It is nothing new when someone gets blacklisted or relentlessly attacked for challenging Jewish interests. When it comes to actual Jews challenging the interests of the “tribe” regarding Israel, a different tack must be taken. After all, destroying the career of a fellow Jew is not desirable to most other Jews; but some degree of punishment mixed with reward must be introduced to correct undesirable behavior and it should be done behind the scenes so as not to draw media attention.
The recent events surrounding Richard Goldstone backtracking on the Goldstone Report go a long way to illustrate how the Jewish community deals with someone how strays outside the playbook on Israel. However, another example has recently cropped up which further illustrates how members of the “tribe” are dealt with when they criticize the Jewish State. The New York Times reports that Tony Kushner, a Jewish playwright and screenwriter, who wrote Angels in America: A Gay Fantasia on National Themes (a mediation on gay themes that is a contribution to destruction of traditional cultural attitudes on sexuality), was recently denied an honorary degree from the City of New York University system for statements critical of Israel. However, in this case, it seems that the main antagonist aligned against Kushner, a fellow Jew, crossed the line, or at least did not go about his business in an acceptable manner. Indeed, his efforts ultimately backfired: Kushner will receive the degree, and the faculty union demanded that Weisenfeld resign from the CUNY board.
The person primarily responsible for attacking Kushner is a CUNY board trustee, Jeffrey S. Wiesenfeld, who is now on record as saying Palestinians are less than human, according to a Times interview. Weisenfeld’s viewpoint regarding the sub-human nature of Palestinians is hardly unique within the Jewish community, with Marty Peretz saying as much. Former NY mayor Ed Koch, himself a supporter of the Israeli right, sees Wiesenfeld as “obsessed” with Israel:
He’s obsessed. He’s obsessed with the issue of Israel. … I’m a very big supporter of the State of Israel, but I understand that there is dissent on a whole host of issues. It isn’t evil to be supportive of the Palestinian cause…. He’s a nice guy, but he’s obsessed.
The reality is that many of these individuals inhabit academia, and are ready to surreptitiously attack those with dissenting views regarding Israel, and in the case of non-Jews, usually behind closed doors. This behavior is not relegated to academia either. Many other non-Jews who have criticized Jewish policy have lost their jobs in the media or their positions in think tanks. Charles Freeman, resigned as head of the National Intelligence Council after the fallout from complaining about being “under constant attack by unscrupulous people with a passionate attachment to the views of a political faction in a foreign country.”
Perhaps the greatest sin on Wiesenfeld’s part was to publicly attack Kushner when there are other channels available that would not draw so much media attention. According to the Times, Wiesenfeld told his fellow trustees during the approval process for Kushner’s degree:
I think it’s up to all of us to look at fairness and consider these things. … Especially when the State of Israel, which is our sole democratic ally in the area, sits in the neighborhood which is almost universally dominated by administrations which are almost universally misogynist, antigay, anti-Christian.
It not really worth addressing Wiesenfeld’s points regarding Israel, as there is much evidence of Israeli policies of misogyny and anti-Christian behavior. What really matters is whether Wiesenfeld’s behavior is prevalent in academia and other important fields in regards to non-Jews, and are non-Jews being muzzled in ways that do not get coverage in the New York Times? The evidence would suggest that this is the case.
The Times editorial board has responded to this incident with an op-ed asking Wiesenfeld to step down. Interestingly enough, the Times indicated that they did not agree with Kushner regarding his views on Israel, but never explicitly indicate which views it disagrees with. It would be interesting for some clarification on that issue. Furthermore, other instances of non-Jews being barred from important positions, such as in the case mentioned above regarding Charles Freeman, do not so much as warrant a peep from the Times’ editorial board.
The real point of contention is Kushner’s belief that Israel was founded on a policy of ethnic cleansing. The Times writes:
[Kushner] has criticized policies and actions by Israel in the past, and said that he believed — based on research by Israeli historians — that the forcible removal of Palestinians from their homes as part of the creation of Israel was ethnic cleansing. But he added that he was a strong supporter of Israel’s right to exist, that he had never supported a boycott of the country, and that his views were shared by many Jews and supporters of Israel.
Of course, how Jews treat the ethno-state of Israel often creates some cognitive dissonance within the Jewish community’s pro-immigration, pro-multiculturalism agenda in the United States. What is becoming increasingly apparent is that when it comes to Jews criticizing Israel, there are many Jews who feel that there should be no censorship when those dissenting views have no real effect on American policy towards Israel. In other words, given the lock that AIPAC has on actual policy, dissent within boundaries can be seen as a positive because it gives the appearance of a democratic debate rather than an authoritarian squelching of rational debate. Indeed, dissent within the Jewish community is often characterized as faux-dissent by organizations such as the Council on the National Interest. For example, the CNI characterizes groups like J-Street as controlled dissent. (See also “Jewish Liberals and Israel: Managing the Enemy”.)
This episode with Kushner can be considered as bad PR for the pro-Israeli crowd because it conflicts with a Jewish strategy that allows for some controlled dissent on the Israel issue. After all, some dissent is good, as it dispels any notion of a unified “conspiracy” within the Jewish community to promote Israel. The Jews who disagree with current Israeli policy sit on ineffectual boards (Kushner sits on board of the left-leaning Jewish Voice for Peace) and promote ineffectual ideas while the real money is directed towards a U.S. government that votes in unison regarding issues important to Israel.
In essence, Kushner and his ilk are not a threat; U.S. policy demonstrates this in glaring detail. Let the Jewish academics critical of Israel have their honorary degrees and their accolades because their criticism does not matter. The voting record of members of the House and the Senate and the conduct of US foreign policy by the Executive Branch are what really count.
In reality, Jewish interests could not be better positioned. There can be an illusion of public debate and a sense that Jews care about the plight of Palestinians, while everything that truly matters regarding America’s foreign policy continues its unabashed promotion of the Israeli agenda. Universities are full of Jewish academics who make tepid, ineffectual criticisms of Israel and then spend the great bulk of their time and energy making alliances with non-White ethnic groups within the university and outside it. Academics, artists, and musicians can bemoan Israeli apartheid all they want, but in the end, America is firmly in the grasp of the Israeli lobby. Jews who support Israel know this. As a result, Wiesenfeld crossed the line in denying a fellow Jew an accolade by attacking a fellow Jew publicly when that accolade means nothing in terms of hurting Israeli interests.
John Schretenthaler is a member of American Third Position and an advocate for White interests.
Facing the Future as a Minority
Was the Immigration Act of 1924 Illiberal?
This is indeed yet another example of what will be increasingly, publicly witnessed by outsiders–glimpses into the obscene.
It is the end game.
We are poised upon a razor-edge precipice, and cannot remain atop, for we are grossly unbalanced.
Society will tumble and plummet from this lofty height–which is really a lower level of hell.
Whether into increasing, overt bondage, misery and death; or else soul-enlivening awareness, freedom, and empowerment.
It will happen. We are all of us, in the relative calm within the eye of a world-shaking storm.
It would be one thing if they were just supporting Israel, but as this passage points out, they are doing it at the same time as they take a wrecking ball to the our country’s cultural, economic, and political institutions in waging war against the host population.
This is exactly how “controled opposition” works: let a (weak) voice of opposition be heard,but let it lead to nothing real.In this case Weisenfeld didn’t play according to the rules of the Jewish Handbook of Controled Opposition and took his task too seriously,with the opposite of the desired effect.Yes,even Jews can make mistakes.
Controled opposition is quite common in Jewish politics.According to ex-Israeli Gilad Atzmon all pro-Palestinian groups in England have been infiltrated by Jews in order to control them.J-street is financed by Jewish billionaire Georg Soros and is probably also controled opposition,at least it is totally uneffective.It is even suggested that the Orthodox Jewish NATUREI KARTA who profess to be against the existence of Israel on religious grounds are in fact controled opposition.Deception is a way of life for these people.
You may be right about ‘infiltration’ but that shouldn’t discourage anyone from putting their point of view across publicly. There is a difference between infiltration and control and the formal groups are simply means of mobilising the real motive force that is wider opinion.
Having been a member of an allegedly infiltrated group that nonetheless attained its objectives that’s my view at any rate.
Or to put it another way, maybe Altzmon’s spreading the belief that infiltration has taken place is itself part of a conspiracy! There’s no end to speculation, so if you believe something, you might as well just go for it!
I do believe that the idea of the dissenting Jew is a put-on. Like the car salesman who “went to bat for you” with his manager.” Sorry, but this is the best we can do for you.” Maybe,this is also a way to gain admittance into various organizations. The illusion of meaningful debate is a healthy thing for their image. I have noticed that the “dissent” is always the loudest when the point is moot. I don’t think I’m imagining this. So yes, I agree with this article. Just more of the old smoke & mirrors.
No doubt the Jewish community had a heart attack when they saw Kushner being attacked by a fellow Jew. Kushner’s plays are filled with the kind of multiculturalist propaganda intrinsic to Jewish work, and if a self-described supporter of Israel is attacked for a few dissenting viewpoints on the issue, the Jewish community freaks out. Kushner is far too important to the intellectual Jews to let him be attacked so openly. Furthermore, Kushner basically believes that Israel was founded on a policy of ethnic cleansing, but so what? He still supports Israel. It’s the equivalent of saying, hey, I know the US was founded on ethnic cleansing, but we’re all still here, so what’s the big deal?
How often do we watch a Jewish republican and a Jewish democrat represent the acceptable sides of debate on PBS or Cspan? My new favorite is an Argentinian Jew explaining our boarder issues on Fronteras . They are the only ‘us’ that counts.
On my blog I call this ‘the Judaic two-step’. The Jew always wins, because he heads up both sides, thus controlling ‘acceptable’ positions. As you say, it’s most noticeable on the talk shows. Tonight we debate both sides: Settlements, temporary slowdown or full speed ahead? Gay Marriage: compulsory or by choice? And how much shouldn’t the budget be cut?
Our poster could lend White Thought some useful polish if he’d just take the care to spell his subject’s NAME correctly.
His OWN name is an orthographical challenge itself.
The Jews who dare to criticize Israel, are called ‘Self-Hating Israel-Threatening (S.H.I.T). However, they’re still considered better human-beings by the Zionazis (both Jews and Christians) than a Muslim who dare to criticize Israel. One of such ‘Muslim Martin Luther’ is Swiss-born Professor Tariq Ramadan. Until 2004, he used to rub shoulders with Bernard Lewis, Daniel Pipes, Bernard-Henry Levy and Bernard Kouchner – but then he made a political wrong statement. He questioned his Jewish intellectual friends about their double standards when it comes to Israel-Palestine conflict…….. and then the Hell got loose….
http://rehmat1.wordpress.com/2009/08/02/the-muslim-martin-luther/
Thanks for this article .Unless these things are brought to the free presses attention , they become another shadow our people attack or support unknowingly.
It seems from my general look at the USA Presidential system that the same thing is going on . To candidates with phoney policies jostle for the top actors award. When I look back it would seem that the last independent President was G H Bush .He had enough connections, system savey and a few of the last wasp statesmen in his administration.
The point I’m making in regard to this article is that the Zionist have completed their takeover and by destroying the demographic unity of the country , its all theater from now on. The controlled bogy man , the phoney panic , the climate challenge , etc etc all designed to create artificial opposition (with sincere players) for the phoney debate to proceed. For appearance of democracy for the string pullers to hide behind .Of course once people stop believing they won’t care and then its a free for all. The academics have pretty much surrendered , shown by their capitulation to the slightest ridiculous controversy , and since they supply the brain machinery the rest can’t be to far away.
Your analysis sounds like our adversaries are engaging in a massive campaign of confusion, obfuscation, and terror to keep us confused, off balance, and demoralized. I agree completely.
What to do? One thing we can do is to clean our minds of all the mental themes and vocabulary they have stuffed us with. And the best way to do that is to always ask, “Is this good for the white peoples?”
Our name, label, definition, and description needs to be fiercely guarded. All else will follow from that, including liberation of a core of our own peoples who will know what to do.
“Let the Jewish academics critical of Israel have their honorary degrees and their accolades because their criticism does not matter. The voting record of members of the House and the Senate and the conduct of US foreign policy by the Executive Branch are what really count.”
On my blog this weekend I made a similar point regarding so-called “Jewish humor” [a myth, as Israel Shahak points out] which is actually a method of White culture destruction. And it always gets put away when issues important to Jews come up.
In my example, Ben Shapiro has a new book, Primetime Propaganda, which is actually a pretty interesting look at the Liberal Agenda. He’s able to recognize that shows like Seinfeld or Friends have to be actually funny to get the point across, unlike humorless “conservatives” like Medved or Bennett whining about “filth” on TV.
But then, in the middle of a chapter on the Simpsons, someone brings up Rachel Corrie, and the mask slips:
“Rachel Corrie, the radical proterrorist Palestinian sympathizer killed by standing in front of a bulldozer in the Gaza Strip trying to defend a terrorist invested area.”
As George Costanza would say, “Funny guy!”
“Rachel Corrie, the radical proterrorist Palestinian sympathizer killed by standing in front of a bulldozer in the Gaza Strip trying to defend a terrorist invested area.”
attributed to Ben Shapiro by James O’Meara
Did he REALLY say this? …about Rachael Corrie, the young, idealistic American University student with her whole life ahead of her who was crushed to a slow death under the treads of a huge Caterpillar bulldozer by an Israeli Army MURDERER who deliberately piled dirt on her feet so that she couldn’t move before looking her in the eye and then driving slowly over top of her.
NOT ONLY THAT!
Then he backed up over her again…with her friends screaming at the him the whole time…
She was crushed inches thick and was still alive. Can you believe that?!? She was STILL LIVING! Every bone in her body broken. Every organ destroyed.
Her spirit lived in her broken body for 11 more hours. My gawd – the pain!
I wonder who amongst those reading these words would have the COURAGE to fight for life the way Rachael Corrie did for ELEVEN HOURS in the face of those odds.
If he indeed did speak these words, Ben Shapiro is nothing more than a psychotic, lying, murder-worshipping monster – a waste of the food that sustains him.
There otta be a law….
“‘Is this good for the white peoples?’
Our name, label, definition, and description needs to be fiercely guarded. All else will follow from that, including liberation of a core of our own peoples who will know what to do.”
Sigh. Lower case anything, as in “white”, is hardly a name, a label, a definition, or a meaningful description. Jews are white. They are a brand name. You are simply “white”. You’re not a brand name. Germans were white. They were a brand name. Aryan is a brand name. European is a brand name.
How many centuries until you numbskulls get this?
A Jew next to a white is like Heineken next to those blue and white generic cans of “beer”. This is one of the existential problems with your bid for survival. You only call yourselves some lower case color, which includes literally tens of millions of the most wretched scum the planet’s seen. Or, when you do put an identifying badge name into a proper noun, it’s “Gentile”, the term given for you by people who loathe you.
That “liberation” of the core of your people actually implies speciation, which is what your enemies have done, and what you have not. The core of “whites” who break away won’t call themselves white people.
Alright,neither “white” nor “gentile”,but then what?My proposal is to call all peoples of Europe simply Europeans,and all peoples of European descent in those parts of the world where they settled as majorities with the name of their nationalities prefixed with Euro-.Thus: Euro-Americans,Euro-Canadians, Euro-Argentinians,Euro-Uruguaians(these two groups are often forgotten), Euro-Australians,Euro New Zealanders,Euro-Africans (South African “whites”) and even Euro-Siberians(Russians in Siberia).All peoples of European descent collectively could be called “Eury”.a term coined analogous to Jewry,which I once heard on the program Voice of Reason of Jamie Kelso and I find highly original.What do you think?
Talking about Ed Koch and Jewish daily Forward (I was banned there after posting for one week).
In an interview with Jewish magazine Tablet, Ed Koch, showed his Jewish self-denial by saying “Afghanistan is not a country” and “Pakistan is not a friend anymore. These are not countries you can depend upon. We shouldn’t have people there, and we shouldn’t give them the billions that we’re giving. With respect to that area, India is our true ally, not Pakistan”. Ed Koch believe Israel is the only TRUE friend of American.
http://rehmat1.wordpress.com/2011/03/08/ed-koch-afghanistan-is-not-a-country/
To the point. A+++
The system has become so complex and the presence of jews in all niches of social power and prominence, that, effectively, as the author point out, the Jews are now face with the conflicting outcome of satisfying their own in situation of diverging interests among the group.
The manner in which they set these N-person, Non-zero sum, N-games where payouts change as the game evolve always to the benefit of the one in power can only hit a wall eventually; are we about to hit the wall?
MacDonald often sounds the alert of his fear that we may be heading towards violent outcomes if we do not find a way to satisfy Whiteness and have all players play the same game with the same rules.
He also ponders on what shape can take a new resolution.
In this fashion, it reminds me of the end of “A Medieval Romance” by Mark Twain. I’ll put the conclusion here, but encourage you to read it at: http://www.readbookonline.net/readOnLine/1537/
The last paragraphs go as follows:
________________
A solemn hush fell upon the great court–a silence so profound that men could hear their own hearts beat. Then the princess slowly turned, with eyes gleaming with hate, and pointing her finger straight at Conrad, said:
“Thou art the man!”
An appalling conviction of his helpless, hopeless peril struck a chill to Conrad’s heart like the chill of death itself. What power on earth could save him! To disprove the charge, he must reveal that he was a woman; and for an uncrowned woman to sit in the ducal chair was death! At one and the same moment, he and his grim old father swooned and fell to, the ground.
[The remainder of this thrilling and eventful story will NOT be found in this or any other publication, either now or at any future time.]
The truth is, I have got my hero (or heroine) into such a particularly close place, that I do not see how I am ever going to get him (or her) out of it again–and therefore I will wash my hands of the whole business, and leave that person to get out the best way that offers–or else stay there. I thought it was going to be easy enough to straighten out that little difficulty, but it looks different now.
I hope that “we”, on the other hand, find a solution to our ills, peacefully; and that leadership will take a step out of game theoretic propositions, before we are in a predicament with no solution but confrontation, in order to get a general view of the landscape that has been created through the past 100 years of bias constructions.
And further more, subgroups getting the goodies like homosexuals and feminists, is only a transitory situation, temporary associates. Yet, these groups are now dictating structural transformations which will be disastrous for the majority in the long term. We cannot all work together if the rules of the game are not the same for all participants.
Encouraging a multi moral and ehtical space can only be a loosing solution if our goal is to form somewhat of an unified entity.
FR , thats not a bad idea . Maybe the Europeans will work out their own dimension as obviously to be African and Finnish is ridiculous so white Finns will know who they are talking about. Obviously big brother will continue on with irrelevant definitions as “comrade” in the USSR was used but as the western system fractures people will just gravitate to their natural associations . Eventually , unfortunately Jews will create a race police stacked with minorities as was done in the USSR .ADL is the precursor to this and will probably be its bureaucratic controller which is backed by the race state of Israel where its members can move and think freely and generate programs and data bases without Gentile interference.
For the other European settled countries , you only have to say hey , do any Euro’s want to come home for a beer etc . They get the point.
People continue to use the word ‘white’ but I think this is poor branding and confused labeling. Its almost generic and by that I mean it doesn’t imply the great feats that our people have accomplished through out history .
It is interesting that the Zionist media and government doesn’t use the term European American and I would say its deliberately done to stop the Majority from realizing they are being disposed ! The system will start to use this category when we have fallen into powerless minority and the truth is in our faces . Then Zionist will start to us the term in derision to show what stupid people we are to have let their country be taken over without a fight. And any who disagree will be called racist anti-sem’s.
So if I may be so bold as to say that White Americans should start using this term “European American” deliberately now to awaken our people to this situation! And it can’t be classified as racist as every body else has their category. In fact if you think about it , our enemies are using the term ‘white’ on forms etc so as to include lots of none-Europeans deliberately and thereby once again deliberately sowing confusion and preventing the solidarity of European Americans.
The term “white” can indeed be misused so as to include Jews,Arabs,Turks, Iranians etc.(some of these are indeed phenotypically “white” but most are “mixed”),or even Mestizos (when they commit crimes they are suddenly classified as “white” in the statistics).Even worse is the term “Caucasian” because in science this term is also used to include ALL darkskinned peoples of the Indian subcontinent.Some White Nationalists use the term “Aryan”,but except that its use in this way is unscientific (it is a linguistic term denoting speakers of Indo-Iranian languages,irrespective of race, and that would include hundreds of millions of darkskinned Indians),in the public mind its use is immediately associated with Naziism and therefore should be avoided.A term referring to Europe avoids all that.The term European Americans is both historically and “politically” correct because similar terms for Blacks and Asians are now officially accepted i.e.;African Americans and Asian Americans.The term is however by its length a little bit too unwieldy, therefore I propose Euro-American.That has the advantage not only that it is shorter but also that in daily use it can be abbreviated to a handy “Euro”.
For all “Euro’s” collectively I propose the term “Eury”(analogous to “Jewry”).
I like ” Euro “
OK it settled ! I am thinking though when the term is used amongst our enemies , it might be better to stick with the longer term as they are sure to attack it and the first reaction we don’t want is : please explain! Our peoples enemies are going to react with extreme hostility to this term for the usual reason : Anything that unifies and strengthens the host and its ability to reject Jewish control will be reviled .For the younger readers of this sight , who might be at University , just test the enemy for this , you will see immediate hostility .But just play dumb but proud when under attack . Make them feel like its personal. Just as they make us feel with the Hollostuff , but forget the USSR mass-murders.
I think there is a reason that this article has attracted so few comments: its exposition is so clear and its analysis so pellucid that Mr. Schretenthaler has left us, his readers, with very little to add—except, of course, thank you.
When it comes to blaming Jews for being ‘anti-Semite’ – only a few can beat the Israeli-Russian Jewish writer Israel Shamir.
http://rehmat1.wordpress.com/2011/05/19/israel-shamir-lost-in-translation/
Euro-American, Eury, Euros sound good to me. They’re catchy and instantly recognizable like a good brand name. Inclusive of and restricted to white traditionally-Christian Europeans wherever we now live. (no Romas, no jews, no turks, no arabs, no latinos no matter how white they appear on the surface)
Aren’t you the one that referred to the 9-11 families as “sellouts”?
Yes and so what?
Doesn’t that strike you as a wee bit insane? Most families, American and otherwise, would not sellout their children and siblings just for some money. Getting the families of hundreds 9-11 victims to “sellout” is an absolutely impossible task and it is unsupported by any evidence.
Why would just make outrageous accusations like that? What bothers me is that none of the other Truthers ever step forward to say “oh we don’t believe anything as crazy and cruel as that”.
They just remain silent.
“Most families, American and otherwise, would not sellout their children and siblings just for some money.”
The majority of 911 families did exactly that. They won the 911 insta-millionaires lottery. A jew (I don’t remember his name but he is the same one put in charge of gulf payouts) was put in charge of doling out settlements worth millions. A condition of which the 911 families agreed not to pursue matters in court where the official version could be challenged through the process of discovery.
The majority of families not only sold out their dead loved ones but the rest of Americans’ right to know. If a majority or even a larger minority of families hadn’t settled the handfull of families who held out wouldn’t have been so easy to dismiss.
This is simply not psychologically possible. Only a small percentage of the population would sociopathic enough to sell the memory of their children, wives, husbands, parents, brothers and sisters. With the exception of psychopaths, no one would consider being paid off to be quiet and lie about the death of their family member – they would not consider it “winning the lottery”.
Do you actually believe that thousands of people, the vast majority, just thought “wow, I won the lottery!”?
And I hope everyone notes, that not one single Truther comes out to disagree with this argument. Not one so far. Does this not tell us something about the nature of Truthers?
[ This is simply not psychologically possible. Only a small percentage of the population would sociopathic enough to sell the memory of their children, wives, husbands, parents, brothers and sisters. With the exception of psychopaths, no one would consider being paid off to be quiet and lie about the death of their family member – they would not consider it “winning the lottery”. ]
Ok think about it …
You are absolutely in a total state of shock about having lost a family member , and then you are faced with the pressure of conforming to the overwhelming pressure and ” patriotic duty ” there by to bring about some peace to your life to mourn .
Or you could buck the system and invite a circus like atmosphere with tin foil hat cat calls from family and the society around you . The disrespect thrown on your loved one and all of this in a most vulnerable time of grieving and confusion .
Not to mention that you may not have adequate funds for a proper funeral .
Which would you choose ?
This cannot be meant as a serious post? You think thousands of people knowingly lied about the deaths of their family members in order to get the funeral paid for – and some vacation money? Almost all of them? If they cared so little about their dead family members, then they could let the county put them in a pine box.
Do you people have families? Have you ever loved anyone? Jesus Christ. Sell ‘em out for a nice coffin and a trip to Vegas? That is what “Remain” is claiming. Oh but I’m sorry, it wasn’t just money? These thousands of family members had doubts but caved because of the intense social pressure that only a few people like yourself are able to withstand. Uh huh, gotcha.
Truthers are not rational. And not one, not ONE will step forward to say this idea that thousands of family members knowingly sold out their families for some silver is crazy. This is all that needs to be said about the moral status of Truthers.
Truthers make me doubt my interest in this site in the first place. It makes me wonder if this schizoid thinking is also at work with regard to the “Jewish Question”. I know in some quarters it is, but I don’t think it is in most.
[ Do you actually believe that thousands of people, the vast majority, just thought “wow, I won the lottery!”? ]
No
[ And I hope everyone notes, that not one single Truther comes out to disagree with this argument. Not one so far. ]
I hope everyone notes that I just blew large holes in your implication . This added to the crater like holes of the official 911 conspiracy theory pretty much blows your theory apart .
It’s not about proving what specifically happened in every detail , because we don’t know . It’s about the impossibility of the official version and the most likely suspicions . And my gawd are there suspicions .
We will not know with out a proper inquiry .
Think of it like a kangaroo court case that has made a very serious unjust conviction that sent many innocents to the death penalty .
Ok I added some more illustration of the circumstance ,
Think about it …
You are absolutely in a total state of shock about having lost a family member in the surreal nightmare we all saw being 911. Right away you are contacted and surrounded by government officials . You are fully ” debriefed” and faced with the pressure of conforming to the overwhelming pressure and ” patriotic duty ” there by to bring about some peace to your life to mourn .
Or you could buck the system and invite a circus like atmosphere with tin foil hat cat calls from possibly family and certainly from officials and the society around you . The disrespect thrown on your loved one’s memory and all of this in a most vulnerable time of pain and grieving and total confusion .
Not to mention that you may not have adequate funds for a proper funeral .
Which would you choose ?
Again with the funeral costs? Is this satire? You are just pulling random thoughts from the air. They weren’t all dirt poor you know. Most were middle class or above and they had adequate funds for a whiz bang funeral. Many of them collected life insurance, in addition.
And if there was some tiny percentage that were so poor that they couldn’t pay for a funeral, no one in America was going to let a 9-11 victim be thrown away in a hefty bag, they could have raised the money easily – most Americans have a decent heart (unlike Truthers).
And in what sense where they pressured into performing their “patriotic duty”? That presumes they thought something was wrong but stuffed that knowledge down. Remember, many Truthers claim that family members lied about phone calls and other matters. Good Lord.
You act like they knew something was up, but by golly, we gotta bury Agnes and I’d like a trip to Vegas and gosh, I don’t want to start trouble. This is the start of the art of Truther thinking.
And I have family members, if I thought they had been murdered I would not for a moment hesitate to speak out – just like the Tillman family did when they found out their son had been killed by friendly fire. People are not the inhuman monsters you assume – only Truthers are.
And still not one denies any shred of this lunacy
[ This cannot be meant as a serious post? You think thousands of people knowingly lied about the deaths of their family members in order to get the funeral paid for – and some vacation money? Almost all of them? If they cared so little about their dead family members, then they could let the county put them in a pine box. ]
No , thye did not know what happened . They were in shock and not in any position to take on system had they been some how inclined to .
There primary focus was on their loss .
Well at least you aren’t claiming all the 9-11 families are a bunch of liars. You do realize that MANY on the Truther side are claiming just that, including “remain”? You cannot except to be taken seriously by the general public when people say things like that.
I’ll give you some perspective …
I had a family member who was shot and killed in college and it was attributed to a college prank gone wrong .
Later on there has been great suspicion that it was not a prank but foul play .
But , immediate family members find it too difficult to open up that wound and so they are more concerned with the memory and to let it go in peace . They feel there is no sense in digging up the past because the details are sketchy and it won’t change their loss and it is far too painful . They say RIP .
Anyway JS
I am convinced you have not looked at both sides of the debate impartially . You could not have because it is just too suspect .
But , if I am wrong and you have , and you stand by your conviction , then I say so what . I ma certain that you are wrong but that is not uncommon and it is not a big deal . You are only one of many .
Take a good look at these 9-11 sites sometime when you are in an especially sober state of mind – approach them with the same cynicism you do the “official story”. After all, people do sell snake oil, and they always tell you that you can’t trust “the official medical community”. Every quack tells you he has a the real secret truth and don’t you dare go to a real doctor.
And take a look at sites that argue the other side. I don’t think you’ll be so impressed with the 9-11 sites at that point.
But please realize that having questions about 9-11 is one thing, but going around implying that 9-11 families are a bunch of Judas’s that sold their families out for silver (as ‘remain’ and others do) is poison. I don’t care about 9-11 Truthers losing credibility, but I do care when they associate themselves with White websites like this one.
We don’t need people having the mistaken idea that White Advocates defecate on 9-11 surviving family members. Not helpful.
[ Americans have a decent heart (unlike Truthers). ]
See now I would consider a person heartless that would allow for such a mega travesty of justice to go on unquestioned .
I did not say the need for funeral cost was that significant . It is more of factor if it was a loss of income from a sole provider spouse or partial provider , but that is only one very small factor of the thousands .
I would say the fact that the WTC was a money pit loser that was recently leased and insured to the hilt by a member of the self chosen tribe just prior to the box cutter carrying Arabs knocking them down was more of a question mark raising factor . And the fact that this chosen one said that building 7 was “pulled ” a demolition term , in a PBS tv interview that is still on youtube I believe , is more questionable still . Building 7 was the building that was not hit by arabs , I think the official version is that it more or less just fell down by itself ? Or was it the flying dust particles ? what ever .
I don’t care what the current version of the 9-11 Truth story is, none of that concerns me – it changes all the time. Every time I try and have a rational conversation with Truthers it falls apart.
You guys want to come and raise technical issues to non-experts. Isn’t that usually a bad sign? Take your case to real engineers and physicists. I know 3 civil engineers that have told me they no problem with the main thrust of how 9-11 happened. But when I tell a Truther that, he tells me these guys are really government spies … or they all fear going public … or they don’t have the courage to think the truth … I mean it’s always the same crap.
Anyway, I just don’t want people to think White Advocates sit around sneering at 9-11 family members. I see post after post that does this, and I see no Truther raise any objections. Then you claim it’s your big heart that makes you question 9-11. Okay fine whatever. But these Truthers are just hijacking White Advoacy boards to promote their pet theories – most could care less about Whites.
[ Well at least you aren’t claiming all the 9-11 families are a bunch of liars. You do realize that MANY on the Truther side are claiming just that, including “remain”? You cannot except to be taken seriously by the general public when people say things like that. ]
I am not that familiar with the family member angle . I do not know the need for families to be questioned as to their integrity .
I do know that cancelled flights do not appear on the internet when they are cancelled and that these 911 flights were cancelled flights and so they did not appear on the internet until the goof was discovered much later and then they suddenly appeared .
People are not infallable . Much can go wrong like the need to bring buildng 7 down because something went wrong with third planes arrival on the scene . It was a no show . What severe goof up that one was ! You’re think the game was up ,
But apparently not .
I am not that familiar with the family member angle . I do not know the need for families to be questioned as to their integrity .
Well you just heard “remain” say it several times. But you guys never subject your theories to the slightest critical thinking. If someone is a Truther they can say the most hateful thing and it is always given a pass … gotta save all your fire for those cowardly fools that accept the “offical story” (those suckers).
It is the exact same reasoning that quack doctors use by the way.
[ Take a good look at these 9-11 sites sometime when you are in an especially sober state of mind – approach them with the same cynicism you do the “official story”. After all, people do sell snake oil, and they always tell you that you can’t trust “the official medical community”. Every quack tells you he has a the real secret truth and don’t you dare go to a real doctor. ]
I have made many parts for commercial aircraft . I worked for a major air craft maker . I know metals . I know steel . I know aluminum .
An aircraft is built for strength but being light weight is everything . An aircraft is not that much unlike a big beer can with wings . Think of a toy glider balsa wood plane . A real aricraft is very similar only on a much larger scale .
A building is infinitely heavier and stronger . I mean by a factor of thousands . If an aircraft hits a concrete steel re-enforced building then it crumples up like a beer can . It does not pierce . It crumples and expodes with superficial burns and damage .
I know this because I have regularly impact mold aluminum against steel and it melts and molds under impact , for race horse shoes as one example . Aluminum can not touch steel . I use steel to cut and form aluminum all of the time .
Concrete only makes it more so .
I do not need anything other than my own first hand experience to know that there is something very wrong with the official version .
There is many many more suspicious factors , but they are not even needed to raise serious doubts . At some point these doubts become overwhelming . That point has been well passed and then some .
A building is a lot like a tree . Extremely heavy and strong in the trunk but much less strong and lighter as you go higher .
To think that you could bring not one but two of the the largest buildings in the world perfectly in to their own foot prints at free fall speed by hitting them with aluminum planes near the top of the building is lunacy and nothing less . ( and then a third just falling by itself ? )
Think of a tree.
By the way the engines might probably pierce the buildings , that would be two holes , not a road runner cartoon -esque imprint hole of a jet aircraft .
Then take your arguments to experts in the field. What is the value of a bunch of amateurs swapping tall tales? Truthers need to focus on engineers, physicists, construction experts, metallurgists, etc.
Like I said, I know several engineers and none of them give any credence to 9-11 stories. Oh I know, they are all scared to death to tell the truth (yawn). Or they are Lizard People. Well they pick up the tab sometimes so they are decent lizards I guess.
What do I know about the deep physics of explosions and collapses and burning steel and all the rest of it? What do most of us really know? Any technical story about the science of buildings that relies on convincing amateurs is fishy. It’s like quack doctors that never publish in any real medical publications but focus on convincing clueless fish to buy their products.
[ Truther they can say the most hateful thing and it is always given a pass … gotta save all your fire for those cowardly fools that accept the “offical story” (those suckers). ]
I don’t know why you guys buy the official line . I just think you have not given it a fair hearing .
I don’t think it should be so nasty and personal . I do know that it gets very annoying and so people lash out . I think some people are convinced that you guys are trying to be difficult and narrow minded and stubborn and possibly not on the up and up .
I really think it is a case of you needing/wanting to believe the main stream concept of 911 .
[ Then you claim it’s your big heart that makes you question 9-11. Okay fine whatever. But these Truthers are just hijacking White Advoacy boards to promote their pet theories – most could care less about Whites. ]
The link between 911 and white advocacy is a direct one .
How could you have you missed that ?
I hope I don’t have to explain about who is behind multi-cult globalism , do I ?
Yeah that is another thing that bothers me … this all has that magic bullet feel to it. We’ll show the world that 9-11 was pulled off by a cabal of Jewish agents working with their American lickspittles (I notice the phrase lickspittle is popular among conspiracy theorists). Then, in one fell swoop, we will expose the Grand Conspiracy and awaken all Whites to the Jewish threat and the betrayal by our elites and the massive corruption in our government.
Makes a nice story, a little too nice if you ask me. It’s like swinging for the fences and failing to ever get on first base.
[ We’ll show the world that 9-11 was pulled off by a cabal of Jewish agents working with their American lickspittles (I notice the phrase lickspittle is popular among conspiracy theorists). Then, in one fell swoop, we will expose the Grand Conspiracy and awaken all Whites to the Jewish threat and the betrayal by our elites and the massive corruption in our government. ]
No , not necessarily . Although you would be surprised of how many are not that far off .
It is just raise questions about the establishment .
You do know that people are questioning much . There is a growing movement and it is the way of the future with skepticism about the fed , Iraq , iran , the middle east , aipac , and 911 and AGW and on and on .
It’s good to get people to question things because we are not wanting the status quo . The status quo is certain doom for white advocacy . Don’t support that status quo if you care . Search for truth even if it is very unpopular .
I knew Ben Shapiro when he was at UCLA. He got totally offended when he discovered that the White hating liberals hated Israel as well as the United States and Europe.
So he became a “conservative”. He hooked up with former soviet union agent and now Israel agent David Horowitz of frontpagemagazine.com formerly of Ramparts magazine and the black panther political and criminal organization.
Ben is as much an enemy of the sub human goyim Whites as Sharpton or Rev Wright. He is a junior David Horowitz and an Israeli agent hoping to infiltrate and control the Republican party as the Jews infiltrated and now control the Democrats.
I don’t much believe the conspiracy theories about 9/11 except for one thing. Willie Brown, then Mayor of San Francisco was due to fly out of San Francisco the morning of 9/11.
The day before both he personally and his security detail got a call warning him not to fly the next day, 9/11. Brown cancelled his trip and remained in San Francisco on 9/11.
Brown is not a national figure. He was a local Mayor. I believe him.
I understand that other prominent people were also warned away from flying that day.