the Anglo psyche, I have read Andrew Fraser’s book and the articles he has written in a similar vein. His book is a very ponderous and ludicrous tome to wade through, and I had to really force myself to finish the dreadful thing. He is observant and makes some good statements here and there, but his overall nostalgic thesis is quite simply one of the most inane, improbable pipe dreams that I have ever seen from someone who should certainly know better. The White race, or I should say the deluded Anglo part of it, simply does not have the time, considering the onrush of demographic events, to even consider such whimsical, pestalozzian nonsense as he propounds.

  56. Dan's Gravatar Dan
    October 6, 2012 - 10:35 am | Permalink

    Dolchstoss-not-so-legend

  57. Franklin Ryckaert's Gravatar Franklin Ryckaert
    October 6, 2012 - 9:47 am | Permalink

    @Dan:
    The German “stab-in-the-back” myth about WWl is called Dolchstosslegende, not the impossible dolshgeschloss (brrr).

  58. Pierre de Craon's Gravatar Pierre de Craon
    October 6, 2012 - 9:07 am | Permalink

    @Tom: It was a movement of the cynical 5 percent of people who didn’t live in squalor, people who exploited the actual people by every means at their disposal.

    Henry VIII isn’t the only ruler who built a “church” on his testicles; he is just the best known.

  59. Tom's Gravatar Tom
    October 6, 2012 - 8:40 am | Permalink

    @Pierre de Craon:

    Luther was only one of thousands of Protestant leaders, most of whom have been forgotten by history.

    The Protestant Reformation was a movement “of the people” of North Western Europe, and had been so since the start of Christianity in North Western Europe.

  60. Dan's Gravatar Dan
    October 6, 2012 - 5:29 am | Permalink

    Austria Hungary had about 2,200,000 Jews in 1914. They were emancipated and functioned at high levels of their society as tax collectors, bankers, brokers, doctors, pols, officers, advisors, managers, industrialists, artists, courtiers and publishers. This multicult empire put them in, if not the driving seat, an astonishingly prominent role. Vienna was literally a Jewish capital of Europe pre ww1. 200,000 residents were listed as Jewish. It was as good as their Zion. This is effectively where ww1 started. A conflict between nationalist Serbs and polyglot multicult Austrian-Hungarian (back no doubt by enthused Jewish subjects who saw the potential for plunder in
    Serbia.) The only reason it spun out of control is that Germany (under whose advice?) decided not to rebuke the Austrian monarch in the face of Russian support for Serbia. Germany ought to have offered services along with Russia as mediator for disputes in the Balkans. Instead, they decided to invade everyone after they understood Russia was mobilizing. Had they won every Jew would have sung their praises.

    Blaming the last party to the conflict, for the conflict is chutzpah. (that’s Yiddish which is incidentally a Judeo-German dialect)

  61. Dan's Gravatar Dan
    October 6, 2012 - 4:33 am | Permalink

    We can get into ww1 if you like. However, I maintain that most of central European Jewry (and elsewhere) was on Germany’s side well into 1917. 100,000 served with the Second Reich. 25,000 Jewish officers in the Austrian-Hungary Army. Herzl and Zionists were on great terms with the Kaiser. I offer this as a note of caution to Ethnic Germans. Before WW1 Jewry invariably was associated with German colonies and Yiddish a German-Jewish dialect. Hitler’s dolshgeschloss was correct. The Jews did stab the Germans in the back. Once the Germans overreached their Jewish sponsors abandoned them. Once the Jews captured Russia with the Bolshevik coup they didn’t politically need Germany.
    The German high command also turned Czarist Russia into a Bolshevik state by sending Lenin there to depose Kerensky and then kill the Czar. This unleashed the Jews in Pale to slaughter Orthodox peasants and murder the Russian aristocrats.

  62. Pierre de Craon's Gravatar Pierre de Craon
    October 5, 2012 - 2:38 pm | Permalink

    @Tom: “Roman Catholic politicians”—you mean like your hero Luther?

  63. Tom's Gravatar Tom
    October 5, 2012 - 2:12 pm | Permalink

    @Pierre de Craon:

    You are out of your mind Catholic boy—go to confession & tell your priest. LOL.

    David Irving, who I respect as a historian, admits that he is only passing along gossip from an un-named source. It’s very possible like the Roman Catholic politicians in the United States, Murdoch is a philosemite or Judeophile or on the take, or make, or whatever the word is… LOL.

  64. Pierre de Craon's Gravatar Pierre de Craon
    October 5, 2012 - 12:53 pm | Permalink

    @Trenchant:

    The people who ignore or deny the plain facts about Murdoch’s Jewishness tend to be those who, in common with Tom, Dan, dixie, et al., equate Jews with Catholics here at TOO and elsewhere. Do they dine with Foxman, I wonder, or just accept his checks?

  65. Trenchant's Gravatar Trenchant
    October 5, 2012 - 12:04 pm | Permalink
  66. Frank Edwin Stone's Gravatar Frank Edwin Stone
    October 4, 2012 - 7:35 pm | Permalink

    @Whites Unite: Well said!

  67. Frank Edwin Stone's Gravatar Frank Edwin Stone
    October 4, 2012 - 6:36 pm | Permalink

    @Pat Hannagan: Moreover, Murdoch’s mother is rumoured to be Jewish.

  68. Jason Speaks's Gravatar Jason Speaks
    October 4, 2012 - 5:13 pm | Permalink

    @Henry:

    Thanks for the clarification on the Kipling poem. I also notice that in the original the word ‘English’ is used, not Saxon.

  69. Bear's Gravatar Bear
    October 4, 2012 - 4:19 pm | Permalink

    @Dan:
    The Germans invaded France because after the Germans asked France whether they would stay neutral in event of a war between Russia and Germany the French reply was “no”. (France would have recourse to her own interests). Germany would loose a two front war unless she took the initiative. Using her advantages in speed of mobilisation, conscript training etc.

    France in fact initiated mobilisation first though faster German mobilisation led to a fast declaration of war. The so called von Schlifen plan for an attack of France via Belgium turns out to have been a non existant fabrication as the “plan” was merely an exercise of 1905, never promulgated and short of nearly 10 divisions. See “the real German war plan” by Terrence Zuber. Ironically Austria and Russia were sending out peace feelers at the time. UK Admiralty had already signed treaties bringing Britain to Frances side in 1905, something Lord Grey and Churcill kep secret from cabinet while Churcill promoted war. British, French and Russian resentment towards Germany was caused by her economic success, her expansion into the Middle East ( so caled peacefull imperialism) which sought to turn the Ottoman Empire into a market and source of raw materials. The Werner von Siemens inspired “Berlin Bahgdad Express” in particular threatened britains Suez Canal economically and militarily, Frances interests and made the Russians nervousness it might allow more rapid mobilisation of Ottoman troops.

    Since the death of Chancellor Bismarck Germn foreign policy deftness declined under Wilhelm II and she neglected to manage her neighbours diplomatically. There was also a touch of revanchist motivations for Frances defeat in the Franco Prussian war.

  70. Frank Edwin Stone's Gravatar Frank Edwin Stone
    October 4, 2012 - 1:46 pm | Permalink

    @Dan: Posts such as yours make me wonder whether there will ever be a successful white nationalist movement.
    First of all, I am only part German and do not condone everything that the Kaiser’s government has done.
    Second I am well aware that the blame for the outbreak of the insanity called the First World War is shared by all the belligerent governments of that time.
    However most of it can be placed on the mindless British cabal led by Grey and to a lesser extent on the French who tried to avenge the defeat of 1870 and reconquer the German inhabited territories of Elsass-Lothringen.
    Russia, despite being ruled by a czar of German descent and having a German dominated administration and middle class, was cajoled into joining this aggressive pact of surrounding Germany from all sides.
    The best study on the origins and blame for the suicide of the West is the book by Patrick Buchanan called “The Unnecessary War”
    The anti-German fraudulent propaganda with which your mind seems to be infused with makes you blind to the sublime grandeur and heroism of the soldiers who refused to kill each other on Christmas Day in 1914. Execution by firing squad was the penalty for refusing orders.

    Only a fool with a poisoned mind would think that the German soldiers in those trenches stopped fighting because they wanted to keep the French land they were on.

    The vast majority of the soldiers on all sides simply had enough of this insanity and wanted to go home.

    You need a priest or a psychiatrist, because your soul is poisoned.

  71. Frank Edwin Stone's Gravatar Frank Edwin Stone
    October 4, 2012 - 1:17 pm | Permalink

    @Jason Speaks: I was not there but I am almost sure.
    Now, the death toll was the result of mainly starvation and disease, not deliberate genocide of civilians as was done by the Churchill clique.
    Just like in the South after Sherman’s ravages, almost all crops and food disappeared or was taken by Sherman’s “foragers”. Except that the Sherman campaign of devastation and burning lasted less than a year.
    The 30 year War lasted as from 1618 to 1648.

  72. Pierre de Craon's Gravatar Pierre de Craon
    October 4, 2012 - 12:33 pm | Permalink

    @3D: Quite right, of course. Did you also know that Welch is merely a modern spelling of the Anglo-Saxon German word for “foreigners”? Its cognate welschen, now replaced by ausländisch or fremd, was formerly a standard German word for “foreign.”

    @Spartacus: Thanks very much for this brief geohistorical survey, most of it news to me.

  73. October 4, 2012 - 11:43 am | Permalink

    @90404: @EtruscoUmbroPicenoGallic:

    thx. makes more sense now.

    Please try and donate to Kurtbills.com of Minnesota. For US Senate.

  74. Henry's Gravatar Henry
    October 4, 2012 - 9:58 am | Permalink

    @Jason Speaks:
    Jason you can’t find it listed amongst Kipling’s poems because the wrong title is usually given on nationalist forums, as is the case here.

    The correct title of the ‘The Awakened Saxon’ is: ‘The Beginnings: 1914-18′

    Kipling wrote another poem titled: ‘Norman and Saxon’ which you might like to read.

    Norman and Saxon

    My son,” said the Norman Baron, “I am dying, and you will be heir
    To all the broad acres in England that William gave me for my share When we conquered the Saxon at Hastings, and a nice little handful it is. But before you go over to rule it I want you to understand this:—

    “The Saxon is not like us Normans, His manners are not so polite.
    But he never means anything serious till he talks about justice and right. When he stands like an ox in the furrow with his sullen set eyes on your own, And grumbles, “This isn’t fair dealings,” my son, leave the Saxon alone.

    “You can horsewhip your Gascony archers, or torture your Picardy spears, But don’t try that game on the Saxon; you’ll have the whole brood round your ears. From the richest old Thane in the county to the poorest chained serf in the field, They’ll be at you and on you like hornets, and, if you are wise, you will yield.

    “But first you must master their language, their dialect, proverbs and songs. Don’t trust any clerk to interpret when they come with the tale of their wrongs. Let them know that you know what they’re saying; let them feel that you know what to say. Yes, even when you want to go hunting, hear ‘em out if it takes you all day.

    “They’ll drink every hour of the daylight and poach every hour of the dark, It’s the sport not the rabbits they ‘re after (we ‘ve plenty of game in the park). Don’t hang them or cut off their fingers. That’s wasteful as well as unkind, For a hard-bitten, South-country poacher makes the best man-at-arms you can find.

    “Appear with your wife and the children at their weddings and funerals and feasts. Be polite but not friendly to Bishops; be good to all poor parish priests. Say ‘we,’ ‘us’ and ‘ours’ when you’re talking instead of ‘you fellows’ and ‘I.’ Don’t ride over seeds; keep your temper; and never you tell ‘em a lie!”

    Rudyard Kipling.

  75. Spartacus's Gravatar Spartacus
    October 4, 2012 - 8:12 am | Permalink

    A little bit off-topic: The present German state of Saxony with its capital Dresden has nothing to do with original Saxony. Historically Saxony meant the North western part of Germany including the Netherlands which was inhabited by the Saxons. Their language was Old Saxon, the then prevailing northern dialect of German.
    Through a chain of complex dynastic dealings the name slowly drifted south east. Formerly the state of Saxony was populated by several German tribes like Francs and Thuringians, while the Eastern part was predominantly Slavic. German colonization took place without bloodshed (in stark contrast to the Baltic).
    The dialect spoken in the state of Saxony belongs to the southern German group. Year after year it is polled as the most unattractive German dialect. The most popular is Northern German, the present-day descendant of Old Saxon :-).

  76. Athling's Gravatar Athling
    October 4, 2012 - 8:12 am | Permalink

    Northwestern Europeans who comprise the vast majority of white people in America are in fact very genetically similar. As noted in the article, “Europeans are the most genetically homogeneous continental group on Earth (see Cavalli-Sforza & Bodmer, 1999, Fig. 2.9.1, p. 122).”

    This is why I have no problem with and why there is no biological objection to whites intermixing ethnically. At the other extreme, miscegenation with Africans, you have two races who couldn’t be more genetically different. This is evil. It destroys the white race.

    While ethnicity is still understandably important in Europe with the many subdivisions of white people most white Americans are now a mixture of Northwestern European ethnicities. Our appeal then to other whites not currently engaged in our struggle should be a racial rather than an ethnic one.

  77. Spectator's Gravatar Spectator
    October 4, 2012 - 6:59 am | Permalink

    @Frank Edwin Stone: Teach, brother!

  78. 3D's Gravatar 3D
    October 4, 2012 - 6:50 am | Permalink

    @ fatboy, 10-2-12 1:40 p.m. The Angles, Saxons, and Jutes were Germanic tribes that displaced the Ancient British Celts beginning around 500 AD, after the Romans had vacated Britain. The Celts were relegated to the least hospitable portion of the Island, and today are known as the Welch. The Irish and the Welch are brothers, sisters, and cousins. The Angles, Saxons, and Jutes became known as the Anglis, or English.

  79. EtruscoUmbroPicenoGallic's Gravatar EtruscoUmbroPicenoGallic
    October 4, 2012 - 6:09 am | Permalink

    @mudur:

    I accidentally responded to you on the other Anglo-Saxon article. I don’t want to spam the blog by rep-posting it here again here, so you can just read the lengthy response over there.

  80. Bobby's Gravatar Bobby
    October 4, 2012 - 1:26 am | Permalink

    @Frank Edwin Stone: Your account of the various Germanic tribes and who they became later, is extremely probable. Even language research has shown that on a language “tree”, German is the trunk and English, Dutch, Swedish, Danish, …are branches.

  81. Bobby's Gravatar Bobby
    October 4, 2012 - 1:05 am | Permalink

    @Dan: Can’t help but agree with you. I’ve considered it quite a while, and if Romney wins,(which by the way WOULD NOT change the disastrous course this country is on) , I’ll be shocked.

  82. Bobby's Gravatar Bobby
    October 4, 2012 - 1:01 am | Permalink

    @Athanasius: Very interesting point.

  83. October 4, 2012 - 12:42 am | Permalink

    @Frank Edwin Stone:
    “The Scotch-Irish are Kelts not Anglo-Saxons.
    They have adopted the religion, language and culture of the Anglo-Saxons”
    ====
    The Angles, originally from the Danish – German Border area, and the Saxons, originally from Saxony in NW Germany, adopted the religion of Rome. The Celts/Kelts were pan-European tribes from Greece to Scandinavia.

  84. Pat Hannagan's Gravatar Pat Hannagan
    October 4, 2012 - 12:27 am | Permalink

    I remember quite well Andrew Fraser’s foray into the non-public debate on non-White immigration to Oz, making such a debate go public. At the time I worked near that very same campus he taught at. I was impressed, and applauded him for his outspokenness, as did most of my family and friends.

    These are some of his words:

    Given the relentless and revolutionary assault on their historic national identity, white Australians now face a life-or-death struggle to preserve their homeland. Whether effective resistance to their displacement and dispossession can be mounted is another question. Unlike other racial, ethnic or religious groups well-equipped to practice the politics of identity, white Australians lack a strong, cohesive sense of ethnic solidarity. As a consequence, ordinary Australians favouring a moratorium on non-white immigration cannot count on effective leadership or support from their co-ethnics among political, intellectual and corporate elites. On the contrary, our still predominantly Anglo-Australian rulers are indifferent; some profit from, and others actually take pride in their active collaboration with the Third World colonization of Australia. None of the major parties, indeed, not one member of the Commonwealth Parliament, offers citizens the option of voting to defend and nurture Australia’s Anglo-European identity. The problem, in short, is clear: The Australian nation is bereft of a responsible ruling class.

    Emphasis mine.

    Mr Faser is extolling “white Australians”, of which I am one, “ordinary Australians” like those at Cronulla (many of which are non-Anglos), castigating the Anglos for “collaboration” with non-White immigration and seeking to profit from it.

    Has he changed his tune? Aren’t we white anymore? Is it not the “predominantly Anglo-Australian rulers” who are at fault anymore for our national collapse? Who is our ruling class today constructed from ethnically?

    I support Mr Fraser in his urgings for Anglo ethnic identity. However, that identity is not the whole of the traditional White Australian identity. Further, the problem is, just as it is for Mr Fraser I would suggest, that Anglos refuse to identify as White, which is why we got into this problem in the first place.

  85. Chris's Gravatar Chris
    October 4, 2012 - 12:19 am | Permalink

    @ uh: I generally am in agreement with your posts, however, you said this: “Bad news, groveler: high IQ — except among Ashkenazi Jews and Brahmins — is strongly correlated with outbreeding, low IQ with inbreeding. File the latter under “Things Everyone Knew Already”.

    I think we all have been lied to about IQ and interbreeding. Why would they lie, you ask? Well, why do they put fluoride (which has recently been shown in a scientific study to lower IQ) in our water and high fructose corn syrup and genetically modified soy in almost every processed food product?

    If you look at the peoples that have high IQ, they seem to be the most racially homogenous. I myself went along with the brainwashing lie, until I saw this article on Iceland, and it got me to thinking… wait a second! Please read the entire article in the link below.

    http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/offbeat/111011/wanderlust-iceland-where-everyone-related-bjork

    Excerpt:
    ” According to Stefánsson, Iceland is one of the world’s most genetically homogenous nations. To put it bluntly, Icelanders — because there are so few of them — are more likely to have children with somebody that they are related to.

    Contrary to popular belief, this is good news for fertility rates, says Stefánsson.

    It turns out that fertility works best when couples are sufficiently related to each other because their genes are more compatible. A study published three years ago by Decode in Science Magazine reported “significant positive association between kinship and fertility, with the greatest reproductive success observed for couples related at the level of third or fourth cousins.”

    And, Iceland is according to Richard Lynn’s research, one of the more intelligent European countries as well. Take a look at how other countries compare:

    https://lesacreduprintemps19.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/intelligence-a-unifying-construct-for-the-social-sciences-richard-lynn-and-tatu-vanhanen.pdf

    Country Measured: Iceland
    IQ: 101
    IQ data quality: 4
    SchAch: 514.7
    SA direct: 98.7
    SA scaled: 97.6
    SA data quality: 10
    Final IQ: 98.6

  86. Pat Hannagan's Gravatar Pat Hannagan
    October 3, 2012 - 11:50 pm | Permalink

    @Dan: Any Anglos you’d care to mention as well amongst that lot? Or is this just a one sided diet you are determined to serve up?

  87. Dan's Gravatar Dan
    October 3, 2012 - 11:45 pm | Permalink

    Oh, Romney?

    No he’s going to lose the election anyway. There are too many Hispanics and blacks in the US for him to win. Far too many Jews in the press. Far too many carping Irish like Odonnell, Matthews and Dowd.

    No he can win every debate but still lose. There is no exit.

  88. Pat Hannagan's Gravatar Pat Hannagan
    October 3, 2012 - 11:34 pm | Permalink
  89. Connor McNessa's Gravatar Connor McNessa
    October 3, 2012 - 11:31 pm | Permalink

    Not too many Irishmen in Timbuktu. Too many smoked Irishmen there. Too much malanin and malevolent melanin endowed folk. In the face of a flashmob, do you think that Anglo-Saxon and Irish Americans can get together? I prefer any European to a melanin endowed, low IQ flash-mob of youths. I prefer any European to DeShawn or Shaniqua. Maybe you’d like to see a lot of strife among European-Americans. Oh Danny Boy the the pipes are calling…

  90. Pat Hannagan's Gravatar Pat Hannagan
    October 3, 2012 - 11:29 pm | Permalink

    @Pat Hannagan: Sorry, that was offensive to say ” the great man himself, Prince Charles”.

    I should have said ” the great tampon himself, Prince Charles”

  91. Dan's Gravatar Dan
    October 3, 2012 - 11:22 pm | Permalink

    I was commenting on the article NOT the first comment.

    Btw I have extensive Irish Catholic ancestry. Bishops, Mutineers and some relation to Brian Boru’s younger brothers.

    I’m not against The Irish, just going out of my way to prove a point. Laying it all on thick. I’d like to see Anglo Saxons bare their teeth in the US. Romney just did. He wiped the floor with the Dark Messiah.

  92. Pat Hannagan's Gravatar Pat Hannagan
    October 3, 2012 - 11:16 pm | Permalink

    @http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2012/10/vanishing-anglo-saxons-jared-taylors-white-identity-and-the-crisis-we-face-part-1/#comment-92033)

    So what are we supposed to do then Dan? Do as M. Craon notes and get down on the floor and start scrubbing it for you?

    Furthermore, we now have two posts where the absurd little Scotsman Andrew Fraser, recent arrivee in what is historically an Anglo-Celtic Australia (though not always in harmony), now tells me that my White nation always belonged to the Anglo-Saxons, to which you chime in with ignorant abuse of the “paddys”.

    We wait with baited breath for the next installment where Mr de Freseliere “notes that in Australia, Irish Australians “played a militant role in the rise of the Australian republican movement” aimed at severing ties with the British monarchy.”

    Wow, who would have thunk it. Ancestors of the first settlers, teh Oirish, weren’t fond of Old Mother Engerland! Gosh and begorrah!!!

    I hope he also notes how those very same republicans opposed conscription in the First World War, of which they were successful, whereas de Freseliere’s mates were gung ho to kill “the Hun”. Thanks for Gallipoli Mr Fraser, we owe you millions. Come up to the mountains and I’ll give you your due.

    As an interesting aside, Mr Fraser was profoundly upset in an interview with Tom Sunic that his son was dating a Russian. Can you imagine the horror?! Tut tut, the Country Women’s Association won’t be pleased at that news, no not at all. They may have to crochet his boy an English Rose to marry instead.

    Btw, did you know that the most famous alumni of Geelong Grammar School is the great man himself, Prince Charles? Really churns out some wonderfully loyal sons that place, that’s for sure. As the Prince said “I personally would rather see [my future role] as Defender of Faith, not the Faith”.

    Prince Charles is probably a bog Irish Catholic in disguise though Dan, you better go research it.

  93. Dan's Gravatar Dan
    October 3, 2012 - 10:32 pm | Permalink

    As soon as you talk about English (AngloSaxon) identity every Irishman from here to timbuktoo has their two cent’s worth. Every German chimes in.
    The French to their credit don’t do this.

    This thread proves it.

  94. Connor McNessa's Gravatar Connor McNessa
    October 3, 2012 - 10:18 pm | Permalink

    Well, dogs are a good comparison. For those who think that there is no race or ethnicity, I suggest that they race in the Ididerod, with a team of Chihuahuas! How about a Rottweiler to root rodents out of their dens! We’ll go on a bear hunt with some Mexican Hairless dogs! We’ll sneak into enemy territory on a commando mission with some Basset Hounds. We’ll use some Saint Bernards to hunt hares in the Arabian desert. We’ll stock lions in Africa with a Lhasa Apso. How about a trek across Death valley with some Samoyeds?

    Well, some breeds are better suited to some occupations than others. They have different dispositions and different temperaments. I cannot imagine why anyone who thinks otherwise would come to this website.

  95. Pierre de Craon's Gravatar Pierre de Craon
    October 3, 2012 - 10:07 pm | Permalink

    @Pat Hannagan: Bryn has cleaned up real good since he was a kid. He looks less and less like Meatloaf every year that passes.

    Maybe in a few years more, perhaps after a few DNA gene implants (do surgeons do that yet?), Dan and Pierce will deign to let him scrub their floors.

    ♪♫♪ … Whistle while you work … ♫♪♫♫

  96. Trenchant's Gravatar Trenchant
    October 3, 2012 - 8:44 pm | Permalink

    Blood, pedigree, blue ribbons:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_in_Show_(film)

  97. Connor McNessa's Gravatar Connor McNessa
    October 3, 2012 - 7:29 pm | Permalink

    There are Saxons in England and Saxons in Old Saxony, in Germany.

  98. Connor McNessa's Gravatar Connor McNessa
    October 3, 2012 - 7:25 pm | Permalink

    Most modern people are indoctrinated and brainwashed into the notion of the nation-state as the be-all-and-end-all. It becomes truly ridiculous when you hear of “a Dane of Pakistani descent” and the like. People call Tibet “China” frequently. No Tibet isn’t China proper, it is occupied by China. There is a Russia proper, European Russia, and then there is Siberia, which Russia controls and which has not been called “Russia” by educated people until recently.

    Similarly, people in the U.S. ask what your nationality is or what “nationality you are.” I’m American. Country of origin is not necessarily ethnicity. Even if you state “ethnic German,” for example, it can be misleading or a poor descriptor. Do you mean culture or do you mean physical type? Many Bavarian Germans are of Alpine type, broad heads, stocky short to medium physiques, curly brown hair, brown eyes, etc. They often have a quite different physique as compared to a resident of Angeln who will probably be of a more Nordic or Nordic with Borreby or Brunn type. A Scot from the Highlands and an Irishman are virtually of the same ancestry. They came from different kingdoms. An Englishman, a Dane, and a Frisian are genetically indistinguishable according to some recent studies. Frisians are from Frisia, spread across the North Sea in the Netherlands, Germany, and Denmark.

    French people from Alsace-Lorraine are descended from ethnic Germans mainly.

    When the “Germans” crushed the Romans at the Battle of The Teutoburg Forest, the main tribe involved was the Cherusci. Parts of that tribe later became Franks and parts later became Anglo-Saxons. When talking about physical anthropology it is not very accurate or specific to state what country your ancestors came from or to claim that a Dane and an Englishman are far different. The Northwestern Europeans (indigenous) are mostly pretty closely related ethnically.

    In addition, those who’s ancestors have been in North America for a long time often have ancestors from several European countries. The term “White” to refer to European Americans is probably the most useful in this context. Perhaps it is useful to have a Euro-American consciousness. Very few of us are from one European country. Many of the Southerners who have a lot of Anglo-Saxon ancestry are from families that have been here since the Th. C. and do not know what their exact national origins are. That is why they respond that they are American. They are probably mostly English and Lowland Scots (also mostly Angle or Anglo-Saxon). They might be Welsh, too.

  99. Pat Hannagan's Gravatar Pat Hannagan
    October 3, 2012 - 7:04 pm | Permalink

    @Richard Pierce: I don’t have a problem with Anglo-Saxons, whoever or whatever they are, asserting their identity.

    I do have a problem when that identity seems to have at it’s core a manifest hatred of all other White peoples. I’ve seen very little “in moderation” WASP identity expressed in these threads.

    Have your Anglo-Saxon identity by all means. But if part of that identity must entail slagging off every other non Anglo-Saxon people, and giving absurd anti-historical accounts of what the “bog irish” did to the poor little Anglo-Saxons, then you have a problem on your hands.

    I support any White people maintain their ethnic identity, in their traditions, culture, music, religion etc ways. I also support a united White front, a coalescence of all our peoples, under our broad racial identity so that we may advance our people.

  100. Richard Pierce's Gravatar Richard Pierce
    October 3, 2012 - 6:43 pm | Permalink

    It says a lot that no Anglo-Saxon or English complain when Irish, Italians, Slavs, or any other group asserts their uniqeness and wants to preserve their tribe. But dare the historical majority of the US even try to define themselves exclusively, even in moderation, and now all of a sudden it’s “divisive.”

  101. Pat Hannagan's Gravatar Pat Hannagan
    October 3, 2012 - 6:35 pm | Permalink
  102. mudur's Gravatar mudur
    October 3, 2012 - 6:33 pm | Permalink

    @EtruscoUmbroPicenoGallic:

    I have never heard such a bullshit. Celts, Germans, Slavs, Balts and other Indo-Europeans originate from the same people who had migrated from the North Caucasus (between region around -5000 BC, hence all fair, check the mummies in Central Asia).

    Italics, Umbrians and finally Romans who had invaded the territory were small in numbers and mostly assimilated the existing population (therefore differed from their forefathers in terms of pigmentation).

    You are probably a Northern Italian separatist with loony ideas (like Padania). North and South Italians are both dark (while the latter is certainly darker), so they are -at least on the maternal side- mostly of old European and Semitic origin with little Nordic strain (tiny Celtic substratum and later Germanic (Lombard and Gothic), maybe some Slavic in the extreme North-east).

    Anybody who extensively travels across Europe knows well that very few Italians can pass for Irish and vice versa. If one of them is Celtic, the other one is certainly not.

    And I don’t care how much R1b they carry, some tribes in Cameron are 80-90% 1b due to reverse migration, would this make you think they are Celts, too?)

    Even your classification is totally absurd, you have absolutely no idea what Dinaric is. And how did you come up with the idea that Celts were Dinarics?? Even Illyrians would have been a better try.

  103. Pat Hannagan's Gravatar Pat Hannagan
    October 3, 2012 - 6:17 pm | Permalink

    @http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/features/2012/07/18/the-dirty-diggers-religious-odyssey/)

    “They say I’m a born-again Christian and a Catholic convert and so on. I’m certainly a practising Christian, I go to church quite a bit, but not every Sunday and I tend to go to the Catholic church – because my wife is Catholic, I have not formally converted. And I get increasingly disenchanted with the
    C of E or Episcopalians as they call themselves here. But no, I’m not intensely religious as I’m sometimes described.”

    Murdoch’s links with the Catholic Church would make his grandfather and great-grandfather turn in their graves. They were part of the Presbyterian church that declared the Pope the Antichrist. Murdoch’s great-grandfather, James Murdoch, a church minister, was one of the 470 fiery ministers in the Wee Free revolt, known as the Great Disruption, who broke with the Church of Scotland in 1843.

    Is Rupert an Anglo-Saxon in Andrew de Freseliere’s, and yours, estimation?

    The one thing I’ve noticed about the “paddies” is their usefulness to Protestant estimations of their own self worth. If it’s bad it’s Catholic, and coming from the “bog Irish”, regardless of the facts. If it’s good then it obviously must be Anglo-Saxon, and or Anglican.

    You can’t have it both ways though Dan, at least not when debating the subject outside your mental asylum.

  104. Jason Speaks's Gravatar Jason Speaks
    October 3, 2012 - 6:15 pm | Permalink

    @Frank Edwin Stone:

    Are you sure that 60% of the German population perished during the Thirty Year War? I’m not denying it, I just can’t find reliable numbers. I see that everyone agrees that at least 1/5 died, while most seem to settle around 1/3.

    It’s incredible that such carnage can be unleashed.

  105. Dan's Gravatar Dan
    October 3, 2012 - 6:14 pm | Permalink

    The problem with the truce is that the Germans were camped out around Lille, Amiens, Verdun. Unmistakalby French soil. I’m sure the Germans would have happily had an armistice as long as they got to keep French coal fields. Additionally if I’m not mistaken the Imperial German and Austrian armies were the most heavily Jewish populated military forces in the world at the
    time. Astonishingly high numbers of officers.

    Going a bit further, why did the Germans invade France? Couldn’t they have simply fortified their own border and just smashed the snot out of Russia? Why France? They had no ability to conduct offensive operations. They’d have simply let Russia fall after a couple of desultory attempts to attack border forts.
    I strongly suspect Jewy Jewbergstein was actually backing the Kaiser until 1917. Until it looked like the Kaiser was losing the Jews were all in with the Second Reich and the Habsburgs.
    Whining Germans.

    Don’t forget the German high command sent the Bolsheviks to St Petersberg to kill the Czar.

  106. Marcy Fleming's Gravatar Marcy Fleming
    October 3, 2012 - 6:05 pm | Permalink

    Thanks, D.K. Al shared your spot on comments with me. We all greatly appreciate your support and your intelligent advocacy.
    Many of us have stopped reading VDARE. I’m rereading Dr. MacDonald’s Culture Of Critique and I thought the foreword to the second paperback edition was on the money. I too am half Mick and half Ashkenazim and appreciate the running historical debates here. People are bringing out so many cogent observations about WW2, the Thirty Years religious wars, civilian saturation bombing started by the Brits, the unfortunate German bias toward the Union in the War Between The States and of course the intellectually schzoid
    Ashkenazim split between between forced diversity in the West and an apartheid state in Palestine. I feel like I’m getting a post-graduate education just reading the articles and the comments.

  107. D. K.'s Gravatar D. K.
    October 3, 2012 - 5:05 pm | Permalink

    @Frank Edwin Stone:

    So, Univision’s Jorge Ramos is not a real Mexican, because he is a blue-eyed white man, rather than a brown-eyed mestizo or indigene? Former Mexican president Vicente Fox is not a real Mexican, because he is of purely European extraction, with his mother coming from Spain, and his father’s family coming from Strasbourg, via Cincinnati, Ohio? How about Salma Hayek, whose mother is of Spanish descent, and whose father is of Lebanese descent? Does her being swarthy make her a real Mexican, even though she is neither Indian nor mestiza? Was John Wayne’s second Hispanic wife, of his three, actress Esperanza Baur, not a real Mexican, because she was white and, like Presidente Fox, had a non-Spanish surname?

    Mexico, like the United States, is a political nation-state. Mexicans, like Americans, are a nationality, not a race. “Mexican” is, along with being a noun, an adjective, meaning “of or related to Mexico or its inhabitants”– as was the Mexican-born and -raised Governor Romney, the Elder, and, thereby, his American-born chilren, including Governor Romney, the Younger!

  108. Frank Edwin Stone's Gravatar Frank Edwin Stone
    October 3, 2012 - 3:26 pm | Permalink

    @D. K.: My friend, thanks for splitting hairs and spinning what is hard to spin.
    In the real world, in America, a Mexican is almost always a mestizo/Indian type with a Spanish name and a veneer of Spanish culture.
    Most Americans would not think of white Mexicans as Mexican, whatever their citizenship may be.
    To think of an English descended Mormon, born in Mexico as a Mexican is quite a stretch. George Romney descended from American Mormons fleeing the US after anti-Mormon sentiment hardened in America as a consequence of the Mountain Meadows Massacre committed by the Mprmons.

  109. Frank Edwin Stone's Gravatar Frank Edwin Stone
    October 3, 2012 - 2:59 pm | Permalink

    @Jason Speaks:
    For your information, 3/5 of the population of Germany perished during the 30 year War.
    While you raise the valid point that whites had been killing each other long before Bomber Harris and Churchill initiated the genocidal campaign against their own kinfolk and German-descended Dwight Eisenhower starved 1.7 million German POWs in his death camps, the difference between the internecine wars of long ago times and the modern age is enprmous.
    The accumulated historical and scientific knowledge of our modern era provides no excuse for the above mentioned butchers. What makes it even worse is that they did it all on behalf of the Jew and his Evil Empire in Russia.
    It was only by a hair that Europe survived the combination of Jewish intrigue and mindless, Fraser-style English chauvinism.
    During the First World War, shouts were heard from the German trenches: “we are Saxons, you are Anglo-Saxons, do not shoot!”
    This led to the famous Christmas truce, when soldiers refused to fight. That was a unique moment in history and should be a a national Day of Remembrance by all European nations.
    By the way, it was not the German officers who ordered their troops beck into the slaughterhouse upon pain of court-martial, but the English and French.

  110. Dan's Gravatar Dan
    October 3, 2012 - 2:40 pm | Permalink

    Kennedy along with his Irish cohort was at war with Anglos. The Democrats still are. The immigration bill, siding with catholic Hispanics and sucking up to Jewish media owners and producers. See Matthews, Odonnell, Oreilly, Hannity, Dowd, Russert et al. John Stewart is half Mick half Jew. Tim Wise same. Colbert has an irishy chip on his shoulder.
    There’s no reason to pretend they don’t do it. It certainly can’t be fixed by staying silent.

  111. Bear's Gravatar Bear
    October 3, 2012 - 2:10 pm | Permalink

    @Dan:
    Here of course we have a potential problem, Anglo-Saxon consciousness may put of side some other white ethnic groups who need to be on side, particularly the Irish spring to mind. It must be done with some care. Kennedy’s opening of immigration is in part seen as a war on Anglo-Saxons. Jews, with a common subliminal disgust of Whites are quick to leveredge an opportunity to drive a wedge between Whites over any difference. As one famous Austrian said, they prefer to pick at a scab and open it up than to heel it.

  112. Dan's Gravatar Dan
    October 3, 2012 - 1:05 pm | Permalink

    The mick’s always let the French or Spanish in by the backdoor.

    Cromwell had the same problem.

    These days the Irish in Australia chummied up to media YKW and act as attack dogs. Murdoch for example. He’s got that anti English aggression too. He Hates the monarch, married a daughter to a Freud, married to a ghanan before that, then married a Chinese. He’s a catholic Celt who owns much of the press in the US, Australia and UK. He has fools like Oreilly, Hannity etc working for him. They are all reflexively anti Anglo. They are all antiracist too. The Sun et al vilifies racist Brits. typically chip on his shoulder Celto-Australian traitor.

    Useless paddies.

  113. Pierre de Craon's Gravatar Pierre de Craon
    October 3, 2012 - 12:58 pm | Permalink

    @Pat Hannagan:

    … along with that reclamation they might like to acknowledge their destructive role in bringing about the collapse of White Australia.

    I no longer know what to think of you, Mr. Hannagan. Your expectations have lost any and all connection with reality. Next thing, you’ll be demanding that they grant, however grudgingly, that 2 + 2 = 4. Please get real.

    Furthermore, I have to admit to being pretty upset with all these other people who talk endlessly about “Scots.” Why, the term is hardly less appropriate than a use of “white” that counts Italians, Greeks, and Serbs as relatives of the pure descendants of the body-painting hordes of … well, wherever they were from … before they took the jobs that Mayor Bloombergus said Romans would no longer do—like become legionaries.

    The point is that “Scots” is a conqueror’s term for noble Caledonii, Taexali, Vacomagi, Creones, and half a dozen other tribes proud nations that wouldn’t spit on the best part of one another. When are these Jewified white-unity types going to understand that what we need are fewer but better whites?—with, however, lots of nuclear weapons and cradle-to-grave social welfare programs paid for by shaking down neighboring nonwhite (hence, contemptible in moral terms) nations for tribute.

  114. October 3, 2012 - 12:08 pm | Permalink

    Sorry, Kurtagic.

  115. October 3, 2012 - 12:07 pm | Permalink

    @sanjay

    Don’t you read Abe’s Diffamation League news and similar outlets? Prof. MacDonald is one third Belzebub and five thirds Lucifer. The Witches of Endor play also into it, but we don’t remeber anymore to what exact degree. Anyway, you only have to look at Alex Kertagic’s photo to know that I am right.

  116. Vlad Writes's Gravatar Vlad Writes
    October 3, 2012 - 11:27 am | Permalink

    Anglo-Saxons may not run New Orleans anymore, but the proud legacy of diversity is thriving in the New Orleans Court System:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2211990/Oops-New-Orleans-prosecutor-drops-JOINT-court–police-officers.html

  117. Pat Hannagan's Gravatar Pat Hannagan
    October 3, 2012 - 9:59 am | Permalink

    Until the very recent upsurge in immigration, as Fraser points out, these societies had a very strong ethnic and cultural identity as Anglo-Saxon.

    Crikey!

    I recall the Protestants considered themselves “British to the bootstraps”, but I will have to wait till our little Scots Canadian, Andrew de Freseliere, sources this notion of ourselves as Anglo-Saxon.

    I get the impression he is confusing being an Anglican with being an Anglo-Saxon. The two are not one and the same.

    That being said, I do agree that “a good argument can be made that a resurgence of Anglo-Saxon ethnic identity is the key to reclaiming their rightful inheritance. ” And along with that reclamation they might like to acknowledge their destructive role in bringing about the collapse of White Australia.

  118. Pierre de Craon's Gravatar Pierre de Craon
    October 3, 2012 - 9:50 am | Permalink

    @online. Please read it, everyone who can read and grasp the content of what he reads (i.e., Dan, Tom, and several others needn’t bother trying).

  119. Dan's Gravatar Dan
    October 3, 2012 - 8:25 am | Permalink

    If we want to get tribal and specific I’m Hwicce, Cornish and Thames Valley through and through. Very specific little patches of England. Plus Irish Catholic paternally. Probably more Celt than Saxon. But I don’t like what I’ve seen watching the peawit’s come flying out of woodwork to put down English and Brits more generally. There’s a reason you all speak English.

    Now about these Nordics and high culture…

    Were Newton, Darwin, Dickens, Brunel, Reynolds, Coleridge, constable,
    Stevenson, Faraday, Bell, Dunlop, Joyce,
    Shakespeare, Nordic? Really? Or even aristocratic blood?

  120. Jason Speaks's Gravatar Jason Speaks
    October 3, 2012 - 8:19 am | Permalink

    @-jc:

    I like that poem a lot. But I cannot find it on any list of Kipling poems on the internet. I do see it referenced by a ton of WN sites. Do we know for sure this was done by Kipling?

    I noticed some other discussions saying it wasn’t listed among Kipling poems. I just want to be sure before I go quoting as authentic. If he didn’t do it, whoever did should take credit.

  121. Dan's Gravatar Dan
    October 3, 2012 - 7:57 am | Permalink

    The real problem is that we stopped fighting each other. We were happier at each other’s throats and more fertile. Peace among us (the EU and US ) is killing our peculial Vigor.

  122. -jc's Gravatar -jc
    October 3, 2012 - 7:57 am | Permalink

    THE WRATH OF THE AWAKENED SAXON
    by Rudyard Kipling

    It was not part of their blood,
    It came to them very late,
    With long arrears to make good,
    When the Saxon began to hate.

    They were not easily moved,
    They were icy — willing to wait
    Till every count should be proved,
    Ere the Saxon began to hate.

    Their voices were even and low.
    Their eyes were level and straight.
    There was neither sign nor show
    When the Saxon began to hate.

    It was not preached to the crowd.
    It was not taught by the state.
    No man spoke it aloud
    When the Saxon began to hate.

    It was not suddenly bred.
    It will not swiftly abate.
    Through the chilled years ahead,
    When Time shall count from the date
    That the Saxon began to hate.

  123. EtruscoUmbroPicenoGallic's Gravatar EtruscoUmbroPicenoGallic
    October 3, 2012 - 7:48 am | Permalink

    @sanjay:
    Prof MacDonald is Dinaric, to be sure, but I would not call him swarthy.

    He is probably Gallic by ancestry with a tid bit of actual Germanic. That is, he is probably 3/4 southern German.

    Gallic DNA is prevalent not just in Ireland and Scotland, but in Austria, South Germany, France, England, Catalonia, Padania, as well as many part of Central Italy and Serbia. Don’t let linguistic patterns fool you. Only a minority of the (white)English are actual, bona fide Germanic Saxons despite what they have managed to convince themselves of.

    Some Celts were “swarthy” by Nordic standards. Many of them probably resembled Federer, Gerard Pique, Andrea Pirlo, Camillo Golgi and Arnaud Clément(South German, Catalan, 2 Eastern Lombards and Occitan, respectively).

    The prof looks like a cross between Pirlo and Tazio Nuvolari,imo, who was a Mantovano Emilian.

  124. 90404's Gravatar 90404
    October 3, 2012 - 1:36 am | Permalink

    @Sanjay:
    Black Irish is a ‘fantasy’. Not all Irish are Blond.
    However now there are afro-Irish and lotsa mulattos, w/o dads.
    [the african DNA at work, deposit sperm and run].

  125. 90404's Gravatar 90404
    October 3, 2012 - 1:31 am | Permalink

    @Athanasius:
    I like yr post!

  126. Jason Speaks's Gravatar Jason Speaks
    October 3, 2012 - 12:46 am | Permalink

    It is a great tragedy that so many Whites were killed in WWII. But so were the huge numbers slaughtered in the Thirty Years’ War, almost 400 years ago. My understanding is that at least 20% of the German population died and perhaps as high as 30%. To put that in perspective, that would be equal to 60 million Americans dying in the next thirty years in conflict. Pretty bloody.

    My point is that there seems to be selective outrage among N*zis on this issue. They all hate Bomber Harris worse than Satan, yet there have been German commanders (in the 17th century) that killed a greater proportion of Germans then he did. So what’s the point? The point is, until very recently, all struggles for real power were between White groups.

    Germans vs French vs Italians vs Americans vs Spanish vs British. That’s normal life. People compete for power, and for several centuries, Whites were really the only competitors for power, so they often wound up at war with each other. This is not some Deep Mystery. Nor is one group especially demonic or angelic.

    The British engaged in unnecessary killing of Germans. We had Germans come over during the Civil War who went to kill Southern Whites. The Spanish killed British. It had been that way for centuries.

    Can we grow up, and stop acting like Hitler was some Magic Man that cared deeply for all of us, and that Americans and British, for the first time in history, brought White-on-White crime into the world?

    Yes, uncover all the mistakes the Allies made. And the Axis powers too. But remember, the N*zis loved power as do ANY group of politicians, and there are numerous examples of them putting Party before Race.

  127. D. K.'s Gravatar D. K.
    October 3, 2012 - 12:20 am | Permalink

    @Frank Edwin Stone:

    Mexico is a political nation-state; Mexicans are citizens of that nation-state, regardless of their race, ethnicity or national origins. Mexican Americans are Americans of Mexican origin or Mexican extraction, regardless of their race or ethnicity. Mitt Romney’s father, George, was an immigrant to the United States– born in Mexico, to Mexican residents of American nationality– not an immigrant to Mexico. The fact that he had neither Iberian nor indigenous Indian (e.g., Aztec) blood is beside the point; George was a Mexican American by birth, and his son is one by extraction. Mitt Romney is himself descended from a native-born resident of a Spanish-speaking nation of Latin America, which makes him an Hispanic American, in the eyes of the United States government– whether or not Mitt, his siblings, and their many Caucasian-American offspring choose to avail themselves of that status, by checking the appropriate boxes on the appropriate forms. They are, in the parlance of our own elites, if not the government per se, “people of color”– presumed to be both oppressed and discriminated against, simply by virtue of their national descent from a Mexican-born and -raised forebear. Similarly, both Martin and Charlie Sheen, and their (other) children, are considered Hispanic Americans, by virtue of Martin Sheen’s father having been a Spanish emigrant; likewise, the late Rita Hayworth (nee Margarita Carmen Cansino) and her own two daughters, with Orson Welles and the Prince Aly Khan.

  128. Dan's Gravatar Dan
    October 2, 2012 - 11:57 pm | Permalink

    Romney is turning his back on the white working class. He is playing to lose.

  129. EEur1939's Gravatar EEur1939
    October 2, 2012 - 11:14 pm | Permalink

    @Kevin MacDonald Care to elaborate on these “important differences”?

  130. Connor McNessa's Gravatar Connor McNessa
    October 2, 2012 - 10:44 pm | Permalink

    @DK
    Good point about Romney’s Hispandering and pro-illegal immigration policy. Another agent was killed on the border last night. http://news.yahoo.com/border-patrol-agent-shot-killed-patrol-ariz-141945578.html
    All supporters of illegal immigration are complicit in his death and those of all of the other agents who are shot on the border with Mexico. They are enablers of the border violence, including coyote and drug smuggler Zeta violence.
    As for the Presidential “election,” these wonderful fellows both support illegal immigration, apparently. There is no discussion in the campaigns of the draconian Soviet Communist style NDAA totalitarian law or any of the other Soviet style totalitarian laws like the Hate Crimes law that were foisted upon us. It would be very worthwhile to get that piece of work Holder out of the Justice department and to get the Black Power “President” out, however.

  131. Honeybun's Gravatar Honeybun
    October 2, 2012 - 10:43 pm | Permalink

    @Frank Edwin Stone: Well, from my understanding, the Scotch-Irish are a sort of admixture group, comprised of about 60% Scottish settlers, but with 40% other groups imported, such as French Hugenots, Germans, and even some southern Europeans. They took Irish spouses to some extent and assimilated into Gaelic culture. They practised there own brand of Calvanism, Presbityrianism. This constitutes something of an ethnogenesis, I suppose, but would they still be considered Anglosaxon? I don’t think they would be Celtic. I will read up on the topic.

  132. Whites Unite's Gravatar Whites Unite
    October 2, 2012 - 10:20 pm | Permalink

    Crevecouer, writing before the American Revolution, uses the word “American” to refer to the exact same group of people we describe as “White American”:

    “What then is the American, this new man? He is either an European, or the descendant of an European . . .

    They are mixture of English, Scotch, Irish, French, Dutch, Germans and Swedes. From this promiscuous breed, that race now called Americans have arisen . . .

    The Americans were once scattered all over Europe; here they are incorporated into one of the finest systems of population which has ever appeared.”

    John Jay also considered Americans to be an ethnic group, united by race, language, religion and political principles:

    “Providence has been pleased to give this one connected country to one united people – a people descended from the same ancestors, speaking the same language, professing the same religion, attached to the same principles of government, very similar in their manners and customs . . . a band of brethren, united to each other by the strongest ties”

  133. Frank Edwin Stone's Gravatar Frank Edwin Stone
    October 2, 2012 - 10:14 pm | Permalink

    @Elie:
    There are few examples in modern history when a people exhibited the heights of greatness together with the depths of stupidity and ignorance as the so-called “Anglo-Saxon race”.
    I say the so-called Anglo-Saxon race, because there is no such thing as an Anglo-Saxon race.
    The Angles, Saxons and Jutes were three German tribes that conquered the Romanized Celtic population of Britain.
    They are simply a Western branch of the Germans, just like the Vikings were a Northern branch of the Germans.
    Now, that they belong to the Nordic race is true, but they themselves do not form a race compared to other Northern Europeans.

    They exhibited the most unbelievable ignorance, idiocy and self destructive behavior in the last 100 years.
    They initiated and fought two wars against their own mother country, Germany, verging on attempted genocide, even allied themselves with the Devil itself, Stalin’s Judeo-Bolshevik hellhole.
    They are so ignorant and brain-washed that they erected a statue to Bomber Harris, the genocidal mass murderer of hundreds of thousands of German women innd children.
    In Dresden alone he buchered over a hundred thousand Saxon women and children in two nights of firebombings.

    The mass murderer of essentially his own people gets a statue in London in 1992. This obscenity borders on insanity.
    England not only committed suicide, but destroyed Western civilization as well.
    The English intermarried with the Jewish moneybags for 200 years at the highest levels. They are owned by the Jews.
    They also invented the modern concentration camp during the Boer wars, for Boer (white, Germanic) women and children.

    The suicide of England and the destruction of Western civilization is best described by Patrick Buchanan in his “The Unnecessary War” and the works of British historian David Irving.

  134. Frank Edwin Stone's Gravatar Frank Edwin Stone
    October 2, 2012 - 9:27 pm | Permalink

    @Fatboy: The Scotch-Irish are Kelts not Anglo-Saxons.
    They have adopted the religion, language and culture of the Anglo-Saxons

  135. Frank Edwin Stone's Gravatar Frank Edwin Stone
    October 2, 2012 - 9:23 pm | Permalink

    @Sanjay:
    Prof.@D. K.: Mitt Romney has no Mexican ancestry. His father was a Mormon immigrant to Mexico, a delusional Anglo-Saxon , like all Mormons.
    Mexico has large white populations of Mennonite Germans as well.

  136. guest's Gravatar guest
    October 2, 2012 - 9:18 pm | Permalink

    As a son of the Saxon people, I approve this message. I like the theme of the article: that we should support Whiteness as a whole while also nurturing the indiviual cultural identities.

    Athanasius: Don’t listen to naysayers. All Whites are family!

  137. Whites Unite's Gravatar Whites Unite
    October 2, 2012 - 8:48 pm | Permalink

    Mazzini once compared the nations of Europe to a group of different flowers, which together made a bouquet.

    White America is a new flower, a hybrid of all the others. This unique, precious, irreplaceable new flower enhances the bouquet which is European civilization.

    Europe is our motherland, especially northwest Europe, especially England and lowland Scotland.

    We are of European race, mostly of Nordic race, largely of Anglo-Saxon race.

  138. dc's Gravatar dc
    October 2, 2012 - 8:13 pm | Permalink

    @Eumaeus:

    Good show!

  139. Jason Speaks's Gravatar Jason Speaks
    October 2, 2012 - 8:09 pm | Permalink

    What is the big deal over various White groups having a special identity? Obviously, there is an overall sense of Whiteness among all White groups in the US. At the same time, groups retain some identity as Germans, Poles, Russians, Anglo-Saxons, etc., because, that is what they are.

    They can both exist. And the fact is there are real genetic and cultural traits underlying each group. Italians are a bit different from Germans. Russians are a bit different from Greeks. Slavs from Nordics. As someone said, there is “diversity” among Whites. Why pretend like there is some conflict over the issue?

    Most Italian Americans living in the North probably wish to remain Italian. Most Southern Whites want to retain their identity. Yet, we all identify as White.

  140. Athanasius's Gravatar Athanasius
    October 2, 2012 - 6:21 pm | Permalink

    @Dan: I don’t see how you’ve gleaned from anything I’ve written the notion that I hate English people.

    Why should I have to go back to Greece? My ancestors spilled blood and had their own blood spilled in both of your ridiculous world wars; and they spent years toiling at the most unpleasant work imaginable–the work that made this country the industrial power that it is.

    They aren’t like immigrants today who, fresh off the boat from the Punjab get handed a small business loan and then send their kids to med school.

  141. October 2, 2012 - 5:41 pm | Permalink

    Prof. MacDonald

    I thought you were Black Irish. If you are 3/4 German and 1/4 Scottish, how come you look so swarthy and not Milky?

    Did you do a DNA on yourself to see if you have Jewish or Native American in you?

    As usual your message is very precise and of utmost utility to the White people, White culture and White Spirit.

  142. Someday's Gravatar Someday
    October 2, 2012 - 5:28 pm | Permalink

    I think Fraser misses the important points Jared Taylor makes about the importance of morality to White people. Why Everyone Else is Wrong Fraser thinks “WASPs alone are discouraged from parading under their own colours. ” The truth is that WASPs are the only ones who don’t want to.

    And we should all have a sense of our common cultural heritage, spanning from the ancient Greeks, the Italian Renaissance, the German Baroque, and the English novel.

    A White identity that WASPs could subscribe to, would stress the ethical advances made by Whites. The ancient Greek word translated as ‘good’ meant something quite different than the modern concept of good. White nationalists can’t expect to win supporters by saying Whites mistake was treating other peoples in an ethical way over the last 50 years. The altruism of White people shouldn’t be repudiated. Unfortunately it seems that there is indeed a tendency for political tendencies to go to extremes, and that is why any avowal of White identity is thought so dangerous. A successful brand of white nationalism would have convinced the people that there are moral limits to what it would try and achieve. This would not be giving up anything because the immoral objectives are now unfeasible.

  143. D. K.'s Gravatar D. K.
    October 2, 2012 - 4:48 pm | Permalink

    @Dan:

    Mitt Romney is an Hispanic American of Mexican-American descent. He is also a devout Globalist. As such (and as a devout Mormon, to boot), he fully intends to legalize the last 26 years’ worth of illegal aliens, and to keep the borders of the United States as permanently porous as politically plausible– which will result in America’s becoming a mongrelized, Third World-like, Latin American country, by the end of this 21st century. Ergo, I do not care from what English landscape Mr. Romney’s Anglo-Saxon surname was derived….

  144. D. K.'s Gravatar D. K.
    October 2, 2012 - 4:30 pm | Permalink

    @Marcy Fleming:

    As I told your friend, in an e-mail, a copy of which went to VDare.com, its letters editor only posts letters critical of the site (including his own comments) when he believes that he can thoroughly debunk them in his editorial comments– inserted directly below the critical letters, and not subject to further rebuttal by the original letters’ respective authors, such as your friend. Instead, VDare.com followed up with a letter claiming that we might still be fighting Japan in an ongoing World War II, but for the atomic bombings, and which included this jaw-dropping bit of idiocy: “Hitler invaded the Soviet Union in an attempt to get us into the European War.” By “us,” of course, he meant the United States.

    VDare.com purports to be a Web site dedicated to the “National Question”– but, in essence, it is a paleo-conservative site (a “right-wing blog,” as that letters editor helpfully admitted, just the other day, in explaining why VDare.com, unlike this site, does not allow reader comments to be posted there!) whose apparent goal is to retake control of the Republican Party from the Neocons and Wall Street banksters, merely seeing prompt immigration abatement as the necessary first step in saving that party from political oblivion, altogether. I read a lot of things on that Web site, because I am anti-immigration; but, I never forget what Mr. Brimelow’s real game is….

  145. Dan's Gravatar Dan
    October 2, 2012 - 4:15 pm | Permalink

    What’s wrong with just living in Greece then? What about Crete? It is quite nice. It’s very Anglophile too. You would probably hate it.

    What did any Brit? Aussie? WASP? Canuck? Kiwi? Ever do to you? Apart from allow you into first rate nations to enrich yourselves.

  146. D. K.'s Gravatar D. K.
    October 2, 2012 - 4:00 pm | Permalink

    I am Irish, English, Scottish, Welsh, German, Alsatian and Dutch, on my father’s side. I am also half Slovak. My Dutch ancestors settled in present-day New York in the 1630s. My Slovak grandparents arrived during the “Great Wave” of the late-19th and early-20th centuries. I was raised Roman Catholic (long-since lapsed), my Protestant father having converted after having three kids (of nine) with my Catholic mother. I was raised to be two things: a good Catholic and a good American. So, I ended up hitting .500, or only scoring 50%, depending upon how one cares to look at it. Regardless, I do not need a Canadian emigrant who is a naturalized Australian citizen telling me that I am, or ought to be seen as, a mere second-class American, or human being, because I am not a hallowed WASP, like the insufferable Andrew Fraser. As they say in the old country, Andie, albeit not one of my own: “Vafanculo!”

  147. Random's Gravatar Random
    October 2, 2012 - 3:44 pm | Permalink

    @Tom:

    I’m glad to see that what’s left of the White European Greeks are resisting the Jew & global banker imposed tyranny.

    So when are we going to see some of that kind of action coming from all the Southern Bible prophecy morons? I’m sure the 1 million+ members of “Christians United For Israel” (mostly English-descended Protestants) are going to teach the jews a thing or two real soon now, huh? LOL.

  148. Eumaeus's Gravatar Eumaeus
    October 2, 2012 - 3:32 pm | Permalink

    My grandfather was Greek and a cultural Anglophile. Many assimilated Greeks migrated into Episcopalian churches in the US and intermarried as did my grandfather. I count my Scot or English or German ancestors as proudly as any other, for their own merits, and they had their own faults.

    And who can really hate American WASPs as such, I could never spite Anglos, that is just democrat party angling. Sure, we can all rue the English exploitation of the Irish. or the excesses of the reformation. But I embrace whites and they embrace me. I have black hair but I’m tall and modestly handsome and I have never in person had a white person try and demean me for my Hellenic ancestry, Not since third grade and that kid got a bloody nose.

    In practice, at every racial pow-wow I have been to in person, and that is more than a handful, I have found white nationalists are very kind and polite people, far exceeding average American social norms of friendliness. This is not an issue.

    As for the questions of whether or not one person or another has a scintilla more non-European ancestry, those obsessive questions speak more for those who ask them than what they answer. If I had a nickel for every white guy like Chuck Norris who had some Injun ancestor! Lets get away from the reflexive and reactionary obsession over DNA tracing racial hairsplitting.

  149. Athanasius's Gravatar Athanasius
    October 2, 2012 - 3:14 pm | Permalink

    @Tom: If you want me over there with them maybe your great-grandparents should have thought about that before opening up the floodgates.

    And while we’re on the subject, you English could have not f*cked us over by siding with the brown Muslims and the Jews during the Smyrna campaign or again siding with the Muslims and the Jews over Cyprus.

  150. Athanasius's Gravatar Athanasius
    October 2, 2012 - 3:10 pm | Permalink

    @Dan: No one here is saying what you suggest.

    You and Tom are hypersensitive because while many (most perhaps) of the accomplishments of American civilization stem from Anglo-Saxon Protestants, ALL of the f*ckups can be attributed to them. I guarantee that every Greek, from the swarthiest, greasiest Capadocian to to the blonde Cephalonian, who walked through the gates at Ellis Island was Jew-wise. We can’t very well say that same for your Boston Brahmins, now can we?

  151. Dan's Gravatar Dan
    October 2, 2012 - 3:02 pm | Permalink

    This comment thread is further evidence of the aggressiveness of the lesser ethne’s continued jealousy toward the more successful English. What’s wrong with pointing out that America was founded by English colonists? That America is Anglophone and shares much of it’s history with Anglo-Saxon cultures dotted around the world? Romney, couldn’t be much more English. Romney is an area in Kent. It’s an Anglo-Saxon place name. “Rom’s Island” .

    Lose your actual history and replace it with an ersatz history that lesser people are comfortable with and you lose everything.

  152. Tom's Gravatar Tom
    October 2, 2012 - 2:55 pm | Permalink

    @Athanasius:

    I’m glad to see that what’s left of the White European Greeks are resisting the Jew & global banker imposed tyranny.

    Just think, you could be over there with them. Rather than knocking White Protestant Americans who have treated you sooo badly. Oh you poor little White Greek. LOL.

    Of course the greasy little Greek types like George Stephanopoulos are probably ready to stick a knife in your back if you make a move.

  153. Marcy Fleming's Gravatar Marcy Fleming
    October 2, 2012 - 2:48 pm | Permalink

    I stopped looking at the American Renaissance about two months ago. As a secular Jew (Mom’s side) who had sixteen years of a great Roman Catholic classical education though I
    have long been an atheist I refuse to pay tribute to Israel or the Shoah (‘Holocaust’) Business racket. I was repeatedly censored at American Renaissance while Left-Liberal advocates of Jewish Supremacism were given full sway to write the most awful Ashkenazim racism and pro-‘Oriental’
    (sic) nonsense on stilts. One jackass regularly praised the vile leftist New York Times, Obama, the Democratic Party and the pansy-filled Ivy League universities and the only censorship was of his critics ! I am a native San Franciscan and I refuse to call sexual perverts ‘gays.’ But at The American Conservative you will be censored for this as much as you would be at the San Francisco Chronicle.
    Recently a friend of mine was censored at VDARE for opposing Truman’s militarily unnecessary atomic bombings and FDR’s concentration camps for Japanese-Americans.
    Apparently the function of Conservatism Inc. is to defend the legacy of the leftwing Democrats. Which is why many of us are going to cheer when the SS Romney goes down next month. The Ayn Rand Institute is simply an Israeli Front.
    We need a New Right here.

  154. Pierre de Craon's Gravatar Pierre de Craon
    October 2, 2012 - 2:31 pm | Permalink

    @Alice Teller:

    Once again Tom is treating us all to a breath-taking display of ignorance and blind hatred.

    One might say in his defense that he’s a man who sticks to what he does best.

  155. fender's Gravatar fender
    October 2, 2012 - 2:30 pm | Permalink

    @Elie:

    Not to mention the fact that England was completely Jew-owned long before America was.

  156. Pierre de Craon's Gravatar Pierre de Craon
    October 2, 2012 - 2:29 pm | Permalink

    Virtually all Scots and Irish have mingled bloodlines. Their very languages, Scottish and Irish Gaelic, bear witness to their common roots and to the constant movements of peoples, in both historic and prehistoric times, from one side of the Irish Sea to the other.

  157. Elie's Gravatar Elie
    October 2, 2012 - 2:24 pm | Permalink

    @Athanasius:

    “Again, the problem wasn’t greasy people like me, who were building your railroads, mining your coal, and milling your steel–it was your great-granparents who congratulating themselves on how clever they were for discussing Freud in the parlor with newly hired Jewish professors at Columbia.”

    TELL THEM THE TRUTH!

    But let me add,

    They were also fighting my ancestors’ kin in Germany in, not one, but TWO wars, which only ended in the underworld of Europe enslaving the Czechs, Hungarians, Poles, etc, along with the Germans themselves.

    Now it’s here to get you, Anglo-Americans.

    You are in no place to accuse the Eastern and Southern Europeans of helping the Jews take over the west.

    YOU IDIOTS were FIGHTING AS A ALLY WITH THE SOVIET UNION!

  158. Dan's Gravatar Dan
    October 2, 2012 - 2:06 pm | Permalink

    The Scotch-Irish are NOT Irish.

    They have English and lowland Scot ancestors. Basically English border ruffians.

    Irish here is a misnomer.

  159. Alice Teller's Gravatar Alice Teller
    October 2, 2012 - 2:03 pm | Permalink

    @Tom:
    Once again Tom is treating us all to a breath-taking display of ignorance and blind hatred. I spent a fair amount of time in several areas of Greece. There are a few natural blonds, many children have very light brown hair which often darkens to brown or auburn hair in adulthood. Most Greeks have fair skin which tans easily.

    Now all together now, everyone follow Tom’s lead and form a circular firing squad. That will help.

  160. Athanasius's Gravatar Athanasius
    October 2, 2012 - 1:57 pm | Permalink

    @Tom: Modern Greeks are racially mixed, there is no denying that–but not in the way most of you probably think.

    In any event, I refuse to reject even darker Greeks. (who likely have some Hittite, Assyrian, Persian, Lydian, or Uze/Cuman blood)

    Be that as it may, I’m a Greek-American, and everyone in my family has blue eyes–my brothers have blonde hair and are very fair skinned. I probably have skin about the same tone as Stephanopoulos, but much lighter hair and blue eyes.

    Again, the problem wasn’t greasy people like me, who were building your railroads, mining your coal, and milling your steel–it was your great-granparents who congratulating themselves on how clever they were for discussing Freud in the parlor with newly hired Jewish professors at Columbia.

  161. Tom's Gravatar Tom
    October 2, 2012 - 1:44 pm | Permalink

    @ Dr. MacDonald

    I don’t think the term WASP was ever intended to be used exclusively as a descriptor for the English in America. But, was used in general to describe the White Protestant peoples of North Western Europe. That’s how Kenneth L. Roberts, Thomas E. Watson, Madison Grant, and others used it.

    I’m surprised Kevin that you have never read Kenneth L. Roberts, “Why Europe Leaves Home”. It’s available on Google Books, Amazon, and in most better used book stores. I think it would speak to you! ;)

  162. Fatboy's Gravatar Fatboy
    October 2, 2012 - 1:40 pm | Permalink

    I have a question: Are Scotch-Irish a subset of Anglo-Saxons, or are they a distinct group? Irish are Celtic and therefore not a subset of the AngloSaxon race, am I correct on that?

  163. Tom's Gravatar Tom
    October 2, 2012 - 1:32 pm | Permalink

    It’s interesting that in watching the spokesmen, and crowd shots of the Greek Nationalists, they look very White & Northern European. The surely are not the greasy, swarthy little George Stephanopolos or Michael Dukakis types of Greeks, Americans are accustomed too.

  164. Tom's Gravatar Tom
    October 2, 2012 - 1:31 pm | Permalink

    It’s interesting that in watching the spokesmen, and crowd shots of the Greek Nationalists, they look very White & Northern European. The surely are not the greasy, swarthy little George Stephanopolos or Michael Dukakis types of Greeks Americans are accustomed too.

  165. who+dares+wings's Gravatar who+dares+wings
    October 2, 2012 - 1:26 pm | Permalink

    The crises is over. He is here. He walks among us. He is Michael Flatley….”The Celtic Tiger!”

  166. Elie's Gravatar Elie
    October 2, 2012 - 1:20 pm | Permalink

    Pay attention to Golden Dawn. They are a growing storm. I’m sure you know, but they have 20 percent approval from Greek voters already! They have infiltrated 80% of the Greek police.

    If they can make it, we will have at least one power structure to ally with.

    It may also be a domino effect.

    The Anglo-Saxons can go have their culture, but I don’t see them doing anything to help us during this international onslaught.

    They think they are going to hold on to their capital ownership forever.

    Well, that’s funny.

    I mean–like I have said before, I’m not a Commie–it is almost a scientific fact that the growing Democratic power-structure in America is going to physically remove the Republicans from their ownership of capital. But they still refuse to believe it.

    Just like with Christianity, they stick their fingers in their ears and say “I’m not listening.”

    What do you expect from a people who came to America thinking they were going to spread the Gospel?

  167. Eric Hale's Gravatar Eric Hale
    October 2, 2012 - 1:14 pm | Permalink

    Love Fraser’s book and recent article, and this is a nice response from KMac. I am near 100% colonial British in descent myself, sans a touch of colonial Dutch and a sprinkle of colonial French…you’ll find a lot of near-to-wholly British people in the South.

    I’m hearing more and more open disgust with the anti-white character of modern America, and more pro-white sentiment all the time. Especially among young, married couples with kids. Texas school systems are becoming war zones full of the refuse of the third world, and everyone with any sense of decency is sick of it.

  168. October 2, 2012 - 11:05 am | Permalink

    “My hope is that these two strands can eventually win the day despite the current very large threat to our people and culture.”

    Living in the trenches I have to tell you that your hope seems, to this reader, far-fetched.
    We will not vote our way out of this.
    Like everything, in the end, it will be settled on the streets.

    “Whoever can conquer the street will one day conquer the state, for every form of power politics and any dictatorship-run state has its roots in the street.”

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