Review of Thomas Martin’s “The Victory of Humanism”

The Victory of Humanism: The Psychology of Humanist Art, Modernism, and “Race”
Thomas Martin
Palm Coast, FL: Backintyme, 2011; 177 pages

There can be little doubt that in historical perspective, perhaps the most important upheaval in Western culture has been the decline of aristocratic culture. This is apparent, for example, in two recent books that have influenced my thinking, Ricardo Duchesne’s The Uniqueness of Western Civilization and Andrew Fraser’s The WASP Question (my review will appear in the first issue (June) of Radix, a new magazine edited by Alex Kurtagic and Richard Spencer). For Duchesne, aristocratic individualism is the key to understanding the uniqueness and creativity of the West. Fraser laments the decline of Indo-European aristocratic culture, beginning with the Puritan revolution of the 17th century and carried to its logical conclusion in America with the defeat of the South in the Civil War.

Thomas Martin’s The Victory of Humanism focuses on the decline of aristocratic culture in Western art. Following the “perfection of antiquity,” the breakthrough occurred in the Renaissance with the work of Leonardo Da Vinci, Raphael, and Michalangelo.

A critical observation by Vasari is that those artists achieved perfection by only portraying the beautiful. They did this by using the most beautiful examples of the human body or nature. In this way, they achieved the idealization or perfection of both body and nature.  In fact, Vasari goes so far as to say that Michelangelo was so wedded to the idea of perfection that he had a policy of never doing a portrait of a living person.This would have been descending away form the ideal in the “mind of God” or the human mind, and losing himself in the particular of the empirical.

Martin correctly points out that this sense of ideal human form is an innate part of human psychology. Evolutionary psychologists have shown that the faces that humans find attractive are generalized. That is, faces that are produced by averaging dozens of real photos are judged attractive. Martin expands on this by suggesting that “there is a certain nobility in the generalized face, which helps create the sense that it is ideal. Seeing the face that is in the mind takes the viewer above or out of this world and into the mind, the most powerful and noble part of our bodies.”

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Martin then describes the decline of the ideal and the rise of egalitarianism, particularlity, and vulgarity in art. This did not happen all at once. In the 17th and 18th centuries, artists “took a dim view of raw nature”; Frederick Art, a historian, notes that “in the age of the Baroque, they evidently wanted to smooth and regulate all nature and make, as it were, domestic pets of the rivers and mountains.” Not until the end of the 19th century did the crudeness of nature become an artistic ideal. Martin notes that “Nature per se was viewed as vulgar and disgusting, while refined culture was viewed as beautiful and a relief from vulgar, oppressive and confining nature.”

The culture of the anti-ideal: Lucien Freud:'s "Benefits Supervisor Sleeping"

Whereas nature was seen as confining and oppressive, in the long run “high art formalism” came to be seen as oppressive. Aesthetics was “displaced to oppose the confining upper class during the French Revolution”; already in the 19th century, “artists were beginning to find beauty and greatness themselves to be confining, and sought escape into the chaos and irregularities of nature and personal experience. This defines relativism, particularism and the decline of standards.”

Ultimately, this trend derives from egalitarian political philosophies emphasizing the natural rights of the individual and hostile to traditional social hierarchies that, as both Duchesne and Fraser note, are Indo-European in origin. Classical Western culture emphasized reason controlling emotion and political dominance by a natural aristocracy. “The ideal of modernism was that instead of reason and the upper class controlling the appetites and the lower class, respectively, the reverse should be the case.” As exemplifying this trend toward egalitarianism, Martin quotes an article by eugenicist John Glad who found that most people disagreed the idea that people with high intelligence should have more children.

These trends might be termed “egalitarian individualism,” as opposed to the aristocratic individualism described by Duchesne (see above) that has been so central to classical Western art. For Martin, modernism fundamentally reflects aspirations for “a deified and unlimited individualism.” This can be seen in everything from political thinking to advertising campaigns that appeal to people’s uniqueness and individuality—the “culture of narcissism” and the glorification of individual suffering at the hand of an oppressive social order. More and more art was designed to appeal to low and vulgar tastes, the aristocracy seen as corrupt and morally debased. “Over the last two centuries, evil was displaced from the body, from sexuality, and from the lower class, to the upper class, their art and proper morals or etiquette.” This was then extended to the bourgeois upper classes, as in the film Titanic. Whereas “classicists emphasize limits on behavior and intelligence, and the need for social control on native inclinations to evil, hostility or crime,” modernists  “experience limits as claustrophobic imposition from the group. So they rebel against anything limiting, such as conceptions of class, sex, ‘race’, and native intelligence.” [Note that the word 'race' is in quotation marks, as it is in the subtitle. This suggests that Martin does not believe in the reality of race, but Martin informs me that it was because of the publisher's insistence.]

Although ‘race’ appears in quotation marks, Martin notes at African-Americans and the non-West have benefited greatly from the general trends of modernism. Blacks now sit in judgment of White culture and are routinely deified in the media—literally, as with all those films where Morgan Freeman is portrayed as America’s “spiritual presence-in-chief)  “Modernists today become worthy when they hate their own civilization, or feel unworthy in the face of non-Westerners. To consider oneself unworthy is a sure sign of social virtue today.”

As with Andrew Fraser in The WASP Question, Martin yearns for the classical world of hierarchy and the primacy of reason “able to suppress the worst of human nature.” He realizes that this world cannot be revived, but nevertheless hopes that we could “somehow return to rejecting our animal aspect.”

There is a lot to like about this book. Martin moves adeptly (but at times incongruously) between a wide range of genres, from high art and opera plots, to Hollywood films and television. The general thrust of the book certainly fits with the decline of aristocratic culture that is so central to the modern age. On the negative side, there is no mention of ethnic competition over the construction of culture, as emphasized in discussions of Jewish influence on this site (e.g., Edmund Connelly, Lasha Darkmoon and Michael Colhaze). My view is that we must understand both the ethnic roots of the egalitarian trends of Western culture stemming ultimately from evolution as northern hunter-gatherers, but also realize that the the rise of Jews as a hostile elite has been an important aspect of the debasement of Western culture in the direction of vulgarity and hedonic individualism since at least the beginning of the 20th century. Certainly, several of the movements discussed by Martin (the 1960s counter-cultural revolution, the rise of Blacks to the status of moral paragons, and the ideology of multiculturalism and hostility toward the people and culture of the West) cannot be understood without a consideration of Jewish influence.

Martin is correct that we can’t go back to earlier Western social forms which were based on a hereditary aristocracy that achieved their position as a result of the military accomplishments of ancestors. I do think, however, that  in the early 20th century the West was headed in the direction of developing a natural aristocracy based on intelligence, moral probity, and the possibility of upward and downward social mobility.  This was the heyday of eugenics as a belief system common among Western elites, both liberals and conservatives. An important component of this worldview included an understanding of the genetic basis of intelligence and behavior (see, e.g., Lothrop Stoddard’s Revolt of the Underman, republished by Alex Kurtagic’s Wermod & Wermod).

This world was shattered; ultimately it was a victim of  the outcome of World War II, even though eugenics was not expunged from polite society until the 1960s as a result of an energetic campaign by Holocaust-haunted intellectuals bent on striking a blow against their ethnic competitors. If that vision of society had prevailed, and, correlatively,  if the West had rejected the model of multiculturalism fueled by massive non-White immigration promoted by Jewish intellectual and political activism, it is quite reasonable to suppose that it would have had a very large and positive influence on the world of art.

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126 Comments to "Review of Thomas Martin’s “The Victory of Humanism”"

  1. 90404's Gravatar 90404
    May 26, 2012 - 1:12 am | Permalink

    Re:Lucien Freud and the Tribe.
    I live in LA. There was a big show of his ‘art’. Beverly Hills and the west side had all these banners advertising the show.
    100? banners? 400? for miles, along several major roads. Remember BevHills is very Jewish.
    The tribe at work.

  2. May 21, 2012 - 2:59 am | Permalink

    @sanjay: I don’t think banning TV will help at all to lift standards, just as it will not help ban pornography to uplift infantile behaviour into mature regions of self-reflection because the underground thrives on such ‘secret rwetrival’ operations
    What is needed is for individuals to have the courage to stand firm and be resolute in maintaining standards and values that uplift – and oppose this nonsense concept ‘equality’, among other things.
    For example, I am an identical twin but my brother and I never had the same taste in women – and I don’t think I’m as ugly as he is!
    Cheers

  3. Alice Teller's Gravatar Alice Teller
    May 16, 2012 - 12:56 pm | Permalink

    @Adeimantus:
    Great idea and we need more like it.

  4. Adeimantus's Gravatar Adeimantus
    May 16, 2012 - 12:54 pm | Permalink

    @Alice Teller: What would be nice for the present would be to create a program of properly qualifying university graduates with certificates as tutors in Latin, Greek, German, mathematics, who give private in-the-home lessons so that parents could hire these teachers for, say, one hour per week — much the same way that private music lessons were so common in my youth. Each private tutor might have up to 40 students per week and charge a fee that would make this an acceptable standard of living. (Just a suggestion.)

  5. Alice Teller's Gravatar Alice Teller
    May 16, 2012 - 12:44 pm | Permalink

    @Adeimantus:
    While I entirely agree with the analysis of our educational problems I hold little hope for a solution being implemented in our time. I urge all parents who cannot home school or afford private school to make
    real efforts to supplement their kids education at home.

  6. Adeimantus's Gravatar Adeimantus
    May 16, 2012 - 12:27 pm | Permalink

    @Alice Teller: In England not so long ago, children were required to know both Latin and Classical Greek. I think that a return to these subjects will really be an excellent and essential first step to returning American schools to acceptable standards. I recommend that educators read Kopf’s book and take its message seriously. This will make our education more European again. Add higher mathematics and critical thinking to the mix, and the watered-down education of today will largely be corrected. It was watered down, after, to “help” or facilitate a program of forced integration of unequal races. Return academic standards to those of the past and people will know that forced integration has been a failure. In the future, let those students succeed who can properly demonstrate the academic skills. I think this is crucial to the survival of this nation and of the West: Honest traditional education.

  7. Alice Teller's Gravatar Alice Teller
    May 16, 2012 - 10:25 am | Permalink

    @Pierre de Craon:
    My pleasure. For all of her faults, J.K. Rowling has made both the reading books of more than 32 pages and the study of Latin cool to young boys, often leading directly into reading more worthy books. One of my proudest moments was hearing a young protege express his disdain for people who express opinions of The Lord of the Rings trilogy based on the movies rather than the books.
    I appreciate the mention of Kopff’s essays at TOQ. They must predate my subscription. I look forward to reading them.

  8. Pierre de Craon's Gravatar Pierre de Craon
    May 16, 2012 - 3:39 am | Permalink

    @Alice Teller: Thank you for the reminder about this book, which I meant to buy a decade ago. Kopff used to write for Chronicles many years ago, before he and Thomas Fleming fell out. He has also written a couple of essays for the Occidental Quarterly, including a very interesting essay review of Men among the Ruins, by Baron Julius Evola.

  9. Someday's Gravatar Someday
    May 15, 2012 - 3:56 pm | Permalink

    Re. The defeat of the South in the Civil War.
    Given a complete victory by the South, the US would have turned into a northern version of what Brazil is.

    I do think, however, that in the early 20th century the West was headed in the direction of developing a natural aristocracy based on intelligence, moral probity, and the possibility of upward and downward social mobility.

    Surely a belief in their own moral probity and superiority is the key plank of egalitarians’ ideology. They may not be certain what they claim to believe about Blacks and Jews is true. However the White egalitarians truly believe they are invincible because they have a superior morality . This idea, that morality is a super-good that will make the moral person invulnerable, is a very old one. I have read that it goes back to Socrates.

  10. Adeimantus's Gravatar Adeimantus
    May 15, 2012 - 8:32 am | Permalink

    @Franklin Ryckaert: I entirely agree.

  11. Franklin Ryckaert's Gravatar Franklin Ryckaert
    May 15, 2012 - 7:59 am | Permalink

    @Adeimantus:
    For such people their criterion has a name, it is called : Zeitgeist.

  12. Adeimantus's Gravatar Adeimantus
    May 14, 2012 - 11:33 pm | Permalink

    @Z.O.G.: Let me be more specific. In a debate with the late Christopher Hitchens, Christian theologian and apologist Professor William Lang Craig “disowns” verses from the Bible which he finds guilty of the “sin ” of “racism.” So the question is how can Mr. Craig decide which Bible passages are worthy of faith and which are worthy of contempt?

  13. Adeimantus's Gravatar Adeimantus
    May 14, 2012 - 11:09 pm | Permalink

    @Z.O.G.: Many modern Christians now claim that race does not matter, and a few may go so far as to say they do not exist. However, secular humanists are every bit as strong in promoting the same ideology. I think that it has, for the most part, entered the churches from the outside. In the not-so-distant past, many — indeed most — churches were segregated.

    Integration was promoted by a man named King, who did not sincerely believe in the supernatural claims of the Christian religion. King would not be regarded as an authentic Christian by most believers, if they would only read his doctoral thesis.

  14. Adeimantus's Gravatar Adeimantus
    May 14, 2012 - 4:15 pm | Permalink

    Science necessarily excludes the supernatural — whether or not it exists. The supernatural is outside the sphere of scientific investigation. Science can disprove specific claims religions may make about the natural world. This is valid. The fact that certain people derive great psychological strength from their religious beliefs is clear. Those beliefs “work” for those persons. I think that the concept of God is an intuition. I have not (so far) seen any religious writings that show supernatural quality. I suspect that no matter how wonderful and intricate scientific knowledge becomes as it continues to develop and expand, there will always be the great Mystery beyond (or behind?) it all.

  15. Adeimantus's Gravatar Adeimantus
    May 14, 2012 - 3:46 pm | Permalink

    @Z.O.G.: What I meant, though, was that people can be religious and against multiculturalism (Christian Identity Movement) or strongly in favor of it (modern Evangelicals). Religion can go either way. But it remains a fact that modern secular humanism is predominantly pro-egalitarian in outlook. Many of the non-religious are in love with “humanity” — in an egalitarian sense. Many Christians of the past supported segregationism. My point is that the two positions are not tied together in only one way, in an unbreakable link.

  16. Adeimantus's Gravatar Adeimantus
    May 14, 2012 - 2:33 pm | Permalink

    @Z.O.G.: Modern religion (and not only Christianity) is intensely egalitarian and definitely harms the White Race. I am not sure that this was always so among Protestant and Orthodox branches. There are a number of articles on Christianity on American Renaissance, both pro and con. The Christian Doctrine of Nations

  17. Z.O.G.'s Gravatar Z.O.G.
    May 14, 2012 - 1:54 pm | Permalink

    @Adeimantus:

    religion or lack thereof seems almost a totally separate issue from White Advocacy.

    What if the religion of most Whites says that race doesn’t exist? Is that a “separate issue”?

  18. Adeimantus's Gravatar Adeimantus
    May 14, 2012 - 7:17 am | Permalink

    England, like much of Europe, has advanced farther into Liberalism than even the U.S. John Lennon, who is a national hero among many British people, was strongly anti-nationalist and anti-religion. He was a Cultural Marxist, after all.

  19. Adeimantus's Gravatar Adeimantus
    May 14, 2012 - 6:40 am | Permalink

    I have come to dislike the use of the terms “conservative” and “liberal.” These have become meaningless at this point. New political terminology is desperately needed to avoid the random association of unrelated issues. The issues of the day have been artificially divided, not according to some philosophical principle, but set up the game so that the plutocratic powers that be cannot possibly lose.

  20. Adeimantus's Gravatar Adeimantus
    May 14, 2012 - 6:25 am | Permalink

    @Comm: He’s an atheist – and a radically liberal one.

    I have not so far seen much evidence to support that a MAJORITY of atheists and humanists are pro-White advocates. The New York Times liberals are generally atheists, are they not? Since atheists consider themselves more intelligent (and they probably are) and believe in evolution (which I also agree with), you’d think they’d be a bit less liberal in racial matters, wouldn’t you? Yet I’ve seen no evidence of this.

    The assumption that if you’re not an atheist you must also believe in the Bible as the written word of God is also too often taken for granted. One can believe in a mysterious Intelligence without accepting any holy books whatever. One does not have to worship the Bible to believe that the Universe is not an accident.

    My real point, however, is this: religion or lack thereof seems almost a totally separate issue from White Advocacy.

  21. Comm's Gravatar Comm
    May 14, 2012 - 12:30 am | Permalink

    @Mickey Meadows:

    The boy in the video has a bit of an axe to grind with Christianity:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gx3sPuEJFrE&feature=relmfu

  22. Alice Teller's Gravatar Alice Teller
    May 12, 2012 - 7:04 pm | Permalink

    @Bobby:
    The saddest thing is that they don’t even know they ought to expect more. I remember when a company cared about shareholders and stakeholders, like the community. I also think that the short term profits you mention are part of the reason so many businesses failing. They no longer make long term plans.

    The public too plays a part. If Americans refused to shop at WalMart or the dollar stores it might return some jobs to America.

  23. Bobby's Gravatar Bobby
    May 12, 2012 - 6:40 pm | Permalink

    @Alice Teller: Alice I can age myself the same way. I remember a time when companies were connected to their communities. This was a natural thing, because it’s where they became rich. The locals both worked for them and bought their produts. This was true in almost every U.S. state. What hurt the community, hurt the company and what hurt the company hurt the community, more or less. The bank president, or CEO of some other company ,for example, would give a speech at the local high-school. In these speeches was often the mention of being a good citizen, doing your duty, and other ideals, very worthwhile. Employees were often spoken of as family, whether honestly or not. Today, no pretenses about “family”, “belonging”, or other such connections are even hinted at. As Pat Buchanan has written, America is now an Empire, and empires don’t need citizens. They are globalist, and their duty is to whatever meets the quarterly goal, whether it has any thing to do with American citizens or not is entirely irrelevant. Greed is good. Have you noticed that the poorer the average American becomes, the more the Main Stream Media, sponsored by companies loaded with cash, asks Americans to “donate” to this that or the other cause, while they continue outsourcing, insourcing and doing whatever it takes to perpetuate their power. I noticed Romney, like Obama, is all for further massive immigration, and outsourcing, insourcing jobs of every conceivable kind, even hotel workers. However, Americans should still support the administration, wave flags and be good little sheep. Too bad they don’t realize the wolves are guarding their future.

  24. Alice Teller's Gravatar Alice Teller
    May 12, 2012 - 5:48 pm | Permalink

    @Bobby:
    You ‘re quite right of course, and I fear I age myself for harkening back to the days when most large corporation were, at least nominally, American.

  25. Bobby's Gravatar Bobby
    May 12, 2012 - 5:14 pm | Permalink

    @Alice Teller: I wanted to use Americans belief and reliance on entities like multi-national corporations both literally and as a metaphor for misplaced loyalty and loss of true freedom, as these corporations are neither loyal to their workers nor do they make them free in any way.

  26. Adeimantus's Gravatar Adeimantus
    May 12, 2012 - 2:27 pm | Permalink

    @Alice Teller: Thanks for the book suggestion. It will very likely make its way onto my reading-list for this coming Autumn / Winter. :)

  27. Alice Teller's Gravatar Alice Teller
    May 12, 2012 - 8:55 am | Permalink

    @Mickey Meadows:
    Thanks Mickey. My objection to the bugsters was purely aesthetic. As I said from the start if it works I will be delighted but it does not resonate with me.

  28. Mickey Meadows's Gravatar Mickey Meadows
    May 12, 2012 - 6:48 am | Permalink

    @Alice Teller:

    Good thinking Alice. You’re one of the better thinkers I see here. In terms of what would work, what are the barriers to making something work, how those barriers can be used to advantage and so on. The natural focus on things that can be scaled and performance measured (not necessarily in your head like that but that is a characteristic all the same).
    For all those reasons I’m surprised you don’t like the bugster style ideas more, and would imagine your thinking will shift on that….as and when you build up the necessary immunity to the sometimes odd/poor attitudes displayed by its adherents :O)

  29. Alice Teller's Gravatar Alice Teller
    May 12, 2012 - 5:25 am | Permalink

    @Adeimantus:
    I recommend a book, The Devil Knows Latin, which is now dwelling in the strange land of moderation (presumably because I provided a link). It is a great mystery to me what criterion is used to trigger moderation, perhaps an urban dictionary would help.

  30. Alice Teller's Gravatar Alice Teller
    May 12, 2012 - 5:20 am | Permalink

    @Mickey Meadows:
    The other benefit is that it puts people who share affinities with us into natural groups where we can earn their respect before we start ranting about taboo subjects. People are far more likely to listen with an open mind.

    If we use a little imagination there are many groups, genealogical societies, ethnic organizations, locavores, environmental groups and so forth that provide us with common, fertile ground.

  31. Alice Teller's Gravatar Alice Teller
    May 12, 2012 - 5:12 am | Permalink

    @Adeimantus:
    There are now excellent offering that can be downloaded from the public library. If you are working with kids, I urge you to read the book by Christian Kopff :http://www.amazon.com/The-Devil-Knows-Latin-Classical/dp/1882926579/ref=sr_1_sc_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1336813581&sr=1-1-spell
    The Devil Knows Latin, he makes an impressive argument for the benefits of training the mind with a classical education.

  32. Alice Teller's Gravatar Alice Teller
    May 12, 2012 - 5:03 am | Permalink

    @Bobby:
    It was one thing when working for those corporations was justified by the fact that such work supported a wife and children. I remember the first time I was in corporate setting and saw a grown man dressed down by a superior. The thought that went through my mind was ‘ this is why men don’t want women in the workplace, they don’t want us to see this’ and I still believe there was truth to that. Much can be tolerated if is for a noble cause. A men who can go home to a wife who knows nothing of such things and honors his work as fulfillment of the role of a good provider for his family can place his self-esteem in good hands. We have made so many foolish mistakes.

  33. Mickey Meadows's Gravatar Mickey Meadows
    May 12, 2012 - 4:35 am | Permalink

    @Alice Teller:

    Alice – you’re right. And perhaps this should also inform an ‘outreach’ framework whereby if non-WN people are seen to be doing something like this, we assume it is more likely they harbour private WN views than the average in the population

  34. Adeimantus's Gravatar Adeimantus
    May 12, 2012 - 2:49 am | Permalink

    @Alice Teller: What is absolutely essential to our movement is that we encourage our children to opt out of the mainstream pop- culture as much as possible — especially the objectionable, non-European subject-matter.

    Some parents have succeeded in getting the small children to memorize many lines of Shakespeare simply by having them listen repeatedly to first-class CD performances by real Shakespearean actors. This formation of the mind in soaking up what is natural for us Whites is good, and, in my opinion, will open mental pathways for future understanding. Audio CDs of mystery stories (i.e., The Complete Sherlock Holmes), children’s classics, even works of philosophy — all add to the improvement of young minds, all plant useful seeds. High-quality performances of classical music and opera! Yes, bluegrass and European and American folk music — even Stephen Foster! All these contribute to establishing good neural pathways in the brains of young Whites.

  35. Bobby's Gravatar Bobby
    May 12, 2012 - 2:48 am | Permalink

    @Bobby: Pardon me, I meant the faith our “ancestors” had,etc.

  36. Bobby's Gravatar Bobby
    May 12, 2012 - 2:43 am | Permalink

    @Alice Teller: You nailed it Alice when you said, ” We all want to wait for the great white hope or the calamity that will force our hand.”
    Yes, it’s a sign of the infantile reliance and hope on the government so many Americans, especially European-Americans are being discriminated against in so many ways, affirmative action, quotas, language(Spanish required, Mandarin required,etc.– Esperanto sounding good yet?) Looking for formulas and father figures is the way to dicitatorship, which some very intelligent people believe we are in already, corporate fascisim for example. Don’t beleive it? Well how many people proudly base their whole life, their whole value as a human being even, on being an employee of some big corporation? Millions do. It’s completely within European-Americans, in my opinion, to rise above this dependence, if they would only have the faith that our descendents and tribe did, that built this nation from the ground up. They didn’t look to Coca Cola company, or Nestle, or McDonalds, or any multi-national for salvation or an indication of having self worth, they knew they had it. As one of the greatest philosophers that ever lived, Emanuel Kant, said, ” you are valuable for no other reason than your’e a human being”.

  37. Alice Teller's Gravatar Alice Teller
    May 12, 2012 - 12:29 am | Permalink

    @Adeimantus:
    Indeed, I also love good audios of real poetry and not just for kids. In my area of Virginia, I support local efforts to teach kids blue grass music and the craftsmanship of building instruments . It doesn’t have to be high art. The vital thing is that we all promote those things that we love in a proactive manner. There are lots of ways to win this fight beyond muttering about those so and so Jews. It is important to understand the causes of our dilemma, in order to prompt us to fight back in as many ways as we have been assaulted.

  38. Adeimantus's Gravatar Adeimantus
    May 12, 2012 - 12:00 am | Permalink

    @Alice Teller: Also audio books of the great classics, such as Shakespeare, Dickens, and many others — played regularly to White children as they grow up is an excellent part of a healthy cultural diet.

  39. Alice Teller's Gravatar Alice Teller
    May 11, 2012 - 11:33 pm | Permalink

    @Bobby:
    I once heard culture defined as the stories people tell about themselves. We must find a million ways to tell our own story again. We should get on everything that speaks to us personally from promoting your favorite old flicks to good books for kids on down the line. I don’t pretend to understand the possibilities offered by the internet but I urge everyone to find some way to promote our own stories. We all want to wait for the great white hope or the calamity that will force our hand. This is a sign of our terrible state. Just promote the things you love. The whole process does not have to be negative.

  40. Alice Teller's Gravatar Alice Teller
    May 11, 2012 - 11:19 pm | Permalink

    @Will Fredericks:
    No, it was not a typo. I have learned that many people are totally defended against any reference to the Bible and imagine that we will be rendered speechless by this. In this instance I ask if they believe in freedom of conscience? I point out how short the span between a request for tolerance to government sponsored public attacks on anyone who holds a different opinion. What we witnessed in that video was public shaming of an unpopular opinion. Many of the people that I talk to on this issue are basically good people who have been taught that all well-educated people hold these views, and there is no legitimate reason not too. I try to persuade them that there are very valid reasons to hold objections to gay-marriage and other issues that do not rely (directly) on the Bible. I have had success on the grounds of truth, which few will admit to being against. It is a lie that we do not have equal rights. We all have the right to marry a member of the opposite sex subject to many restrictions. Despite being past childbearing years I can not marry my brother. If you ask me to vote for gay marriage, you are asking me to say that there is no distinction between the union of husband and wife and that of two men. This is simply untrue on a physiological level as well as many other. What is in reality demanded, is that I affirm a lie and approve of unhealthy practices.

    I think it is fair for non-believers to ask for other reasons for our positions than Bible verses. Fortunately, since we are dealing with truth this is easy to do. I commend the practice to all. The well-intentioned often think again, the fanatics sputter and spit in a very amusing manner.

  41. C. C. J.'s Gravatar C. C. J.
    May 11, 2012 - 11:05 pm | Permalink

    when are we going to see an article on the rothschilds?

  42. Will Fredericks's Gravatar Will Fredericks
    May 11, 2012 - 9:53 pm | Permalink

    @Alice Teller:

    Gotta watch out for all those hateful Christians, especially if there dare to provide any answer that is not based on the Bible.

    Was “not” a typo?

    Did you catch the government sponsored gay activist who, in an anti-bullying speech, bullied high school kids who had the courage and dignity to walk out when he called the Bible BS?

    Gosh sounds like this forum doesn’t it? Anyway, here’s the link.

    After Mr. Savage used a vulgarity to describe the Bible, approximately one-hundred students made their exit in protest. However, this quiet response raised the ire of the columnist, who then used another vulgarity to criticize the protesters.

    Mr. Savage has since apologized for criticizing these students, admitting that his remarks were “insulting” and tantamount to “name-calling.” It’s unfortunate that a person tasked with talking about the dangers of bullying students, would, in fact, bully students in his audience.

    It Takes Guts To Walk Away From a Fight

  43. don's Gravatar don
    May 11, 2012 - 1:53 pm | Permalink

    are any of the mentioned books available in ePub format? if so, where?

  44. Adeimantus's Gravatar Adeimantus
    May 11, 2012 - 2:10 am | Permalink

    @Bobby: TOTALLY AGREE!

  45. Alice Teller's Gravatar Alice Teller
    May 10, 2012 - 7:59 pm | Permalink

    @Richard:
    Hi Richard, I’m not surprised. The only wonder to me is that some people do not keel over from the cognitive dissonance of simultaneously proclaiming the horrors inflicted on the Constitution by hanging the Ten Commandments while hosting a government supported assault on religious beliefs.

    As to Mark Shields, I guess that no two folks agree on everything. Have a great evening. Alice

  46. May 10, 2012 - 6:49 pm | Permalink

    @Alice Teller:

    Did you catch the government sponsored gay activist who, in an anti-bullying speech, bullied high school kids who had the courage and dignity to walk out when he called the Bible BS?

    I believe he was a homosexual Jew named Dan Savage.

    If you check out his wikipedia page, it’s clear that he does not seem like a peaceful person.

    Even though I mention his Jewishness, I do not consider myself anti-semitic. A while back, someone here on T.O.O. (I don’t remember who) wrote:

    An antisemite condemns people for being Jews, I am not an antisemite.

  47. May 10, 2012 - 6:39 pm | Permalink

    @Alice Teller:

    Hi Mrs. Teller

    I barely know how to phrase this, but Mark Shields, the liberal voice on the News Hour, can never be called handsome. Yet I have a positive reaction to his face. Like a grumpy old elf. Older Jewish faces, no worse in terms of classic features repulse me. I wonder what accounts for this. Is it racial memory, or simply someone who reminds us of a kind uncle?

    I looked him up because I’m interested in physical appearance, and I have to disagree with you (in a friendly way.)

    I think he’s relatively handsome for his age.

    And I agree with you that he has a friendly uncle spirit.

    (I didn’t study his face, just took a quick look.)

    Have a good day/evening, everyone.

  48. Pierre de Craon's Gravatar Pierre de Craon
    May 10, 2012 - 6:32 pm | Permalink

    @Alice Teller: I am not telling you something you don’t already know in saying that demands for and, what is more, punitive legislation requiring “tolerance,” “diversity,” renunciation of “bullying,” and so on ad infinitum are nothing more than tools of Judaeo-Bolshevik suppression of thought and expression, suppression that is directed one way and one way only: towards Christians and white people generally. I have no particular fondness for “mantras” of any sort, but it is undeniable that those who use the term antiracism simply hate whites and the Cross and don’t otherwise give a hoot about anything to do with race.

    I’m gone from this thread now. See you elsewhere, Alice.

  49. Alice Teller's Gravatar Alice Teller
    May 10, 2012 - 6:07 pm | Permalink

    @Pierre de Craon:
    Regarding his views I can certainly see your point. Perhaps he claims some support from me as the last democrat who will, occasionally, give some credit to the other side, within the acceptable borders.

    Here in the South we are enjoying the public celebration of the temper tantrum, as those models of tolerance and love, the gay pride club, viciously slur anyone who dared to vote their conscious regarding gay marriage. I was accused of the usual crimes because I dared to suggest that there ought to be a private space between ‘in the closet’ and ‘in my face’.
    Gotta watch out for all those hateful Christians, especially if there dare to provide any answer that is not based on the Bible.

    Did you catch the government sponsored gay activist who, in an anti-bullying speech, bullied high school kids who had the courage and dignity to walk out when he called the Bible BS?

    Perhaps it is best if I don’t dwell on day-dreams of head-bashing.

  50. Pierre de Craon's Gravatar Pierre de Craon
    May 10, 2012 - 5:20 pm | Permalink

    @Alice Teller: The latter, I suspect. Years ago, I used to see Shields quite often in church on Cape Cod, where thanks to a friend’s generosity, I got to spend a month every summer. My own reaction was to look about me for a heavy metal object with which I could crack his thick Irish skull open. Maybe that’s just me …

  51. Mickey Meadows's Gravatar Mickey Meadows
    May 10, 2012 - 5:04 pm | Permalink

    @blue rose:

    Fair enough..sorry to have imposed myself

  52. Alice Teller's Gravatar Alice Teller
    May 10, 2012 - 4:31 pm | Permalink

    @Pierre de Craon:
    Your comment regarding Rembrandt and his wonderful portraits of old age made me wonder about appealing but homely faces. I barely know how to phrase this, but Mark Shields, the liberal voice on the News Hour, can never be called handsome. Yet I have a positive reaction to his face. Like a grumpy old elf. Older Jewish faces, no worse in terms of classic features repulse me. I wonder what accounts for this. Is it racial memory, or simply someone who reminds us of a kind uncle?

  53. Alice Teller's Gravatar Alice Teller
    May 10, 2012 - 4:21 pm | Permalink

    @blue rose:
    Gee, where have I heard this before? Yiddish curses, charges of being evil because I state the unpleasant but true and most shocking of all, a white woman who dares to defy the PC police by saying that there is some truth in ethnic jokes? Along with the charge of being dead wood, the only remaining problem with our vibrant community, it all sounds strangely familiar.

  54. Pierre de Craon's Gravatar Pierre de Craon
    May 10, 2012 - 4:10 pm | Permalink

    @Alice Teller: Let’s put in a call to Pat Hannagan, shall we? He and bluemouth can then trade comments in the language they speak the best.

    This, alas, has become yet one more thread for the recycling bin. Still, I ought to admit that I reached that conclusion when people started going gaga over Wenner and his stuff, which amounts to nothing more than pop-goes-the-Escher.

  55. blue rose's Gravatar blue rose
    May 10, 2012 - 4:05 pm | Permalink

    Well, I guess the wooden tree house crowd will be here any moment, the clique. All that dead wood, the bough will break.

  56. blue rose's Gravatar blue rose
    May 10, 2012 - 4:00 pm | Permalink

    @ Alice Teller

    Here’s the ethnic slur you used against GREZCM on Andrew Joyce’s article “Revisiting the 19th-Century Russian Pogroms, Part 1: Russia’s Jewish Question”:

    Alice Teller
    May 10, 2012 – 8:30 am | Permalink

    @Andrew Joyce:
    No reasonable person could follow this exchange without concluding that there is more than a tad of truth in all stereotypes and ethnic jokes.

  57. blue rose's Gravatar blue rose
    May 10, 2012 - 3:56 pm | Permalink

    @Alice Teller:

    Well, perhaps you’ll understand this:

    Your twisty, nasty mouth doesn’t go unobserved, SCHMUCK

    We note the ethnic slur you used against GREZCM on Andrew Joyce’s article “Revisiting the 19th-Century Russian Pogroms, Part 1: Russia’s Jewish Question”

    That’s just ONE case in point, but I’m not a note-taking twat unlike yourself. You’ve got one SATANIC mentality, and I could say more about your mentality, but in the interests of this comment board will not say further.

    When it comes to dealing with Satanic mentalities like yours, the exorcists advice not to talk directly to the DEVIL. You are some piece of work.

  58. Alice Teller's Gravatar Alice Teller
    May 10, 2012 - 3:45 pm | Permalink

    @blue rose:
    If I use small words perhaps you will understand. Part of the goal of this site is for us to join together in defense of our culture, heritage, and people. That includes clear thinking and basic levels of civility. If we wanted to dwell on the wonders of Judaism and the joys of resorting to curses when we can’t think of an intelligent response the gutter would suffice.

  59. Alice Teller's Gravatar Alice Teller
    May 10, 2012 - 3:40 pm | Permalink

    @Franklin Ryckaert:
    Great point, thanks.

  60. blue rose's Gravatar blue rose
    May 10, 2012 - 3:20 pm | Permalink

    @Mickey Meadows:

    Do I need your permission to have a side discussion with someone? Others do it. Just do me a favor, and mind your own business. Then things can get back to being nice again, before you interfered. I don’t need your ‘suggestions’. Thank you.

  61. blue rose's Gravatar blue rose
    May 10, 2012 - 3:18 pm | Permalink

    Here we go again, with the two of them now. Right on cue.

  62. Mickey Meadows's Gravatar Mickey Meadows
    May 10, 2012 - 3:05 pm | Permalink

    @blue rose:

    I regularly compliment the Jewish people and also advocate for a solution that makes friends of us and heals the past.

    I didn’t say anything about why you are here, or whether you should be here. What I criticized was that you ‘beg the question’, by defending the Jewish people on grounds few people would or have disputed

    That’s a fair criticism IMHO. Why are you doing that?

    Also, I point to the fact that if you are fascinated/admiring of these aspects of Jewish culture, there are better venues for that part of your inner world. I’m sure there are reasons why you are here that are positive as well…so be here for those reasons and be ‘there’ for other stuff. Just as I am interested in Cosmology but don’t necessarily bring it to this table.

    The problem is not the Jewish people per se, but their hostility to European peoplehood and culture. Right now, they are powerful and we are weak. They are strong and we are barely holding on. In the circumstances perhaps you should be advocating for us on jewish sites, having established with them your personal fascination and high regard of various aspects of their accomplishments and culture?

  63. Alice Teller's Gravatar Alice Teller
    May 10, 2012 - 3:05 pm | Permalink

    @Mickey Meadows:
    Come now Mickey, we know why she is here. No self-respecting group would put up with her inane ramblings, often beginning with “I don’t know what to say about this” followed by eight paragraphs to prove her point, Interspersed with Tourette like outbursts of foulness. A fine example of the white woman, an example to us all.

  64. Bobby's Gravatar Bobby
    May 10, 2012 - 2:21 pm | Permalink

    @Franklin Ryckaert: Interesting points Franklin. I never considered the art of dramatization, obvious as it is now that you mention it. How right you are about what’s left today of this once great art form.

  65. blue rose's Gravatar blue rose
    May 10, 2012 - 2:08 pm | Permalink

    @Z.O.G.:

    Thanks for the reference. I glanced over it and will read it fully because this subject interests me. Regarding the texts discovered at Ugarit were written in four languages, one of which is Sumerian is especially interesting. This is not the first time I’ve come across it. What interests me here are the Sumerian myths of the Anunnaki and the two brothers, Enlil and Enki (Ea). This to me is another lead to what myths the Jews usurped, changed, and called their own.

  66. blue rose's Gravatar blue rose
    May 10, 2012 - 2:00 pm | Permalink

    @Mickey Meadows:

    Never mind that, why I am here. I KNOW why I am here. If you don’t like it that I take sides with the Jews from time to time, touch sh*t. Don’t try that sh*t on me.

  67. Franklin Ryckaert's Gravatar Franklin Ryckaert
    May 10, 2012 - 1:59 pm | Permalink

    @Bobby:
    The highest function of art is to uplift through idealization.
    A lower but still acceptable function is dramatization by depicting human struggle and suffering.
    Nowadays only degradation remains, depicting the weird, the degenerate and the criminal.

    Hollywood films used to be “censored” for their moral standards. The Jews of course removed that control with the known result.

  68. Mickey Meadows's Gravatar Mickey Meadows
    May 10, 2012 - 1:45 pm | Permalink

    @blue rose:

    Few serious people here ever characterize all Jews as evil or dismiss their accomplishments or intelligence.
    It is celebration of European intelligence and accomplishments that is taboo in the world. Can I just say that you can find thousands of sites on the Internet to explore jewish genius and all the positive things. Why do it here, on one of the tiny number of sites concerned with BASIC SURVIVAL of the European people?

  69. Bobby's Gravatar Bobby
    May 10, 2012 - 1:43 pm | Permalink

    This nations culture, along with much of the Western Worlds, has been so “trashed” in every conceivable sense of that word that it’s mindboggling this could have occured in basically less than sixty years. I give the left full credit for this debacle.
    I have often severly criticized Hollywood films of the past fifty or so years for their horrible standards. One thing was clear in the old black and whites however, the writers, directors and people involved had class. Sure it was idealized, but people need high ideals. When one looks at the way people in those films dressed, both men and women, the kind of classy furniture and sets presented, it is uplifting, a fantastic statement as to the condition of the Western World, even as far as eighty years ago.
    The shear elegance and class presented in those films was a tribute to the Western World which showed it was light years ahead of the rest of humankind.

  70. Franklin Ryckaert's Gravatar Franklin Ryckaert
    May 10, 2012 - 1:36 pm | Permalink

    @blue rose:
    You are of course free to be fascinated by whomever you want.
    All I can say is that I find Jews only interesting insofar as that is necessary to “know your enemy”.

  71. blue rose's Gravatar blue rose
    May 10, 2012 - 1:33 pm | Permalink

    @Bobby:

    There is a theory that the Pharaoh Akhenaten (died perhaps in 1336 BC or 1334 BC) who is especially noted for abandoning traditional Egyptian polytheism and introducing worship centered on the Aten [or the One God] , which is sometimes described as monotheistic or henotheistic, see wiki.

    It is always claimed that Moses (or Abraham, whichever it was) was the originator of the idea of a One God, and Akhenaten is never mentioned. But I believe it was Akhenaten who thought it up.

    Next thing I find out is that there is a theory that Moses was the Pharaoh Akhenaten. I don’t buy this theory for a minute. If anything, it’s probably where the idea that the Jews usurped the idea for themselves as being the originators of it.

    If you look at depictions of Akhenaten during his time, they are very different from usual Egyptian carvings and such. Akhenaten’s depictions have an almost cartoon-like quality, not in a bad sense, but very unusual and curious in style. I don’t know what this means or exactly how that style of depictions came about. But one thing is for sure, those depictions do NOT look Jewish. So in my opinion, Akhenaten was not Moses.

  72. blue rose's Gravatar blue rose
    May 10, 2012 - 1:06 pm | Permalink

    @Franklin Ryckaert:

    Yes, I am fascinated by Jewish intelligence and this very peculiar race. If they turned out to be extraterrestrials, I wouldn’t be a bit surprised. Their symbol, the Star of David, is very powerful and I am often very drawn to it myself. It represents a lot of things for them, I think.

    I am very aware of their verbal-manipulative edge. I am also aware of Europeans as having a more creative-imaginative mind.

    But the things is, not all Jews have a verbal-manipulative mentality and go about with a hidden agenda of Jewish supremacism. Many are also just as creative and imaginative as any white. Some of the best movies I’ve ever seen were made by Jewish directors. What springs to mind mostly are Joel and Ethan Coen. Their movie “Barton Fink” was like a study on the nature of perception, and the sound score to that movie was sublime (probably written by a Jewish person too). Their 2001 ‘neo-noir’ film “The Man Who Wasn’t There” is a study of reality. And I recently saw an amusing comedy they did called “Burn After Reading” about how people can get themselves all screwed up as a result of mere words and how they are interpreted by the hearer. I don’t care for all their movies. In fact these may be the only three I like. But I am not aware of ANY non-Jewish film directors that have made outstanding (meaning thoughtful and intellectual) films. I’m open for suggestions, but I’m very particular what movies I like.

    I’m not able to express this clearly, except to say that not all Jews are evil. Seeing through their eyes for a time (without animosity) enables one to understand them better, and thereby perhaps undo any of their machinations before they get off the ground. In any event, this must be happening anyway, as a lot of whites seem to be aware of how organized Jewry works.

    i don’t know what the answer to all this is. But if studying the Talmud makes them adept at hair-splitting and verbal (and therefore manipulation) skills, seems like they got something going for themselves, that whites could learn something from. In fact you said it yourself: “…when we start to understand their ways and mentality we can wrestle ourselves free from their manipulations.”

    For me, I just don’t want to throw out the baby with the bath water, as there are many things about the Jews I like. I find them intellectually interesting.

  73. Z.O.G.'s Gravatar Z.O.G.
    May 10, 2012 - 12:33 pm | Permalink

    @blue rose:

    But for me the KEY to the Jewish Question still remains elusive: Where did the Jews get this notion that they are ‘chosen’? It is hard for me to believe that the actual Creator of the Universe (the Unknown Architect) actually tapped Abraham on the shoulder and introduced himself and said his name was “Yahweh”. So how did the Jews come by this notion?

    Here, blue rose, read this. It should answer all your questions:

    Ugarit and the Bible
    http://www.theology.edu/ugarbib.htm

  74. Franklin Ryckaert's Gravatar Franklin Ryckaert
    May 10, 2012 - 12:17 pm | Permalink

    @blue rose:
    You still seem to be fascinated by Jewish intelligence. I am since long past that, but allright everybody seems to need to go through that stage.

    There is no doubt that Jews have on average a high IQ, but their intelligence is of a different character than that of Europeans. Theirs is mainly a verbal-manipulative kind of intelligence, whereas that of Europeans is more of a creative-imaginative kind, hence their excellence in both art and technology. Jews are good as traders, lawyers, politicians and, yes…as swindlers. Europeans create. Nearly the whole spectrum of civilization and culture on this planet is their creation. Jews cannot even come near. But they can manipulate what others create and they do that with great adroitness to our detriment. In this respect they are “superior” to us, but when we start to understand their ways and mentality we can wrestle ourselves free from their manipulations.

    As for the Jewish “marginality” which would give them a sceptical view of the values of their host society and hence lead them to creativity and excellence, I am not sure about their “creativity” at all. Rather I see a definitely destructive element in their “Culture of Critique”, inspired not by “idealism” – as they claim – but by a destructive supremacism if not outright malice. Weakening (if not destroying) their host society is their aim in order to better exploit it.

    Training in the Talmud is training in legalistic hairsplitting and pilpul i.e. the endeavour to prove the improvable. Such a culture creates “good” lawyers of the type of an Alan Dershowitz, if that is what you admire.

    When you develop real intelligence and real values you see these people for what they are and you lose fascination for their socalled “superior” intelligence let alone their “chosenness”.

  75. Z.O.G.'s Gravatar Z.O.G.
    May 10, 2012 - 12:09 pm | Permalink

    All these debasing egalitarian ideas Professor MacDonald discusses in this article come directly from Christianity. The New Testament proudly proclaims that:

    - ugliness is beauty
    - weakness is strength
    - ignorance is wisdom
    - poverty is wealth
    - sickness is health

    Christianity Exposed
    http://christianitydebunked.wordpress.com/

  76. Bobby's Gravatar Bobby
    May 10, 2012 - 11:20 am | Permalink

    @Alice Teller: Yes, I’ve known those type of people.

  77. Bobby's Gravatar Bobby
    May 10, 2012 - 11:18 am | Permalink

    @blue rose: I believe the ancient Jews did tap into others secret knowledge. If Moses a Jew, became a prince of Egypt, he would have had access to all of the knowledge of the priests of Egypt. I think your’e right about on about this.

  78. Alice Teller's Gravatar Alice Teller
    May 10, 2012 - 9:38 am | Permalink

    @Bobby:
    Almost all boys go through a period when they devour and memorize facts – baseball stats, dinosaur info etc. Most grow out of this and begin to apply judgement, Jews seem to stay in this adolescent state for life. It is a form of intelligence, I suppose, but an odd one.

  79. blue rose's Gravatar blue rose
    May 10, 2012 - 9:23 am | Permalink

    @Mickey Meadows:

    Yes, everything you say is true. We cannot be ‘openly critical’ of the Jews per se. But that paradigm is changing and the <modus operandi of at least the Zionists seems to be going a bit mainstream. Here is a mainstream incident (below). I don’t know what the Jews as a whole are saying about it, but the thing was exposed about what the Israeli Ambassador tried to do:

    Israeli Ambassador Michael Oren not only called the head of CBS news in an attempt to quash a report on the displacement of Palestinian Christians by the Israeli Occupation of the West Bank and East Jerusalem, but he briefed Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu of the far right wing Likud Party on his attempt.

    Israel Attempted to Stop the CBS Report on Palestinian Christians

    To see the CBS interview, go to youtube and put in the search box:

    The Christians of the Holy Land CBS 60 Minutes

    On the matter of inventions, etc. and Jewish lack thereof, this may be due simply to the fact the Jews had no homeland for a few thousand years, but were basically wanders trying to find a home. Now however we have Jews in Space, and I’m sure some have worked at NASA developing the space program.

    List of Jewish astronauts

  80. Mickey Meadows's Gravatar Mickey Meadows
    May 10, 2012 - 9:09 am | Permalink

    @Franklin Ryckaert:

    Could be. I’m definitely not an expert or even well informed on such matters. But I think a lot of it is intuitive, and a lot else based on experience. I’ve been around SW England a lot. But as you say, it could be there is a semitic influence in parts of the population due to historical events.
    My personal views on this matter of who is White (which is what we are talking about in effect), is that we shouldn’t let hostile groups pressure us into making rulings on such matters. It’s a trap…no other group has to do that…because logically it cannot be done because Race/peoplehood is partly about mythology as well. But what we can probably agree on:
    - there is an ideal European form, which as a people we probably want to form concentric rings around according to how close we personally get to that ideal form.
    - Those concentric rings are probably protective of the core, while simultaneously competing and trying to get further in.
    - At some point the outermost rungs around the european people bump into and become intermingled with the outerrungs of other peoples.
    For myself I can say that I can see that core, and also see I’m not in that core. I’m probably about half way out to the edge. That’s ok….I’m part of the European people, and that part doesn’t involve being part of the genetic royalty. Nearer Baldrick if you know what I mean.

  81. Franklin Ryckaert's Gravatar Franklin Ryckaert
    May 10, 2012 - 8:55 am | Permalink

    @Mickey Meadows:
    Well, I am no expert on the physical anthropology of S.W. England but such a type of face doesn’t appear as typical Celtic or even Cro-Magnon to me, rather more Semitic. If he is not fully or partly Jewish his features might be an inheritance of the ancient Phoenicians who are said to have mined tin in that region. That would explain a Richard Gere too.

  82. Mickey Meadows's Gravatar Mickey Meadows
    May 10, 2012 - 8:32 am | Permalink

    @blue rose:

    Hi blue rose – The Jewish are a smart and productive people, no doubt about it.
    But the problem with doing like-for-like comparisons is that we currently live in an environment in which for a long time it has only been acceptable to do complimentary/affirming scholarship on questions (whether historical, behavioural, intellectual, in terms of accomplishments, and so on) regarding the Jewish people.
    This means that, there are a lot of studies out that that are affirming, complimenting, at times loving, perhaps even grovelling and sycophantic (since we are also talking about a powerful group, that power also being beyond the pale to mention let alone study).
    But – and this is where the objective/scientific/enlightened process breaks down….almost nothing in the form of criticism. Not just no criticism of the people itself, but no criticism of any of the above mentioned works abotu the people.
    So all in all, working with this question at a detailed level has to be regarded as very difficult if not impossible. Therefore, for laypersons like ourselves it is more reliable to stick with the big headline stuff and see what if anything can be said at that level of detail.
    The way I see it, the big headline stuff for europeans is (a) produced among the greatest civilizations (b) produced 95% or more of all inventions and discoveries of note (c) produced the scientific revolution..possible one of hte most remarkable accomplishments in the universe let alone in human history (d) also produced the medical, industrial and economic revolutions (e) went to space, the moon, and so on.

    At that level blue rose, the jewish people do not compete at all. They are not represented at all on those levels. So, at this most profound there is no comparison between the peoples because Western people are on a whole different level. Maybe it’s a lower level…some Jewish scholars say so. Or maybe it’s a higher level because of the astonishingly productive and far reaching character of Western accomplishment. I think it’s higher. But whatever, it’s a whole different level.

  83. Mickey Meadows's Gravatar Mickey Meadows
    May 10, 2012 - 8:17 am | Permalink

    @Adeimantus:

    I think there is something to your observation about jewish features becoming more pronounced with age. LOL….I guess some of us are in for a rude awakening when we hit 45 or 50. Just who was granny gertrude ?

  84. blue rose's Gravatar blue rose
    May 10, 2012 - 7:58 am | Permalink

    @Bobby:

    Yes, of course, there are many whites are extremely smart in certain things, almost naturally. I’m not trying to say that Jews are inherently superior in all things. But I don’t like going to the opposite extreme either, that whites are inherently superior in all things.

    You are right about the importance of education in traditional Jewish life, but this didn’t just happen in a vacuum. And it isn’t the full picture.

    There’s this question of their notion of being “chosen” and “a separate people” that has led to their marginality everywhere they have gone down through the ages. That is, how they have handled their relationship to two societies: traditional Jewish communities of origin and modern Western societies in which so many tried to advance. Detached from traditional Judaism and Jewish communal life, and at the same time, how they felt being accepted grudgingly (if at all) by their host societies. “Their marginality made them skeptical of conventional ideas and stimulated creativity that led to intellectual eminence and, often, economic success.” That last statement (which I got from a website on the Jewish Question) is what I thing more truly represents what is behind so-called ‘Jewish movements’ in the arts, that is, their skepticism of conventional ideas which stimulated creativity, that led to intellectual eminence, and often economic success. The Jewish experience down through the ages who accepted the host society’s goals, but due to their status of marginality, found that their creativity (not always necessarily in the arts) as immigrants found themselves blocked from reaching their goals for success (however one wants to define it) through conventional means.

    This is all probably all understood by Prof. MacDonald – the evolutionary strategy.

    The conditions of Jewish life in the Diaspora, where the survival of Jewish communities depended on their ability to develop institutions separate from those in the host societies.

    One article I read hit on two things I thought were interesting explanations for Jewish success:

    In the 3rd century C.E. on “rabbinic Judaism transformed
    Judaism into a religion centered around reading, studying, and implementing the rules of the Torah, the Mishna, and the Talmud” which promoted widespread literacy and high levels of analytic thinking (among men) in a mostly illiterate world and unintentionally preparing Jews for the urban occupations and
    commercial pursuits that ultimately developed where they lived.”

    Second, that “there are externalities to religious study that enhance students’ secular as well as religious studies”, an example of this being that aspects of Jewish education (such as its bilingualism, with one language for religious discourse and another for secular use) could make religiously educated Jews more efficient than non-Jews as students of secular subjects.
    If anyone is interested, the article here’s the link, from Sociological Perspectives, 2007:

    Jewish Economic and Educational Success in the US: A Search for ExplanationsHYPERLINK , by Paul Burstein, University of Washington

    All this is interesting. But for me the KEY to the Jewish Question still remains elusive: Where did the Jews get this notion that they are ‘chosen’? It is hard for me to believe that the actual Creator of the Universe (the Unknown Architect) actually tapped Abraham on the shoulder and introduced himself and said his name was “Yahweh”. So how did the Jews come by this notion? It’s been suggested by some that the ancient Jews (whose own stories show they emanated out of Egypt), usurped for themselves certain hidden ancient knowledge, and then called it their own, put their own spin upon it via the Kabbala, and called themselves the ‘chosen ones’.

    But I still have to wonder if so. The Buddhists (Zen Buddhists) seems to me the highest spirituality understood by man. So it seem to me that Judeo-Christianity is not really the ONLY game in town, but I cannot deny that Judeo-Christianity made its way into Europe and then the United States of America.

  85. Adeimantus's Gravatar Adeimantus
    May 10, 2012 - 7:46 am | Permalink

    @Mickey Meadows: Right. I knew at least one boy from my own childhood who definitely wasn’t one whit Jewish but who rather had this kid’s general (British) look. Even Leon Trotsky did not look especially Jewish as a young child, judging by his early photograph.

  86. Adeimantus's Gravatar Adeimantus
    May 10, 2012 - 7:33 am | Permalink

    @Mickey Meadows: His look isn’t decidedly Jewish. He could be 1/4 Jewish (or one-eighth), but obviously he has a goodly amount of native British genes. If he does have some “Jewish genetics,” it will become more obvious as he grows older. That has been my general observation with Jews: the Jewish look becomes more pronounced as they age.

  87. Mickey Meadows's Gravatar Mickey Meadows
    May 10, 2012 - 7:13 am | Permalink

    @Franklin Ryckaert:

    This kid isn’t obviously Jewish, although it is possible. It is an pretty ancient English look as well, from the South West region of the country. Richard Gere has the same sort of look and he’s a descendent of the first Pilgrims (also often from the SW England)

  88. Adeimantus's Gravatar Adeimantus
    May 10, 2012 - 6:42 am | Permalink

    @Franklin Ryckaert: You may be right. That though had crossed my mind (that he may be Jewish). He also stated in elsewhere that he preferred Ron Paul to Obama and Mitt Romney — an odd sentiment for a Jew?

    Is it just me, or do Jews look ever more Jewish as they age?

  89. Franklin Ryckaert's Gravatar Franklin Ryckaert
    May 10, 2012 - 6:25 am | Permalink

    @Adeimantus:
    Judging from his facial features that “young British boy” on that Youtube video is obviously Jewish.
    The intellectual precocity he displays is not uncommon amoung Jewish children.

  90. Bobby's Gravatar Bobby
    May 10, 2012 - 4:43 am | Permalink

    @blue rose: The Jewish people I have personally known, and some I attended school with, in my opinion, are smart for one and only one reason. They honor the idea of being educated and they apply themselves to whatever subject they desire to know. Too many times, anglos do not. They are too preoccupied with other things. Yes, I know the arguments concerning “nature vs. nurture”, but all other things being equal, that is the reason Jewish people are smart. On the other hand, what I have noticed in my life up to now, is that many, many whites are extremely smart in certain things, almost naturally. I’d honestly say more so thatn Jews or any other group. These are my honest opinions based on my personal objective observations for quite some time now. Much has to do with how dedicated one is to a subject. If that dedication is out of love for a subject, that person will be all the more expert at it.

  91. Adeimantus's Gravatar Adeimantus
    May 10, 2012 - 4:38 am | Permalink

    Some young people are intelligent.

    A young British boy’s YouTube comments on this very subject:

    A 13 year-old’s opinion on contemporary art

  92. blue rose's Gravatar blue rose
    May 9, 2012 - 6:50 pm | Permalink

    @Mickey Meadows:

    They are not good abstract thinkers in the Western sense, because within that strain objectivity is inextricably tied in with it, and they do not excel in that.

    Nor have they, or do they, dominate mathematics. Where did you get that idea?

    I understand what you are saying about abstractivity and objectivity (and how the Jews do not excel in the latter). I only meant they are good at abstract thought, as in higher mathematics. At least that’s the way it appears to me, and from observation they seem to practically dominate the field. Not altogether, but practically.

    I tried to find precise statistics for you, googling something like ‘Non-Jews to Gentiles to Jews ratio higher mathematics’, but cannot find a good website. I don’t know if exact, precise statistics exist. On the other hand, everyone seems to be in agreement that, whatever their secret, Jews manage to excel. I don’t think you’ll deny this. Just from a couple of websites, the first one is Jewish:

    ‘When given the chance, as in Europe after the Enlightenment, we blossomed. We have won a hugely disproportionate number of Nobel Prizes and Field Medals in mathematics. ‘

    ‘And, of course, the extraordinarily high proportion of Jews in such fields as medicine, law, finance, literature, science, creative arts and the media is as obvious as it is astonishing. To some, these facts are awkward and even embarrassing, feeding stereotypes of “crafty” and “clever” Jews good at making money and flaunting their superiority to non-Jews. Indeed, the subject – the fact, if you will now allow — of Jewish intellectual superiority is rarely if ever discussed in Jewish publications.’

    That second quote is also from a Jewish website, but one that mentions Charles Murray (of Bell Curve fame):

    ‘Murray has recently written a brilliant and convincing essay for the respected Jewish publication “Commentary,” on “Jewish Genius,” citing many of the above facts and material on which this article is based . This is the first time the magazine has systematically discussed this normally taboo topic that so many Jews are reluctant publicly to acknowledge.’

    This was an interesting article, so I’ll give the link:

    Why Are Jews So Smart?

    The thing is, for me, this Jewish Question is still a puzzlement.

    As a side thing, I once had occasion to look into the history of currency (just for visuals), and discovered that many Jewish mathematicians were honored by having their likeness on the banknotes of different countries. Not all of them shown are Jewish, I imagine. But I imagine they were honored for Mathematics and Physics, not because behind-the-scene Jews were at work pushing for it. Just thought it was interesting:

    Banknotes featuring Scientists and Mathematicians: , or “Scientists and Mathematicians
    on Money”. There are 5 pages of interesting currency.

    None of this is to exalt the Jews. But they most definitely are a conundrum.

  93. Jim's Gravatar Jim
    May 9, 2012 - 3:21 pm | Permalink

    A thoughtful review of what sounds like an intriguing book. A few thoughts on some of the quotes that Kevin MacDonald referenced :

    “Fraser laments the decline of Indo-European aristocratic culture, beginning with the Puritan revolution of the 17th century and carried to its logical conclusion in America with the defeat of the South in the Civil War.”

    Don’t forget that the political and spiritual vulgarity of Oliver Cromwell sent the English running back to the crown for another couple of centuries, albeit a more parliamentary crown with less centralized authority.

    “Frederick Art, a historian, notes that ‘in the age of the Baroque, they evidently wanted to smooth and regulate all nature and make, as it were, domestic pets of the rivers and mountains.”

    Is it so hard to understand that back in the age of famine, plague and 40 year life spans that humanity sought an ideal that involved supremacy over nature? Nature wasn’t the benignly beautiful backdrop to our lives that it is now. I believe his validates my view that today’s prevailing “wisdom” is derived from affluence, bounty and middle class privilege more than anything else. It’s a rootless wisdom that will likely dissipate with the onset of hard times.

    “Not until the end of the 19th century did the crudeness of nature become an artistic ideal.”

    Yes, among city dwellers. A disconnection or separation from reality makes one seek a sort of surrogate reality, hence the “reality through art” movement. This movement isn’t without it’s own sense of virtuosity, that being the ability to make the ugly and repulsive somehow appealing to the masses.

  94. Tom's Gravatar Tom
    May 9, 2012 - 12:32 pm | Permalink

    One thing for sure, Lucien Freud proves that there are limits to realism. LOL.

  95. Alice Teller's Gravatar Alice Teller
    May 9, 2012 - 12:24 pm | Permalink

    @Clytemnestra:
    It has been many years, and I did not get far in the book, but if memory serves, I would not describe Sophie Portnoy’s feeling as loving, rather as intrusive and controlling. Jewish mothers are certainly never indifferent to their children but I am not sure it is what we call love.

    More to the point, except for a few critics, Jews received Portnoy’s Complaint as an instant classic and hysterically funny, full of truth regarding the Jewish family. Here is the review from the N.Y. Times.

    http://www.nytimes.com/books/97/04/20/reviews/roth-greenfeld.html

    Sadly, Jewish women did not have better relationships with their daughters. Both Gloria Steinem and Betty Friedan wrote about their mothers’ with real contempt. Truly a different breed.

  96. Mickey Meadows's Gravatar Mickey Meadows
    May 9, 2012 - 10:39 am | Permalink

    @blue rose:

    They are not good abstract thinkers in the Western sense, because within that strain objectivity is inextricably tied in with it, and they do not excel in that.

    Nor have they, or do they, dominate mathematics. Where did you get that idea?

    Western art has always encouraged diversity of thought. The intellectual movements were aimed at undermining and breaking up the European self-image and confidence. Motive matters a lot. If I distract you just as you are stepping into the road by saying the most moving and beautiful thing you have ever heard in your life, and you dizzily step in front of an oncoming truck, and that was what I intended to happen. Then…none of those details, the beauty the being moved, mitigate anything at all. It was a murderous malign motive…and that is all it was.

  97. Mickey Meadows's Gravatar Mickey Meadows
    May 9, 2012 - 10:06 am | Permalink

    I think it’s important to make a distinction between the malignancy of these 20th century intellectual/artistic movements, and the real or potential value/meaningfulness of exploring strange/unexpected/uncomfortable matters through art.
    On its own, forgetting the movement which it was a part, I like that painting of the obese woman. It’s moving, and make me think, wonder about things, reflect. What is courage, what is decency, what is loyalty and dedication. Women like that often make really dedicated mums, or are really incorruptible in dispensing whatever authority it is they are custodian of.
    It’s a good painting, artistically speaking.
    That said, I probably wouldn’t put it in one of the daily-living rooms. I wouldn’t want to look at it every day.

  98. Clytemnestra's Gravatar Clytemnestra
    May 9, 2012 - 9:29 am | Permalink

    @Alice Teller:

    The disdain swung both ways. Has anyone else ever read Portnoy’s Complaint? The book was written by a Jewish male and really did a number on Jewish mothers. It was obvious that the “hero’s” mother adored him. But the author drew the Jewish mama more like a vicious parody of womanhood than a flawed but loving human being. She was monstrous. All to validate him masturbating over naked shiksas in men’s magazines.

    Never mind that this “hero” looked awfully seedy and repulsive as any self-loathing porn addict would to the reader. I am not Jewish and I was very offended as a woman by this trash. I imagine that Jewish women saw no benefit to being Jewish mothers when they stumbled on this blatant ingratitude. To pour one’s heart and soul into one’s son and make him the center of one’s universe did not seem like a smart move when all he was going to do was run after shiksas. Rather than RAISE the men they wanted their daughters to marry why not raise their daughters to be the MEN they wanted to marry instead?

  99. Alice Teller's Gravatar Alice Teller
    May 9, 2012 - 7:53 am | Permalink

    @Sandy:
    I am not sure I understand your question. Will you expand on it?

  100. blue rose's Gravatar blue rose
    May 9, 2012 - 7:34 am | Permalink

    Bear’s comment:

    in a discusion regarding “body” that both Islam & modern abstractionism reject images of the body. It occurs to me that the affinity for jews to abstractionist art is nothing less than a vistigial effect of their own tradional religions rejection of idolatry and images of the human body.

    Trying to figure out the Jews, I read somewhere that they are highly adept at abstract thinking. I figure this is why they practically dominate the field of higher mathematics. The theoretical mathematicians, for instance. A small group of them worked on the Manhattan Project and were and are still noted in their field as highly creative theoreticians, going on to other things later.

    I would guess that Jews, being free of idolatry and rejecting images of the human body and such, frees up the mind to explore the abstract world, and hence creativity is allowed to flow.

    Bigmo’s comment:

    That is assuming these Jewish movements were genuine or were they simply trying to promote diversity of thoughts and behavior in Gentile culture.

    To be honest, this is how I’ve always seen what is described as ‘Jewish movements’ — simply to promote diversity of thought, and maybe even behavior, if by that one means a breakout out of a stifling Paradigm that doesn’t allow for the full range of human experience. Of course things go bad when some take things too far. But this is usually the only way for things to change and to get beyond constrictive roles and modes of behavior: by shaking the tree.

    I also think the Jewish Kabbala is the origin of their concept of God, that has seeped over into Christianity, and why Christians think they know the Mind of God, and what ‘God wants’, and what ‘God thinks’ and who ‘God loves the most’, etc. It’s all derived from Jewish Kabbalistic thought. The Kabbala does not employ idols, and is simply a diagram of the Tree of Life.

  101. Bigmo's Gravatar Bigmo
    May 9, 2012 - 4:58 am | Permalink

    Bear May 8, 2012 – 1:54 am | Permalink I have just purschased Thomas Martins new book on Kindle. Mr Martin notes on Location 241 in a discusion regarding “body” that both Islam & modern abstractionism reject images of the body. It occurs to me that the affinity for jews to abstractionist art is nothing less than a vistigial effect of their own tradional religions rejection of idolatry and images of the human body. Jews segregate themselves not only by taboos which regards the food of the goyim as impure but also their revulsion of the goyims idols and images; this to the extent that a tennants house which once contained a crucifix is by some regarded as unclean and unfit for Jewish habitation.

    The above Lucien Freud:’s “Benefits Supervisor Sleeping” is at one level heir to this and at another level simply anti White; rather than images of physical beauty and spiritual beauty which remind us of the potential for new life, rebirth and renewal of our selves within our race we have portraits of degeneration that would appear to simply be designed to disrupt this refreshing effect.

    I think we see a similar effect when ethno-Marxist feminists describe Western Culture as “Misogynist”. There seems nothing quite as misogynist as the Talmud and torah (Old Testament) and its many bizarre edicts (e.g. menstruation as impure) which must be quite distressing to Jewish girls. So when we see criticisms of Western culture as misogynist we are seeing a Jewess referring her anger at her own religion towards gentiles or some naïve gentile mindlessly regurgitating this serendipitously effective meme she has been infected with.

    End quote

    That is assuming these Jewish movements were genuine or were they simply trying to promote diversity of thoughts and behavior in Gentile culture.

    There is a high degree of toleration among Jews for their Rabbis and their Talmud.

    The Babylonioan Talmud emerged during the Jewish presence in babylon where they were surrounded by a pagan culture. The question was how do we maintain our Judaism in this pagan environment where we are away from our traditional lands.

    The problem with Judaism is they did not develop any differentiation between Christianity and your average Gentile paganism. Judaism is a minority startegy. It did not evolve like Islam where the Sunni/Shia sects emerged during the Abbasid Empire where the Muslim Meccan Arabs were the rulite elites of an Empire. The Muslims developed some differentiation between Jews and Christian as compare to paganism. As long as the Jews and Christian communities did not challenge their authority, the Muslim authority categorized them as second class citizens and gave them some recognition. Islam is a majority religion.

    Christianity meanwhile evolved also like Islam to head an Empire. But ist structure is European rather than Eastern. No oral traditions with any form of excessive legalism and ritualism.

  102. Sandy's Gravatar Sandy
    May 9, 2012 - 3:24 am | Permalink

    @Alice Teller: Remember that the classic emotion associated with the Jewish mother is guilt. I didn’t know that Alice. I wonder how that pagan belief was transferred into Christianity?

  103. Trenchant's Gravatar Trenchant
    May 9, 2012 - 1:17 am | Permalink

    World War I saw off the last of the old natural hierarchy, with the end of the Classical Gold Standard, the only popular check against government and financial power. Culture merely follows the money…did Jeff Koons say that, or me?

  104. Richard's Gravatar Richard
    May 9, 2012 - 12:15 am | Permalink

    @Richard:

    I want to add that even though I think physical beauty is great and important, I still love and appreciate some people that might look like the overweight woman in the painting above.

    I mean, some of the moms of some of the great and beautiful White people that I know probably look similar to the overweight painted woman.

    It’s probably not easy for some women in their 40′s and 50′s to stay fit, with all the luxuries and food temptations all around. It’s easy to gain weight. And I think their bodies naturally gain weight at that age?

    My point is, I would hate for those moms to hate themselves because of their weight, or what their bodies look like at that age.

    I’m thinking of one particular mom. She must have been a great mom because her daughter is beautiful inside and out. So I love her (the mom) so much. And I think she might be overweight, although I haven’t seen her in a long time, and my memory is somewhat cloudy.

  105. Alice Teller's Gravatar Alice Teller
    May 8, 2012 - 11:44 pm | Permalink

    @fender:
    The first time I saw Freud’s painting I thought it was a portrait of Roseanne Barr, but I an downright delighted to read that you are laughing.

  106. Alice Teller's Gravatar Alice Teller
    May 8, 2012 - 11:40 pm | Permalink

    @Bear:
    I could not agree more. If one looks at the position of Jewish women who grew up in the 1950s, they had little reason to respect their men. Judaism gave all the power to men, and little respect to women. If you will excuse the lack of romance, on a basic level women make an exchange with men. I will do this and that, and you will kill or die for me and my children if the need arises. Few today even mention the intense shame felt by many American Jews at the total surrender of their men. They never opted to die fighting. They failed their women and children. Why defer to such a man? See Hannah Arendt.

    In addition, Jewish women had so completely accepted the narrow values of Jewish society, they never saw motherhood as a joy but a duty and a burden. Remember that the classic emotion associated with the Jewish mother is guilt. One of the oft offered benefits of feminism was that it would put an end to the jewish mother. See Betty Friedan.

    The great tragedy is that we underestimated the power of modern media and allowed girls to be inculcated from a very young age.

  107. Richard's Gravatar Richard
    May 8, 2012 - 10:57 pm | Permalink

    Evolutionary psychologists have shown that the faces that humans find attractive are generalized. That is, faces that are produced by averaging dozens of real photos are judged attractive. Martin expands on this by suggesting that “there is a certain nobility in the generalized face, which helps create the sense that it is ideal.

    I want to ask a question, and I hope it helps others. It’s not really to satisfy my personal curiosity. And I hope I ask it in a way that makes sense.

    Were all the dozens of faces White?

    What if we averaged all the faces of every human being on the Earth? Or at least all the faces from a certain age group — let’s say 21 years old. All 21 year olds from every race.

    We’d probably end up with something very non-White.

    I think that would take us away from the beautiful White face.

    The most beautiful people I know are people that I’ve known in my real life, beautiful gals from my past.

    When I think about them, and when I’m honest with myself, I realize that I didn’t really deserve to know them or associate with them. Beautiful people are like royalty in a way. Even modern egalitarian America still knows that beautiful people are special. And they are.

    That’s not to say that I don’t think the inside counts for much; of course the inside is very important. And, I think, in a way the inside creates the outside, over time.

    Anyway, I’m not necessarily asking anyone to respond to my thoughts here. I just felt a need to get them out there in case they might help.

    Thanks to Dr. MacDonald for this article, and being courageous and loving enough to point out the rise of Jews as a hostile elite.

    On a somewhat related note (I’m not sure how related it is) I saw a news story that the author of the children’s book Where The Wild Things Are died.

    I thought about the movie, which I tried to sit through in 2009 but could not, and I wondered if the author was Jewish. A quick search confirmed that he was. Not only was he Jewish, but he was homosexual.

    (To his credit he did not make homosexuality a part of his public life. I don’t hate people who consider themselves homosexual or “gay”, but I don’t think their behavior/attraction is good for anyone, including themselves.)

    Anyway, it turns out that T.O.O.’s Edmund Connelly wrote an article about the movie in 2010:

    http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2010/01/goyland-where-the-wild-things-are/

    I know I’m not perfect myself. So I’m not necessarily putting myself about… others. So please forgive me if that is necessary. I think it is. I think the need for some kind of small practical forgiveness is ever-present.

    Have a good week.

  108. May 8, 2012 - 5:12 pm | Permalink

    inspiring thoughts Kevin, I look forward to your review of The WASP Question, I hope for a moral regime based on brain-scan detection of mental disorders

  109. blue rose's Gravatar blue rose
    May 8, 2012 - 2:49 pm | Permalink

    @Tom:

    I never heard of Kurt Wenner before, so this is pretty eye-opening.

    His website is scrumptiously done, simply exquisite. I imagine he himself designed it. In the ‘architecture’ section, his vision seems to go even beyond Greek and Roman architectural styles, taking them to the etheric realm.

    Looking at the youtube of Wenner, I can’t believe such creativity is given this one man. All these visions inside his head? Is he a god?

    Surely somewhere, someone in the arts is funding a museum in Kurt Wenner’s name.

  110. Tom's Gravatar Tom
    May 8, 2012 - 12:13 pm | Permalink

    @Richard Pierce:

    Wenner is probably the greatest draftsman since Picasso, and in some ways his work surpasses synthetic cubism & analytic cubism.

  111. Adeimantus's Gravatar Adeimantus
    May 8, 2012 - 10:57 am | Permalink

    Much of the art of Greek and Roman and European antiquity, which tried to capture idealized human beauty, would get artists into serious trouble in modern times, while filth and degenerate art is taken seriously.

  112. Adeimantus's Gravatar Adeimantus
    May 8, 2012 - 10:54 am | Permalink

    “Evolutionary psychologists have shown that the faces that humans find attractive are generalized.”

    This means that Plato is vindicated! He postulated forms or ideas that are ultimately generalized ideals that no specific individual fully realizes or manifests.

  113. Richard Pierce's Gravatar Richard Pierce
    May 8, 2012 - 10:13 am | Permalink

    @Tom,

    Great stuff, that Kurt Wenner.

  114. Tom's Gravatar Tom
    May 8, 2012 - 9:32 am | Permalink

    I find it fascinating that Kurt Wenner is doing this with chalk on parking lots & sidewalks: http://www.kurtwenner.com/web_old/gallery/Street_gallery/index.htm
    http://www.kurtwenner.com/web_old/gallery/NewWork_gallery/index.htm

  115. Wolfgang Star's Gravatar Wolfgang Star
    May 8, 2012 - 6:46 am | Permalink

    “But there is (as the greatest of the ancient Greeks discovered) a certain indissoluble Trinity of Truth, Beauty and Goodness. You cannot deny or attack one of these three without at the same time denying or attacking both the others. Therefore with the advance of this new and terrible enemy against the Faith and all that civilization which the Faith produces, there is coming not only a contempt for beauty but a hatred of it; and immediately upon the heels of this there appears a contempt and hatred for virtue.” Hilaire Belloc

  116. Bear's Gravatar Bear
    May 8, 2012 - 1:54 am | Permalink

    I have just purschased Thomas Martins new book on Kindle. Mr Martin notes on Location 241 in a discusion regarding “body” that both Islam & modern abstractionism reject images of the body. It occurs to me that the affinity for jews to abstractionist art is nothing less than a vistigial effect of their own tradional religions rejection of idolatry and images of the human body. Jews segregate themselves not only by taboos which regards the food of the goyim as impure but also their revulsion of the goyims idols and images; this to the extent that a tennants house which once contained a crucifix is by some regarded as unclean and unfit for Jewish habitation.

    The above Lucien Freud:’s “Benefits Supervisor Sleeping” is at one level heir to this and at another level simply anti White; rather than images of physical beauty and spiritual beauty which remind us of the potential for new life, rebirth and renewal of our selves within our race we have portraits of degeneration that would appear to simply be designed to disrupt this refreshing effect.

    I think we see a similar effect when ethno-Marxist feminists describe Western Culture as “Misogynist”. There seems nothing quite as misogynist as the Talmud and torah (Old Testament) and its many bizarre edicts (e.g. menstruation as impure) which must be quite distressing to Jewish girls. So when we see criticisms of Western culture as misogynist we are seeing a Jewess referring her anger at her own religion towards gentiles or some naïve gentile mindlessly regurgitating this serendipitously effective meme she has been infected with.

  117. Tom's Gravatar Tom
    May 7, 2012 - 9:47 pm | Permalink

    Here’s a really interesting modern artist named Kurt Wenner.
    http://www.kurtwenner.com/

  118. Pierre de Craon's Gravatar Pierre de Craon
    May 7, 2012 - 7:17 pm | Permalink

    @Pierre de Craon: “Reynolds’s late portrait”; sorry.

  119. Pierre de Craon's Gravatar Pierre de Craon
    May 7, 2012 - 7:16 pm | Permalink

    @fender: Excellent point, but be fair to the present participants. The word Martin used, following Vasari, was “idealization,” a term with quite different implication.

    In furtherance of your comment about Lucien Freud, compare (if you can bear to) his work with Reynold’s late portrait of a very battered and pockmarked Johnson or, supremely, with any of Rembrandt’s deeply moving portraits of old people—not excluding himself. There is nothing either idealistic or idealized about these portraits, but their power to raise the mind, heart, and soul to a previously unthought-of vista of what the term “true beauty” can encompass is undeniable.

  120. fender's Gravatar fender
    May 7, 2012 - 5:20 pm | Permalink

    I wish we wouldn’t use the word “idealistic.” Beauty isn’t idealistic, it’s part of nature. Aryans never worshipped the “ideal,” we worshipped the real. Beauty and truth are synonymous.

    Also, did anyone else burst out laughing at Lucien Freud’s painting? It’s so typical of the tribe and its cultural obsession with ugliness and degeneration.

  121. sanjay's Gravatar sanjay
    May 6, 2012 - 11:58 pm | Permalink

    @Curmudgeon:

    Greeks, Romans and later Anglo-Germanic people worshipped beauty, power and light. It was a good culture until Jew poisoned it.

    today entertainment and art means sitting in front of TV with soda and fatty food and wasting all the life.

    That is what that Jewish painting all about. making the west fat, ugly and addicted to TV.

    Get rid of TV and you win half the battle.

  122. Junghans's Gravatar Junghans
    May 6, 2012 - 11:35 pm | Permalink

    Stoddard’s book was called THE REVOLT AGAINST CIVILIZATION.

  123. Lombard's Gravatar Lombard
    May 6, 2012 - 10:55 pm | Permalink

    I’d imagine that without the Patrons and Aristocrats, Leonardo and Mikey would be reduced to selling pornographic illustrations to regular homeowners to make $$. Not unlike today’s system.

  124. Tom's Gravatar Tom
    May 6, 2012 - 7:50 pm | Permalink

    @D. K.:

    Michelangelo wasn’t going to win any prizes for good looks. Here’s one of the flattering portraits of him: http://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/artists/michelangelo

    Plus, we tend to forget that the great artists of the High Renaissance like Michelangelo were what we would think of today as painting contractors, rather than individual artists.

  125. D. K.'s Gravatar D. K.
    May 6, 2012 - 7:15 pm | Permalink

    It should be noted that the innate human appreciation of “average-looking” faces is a result of our innate attraction to symmetry, as a marker of physical health. When a large number of faces are averaged out to create an “average-looking” composite, the “errors” deviating from perfect symmetry tend to offset one another, thus approaching symmetry in the composite more so than in any of the individual cases used as inputs to create that composite.

  126. May 6, 2012 - 7:15 pm | Permalink

    Important to remember is the “Arts” are now linked to entertainment, as in “Arts and Entertainment” sections of magazines, newspapers, and TV. Now that news is “entertainment” it must be “art” as well.
    All of the sludge that passes for art these days, whether musical, visual, or other, cannot hold a candle to the forms that existed prior to the 20th century.

    I have been in the National Gallery in London sitting in front of large canvasses by Constable and Reynolds. Although they are not considered to be great artists, their works of rural England draw the viewer into the painting, as if to be observing from within.
    The grace of Greek and Roman statuary continued for more than 2 millennia.
    The beauty of western music whether by Hildegard von Bingen, Bach, or Verdi is pleasant and easy harmonious.
    We now have our visual and auditory senses assaulted by distortion and discord.

Comments are closed.