Triggered by Beethoven: The Cultural Politics of Racial Resentment

2020 was meant to be a year of celebration for Beethoven who was baptized 250 years ago (his exact date of birth is unknown) in Bonn on December 17, 1770. COVID-19 prompted the cancelation of commemorative concerts of Beethoven’s music, but the pandemic didn’t quell efforts by anti-White activists to attack the composer’s reputation and dominant place in the cultural pantheon of the West. Rather than a year full of performances of the great composer’s sonatas, string quartets, concertos and symphonies, 2020 saw repeated attacks on Beethoven for the crime of being a White male genius and for embodying the European musical tradition.

Beethoven is the most-performed composer in the repertoire, and his anniversary year was planned to be no exception. Before the widespread cancellation of concerts, 15 to 20 per cent of the repertoire programmed by leading orchestras was music by Beethoven. Widely regarded as the greatest composer of all time, Beethoven is inescapable because he remade almost every genre of concert music that matters. The concerto and symphony in his hands became driving musical narratives of heroic struggle. His late string quartets open a profound window on to the soul. Unlike his predecessors who were craftsmen who supplied a commodity to a paymaster, Beethoven ushered in the age of Romanticism by insisting on his creative independence and the absolute importance of self-expression: “What is in my heart must come out so I write it down.” This was manifested in his refusal to take a secure, salaried position like his one-time tutor Joseph Haydn who was the master of music for a feudal landowner in what is now Hungary.

Beethoven’s heroism in overcoming the worst thing that can happen to a composer — worsening deafness from young adulthood — to compose some of the greatest music ever has awed generations and become emblematic of triumph over adversity. All the stories of Beethoven’s misanthropy, his eccentricity and wildness, date from the decline in his hearing, which often caused him acute physical pain. Only his art prevented him from taking his own life: “It seemed to me impossible to leave the world until I had brought forth all that I felt was within me.” While Beethoven’s confidence as a pianist and conductor gradually diminished with his creeping deafness, his imaginative powers as a composer grew stronger and stronger, and he cast a daunting shadow over his successors: Brahms did not feel confident tackling a symphony until he was in his forties.

Beethoven excelled at his trade because he was born with a gift and worked at it as hard as it is possible to work. Swafford notes how his sketches and manuscripts reveal that:

Nothing came easily to him, least of all composing. Where Mozart could dream up a whole piece in his head while playing billiards, Beethoven had to worry and whip every note into place in his sketches. The sketchbooks are amazing documents: gold being refined from raw ore, pedestrian ideas becoming revolutionary concepts, incoherence being forged into clarity and purposefulness. Even the final manuscripts are a morass of scrawls and blots and revisions on top of revisions.[1]

Beethoven’s Faustian spirit made him into the kind of figure that dominated the imagination of nineteenth century Europeans: the superhuman genius, the revolutionary hero, the master of his own fate and transformer of the world. This reputation carried over into the twentieth century with the influential French writer Romain Rolland holding the composer up as a role model for a less heroic age, epitomizing personal sincerity and self-denial — in a word, authenticity.[2]

Attacks on Beethoven

Laudatory references to White male geniuses like Beethoven inevitably trigger rage from anti-White commentators who huff that it has “long been an argument of white supremacists, Nazis, Neo-Nazis, and racial separatists that ‘classical music,’ the music of ‘white people,’ is inherently more sophisticated, complicated, and valuable than the musical traditions of Africa, Asia, South America, or the Middle East, thus proving the innate superiority of the ‘white race.’” Seen through the Cultural Marxist lens of critical race and gender theory, Beethoven’s music dominates the concert repertoire not because of its exceptional quality, but because White-male privilege and assumptions about White-male genius keep it there. Linda Shaver-Gleason insisted Beethoven’s dominant place in the canon was the result of a White supremacist conspiracy which “intentionally suppressed” the music of non-White composers “in the service of a narrative of white — specifically German — cultural supremacy (because, alas, that too is part of Western culture).”

Slate online recently rebuked Beethoven for his mononym: the fact he is known by a single name, like Michelangelo or Shakespeare. This practice supposedly gives the pedestal of nomenclature to “straight white men at the expense of everyone else.” White male composers, it is claimed, “became so ensconced in elite musical society’s collective consciousness that only one word was need to evoke their awesome specter. Mouthfuls of full names became truncated to terse sets of universally recognized syllables: Mozart. Beethoven. Bach.” The works of composers with mononyms are therefore assumed to be “on a different plane,” whereas this assumption is, we are told, actually the product of “centuries of systematic prejudice, exclusion, sexism and racism.”

In a recent Vox podcast and article, musicologist Nate Sloan and songwriter Charlie Harding claim the opening bars of Beethoven’s Fifth Symphony (the famous da-da-da-DUM motif) should not be given their traditional interpretation — the sound of fate knocking on the door and Beethoven’s resilience in the face of encroaching deafness — but should be construed as the sound of the gate slamming shut on minorities, such as “women, LGBTQ+ people, people of color.” They assert (without evidence) that “wealthy white men” embraced the Fifth Symphony as a “symbol of their superiority and importance.” Black clarinetist Anthony McGill agrees, likening the inescapability of the Fifth Symphony to a “wall” between classical music and new, racially-diverse audiences.

Jewish music writer Norman Lebrecht defended Beethoven against Sloan and Harding’s polemic by citing Beethoven’s “liberal” credentials, claiming, for example, that they “fail to explore how Beethoven’s Fifth served for millions as a symbol of freedom in the war against Nazism.” Unmentioned by Lebrecht is the fact that, despite Beethoven’s politics — which were liberal for their time (he had republican sympathies) — the composer made repeated comments critical of Lebrecht’s own ethnic group. On one occasion, he rejected the idea of selling his Missa Solemnis to the Jewish music publisher Adolf Schlesinger in favor of the German publisher C.F. Peters, informing the latter that: “In no circumstances will Schlesinger ever get anything more from me, because he too has played me a Jewish trick.” Beethoven’s disgust with Schlesinger was prompted by repeated experiences of being short-changed with “such insulting niggardliness, the like of which I have never experienced.”[3] In a letter of 1823, Beethoven called Schlesinger “a beach peddler and rag-and-bone Jew.” In his negotiations with another publisher, Beethoven noted the publisher was “neither Jew nor Italian” and that as he himself was also neither of these, “perhaps we shall come to some agreement.”[4]

Sloan and Harding are on stronger ground in arguing the thematic complexity of the Fifth Symphony necessitated unprecedentedly close listening to fully grasp, and this, in turn, led to the establishment of new norms of concert behavior. These norms — sitting still, staying quiet and not clapping mid-piece — led to the strict culture of classical music that persists to this day, and which allegedly oppresses non-Whites who cannot reasonably be expected to conform to such standards of behavior. Sloan and Harding lament that classical concerts are the sole remaining American institution that typically insists on starting on time. Rather than a sign of respect for all parties involved, these behavioral and procedural norms are, they insist, symbols of White supremacy which alienate “diverse audiences,” and their origins can be traced to Beethoven.

Jewish music writer for The New Yorker, Alex Ross, labelled the planned 2020 Beethoven celebrations “a gratuitously excessive celebration of the two-hundred-and-fiftieth birthday of a composer who hardly needs any extra publicity.” He insists that, in the wake of the Black Lives Matter riots, an examination of the relationship between classical music, which he labels “blindingly white, both in its history and present,” and racism is “sorely needed” because of the genre’s “extreme dependence on a problematic past.” Ross claims that when the classical music tradition was transplanted to the United States, the “white majority tended to adopt European music as a badge of its supremacy. The classical-music institutions that emerged in the mid- and late nineteenth century — the New York Philharmonic, the Boston Symphony, the Metropolitan Opera, and the like — became temples to European gods. … Little effort was made to cultivate American composers; it seemed more important to manufacture a fantasy of Beethovenian grandeur.”

For Ross, classical music can only “overcome the shadows of its past” if it commits itself to a “much more radical confrontation with the white European inheritance,” and by programing more non-White composers like Julius Eastman — a Black composer whose “improvisatory structures, his subversive political themes, and his openness about his homosexuality give him a revolutionary aspect, yet he also had a nostalgic flair for the grand romantic manner.’”

In the frontline of attacks on Beethoven in 2020 was Black music writer and Hunter College academic Philip Ewell, who penned an article titled “Beethoven was an Above-Average Composer — Let’s Leave it at That.” Ewell begrudges the laudatory epithets routinely applied to White composers like Beethoven and their works. For Ewell, adjectives like “genius” and “masterwork,” evoke slavery (master-slave) and sexism (master-mistress), and the classical music lexicon is, in his assessment, overflowing with euphemisms that disguise and reinforce the “white-male frame.”

In addition to “master’ and its derivatives, here are some of the other common euphemisms for white and whiteness in music theory’s white racial frame: authentic, canonic, civilized, classic(s), conventional, core (“core” requirement), European, function (“functional” tonality), fundamental, genius, German (“German” language requirement), great (“great” works), maestro, opus (magnum “opus”), piano (“piano” proficiency, skills), seminal, sophisticated, titan(ic), towering, traditional, and western. Even terms such as “the long nineteenth century” and “fin de siècle” can be considered euphemisms for whiteness and white framing for their close associations with dates and events (and languages) significant to Europe and Europeanism. Such euphemisms are intended to sublimate whiteness into less objectionable forms, thus mitigating the effect of whiteness on music theory and hiding its existence.

Rather than enjoying a merited reputation for the brilliance and originality of his oeuvre, Ewell insists Beethoven’s fame has been upheld by such lexical scaffolding, claiming Beethoven, “along with countless other white males, has been propped up by the white-male frame, both consciously and subconsciously, with descriptors such as genius, master and masterwork.” In Ewell’s jaundiced assessment, Beethoven’s Ninth Symphony is “no more a masterpiece” than Esperanza Spalding’s 12 Little Spells (click the links and judge for yourself). The status of Beethoven’s Ninth is purely, he argues, a product of music theory’s “white-male frame” which “obfuscates race and gender.”

Ewell’s attack on Beethoven is an adjunct of this broader hostility to classical music’s “white racial frame” which, he insists, reinforces the hierarchy of White male composers, and “works in concert with patriarchal structures to advantage whiteness and maleness while disadvantaging POC and non-males.” This frame purportedly encompasses Western tonality itself (with its major-minor harmony and its equal-tempered scale) which is assumed to be the “master” language. Ewell even regards the Gregorian calendar as “white racial framing writ large,” insisting “no one can deny the racial element behind how the world now understands the linear and cyclic nature of time.”

Phillip Ewell

In an article for the journal Music Theory Online entitled “Music Theory and the White Racial Frame,” Ewell argues that “music theory is white [it is]” and the discipline is undergirded by a deep-seated ideology of White supremacy calculated to thwart Black and Brown (but strangely not East Asian) achievement in classical music. The main target of Ewell’s critique is the early twentieth-century music theorist Heinrich Schenker (1868–1935) who initiated the parsing of musical structures into foreground, middle-ground and background to tease out the tonal formulas that underpin large-scale movements. Drawing on poststructuralist critiques of Western civilization, Ewell claims this kind of score-driven analysis of musical works as part of Western musicology (what he dubs the “drive to scientificize music analysis”) represents an effort to “shore up whiteness in music theory’s white frame” and to insulate “whiteness from potential criticism.” In attacking Schenker (who was an Austrian Jew), Ewell inadvertently strayed into forbidden fields of inquiry and faced unexpectedly fierce blowback and accusations of “Black anti-Semitism.”

Ewell’s “white racial frame” purportedly extends to musical education where, in the most commonly used theory textbooks in the United States, only 1.63% of musical examples come from non-White composers. This is also problematic for Linda Shaver-Gleason because studying a particular piece “reaffirms its canonical status; enshrining it in a textbook is deeming it worthy of study.” Constantly referencing White composers “reinforces the idea that they’re the ones who deserve the most respect, as if to say, ‘Marvel at the many techniques Mozart used so perfectly!’” Ethan Hein, a (presumably Jewish) doctoral fellow in music education at NYU, likewise decries the stubbornness of music teachers in teaching “European-descended” classical music over that of “music descending from the vernacular traditions of the African diaspora.” Orienting music education towards the European classical tradition, an “implicit racial ideology,” is, he declares, “insidious” in its “affirmations of Whiteness.”

In 2020, college-level music pedagogy responded to Black Lives Matter by “dramatically reconsidering which composers and musical traditions we do and don’t discuss in the classroom.” Similar dynamics were at work within other musical institutions. The Metropolitan Opera, upon cancelling its 2020–21 season, announced that it would begin its next season with Black composer Terence Blanchard’s Fire Shut Up in My Bones, the first opera by a Black composer to appear on the Met’s stage. Despite such gestures, for Slate journalist Chris White, musicians, academics, and teachers still “have a lot of work ahead to confront the racist and sexist history of classical music.”

Music theory’s white racial frame is also sustained, according to Ewell, by the “citational chain” of white men citing other white men in the musicological literature. He wants to break this chain “in which whiteness begets whiteness and maleness begets maleness.” Meanwhile, Ewell’s own utterly conventional and establishment beliefs are the unreflective product of his engagement with a group of predominantly Jewish critical race and gender theorists: he borrowed the term “white racial frame” from Harvard sociology professor Joe Feagin. Arguing that the entire Western art music tradition is inherently White supremacist, Ewell advocates “overthrowing the existing structure and building a new one that would accommodate non-white music a priori [prior to listening to it??] no reaching for ‘inclusion’ necessary because non-white composers would already be there.”

Beethoven and the “New Musicology”

Ewell postures as an outsider bravely challenging sinister norms entrenched in Western musicology when, in reality, his perspective has been utterly conventional since the advent of the “New Musicology” in late 1980s — when Cultural Marxists to a significant extent overran the discipline. Musicology was one of the last frontiers for poststructuralism and critical theory which had already infested most of the humanities and social sciences by the early 1980s. The New Musicology was founded by the Jewish-American critic and musicologist Joseph Kerman (born Zukerman) whose journalist father William Zukerman (1885–1961) was a prominent figure in the Jewish media and author of the 1937 book The Jew in Revolt: The Modern Jew in the World Crisis.

A key figure in the ascent of the “New Musicology” was Susan McClary whose 1991 book Feminine Endings: Music, Gender and Sexuality is considered a trailblazing text for the movement. McClary gained fame and notoriety for her feminist “analysis” of the first movement of Beethoven’s Ninth Symphony, where she claimed: “The point of recapitulation in the first movement of the Ninth is one of the most horrifying in music, as the carefully prepared cadence is frustrated, damming up energy which finally explodes in the throttling murderous rage of a rapist incapable of attaining release.” This risible statement was an elaboration of her belief the Western musical convention of sonata form is inherently sexist, misogynistic and imperialistic: that “tonality itself — with its process of instilling expectations and subsequently withholding promised fulfilment until climax — is the principle musical means during the period from 1600 to 1900 for arousing and channeling desire.” The primary “masculine” key (or first subject group) is said to represent the male self, and the secondary “feminine” key (or second subject group) represents the “other,” a territory to be explored and conquered, assimilated into the self and stated in the tonic home key.

Virtually all Cultural Marxist critiques of Western classical music fall back on these kind of entirely speculative metaphors. While purporting to offer additional insight into music, the New Musicology systematically imposes an anti-White male ideology on its subject, and, in this endeavor, happily discards all standards of proof and evidence. The conceit that, before the advent of the New Musicology, the discipline was limited to the rigid boundaries of empiricism and positivism is false; awareness of the context and reception of music has always been a core topic of musicology. There was, however, also a belief in purely musical elements and in the value of studying them. The problem with such “objective” technical analysis, for the likes of McClary and Ewell, is that it invariably leads to “White supremacist” conclusions about the relative quality of different musical traditions. The “problematic dimension” of analyzing “music as simply music,” McClary notes, is that people inevitably point to Western classical music “as evidence of the superiority of European and European-descended people, which marginalizes the rest of the world and, also, minority groups in the U.S.”

Constructing Beethoven as Black

The main alternative to the Cultural Marxist deconstruction (and proposed anti-White reconstruction) of the Western musical canon, has been attempts by Blacks to appropriate Beethoven for themselves. Given Beethoven’s status as the archetypical musical genius, it is unsurprising that aggrieved Blacks have, since the early twentieth century, attempted to propagate the myth that Beethoven had some African ancestry. The basis for this entirely spurious claim was the composer’s slightly swarthy complexion, and the fact part of his family traced its roots to Flanders, which was, for a period, under Spanish monarchical rule. Because Spain had a longstanding historical connection to North Africa through the Moors, a degree of blackness supposedly trickled down to the great composer — this despite the fact the Moors as an ethnic group weren’t even Black.

The myth was eagerly disseminated by Jamaican “historian” Joel Augustus Rogers (1880–1966) in works like Sex and Race (1941—44), the two-volume World’s Great Men of Color (1946–47), 100 Amazing Facts About the Negro (1934), Five Negro Presidents (1965), and Nature Knows No Color Line (1952). Rogers, whose intellectual rigor was basically non-existent, claimed that Beethoven — in addition to Thomas Jefferson, Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, Robert Browning, and several popes, among others — was genealogically African and thus Black. Despite being thoroughly debunked, the myth still lingers in contemporary culture: in 2007 Nadine Gordimer published a short story collection called Beethoven Was One-Sixteenth Black: And Other Stories. The determination, contrary to all available evidence, to make Beethoven Black is, of course, a desperate attempt to make the composer and his oeuvre a glorious symbol of Black accomplishment.

A pearl of wisdom from Jamaican historian Joel Augustus Rogers (1880–1966)

Otherwise sympathetic commentators have cautioned that such efforts are self-defeating, merely serving to treat the Western canon as fundamental and all other styles as deviations from this norm, thus reinforcing “the notion that of classical music as a universal standard and something that everyone should aspire to appreciate.” Trying to make Beethoven Black and desperately scouring the historical records for examples of non-Whites who wrote symphonies is to accept “a white-centric perspective that presents symphonies as the ultimate human achievement in the arts.”

Among those routinely cited by those desperate to prove the racial diversity of the Western art music tradition are the mixed-race composers Chevalier de Saint George, Samuel Coleridge-Taylor and George Bridgetower. These figures are remembered solely because they were non-White, not because of the excellence of their compositions. Beethoven personally knew Bridgetower, a talented violinist whose father was from the West Indies. Indeed, Bridgetower was the original dedicatee of one of Beethoven’s most celebrated violin sonatas. Beethoven called it the “mulatto sonata” after Bridgetower (before the word took on a more pejorative sense) and the pair gave the first performance but fell out soon afterwards, whereupon Beethoven renamed the piece for another violinist, Rudolphe Kreutzer.


Classical music, like other aspects of Western culture, has been a casualty of the anti-White diversity mania that now infests Western intellectual life. The Cultural Marxist critique of classical music (and of Beethoven) wallows in bad faith arguments and cognitive dissonance: Western classical music is nothing exceptional, yet cannot be invoked to praise White people because this necessarily implies the inferiority of other races; a White supremacist conspiracy thwarts Black and Brown achievement in the genre, but utterly fails to prevent East Asian interest and success; Black composers have written symphonies (and, indeed, Beethoven himself was Black), yet the Western classical music tradition is inherently White supremacist and needs radical deconstruction.

Ultimately, the reason the classical music canon (and Beethoven’s status as a titan of European civilization) is so keenly resented by anti-White activists, is because the gap in civilizational attainment it underscores is an embarrassing affront to regnant egalitarian assumptions. Western art music (with Beethoven as its leading exponent) stands as a glaring testament to the pre-eminence of European high culture, and implicitly of the race responsible for it. The attacks on Beethoven in 2020 are yet another example of warfare waged against White people through the construction of culture.

Brenton Sanderson is the author of Battle Lines: Essays on Western Culture, Jewish Influence and Anti-Semitism, available here and here.

[1] Jan Swafford, The Vintage Guide to Classical Music: An Indispensable Guide for Understanding and Enjoying Classical Music (Knopf, 1993), 184-85.

[2] Romain Rolland, Beethoven the Creator (Rolland Press, 2008)

[3] Jan Swafford, Beethoven: Anguish and Triumph (Faber, 2015), 760.

[4] Lewis Lockwood, Beethoven: The music and the Life (Norton, 2005), 533.

87 replies
    • Pierre de Craon
      Pierre de Craon says:

      “… a fitting tribute”? More like exhibit A for the prosecution’s case that the core insight of the past thirty years is that the West has been subverted by a Culture of Critique.

      • Julius Skoolafish
        Julius Skoolafish says:

        Bit harsh – So you’d prefer her to play Stravinsky?

        Which movement from Rites?
        • Ritual of Abduction 7:14
        • Ritual of the Two Rival Tribes 12:03
        • Mystic Circle of the Young Girls 21:11
        • The Naming and Honoring of the Chosen One 24:02
        • Ritual Action of the Ancestors 26:28
        • Sacrificial Dance 30:05

        • Pierre de Craon
          Pierre de Craon says:

          She’s welcome to play Stravinsky or the music of any other great composer so long as she isn’t spitting on it and distorting it with her self-indulgently ugly and moronic “interpretation.” She has not learned from Beethoven; she is showing her hatred and contempt for him. She is a true product of a Judaized upbringing.

          What precisely do you think you have demonstrated by listing the names of several of the sections of “The Rite of Spring”? What you show me in doing so is that you fail to see that, in its aesthetic construction and expressive purpose, the music is the twentieth-century equivalent of Mozart’s G minor Symphony.

          And no, what I said was in no way harsh. That you fail to see the problem with what you write is indicative of whose agenda you serve, however unwittingly, in the present struggle.

  1. Daniel Charlemagne III
    Daniel Charlemagne III says:

    The pure hatred from these “others” due to their and their ethnical “brothers and sisters” inferiority is totally disgusting.

    Their filth surely proves that the mere closeness to white geniuses and white people our culture and accomplishments fills them with enormous hatred and manipulative and fraudulent behavior. Which just proves the obvious giant issues problems and huge weaknesses in having the multiracial society at large.

    Beethoven was surely genius, sure he was maybe a bit more boring than Bach and Mozart.

    And all these dudes were at least 99 % white or the like if not 100 % white. And most of them died struggling (Mozart probably poisoned because of his genius and being so white). Bach worked as a church organist, a teacher of choirs and at a beer-café and he never saw any fame. So calling them privileged is just utterly disgusting and such a huge lie… The sadness I feel for the state of these “people” who write such garbage as the cultural marxists is large.

    And finally why is white supremacy a bad word. People can be supreme in different ways. Thee is white supremacy in invention, music, art and technology. These “bad white men” who invented the internet, computer, train and airplane hey or the composers mentioned or Jesus (certainly white and male) or Shakespeare or Maxim Gorkij or Jack Kerouac or Monet or Picasso or the dutch masters.

    And by that said I also welcome more white female accomplishments. Go women!

    So my point is blacks can be supreme in their cultural expressions (although they tend to steal and depend on white technology), so can whites and yellow and so on.

    People from different ethnical groups being supreme is not an issue from my point of view.

    Are whites then the most supreme. Probably, at least from our perspective. And I don’t see an issue with it quite the contrary.

    With almost every TV show being centered around at least one black main character or homosexuality with basketball and “hip hop” and pop music with jews stealing songs and give it to the artists of their choice and reggae ton and the like and whites under 18 being a minority. What we need is white genius this is our forte our strength.

    And our enemies know it.

    Document of elders of Zion: “we (organized jews) must work against geniuses they are our greatest threat” or something similar. Regardless of the origin of that text, they know…

    • Lucius Vanini
      Lucius Vanini says:

      “Beethoven….maybe a bit more BORING than Bach and Mozart”??? HAHAHAHAHA!!!

      Wow–what you’ve just said about yerself, hickie–and it ain’t purdy!

      • Daniel Charlemagne III
        Daniel Charlemagne III says:

        Yeah and em all better than Vivaldi, is he #4?

        Or does Shostakovitj come before.

        It’s all unique expressions.

        And Beethoven did not have the catchiness of Mozart or Bach. Just a fact. But he was more perfect but yeah more boring.

        I did not say boring, just MORE boring than the other two geniuses mentioned.

        And also as for you using slang. People from all over the world visit this site and your choice of wording is probably not understandable to many.

        Mozart and Bach tend to get people more excited.

        Is Vivaldi more fun than Beethoven, maybe, maybe not.

        And I did study classical music a bit. I do know of it’s origin in Italy. But hey actually, most of that stuff was not that catchy except for Vivaldi.

        And have you seen the nose of Mozart, or Grieg for that matter. From a race science standpoint what does it indicate to you?

        • Lucius Vanini
          Lucius Vanini says:

          DC III
          Outside of “hick” I didn’t use slang in my response, only spelled words to correspond to how hicks might pronounce them; and my doing so expressed my contempt for your saying Beethoven is boring…. If only you’d said “Beethoven can be more boring TO MY TASTE than Mozart and Bach,” you’d have gotten no reply from me, though I might still have felt contempt for your taste.

          And your reply to me has given me a fresh reason for contempt. You say “I did not say boring, just MORE boring than the other two geniuses mentioned.” How the hell can someone be more boring than others WITHOUT being boring in some or other degree?

          LvB boring? That’s YOUR opinion, Jack. It’s not mine or a great multitude’s. There’s a reason why, as the article above accurately states, “Beethoven is the most performed composer in the repertoire.”

          Ludwig van B. is to me an utterly overwhelming phenomenon.

          What, do you suppose I suspect that Mozart’s and Grieg’s noses indicate they were Jews? LOL. Stay away from museums where statues and busts of the ancient Greeks and Romans abound, or you’ll conclude that the said Europeans were Jewish rather than what they were, the cream of Indo-European glory.

          • Daniel Charlemagne III
            Daniel Charlemagne III says:

            I did use therm “a bit more boring”.

            When reading what you wrote, I have to say mo wording was a bit incorrect. I should have stated “a bit less fun”.

            The wording I use could be interpreted as it being boring which was not my intention.

            And just because something is more boring than something else does not make it boring. It’s just not as exciting I suppose my point was.

            If you look at on a scale where 100 is totally fun and not boring at all and catchy, then I do think Beethowen would score lower than the others mentioned.

            I also stated he was in some ways more perfectionist.

            Also did you see the nose of Vivaldi, especially the chariacture on wikipedia. They might have been PARTLY 100 % jewish. Not many Italians or germans have this kinda big noses, but it does exist. Whether or not they have some kinda jewish heritage I don’t know, neither do you.

            If it was so, and they would be 100 % white jews for example i.e. did not have middle eastern genetics or african genetics in what way would that be bad or something you would be against?

  2. Ricardo Duchesne
    Ricardo Duchesne says:

    I sent Phillip Ewell my article, “White Men Responsible For Almost All The Greatest Human Accomplishments”,

    He replied that he is a highly respected musicologist who does not take seriously any claims about European greatness. Soon after I got replies from his followers; here is a sample: “White supremacy is deeply ignorant. When we know that humanity’s greatest accomplishments come from Asia, Africa & the Middle East. You could easily study this and not be a willfully ignorant nimrod. But that is a lazy ass dumb white man. You are a shallow weak human who is astoundingly dumb & wrong. That is your burden to bear. You don’t have to be so dumb and wrong, you don’t have to chose to be so willfully ignorant. You could do better. But you don’t and you won’t so you will forever be dumb, awful, lazy and wrong. ”

    Nothing irritates non-whites and leftists more than white greatness. Blacks have accomplished very little in human history, and mostly thanks to white assistance.

    Whenever you have an argument about white accomplishments, send them a list like this:

    White Men are responsible for 100% of the Greatest Modern Inventions
    Printing press
    Nuclear Energy
    Steam Engine
    Mechanized Clock
    Oil Drilling
    Optical Lenses
    Semiconductor Electronics
    Turbine Engine
    Plant Breeding
    Assembly Line

    • James j O'Meara
      James j O'Meara says:

      A minor point, perhaps, but the wokester referring to “an ignorant nimrod” is laughably stupid. Nimrod was a great bowsman in Genesis, and vaguely associated with the Tower of Babel. Israelis proudly call their children “Nimrod” to this day. However, in a Bugs Bunny cartoon, Bugs calls Elmer Fudd “a little Nimrod” because, of course, he is a hunter with a rifle. When America was Christian, people knew their Bible. But morons (or as Bugs would say, “maroons”) like this have come to understand “Nimrod” to mean “dumbass.” Thus does this “critic” reveal himself as truly uncultured.

    • Carolyn Yeager
      Carolyn Yeager says:

      And if you look deeper to the exact inventor(s) of each of the items on that list, the vast majority are Germans, Italians, English, and Americans from those same bloodlines. A few French and Scandinavians. Not just White but specific whites. Not just European but western, northern Europeans.

      Again I say, “white” is a racially meaningless term, although it seems to be a useful social term.

    • Lucius Vanini
      Lucius Vanini says:

      You forgot:

      laser tech.
      satellite tech
      photoreconnaissance satellite
      communication satellite
      light bulbs
      space stations
      the history book
      dialysis machine
      audio cassette
      phonograph records
      compact disk
      VCR, VHS
      diving bell
      internal combustion
      stealth tech
      infrared tech
      dental drill
      weather satellite
      solar panel
      space probe
      radium therapy
      machine gun
      washing machine
      traffic light
      fountain pen
      forensic criminology
      suspension bridge
      cantilever bridge
      underwater tube tunnel
      clothes dryer
      automatic transmission
      electric trolley
      radiocarbon dating
      fire extinguisher
      word processor
      And oh yes–peanut butter (Marcellus Gilmore Edson, US Patent 306727, 1884–19 years before George Washington Carver is SAID to have invented it….). Uh, just to name a few more.

      Blacks? Name a black
      * ancient history book
      * famous philosopher–or any philosopher prior to contact with Eurasians (Arabians and
      * math theorem
      * Nobel Laureate for science
      * scientific theory of note
      * technology important to the world
      * system of actual writing–with logograms, not ideograms–prior to contact with Eurasians

      Blacks are the ethnic/genetic mega-cluster (some would say “race”) with the lowest average IQ, and in all multiethnic lands they INVARIABLY are lowest in average IQ.

      And the ancients wouldn’t have been surprised! What science and experience confirmed, the old guys had already observed:

      “We know that blacks are the least intelligent and discerning of mankind, and the least capable of understanding the consequences of actions.” –Al-Jahiz, Arabian scholar, 776-868 CE

      “Those who are incapable of attaining to supreme religious values include the black-colored people….Their level among existing things is below that of a man and above that of a monkey.” –Moses ben Maimon, 1135-1204 CE, Judaism’s most revered philosopher

      “The negro doesn’t differ from an animal in anything except the fact that his hands have been lifted from the earth. Many have seen that the ape is more capable of being trained than the negro, and more intelligent.” –Nasir al-Din al-Tusi, 1201-1274 CE, Persian Shia scholar and Grand Ayatollah

      Well, maybe these fellas went a bit too far; but no honest, informed and thoughtful person can seriously doubt that blacks are a relatively simple phenomenon, a product of a different evolutionary path. It seems that remaining in Sub-Sahara isolated them from such evolutionary pressures as compelled us Eurasians to acquire extra aptitudes. Necessity is the mother of invention.

      I love the statement wherewith Nobel Laureate, discoverer of DNA James Watson became a martyr for soothsaying, namely–

      “There is no firm reason to anticipate that the intellectual capacities of people geographically separated in their evolution should prove to have evolved identically. Our wanting to reserve equal powers of reason as some universal heritage of humanity will not be enough to make it so.”

      OF COURSE blacks will feel small and dependent in relation to us, and of course they will hate us for it; and since they’re low in intelligence and can’t get revenge by doing well socioeconomically, as the also non-Caucasian East Asians have no problem doing (since THEY are high in intelligence–indeed uppermost in average IQ), they must express hatred in animalistic street assaults–hence the literally millions of black-on-White violent crimes per decade.

      No surprise either that their “music” is typically characterized by a monotonous, mindless beat…. The titan Ludwig van B. and his immortal Eroica, Fifth, Pastoral and Choral–and that Seventh, the “Apotheosis of the Dance”–seem to belong to a different Universe!


  3. Alph
    Alph says:

    It’s hard to blame coloreds for resenting Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Verdi, et. al. After all, the superiority of their achievements is so astounding, so far above anything produced by non-Europeans. Indeed this could be said about nearly every field of human endeavor, from all the arts to science to engineering to…. No wonder they burn with envy.

    • Peter
      Peter says:

      Unfortunately, I think that is about to change. Asians are high achievers and if the white countries let themselves be run into the ground while Asians work to improve their countries and their lives, Asia will be “great again” and Europe and the USA will not.

  4. traducteur
    traducteur says:

    I like Beethoven’s piano sonatas and chamber music, but his symphonies are full of bombast. Brahms was much greater as a composer.

    • Pierre de Craon
      Pierre de Craon says:


      A reminder: marking territory by urinating on a tree or fire hydrant works better for dogs than people.

  5. Pierre de Craon
    Pierre de Craon says:

    Alfred North Whitehead opened chapter 2 of “Science and the Modern World” (1925) with these sentences: “The science of pure mathematics, in its modern developments, may claim to be the most original creation of the human spirit. Another claimant for this position is music.” Whichever claimant one tends to favor, the prime problem for scoffers, as delineated by Brenton Sanderson, is the same in either case: it is a creation of the human spirit that has reached its ennobling heights almost entirely thanks to white men. No other applicants need apply.

    Ultimately, perhaps the only thing that is truly noteworthy about the “triggering” quotient in Beethoven’s music is that people who hate all things white, Western, Christian, or any combination of the three recognize the music’s transformative power so clearly that they are compelled to lie as aggressively and unashamedly as they do so as to belittle and degrade the music and explain away its intuited significance. I have no doubt that in the nightmare tyranny soon to begin—before the present decade is over is my bet, barring something akin to direct divine intervention—this music will suffer early and severe proscription. Few, alas, of our brothers and sisters will even notice, and fewer still will care.

    • Curmudgeon
      Curmudgeon says:

      I’m going to add my broken record comment to yours.
      Classical music became what it is, because of the instruments used to play it. There is no other culture on the planet that has invented so many instruments. Instruments like the piano and harpsichord are mechanical wonders. Brass instruments are another example. That is not to say other cultures have not developed or invented complex musical instruments, only that those numbers are dwarfed by the instruments created by Europeans.
      All the best in 2021, Pierre.

      • Pierre de Craon
        Pierre de Craon says:

        Et cum spiritu tuo, my friend.

        An addendum. “Broken record,” like “clockwise” and “counterclockwise,” is a richly compendious locution from an analog world that looks to be on its last legs. As the significance of the loss of a referential context for all three of these very useful terms (and many others besides) ought to be evident to anyone interested in rational communication, how long, I wonder, will it be before the New York Times, the Atlantic, or the Smithsonian Institution declares them all convicted of having a white-supremacist taint? Or viewed from a related perspective, how many more stages of wokeness are we from the mandated adoption of Newspeak?

        • Pierre de Craon
          Pierre de Craon says:

          Without a doubt! And as you probably know, it’s still a work in progress. As Stravinsky wrote with regard to the Danse sacrale from the “Rite of Spring,” he could hear and play the music long before he was able to figure out a way to write it on staves. More recently, one could also point to some of the notation devised by George Crumb, whose vocal and instrumental markings for attack and expression were absolutely new a generation ago but have since become more or less standard, not only in music whose complexity is comparable to Crumb’s own.

  6. Peter
    Peter says:

    If Beethoven was Jewish I suspect there would not be a problem celebrating the “Jewish genius”. There has never been a problem celebrating Marx, Einstein or Freud, even though Freud’s theories were not science but a form of ethnic warfare, as Dr. MacDonald explains, and considering the disastrous outcome of communism, including the death of so many millions, maybe Marx does not deserve the accolades he still gets by some. But Jews are not White, as many Jews even say. They originated from the middle east, not Europe. If China was a genuine communist country then maybe it could be held up as a success, but China has huge corporations. I don’t think it’s a communist country.

    In chemistry there is a famous process called the “Haber-Bosch” process. It is named after the two German scientists that developed it, but Fritz Haber was also Jewish. He developed the scientific process and Bosch developed the engineering process that allows production to be done on a large scale. Both men are considered to have made a great achievement and both received the Nobel Prize. According to Wikipedia, some people now refer to it just the “Haber” process. If that is so, I wonder if that is only the case in English speaking countries. I say that in part because I also read that an American engineering society recognized the engineering aspect of the Haber-Bosch process as being a great engineering achievement but the society recognized the work of both Haber and Bosch, even though Bosch is generally recognized for the engineering work, not Haber. I am not a chemist and I’m not an expert on what each man did, so maybe there is an explanation for this but I suspect if the science was being recognized, Carl Bosch would not be honored.

    The Jews fight tooth and nail for recognition for Jews and I have seen the work of Germans often diminished, I suspect also by Jews. In 1938 Otto Hahn discovered nuclear fission and this is what started the atomic bomb projects. Hahn received the Nobel Prize in 1944 for his achievement. But his colleague of many years, Lise Meitner also played a crucial role. Her work explained exactly what happened in Hahn’s experiment. But she did not receive a Nobel Prize. Meitner left for Sweden a year before Hahn performed his experiment because she was Jewish. Jews attacked Hahn and bitterly complained (and probably still do) that Meitner should have also received the Nobel Prize, I have also seen the account by a prominent German-American Jew whose description of the work of Hahn and Meitner suggests Hahn didn’t know what he was doing and Meitner explained everything. But the Nobel Prize committee didn’t agree. Similarly, Wilhelm Roentgen discovered the X-ray. This was considered a great achievement but the way he discovered it was by mere accident according to at least one description I read many years ago. He was in his lab and had his arm in a certain position and according to the description, he could see his own bones and that is how he discovered the X-ray. It was by mere luck. I also remember many years ago when they said on a news program that Beethoven was black, or part black and before that they often said Beethoven was Dutch. The “van” in “van Beethoven” shows Beethoven had a Dutch relative somewhere in his background so they made him Dutch. These are examples that I have seen of bias and of Jews complaining about not getting enough recognition. Even with all the recognition they get (and it’s so important to them) the Jews can be so petty and not be embarrassed at all.

    • Martin Degaul
      Martin Degaul says:

      Peter, in what way was Freud an attack on christian whites, or ethnic warfare as you describe it. And where did Kevin McDonald write about it and what was his main point. It was some years ago that I read his most famous book at the time and at the moment I don’t have the money to spend on books and I don’t think his books are at the libraries in my city, so a refreshment is appreciated.

      If something his theories are a way of treating traumas. Sure they may be a bit narrow in scope, since trauma can be carried through generations and trauma can cause gene changes. Apparently our genes are changing quite often through mutation or whatever you wanna call it.

      And surely Freuds ideas are seen as un PC now because they may for example explain homosexuality as an effect of sexual abuse (/rape, homosexual rape) or the like or similar as is also the case with pedophilia and the like and so on.

      And though freud though most mental illnesses were caused by sexual trauma initially he later changed it to other factors also.

      And if you gonna call Freud not a scientist, neither is Kevin McDonal is he. It’s different ideas and concepts but the methods are similar although Kevin McDonald look at groups (and also tend to use lately genetics and couple these with his theories, but often when his books come out there are news in the genetic DNA field that changes that field and the like…) and Freud looked at many individuals that he treated. And what he came up with was based on the results, that came from the method of psychoanalysis which includes the interpretation of dreams and “wrong sayings” and the like for the patient to find his or her traumas.

      Have you read anything by Freud?

      In what way would a method to treat traumas be ethnic warfare?

      • Peter
        Peter says:

        Dr. MacDonald is a scientist. A scientist is someone with the qualifications that uses the scientific method in his research, something Freud did not do. He and his associates had their detractors thrown out of their group.

        This video features Dr. MacDonald, Dr. E Michael Jones and other people discussing different Jews (not just Freud) using what they claim is science (even when it isn’t) to attack the dominant group. First up is Dr. MacDonald discussing Freud. Dr. Jones states “psychoanalysis is a form of sexual liberation as political control”.

        • Martin Degaul
          Martin Degaul says:

          I try to avoid youtube, due to google excessively spying on people.

          In what way did Freud want psychoanalysis to be used for sexual liberation?

          I assume you are referring to Freuds ideas about sexual repression causing issues.

          Did he argue for free sex, or sexual liberation because of this?

          One may argue indeed that sexual liberation can case popular males to exchange female partners a lot, which makes them not settle down and then causes less white children or similar. And sure Freud did coin the term sexual repression.

          I assume also there can be a natural way of acting for dominant males to spread their seed, their genetics, in effect a Darwian way of acting. Should we pretend this is not so?

          But it surely does not spread genes much these days with contraceptives such as the condom available and the like and so on.

          Other than that I find your answer such as many statements about Freud among people who are critical of jewish group strategies, to be very vague and unprecise.

          So, please inform us in more detail…

          • Peter
            Peter says:

            I understand your concern about Youtube but the video explains things. It’s your decision if you want to watch it or not.

          • Ned J. Casper
            Ned J. Casper says:

            Both Marx and Freud published statements critical of Judaism and to some extent of Jews in general. Yet both communism and psycho-analysis have attracted Jews as leading participants, for various reasons. These issues are quite complex.

          • Peter
            Peter says:

            Too complex for you apparently. Freud strongly identified with his Jewishness and strongly opposed Germans and the west. It’s explained in the video very well. You don’t like the facts, so you ignore them.

    • John McAlliseter
      John McAlliseter says:

      You talk about jews originating in the middle east.

      Sure about 75 % of jews have middle easter background, so a majority of them do. But 25 % of them have no middle eastern background whatsoever. It’s actually more common that they are mixed with africans although to a much lesser degree.

      It’s just that the info europeans moved to the Middle East, east Asia and India (their cats system probably a way to try to keep whiteness alive so to speak).

      They found skeletons of lotsa people in Israel where DNA test showed they had blue eyes. Also there is a lot of mixing with original Italians (from before many Italians mixed with arabs and blacks). So I suspect most “jews” or Israelites were initially white (Into Europan and Italian) and then the mixed gradually with other ethnical groups most of them. Which is probably why they have such a higher IQ than other people in the region.

      So GOD said about these original white Israelites that their nation which in effect means their people was like a bucket of water and the drops spilling were equal to all the other nations on earth.

      The fact they mixed although their religion forbids it (the christian and jewish religion thinks its a great idea to kill a jew that marries an arab woman) and so on. Jewish kings called blacks the doomed race and Jesus said blacks were animals with feet hands and clothes…

      The Jesus was also critical of many jews, maybe because they mixed.

      If India and Israel shows us something it’s that when you have different ethnical groups in the same area the will mix sooner or later…

      But the first and second temple, like dude they were built (or planned and designed) bu pure whites.

      And also probably the elite in old Egypt was white, but they were probably a smaller group. They did DNA tests in a pharaoh which showed him to be 99,8 % wester white (or northern white or east west or whatever).

      Are there any pure 100 % white jews left that does not have other issues, maybe a few who knows, The DNA test folks aint telling us. Probably most of the white Israelites mixed with other whites, which was encouraged by christianity, which was in effect probably a way for GOD to save his chosen people and their special and their genetics and the like…

      • Peter
        Peter says:

        I have heard Jews say that Jews are not White on various occasions. I don’t know of any Whites from any other group that say that. Jews in northern Europe were generally darker than the rest of the population. If a Jew had lighter hair or blue eyes it was from intermarriage with a European. Ashkenazi Jews may have also become lighter after living in Europe for thousands of years and occasionally intermarrying with Europeans. Dr. MacDonald has made the point that DNA analysis shows that Jews and Palestinians share very similar DNA.

        Here are two examples of many in where Jews say they are not white.

        Hila Hershkovitz in the Jerusalem Post:
        “Jews are not white. People who try to argue otherwise are not only abrogating history and denying our people’s authentic identity, they are in fact (even if unintentionally) also practicing a form of Western imperialism, as nobody has the right to superimpose an artificial Western identity on a people with an ancient Middle Eastern-tribal identity.”

        Susan Sonrag wrote:
        “The truth is that Mozart, Pascal, Boolean Algebra, Shakespeare, parliamentary government, baroque churches, Newton, the emancipation of women, Kant, Marx, and Balanchine ballets don’t redeem what this particular civilization has wrought upon the world. The white race is the cancer of human history. ” (Partisan Review, Winter 1967, p. 57)

        “Sontag lived her intellectual life entirely within a Jewish world. Like the other Jewish intellectuals reviewed in The Culture of Critique, she did not identify as a White European and she saw them as an evil out group.”

        Read the article for Freud and other Jews distinguishing themselves from Whites.

        • John Mcallister
          John Mcallister says:

          Like todays jews are on the average like 30 % Italian at least on the female bloodline.

          Italians are darker than Scandinavians, so were the old greek and so on.

          They were still white.

          And I respect Mr. Kevin McDonald and his research and work, but he is not a DNA scientist or the like he is a professor of psychology or similar right.

          Regarding the Italian heritage of jews:

          ”more than 80% of Ashkenazi mtDNAs had their origins thousands of years ago in Western Europe, during or before Biblical times—and in some cases even before farming came to that part of the continent some 7500 years ago”

          ”recent studies of DNA from the cell nucleus have also shown “a very close similarity between Ashkenazi Jews and Italians.”

          Blue eyed Israelis:

          Actually a lot of Jews are more lighter skinned than many Italians. And I specifically wrote than todays jews, 75 % of them have origin in the Middle East. I was talking about the other 25 %.

          Among the jews that are part arab/ middle eastern, I think they are on the average 11 % arab.

          The jews that are part african tend to be about 4 % african:

          My point being they mixed with other ethnical groups most of them. Hence their genetics changed.

          I mentioned jewish kings called subsahariann africans the doomed race. I also mentioned that GOD thought it be a great idea that a Israelite who married an arab to be killed with his wife (the sword/spear tent thing you know).

          So my point being there were 100 % white jews back in the days. And GOD encouraged those white jews to marry white Europeans (the when we are baptized we a re not a jew or a greek but one thing, hence they were OK to marry, my interpretation).

          The examples you give and that are also in the article you link to are from arab african mixed jews not original white jews. And they are just the opinion of like 3 or 4 jews not all of them and certainly not the 100 % white ones, which if there are any left are probably less than 5 % of the jewish population.

          I also write that Jesus may have been dissapointed with a majority of the jews because many of them mixed and they changed their character changed.

          I also think a lot of white jews 100 % so, just left the group partly to keep their white heritage alive and kicking so to speak.

          As for Feud, that is one example of what he said. I was asking for specific things in his theories that are anti christian white.

          The jewish elite was very much against africans and arabs and race mixing, so was and is GOD. It was and is their religion to not mix with those ethnical groups. Still happened to quite a degree.

          And as for Kevin McDonalds writings on the matter it was written before this newer DNA research was done.

    • J. Mcallister
      J. Mcallister says:

      You talk about jews originating in the middle east.

      Sure about 75 % of jews have middle easter background, so a majority of them do. But 25 % of them have no middle eastern background whatsoever. It’s actually more common that they are mixed with africans although to a much lesser degree.

      It’s just that the indo europeans moved to the Middle East, east Asia and India (their cats system probably a way to try to keep whiteness alive so to speak).

      They found skeletons of lotsa people in Israel where DNA test showed they had blue eyes. Also there is a lot of mixing with original Italians (from before many Italians mixed with arabs and blacks). So I suspect most “jews” or Israelites were initially white (Indo European and Italian) and then the mixed gradually with other ethnical groups most of them. Which is probably why they have such a higher IQ than other people in the region.

      So GOD said about these original white Israelites that their nation which in effect means their people was like a bucket of water and the drops spilling were equal to all the other nations on earth.

      The fact they mixed although their religion forbids it (the christian and jewish religion thinks its a great idea to kill a jew that marries an arab woman) and so on. Jewish kings called blacks the doomed race and Jesus said blacks were animals with feet hands and clothes…

      The Jesus was also critical of many jews, maybe because they mixed.

      If India and Israel shows us something it’s that when you have different ethnical groups in the same area the will mix sooner or later…

      But the first and second temple, like dude they were built (or planned and designed) bu pure whites.

      And also probably the elite in old Egypt was white, but they were probably a smaller group. They did DNA tests in a pharaoh which showed him to be 99,8 % wester white (or northern white or east west or whatever).

      Are there any pure 100 % white jews left that does not have other issues, maybe a few who knows, The DNA test folks aint telling us. Probably most of the white Israelites mixed with other whites, which was encouraged by christianity, which was in effect probably a way for GOD to save his chosen people and their special and their genetics and the like…

      • Pierre de Craon
        Pierre de Craon says:

        No matter how many ways you spell your name or how many sock-puppet identities you use—Martin Degaul? really?—when they pass through the universal translator, they all come out as Cohen.

        You seem to think that TOO is one of those hip HBD forums where you and guys like you do tail-feather displays for one another. It isn’t.

        • John Mcallsiter
          John Mcallsiter says:

          Dude I’m white and christian, protestant to be more precise.

          Further more there is not a drop of nonwhite blood anywhere in my bloodline to my knowledge, which makes me 100 % white.

          Which is probably more than you can say about many in the etno centric so-called movement.

          I just cited some new DNA research in scientific journals.

          And I certainly know that the mixed, partly non white jews (which you could then say about spaniards or southern Italians, although they do tend to be less mixed) do plan and marry jews into elite families. So do people who are part gypsy or other non whites also I think.

          Regardless I have seen many articles here on this site referring to Freud being anti christian white.

          And I don’t agree with all of Freud’s theories. But I certainly think it would be appropriate for those who claim he was anti white to submit some thoughts and ideas to what specifically is anti white in his ideas. Having read a bit of Freud myself, I found absolutely nothing of the kind. And I am aware of the:

          “we bring the plague” citation and the one mentioned above, but these are not his theories…

          I assume this comes down to, should jews be part of a possible etno state. I think maybe, but I don’t know. As for half jews sure if they adapt to a degree. I assume most jews would not like to live in such a nation anyways. Or maybe they would…

          I guess this kind of think is based on experience. If I have more negative experience with jews, then sure my attitude towards traditional jews will be more negative.

          So in many ways I assume this sorta thing will be more clear in the future.

          But do I disslike all jews, certainly not. But I don’t know any traditional jews. The few I’ve met, some were fine people, some irritating. Some certainly have contributed to the west…

          • Peter
            Peter says:

            I suspect Pierre is right or there is some other motivation for being argumentative instead of learning something. Maybe you use the Scofield Bible in your church, another example of ethnic warfare by Jews, or maybe something else. Both McAllister and Degaul (probably the same person) are either foreigners (Israeli, or eastern Jewish European?) or write with about third grade level English. “Gonna” and “lotsa” are not English words and the General spelled his name “de Gaulle”. Whatever your motivation, you are on the wrong website if you are looking for another cheerleading squad for Jews. You are on a website with highly educated writers, many are PHD’s in their fields and the Jews huge and often harmful role in the USA and the west today and throughout history is examined in a critical way, sometimes very critical and deservedly so.

          • John Mcallsiter
            John Mcallsiter says:


            Again I am NOT Isreali or Eastern European jewish.

            I am Protestant Christian.

            Have I in any way written anything that indicates that there are not jewish people acting in a war against Christian whites?

            Please inform me if so.

            I only informed people of the latest DNA findings which show jews to be a not coherent group ethnically.

            And that their genetics changed over time on the AVEREGE. I also said there were 100 % jews historically. I think there may be a few left BUT I DON’T KNOW MAYBE ALL JEWS ARE now mixed with africans for example.

            Like most spaniards are mixed with North Africans and probably most southern Italians are mixed to some degree with africans and arabs or the others.

            I just made the point I guess looking back, that for those who take a racial point of view, probably the more mixed jews are more actively anti white.

            If ya (or you, if ya wanna be picky) look at the documents of elders of Zion, these supposedly jews have as an end goal that all whites should obey the Hindu religion, Vishnu god or whatever. Hence they were probably gypsy jews most of them (gypsies come from India). Probably not too uncommon given many of them lived in Eastern Europe.

            Personally I also think culture is relevant as well as historic events that shape group strategies and create hysteria.

            Regardless, I am well aware of many jews being aggressively anti white and thieves. Personally I had very bad experiences with people who are part gypsy or sapmi and also Finnish people who are part gypsy (or tattare), but they ain’t a visible minority, since they are mixed and don’t have a religion or names or the like that indicate their ethnicity. They tend to be one step worse than jews though…

            Regardless they tend to be very aggressively anti white also.

            Just like n-wordsers or others.

            Regardless I don’t see what some general has to do with it (deGuillers?), is he French?

            If enough people in an ethnical, or etno-cultural group have attitudes or agendas and those have leading roles it can have very bad effects on society, such as the ongoing taking of our lands and resources as well as the ongoing holocaust on whites.

            This does not mean the common person with the same background share those views or objectives. That would be like saying that because seemingly whiteish kinda politicians in the USA don’t do anything about illegal immigration and other anti white issues, this is the will of the common man or women. Quite the contrary. They just push their own agendas (money and power?).

            I think limiting ones scope to jews is limiting. The commies in Latin America, the drug lords of the region non democracies such as China who want to steal our technology and access to our knowledge are also great threats.

            So is the large mixing with latinos in the USA.

            So is the aggressiveness of many afro’s, subsaharian ones. Their utter primitiveness on the average the extreme aggression the inhuman anti white hatred and so on.

            So is the arabs and their oil money, bribing the EU or working to get our genetics and the like and their religion saying they can lie to non muslims and their amount of rapes of white women and so on. And their religion stating they should invade and crush us.

            Another issue is Hitler and the amount of white guilt his actions caused.

            Another problem is slavery that brough n-wordsers genetics to our lands.

            For example David Lane, connected to the Order said he thought many “common” jews had no clue on what what he called (zionists, or ZOG) were doing.

            As for my education, I won’t go into detail here due to secret services probably reading what we write here, but let’s just say I am not uneducated in any way, quite the contrary.

            And I think all I wrote is fully understandable. But when you don’t want to argue, or can’t why not just attack people by calling the “jews” or saying they shouldn’t use any slang or referencing PHD’s.

            Just a way of avoiding to talk about the scientific finding I mentioned.

            And I certainly do not object to critical writing about jews.

            But what about the sellouts like JF Kennedy? The whole political class and media. Is this only a cause by jewish propaganda and media ownership or is it other issues? Why does the alt right have so few followers? Why is there no movement to speak of. Why don’t people just boycott the jews?

          • Peter
            Peter says:

            You are very long winded and argumentative, You contribute nothing but you take up time and space. You don’t like the facts presented by experts so you ignore them.

          • John M
            John M says:


            Just because we don’t agree or you dislike the hard scientific facts I linked to, there is NO reason to be unpolite.

            I mean I could call you an idiot low IQ narrow-minded idiot but I choose not to. So why you been rude hey.

            I think a good tone is better.

        • Ned J. Casper
          Ned J. Casper says:

          It is ridiculous to assert that a contributor must be a “secret Jewish troll” because he writes something you disagree with. David Ashton, for instance, had to put up with this (demonstrable) nonsense from people who could not otherwise answer him.

          Whether “Jews” are “white” is first of all a matter of definition in each case. There are various groups who consider themselves “Jews”, for a start – see e.g. (but not only) Richard Lynn, “The Chosen People” (2011), & Shlomo Sand, “The Invention of the Jewish People” (2010). (There are a few “Indian” and “African” Jews.) There are very many recent DNA studies, notably relevant to Khazar hypothoses, but there is still merit in the old anthroposcopic observations (Hans Guenther, John Baker, Carleton Coon, &c) [Neither Barbara Streisand nor Scarlett Johanssen have a Turko-Mongolid physiognomy!]. The literature is massive, from Jews and “Jews”, and non-Jews whether supposedly “philosemitic” or “antisemitic”, but the following books should not be ignored in any serious study:
          1. Mitchell B. Hart (ed) “Jews & Race” (2011)
          2. John Glad, “Jewish Eugenics” (2011) [useful bibliography]
          3. Andrew G. Bostom, “The Legacy of Islamic Antisemitism” (2020)
          4. Julius Carlebach, “Karl Marx & the Radical Critique of Judaism” (1978)
          5. Jay Geller, “On Freud’s Jewish Body” (2007)
          6. Cesare G. De Michelis, “The Non-Existent Manuscript” (2004) [The book Revilo P. Oliver “wanted” – albeit weak on the French masonic links.]

          • Peter
            Peter says:

            The only person that used the expression “secret Jewish troll” is you. You are a dishonest phony.

          • Pierre de Craon
            Pierre de Craon says:

            Dear Ned,

            You have evidently read and appreciated the work of Léon de Poncins, and for that I salute you and appreciate your participation here. When you fret over the soi-disant sufferings of David Ashton, however, I am left to wonder how you shape your priorities.

            Good fortune and good health in the New Year. You and I and many, many others are going to need both in the cataclysm that has begun.

      • Al Ross
        Al Ross says:

        If importing Jews to White countries shows us anything it is that Jewish intermarriage is certainly not random but rather confined to the White elites. A debilitating and time – honoured strategy.

        • John Mcallsiter
          John Mcallsiter says:

          @Al Ross

          I assume actually there is a combinations here.

          Some jews that have been 100 % white married other whites, probably not based on class.

          Jews tend to be smart and hence become part of the upperclass and hence marry there.

          And last but not least a strategy by some gypsy jews or more mixed (more non white) jews that deliberately marry into the white elite to control it supposedly by genetics.

          These three paths have existed and continue to exist without being connected.

          And the strategy of an satanist occult sect leadership should not reflect negatively on 100 % white jews when they did exist and the like in my opinion.

          But the strategy itself surely makes whites more suspect of many of them I suppose and probably highly so. Anyways…

          Half of jews in western countries now marry non jews.

    • Ned J. Casper
      Ned J. Casper says:

      I have read that Hitler tried to retrieve Meitner “under personal protection” and for substantial reward. Is this true? Some hope! The Nazi treatment of Jews was a self-defeating factor in the contribution by Jewish scientists to the development of the atom bomb for use against Hiroshima if not Berlin.

  7. Buck
    Buck says:

    A bit askew of the current subject, but a good rendering nontheless. . .
    and the reference to the subject remains intact.

    Johann Sebastian Bach ; Toccata & Fugue in Dm, by Sinfonity

  8. TJ
    TJ says:

    Another mix of pop culture with five star musical talent:

    The Good, the Bad and the Ugly – The Danish National Symphony Orchestra (Live)
    64,923,250 views•Jan 26, 2018

  9. Fenria
    Fenria says:

    Really just more proof that whites and blacks have no business existing in the same society. When relations get so bitter and acrimonious that all we can do is tear down each other’s achievements and cultural heroes, then it’s obvious that the time has come for a full separation. Classical music is European in origin and should never be stretched or manipulated to include other racial groups, the same way whites need not make any forays into the rap world.

  10. Rob Bottom
    Rob Bottom says:

    What’s scary is this is actually one of the more reasonable avenues to attack whites. They’re also saying that activities such as reading to children, farming, hiking, camping, cycling, and so on are “too white” and somehow discriminatory. Here’s the Smithsonian magazine complaining that mountain-climbing is too white:

    I like these sorts of attacks, because they make a great case for racial separation. Who in their right mind would ever want to live with these people, who see racial discrimination everywhere and demand reparations for every conceivable imbalance?

    • C.Michael
      C.Michael says:

      A Diversity “problem” in mountain climbing?🙄 Wow!
      An activity that is open to anyone just shows that different peoples have different interests, only in Jevv controlled and highly MONITORED 21st century America.🤦🏻‍♂️

  11. Anon
    Anon says:

    This is what happens when tax money funds the arts. Music appreciation can be subjective. Classical music was once supported by wealthy white patrons, and they are a dying breed.

  12. Ned J. Casper
    Ned J. Casper says:

    “The boredom of an empty existence that brought in Negro dancing as the Funeral March of a great Culture” (Oswald Spengler).

    Hip, hop, hooray!

    • TJ
      TJ says:

      . . .The boredom of an empty existence that brought in Negro dancing. . .

      Umm, (((other forces))) were involved. . .

    • Anthony Mcneil
      Anthony Mcneil says:

      Let’s look at that other lovely frame used at hip hop gatherings:

      Hey hooo hey ho hey hoe

      Or does it actually mean they are saying “hello whore”, where ho equals whore in african slang in the USA?

      Is hip hop bad? Quite a lot of it is fun. We whites have to beat em with more advanced and FUN music. And so far whites have failed. Which is probably partly because when any white person does anything new the race mixed and non-white masses are there trying to steal it, trying to beat it with huge budgets compared to whites… The modern western world, whites constantly spied on by race mixed and non whites attempting to steal everything we do ALL THE TIME.

      Otherwise we are DOOMED. No chance of SURVIVAL whatsoever. Total holocaust by the anti whites on us…

      And we don’t have much time.

      We’ll at least we whites invented the computer and the internet and things and I think this relatively new technology can help us survive, despite it for the moment having been partially hijacked by anti whites by them stealing and making successful platforms for communication ONLINE. IRL combined with ONLINE is the solution…

      And once the chains are broken we can go on our journey to our bright future.


      Whether through large changes or constantly working for change through partial changes. Those ways can complement each other who knows what will save us in the end.

      Especially the arabs and subsahariann africans are the huge threat to existence and our children and women.

      • Ned J. Casper
        Ned J. Casper says:

        Jumping about to rhythm can be an entertaining spectacle, less so perhaps than long-limbs taking first prize in boxing bouts, basketball and soccer.

        There are occasionally very brainy black people – Dame Sharon White, for example – but as a “race” the Africans and Caribbeans are generally not so bright.

        We need to keep western civilization going. That is the priority.

  13. Bold Inq.
    Bold Inq. says:

    Unless you know something I don’t, Alex Ross is not Jewish. You mentioned that as well in your excellent two-part Bernstein pieces. I believe he comes from Greek Christian lines, which he used to reference on his popular blog.

    • Pierre de Craon
      Pierre de Craon says:

      If he were not Jewish, the likelihood that he would get a plum post on the Times’s music desk at the age of 24 is disappearingly small. Being a grotesquely public fairy and having connections with important Jews at Harvard and in Manhattan is simply not enough to explain the very rapid advancement he achieved, especially as he was never especially good looking, let alone smart. Absent probative evidence to the contrary, one ought to think of Ross as a Jew. Nothing else has sufficient explanatory power.

      For the record, “The Rest Is Noise” is pretentious middle-brow garbage. That is the considered judgment of a man—moi-même—who knows music better and has a far wider acquaintance with seven centuries’ worth of repertory than Ross now has or is likely to acquire. Unlike, say, Deryck Cooke or even Andrew Porter, Ross has never written about music in a way that manifests a deep understanding of either its aesthetic structure or its communicative power, nor does he produce insights or turns of phrase that help listeners hear things they would otherwise miss or grasp something about music’s essence that will open the doors of comprehension.

      Anyone who can get past the narrative conformism that has been so large a part of the “culture beat” in both newspapers and learned journals since at least the seventies will of necessity admit (at least to himself if not to others) that the sole legitimate aim of criticism is to direct attention to the excellent. That Alex Ross has signally failed to do that is plain to almost everyone except (((our masters))). Whether he has even tried to meet that standard thus isn’t worth an hour’s effort to ascertain.

      • Bold Inq.
        Bold Inq. says:

        I’m not sure I’m comfortable with speculation standing in for truth, Pierre. Ross is a talented writer with a profound love of classical music and has opened up our tradition to thousands of young minds. His politics are cringe and harmful, but he is undeniably “smart” and writes with insight and grace.

        • Pierre de Craon
          Pierre de Craon says:

          I take no more comfort in speculation than you do. When the so-called facts are either unreliably sourced or plainly preposterous, however, one makes do with the best materials at hand.

  14. Hairy Iranian Guy
    Hairy Iranian Guy says:


    I own well over 10k classical music albums. My collection is equivalent to that of a university music library. I’ve taken music theory classes and dabbled in composition. In short, I’ve been listening – addictively – to serious Western music for over three decades.

    What makes serious Western music (SWM) unique is polyphony. No other culture-civilization (CC) has it. Coupled with experimentation and discovery into every facet of music, polyphony has led serious Western music to be the most complicated, advanced, and multifaceted of all the music of other CCs.

    That being stated, I don’t believe that other music from other CCs are not beautiful nor exquisite. In other words, other CCs composed serious music that is equal to, if not greater than, SWM in certain aspects. One example is melody. Serious Iranian music uses quarter tones and its melodies can be both piquant and ineffably melancholic, since the latter sentiment pervades Sufi poetry and said poetry pervades serious Iranian music. It’s difficult to find such spicy and dolorous melodies in SWM. Indeed, serious Iranian music is filled with many tear-jerkers the likes of which cannot be found in SWM since the sound-world of Iran is unique and unmistakable given its pitch-palette and foundation in mystical poetry.

    So let’s give credit where credit is due.

    • Pierre de Craon
      Pierre de Craon says:

      There are boats and planes, I’m told, leaving for Teheran every day. Don’t let the swinging doors hit you in the butt on your way out.

        • Pierre de Craon
          Pierre de Craon says:

          My days of carrying a weapon in combat have been over for fifty years, but I did indeed carry and use one. So I think I have earned the right to fight from a keyboard in my old age. Have you, foreigner? Or is your thing just to ramble on vacuously about your third-rate Iranian tunes?

  15. Joe
    Joe says:

    Generally speaking, most minorities don’t appreciate the majesty of the Great Western Composers because, quite frankly, their minds simply aren’t evolved enough. Just listen (if you can bear it) to the primitive noises that pass for “music” today. Rap is perhaps the most inhuman torture to a cultured person of the musical arts. I am a middle-aged man who studied classical piano intensely in my youth and into my 20s. It was grueling at times and my piano teacher once said after struggling with a Beethoven Sonata, “If you want to do something easy, go into brain surgery.” Not until I reached the age of 20, after having spent 8 years learning the piano, did the greatness and true “art” of the music begin to dawn on me. Ii specifically remember hearing the second movement of Bach’s Double Violin Concerto during a PBS TV celebration of his 300th birthday and the solemnity and pathos of the work hit me like a ton of bricks.
    And speaking of Bach, in my humble opinion, his music dwarfs even that of Ludwig Van. His mastery of the highest contrapuntal art combined with the utmost Divine inspiration makes his works treasures for the heavens.

  16. John
    John says:

    This is yet again more evidence that all this anti-European, aka anti-White, would not b happening if we had stayed European or White. Therefore, we have no choice but to take back our homelands or else we will b destroyed. This hatred of us is non-stop & escalating while we r still the majority. Article “The Slow Cleanse” aka “Restoring White Homelands” by Greg Johnson explains how we can take back our future.

  17. Chilled Bee
    Chilled Bee says:

    Had these reviews of Beethoven been written 50 years ago the reviewers would have been frog marched to the nearest shrink.
    White people are the only humans left alive who are lambasted for praising fellow Whites. I have a feeling that this will change.

  18. Rerevisionist
    Rerevisionist says:

    May I just point out a rather simple thing, which is that white geniuses are a tiny minority of whites. People who say ‘everyone [in some field] was white’ is in danger of ignoring the fact that vast numbers of whites were not geniuses.

    • Ned J. Casper
      Ned J. Casper says:

      There are several variable factors in the decline and downfall of nations and civilizations, but one most important cause in many cases is the comparative deterioration in intellectual ability and creativity. The literature on this is substantial; search online for relevant authors; e.g. Edward Dutton, Jim Penman, Elmer Pendell, Raymond Cattell, Michael A. Woodley David Tribe, &c. Of course, high IQ does not guarantee the moral or political action necessary to secure the restoration of a “high culture”. A sad feature is the celebrated determination of highly intelligent white women to refuse to breed like kind because of a world increasingly threatened by the environmental impact of the feckless breeding of backward non-white women, albeit at the hands of sexually unrestrained men. See also pp.514-524 of “The End of Racism” [!!] (1995) by Dinesh D’Souza.

    • Karlfried
      Karlfried says:

      Hello Rerevisonist, I agree with your statement. In nature it is not important, if you are smart in sophisticated areas. Instead of this, it is important, that you have children. Therefore the Turks in Germany, who maybe (=just for the sake of the argument) have little positive attributes, have much more children than the Germans in Germany. And this thing alone brings the Turks in Germany (at the time to be = at present time) onto the winner street and the Germans down to hell.
      Life is very simple to explain, the aim of life is to survive as a group, folk, race. All other things combined have lesser weight than survival. Survival is the above-everthing-else duty of all white folks. … Closing remark: I like your web-site.

  19. Todd Hupp
    Todd Hupp says:

    The current USA pop “rap” music resembles African tribal music-past and current.Classical music was/is a product of white Christian Europe.African culture is represented in the modern Western music scene,

  20. Eric
    Eric says:

    The affirmative action musicologist is upset that Beethoven represents White supremacy.

    Why be upset by an indisputable fact — that Whites are superior and therefore supreme in virtually every field of endeavor?

    If you don’t like it, fine, but that’s not a valid basis for criticizing Whites, much less Beethoven.

    Ewell is not qualified to be a musicologist because he cannot acknowledge what is musically superior and appropriately humble himself before it.

    Ewell hopes that Whites will apologize for being better and help him to bury the civilization Whites created — the civilization that blacks depend on because (like Jews who promote them) they are parasites incapable of creating civilizations of their own.

  21. Ned J. Casper
    Ned J. Casper says:

    Reply to Pierre de Craon le Petit: Ashton (his real name) attacked falsely on TOO as an Israeli troll &c – I expect there are indeed a few of those who want to discredit websites with crazy comments or criminal incitements – and equally falsely by the “Daily Mail” as a lifelong Jew-hating neo-nazi was a good example of untrue insult replacing intellectual honesty. Leon de Poncins’ chief merit in my eyes was to publish important documents or extracts otherwise hidden from public consideration; he made a few slips, such as describing Engels as a Jew. Happy is he who does ENOUGH research (atttrib. Euripides). Thank you all the same, and best wishes to all men, and women, of good will, yes even some of (((those))).

    • Pierre de Craon
      Pierre de Craon says:

      I’ve been called many things in my life but never before “le Petit.” But if it floats your boat …

      I think you know full well that I was not one of those who ever called Ashton an Israeli troll. I did think that he was tiresomely self-referential, unreflectively Christophobic, and frequently patronizing—and no, I don’t consider those to be terms of approval. Even so, if “Israeli troll” were the worst slur ever directed at me, I’d think of myself as having had a pretty easy ride through this rough-and-tumble world.

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